The Hotel End

The Hotel End => Other Football & Sport => Topic started by: cotton cobbler on January 05, 2015, 12:39:53 pm



Title: Ched Evans
Post by: cotton cobbler on January 05, 2015, 12:39:53 pm
How would you guys feel if we signed ched evans? I hear Oldham have possibly pulled out of signing him due to uproar from sponsors etc


Title: Re: Possible signings during January 2015
Post by: Ryan Amoo 14 on January 05, 2015, 12:50:30 pm
How would you guys feel if we signed ched evans? I hear Oldham have possibly pulled out of signing him due to uproar from sponsors etc

That question is probably going to lead to a 'discussion' which will have to be locked and deleted by moderators within about 15 minutes.


Title: Re: Possible signings during January 2015
Post by: Deepcut Cobbler on January 05, 2015, 12:57:17 pm
That question is probably going to lead to a 'discussion' which will have to be locked and deleted by moderators within about 15 minutes.

Try initiating a thread in Other Football and we will see how it goes?
We are all capable of grown up discussion, which is encouraged, whether it would be achieved is another question.


Title: Re: Possible signings during January 2015
Post by: MK_Cobbler on January 05, 2015, 13:13:15 pm
How would you guys feel if we signed ched evans? I hear Oldham have possibly pulled out of signing him due to uproar from sponsors etc

He was found guilty of the crime by the courts and has served the punishment handed to him.

I think he should be given an opportunity to move on and get his career back on track.


Title: Re: Possible signings during January 2015
Post by: TbananaG on January 05, 2015, 13:20:30 pm
I think he should wait a few more months until his conviction has been reviewed - if it turns out then that he is no longer a convicted rapist, then there won't be a problem for anyone to employ him. In the meantime, all he really seems to be achieving is building up resistance.


Title: Re: Possible signings during January 2015
Post by: bri77 on January 05, 2015, 13:31:17 pm
When you look at sponsors of other clubs that have threatened to remove their sponsorship I can't see the university not getting involved if we were to look at him.


Title: Re: Possible signings during January 2015
Post by: John on January 05, 2015, 13:34:02 pm
The problem appears to be that he is accused of showing no remorse or sympathy for his victim but as he believes he is totally innocent I can understand that, imagine losing your job and going to prison just on the word of someone who may have initially consented but thought better of it later. I obviously have no idea if that is the case or not or whether he is innocent or not but with alleged rape it is often the case of one persons word against the other.

Putting that to one side, he was found guilty, has served his punishment and in my opinion should now be allowed to get on with his life.

It amazes me that Oldham average gate is around 4,000 but as of 8am this morning 20,000 people have signed a petition against "their club" signing him. Just who are these people?

Rape? If half a dozen men drag a girl into a field and all have sex with her, that's an easy guilty verdict. But a man having sex with a woman who initially said no? Show me a married man, I'll show you a rapist under those terms.


Title: Re: Possible signings during January 2015
Post by: MK_Cobbler on January 05, 2015, 15:15:41 pm
The review should be an interesting one.

I cannot really comment as I don’t know the full ins and outs of the case… however, from what I gather/have read the girl awoke in a strange hotel room with an extremely blurred  memory not knowing what had happened.

It was word against word, the guilty party has served his comeuppance as instructed by the court and should be free to continue his everyday business. The backlash being received should be directed at the courts for not serving a sufficient sentence. 

His profession should not dictate his direction after his punishment has been served. 


Title: Re: Possible signings during January 2015
Post by: Ryan Amoo 14 on January 05, 2015, 15:18:55 pm
But a man having sex with a woman who initially said no? Show me a married man, I'll show you a rapist under those terms.

?


Title: Re: Possible signings during January 2015
Post by: southofthecounty on January 05, 2015, 15:42:43 pm
The problem appears to be that he is accused of showing no remorse or sympathy for his victim but as he believes he is totally innocent I can understand that, imagine losing your job and going to prison just on the word of someone who may have initially consented but thought better of it later.
Or after sobering up.


Title: Re: Possible signings during January 2015
Post by: everbrite on January 05, 2015, 16:11:51 pm
He was found guilty of the crime by the courts and has served the punishment handed to him.

I think he should be given an opportunity to move on and get his career back on track.

Agreed - he has served his court sentence. The shrill outbursts from various Woman Associations seems more like persecution; thought Christmas was all about love and forgiveness. :(


Title: Re: Possible signings during January 2015
Post by: TbananaG on January 05, 2015, 16:39:45 pm
The Evans case is a difficult one because, if you read about the details of the case and his side of the story, it really is quite difficult to see the conviction as a reliable one, and that's not to minimise in any way the severity of the crime of rape.

If he sincerely believes that he is innocent, then I think he should let the legal process take its course and the conviction is currently under review and will be complete in no more than six or seven months. It is possible that he could start next season at a club and with a clean record after that review. At the moment, it just seems that he's antagonising more and more people by trying to get a job before the conviction has been reviewed.

That said, serving your time never means that you get your life back exactly as it was before - it just means that you get the chance to try to start again. A convicted rapist would never work again as a doctor, teacher, journalist etc etc....and I do get the argument that that should apply to a footballer as well.


Title: Re: Possible signings during January 2015
Post by: JollyCobbler on January 05, 2015, 17:06:38 pm
The problem appears to be that he is accused of showing no remorse or sympathy for his victim but as he believes he is totally innocent I can understand that, imagine losing your job and going to prison just on the word of someone who may have initially consented but thought better of it later. I obviously have no idea if that is the case or not or whether he is innocent or not but with alleged rape it is often the case of one persons word against the other.

Putting that to one side, he was found guilty, has served his punishment and in my opinion should now be allowed to get on with his life.

It amazes me that Oldham average gate is around 4,000 but as of 8am this morning 20,000 people have signed a petition against "their club" signing him. Just who are these people?

Rape? If half a dozen men drag a girl into a field and all have sex with her, that's an easy guilty verdict. But a man having sex with a woman who initially said no? Show me a married man, I'll show you a rapist under those terms.

I think he is showing no remorse because a; the girl begged (as witnessed by a taxi driver) for Evans mate to ring him as 'it'll be fun' b; His mates, who thought it would be hilarious to sneak round a side window and secretly film 'the sex', provided the police with footage which (allegedly) shows the girl insisting he go down on her.
You insist on going to a hotel room, at 3;30 in the morning, with two blokes you've never met before, and insist that one of them gives you head. But it's a step too far if he puts his sausage in you?
Rape is a terrible crime. But being drunk does not mean you are incapable of giving consent, otherwise most of the men in this country would have been in the dock at one time or another.


Title: Ched Evans
Post by: Cobbler1991 on January 05, 2015, 17:09:35 pm
If talks with Oldham break down which there is a 50:50 chance of doing so in my opinion, would Ched Evans be desperate to lower the bar a bit and give League Two a go? I have a feeling that if Toney goes this window, there is no way you will be able to build a strike partnership around Richards and Sinclair as the latter seems about as useful as a chocolate fireman at the moment. Of course this entirely depends on Evans being desperate enough to come to an average League 2 club, the board wanting to sign him, the team being ok with it and potential backlash from fans and sponsors.

Probably one of my more fanciful thoughts but it kept coming up in my mind today when I kept losing concentration at work.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: The 12th Marquis of Sixfields on January 05, 2015, 17:15:43 pm
Evans being desperate enough?

We'd have to be desperate enough. Not for me. Never.


Title: Re: Possible signings during January 2015
Post by: Dr Feelgood on January 05, 2015, 17:16:10 pm
If the guy came back apologised and said it was a mistake then fair enough but if he shows no remorse then he can jog on.


Title: Re: Possible signings during January 2015
Post by: AidyMannsDog on January 05, 2015, 18:14:01 pm
When you look at sponsors of other clubs that have threatened to remove their sponsorship I can't see the university not getting involved if we were to look at him.

Could replace them with Stella Artois?


Title: Re: Possible signings during January 2015
Post by: Wolvo on January 05, 2015, 18:25:33 pm
I think he is showing no remorse because a; the girl begged (as witnessed by a taxi driver) for Evans mate to ring him as 'it'll be fun' b; His mates, who thought it would be hilarious to sneak round a side window and secretly film 'the sex', provided the police with footage which (allegedly) shows the girl insisting he go down on her.
You insist on going to a hotel room, at 3;30 in the morning, with two blokes you've never met before, and insist that one of them gives you head. But it's a step too far if he puts his sausage in you?
Rape is a terrible crime. But being drunk does not mean you are incapable of giving consent, otherwise most of the men in this country would have been in the dock at one time or another.

You have the exact same views as myself. Rape is obviously disgusting, but I felt Ched was extremely harshly done by. I'd personally like to see him partner Rico up top...

But with that being said, you have to be mindful of our sponsors; especially with the redevelopment and for those reasons we'd have to steer well clear. Unless the review proves successful for Ched, in which case he'd never consider the Cobblers anyways!!


