The Hotel End

5USport has agreed to purchase a major stake in Northampton Town Ventures Limited, who own the majority shareholding in Northampton Town Football Club

http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/breaking-chinese-company-5usport-purchases-major-stake-in-northampton-town-1-8025792

Anyone know anything about them?

Not a clue but the best news here is that it should shut Beds up!

WE'RE RICH!!!

Can't tell much from their website as it's all in chinese.
Seem to have links with John Terry and David Seaman so that could be 2 positions filled.

I think KT turned us into an attractive position for any investor. One thing for sure is in our current position we won't reach any higher than League 1. The statement has some encouraging sound bites and it'll be interesting to how the develops.

Funds have been increased to the playing budget?! Wow. Unexpected news.

Also very positive news that Kelvin will remain as chairman

welcome 5usport

Taken from their Website

Founded in 2008, Guangzhou is located in Guangzhou, and the layout of Hong Kong, Britain, Spain and Brazil, the world's five major regional, the formation of globalization, the United States, the United States, the United States, Resource Sharing and Advantage Support.

5U Sports is the predecessor of the European sports channel Eurosport operating company in China, with Eurosport high-quality content, to create the largest sports network. Through cooperation with Eurosport, the company not only gradually carry out content services, sports marketing, fan services, derivative products and other business, and began in-depth docking international sports resources.

Now, 5U sports has initially completed the construction of the whole industry chain of soccer athletes career, and complete the career value of each stage to build the necessary resources and business layout.

It's definitely exciting news but I think it's wise to be a bit cautious - depending on the figures involved we don't want to become a freak show/Harlem globetrotters like Notts county a few years ago. If we have an increase in playing budget I hope it's focussed on quality, proven lower league players and not big time Charlie's from higher up looking for a pay day. This news probably goes some way to explain the lack of gk and defensive signings in the last while.

This can only be good news.
Fair play to kelvin for acknowledging that outside investment was needed in order to progress.
If the new owners have the clubs interests at heart(and it seems they do) then it's a great deal for all parties.
The Chinese football market is huge and the little old cobblers have tapped into it thanks to kelvin making the club a sellable asset.
I know there's often scepticism regards foreign ownership but it seems these chaps seem decent enough on face value.
China's a big old country,I guess we will need to order a few more replica shirts!!

Told ya

Very positive and whilst it always pays to be cautious this sounds like exactly the sort of agreement needed to take the club forward. KT remaining as chairman is a huge plus too. Well done all. This club has come on miles in the past 18 months

Interesting news!

Certainly making the right noises in the statement there, nothing like the grand plans laid out by some of the more 'dodgy' owners we've seen in the lower leagues in recent times. Particularly like the line about there being a budget put together to sign and develop youngers players.

I'd guess it may mean we see a few young Chinese players come over to join our youth/development team. Can't do any harm I guess as long we keep trying to develop local talent too.

As has been said let's hope our recruitment is focussed on quality additions now rather than being seen as a last pay day for players on the way down.

Cautiously optimistic sums up how I felt when reading that

This will end in tears

Not sure what to make of this, one half of me is excited and the other is horrified!  ;D

They've said all the right things in the statement and it all seems to be done in the right manner.

I guess proof will be in the pudding.

For a club like us though, it's our only real option isn't it?

My immediate thoughts were

(https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-3043f85ed0eb53f4b93913921c4f828a)

This happens to others not us.
Excited but cautious. 
Appears all positive at the moment, as a Northamptonian I am waiting for the negatives (if any) to be revealed.

Exciting news.  This is the investment in the club news many of us have been wanting but, in truth, not expecting.  Hard information is lacking in the club statement but I am sure more will become known shortly.  

Key question for me is who's got the majority stake.

The new owners

They can't have any business sense if they chose to invest in us rather than Oxolona can they?

translated : https://www.pinterest.com/pin/320037117252628651/

I think, reading between the lines, that 5USport do.

Going on the basis that "Kelvin has agreed to stay on as chairman"

Hopefully two tiers, in the east stand.

Well this looks good, investmetn in the infrastructure, the squad and the youth team. I don't think we could ask for more. Lets see how it pans out.

It's exciting news but words of caution should be ushered.  These partnerships don't always end up as a success story.  My hope is that they are serious and not just using us as a test bed for how to run a football club.

i think KT staying on as chairman is the key - so there is at least one person who knows what he is doing in charge.

No need to be negative but we do need to be told the detail.  The club statement is very bland.

You'd hope the details will come out over the next few days. Jeremy Casey said on Twitter he is meeting the chairman this afternoon so hopefully some more information will come out then.

Didn't someone bang on about "the Chinese are coming" on another message board some years back?

China is the new Russia. That's where the money is.

There you go, 5USport have taken a 60% share in the club, but it isn't a takeover it's a partnership - NTFC just Tweeted.

That clears it up nicely.
 ;)

So they are effectively in control.. I'm now slightly concerned!

Who wants to be first to ask what the Trust are doing about it?

Presume that is where BedsCobb is right now.

Is that 60% of the club overall or 60% of the holding company that owns most of the shares?  As I believe there are still a number of other shareholders outside of 'Northampton Town Ventures Limited' who own small percentages of the club.  If it's only 60% of NTVL then what does that equat to in terms of the otherall ownership of the club?

Probably the same person who brought Oxford United fc up in this thread for no reason at all.

Well, whilst I would like to be positive and to be otherwise would by hypocritical by me since I have said larger investment is needed in the club I think a note of caution would be wise.  

We don't know anything of substance about the Chinese, how much is being invested in the club, how much was paid to KT & David Bower to acquire the reported 60% shareholding in the holding company (we will never know that figure but I assume KT & DB have made a handsome profit), what the plans are for the East Stand and the general infrastructure of the club, the playing side and so on. In fact, we know nothing.  Therefore, I hope the Trust directors have got their radar switched on and will be ready to ask the relevant questions.  

Not much on the internet about them. 

One site says that they have about 7 employees.

For what it is worth Vintage, I think they are the right sort of questions that need to be asked.

It is exciting and we should be cautiously optimistic, equally we shouldn't lose sight of the Cardoza era along with remembering the foreign owners that have come in and ruined numerous clubs.

The statement was well worded and sounds great - now we need some hard information.

Its 60% of NTVL according to the interview with KT
I would guess that NTVL own 85% as 60% of that would give them 51% and the majority. Complete guess though. Further guess is they will buy out the other 15% before completely buying out NTVL within a few years.

Thanks, I've just watched KTs interview and wasn't about to write that it looks like 60% of NTVL.  Would be interesting to know if this does take them to the magic 51% number.

Oh go on then. What are the Trust doing about this?

Agree Alistair Slowe. The right questions need to be asked and full answers obtained. All is very vague so far. I remain optimistic that KT has done a good deal for the club and not just himself and David Bower but the proof of the pudding etc. etc. Remember Leyton Orient and others such as Notts County.

I think the fact KT is staying as Chairman speaks volumes - If he was just after the money he would run wouldnt he?

Yes I think that is one definite huge plus.

I guess the concern could be if 5USport are the majority shareholder they can gradually flex their muscle and do what they want.

I thought 3 was the magic number?

Just looking at companies house as at the last return, July 2016, there appears to be 2,779,807 voting shares in the club of which NTVL own 2,102,958 = 75.65% of NTFC.

If 5USport have purchased 60% of NTVL they would own 45.39% of NTFC voting shares.

It is significant & good news that KT is staying on as Chairman. For how long may be another question to raise?   I think it is fair to comment that there is a worrying lack of detail behind today's announcement. We have, in effect, new owners and we know nothing abut them of importance and nothing about the plans for the club going forward.  We need this to make any assessment of the new situation.  

I think it is fair to say that we're all treading carefully with this one while being hopeful it brings a brighter future.

Words are cheap obviously but I like the fact it has all been fairly low key and they have talked about steady investment, steady progression. If you look back at a lot of these takeovers that have gone south quickly they often start with a bang and bold statements about Promotions and the Premier League etc.

As I said earlier, cautiously optimistic, time will tell I guess.

Interesting, so nothing to worry about as long as KT and 5USport get along.

Up to 7-1 for promotion now! :o

I understand the caution when people say we know next to nothing about them, but isn't that just part of the negotiations necessarily being secret? For myself, for now I'm content with the little bit of hope this has given me that we will not spend the next few years bouncing between leagues 1 and 2. Glass half full!

Re the breakdown of shares, I'm not sure it works like that.

They now own the majority of shares in NTVL who in turn own the majority of shares in NTFC, however you spin it they are the main player at the club now.

Unless I completely misunderstand it the shares that NTVL own in NTFC can only be attributed to NTVL not divided up amongst their shareholders. So they don't directly own any shares in NTFC but as stated they own the majority of shares in it's majority shareholder.

In essence is doesn't matter if that equates to 30% or 75% of NTFC they are in pole position to influence the decisions made.

I'm quite happy for us in the short term to establish ourselves as a L1 club, with an increased budget i'm sure this will be possible.

Our infrastructure isn't good enough to sustain the next level unless we are going to be bankrolled to the Premier League like a Bournemouth. Hopefully as the ground and infrastructure of the club improve we will have an increased playing budget to match.

That opens up a whole new line.......say we were to "do a Bournemouth", would the majority be pleased with that? I know its one thing to be playing in the Prem, attracting high earners like Wilshere, paying big money for signings. The flip side is £32 cheapest admission tickets, £550 cheapest season tickets (for only 19 home games instead of our 23) and so on.

For a little club to make it that high it must be a shock to the system for the fans who've just been used to lower league struggles......or do those fans get left behind and priced out as a new batch of glory hunters come along to claim the rich pickings?

A fair point, GPC.  We would need to know how Bournemouth fans feel to know the answer. Or maybe more clubs should follow the splendid example of Huddersfield in rewarding loyalty. 

Until today my take was that there was more danger over the coming 2-3 seasons of us being relegated back to League 2 than being promoted to the Championship.  Today's news may raise hopes for a better future but until we know more it is impossible to comment in any depth.  I would only add that a town with Northampton's population size and catchment area should be higher up the EFL ladder. We all know the underlying reasons we have have not done better.

I speak a little mandarin. I think this has something to do with John Joe O'Toole and a caravan.

I think a healthy dose of scepticism is always needed , whether it's from foreign investors or a supporter whose got very lucky on the lottery. Would be interested to know the success rate of foreign investment in league clubs, for every Venky is there a  Srivaddhanaprabha .  English football is big money now , so that is going to draw people in but it sounds like KT and the club have done this deal the right way. If he's made some money from it, good luck to him, as long as the club is safe.

