The Hotel End

Labour's leaked manifesto has several cracking football reform policies.

Football supporters' trusts would be offered the chance to purchase shares when clubs change hands and to put two directors on the board.

Labour will also pledge to make sure the Premier League invests 5% of its TV income into grassroots and youth football, including improving coaching, facilities and pitches.

This would have made the Sixfields missing millions much more unlikely if implemented in the past. Would be great news for the grassroots game too.

Bravo.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/labours-manifesto-pledges-football-fans-10401526 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/labours-manifesto-pledges-football-fans-10401526)

Thank God they wont get in. What a load of crap.

 ???


Looks like a series of excellent ideas to me. Certainly would have a positive impact upon football at the grassroots level, and indeed throughout the lower leagues. Getting fans involved in decision making and the running of clubs where possible is an excellent idea.

No doubt though it's the latest in a series of Labour policies which would benefit the vast majority of those affected but which will be rejected by a stubborn electorate who've already made up their minds on Corbyn and his party based on biased media reporting and the electorate's total failure to grasp Keynesian economics.

Exactly how many supporters want fans on the board ? its a fancy idea with no benefit to the fans at all. More likely to put off potential backers if supporters are trying to block every move.
 The Premier League already give the 72 Football League Clubs over £129,120,000 Million, more would be nice but its a start. Keep Politics out of the running of Sport.
Its just the Labour Party starting to scrape the bottom of the barrel.

Oh no!

Arguing about football is one thing, but politics.....definite no no for me.

I do get the impression though that Labour try to appeal to people with policies that will 'excite' without always thinking through how they will achieve it in monetary terms.    
  

I think they put Dianne Abbot in charge of the calculater  ;D ;D

Yes, that was so funny to watch. The radio presenters face was a picture  ;D

If you didn't want to debate politics, why did you comment? ;D

You can say anything if it's got no chance of ever happening. The Labour manifesto is a bit like a lot of the comments on here. Ridiculous and nobody to pay for it.

Exactly this. Everything sounds great. But we don't live in an ideal world, and there is a reason we haven't had a left wing government since the 70's. Labour is even more dead now than when Blair realised it. Increased automation hasn't helped and thats only going one way.

Let's hear some a proper critique of the football policies mentioned but save us the sub Daily Mail spiel, it's boring and also bollocks. Tories are no safe hands on the and economy never have been. They are nowhere near eliminating the deficit their pet project.

What they have delivered:


NHS Cuts
Social care crisis
Longest fall in value of wages since records began
NHS recruitment crisis
Huge rise in child poverty
Housing crisis
Public transport crisis
Biggest education cuts in decades
Huge leap in food bank dependency
Homelessness crisis
Local government defunding and council cuts
Police and fire cuts
Sweetheart tax deals
Election fraud
Rising inequality
The threat of the breakup of the UK following brexit.

And before you say the other classic Mail line of  'look what they inherited from Labour', the 2008 financial crisis was caused largely by the US sub prime fraud.

Actually, been in long term development and fully costed but, again, carry on with the Mail/Express waffle.

I guess the Tories fully costed driving nearly every public service into crisis ???

I wouldn't let corbyn run a raffle never mind the country.

Yeah, fully costed and backed by "leading economists", none of whom are named and none of which is explained. Utter garbage, it's just a list of spend, spend, spend with nothing but a tax hoik for those earning over 80k mentioned in their plans to balance it out. Oh, and they'll set their own bank up to fund it. Of course they will. Idealist, interventionist claptrap that flies in the face of everything a free market economy stands for.

And back on topic, they should keep their noses out of the running of football clubs as well as other businesses.

Yes cos the market is serving football so well.

Actually, it is. There's an enormous amount of money flowing into the game, it just isn't shared out evenly. However, you won't see a cleaner cut example of a meritocracy in any walk of life. It's in the hands of the club's themselves; do better, get a bigger share.

That may sound fine in your head but nothing is that clear cut. Enormous amount flowing into the game from our Sky bills you mean. I'd have hoped with our own club's history or rank bad ownership you'd take a slightly more nuanced look at the effects of free market football.

What proper little coiled spring you are...  ;D ;D

How on the earth did your myopic view arrive at the fact that I read the Daily mail, or that I am a Tory.

You're a classic big mouth, looking for a set of ears to listen to your shyte.  ;D

Yes, that's exactly what I mean about where it's coming from. Money is money. And what on earth has the fact we've had a couple of crap chairmen got to do with Labour's proposed football policies? Unless I've missed something and they are also planning on nationalising all of our football clubs too..?