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: bri77 on January 05, 2015, 18:33:27 pm
Am I alone in sobering what there is a lot more fuss over this rape case than the death of an 8yr old and 10yr old through drink driving by McCormick or the killed through an accident and then leaving the scene by Hughes. Why was there not as much controversy when they resumed their careers?


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: The 12th Marquis of Sixfields on January 05, 2015, 18:36:25 pm
There was.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: Wolvo on January 05, 2015, 18:40:29 pm
Am I alone in sobering what there is a lot more fuss over this rape case than the death of an 8yr old and 10yr old through drink driving by McCormick or the killed through an accident and then leaving the scene by Hughes. Why was there not as much controversy when they resumed their careers?

I think an increase in social media since Lee Hughes has helped make the Evans case more controversial. As highlighted above, the amount of people signing petitions to stop clubs signing him is ridiculous.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: GrangeParkCobbler on January 05, 2015, 19:25:59 pm
There was.

Was there? I take the Hughes case as being before the social media explosion but the McCormick case wasn't that long ago, and I certainly can't remember petitions, sponsors threatening to pull out, famous celebrities threatening to withdraw their patronage......seems this has been blown up much more than perhaps it should have been. As per the explanation above Evans has always protested his innocence and continues to do so.....it's not like he can change and show remorse now as that would make him look like he's been lying all this time. He's served his sentence and IMO he deserves the chance to resume his career somewhere.



Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: MK_Cobbler on January 05, 2015, 19:38:27 pm
I wonder how many of these 20,000 are football and Oldham fans. Have there been any counter petitions?

Seems to me a load of folk from the WI are pitching in.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: DrillingCobbler on January 05, 2015, 20:16:46 pm
I don't think he's guilty, the woman tweeted about making it big and taking all her mates on holiday being just one example of why I have zero respect for her and don't believe a word she says. But most of this telling evidence wasn't allowed to be used as evidence...

As a fan would I like him here? Yes.

As a chairman would I sanction the signing? A definite no.

Too much baggage, too many people against it. Would split the support base. I just hope that he wins his appeal and can make all those who casually call him a rapist look rather silly.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: The 12th Marquis of Sixfields on January 05, 2015, 20:27:43 pm
A court listened to the evidence and then decided he was guilty. Whether you like it or not they heard all of the evidence, you didn't. If they say he's guilty then he's guilty. So going by your logic, you saying he isn't a rapist make you look rather silly.


Title: Re: Possible signings during January 2015
Post by: phil on January 05, 2015, 20:29:29 pm
The Evans case is a difficult one because, if you read about the details of the case and his side of the story, it really is quite difficult to see the conviction as a reliable one, and that's not to minimise in any way the severity of the crime of rape.

If he sincerely believes that he is innocent, then I think he should let the legal process take its course and the conviction is currently under review and will be complete in no more than six or seven months. It is possible that he could start next season at a club and with a clean record after that review. At the moment, it just seems that he's antagonising more and more people by trying to get a job before the conviction has been reviewed.

That said, serving your time never means that you get your life back exactly as it was before - it just means that you get the chance to try to start again. A convicted rapist would never work again as a doctor, teacher, journalist etc etc....and I do get the argument that that should apply to a footballer as well.

So what job can he do then?.


Title: Re: Possible signings during January 2015
Post by: TbananaG on January 05, 2015, 20:36:38 pm
So what job can he do then?.

Any job where the employer is happy to employ a convicted rapist. It's nobody else's responsibility to save him from the consequences of his actions.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: Dan on January 05, 2015, 20:48:40 pm
The club wouldn't see another penny from me whilst he was on the payroll if we signed him. The only true role of a lower league football club is to provide enjoyment for the community. Signing someone like Ched Evans would suggest that the only thing important is scoring goals, not the fans, or any females associated to the club.

At the end of the day, a court listened to all of the evidence and came to the conclusion that he was guilty.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: DrillingCobbler on January 05, 2015, 20:52:18 pm
A court listened to the evidence and then decided he was guilty. Whether you like it or not they heard all of the evidence, you didn't. If they say he's guilty then he's guilty. So going by your logic, you saying he isn't a rapist make you look rather silly.

Back in the day I followed this case a lot and read up an awful lot about it. There was a lot of 'evidence' that was deemed inappropriate to be used by the judge. So the jury didnt hear all of the evidence.

I firmly believe that he will be acquitted in his appeal. The jury had little choice but to find him guilty given the argument that she was too drunk to consent. That was what it was all centred on.

The main  issue people seem to have now is that he has not said sorry. Yet it seems that it matters not how many people make the point that he is hardly going to apologise for something he firmly denies doing.

We shall see what happens with the appeal. But whichever way you look at this case it isn't cut and dry and far from it. He's been very harshly treated in my opinion whilst the word of the 'victim' has been taken as gospel. For some reason.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: DrillingCobbler on January 05, 2015, 20:56:04 pm
The club wouldn't see another penny from me whilst he was on the payroll if we signed him. The only true role of a lower league football club is to provide enjoyment for the community. Signing someone like Ched Evans would suggest that the only thing important is scoring goals, not the fans, or any females associated to the club.

At the end of the day, a court listened to all of the evidence and came to the conclusion that he was guilty.

I always held (and still do) that view with Hughes. Can't stand the bloke. I think on this occasion people are either believing him or believing the girl. I believe him. If I thought he had done it I would hold exactly the same view as yourself.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: Razor on January 05, 2015, 21:02:26 pm
The facts are he was found guilty in court, served some time in prison and the decision is now being appealed.

I have no idea what actually happened just like everyone else on here.

What I do know is that trial by social media is a very dangerous thing indeed.

Hopefully the appeal process will help provide some kind of closure to the issue either way.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: Ryan Amoo 14 on January 05, 2015, 21:05:19 pm
This is the thread that made me stop posting on The Hotel End.

Absolutely appalling.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: TbananaG on January 05, 2015, 21:06:03 pm
We shall see what happens with the appeal. But whichever way you look at this case it isn't cut and dry and far from it. He's been very harshly treated in my opinion whilst the word of the 'victim' has been taken as gospel. For some reason.

I'm not sure that's right though is it? As I understand it, she doesn't claim to have any recollection of what happened, and Evans was convicted and McDonald acquitted effectively on the basis of their own evidence of what happened - they were interviewed separately and their stories match, so suggests they weren't trying to hide anything. As you say, it's not cut and dried - I really think he should just go quiet until the review of the conviction has been completed. He can then start again with football if he's cleared.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: bri77 on January 05, 2015, 21:07:34 pm
Why is this thread appalling? I'm sure it's fairly similar to many discussions centred on Evans up and down the country.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: Air-Dan on January 05, 2015, 21:12:01 pm
Evans being desperate enough?

We'd have to be desperate enough. Not for me. Never.

+1


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: Clint on January 05, 2015, 21:18:19 pm
A court listened to the evidence and then decided he was guilty. Whether you like it or not they heard all of the evidence, you didn't. If they say he's guilty then he's guilty. So going by your logic, you saying he isn't a rapist make you look rather silly.
Quite.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: Deepcut Cobbler on January 05, 2015, 21:28:40 pm
This is the thread that made me stop posting on The Hotel End.

Absolutely appalling.

Why?


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: DrillingCobbler on January 05, 2015, 21:31:58 pm
I'm not sure that's right though is it? As I understand it, she doesn't claim to have any recollection of what happened, and Evans was convicted and McDonald acquitted effectively on the basis of their own evidence of what happened - they were interviewed separately and their stories match, so suggests they weren't trying to hide anything. As you say, it's not cut and dried - I really think he should just go quiet until the review of the conviction has been completed. He can then start again with football if he's cleared.

You are right when you say that he should go quiet, it's clear that even if a Sunday league team suggested signing him there would be a huge petition against it and said club would have it's name dragged in the mud!

What I haven't seen though is one single person who is so anti the guy accept that it isn't cut and dry and there must be doubt involved. Or acknowledge why the appeal is being fast tracked.

I've acknowledged that as a club we shouldn't consider signing him. For the reasons stated...and whilst there is doubt involved. I just do no believe that he was given a fair trial. I also happen to believe he's a complete idiot for getting involved in the first place but that's for another discussion!


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: defender on January 05, 2015, 21:44:03 pm

 he was found guilty and he has paid for it, nuff said!


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: JollyCobbler on January 05, 2015, 22:03:21 pm
I'm not sure that's right though is it? As I understand it, she doesn't claim to have any recollection of what happened, and Evans was convicted and McDonald acquitted effectively on the basis of their own evidence of what happened - they were interviewed separately and their stories match, so suggests they weren't trying to hide anything. As you say, it's not cut and dried - I really think he should just go quiet until the review of the conviction has been completed. He can then start again with football if he's cleared.