Is "Expect the best, prepare for the worst" a Chinese proverb?

Does this mean we can get our Ricky back?

Hopefully one of the benefits is they are a sports company with seemingly some good links (John Terry, Neymar...) unlike a company who specialise in frozen chicken

From my very quick research I think they sell signed sports goods in China, so I don't think the links with John Terry and Neymar run deep here.

This looks like very good news, obviously us NTFC fans we aren't used to this kind of news so we are rightly cautious at the moment.

However, KT continuing as Chairman has to be good news. He is a very sensible man and I don't think he would put the club at risk after all the hard work he's put in along with his colleagues.   

Interesting if so...

My guess would be though that the situation will have changed since July 2016 such that 5USport have a 50%+ controlling stake. It'd be fairly unusual (though certainly not beyond the realms of possibility) for a party to make such an investment in a risky business without ensuring they get control of their investment as part of the deal via majority control of voting rights. As I said, not necessarily the case though.

The more I look the more worrying it gets?
Have these new investors actually got much in the way of ready cash?
A company that sub contracts signed memorabilia from icons based in London to sell to the Chinese market hardly screams high roller to me.
Does the company really turn over that much??
Why wouldn't you buy the club outright?
It's not as if KT has a controlling share now is it?
Earlier I was excited now I am very worried.
Never have I known a takeover where no one has actually asked the level of investment coming in or where it has come from.
Are the new owners likely to enlighten us.
We won't have long to find out

Anyone at Wembley with 15,000 hangers on should have a fair idea of what it's like being a Bournemouth fan or indeed what awaits us should we rise to the higher echelons!

Anyway, caution should prevail. Remember, this takeover, sorry, partnership needs sanctioning by the EFL...and the South Beds East Stand Development Consortium!  ;)

When I say no one has asked I meant no one at the staged press conference.
Obviously KT has
On the face of it things look good but il beleive it when I see quality signings and work going on to improve the stadium.

I've had 40 years of div 3/4 and div 1/2.
If someone wants to whack a fiver on the entrance price, finish the ground and bank roll us to the Championship that's OK with me. With all due respect to KT, he never proclaimed to hold the golden ticket. I hope he makes a few bob.
I like the fact they mention the university development.
Happy to take the positive line. If it was dodgy Dave on the other hand....
Having said that, we have it ingrained to accept any forthcoming disappointment.  ;D

Well, as a Trust board member the first thing I'm doing is having a shower having got back from Glastonbury just now and only just seeing the news ;D

In terms of what the Trust can actually do here, the only thing we can do is ask questions, both of Kelvin and the new investors.

As always, people are welcome to email in questions you think we should be asking to ntfc_trust@outlook.com

I would imagine our early steps would be to try and arrange an Open Forum, hopefully both with Kelvin and/or James Whiting, as well as the new consortium.

I think you'll find The EFL have already sanctioned it.

Stating the obvious it would be nice if the takeover/"partnership " was a bit more fleshed out in terms of details. I haven't read anywhere conclusively what they actually do (some on here have mentioned signed football memorabilia but I thought they were into development/education) what money they have and what their intentions are. Like others on here I am clutching on firmly to the fact that I trust KT and that he is staying on so he must have done his due diligence and is 100% happy with the deal.

http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/sport/football/chairman-thomas-says-northampton-town-is-in-the-safest-of-hands-1-8026842

More details from Kelvin.

And he's done it over a 7 month period, not on a whim. So, due diligence would certainly have been done.

I think it's right to be cautious but no need to be negative (or overly positive) just yet.

KT said the deal has been 7 months in the making which suggests a few things to me.
1) KT and his team would have carried out their due diligence on their new partners
2) It is reasonable to assume they have also spoke with other interested parties.

KT and his fellow investors may have seen some return on their investment by selling off the 60% but staying involved means that they absolutely need this partnership to be a better alternative to them continuing to go alone.

As for the question about why they wouldn't buy it outright who knows? Maybe they felt gaining a controlling stake while also retaining the knowledge of the business and industry which currently exists in the club. That would be sensible approach in my book.

As I said earlier in the thread I like what's been said thus far, it's low key, they're seemingly championing a sensible incremental approach to progressing the club.

Often these deals are announced to great fanfare, with ludicrous promises made and talk £x millions ready to be invested and it all goes to pot. Bournemouth (who others have mentioned) were taken over in League 2 and in many ways no one knew until they hit the championship.

I think Kelvin has done a superb job so far. I'm pleased he's staying on.
My fear is that with a reduced financial stake in the club, will he invest the same amount of time and effort as he has done? Will we see a reduction in the number of times he flies in from the States? I guess I'll find out on a cold wintery Tuesday night.

我們有奧托爾，約翰·喬奧奧托，我只是不認為你明白，他是愛丁堡的男人，他擁有一個大篷車，我們有約翰·喬·奧托勒

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

Forgive if google doesn't translate this exactly....

We have Otto, John Joao Otto, I just do not think you understand that he is Edinburgh man, he has a caravan, we have John Joe Ottle

Hmmmm...

I am incredibly optimistic as usual and think the only way is up... Well done KT.

I did try to tell ya though.....

They're from China

Just as I had foreseen, told all you c***s that KT wanted to sell all I got was abuse.
TFAMH don't make out you knew what was going on because you didn't  ;D

I knew about this and posted on here, KT has now got his return + , I don't pretend to know anything about the Chinese investors time will tell.

I tbought it was common knowledge that he was looking to sell or gain extra investment.  He was pretty clear when he bought the club that he could only finance it for the short term. 

Kelvin is our Chairman - he does not own the cobblers, everyone keeps mentioning his stake in the club - does anyone know he even has a decent stake in the club? As far as he is concerned he now has the same job with better tools to do it!

Everybody knew he was up for selling it if the price was right. He hardly hid that. He said it in two separate meetings with us all there 😀😀

I said several times a short while back and more recently that a deal was imminent. I even joked at the time that it was arriving "on a slow boat from *#¥@%". I even asked Beds why would KT spend his own money when he can spend someone else's soon.

Anybody else think it is very odd that KT's biggest critic and permanent East Stand whinger has not said a single word on this thread? Or have I missed it? Maybe he's p*ssed off that he'll have nothing to complain about now!!!

I hope this deal has been done with good intention on all sides, though I was a little concerned when I checked their website. The user traffic dipped from over 500 thousand in November 2016, to under 100 thousand in April of this year. Nothing conclusive in this, but in this current climate of using click-farms it could be(?) suggestive of unscrupulous practice.

It is also worth noting that the registrant for their website is Nexperian Holding Limited, and the registrar is HICHINA ZHICHENG TECHNOLOGY LTD; both of these names have been linked with scams and malpractice online.

So, I dunno. I'll be happier when we hear more in depth facts regarding our new owners.

Really good point. I've fallen into a trap there. That said, he must have invested something with his fellow consortium members, even if only time and know how. The consortium have recouped a significant part of their investment, so will their attention, and therefore Kelvin's attention, wane? I really hope not.
The same job, with better tools, but also with more shareholders to keep happy.

It was good to hear the logical statement that the club has to be a success in order for the Chinese investment to work through a saleable brand in China. This means they will give it a real go. But if it doesn't work, how long will they stick around, and how much would they care about who they sell their share on to?

I'm sounding unintentionally negative. I still think on the face of it that this is a good deal. UTC!

Interesting and concerning.

I tried some google detective work myself but couldn't find too much.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/crystal-weng-2a320065/?lipi=urn%3Ali%3Apage%3Ad_flagship3_search_srp_people%3BJMPwa4xXTTalSpmBiMsNhA%3D%3D&licu=urn%3Ali%3Acontrol%3Ad_flagship3_search_srp_people-search_srp_result

This is the only employee I could find on LinkedIn which kind of explains a little more what the company does....

I'm not sure how clearly it comes across in that article, but Icons.com, A1 Sporting Memorabilia are basically the same company, and a fairly small operation at that. So I'd suggest it's not actually that big a deal in financial terms.
We definitely need more background info.

Look at site http://www.5usport.com to get more info about the company.

"Founded in 2008, Guangzhou is located in Guangzhou, and the layout of Hong Kong, Britain, Spain and Brazil, the world's five major regional, the formation of globalization, the United States, the United States, the United States, Resource Sharing and Advantage Support.

5U Sports is the predecessor of the European sports channel Eurosport News in China's content operations company, with Eurosport News quality content, to create the largest sports network. Through cooperation with Eurosport News, the company not only gradually carry out content services, sports marketing, fan services, derivatives and other business, and began in-depth docking international sports resources.

Now, 5U sports has initially completed the construction of the whole industry chain of soccer athletes career, and complete the career value of each stage to build the necessary resources and business layout."

I could build a website with all of that on it - or anything else for that matter. By itself it proves nothing. Try reading my original post. Incidentally, I can find nothing directly linking our new owners to Eurosport News. Hopefully others will have more luck.

You would fully expect this to be covered by Look East?

Good luck to all those keyboard warriors furiously trying to dig up information regarding Chinese wealth...on the internet.

Just for the record. How extensively were the Trust consulted about the takeover? When did they find out about it?

Probably a good time to rally round the Trust tbf.

NTFC was an obvious choice for the Chinese investors when you look at our playing staff.

BLACK BEAN Bowditch
John MAPO'TOFU
Billy WONTONS
Sam SOYley
Marc RICEards

and of course,
Sam HOISINs

(Sorry.)

It was on ITV Look East Newa at 10pm news last night pictures and statement etc.

And your rationale is?

Sorry Evers, I think the joke was lost a little, Guangzhou wouldn't be on Look West would it mate!

What is there involvement with Icons.com though? I can't fully work it out. The language barrier certainly doesn't make it clear.

http://news.icons.com/tag/marka/

Marka appear to own this company.

Who will get the revenue from the millions of Cobblers shirts sold in China?

WHOOOSHH!!!  ;) ;D

We were not consulted and we found out yesterday morning.

Seems as KT is no longer the main owner of the club I would assume the trust are speaking to the new owners in order to get board representation again that was lost of part of the KT takeover.
Can the trust confirm this.
At least then we will know if the trust has any say in the club which it obviously hasn't at the moment.

Doesn't need anybody from the trust on the board.

The Trust is run by volunteers, most of us have full time jobs, we have arranged a meeting for later this week when the takeover will be discussed.

When are you going to volunteer some of your time for the benefit of the Trust and club, instead of volunteering others?