Now you're talking.  ;D

I think that might be considered shared ownership.  :P

I see this has been quoted as "shyte" on here, I'm interested to know which bits are not true ??

Sorry to disappoint but I don't read the Mail/Express or any paper for that matter.

I think your nom de plume is very apt.

I'd f***ing hate fans to run our club.

I dont know why anybody is debating this. Labour will not win. The British people know best.
Just like we did with Brexit.( sits back and waits...)

Meccano if Labour hadn't opened the door to 3 million immigrants these problems wouldn't arise, wouldn't trust Corbyn to run a bath never mind a country. We left the 1970s a long ago let's not return.

Bit careless of Jeremy to run over a photographers foot and put him in hospital.

I'm a very centre ground person politically.

I think labour have many good ideas, both on football and on social care etc which are in crisis.

However I find them too extreme left for my taste.

On football itself, I personally think that the English game is on the edge of crisis. Greed and corruption is rife. More and more clubs are falling in to the wrong hands. The lack of any proper regulatory body is a major problem, requiring legislative reform to fix.

What you ought to be more interested in is why none of the fcukers can get it right. Rather than trying to decided who will get it least wrong so you can vote for them.

I hope the photographer has got access to private care after what the Tory nobs are doing to the NHS.

This shows you up for the sad individual you are. Nothing constructive to say so just roll up your Daily Mail and jog off.

Does everybody who thinks Labour might not get in have to be a Daily mail reader? I mean.. Will they get in? Regardless of your politics, or in my case total indifference, why is it unfair to state it is highly unlikely on this occasion that Labour will get in? Even Corbyn has acknowledged the size of the task he faces. Does that mean he's wielding a Daily mail in his hand.

As I said earlier on in this thread, there are stark contrast between having a wish list or opinion, to actually knowing you will or might have to implement it in the full light of the country, or in a football manager/chairmans terms, the supporters/media.

I couldn't give a tinker's cuss who gets in. But if I was pushed. I'd go with the Greens.

this thread is amazing. Its as if football fans and people in general are that accustomed to being screwed over by the greedy and powerful that they can't cope with the concept of it not happening and anyone that suggests otherwise is a fantasist.  ;D The right in this country have done a wonderful job of brainwashing the populace.

I read the Daily Mail and so does my wife.
It doesn't necessarily indicate my political persuasion.

Getting this back to football.

Several national teams have been banned by FIFA due to the 'government interference' with the national FA.
There have been several headlines over the past few years about the governement getting involved with reforming the FA if they dont do it themselves and now these proposals from labour.
Does any one know what level of interference is needed before FIFA get involved?

Thanks for that Frank.
Just to let you know I don't read the Mail, maybe you should stick to the comic of the Daily Mirror, much more suited to your lower intelligence.

All I'm saying is 4 more bank holidays  ;D ;D

Labour are a complete joke, two words, Dianne Abbot who miss spoke what ever that means.
The Torys will return a 100+ majority and the bitter and twisted left hate the thought.
Personally it's not a good thing what has happened to Labour but the world seems to be restless at the moment and has turned to extremes.
In terms of football the people that are killing the game are the Premier League with the most ridiculous sums of money changing hands.

Well I think the proposals are excellent.  I don't think with the current crop of troublesome chairmen - these things can be ignored forever.  The FA don't want to know with their gravy train, and the EFL are basically a joke.

I've never understood why people diss manifestos, there is quite a lot of tribalism in politics I vote Labour because I'm working class, Conservative because I run a business, Green because I don't believe in nuclear weapons etc etc.  Good policies are good policies regardless of who provides them - don't knock them just because you don't like May, Corbyn, Farron etc. 

The issue for us on this board is about the fair distribution throughout the EFL and beyond of football money, mainly earned by the sale of broadcasting rights.  That Labour are prepared to raise the issue is to its credit but whatever our politics may be no one really expects anything next month other than a substantial Tory victory. Therefore, nothing will change to alter football finances. 

My view is that this should not be a party political issue but a football issue.  The EFL seems weak and just happy to accept the crumbs offered by the Premier League & FA.  EFL clubs especially those in L1 & L2 will continue to struggle to be financially viable or be able to develop their grounds to modern standards of comfort and facilities. It's a sorry state of affairs.

I would gladly accept a World Cup ban for a few years if it meant proper legislation and governance is brought in to our game.

It's not like England are going to win it is it?