Yes, and even the prosecution barrister accepted there was considerable doubt as to whether she was being honest in her proclamation of 'loss of memory'.
If you read the case papers which were leaked online, then he was basically found guilty because the judge messed up. This is one of the main grounds for appeal. In his summing up the judge said - words to the effect of - "The accused claims that their sexual liaison was consensual, and It is obvious this young woman was intoxicated, and was also a heavy user, and under the influence of both cannabis and cocaine. There is also no doubt that this young man had sex with a woman he knew to be drunk."

But, apparently, what he should have said/made clear was: "The accused claims that their sexual liaison was consensual, and It is obvious this young woman was intoxicated, and was also a heavy user, and under the influence of both cannabis and cocaine. There is also no doubt that this young man had sex with a woman he knew to be drunk. But, just because an individual is intoxicated, does not automatically mean they are incapable of giving consent."

I think if this last bit had been added, then the jury may likely have viewed things differently. :-\


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: Manwork04 on January 05, 2015, 22:09:46 pm
This is the thread that made me stop posting on The Hotel End.

Absolutely appalling.

 ;D bye


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: A view from the east on January 05, 2015, 22:12:58 pm
Should this thread even be in Cobblers Corner ?
Just asking like.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: bri77 on January 05, 2015, 23:58:49 pm
It's topical to many teams and their fans. If not Oldham who knows which club will be linked with him next. It could be us.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: TerryAngusIsALegend on January 06, 2015, 00:07:03 am
If his appeal is successful, maybe. As it stands he can fcuk right off, would bring shame to our club and probably put a lot of people off attending. Who's gonna bring their daughter to a game to cheer on a team where the star striker's a convicted rapist? Not worth it.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: BackOfTheNet on January 06, 2015, 06:34:26 am
It's a difficult one. Rape is a reprehensible crime and once someone has been convicted of it I have no time for them and would struggle to come to terms with cheering them on if they played for us. The more you read about this case though the more dubious the conviction sounds.
Considering it is essentially one person's word against another, and one of those people was so out of it on drink and drugs they have no recollection of events it's very difficult to see how the court can find in favour of that person's version of events.
This is especially true when you include the comments overheard by the taxi driver and the mobile phone footage. Sure, these don't prove that a rape did or didn't occur later in the evening, but they do suggest that earlier in the evening she was consentual to some acts. Of course, that doesn't mean she consented to anything else, but it does cast doubt.

And therein lies the reason why I think his conviction will be overturned; I really can't see how, in the absence of physical evidence, a jury can reach a verdict that is beyond reasonable doubt. Being entirely objective about it, while events in that room were almost certainly rather unsavoury, it's pretty much impossible to prove either way.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: guest49 on January 06, 2015, 08:08:29 am


And therein lies the reason why I think his conviction will be overturned; I really can't see how, in the absence of physical evidence, a jury can reach a verdict that is beyond reasonable doubt. Being entirely objective about it, while events in that room were almost certainly rather unsavoury, it's pretty much impossible to prove either way.

But that is the basis of many rape/child abuse cases, one word against the other. Depends on the judge and if he wants a unanimous of majority verdict. I sat on the jury of an historical abuse case and the judge settled for a 10/2 guilty verdict, after initially wanting a unanimous one. You're not going to be dealing with a lot of physical evidence. I also know a case of someone doing jury service, when several jurors quickly settled on a decision as the judge stopped their smoke breaks! So it's hardly a watertight process but it's the law of the land.
Having said that there appears to be a lot of evidence in this case which may not all have been used.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: TbananaG on January 06, 2015, 09:48:15 am
Considering it is essentially one person's word against another....

I'm not sure it's even that: my understanding is that the victim doesn't claim to have any recollection of the events in the hotel room and that Evans was convicted (and McDonald acquitted) effectively on the basis of their own evidence....and that there is no forensic evidence so that they could simply have walked away if they had said nothing at all. Of course, you could argue that if they have effectively described a rape but don't perceive it as such, then all the more reason that Evans should be removed from society for a spell to get a different perspective on his actions.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: John on January 06, 2015, 10:55:09 am
In all honesty I think there should be a differential between "Rape" and perhaps a lesser charge of sexual assault. Then if you meet a girl at an event, you both have a few too many drinks, end up in bed, then in the morning realise you've both made a big mistake, you wont then be open to the highly emotional charge of RAPE!


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: southofthecounty on January 06, 2015, 11:25:19 am
In all honesty I think there should be a differential between "Rape" and perhaps a lesser charge of sexual assault. Then if you meet a girl at an event, you both have a few too many drinks, end up in bed, then in the morning realise you've both made a big mistake, you wont then be open to the highly emotional charge of RAPE!
If I was faced with a couple of years in prison for a drunken shag, I'd be emotional too.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: MCHammer on January 06, 2015, 11:32:45 am
In all honesty I think there should be a differential between "Rape" and perhaps a lesser charge of sexual assault. Then if you meet a girl at an event, you both have a few too many drinks, end up in bed, then in the morning realise you've both made a big mistake, you wont then be open to the highly emotional charge of RAPE!

There is a clear differential already and I think it's pretty clear what Rape is.  Sexual Assault is an umbrella term that covers rape among other things.  You can be charged with "lesser" sexual assault offences.

Part of the problem is a lot of people, men specifically, either don't understand or want to accept that rape isn't always a violent crime.  The attitude has to change where you accept that if the person you are having sex with is incapable, unwilling or unable to consent for whatever reason you are committing rape.

I also think people don't realise just how difficult it is to prove that in a court of law anyway when it is one word against another.  Remember in this country whether you believe it or not you have to be proved guilty not innocent.

Re Ched Evans is clearly a difficult case made more confusing by one person being found innocent while the other guilty.  However he was tried in a court of law and found guilty.  He was also denied leave to appeal.  I don't like hearing people throw "evidence" around that wasn't used in court as there is always a reason it wasn't used in court and that is usually a very good reason.  I also think that most of what people know about the case will have come with a bias to one side or the other.

I wouldn't want him at my club and it doesn't appear he has learnt much from the whole ordeal other than not to cheat on his girlfriend.  Whether you like it or not footballers are role models to people especially youngsters.  


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: clarkeysntfc on January 06, 2015, 11:45:49 am
The facts are he was found guilty in court, served some time in prison and the decision is now being appealed.

I have no idea what actually happened just like everyone else on here.

What I do know is that trial by social media is a very dangerous thing indeed.

Hopefully the appeal process will help provide some kind of closure to the issue either way.

Completely agree with this.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: DrillingCobbler on January 06, 2015, 11:48:36 am
In all honesty I think there should be a differential between "Rape" and perhaps a lesser charge of sexual assault. Then if you meet a girl at an event, you both have a few too many drinks, end up in bed, then in the morning realise you've both made a big mistake, you wont then be open to the highly emotional charge of RAPE!

When I was younger and before meeting Mrs Drilling Cobbler I was raped on many occasions. I know this because of the amount of fat munters I woke up next to after a night out and having had no recollection of how they got there.

NOW. For the benefit of others. I am not making a joke of what is a very serious crime. However I am in full agreement with Marvo. The basis of rape should be re-defined for the benefit of society. Whether you agree with the law as it is at present or not is immaterial. BUT being given drunken consent could well end up with any bloke, married or not...being charged with and being labelled a rapist. Naturally, the chances of this happening to a famous person are far higher for obvious reasons if they end up with the wrong 'lady'.

Whether or not this happened in this case is open to debate but I would say, taking a look at the facts of the case etc and reading every angle of it online (from basic Sheff UTD football fans to Women Lib leaders) then the general consensus of those who believe Ched Evans to be a rapist are those who consider drunken consent to be NO CONSENT. Unfortunately there isn't a 'legal limit' like there is in driving so hopefully you will get my drift.

The most telling point of this was how the other guy got found not guilty, given that the 'victim' supposedly couldn't remember a thing. So how did the jury/judge come to that conclusion?

It is a very very dangerous assumption to make, and if push came to shove I would guess that the jury (who couldn't initially come to a unanimous verdict) ended up 'guessing' after 3 weeks of jury service. The judge did not request a majority ruling from them in this case.

So for those who are totally scathing of the bloke, perhaps you should read up a little about the case yourselves (not media related articles) and then make a judgement. Because at the very least it will put doubt in your mind. And for that, awaiting the outcome of the appeal may be a sensible thing to do. *

* note that I have not at all gone down the line of he's done his crime, served his crime argument like many of those who say he should be able to resume his career have done. If he is proved to be a rapist then football should not welcome him back in my opinion. I said the same about Hughes and the Plymouth (now Oxford) keeper. 'I just do not believe that he is guilty of it'....


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: Iest_ntfc on January 06, 2015, 12:10:57 pm
I wouldn't want him at my club and it doesn't appear he has learnt much from the whole ordeal other than not to cheat on his girlfriend.  Whether you like it or not footballers are role models to people especially youngsters.  
[/quote

So should all convicted criminals be banned from playing football? Clarke Carsile is a convicted drink driver who it would seem didn't learn from his conviction and could easily have killed someone like hughes and McCormick did. Lee Collins played for our club whilst wearing a tag for assault. This case has now turned into a media witch hunt, Ched needs to go away and fight his case only then will he be given a chance or run out of the country.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: HallamCobbler on January 06, 2015, 12:25:23 pm
I think the fact he hasn't shown remorse at all hasn't helped. The media has jumped on that and it would make it hard to rejoin a football club.