Been discussing our new ownership structure on twitter, and it looks like the share ownership is split up roughly as follows:

KT's group = 75% (of which 60% is owned by 5U).
Con Wilson family = ~20%
NTFC Trust = ~5%

So the Chinese seem to own 45% of the overall number of club shares at this point.

Still trying to figure out who 5USport are and what they do. Latest Chron story seems to say they have a few offices around the world and that they do a lot of work for Eurosport.

Yes, there appears to a lot of froth with our new Chinese friends. The question is which individual(s) own(s) this company and what are his/their financial resources?

Well they have now got a picture of Marc Richards on their website www.5usport.com and new content on Northampton Town Football Club [英国北安普顿足球俱乐部.

probably that, with the exception of about 3 or 4 top flight clubs, foreign ownership of clubs has been a bit of a disaster all round

Not so, Marquis.  I think that 14 of the Premier League clubs are foreign owned or controlled and these 14 clubs and their supporters would contest your comment.  You need to back up what you write with hard facts.  Of course, there are disasters such as Leyton Orient but generally foreign ownership has not in itself been a problem.

its fans ALL over the world, NBA star O'Neill is its loyal fans.
This is from the birthplace of Princess Diana (Northampton County, convenient transportation, 96 km south of London,
North of Britain's second largest city of Birmingham 78 kilometers east of Oxford County, west of Cambridge County) football club, has a complete youth training system,
Living in the British Isles and Europe.

rough google translation. The chinese do love Diana.

Becchetti- Orient
Cellino- Leeds
Duchatelet- Charlton
Al-Hasawi - Forest
Venky's- Blackburn
Carson Yeung- Birmingham
Notts County- Munto
Morecambe- Diego Lemos
Portsmouth- Various

meccanostand - plenty of UK controlled clubs have or have had ownership problems e.g. Blackpool and, not forgetting, NTFC!! All I am saying is that we need to be balanced in our comments on these matters. What Marquis wrote is inaccurate and misleading.

I read somewhere their worth is 1.15m

That doesn't sound much?

1,150,000 Chinese Yuan = £132,122   :o

I'm pretty sure they don't have much money. I get the impression that being involved with NTFC is quite a big deal for them.

I just typed in 5usport worth on Google.  There's a lot of different websites saying their worth. I think he websites are guessing, I'm not sure. I think it's more than that tho.

I think the answer is probably that we probably now have more cash than we had before, but it's not a life changing amount. It might just be an extra £200k put in per year - but that's £200k more than we had before.

How much is a NTFC share worth?

Just asked KT on Facebook, and he said "from what we've seen and been told,  yes they have alot of money"

I trust KT's due diligence and the EFL checks against the uninformed guesses from posters on here!
The proof will be a finished East Stand development and a competitive squad for League 1.

I think the real point is that it is impossible to know their true worth because we have no real idea what they actually do. Tenuous statements about links with Talksport in China, and a previous involvement with Eurosport News (I am yet to find any link between them and EN), doesn't really offer any validation.
There are three likely options, and I'm hoping for option 3! ;)

1, They are a company looking to expand their market appeal via this joint venture, but they have limited resources.

2, All is not well. They are another bunch of crooks working towards an ulterior motive, perhaps involving the moving of funds, or profiting from parcels of land that with a bit (a helluva lot) of work might still be made available for the benefit of the club. Thankfully this second option seems unlikely. The council would be very reluctant to assist in anything such as this, and alarms bells would be ringing across the county if any authority was seen to be helping the club prosper. I also happen to believe that Kelvin and the team have a lot more smarts than to get suckered like this.
                                        
3, Let's hope to God they have a behind the scenes backer, someone with serious financial clout. (The Chinese government anyone?)

What are you on about Einstein?

Oh dear ;D

very droll

The Google searches are generally the worth of the website and not the company from what I can tell.

This is my concern
A load of smoke and mirrors

IF they actually have money,how have they got it.
We've been taken over and yet no one can answer that.
It's a simple question.

Imo kelvin should be able to tell us a lot more

IF he actually knows what is going on.

Step outside the premier league and tell us of the success stories

just because you don't know it doesn't mean that nobody knows

f*** me. I'm pretty sure KT has a good idea what's going on. I'm also pretty sure he doesn't need to tell us anything if he doesn't want to. What difference does it make how they've got their money? Also, knowing how much they've got, what is that going to help with?

Letchworthcobbler you read it somewhere ? Considering this storey only broke yesterday, you must know where you read it. Other than that you're talking bullsh1t.

Did any body ask KT when he took over. Where he got the money from and how that money was earnt ?

If you can't answer that Neil I can't help you.
So far I haven't seen anyone actually state what the new owners business is.
A tenuous link to Eurosport
Selling a few signed football shirts.

You seem cock sure they are the real deal so how exactly have our new owners acquired their wealth?
KT also says we are in safe hands
So safe neither he or you can say what they do or how they have acquired their wealth.
That's not a tricky question is it?
I thought I'd ask seems as the trust have no idea and you seem to know best.

It does however means nobody is saying which given we still have the outstanding issue of a missing £10 million pounds that hasn't been resolved would with fair reason lead me to show concern.

We are still no nearer to clearing up the last crisis and now we've been taken over by new owners who seem shrouded in mystery....

so just because nobody has told you what the craic is then there must be something dodgy about it? if you had just completed a business deal which would increase your spending power in the sector in which you operated -  would you tell all sundry how much extra they could ask from you in future? or are you really that dopey that you would?

Think your point no 2 is entirely without merit and is a crass comment as best

Marquis - what you wrote is that outside of the top 3 or 4 foreign ownership has been a bit of a disaster.  That is simply not correct. There are plenty of foreign owned clubs which are financially stable e.g. Villa, Wolves, Derby, Sunderland, Hull, Cardiff, Fulham and QPR are all in the EFL.  They may not be currently enjoying great success on the playing side but none of them look like going bust.  There are many UK owned EFL clubs where the fans aren't best pleased with their owners.

 I really hope all turns out well.
All I'd say is that I've never known a press conference where the new buyers of a football club have decided not to field/answer any questions.
Did anyone ask the new investors any questions or was it stage managed so they didn't have to?
I don't do twitter so I can't ask Jeremy Casey.
Neil where are you when we need you .....

I take your point, but I don't think it unreasonable for new owners to be willing to point us in the direction of their proven business acumen. If Mercedes or Carlsberg had taken us over we'd be pretty sure of what their business was, and where much of their trade is focused. Given events in our recent history, it is only natural to be skeptical. Especially when there is no obvious focal point for the source of a (relative) large income stream. The proof will be in the pudding, and I suspect there will be a sizable budget available, but until such time as enlightening statements are made or actions unfold, a little skepticism is probably a healthy thing.  

Yes, but you spent two years insisting Cardoza was God, so your opinion isn't required. ;)

There is nothing wrong with asking questions. It's the automatic doom view though. Has KT done anything in his time here to suggest we can't trust him? Nope. Nothing. Why should this be different?

I've not got a clue how much money they've got or how they got there money, nor do I particularly care. As long as the club continues to be run well, then great.

I believe there is a follow up session with the CEO.

Important point here, they're not new buyers. They are investing. Happens a lot and those other investors at other clubs don't hold press conferences. If they were doing a full take over then I'd agree, not good enough. KT is still chairman.

i said that foreign ownership had been a bit of a disaster. you've just listed teams such as villa, sunderland, hull, cardiff, qpr as examples of "no it hasnt been" and to be honest with examples like those you've won me right over. no relegations there. no mad owners trying to change names or kit colours. no broken promises. i wonder if we asked fans of these clubs if they considered the current owners to be a success or a bit of a disaster

Well Neil I find it all a bit shambolic
The club called the press conference and the one fact I can be sure about is that yesterday it was reported that the new investors were the major shareholders owning 60% and today it turns out they aren't and now own 45%
I assume that won't change tomorrow!!
It just strikes me of being a bit two bob.

Like I say though I so hope it will take us to the next level and put us on the map.

Worth a read.  The next Bournemouth?

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jun/27/northampton-town-league-one-chinese-takeover

I thought they purchased 60% shareholding in NTVL (or whatever it's called?) who own 75% of the NTFC shares, yes? In which case they have a controlling vote over our major shareholders. Ergo, a takeover.

The guardian article seemed positive

A 60% share of 75% is 45% so no take over, if you look at it on a purely figures basis on the division of assets. I am not so concerned about their majority holding in NTVL and will remain so until KT stops being at the helm, that is the crunch for me.

It's going to take more than a simple maths equation to convince some on here that 45% is less than 51%.

But not necessarily the comments

You seem to have genuine concerns and feel there are too many questions that you don't have answers to. Why not email KT, see if he can give the answers you need?

Although a good chunk of the comments appear to be written but ill-informed retards, one of whom is disputing that we took 40,000 to Wembley on the grounds that according to the most recent census we only had a population of 36,000!

It's all a little confusing.  If you read KT's comments and watch his interview he did say that they have bought 60% of the NTVL and not 60% of the club however in my opinion it was wording deliberately in a way to make it seem like they had bought 60% of the club.

However when you look at it on a simple level, they have the majority stake in the company that has the majority stake in the football club.  So it looks to me like they have the overall power at the club.  It effectively take KT's voice away as a shareholder, although he retains it as the Chief Executive (or chairman, i forget which one he is).

Also to those thinking that they have committed to expanded the stadium in other area's than the East stand, again that's not exactly what KT said.  He said that they were committed to sorting the East stand and looking into other area's, which can mean anything, it doesn't necessarily mean that they will suddenly put extra tiers on the north and south stand.

I think that may have been an attempted funny.
Some guy came back to declare Northampton the biggest town in Europe. The closest one with a larger population is only about 15 miles south. 😆

Just for clarification of figures I present the following.....

It is like a minefield whenever I start looking into things on Companies House and other sites!!

So, Northampton Town Ventures Limited owned 2,102,958 of the clubs 2,792,251 shares (75.314% of the total)

Northampton Town Ventures share capital was split three ways, 12.5% owned by David Bower, 22.5% owned by Kelvin Thomas, and the remaining 65% owned by a company called Fantastical Limited.

Fantastical Limited is a dormant company which has two directors......Kelvin Thomas and David Bower! David Bower however owns the ONE share in this company. Ergo David Bower owned directly or indirectly 77.5% of NTV.

NTFC Supporters Limited (The Trust) owned 2.756% of the shares in the club.