Corbyn's proposal is really nothing more than a soundbite.  Think about it, legislation is brought in to allow Trusts the opportunity to buy a club when it changes hands.  Implicit in this is that a Trust would have to match any other competing bid.  Just how many Trusts could raise the funds to this at any club in the 92?  I suspect just 2 or 3, if that.  And that just to buy the club.  Taking our own example, while the Trust was involved late on in the local consortium as a backup to KT's offer, it certainly did not have universal support primarily because fans were concerned about its ability to provide ongoing financial support beyond the act of rescue.   I also remember a good friend of mine and founder of Man Utd's first and still main fanzine, Red Issue, was involved in similar moves when JP Macmanus and Magnier tried to take control of United; the United fans couldn't mount a serious challenge because they couldn't agree amongst the different factions.    I'm sure Tom will cite Portsmouth and Wycombe, but the former will face bigger challenges and expectations in League One and I'm sure their fan wouldn't decline a bid from a wealthy bona fide backer, and Wycombe simply cannot find backers to drive them forward.  

Corbyn's a breath of fresh air, his leadership is born out of a rejection of a new political class that now see's the Tories becoming the neo-liberal party post Blair. The so called Tory party which is meant to be the patriotic party wouldn't ever re-nationalise railways, which were invented in this country, they prefer to sell it all off.  The costs are nationalised through state subsidy's but the profits are privatised.  If you don't want to vote for Corbyn/Labour or their set of ideals, that's fine, but with policies like re-nationalising railways and energy the Labour party is regaining its purpose. 

And of what relevance is this political statement of relevance to NTFC and its supporters?

An interjection of propaganda sponsored by Comrade Corbyn's party.

Corbyn  certainly is a breath of fresh air for the Conservatives.
With his outdated  thinking dating back to the 1940s.
The trains in this country are a lot better than that crap that was British Rail. Putting companies back into the Goverments hands ? Really ? How 20th century.

It's massively union driven. They fund the Labour party, if the railways are renationalised they effectively end up negotiating with the Labour party over pay rises. You can hear that conversation now. "Oh, you don't want to pay that? Maybe we'll look at your funding. Oh, you WILL pay that? Jolly good."

I reckon this discussion needs to go under "other footy/sport"....

If British Rail was given the same subsidies that privatised operators had it would've been better in every sense. Instead it was ran at a loss for an excuse to privatise it. The current situation is that a lot of Britain's rail franchises are owned and operated by state owned companies in Europe (Germany, Holland), so we're subsequently funding the public transport of other countries. For example, Arriva Trains Wales is run by Arriva, part of Deutsche Bahn and owned by the German Federal Government. They made a profit of £13.6 million in 2012, and there are many more examples. I guess these are the benefits of the 21st Century. The profits from our railways go to make other railways in Europe cheaper, jolly good.

I don't think this thread has a lot to do with NTFC ; by all means comment on Labours plan for Football. Unfortunately it merely gives those with political agendas to use it as a platform. Perhaps the Marquis can comment on the direction of this thread.

So who do you think fund the Tories ? That might explain why lots of big business don't pay their fare share of tax, but don't get chased for it. If Corporate tax fraud was tackled we would have enough money to spend on Education and the NHS.

Now your talking Bollox, the NHS is a basket case over run by lazy good for nothing managers and trust directors earning a fortune compared to hard working doctors and nurses and who put them their Labour.
The sooner it's privatised the better, it's just not sustainable in its present form.

Completely agree. My wife works for the NHS and some of the waste and bureaucracy she describes is unbelievable, added to which the sheer volume of malingerers who are off on 6 months full pay, come back for a few days and then disappear off for another 6 months and HR can do nothing about it as they have no teeth whatsoever.

I've nothing but respect for the front line staff and the incredible work they do for little reward, the problem isn't with them, it's with the tiers of superfluous, overpaid and ineffectual management that guzzle up the funds that should be going towards the care of patients. It's critical that the NHS remains free at source to all, but it needs a good dose of privatisation to prune out all the deadwood that's dragging a great institution down.

Back of the Net,  my wife too works for the NHS.
Yes a lot of them are run incorrectly, the nurses ,doctors ere are excellent and I only have praise for them.
The NHS are not in a bad state considering the way it is run. It is state run and the state don't have the funds to run it, people don't want to pay more tax but the continue to want everything provided for them.
Biggest problem with the NHS is the people of this country who continuously abuse it.

Genuine sit on the fence poster - good effort. Mind you anybody who votes green ....

That's  daft comment - you shud know better!

Again, I agree with all of that. For me, I think they need to franchise the running of services but cap any profits made as a percentage of budget, with any surplus reinvested in the service. Yes, some money would end up in people's pockets on this but the added corporate sensibilities that it would bring would get rid of many of the wasteful and inefficient practices currently in place and free up funds for where they are really needed, i.e. provision of front line services.