Should he be allowed to? Sure, if he can find one that would take him. It's not about his right to return to work, if signing him will mean losing sponsors because they don't want to associate with such a high-profile case then it becomes a financial decision.

I can understand not showing remorse if he feels the verdict is incorrect, and if thats the case he needs to appeal and probably wait for the decision. Otherwise he's free to work in McDonalds if they'll have him.

If the crime was that bad how come he is out after 2.5 years.... I find that ridiculously contradictory.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: MCHammer on January 06, 2015, 12:48:53 pm
So should all convicted criminals be banned from playing football? Clarke Carsile is a convicted drink driver who it would seem didn't learn from his conviction and could easily have killed someone like hughes and McCormick did. Lee Collins played for our club whilst wearing a tag for assault. This case has now turned into a media witch hunt, Ched needs to go away and fight his case only then will he be given a chance or run out of the country.

No I don't believe that and never said that.  It's a case of what rehabilitation that individual has had and how willing they are to admit their mistakes and make a real effort to right their wrongs.  If a TV personality was found guilty of rape would they be able or expect to just walk back into a top role in their industry.  That's the reality.  Any criminal conviction carries with it the risk that it could harm or end certain career paths.

The simple question is, would I want a convicted rapist to represent the team I support and the simple answer for me is no.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: coboz on January 06, 2015, 12:59:15 pm
Why would it be OK for a convicted rapist to work in McDonalds?  Are the young girls who work in McDonalds worth less than any other women? I'm not making any judgements on Evans - just wondering how one job is ok and another one isn't.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: Charlatan on January 06, 2015, 13:05:15 pm
Should this thread even be in Cobblers Corner ?
Just asking like.
[/quote
+1. It currently has nothing to do with The Cobblers.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: MCHammer on January 06, 2015, 13:07:27 pm
When I was younger and before meeting Mrs Drilling Cobbler I was raped on many occasions. I know this because of the amount of fat munters I woke up next to after a night out and having had no recollection of how they got there.

NOW. For the benefit of others. I am not making a joke of what is a very serious crime. However I am in full agreement with Marvo. The basis of rape should be re-defined for the benefit of society. Whether you agree with the law as it is at present or not is immaterial. BUT being given drunken consent could well end up with any bloke, married or not...being charged with and being labelled a rapist. Naturally, the chances of this happening to a famous person are far higher for obvious reasons if they end up with the wrong 'lady'.

Whether you meant to make or joke or not you clearly have made it one which is a shame.

What do you want it redefined to? Perhaps it's not the definition that's the problem it's your acceptance or understanding of the current one that needs to change?

The problem is we focus on this one case but ignore the thousands that don't even get to court or or are found not guilty through a lack of evidence.  From my experience the general public have a very unrealistic perception of how easy it is to a) even get to court and then b) obtain successful convictions for matters as complex and difficult as this.  As I said previously you have to be proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt.  Think about what that means.  The prosecution have to prove a rape has taken place.  If it comes down to simply word against word think how difficult that is to prove.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: The 12th Marquis of Sixfields on January 06, 2015, 13:25:13 pm
Why would it be OK for a convicted rapist to work in McDonalds?  Are the young girls who work in McDonalds worth less than any other women? I'm not making any judgements on Evans - just wondering how one job is ok and another one isn't.
staff at McDonald's are not hero worshippedlike footballers  are. Like it or not but footballers are role models for kids. They see and hear what Evans did and they think it's ok to behave like that .


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: GrangeParkCobbler on January 06, 2015, 15:32:38 pm
According to Sky Sports we are one of only 4 league two clubs to say we definitely wouldn't be signing him....along with Luton, Hartlepool and York. Most 'declined to comment'


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: HallamCobbler on January 06, 2015, 15:37:58 pm
It's the fact he still doesn't believe he's done anything wrong, and yet he's a convicted rapist.

How he can be out on good behaviour is beyond me, since he believes his behaviour before prison was acceptable he clearly hasn't progressed to a point where he should be allowed out.

All that would change if his appeal is upheld, but until then he is a rapist who shows no remorse for his actions and thats the issue any employer will/should have.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: everbrite on January 06, 2015, 15:42:28 pm


I wouldn't want him at my club and it doesn't appear he has learnt much from the whole ordeal other than not to cheat on his girlfriend.  Whether you like it or not footballers are role models to people especially youngsters.  

Thank you for this bit Hammer.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: HallamCobbler on January 06, 2015, 15:46:08 pm
His girlfriends an idiot as well.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: everbrite on January 06, 2015, 15:49:24 pm
His girlfriends an idiot as well.
Why?


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: TbananaG on January 06, 2015, 15:49:42 pm
His girlfriends an idiot as well.

Idiot may be a bit harsh. She's just trying to cling on to the reality that she thought she had rather than the one she really has.....which we all do at times.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: HallamCobbler on January 06, 2015, 15:57:22 pm
She's brought so much publicity to this by going on interviews, creating a website that basically condemns the victim and numerous radio interviews that she made it perfectly clear that he doesn't have any remorse.
If she'd of said nothing and brought this all up in a formal matter or appeal instead of making it such a huge issue the media coverage, and therefore public opinion may not have been so high that Ched could of got a club at a lower league without as much uproar.

Also, the fact she's clinging onto a man who clearly had no respect for her. And I can't believe this is the first time him and his mate have done something like this. He's just pissed off he got caught. But hey, thats just my opinion.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: everbrite on January 06, 2015, 16:05:17 pm
She's brought so much publicity to this by going on interviews, creating a website that basically condemns the victim and numerous radio interviews that she made it perfectly clear that he doesn't have any remorse.
If she'd of said nothing and brought this all up in a formal matter or appeal instead of making it such a huge issue the media coverage, and therefore public opinion may not have been so high that Ched could of got a club at a lower league without as much uproar.

Also, the fact she's clinging onto a man who clearly had no respect for her. And I can't believe this is the first time him and his mate have done something like this. He's just ****ed off he got caught. But hey, thats just my opinion.

difficult one that Hallam, women can be so forcefully loyal - Boudicca, QE1, Livia, Calpurnia, Mrs Murray etc


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: HallamCobbler on January 06, 2015, 17:02:55 pm
difficult one that Hallam, women can be so forcefully loyal - Boudicca, QE1, Livia, Calpurnia, Mrs Murray etc

I guess your right. It's not her fault and she deals in her own way.

I can't see the situation changing unless he accepts responsibility for his actions or wins appeal  I certainly wouldn't welcome him here as it stands.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: Air-Dan on January 06, 2015, 17:53:58 pm
"Northampton Town: We haven't been offered the opportunity to sign or give a trial to Ched Evans. It is not something the club have considered."

Source BBC - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30698618


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: John on January 06, 2015, 19:14:48 pm
I'm sorry Hallam but if he honestly believes he is innocent and she was a willing partner, why would he show any remorse? In his eyes, he's just done 30 months in prison for a crime he didn't commit, I bet he tells he's he victim here.

Also anybody who believes there are no, nor has there ever been an innocent man in prison is an idiot. Think about it, would we even have the term miscarriage of justice.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: DrillingCobbler on January 06, 2015, 19:55:37 pm
Whether you meant to make or joke or not you clearly have made it one which is a shame.

What do you want it redefined to? Perhaps it's not the definition that's the problem it's your acceptance or understanding of the current one that needs to change?

The problem is we focus on this one case but ignore the thousands that don't even get to court or or are found not guilty through a lack of evidence.  From my experience the general public have a very unrealistic perception of how easy it is to a) even get to court and then b) obtain successful convictions for matters as complex and difficult as this.  As I said previously you have to be proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt.  Think about what that means.  The prosecution have to prove a rape has taken place.  If it comes down to simply word against word think how difficult that is to prove.

I was being ironic. I made that point pretty strongly at the start of the 2nd paragraph.

You and many others have glazed over the point I was making (and indeed Marvo).

IF she cannot remember how she ended up there let alone remember giving consent then how could the bloke be expected (whilst drunk) to know that at the time?

It's very grey area. Which is why 'rape' should be Defined for the masses. Make it clear that if as a bloke you have sex with a drunken woman over a certain level of influence and it's then clear. At the moment cases like this (and others that do not get to court) are a complete lottery.

Trust in the law is all well and good but if the law needs correcting then it should be. And in the case of drunken sex romps it clearly needs to be.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: HallamCobbler on January 06, 2015, 20:06:43 pm
I'm sorry Hallam but if he honestly believes he is innocent and she was a willing partner, why would he show any remorse? In his eyes, he's just done 30 months in prison for a crime he didn't commit, I bet he tells he's he victim here.