With a 60% buyout of NTV's shares, 5USport now own (in effect) 1,261,775 shares in the club.....or 45.19%

Here's an idea.  How about those that are concerned ask questions from the people that can actually answer them.

Or perhaps let things play out for a short while and see what happens.  Im cautiously optimistic at the moment.  Everyone knew KT was going to do this at some stage in fact quite a few had been calling for him to find investment to get things moving.  KT and the other board members have so far gone about business in the right way and the improvements have been there for all to see.  I'm pretty confident this isn't a decision he has taken lightly so let's see what happens.

It will soon become evident how much of a difference the new investment is making or not.

One thing I do agree with.  It did stand out for me just how out of the loop supporters were in the decision and the fact that the trust hear things when we do.  Can't be right that the main support group have such limited voice and a real aim should be made to get someone back on the board even if the influence is limited.

Agree with all of that....it is really a case of "wait and see"........

I added a line into my shareholders post above.....to show that the Trust only owns 2.756% of the shares in the club......unfortunately in the business world that's nowhere near enough to have a voice!

I'm glad however that the statement from 5USport at least mentioned the strong fanbase........fans do count for something it seems!

Personally I think your last paragraph is a good thing. These aren't coming in and throwing around wild statements about 5 year goals, we are gonna do this, we are gonna do that etc. It all seems very sensible and slowly slowly does it.

“The man who moves a mountain begins by carrying away small stones.” - Confucius

+

No i didn't and I still think your comment was crass.

Thanks GPC; your analysis seems pretty accurate. I also like your summary ....or 45.19% which at least two posters seem to have a mathematical block with. Now off to purchase a EuroMillions ticket to win the £85m !!

Grange, would you mind clarifying something for me, and for all of those experts who believe shareholdings are easily understood, and anything other than a convoluted minefield: 5USport are almost certainly considered a Non-UK Legal Entity, yes? So am I right in assuming it will only be their (as yet unnamed) majority shareholder who will appear on the PSC register for NTV? And then, assuming football clubs operate in the same vein as everyone else(?), how are the (football) club's shares divided up? Do individual shareholders still require 25% to be considered PSC?

Just to clarify, in this situation would the Non-UK Legal Entity not have complete control over those shares that fall under the NTV banner? It's been over twenty years since I last had experience of anything like this, so I may be off centre. All I do know is, it never used to be as cut-and-dry as some are now claiming.
Cheers for any answers you can supply, mate!

Having read that article its clear that Kelvin believes the money is there to push the club to the next level, despite what many on here think.

 “There is money available and we’ve been talking about our playing budget but we’re not going to say how much because all of a sudden wage demand go up, etc,” says Thomas.

“We’ve got some targets in mind but we have to be careful that we don’t rush out and start spending a bunch of money on players. They’ve still got to be the right player. We probably expect a centre-half here and there and another good goalkeeper but I think our squad is already good. This investment just give us a little bit more flexibility in some of our decisions.”

That's strange, EFL only officially sanctioned this afternoon and on offy site 12 mins ago...I think you'll find!  ;)

Now, Beds...send me a sign!  ;D

1. What exactly is the 'next level'?

2. Who is Neil?

Am i right in saying that going on how the shareholding appears to be carved up, 5USport will effectively have 75% of the voting power at the club?

If they own 60% of NTV and that company owns 75% of the shares in NTFC then they effectively control the voting rights of that 75%?

Also it will be interesting to know who's shares they bought if the make up of NTV is as below. You would assume that they purchased Fantastical Ltd however that would give them 65% and not 60%.  ???

I can understand why some are concerned about how vague things are... It's been the best part of a day since the deal was done.

45% is less than 51% but is more than 30% and 25%

 can you clarify above - thks

Do you honestly expect us to get anymore clarification?  I don't.  Things are often very vague in business leading to people second guessing.  The powers that be at the club won't have any interest in confirming anymore details as they wouldn't see it to be of anyone's business.

Often at the top level of football it's clear who owns what in s football club but the lower you go down the pyramid the more secretive things seem to be.

Secrecy is fine if positive things start to appear such as some badly needed redevelopment etc, its just the secrecy surrounding continuous nothingness that wears you down ;D

I missed the announcement a few hours ago, the EFL have sanctioned the takeover.

9/20ths is less that 51/100ths, but is more that 30/100 and 1/4.

I know all that but what is Lodges point without having to
to revisit previous posts. I find cryptic comments often misleading.

To be fair Evers you find most posts misleading  ;D

Not at all. And I couldn't give a flying fcuk. I go and watch football for a release from all the mundane things that life can throw at me.

That's why I am utterly confused why people live their sorry lives out on here, comparing dick sizes and shouting the odds about something that is not only out of their control. But also has sweet FA to do with them.

I wear the same shoes as you with this regard - but for some, Northampton Town is more than just the experience on game day, and I completely respect that. We all share a passion for the game and our club - some people a little more than others.

This is a great discussion board to allow discussions on all things NTFC - if people want to 'compare dick sizes' or chatter on things out of their control, I say go for it!

There's a mute or block function on here if you don't want to see posts from certain members isn't there?

.

Like this one ☝️

And you are an administrator for the forum?  The whole point of this forum is to discuss all things about our football club.  If you don't want to partake in a conversation then don't, why criticise someone for discussing something that interests them?  Some people care about who owns the club.  Others don't care until things blow up in our faces and then act shocked about what's happened.

There are plenty of topics on here that I don't even bother commenting on or reading as they don't interest me, I don't go in and complain that people are wasting their time and throw around insults.

We can't really control who the manager is, or what formation he plays, what tactics he employs or what players he signs, sells and releases.
We can't control the price of the hotdogs, the price and range of real ales in Carrs Bar, the colour of the strips or the colour of the exit gates.

Shall we just stop discussing everything???  ???

KARL GOT THE GATE COLOURS CHANGED. FACT.

Can't he get the east stand built.

He's not a miracle worker mate.

Source?

That appears to be what he wants us to do.  Last person to leave the forum please turn the lights off.

 ;D

Cherry Orchard High School...

"Dick waving"? Is that the same as coming on here and repeatedly banging on about having been ITK and having dropped hints about the takeover for months? "Sorry lives"? Is this akin to someone 'baiting' Beds into continuing with his rants over on the redevelopment thread?
I mean, this is after all a football forum, so as much as it may be pleasing to make condescending statements, I don't think it's completely unreasonable for fans of NTFC to want to know if the fella who has the a majority stake in running their club has a Chinese passport, is it?

If you look back, you will see that I said the moment anything is announced, I'm going to be the first to say I already knew. It's easier to take the pi$$, than camp on here blowing smoke up your own and others @rses.

Imagine a world where people are given a chance to prove their worth, before all the barrack room lawyers lay into them. If you or anybody else honestly think you have a chance in hell of unraveling anything, fill ya boots. As for me. I think some of you spend very little time in the circles these guys operate in, so do your best to second guess what's going on. Normally with virtually no idea what you're saying. If you and a few others want to spend your time worrying about the Cobblers, then go for it. But next time someone dies, or some maniac ploughs through a group of innocent people, try to remember it's normally the mouthy ones who insist on how it puts everything into perspective. That's what I'm trying to inject into the conversation, a bit of perspective. The deal is done and dusted. We are either strapped in for a fantastic ride. Going to stay the same. Or the club is doomed. A thousand visits to various websites, or companies house won't get you anywhere.

I'm up for giving a blind shot and just getting behind the lads. I'll leave a handful of you to continue the high brow detective work. I look forward to seeing your report on my desk when you've finished  ;D ;D

As for baiting Beds. I have known him for years. I'll leave it at that, as I can imagine his wry smile at the very thought 😀

And yet there you are accusing others of dick waving. Irony.  ;) ;D

All of the things you mention, are highly unlikely to bother anyone, and are typical football banter/fodder. But the usual tone these days is far more sinister, with virtually nothing off limits. Constant talk of people's integrity and second guessing their intentions with no attempt to dress it up as pure conjecture is simply wrong. This is a football forum. Not some unofficial body set up to scrutinise every move people at the club make, and offer up an unsolicited opinion on it. And all done safe in the knowledge that they either won't, or can't defend themselves.

I thought you'd struggle with that. Stick to character assassination Judge Judy...

You might as well address this message to your self. :-*

I neither claimed to have inside knowledge of a takeover or jumped on the 'let's keep winding Beds up' bandwagon, so your post makes little sense...much like a majority of your posts.  :-*

I know exactly what you were trying to say, however... ;)

Character assassination? I merely questioned the business interests and identity of our current owner(s), whereas yourself: " They live their sorry lives on here, comparing dick sizes and shouting odds". Uhm? Pot. Kettle. Black.

As for: "The deal is done and dusted. We are either strapped in for a fantastic ride. Going to stay the same. Or the club is doomed." On this we agree. However, I remain quietly optimistic with regards the takeover. Primarily because both Kelvin and David Bower have always conducted their business in a sound manner. I trust them to act in the best interests of NTFC, and of course themselves. Mind you, in August, when I'm sitting in a bar in Portugal talking to other Brits abroad, there is a certain conversation I could do without:

"So, where are you from?"

"Northampton."

"Ooh... Do you follow the football club? Had a few problems over the last couple of years, right? Lost ten million quid."

"Yes... and we didn't lose it mate. The robbing **** of a chairman ripped the club off."

"Really? Did he get done for it?"

"Not yet, no. Fingers crossed though, eh? Still, at least he got ousted from the club."

"Well, that's good news at least. ...So, who owns the club now, then?"

"Dunno, mate. No idea. They could be Chinese."

Just tell them what's been stated on the official site. I can't imagine you'll disappoint them too much.

I neither worry about it, or invest much time in pondering all the eventualities. It sours the reason I watch the game, if I dilute the experience with a load of politics. I am astounded by the amount of people who hanker after a bit of simple fun, yet polite their minds with stuff that does them no favours. I can't help but think, that a lot of people have forgotten how to enjoy the Cobbs for what they are.

I take your point, and barring the couple of real close-call disasters through our (fairly) recent history, I've always used football as a means to unwind from the real world. And, to be fair, I'm actually a lot more excited about the coming season than I had been prior to the takeover.

Please to hear that Jolly. Me too.