Lock this thread ffs, we dont need politics on here

Just about the proper way to deal with this barrack room political genius

The Majority of Doctors are overpaid too; Man04 is right about the NHS,  it is a complete basket case full of over paid Managers. The real heroes are the Nurses and some few of the Junior Doctors. The more money you put in the worse it gets so we put in more money in and so on...

Anybody who uses Southern Rail on a daily basis, knows that the sh1t that they have to put up with over the last 12 months, is totally unacceptable.
I work in South London, and I can struggle to recall when I had two consecutive days, when my scheduled train was not cancelled. The issue was, who closed the doors. Driver or Conductor. Personally I couldnt give a fu#k who closes them.
If the RMT were not on strike, then they were phoning in sick. Trains did not run, because there were no conductors, this meant that the knock on effect was, the drivers were in the wrong location, so their scheduled train could not run. Every day I would hear the station announcer at Victoria, say, "will the driver of whiskey delta blah blah, make himself known immediately. In other words, where the fu#k are you?
The words "this train has been cancelled, due to a temporary shortage of staff" are still ringing in my ears.
You get on one train, and sit there for twenty minutes, if you can find a seat, only to be told that this train is now cancelled. You know have to find another one. You and the hundreds of other people waiting in the concourse. Thats if they will allow you on. Twice at London Bridge, I have seen ticket barriers being closed, and trains being sent out empty, in order to prevent a rush of people. Thats after they give you ONE minutes notice, of what platform its arriving on.
I have been on trains that have just terminated at East Croydon, and according to the very embaressed conductors announcement, " the driver has informed me.."
I have even been on one train, when just south of Purley, it ground to a sudden halt. Sorry about the delay, said the driver, but we appear to be on the wrong track. We had to make very slow progress to the next set of points.
On a regular basis, my working day became about 15 hours. You have just got in, had something to eat, and a shower, and the alarms going off again.
I have ended up using the number 60 and 405 bus on a regular basis.
Southern rail better than British Rail?  You can kiss my @rse.
Rant over.

So was yours and I know you don't know better Tony so we will have to leave it at that!

I don't line the pockets of any of the news paper owners. I don't need telling what to think.

Intelligence, any lower than yours and I would live at the bottom of a pond.

Also 35% of Southern Rail is owned by Kelios, France's largest transport group. Again, the profits made essentially go to improving France's public transport and making it cheaper. Kelios used to own 45% of First TransPennine Express as well. Being in the EU has no bearing on this either, basically the results of franchising.

It costs me just over three grand a year, in train fares, just to get from Coulsdon to central London. I have no other option, due to congestion charging, and extortionate parking fees. Southern Rail know this, and once they have your money, they treat you like sh1t.
The train that was previously eight coaches, lets cut it to four. You should see the look on peoples faces, when it pulls up at Purley, and they realise that there is no way that they can get on board. It is full, sardine class as we call it. No room whatsoever.
I dont care who owns the franchise, I just want a train that runs on time, and I dont have to endure someones armpit or rucksack shoved in my face. The rules about transporting cattle are more lenient.
The situation is so bad, that Sadiq Khan, the Mayor of London, is considering taking action, to strip Southern of their franchise, and hand it to TFL.
And not before time. Southern Rail better than British Rail? You can kiss my @rse.

It makes a difference if the profits the franchise make are spent on improving transport systems in an entirely different country. Sorry to hear about your exploits, I'd rather commute to work on a segway than bother with the trains.

Dont start me off about segways or cyclists in London, that think they own the f***ing footpaths.  ;D

Probably cause they keep getting pushed off then road by men with ven.

No, having worked in London for a few years, I can confirm that the vast majority of cyclists there are either sociopaths or morons, either oblivious to the traffic around them or actively trying to be as awkward as possible. I lost count of the number of times I saw them almost cause a nasty accident through sheer belligerence or ignorance, on occasion you'd see two or three incidents a day.

I think my "favourite" encounter with a cyclist came when I was crossing the road near Cavendish Square (by the way, when I say crossing the road, I don't mean "chancing it when I saw a break in traffic", I mean "on a pedestrian crossing with a green man showing"). Suddenly, a cyclist came flying through the red light, missing me by inches. He was quite aggrieved by this and called me a twat. Suffice to say he got a strongly worded response, to which he took exception and started to mutter something over his shoulder at me as he pulled into traffic and straight into the path of not one but two double decker buses! I'll never forget the look on his face as they both banged their horns.... >:D