Also anybody who believes there are no, nor has there ever been an innocent man in prison is an idiot. Think about it, would we even have the term miscarriage of justice.

Our justice system says he's a rapist. That's all I can go on. Why would I believe his story overy any other convicted criminal. If he wins his appeal then great for him and he would be welcome at most clubs. Until then he is a convicted rapist who doesn't see what he's done is wrong


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: Bath Cobbler on January 06, 2015, 20:11:15 pm
Well put.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: A view from the east on January 06, 2015, 21:02:14 pm
I might be a bit old fashioned but this thread is nothing whatsoever to do with the Cobblers imo.
Begs the question as to why it is in Cobblers Corner ?


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: MCHammer on January 06, 2015, 23:55:46 pm
I was being ironic. I made that point pretty strongly at the start of the 2nd paragraph.

You and many others have glazed over the point I was making (and indeed Marvo).

IF she cannot remember how she ended up there let alone remember giving consent then how could the bloke be expected (whilst drunk) to know that at the time?

It's very grey area. Which is why 'rape' should be Defined for the masses. Make it clear that if as a bloke you have sex with a drunken woman over a certain level of influence and it's then clear. At the moment cases like this (and others that do not get to court) are a complete lottery.

Trust in the law is all well and good but if the law needs correcting then it should be. And in the case of drunken sex romps it clearly needs to be.

The bloke being too drunk themselves to know how drunk the women is doesn't absolve him from responsibility.  Sorry officer I was so p1ssed I didn't realise I was incapable of driving.  It's ridiculous.  You have a personal responsibility legally for your own actions drunk or otherwise.

Setting a limit.  Well far better more qualified people than you or I have considered that very idea and came to the conclusion it's impossible.  How do you set a limit? Is that limit different for various people?  Why should individuals not have the choice to have sex when drunk? How do you check if someone is under the limit before you have sex?  It's again so ridiculous when you try to get specific it becomes impossible which is why we have what is there is currently where evidence is gathered and if compelling enough is tested in a court of law.

Let's think about the Evans case.  Under your new limit law he would then be guilty as the woman was proven to be heavily under the influence of alcohol.

The facts of the Evans case are that he went to a hotel room with the full knowledge that his mate had took a woman back there.  He let himself into the room with a key he shouldn't really have had.  He watched his mate having sex with a woman then had sex with her as well despite her clearly being heavily under the influence of alcohol.  He then left the hotel via a fire exit and both of them left the woman in the hotel room. Now irrespective what you think of that woman and her motivations what a highly risky situation for any man to put themselves in.  He may well believe or has convinced himself he did nothing wrong other than cheat on his long term partner but that in itself is part of his current problem.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: SteveRiches on January 07, 2015, 03:02:45 am
The law says he committed rape. He says he didn't. Even if he's proved correct at appeal his actions that night were still reprehensible - HOWEVER - are we REALLY saying that a man who currently stands convicted of a crime but has served the punishment that the law has demanded should now be prevented from following his lawful trade? What hope is there for rehabilitation and fairness if the operation of an accepted legal system is to be distorted by the vagaries of an often ill-inforned and prejudiced wave of social media?


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: DrillingCobbler on January 07, 2015, 05:21:59 am
The bloke being too drunk themselves to know how drunk the women is doesn't absolve him from responsibility.  Sorry officer I was so p1ssed I didn't realise I was incapable of driving.  It's ridiculous.  You have a personal responsibility legally for your own actions drunk or otherwise.

Setting a limit.  Well far better more qualified people than you or I have considered that very idea and came to the conclusion it's impossible.  How do you set a limit? Is that limit different for various people?  Why should individuals not have the choice to have sex when drunk? How do you check if someone is under the limit before you have sex?  It's again so ridiculous when you try to get specific it becomes impossible which is why we have what is there is currently where evidence is gathered and if compelling enough is tested in a court of law.

Let's think about the Evans case.  Under your new limit law he would then be guilty as the woman was proven to be heavily under the influence of alcohol.

The facts of the Evans case are that he went to a hotel room with the full knowledge that his mate had took a woman back there.  He let himself into the room with a key he shouldn't really have had.  He watched his mate having sex with a woman then had sex with her as well despite her clearly being heavily under the influence of alcohol.  He then left the hotel via a fire exit and both of them left the woman in the hotel room. Now irrespective what you think of that woman and her motivations what a highly risky situation for any man to put themselves in.  He may well believe or has convinced himself he did nothing wrong other than cheat on his long term partner but that in itself is part of his current problem.

I don't overly disagree with you. Other than you have failed to cover the point as to whether the female should take any of the responsibility. Are you saying that it's only the blokes judgement that is relevant?


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: TbananaG on January 07, 2015, 06:27:11 am
One point that is routinely overlooked in all of this is that Evans has not yet "served his time": he is out on licence which means he could be back inside at the first sign of trouble to serve the balance of his sentence. Not a great position for any prospective employer, all else aside.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: HallamCobbler on January 07, 2015, 07:09:12 am
One point that is routinely overlooked in all of this is that Evans has not yet "served his time": he is out on licence which means he could be back inside at the first sign of trouble to serve the balance of his sentence. Not a great position for any prospective employer, all else aside.

True. Also rehabilitation doesn't mean going back into the job you had previously. There are plenty of jobs that will not hire convicted rapists (police, schools etc).

Being a footballer is not like most jobs. Just because you have better skills/ability than someone else doesn't mean you are entitled to the job.

Popularity, market value, team morale and public image are all huge aspects to consider.



Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: TbananaG on January 07, 2015, 07:31:32 am
The law says he committed rape. He says he didn't. Even if he's proved correct at appeal his actions that night were still reprehensible - HOWEVER - are we REALLY saying that a man who currently stands convicted of a crime but has served the punishment that the law has demanded should now be prevented from following his lawful trade? What hope is there for rehabilitation and fairness if the operation of an accepted legal system is to be distorted by the vagaries of an often ill-inforned and prejudiced wave of social media?

But this is a fundamental issue with our criminal justice system: completing a sentence means that you then move to day one of the rest of your life as a convicted criminal when you come out, it doesn't mean that you are in some way entitled to have your life back exactly as it was before, because you have "paid the price" for your crime.

Of course, this always has much less impact on the wealthy, powerful, already privileged, or even on those who have profited from their ill-gotten gains....who are much more likely to land on their feet. For the majority of offenders, it can be close to impossible to gain acceptance from a prospective employer, which narrows your options down and leads almost inevitably to routine re-offending. I can't see that social media has too much of a key role to play in this.

I'm not saying that Evans would be driven to re-offending, but a starting point for rehabilitation will always have to be some sense of contrition or remorse and a commitment to living your life differently in the future: Evans has shown no signs of anything other than wanting to portray himself as the victim in this scenario. At the risk of sounding like a grumpy old git, I do see this as kind of symptomatic of contemporary society - the disbelief that actions can have serious negative consequences and there won't always be somebody there to make everything alright whatever you do.

As you say, it appears that his actions that night were reprehensible and sordid if not criminal so, even if he is cleared on review of the conviction, you can imagine the scenes and chanting from opposition fans for ever more - do you really want to have to explain that to your children?



Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: MCHammer on January 07, 2015, 09:53:59 am
But this is a fundamental issue with our criminal justice system: completing a sentence means that you then move to day one of the rest of your life as a convicted criminal when you come out, it doesn't mean that you are in some way entitled to have your life back exactly as it was before, because you have "paid the price" for your crime.

Of course, this always has much less impact on the wealthy, powerful, already privileged, or even on those who have profited from their ill-gotten gains....who are much more likely to land on their feet. For the majority of offenders, it can be close to impossible to gain acceptance from a prospective employer, which narrows your options down and leads almost inevitably to routine re-offending. I can't see that social media has too much of a key role to play in this.

I'm not saying that Evans would be driven to re-offending, but a starting point for rehabilitation will always have to be some sense of contrition or remorse and a commitment to living your life differently in the future: Evans has shown no signs of anything other than wanting to portray himself as the victim in this scenario. At the risk of sounding like a grumpy old git, I do see this as kind of symptomatic of contemporary society - the disbelief that actions can have serious negative consequences and there won't always be somebody there to make everything alright whatever you do.

As you say, it appears that his actions that night were reprehensible and sordid if not criminal so, even if he is cleared on review of the conviction, you can imagine the scenes and chanting from opposition fans for ever more - do you really want to have to explain that to your children?