Agreed but not quite all...unlike yours  :-* Your anything but a Jolly ::)

Ouch! You wound me with your harsh words and fine intellect!  ;D

I'm always excited for the start of a season and guess what? If honest I'm actually not too bothered if we are successful or not. Obviously I took the season before last lived  it and enjoyed it.
But.
I'll still go to as many games next season as in the previous. It is my escapism, my "other world"
Partner goes back to his dad's once a month I go to football, home or away depending on how fixtures fall it's that simple. Yes I can tell good players from bad, bad managers from good, terrible referees from not too bad ones, I cannot however tell good business decisions from bad ones and if I could I'd think myself just a little sad tbh.
So Tell you want everyone it's football pure and simple, not rocket science.
Enjoy the ride!

🤡

So, reading between the lines of The Edinburgh interview, the enhanced budget would put us in 'the top half of the table', but not so much that we can afford to spend 100 of thousands of pounds on transfers, to try and temper expectations. Not exactly a Notts County situation, but maybe an additional player or two on top of the original targets. Most important will be investment into the Stadium, so we can increase revenue for later years going forward as well.

I'd be happy if we filled all the slots we originally targeted maybe with one or two players of higher quality than we originally looked at. Save any 'extra' budget for January where we can make a judgement call to spend if we are challenging for the play-offs (or struggling at the bottom) or to keep it in the bank for the following season if we are comfortably mid-table.

That and to see progress on the ground obviously!

It would be nice to have a bit more info now, everyone seems to be scratching round a bit, even the Chron story on 5USport told us nothing new.

Early days I guess.....not that early for a Cobblers coach to be heading to China though.

A few days have passed and no one is any the wiser about what they do,what the level of funding is and any firm plans for the future.
Nothing to worry about there then.

It's all very quiet.

You worry too much!

Trust statement on investment from 5USport:

Northampton Town Supporters' Trust is excited to hear further details in the coming weeks from 5USport following the announcement of their investment in Northampton Town Football Club.

We very much look forward to finding out more about the company, and we would like to extend an early invitation both to Tom Auyeung and Oliver Zheng of 5USport, as well as to Kelvin Thomas and other directors, to attend an Open Forum arranged by the Trust and give fans the opportunity to discover their plans for our club moving forward.

The deal came as a surprise to us all, but we were thrilled to hear the comments from 5USport highlighting our fan base as a key part of the attraction of their investment. We are sure as the season progresses 5USport will witness first hand what a special club we are thanks to our loyal and passionate fans.

The Cobblers' fan base has a long history of backing their club to the hilt, demonstrated most by the formation of this Supporters' Trust back in 1992, the first of its kind and a model followed across the world.

In the future dealings we hope to have with 5USport, the Trust aims to impress on them the importance in English football of the supporter movement, and - as we always have done with club owners - hope to convince them of the benefits of having a supporters' elected representative on the board of the football club.

We are eagerly anticipating the opportunity to meet with 5USport as soon as possible, and we wish both the club's new partners, as well as Kelvin Thomas, David Bower, Mike Wailing and James Whiting, the best of luck in continuing the strides forward we have made both on and off the pitch in the last two years.

Very good statement
Let's hope the invitation for a forum is accepted and a bit more clarity will be shed upon the surprise events.

Do we need more info though at this stage? Should the people running the club not just be judged on how they do that rather than what they could do, might do etc? All the takeovers that go bad seem to start with grand statements and they sell the dream to the fans, then it all goes to s***

Not many clubs would have been able to keep the discussions under wraps like Thomas & co did during these negotiations. We should perhaps be grateful that our club is being run in what appears to be a very professional manner, long may that continue

Give it some time folks!! Nothing was going to happen overnight!!

Good statement by the Trust too!

Good stuff by the Trust, well done guys.

Is anyone else a bit apprehensive about how we will end up?
We have never had any substantial funding, we have never been one of the big hitters in any world apart from our four seasons when we visited the top two divisions.
We have bounced between the third and fourth tiers, been the butt of jokes, most of them self inflicting/depreciating, survived on hand outs, fixed re-elections votes and whatever else.  Expecting very little and not surprised when we haven't achieved it.
We are our own little club, half way up the M1 causing no harm to anyone, a club that nobody really takes any heed of with gentle rivalry (apart from P@@H), with the majority of supporters either knowing each other personally or are on nodding terms at both home and away fixtures where it's invariably the same old faces.

What happens if this does project us into the big time? 
When Anglia and ATV take notice and put us to the top of their running order?
When fans that have previously been supporters of a club from the two big cities (Brum and the Smoke) suddenly remember that their home town has a football club and we are attracting 15k+ crowds (I know we haven't the capacity just yet) and surviving in the nose bleed altitudes of the Championship and maybe even the Premier League?
When we are able to attract and purchase up and coming England centre backs from the PL Champions?
I know that there are a lot of Bournemouth fans who, although they are currently enjoying the delights of the PL, are wishing for the less heady days when they were in a similar position to us. They know that they can never return.

Yes, I am excited by the potential of having the Chinese organisation join us but where are we going, where will our 'little' club be in 5, 10 or even 20 years?
We are about to sail into uncharted waters that may provide many storms and pitfalls along the way. How will those be handled?
Especially considering the revised expectations that will inevitably come from both ourselves and those who join us from now?  
We have already had examples of players/agents who wouldn't have touched us with a barge pole previously are now contacting us to offer themselves or their players!

Thankfully, the level of expectation appears to have been fairly muted on here, or is that because of the current uncertainty?
When we are provided with a fuller picture, what happens then?

Yes, I am excited but just a bit apprehensive about where our 'little' club is going and what will it morph into?
Will it be a monster or a gentle improvement of what we have already?

Anyone else have a similar amount of trepidation during these early times?
  

It's the unknown isn't it?

How much is it all worth? It's been initially played up and bigged up as a big deal and then over the past days it has gradually been talked down.

I have a lot of family down in Bournemouth and when I was down there a couple of weeks ago it was noticeable how many kids / adults were wearing AFCB shirts and most of the town are jumping on the bandwagon. A few years back you struggled to see anything other than top flight shirts and I think their attendances were on a par with ours.

If we were to rise up the leagues, an increase in standard would result in more expensive away tickets (in the championship especially), at least 5 weekends per season without fixtures due to the international break (so more midweek night games), no more 1st or 2nd round games in the FA cup and a gradual loss of connection between the fans and the club.

After our previous money issues and mismanagement, I'd be quite content for us to be a well established League 1 club

Agree 100% neil

Well written too and I like the direct invitation to Directors and 5USport to attend the meeting. I hope Iesteyn and Insider  will try attend this planned meeting.

Too much (post 70's) supporting history to think we will ever be 'big time', so it hasn't really resonated with me without further information. Maybe the scars of Cardoza too, although KT clearly operates in a different league. When we start to see the impact of the deal, I'm sure there'll be a lot more excitement in the air.

I would LOVE it if we got some success, bought or otherwise. I'm a proud Northamptonian and it'd be good to share some of the limelight with the Saints. I'd love a better ground and some big atmospheric Sixfields nights. The Carr and Boothroyd seasons were amazing. It'd be good to do it a little higher up.
It'll probably go t*ts up in the end, as football clubs generally do but let's have some exciting times in the process.

People will still moan about the prices, the over priced food and the passenger playing in midfield but that will never change.
We'll never be a footballing hotbed but I'm sure we could sustain a decent sized crowd with the right ground and right product on offer. 

Great post, we've hopefully got some cash let spend it and have some success, what kind of moron wants us to stay in L1 forever ? Just don't get it.

So you and the rest of your bellend mates can shout them down again?

It's a long way and if they've got the driver we had for Newcastle then it will take a long time

Wasn't THAT Wilder season any good then???!!!

And Beds too. He's been incredibly anonymous lately!!

Keep your feet on the ground chaps...after all, there is the small chance that we'll play absolute s***e this season and get relegated!



* Did I say small? Meant to say; every

I would hardly describe Boothroyds time here as amazing.

.................and Boothroyd seasons were amazing...............................and the passenger playing in midfield but that will never change.

Are you sure about these two comments particularly the 1st effort. As for the passenger at least give the man credit for 7/8 goals and 13 assists. Probably why we were never quite in serious relegation trouble.

I didnt shout Iestyn down far from it. If only you and the other bell end mates turned up at that meeting we would have exposed DC there and then ::)

No is the short answer! The rest of your paragraph sums up exactly why we need a change and serious investment as it's been lacking for far too long for a Town of this size.
Nothing stays the same and if you don't move with the times you get left behind, now is not the time to naval gaze and feel all melancholy about standing with 40 others at a freezing Hartlepool for example.
Money rules football and it has changed it beyond all recognition. Give me a solid Championship side in a stadium that's not an embarrassment, anywhere from 8-15,000 fans each week (e.g. Villa or Burton) over the same old tin pot crap we've been served almost our entire lives.
The stadium situation has always been our achilles heel both the CG and Sixfields so hopefully our new partners will finally address this and move us away from the bargain basement.

you sound like you've had a promise from a liar stop being so negative. You won't be moaning and bitching if all goes well and end up like Burton or Brentford

Not intended to be negative and it shouldn't be read as such. 
It's just an expression of my emotion as we are about to go through a door into an environment that we have never entered before and what will we find and experience.
I am excited and hope that it will be a land of milk and honey and we are playing consistently at a level and with the facilities and support to sustain that.
We have all done our time trudging around the third and fourth, I am looking forward to doing the same in the higher echelons of football.  ;)

 What worries me, is that I think you are right.

After an indifferent set of results in August/ September 2015, LLDLWWDD, including 2 home defeats on the trot,  I'd have said we were a fair bet to lose our League status. Hang about, what happened in THAT season? Nobody knows fcuk all so get rid of the negativity.

Here's a reminder!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_Northampton_Town_F.C._season

Seems to me that Deepcut has been in a poor but cosy comfort zone for far too long.  It is often said that people don't like change but in football if you stand still you soon start going backwards. 

Before this week I was thinking that we will continue to be a yo yo club between Leagues 1 & 2, with more of the latter.  Whilst it remains as clear as mud what the Chinese are actually bringing to the table we should know some of the answers soon enough in the scope of the redevelopment and the remaining players JED signs.  As Exiled said our poor stadium (County Ground & Sixfields) has for generations been our achilles heel and that has to change if we are ever to move up the football ladder.  The arrival of the Chinese brings a glimmer of hope. It remains very important that KT remains at the helm for longer than he may have planned since I imagine that 5USport know as much about football club ownership in England as I do Cantonese.

I don't see what the issue is. As I have said, it will be what it will be. We could well be staring down the barrel of a gun if KT has merely consolidated any losses, or potential losses and settled for a nicely paid directors role. If he has, he will spend the majority of his time hiding behind the new owners, blaming them for no momentum. Or... It could be fantastic. In the absence of any of the mouths on here putting their money where their mouths are, we have what we have. Even if I won the euro millions, I wouldn't invest a penny more than I do already into the cobblers. Purely because you lot have taught me no matter how much good you do, you're totally fcuked the moment you stop spunking your own cash on a bunch of overly entitled *^+%$   ;D ;D ;D

For me the most amusing part is all the melancholic claptrap about how hard done by we are. Does all perspective go out the window once some of you log on to here  ;D

Am I alone in having mixed feelings on this.

The only thing I would do on the unlikely windfall of several millions is ensure I bought myself a seat on the board >:D Tel has summed some of us up for what we are a bunch of windbags happy to spend other peoples money , for ever moaning & always taking the negative view point. Good realistic post by Tel tho'.

That is all very well but you are putting cart before horse; so without a serious investor(until now) with good intentions we have had to just amble along hoping that a Dave Bowen or Chris Wilder can hack together a decent side. Now the picture has changed with a potential if slightly mysterious investor; so now we stand on the brink of exciting times - maybe!  If we have made it to the top in previous years then there is some hope now we can achieve that again.
There is nothing wrong with your premise on where we should be but have lacked the type of investment. You talk a big story as if we (or you) have the millions to take us forward.

Jesus. Some people do like to rewrite history. :o

Of course he wants to deflect the attention Jolly. Any other reasonable human being, not the internet warrior he is, would still be riddled with embarrassment at how he happily wriggled on the end of Cardoza's line throwing childish abuse at anyone willing to say anything negative about the theiving toe rag leader he adored.
And still he spends the vast amount of his time on here writing judgmental posts on other contributors rather than giving an opinion.
A truly A1 A-hole.

This comes to the crux of it Evers and why we think so differently.

Why the hell would you support a football team to be Realistic? That's what you're insinuating, that good old, play it down the middle, sense of all reason and occasion utter tripe, Tel is right to suggest we should be realistic, happy in rags. Well politely Fuck You both!

Millions upon millions of fans spend other peoples money every day, it's fun, lets try it. Having a shit stadium and a once every decade side to shout about is getting a little tiresome.

I like your riposte ;D - perhaps with this new investment we can begin to move on more purposely.

You're going to have to point out to me where I said that. Or I'm going to assume it's another one of your sweary hard b@stard post  ;D

Many referrals to 'spending other peoples money' should read  'people' should sort out the club they voluntarily  took over as its losing vast sums of money that we will never get to spend.

Well spotted  ;D I knew who I meant. That guy at Sheffield. Old age...

Beds, I'd swap to a CD if I were you as the record you are playing keeps getting stuck at same(totally unsupported by facts) point.

I expect that  to this if JED has a poor start he will be gone.

Beds, you have already devoted a separate thread about this some week ago, so give this subject a rest & give JED a chance.  Optimism is needed rather than negativity at this time in the football cycle.

Apologies to Beds, I meant Defender

 ;D Come on Tel, you know your the voice of reason!

All I'm saying is the game has now changed. You have said yourself that football is a release from reality, and so it should be. Reality is fucking dull. Sport is about winning and not realistic expectations.

Our new investors have come to spend their money, not mine, not yours, so we can now drop the bollocks manta of "spending other peoples money" and get on with the job of spending it for them.

Bollox to all of the softly softly crap, Manwork and Exiled have convinced me.
Lets enjoy the experience, help them spend their money, don't worry about any consequences and welcome all the new players and supporters that we will attract (when we have the capacity to accommodate them).
We only live once, Europe here we come, lets hang on and enjoy the ride...

 ;D I prefer to think of it as sitting on the fence.

Be careful. People get run over in the middle of the road.

I see for circa £3k per person, they are organising a trip to the midlands from China to see cars and football around the 21st Feb 2018. Possibly taking in the Oxalona match.

http://www.5usport.com/news/show?id=72

Interesting picture of MUFC, with Towns badge...This was posted on the 5USport site 29/12/2017..

Read into it what you like..

They basically selling travel packages.

Looks to me like we are merging with Silverstone

Looks like it’s the Carabao Cup final that will be part of the package.

It's all Chinese to me...literally!

Understood the Coventry Car Museum!  :o

From my limited knowledge of the Chinese language we have been taken over by the Coventry car museum

An English translation link on the site would be helpful.
Deliberate omission?

If the quality of the website is anything to go by then God help us

You don't fancy putting in for the Assistant Chairman's position they are advertising for then!

There's no Chinese language version of the club website.

Oh I see.
Without one there isn't the other.
That absolutist mantra shining through again.

Have the Trust found out anything more about our owners/investors than those of us on here?

No but I dare say a delegation led by roger will be on the first plane to China for forthright discussions regards the current situation and will be reporting back to us upon their return ::) ;D

Its time for the club to come out and be more transparent about who the Fu#k really owns us. KT is a front man for somebody, The Chinese are also a dodgy sounded mob and who probably already owns a football club elsewhere but front it out with 5Usport as a company name..

I am getting very concerned that there doesn't seem to be any direction to the club now. we are in the sh;t league wise and a few £ chucked at it wont do a jot.

I can see NTFC go to the wall in the not to distant future if this is not addressed.

Happy New Year Cobblers!

Not really, no. When they first took over the Trust invited the Chinese owners to come to an Open Forum or meeting, but we were told that their English wasn't too great.

I'm going to push for us to extend that invite once again when we meet again soon.

So it begs the question? what do they know about Northampton Town and league one football. Fu'k all i say.. this lot are a front and should be looked into. something is not right.

Thanks for the update, maybe KT can shed some light on who they really are if that is the case.

Although as much as I like KT, I am starting to wonder if he actually wants anyone to know what is going on at the club regarding the Chinese.

I've spoken to them a couple of times and they are really nice people.

There are people called translators and you would think the first thing 5USport would do was employ one. It makes you wonder how they communicate with KT.  In other words, there is no valid excuse for not responding positively to the Trust's invitation.

The longer the silence and the evasion of the Trust and supporters generally the more nagging become the doubts.  If nothing can be found out about our owners then that in itself raises questions. I doubt that the same applies to most other Chinese companies allowed to carry on business outside of China. I know you need Chinese Government approval to do this.

Who holds the fa golden share
KT or the Chinese?

KT is a front man... he doesn't have the ££...

Interesting posts, but I would suggest that on a £3K trip to the UK for a tour of a few cars a footie match its not exactly going to make much money for 5USPORT. They are not likely to fill a A380 from Guangzhou to Heathrow on China Southern, be lucky if they sell 20. The dates are just after the end of Chinese New Year, so for taking holidays, not many can do this..

Unless they are bringing over additional potential investors and/or are selling shares to small investors back in China.

Having worked in China on and off for the last 15 years, I know they dont give money away without an end goal for a large return.


When this investment was first announced I was in China and had some local friends check them out online, other that the web pages you see online, there is nothing else on any of the other Chinese social media like weibo wechat and QQ.

I just dont see what the interest in us is..

Hope to be proved wrong and this is our lowest point this season, new faces come in and we move up the table to safety, building for a play off push next season.

All very concerning.. my view is that there is money available but it’s coming from another source, my guess is that the people behind this own another club in the uk which I believe you can’t have an interest in another abit like Everton...

All very dodgy and this just somes up why I am massively falling out of love with the club and football in general.

I think you are clutching at straws if you think these people are mega rich and own other clubs

Since they 'took over' there has almost zero change and with us sinking down and down you would think we would have had players lined up

Also the fact that we signed Dean Bowditch about 3 days before the take over announcement says it all to me

KT OUT !!!!!!

Take your money and F OFF

Couldn't agree more, he's sold us down the river for his own personal greed, you've got your money now do one.

Even the biggest organisations struggle with the translation thing. I heard a story about when many years ago Coca Cola launched in China. They decided to run with their old slogan “Coke Adds Life”. It was felt this would appeal to the Chinese liking for alternative medicine etc, and would be a winner. However, instead of getting someone fluent to translate, the marketing department did it themselves out of a book. The resulting posters and other marketing paraphernalia caused much confusion locally. Apparently their literal translation read “Coke Brings Your Ancestors Back From The Dead”. Take caution KT.

A statement of intent is a statement of intent in any language.
All we get is the mouth peice claiming we are unworthy of much or any investment.

I certainly don't want to be jumping on any bandwagon, but, I would like to have some visibility of our 'investors'

Did you ask for a telescope for Christmas?

Very droll, I'm sure you get the gist though.

Invite them to a Trust held football quiz at Carr's Bar. Should answer your question!

;D

What do they need to know?  ???

Have a plan and a structure in place. you cant tell me that the signings that have been made have worked out on any level... JED signed 35 midfielders but didn't bother with bring in a new centre forward or 2 when both Rico and Revs both failed the season before.... This should have been stopped at the top!



Fail to plan... plan to fail.

Did anyone ask?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srpML5VwagM

Someone said on the Rotherham match thread that the relationship with 5U Sport is not in a good place...  ???

If we were in the play offs they wouldn't be saying that.

I wouldn't worry.

I do wonder about their levels of support and desire to still be involved should we go down...how much will they be willing to throw in / pay off Jimmy if the worst happens?

They would if they joined up the dots......

VERY GOOD!

Well that was short lived. #Skint for real now!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43590208

China Crisis...?

Wow. Absolutely ridiculus.

Ooooo dear.... don't blame them, stupid investment in the first place.

Now we know why jimmy hasn't been sacked!

Buckets at the ready again 🙈🙈

"With continuing problems in receiving the money from 5USport, a deadline was set, and when that wasn’t met, the shares were returned to the ownership of Thomas and Bower’s NTVL."

So KT funded all the January transfers himself?

Someone on here said that they thought that he had...

To be fair wasn't it pretty much common knowledge that the window reinforcements were via bower and not the Chinese? Can't say I'm disappointed with this to be honest - it was pretty farcical from the beginning and the fact that we didn't hear a peep out of them spoke volumes.

There will be enough people on the outside wanting to see us fail, so it is up to us to stand up for each other, all starting on Friday against Charlton.”

I didn't know that. Makes the Chinese leaving rather irrelevant then?

On the positives, it'll take a moderator approximately 5 seconds to change 'partner' to 'part' in the thread title.

I hasten to add that I am only going by what some posters on here said at the time - I certainly haven't got any inside knowledge. Obviously not great news as if/when we go down the likelihood is that our only assets (Taylor, facey, crooks) will be sold on. On the other hand it might lead to some other more credible investment source to present itself.