Really good post that I agree with wholeheartedly.  Footballers have got away with all sorts over the years because there is always a club that is willing to take the risk if a player is good enough and the risk versus reward is high enough irrespective of any moral viewpoint.  I'm sure things will calm down and eventually Evans will find a club willing to risk the wrath because the benefits will out weigh the negatives so I don't spend too much time worrying about his future.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: Iest_ntfc on January 07, 2015, 10:26:45 am
As with everything in football these days it looks like money talks

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/ched-evans-to-oldham-athletic-family-will-pay-up-to-pave-the-way-for-deal-with-league-one-club-9961432.html

It does make you wonder why a succefull business man would not only forgive his future son in law for cheating on his daughter but also put his reputation on the line for a so called rapist. Maybe Ched isn't the serial rapist hanging about dark allyways that he's being made out to be.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: MCHammer on January 07, 2015, 10:44:41 am
I don't overly disagree with you. Other than you have failed to cover the point as to whether the female should take any of the responsibility. Are you saying that it's only the blokes judgement that is relevant?

Depends what you mean by the female taking responsibility.  As I said before we are all responsible for our own behaviour.  By equal measure both parties have to be consenting.  As ridiculous as it may seem it would work equally the other way if a man was so drunk he was incapable of giving consent and a woman took advantage of that situation he can rightly claim he was raped.

If you are talking about a female taking responsibility for not getting so drunk or not putting herself in that dangerous situation then yes an individual has to accept that their own actions may put them in danger.  However that doesn't mean it's ok for a crime to then be committed.  If I went for a late night walk through the Eastern district with a wallet full of cash I'm putting myself at risk.  If I get mugged and beaten up, yes I put myself at risk but the mugging is still a crime and the offender should be punished.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: MCHammer on January 07, 2015, 10:59:10 am
As with everything in football these days it looks like money talks

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/ched-evans-to-oldham-athletic-family-will-pay-up-to-pave-the-way-for-deal-with-league-one-club-9961432.html

It does make you wonder why a succefull business man would not only forgive his future son in law for cheating on his daughter but also put his reputation on the line for a so called rapist. Maybe Ched isn't the serial rapist hanging about dark allyways that he's being made out to be.

Like I said earlier just needed somewhere where the reward was greater than the risk.  Knew it would happen cause he's too good a player for someone desperate enough not to take the chance.

Oh and he's not a "so called rapist" he is a rapist unless a subsequent legal decision changes that.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: DrillingCobbler on January 07, 2015, 13:05:09 pm
Really good post that I agree with wholeheartedly.  Footballers have got away with all sorts over the years because there is always a club that is willing to take the risk if a player is good enough and the risk versus reward is high enough irrespective of any moral viewpoint.  I'm sure things will calm down and eventually Evans will find a club willing to risk the wrath because the benefits will out weigh the negatives so I don't spend too much time worrying about his future.

So even if his appeal is successful and he is cleared it's still not good enough for the both of you!

Why? Because he had a sordid night out on the pull? (Assuming if rape is cleared). Rooney better be stripped of his captaincy for England then! Good job John Terry is only the captain of Chelsea now. Even Gordon Ramsey must be on the verge of losing his tv contracts. Blimey, a sordid night out equals end of a geezers career in your eyes!

As for chanting. You better not take your kids to the Cobblers full stop. Just in case they ask why Northampton is full of **** and fanny, why the refs a W anker, why Barry Frys a xxxx and especially when our opponents have Tyler in goal.

Good God. It's been a good debate up to now but that view is frankly rediculous!


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: DrillingCobbler on January 07, 2015, 13:08:09 pm
Sorry the quote above hasn't worked properly on my phone. It was the whole of Bananas quote and Mcs subsequent agreement that it responds to!


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: MCHammer on January 07, 2015, 13:54:12 pm
So even if his appeal is successful and he is cleared it's still not good enough for the both of you!

Why? Because he had a sordid night out on the pull? (Assuming if rape is cleared). Rooney better be stripped of his captaincy for England then! Good job John Terry is only the captain of Chelsea now. Even Gordon Ramsey must be on the verge of losing his tv contracts. Blimey, a sordid night out equals end of a geezers career in your eyes!

As for chanting. You better not take your kids to the Cobblers full stop. Just in case they ask why Northampton is full of **** and fanny, why the refs a W anker, why Barry Frys a xxxx and especially when our opponents have Tyler in goal.

Good God. It's been a good debate up to now but that view is frankly rediculous!

So you pick one line out of the many written, focus on that and twist it to be something it didn't actually say, who's being ridiculous?  Course if he wins an appeal that changes his status legally.  It doesn't remove the sordid incident from history and doesn't mean morally everyone has to suddenly approve of what he did that night.  Are you saying what Rooney, Terry or even Gordon Ramsey did in the past has had no effect on their public and professional persona?  Maybe over time they are lucky enough or good enough to be able to work through it but there are plenty who haven't been able to.

Maybe you have a different moral compass of what you deem is acceptable behaviour from the people you look on as role models.  Would I want my junior footballers to look at those examples you have given above as people who have used their ability and fame correctly throughout their careers?  Maybe as good examples of how not to behave? 


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: TbananaG on January 07, 2015, 15:23:24 pm
So even if his appeal is successful and he is cleared it's still not good enough for the both of you!

Why? Because he had a sordid night out on the pull? (Assuming if rape is cleared). Rooney better be stripped of his captaincy for England then! Good job John Terry is only the captain of Chelsea now. Even Gordon Ramsey must be on the verge of losing his tv contracts. Blimey, a sordid night out equals end of a geezers career in your eyes!

As for chanting. You better not take your kids to the Cobblers full stop. Just in case they ask why Northampton is full of **** and fanny, why the refs a W anker, why Barry Frys a xxxx and especially when our opponents have Tyler in goal.

Good God. It's been a good debate up to now but that view is frankly rediculous!

Sorry, you often have really interesting things to say, but if that's how you choose to (mis-)read what was written then I just can't be bothered to respond. Sorry, but you are responding to something that was in your head and not anything written by me or MCHammer in any case.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: DrillingCobbler on January 07, 2015, 15:32:54 pm
I obviously misinterpreted what you both said, appologies for that.

MC...I wouldn't take the guy on mainly because of your points about finances and implications etc. Not for NTFC that is.

Morally what he did wasn't right. I have never left a girl like that, he clearly 'used and abused her' which is wrong. But it isn't a crime if that is what he did which is what I believe he did. Hope that clarifies things.

I also happen to believe that he's a dick. However he was drunk, he's young etc etc etc. Again on the basis that I believe him to be innocent of rape. If he did rape her (as I see rape and not because she was too drunk to consent only for that consent to be basically retracted on sobering up) then his sentence was far too lenient...like they are in most cases.

I think it's time that we move back to discussing things on here NTFC related, I feel that posts I've made have been similarly misread whilst ultimately our views are all probably quite similar ultimately. UTC!


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: WasRambo on January 07, 2015, 20:43:35 pm
Evans was clearly an idiot for putting himself in that position. He also showed himself to be less than savoury in terms of how he treated the girl and his girlfriend. Even if his appeal is successful (which, like it or not, I think it will be) theres enough poor personal traits there to have doubts about employing him.

However, at present there is no law to stop him playing again. Hes not a teacher, or such like. So if a club is willing to take him, then they can. Deal with it, he may have done the crime but hes done his time (at least enough for them to let him out). Thats the point of the correctional system. Its about rehabilitation as much as punishment.

As for lack of remorse, what can he do? He's not going to damage his appeal by saying sorry is he?  Even If he says sorry for getting himself in the situation what purpose does that serve? He just comes across as uncaring of the other party.

Yes he was convicted but I have sufficient doubts about the case to stop short of calling him a rapist and so should anyone given the impending appeal. They dont just dish appeals out like lollipops, theres a reason he's getting one.

So, would I personally take him on? Probably not. Would I desert the Cobblers if DC did? Probably not. Its all irrelevant anyway



Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: TbananaG on January 08, 2015, 08:34:07 am

As for lack of remorse, what can he do?


Well, for a start, his friends, family and supporters could stop hounding the woman. I understand that she has had to move house five times since the incident. You might want to argue that his punishment has ended on release - when does hers end?


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: MK_Cobbler on January 08, 2015, 09:16:21 am
Well, for a start, his friends, family and supporters could stop hounding the woman. I understand that she has had to move house five times since the incident. You might want to argue that his punishment has ended on release - when does hers end?

When she tells the truth  ;)


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: TbananaG on January 08, 2015, 09:43:20 am
When she tells the truth  ;)

To be fair, she has never claimed to have any recollection of the incident and made no complaint. Evans was convicted on his own evidence of what happened.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: North_East_Cobbler on January 08, 2015, 11:09:34 am
So Oldham have decided against signing him then. Sponsors pulling out, threats to Oldham staff etc. . . . . . .


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: guest49 on January 08, 2015, 12:02:54 pm
He may as well forget signing for anyone until after the appeal and depending that outcome maybe altogether. Either that or head to a conference team.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: MK_Cobbler on January 08, 2015, 12:51:20 pm
So Oldham have decided against signing him then. Sponsors pulling out, threats to Oldham staff etc. . . . . . .

You can’t beat a good old randomer jumping in with a few threats. Why to these people get so heavily involved? Do they not have a life?