Who on earth with any sort of know how would want to invest in this shambles of a club?

Who knows, I'm clutching at straws. As an aside it's a bit of a strange time to make this announcement - on the verge of a massive match where all players and fans need to focus on the 3 points not off the field instability.

That's about the sum of it...cash in your winnings, Chinese group an utter waste of time!

Straws? Chopsticks surely!

That is an absolute disaster on so many levels .
It all seemed too good to be true from the start .
Now we are left with players and management staff that have come here on false promises and totally demotivated .
They probably all now know they will leave next season due to contract clauses and we are going to plummet .
What an absolute mess .
Things go from bad to worst .

Maybe the Indian investors will step in. When will we ever learn?

DOOMED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Chinese Out
KT Out
Hass Out
Buckets Out

I couldn’t agree more with this .
The whole club from top to bottom seems to have lost the plot .
My concern now is for next season and what could happen.
If we weren’t going down before , we certainly are now .

It pretty much draws a line under the possibility of sacking jimmy, we wouldn't be able to afford it now even if we wanted to - he's probably the safest manager in the football league now! It might account for why jimmy's been so downbeat in interviews this week.

Hardly a surprise to those in the know!!

The charge placed in January over 5USports shares was the pre-cursor to this.

I'm not sure if I believe "investment restrictions".........how many clubs are owned by foreign owners nowadays? They don't seem to have many issues!!

Birmingham, Aston Villa, West Brom and Wolves are all "Chinese owned"......as are both AC and Inter Milan. Chinese consortia have also invested in many other clubs.

To me this was all weird from the beginning.....what was in it for a small company who traded in memorabilia? Whatever they invested in the beginning has now been bought back by Thomas, Bower et al....for just over a million quid.

So are we back to square one???  Was it all a sham? Was it another error of judgement by KT?

Read back through this article and then try and marry it up with what has ended up happening. Remember this was one of a few deals on the table at the time...and was considered the best!!

https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/breaking-chinese-company-5usport-purchases-major-stake-in-northampton-town-1-8025792

Strangely this announcement was made not only the day before a very important match for the team, but also on the last working day in March.....remember, the March when we were supposed to have all the legal issues sorted out with the council and be on our way to sorting the leases and sorting the East stand out.

This news sort of takes your mind off that "statement" made by KT doesn't it??

My questions would be (I appreciate I won't be getting an answer);

1. What did 5USPORT pay for their shares and what was actually received ?
2. What did KT/DB pay to buy these shares back ?
3. What new investment has been ploughed into the club ?

As I pointed out on another thread, the "End of March" deadline came from NBC not Kelvin

It's all very smoke and mirrors - deflection tactics all the way but at the same time only succeeds in deflating the fans, players and management on the eve of a crucial match.

It wasn't a deadine as such...Thomas himself said he was confident it would be sorted by the end of this month......now if that was based on "promises" made by the council then so be it......but Thomas said the end of March in a recent Youtube interview.

James Heneghan of the Chron has tweeted "Some interesting news coming from 5U Sport shortly"  :-\

I bet if we were top of the league they wouldn't have pulled out.

Reading his latest tweet Looks like the chron know something but have got cold feet.

Now claiming what they knew was a false alarm.  I’m not buying that, something is amiss.

Yeah this can't be good news.

I am absolutely stunned.
A group who invested in the cobblers but never actually came out with any interviews afterwards.
Two things worry me.
1) Are 5usports still in a position to sell replica shirts
2) How will this impact on the education links that have been so beneficial to the fans of ntfc.

Is there anything KT can pick as he seems not only to struggle picking managers but also now investment partners.
I’m actually thinking that although KT means well he may be a little out of his depth as a football chairman.
It’s not as if he’s getting much right as regards the running of the club and important decisions although I will give credit where it’s due,he has managed to erect some metal fencing around the back of the north stand and stick the old burger salesman in there.

Oh for a Chris Wilder type speech to rally the troops, and galvanize our club...   :'(

Tell you what...if/when we are close to going bust this time, let it happen.

So 5USport invested at the end of June, and this article http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4841524/Is-Chinese-football-ownership-bubble-burst.html was published two months later.......


Bad timing on NTFC's part???

Harsh statement from AlistairSlowe.
But it looks so familiar yet again. A chairman making promises and nothing coming of them. A call for new investment to take the club forward. It all looks familiar and predictable, hope to god it doesn't come down to the buckets again. If it does AlistairSlowe might well have a point.

I've had a skinful and just been sick in the sink...BUT...

It is so tiring, so tiring. We can never seem to just concentrate on the football, there is always something. I am at the end of my tether with it all and genuinely think we may need to start from the bottom.

If it comes down to it ,I don't know if I could be bothered with it all again.

Oh well at least they made progress in China on the educational front.

It also means Iciaofano might get a few games next season.

He’s saying that something is still developing and it was a false alarm in terms of reporting it and when someone asked if we should be worried he cryptically responded “no I don’t think so but it has been a chaotic evening” whatever that means.

Demotivated? None of the bastards have looked barely motivated all season.

It’s lucky that we were constantly told that the Chinese coming in was just a partnership - if it had been an actual takeover then them pulling out would have left us screwed :P.

Did we, or did we not, spend a lot of money in January? If so, then it hardly seems to matter as we've clearly got enough money in the first place to stay afloat and the Chinese contributed nothing anyway. If it's the latter, than maybe Hasselbaink didn't have as rosy a time with the transfer window as we thought, but that seems to not really fit around recruiting Kevin Van V etc

But is it money that we actually have ?

And where does spending that money in January leave us going forward?

It does make you wonder if we were dipping into the redevelopment funds in January, doesn't it? :-\

The Chinese invested into a holding company called NT ventures and not Northampton town fc.
Until we get someone in to take over the later who have plans for the clubs immediate and future growth, we may as well batten down the hatches as we approach the rough seas that is surviving the next 10 years in league 2.

If you put aside the nonsensical figures that you use to create investment , you are left with nothing more creative or obvious than the rest of us state. Anything that suffers from a lack of investment will eventually fail. The issue still remains that there was no queue at the door after Cardozas departure. Once again we were/are funded/maintained more on an aspiration basis, than with a clear investment mandate. So as is always the case... All of us, probably you to a greater degree, are left stating the obvious. If I could add anything that remotely resembles progress I would, but I can't. All I can do is wish all the luck in the world to KT and the staff at NTFC, who I know are as desperate as any of us to find the signicant investment required to move the club on....

Looks like KT and partners are acting in the best interests of the Club to me. Shame it hasn't worked out with 5USport but the board are actively searching for businesses to invest in us. As for the timing of the announcement, can you imagine the criticism and abuse that would have been aimed at the board if this story had broke elsewhere. Forget everything else, we need to win today's game. Despite his public support, KT did go on to say that this season has been a disappointment, which tells you what he really thinks of JFH.

Just a thought but if KT is such a successful businessman in America and has rich friends/partners like shaq o’neil why can’t he persuade one of them that the cobblers is a viable option for investment?

Meanwhile over in twitter land, Marvo is blaming Brexit, and is serious  ::)
The trust met with KT yesterday and Insider reckons he happy with what KT had to say.

I’m trying to work out when this all fell apart - some time ago me thinks! Probably late last year. No 5U logos on the east stand banners (I think). January may have been financed by KT and partners? I wouldn’t blame KT for the failure - just very unfortunate timing. Dissapointing outcome but not the end of the world. Dust yourself down and get on with it!

Is it not the case when the post Cardoza apocalyptic landscape was lifted when the council dropped their demands for £10.25m.. It was at this time we could have been openly sold to the best bidders but we accepted the present consortium and its £4m to invest in the stadium, that hasn't happened yet?

There’s much more to this to come - the fact that it didn’t even make radio Northampton’s news and heneghan’s cryptic comments suggests that they’re waiting for more information before reporting.

You have no understanding that investment, planning, development and legality are complicated in themselves, and fraught with problems when combined! 🙄

That the KT led consortium saved the club is something for which we have to be grateful but KT cannot dine out on that for ever.  

One thing is clear is that it is David Bower's money that has been invested in the club and he cannot be a happy guy.  The unfortunate thing is that he remains a hidden face leaving it all to KT to give the media spin.  Go back and consider KT's spin in January when the legal charge over Ventures shares in NTFC became public knowledge and also his statements on the Chinese "investment" which never appears to have taken place.  We, the supporters who will be here long after he has gone, have been treated with disdain but now his credibility is right on the line and questions could and should be asked.

The present situation is a complete & utter shambles but the embarrassing failure of the "partnership" with 5USport has been flagged up on this site for many weeks and few, if any, took any notice.  In case it escaped anyone's attention yesterday was not only the date by which NBC were meant to do whatever it had to on the land issues but also the day on which the Trust were due to meet with KT.  I am sure the Trust is and has been aware of the behind scenes situation for a while. Therefore, a full report from the Trust should be expected in the next few days.  It is time for transparency failing which we will have learned absolutely nothing from the mistakes of the past.

Not really sure why this is a big deal or people are getting their knickers in a twist about it.

Clearly the Chinese produced some cash at first but didn't follow up with a serious long term investment. The chairman and his group have fortunately remained involved and got shot of them. I'm relieved they are gone to be honest as I was never sure about their motives.

We move forwards.

Absolutly spot on Vintage the both of us are the ONLY ONES that took notice of this going on well before Christmas.
This is highly embarrassing for not only the club but also KT.
Having said that its time to rally around the team and support the whole club in trying to support our L1 future.

I think those with brains already had concerns, and when this came to light the warning lights hit red. Of course, some were a bit Slowe to catch on! ;)

I voiced reservations from the offset, not least of which being based around some very unusual/uneven web traffic on their site, which suggested they weren't really anything of note in a business sense. Honestly, not a shock. And probably no great loss, in and of itself - although that's not to say we don't need to find some other source of financial stability.