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: everbrite on January 08, 2015, 13:41:07 pm
To be fair, she has never claimed to have any recollection of the incident and made no complaint. Evans was convicted on his own evidence of what happened.

Evans was stupid to get involved; certain aspects of the woman's subsequent behaviour appear unsavoury as is the reported threats to Oldham staff. It has all the appearances of a witch hunt now; judgement by the Media(online petitions). His rehab appears a foregone conclusion. Banana - if the woman did not recall the incident how did the Prosecution pursue the case presumably on her behalf?


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: Deepcut Cobbler on January 08, 2015, 14:03:53 pm
The Oldham Chairman has resigned because of the death threats.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: Deepcut Cobbler on January 08, 2015, 14:05:08 pm
The Oldham Chairman has resigned because of the death threats.

Or maybe he hasn't?


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: John on January 08, 2015, 14:39:04 pm
The Cobblers have made the following statement today when asked if they would sign Ched Evans.

" We haven't been offered the opportunity to sign or give a trial to Ched Evans. It is not something the club have considered."

I think he should sign for MK Dons, it's not like their reputation could suffer any further.

Or even Peterborough? I'm not sure in a table of reprehensible acts, whether rape is above or below wife beater.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: guest1269 on January 08, 2015, 14:51:16 pm
I still find the case perplexing in that he was found guilty and the original participant was not - appeal and due process may subsequently find him not guilty and his actions, whilst not by my judgement "a normal night on the pull" then become non criminal.
That said in either case he is free to ply his trade and should be - his ease or difficuly in getting a job as in all cases depends on his cv which of course covers both his ability in football and his character - ultimately money will talk and he will play again.

Why I personally would not want such a character playing for my team, is much more about his behaviour after the event - absolutely no contrition or regret (and no, doing such does not admit guilt) - and more importantly, my understanding is, not a word to tell the vile trolls to back off in his name in the increasingly popular sport of internet persecution.  


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: guest1269 on January 08, 2015, 14:53:04 pm
The Cobblers have made the following statement today when asked if they would sign Ched Evans.

" We haven't been offered the opportunity to sign or give a trial to Ched Evans. It is not something the club have considered."

I think he should sign for MK Dons, it's not like their reputation could suffer any further.

Or even Peterborough? I'm not sure in a table of reprehensible acts, whether rape is above or below wife beater.

Convicted wife beater please


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: Deepcut Cobbler on January 08, 2015, 15:10:58 pm
...or down here in Plymouth?


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: Air-Dan on January 09, 2015, 22:59:53 pm
I think he should sign for MK Dons, it's not like their reputation could suffer any further.

Or even Peterborough? I'm not sure in a table of reprehensible acts, whether rape is above or below wife beater.

These are actually two of the twelve clubs which entirely ruled out the possibility of signing him when asked by the BBC.

MK Dons - "Ched Evans is not part of our plans."
Peterborough - "We are not interested in Ched Evans, full stop."


... Yeovil?


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: TbananaG on January 10, 2015, 00:07:02 am
Football is such a stupid little world sometimes. Who the f*** does Steve Bruce think he is, using a global media platform and his position as Hull manager to try to influence people that they would think Evans had a right to a probably successful appeal if only they knew all the facts. What other profession would give someone the arrogance to believe they know better than a judge and jury in a court of law? It's one thing for us lot to throw opinions about on here where nobody's listening, quite another for him to abuse his position of influence like that. If he was my employee, I would sack him in a flash.

And the world's highest paid union official, Gordon Taylor, draws an analogy between a rape conviction and the Hillsborough disaster to try to support his union member. Is everyone associated with professional football just pig ignorant, arrogant and bigoted? I really wish they would all just shut the f*** up, unless it's to talk about football.

It's such a cosseted, protected, luxurious co**** they live in that perhaps it's no wonder that Evans can't begin to see the wrong in what he did and seems to think he should be spared the consequences of his actions.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: CordwainerBill on January 10, 2015, 07:55:46 am
I have not seen one debate on Ched Evans where the criteria is correct, lets have it right, Ched Evan IS "allowed" to play for any club in the UK he wants , the problem he is encountering is that no body wants him ,Oldham looked at him decided they didn't like the baggage that goes with him, should have been obvious in foresight IMO but there you go.
There are many players out there struggling to find clubs,  I cannot work out why being a convicted rapist raises your profile to a degree that the head of the PFA personally takes over responsibility to help pave the way for a new club . Kelvin Langmead could do with a hand right now  , Alex Nicholls situation wasn't fair and he must have feared for his livelihood I can't remember Gordon Taylor coming out for Alex whilst Chris Wilder dallied over his contract this summer , there are loads of cases of bad luck out there where guys are not paying for a drunken nights of debauchery but find themselves out of work for  more honest reasons.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: Charlatan on January 10, 2015, 08:44:20 am
I have not seen one debate on Ched Evans where the criteria is correct, lets have it right, Ched Evan IS "allowed" to play for any club in the UK he wants , the problem he is encountering is that no body wants him ,Oldham looked at him decided they didn't like the baggage that goes with him, should have been obvious in foresight IMO but there you go.
There are many players out there struggling to find clubs,  I cannot work out why being a convicted rapist raises your profile to a degree that the head of the PFA personally takes over responsibility to help pave the way for a new club . Kelvin Langmead could do with a hand right now  , Alex Nicholls situation wasn't fair and he must have feared for his livelihood I can't remember Gordon Taylor coming out for Alex whilst Chris Wilder dallied over his contract this summer , there are loads of cases of bad luck out there where guys are not paying for a drunken nights of debauchery but find themselves out of work for  more honest reasons.
Good post Bill.



Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: defender on January 24, 2015, 08:46:09 am
  He has served his time, he is claiming to be not guilty, this seems to be the problem, but he won't be the first to get a wrong verdict. Perhaps we should try to sign him?


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: The 12th Marquis of Sixfields on January 24, 2015, 09:27:16 am
If not just for moral reasons, perhaps look into why Oldham ended up deciding it wasn't worth it.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: defender on January 24, 2015, 17:33:02 pm
If not just for moral reasons, perhaps look into why Oldham ended up deciding it wasn't worth it.
             You could have a point there.
 


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: John on January 29, 2015, 11:26:37 am
Latest:

Ched Evans has submitted "previously unavilable fresh evidence" he hopes will help overturn his rape conviction.

The footballer's legal team has handed new information to the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC), which investigate wrongful convictions.

It is now up to the CCRC if they refer Evan's case back to the Court of the Appeal.

A statement on the 26-year-old's website said: "Further detailed submissions - supported by previously unavailable fresh evidence that we believe strengthens Ched’s application - were lodged with the Commission."

A CCRC spokesman confirmed they had received the additional submissions but would not give any further details.

Former Sheffield United player Evans was convicted of raping a 19-year-old woman in April 2012 and sentenced to five years in prison.

He was released in October 2014 and has been unable to find a club since.

His girlfriend Natasha Massey chose to stand by him and he proposed two weeks after leaving jail.



Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: North_East_Cobbler on January 29, 2015, 12:06:30 pm
Quick question. Where would that leave him if his conviction gets overturned? Could he be sue the girl in question for lack of earnings for the past 2 years, for example? - I'm not going back into the "is he quilty or not" debate, as the courts have, thus far, found him to be so. But if it transpires that he is not a convicted rapist, as proven in a court of law, then surely he'd be entitled to claim back lost earnings whilst he was wrongly convicted?

Don't get me wrong, this isn't me feeling sorry for the guy. Afterall, what he did (whether it was consensual or not) was completely immoral, but I think it's a very dangerous thing to call rape if someone's just been a bit too drunk and done something that they regret* in the morning.

*this is in no way saying that rape is not a serious offence. However, there has to be a distinction between genuine rape, and just someone calling it the day after once regret sets in. Otherwise, rape just becomes something that is banded about all too often, which dilutes the perception of such a serious crime.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: HallamCobbler on February 12, 2015, 19:25:46 pm
I think he gets lost earnings back from the judiciary system rather than from the other party. As is the case with most wrongful convictions.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: DrillingCobbler on October 05, 2015, 14:07:56 pm
Well its gone to appeal...based on new evidence.

Good. I sincerely hope that this guy is now proven innocent, I have never thought of him guilty throughout.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: HallamCobbler on October 06, 2015, 10:46:14 am
Whether what he did that night is considered rape or not he is still a complete a$$hole.

His wife must have no self-respect what's so ever.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: DrillingCobbler on October 06, 2015, 13:42:53 pm
Whether what he did that night is considered rape or not he is still a complete a$$hole.

His wife must have no self-respect what's so ever.

Agreed. But that isn't really the point. If he's not a rapist (and proved that) then it shows how badly the law needs to change to cover what is in many cases very grey area.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: HallamCobbler on October 06, 2015, 13:47:06 pm
If he can prove it now why couldn't he prove it before?

If new evidence has come to light then that's fine and its shame it wasn't available at first but that's not the fault of the law is it?


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: singcobb on October 08, 2015, 18:45:36 pm
The law is an a$$. And all that.

The law that allows people arrested to be named before a trial is not an a$$ it is in itself criminal.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: HallamCobbler on October 09, 2015, 14:33:36 pm
The law that allows people arrested to be named before a trial is not an a$$ it is in itself criminal.

Pretty hard for members of the public to come forward with evidence either way if they don't know what the trial is about.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: singcobb on October 10, 2015, 00:03:23 am
Pretty hard for members of the public to come forward with evidence either way if they don't know what the trial is about.

For it to go to trial the job of the CPS and the defense lawyers is to get all of those who need to give evidence on the list submitted to the court before the trial starts, so naming a possibly innocent person in the press achieves nothing except aggravation for them and their family. I know of one person named in a rape trial who was hounded out of his home and dismissed from his job before the trial at which he was found not guilty and the woman who made the claims against him was later prosecuted for attempting to pervert the course of justice.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: HallamCobbler on October 10, 2015, 10:22:11 am
For it to go to trial the job of the CPS and the defense lawyers is to get all of those who need to give evidence on the list submitted to the court before the trial starts, so naming a possibly innocent person in the press achieves nothing except aggravation for them and their family. I know of one person named in a rape trial who was hounded out of his home and dismissed from his job before the trial at which he was found not guilty and the woman who made the claims against him was later prosecuted for attempting to pervert the course of justice.

Agree, just saying I think thats why they name them.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: singcobb on October 10, 2015, 13:04:39 pm
No they name them because it's what your average Joe in the street wants to read after looking at page 3.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: BackOfTheNet on April 21, 2016, 08:57:19 am
It's a difficult one. **** is a reprehensible crime and once someone has been convicted of it I have no time for them and would struggle to come to terms with cheering them on if they played for us. The more you read about this case though the more dubious the conviction sounds.
Considering it is essentially one person's word against another, and one of those people was so out of it on drink and drugs they have no recollection of events it's very difficult to see how the court can find in favour of that person's version of events.
This is especially true when you include the comments overheard by the taxi driver and the mobile phone footage. Sure, these don't prove that a **** did or didn't occur later in the evening, but they do suggest that earlier in the evening she was consentual to some acts. Of course, that doesn't mean she consented to anything else, but it does cast doubt.

And therein lies the reason why I think his conviction will be overturned; I really can't see how, in the absence of physical evidence, a jury can reach a verdict that is beyond reasonable doubt. Being entirely objective about it, while events in that room were almost certainly rather unsavoury, it's pretty much impossible to prove either way.

And indeed it has been overturned. He's to face a retrial and rightfully so, but this time I hope all the available evidence will be heard so a true verdict can be reached. How some of the stuff was omitted last time was scandalous all round, really; it hasn't helped the victim, the accused, the legal system or the tax payer who subsequently has had to foot the bill for everything that has followed.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: DrillingCobbler on April 21, 2016, 09:31:07 am
VERY please with this. Took a bit of a beating at the time on here and via social media sites. You know...supporting a 'rapist' and all that.

I really hope that he is acquitted and that the girl gets named and shamed.

She tweeted a day or two after the 'rape' that she was taking all of her mates out on holiday because she was coming into some money. The tone of it was a very happy and boastful one as well. Subsequently deleted that though.

She also managed to walk unaided into the hotel carrying a pizza, speak with the receptionist of the hotel etc. And didn't appear to be intoxicated in the slightest. Yet cannot remember a thing apparently.

She was after money...and may end up making it more difficult for genuine rape victims to have their cases trusted and believed. The law is so wrong.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: BackOfTheNet on April 21, 2016, 10:03:27 am
Agree, Drilling. I don't think he's a very nice man. Actually, I think he's probably a bit of a c***. That isn't a crime though and when you actually read around this a little, some of the stuff that the original trial refused to accept as evidence casts a very different light on events.
I've no idea if he raped her or not. I really haven't. However, I think it's vital that he (or anyone else) is allowed to present all relevant evidence in order to defend themselves, otherwise they really aren't receiving a fair trial.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: OldStratfordCobbler on April 21, 2016, 10:21:50 am
And don't forget that Ntfc also has a tenuous link in the Ched Evans affair. Clayton McDonald, one of the co-defendants in the case who was acquitted, is the brother of Concrete Rod!


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: Deepcut Cobbler on October 14, 2016, 14:22:44 pm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-37659009


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: Saint Cobbler on October 14, 2016, 14:46:20 pm
Interesting that his clearance from all convictions coincides with the retirement of Jessica Ennis who tried to ruin his career and life.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: DrillingCobbler on October 14, 2016, 16:43:53 pm
I took a quick look on twitter earlier and it seems that all of the Ched Haters are now crying that he's been found innocent and claiming that the witnesses involved were in it for cash. Unbelievable Jeff.

I hope he takes the law to the cleaners, I really do. Its disgraceful what happened.

And for those saying the girl didn't report it. She went to the bloody police, bless her! Cant make up the crap that people spout. Her decisions have ruined a blokes life and made him a hate figure in so many peoples eyes. Even now that he's been found innocent.

I decided earlier not to debate this on social media, but had to get it off my chest so I've had my rant on the subject on here!


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: Wolvo on October 14, 2016, 17:54:34 pm
Will always remember when he was initially found guilty, I was following the case very closely whilst in my third year of University. Terrible from the justice system. I believe the woman in question never accused Ched of rape though - only went in to report a missing bag and the police pursued it from there.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: singcobb on October 17, 2016, 11:21:23 am
One thing that really p!sses me off is the disproportionately lower amount of coverage given to his clearing of all charges then to the coverage given when he was found guilty.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: Deepcut Cobbler on October 17, 2016, 11:53:57 am
Similar to the small internal columns normally given to apologies for incorrect front page headlines...


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: singcobb on October 17, 2016, 14:07:48 pm
13. Across: He is not a werewolf.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: Wolvo on October 17, 2016, 15:06:17 pm
One thing that really p!sses me off is the disproportionately lower amount of coverage given to his clearing of all charges then to the coverage given when he was found guilty.

Nonsense, real trustworthy papers like The Sun covered this as front page news.

(http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/ACDD/production/_91935244_thesun15-10.jpg)


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: singcobb on October 17, 2016, 16:06:45 pm
He is almost a newsworthy as a free razor and as for treating women like dirt the Sun should be careful of all the glass around them.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: Wolvo on October 17, 2016, 16:28:50 pm
He is almost a newsworthy as a free razor and as for treating women like dirt the Sun should be careful of all the glass around them.

Well if you don't like looking at pictures of a man who treats women like dirt, you can skip to pages 2 and 3 where you can see ALL of Ola. Treat of a newspaper.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: 606 Parklands_Cobbler on October 17, 2016, 17:12:45 pm
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/14570622_1126782280708564_64174307146184280_o.png)

Just something for us all to consider....


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: singcobb on October 17, 2016, 21:18:48 pm
That 606 is an excellent piece. The Sun certainly falls into the victimisation section.

Well if you don't like looking at pictures of a man who treats women like dirt, you can skip to pages 2 and 3 where you can see ALL of Ola. Treat of a newspaper.

To be honest, I cannot see why it is still in circulation. There is no place in a socially advanced society for what is not much better than a w@nk rag.

As for Evans, the jury decided he was not guilty of rape. Unfortunately the courts do not pass judgement moral issues only legal.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: Dr Feelgood on October 18, 2016, 16:28:47 pm
No one will know except Evans or the girl. If he is truly innocent which a lot of times athletes are then she should be done for perjury.



Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: singcobb on October 18, 2016, 20:54:49 pm
No one will know except Evans or the girl. If he is truly innocent which a lot of times athletes are then she should be done for perjury.



The issue is not if she told the truth or not, it's that she wasn't a credible witness as Evans and the jury took Evans's word to be more believable. Also you have to consider that a not guilty verdict is issued when there is some doubt. The jury could well have considered a guilty verdict, but been reluctant due to it being a retrial which in itself lends a certain amount of doubt from the outset.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: Air-Dan on April 24, 2017, 17:49:09 pm
Signed for Sheffield United.

Very strange call from Sir Chris, he's hardly been prolific in L1 this season.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: Irchy cob on April 24, 2017, 18:09:54 pm
And for half a million if you believe the reports - this for a striker who has scored once since January.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: Deepcut Cobbler on April 24, 2017, 18:14:39 pm
I wonder what Dame Jessica thinks of it?


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: lift tower on April 24, 2017, 18:32:51 pm
funny to see the blades fans on their forum blaming bbc radio sheffield for reporting the story even though its true. Talk about shooting the messenger. Apparently this is proof the station is biased against them and pro sheffield wednesday. Weirdos.


Title: Re: Ched Evans
Post by: Wolvo on April 24, 2017, 18:37:32 pm
Very strange signing. Looked awful when he played against us. But he is playing for a terrible side, and he was very prolific all those years ago. Fully expect him to be joined by Smith and Holmes next season.