I would have thought that is pretty obvious , but if you really need it spelling out ...
How do you think the club has attracted some of the calibre of players and management ( that have admittedly failed ) ?
It was due to the perceived ambition of the club and the money that was there to spend . They didn’t come because they like the Northamptonshire countryside .
The money never materialised and so false promises have been given.
Furthermore , we have had to find cash for a wage structure we now can’t afford .
In addition , we are going down which makes matters financially worst .
It’s a mess and it is something to “ get your knickers in a twist about “ because the whole premise of the club has been based on spin.
It may explain the hugely disappointing season on the field to some extent .
Back to square one

The Trust has just released this statement:

The Supporters' Trust welcomes the news that David Bower and Kelvin Thomas have re-acquired the shares which had been purchased by Chinese investors 5USport last summer.
The Trust met with Kelvin and other club officials yesterday afternoon and were fully appraised of the situation in respect of the club’s ownership and why it was felt necessary to take this step.
Following a full and frank discussion, we believe the return of the shares is in the best interests of safeguarding the immediate future of the football club.
The Trust has, for some time, had concerns about the viability of 5USport’s investment – we are fully supportive of this course of action and we will be happy to address any concerns raised with us.
We also discussed the need for longer-term investment in the football club and the position with regard to the East Stand development.
But we agreed that these were topics that should be explored more fully at a later stage – and that presently the clear focus needs to be on keeping the club in League One and getting fully behind the team, starting with this afternoon’s home game against Charlton Athletic.

You leave me alone you bully  ;D

Thank you Fez and whilst I agree that the immediate issue of retaining League 1 status takes priority but let's be careful not to kick the ownership and redevelopment can too far down the road.

Hardly.

All joking aside, if ever NTFC could do with mounting one of their end of season great escapes, this'd be the year to pull something out the bag. Relegation will make an uneven situation a bloody sight worse...So, over to Jimmy! :-X

Don't worry Vintage, we'll be trying our best not to do that!

Should add, as alluded to in the statement, people are welcome to raise any concerns with us directly. Feel free to PM myself on here, or email ntfc_trust@outlook.com

Personally, I'm still convinced that the club is extremely lucky to have KT.

1. He saved the club when we looked dead and buried
2. He has backed every manager we've had in the transfer market (particularly JFH)
3. He was absolutely right to seek outside investment. It's very easy with hindsight to see the Chinese deal as a mistake, but
these things are always a gamble. At least the deal provided some cash flow at a time when we were attempting to consolidate in League One.
4. The East Stand debacle is manifestly not of his making.
5. Being a football club chairman is a bloody difficult and often thankless task

Obviously, the managerial appointments have left a lot to be desired, but again that is with the benefit of hindsight. Such is the ruthless world of football that the vast majority of managers are ultimately seen as failures - look at Alexander at 5th placed Scunny as an example.

In an ideal world, I'd love to see somebody impose a genuine long-term vision for the club. I'd like to see us playing Wilder-style, high-pressing, 'front foot' football with a squad of permanently-contracted, hungry footballers with the character and resilience necessary to get results. I'd like to see genuine managerial succession planning (i.e. training up assistant managers/coaches etc) so that the vision could transcend the departure of influential individuals. However, very few clubs have this kind of long-term vision and I'm pragmatic enough to see that we're lucky to have KT and that he deserves our support.

You're right Jolly but only a small minority of regular posters on this site raised any comment. Recently, I was told by one of the regulars to shut up on the subject.  

What happened to Jimmy out then? Thought he was gone!?

I can't say I agree with you Bungle (BTW, it is Bower's money not KT's) but until the relegation battle is decided I think it best to keep comments to the minimum.

Sad but true. I think after the Cardozagate debacle it became very Xfiles - people wanted to believe.

I agree it's not the time to say I told you so or mention #skint (remember that and the sh1t I got)
Let's get behind JFH and the team starting with 3 points today.

From what Fez alluded to, we are ok in the short term and KT didn't want to discuss long term which to me comes across as our future is again very uncertain. weve been here so many times, just forget what goes on off the pitch for once, if you think too much about it you will go round the bend

Didn't things transpire from his tenure at Torquay similar to how this is starting to look? I can't remember the details, but lots of promise or false hope and then buggering off with a fattened wallet.

I can’t see the last bit happening. Maybe some moths.

I don't know mate. And regardless of your best efforts to suggest otherwise, neither do you. As far as I'm aware, and only using the facts I had at hand at the time... We had very few choices.

See.. Your point has only ever been a figment of your imagination. You either pluck random figures out of the air, or imagine that there is a queue of investors lined up outside Sixfields. One thing that is clear, KT and others involved in the club probably mix in significantly more business minded circles than most on here. I'm pretty confident that they have access to people with large sums of money. I'm also confident that if they could relieve them of some of their cash to buy a stake, or indeed purchase the whole club, they would have bitten their hand off and run for it.

By the sheer fact that KT has never once denied that the club is always up for sale should the right investor turn up. I think it's fair to assume like most clubs, no fcuker is daft enough to touch us with a barge pole.

I'm far from happy with where we are. But I'm still not happy to bite the BITE the only hand that has been prepared to feed us since DC left.

My concern is that with the Chinese investment did it enable us to offer better wages?

If so this whole deal could mean we now have a manager or certain players on wages that we might have struggled to afford before the Chinese deal came along.

On a positive note, there are many clubs who have overseas investment which have now ripped the soul out of their clubs with their fans desperately wanting them out, so at least we know that we won't be in that position.

COYC

Someones has been clever and has cancelled their Titanic ticket ,just before it sailed

One thing's for sure: we're not where we are due to a lack of money being spent.

JED paid off, Crooks, Bunney, Waters, Facey, Van Veen etc being brough in for fees. Plenty spent on wages for Taylor, Foley etc.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if we've spent considerably more money than Shrewsbury for instance.

many a true word spoken there. The thing that really interests me is, given the club would always be up for sale what was KTs motivation for getting involved in the first place? He has no emotional attachment to the club, he probably got it on the cheap but there are far easier and more reliable ways to invest money than a football club. He is also based in the States which causes issues around managing the investment? Don’t think the bloke is stupid, so what’s the plan? He’s invested in clubs before in the short term so there is clearly an attraction. It hasn’t worked out but the only one I can see was already having 5U lined up and perhaps using them as an exit strategy if the club pushed on? That’s a bit wishy washy I know but it’s a bit of a mystery?

It's not a mystery at all. A club with potential but available at a under valued price due
To the incompetence of previous owners.

No issues at all with kT exploiting that. Indeed the better we are the more he makes.

that plan is on the rocks tonight.

Still far easier and less risky ways to make money though Pedj?

Now we are relegated.. is it possible to make public the discussions at this meeting as to our much needed long term investment into the clubs infrastructure?
Did they suggest relegation to league 2 now negates any need for investment?
Was it suggested by them selling up we might attract investors who have a vision giving us a better chance and be in a healthier position to compete when we return next to league 1?
Not bothered by this chinese stuff as it looked mickey mouse from the very start.

The next Bournemouth? Northampton enter a new era after Chinese takeover

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/jun/27/northampton-town-league-one-chinese-takeover

Interesting read this. Notice the amendment at the bottom of the piece.

Worked out really well didn't it.

What will happen to all the shirts and merchandise we managed to sell in China EBay will be flooded with the stuff😀

'we had debts of £18m'
Yes pie in the sky cardoza £8m which he had to write off after what he did and the poor old council the other £10m.
That leaves almost a nice clean slate in which should be a very attractive acquisition for anyone looking to grow the football club and its support base...but hold that front page guardian newspaper, things have gone wrong and we are not about to become the new Bournemouth but more likely that of Stockport or Tranmere!

Chinese Investors claim they are still major stakeholders in Cobblers despite apparent split.

Get the popcorn out.


https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/chinese-investors-claim-they-are-still-major-stakeholders-in-cobblers-despite-apparent-split-1-8440216 (https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/chinese-investors-claim-they-are-still-major-stakeholders-in-cobblers-despite-apparent-split-1-8440216)

Phew that's a relief, I thought we were going to get relegated for a while.

Who is actually in charge??

Latest betting
Kelvin 5/2
Tom  13/8
Oliver 7/2
Burger bloke who lost his prime pitch and was moved behind the north stand 4/5
The annoying bell he used to ring 33/1
Clarence 5/2
Gareth willsher 20/1
Jeema 5/2

[quote author travelaway= topic= 16263.msg353659]
Club is now in freefall on and off the pitch

 [/quote]

You sound pleased

I wonder who the Chinese will appoint as the new chairman?
I’d assume that they can resign as directors themselves but keep their shareholding by appointing their own chairman/directors.
I’d imagine kelvin will try to liquidate northampton town ventures pretty quickly and set up a new holding company which he controls.
If this happens you can quickly see Tom taking legal action.

In a nutshell I think Kelvin thinks he is still in charge and is desperate to sell however legally my guess is Tom is in charge and kelvins out the door having done his money.
No one could buy the club from Kelvin or invest in it whilst Tom claims he owns it.

This begs the question who will pay the wages and why if there is an ownership dispute.

As fans this could work in our favour.
By not paying the players we can terminate all contracts and they will be keen to leave.
This will mean at least we can start from scratch without a huge wagebill,that is assuming we still have a club.

Kelvin won’t pay wages if the courts find in favour of Tom and Tom won’t pay if they find in favour of Kelvin.
What is interesting is that no one is keen on saying whose money has funded the January spending.
That could be an interesting piece of evidence in court proceedings.

Stay away from being a barrack room lawyer, Shoey. You will only succeed in making yourself look stupid.

Come in Terry / Marquis.....please

Thankyou
I just can’t see how we can continue if Kelvin has been sacked but he doesn’t think he has been?
I was just expressing an opinion and admit that I am not in any way legally trained.
I will however offer up this opinion without any bias whatsoever.....
As a club we are in a right mess from top to bottom
On the pitch and off.
Thing is I don’t actually know how it’s come to this and on whose watch it’s happened....
Kelvins?
Toms?
Oliver’s?

Have you an opinion on this issue tony?
I can’t imagine there are many car rally’s what with this awful weather continuing

Definitely Tom and Oliver's as in any case their names are a perfect fit!"

Don't quit the day job Shoey  🙈🙈🙈

No that's why I called for Terry's opinion. Please wait

Ok
Il leave it to those with more knowledge than me but il try to explain myself better.
If I was ever lucky enough to own a company and employ staff I’d be worried if someone else said they owned my company and were prepared to take me to court to prove it.
I’d then be worried that I may be paying wages of staff that I don’t actually employ any more.

I know that’s very simplistic but it can’t be good to have two sides both claiming to own the football club can it.
Again I’m no legal eagle but sometimes these disputes seem to drag on and on especially if it ends up in court

As a fan of over 25 years what I don’t want is a club in limbo as it can’t be a good thing can it?

Shoey, have a think, in what field did David Bower make his money ?

That's a very interesting question. Bower and Bailey make decent money as provincial solicitors but nothing like the amount needed to fund a professional football club. Bower is involved in property development in Oxfordshire but you've got to question whether that makes enough for him to chuck the millions required to finance a League One football club just to get a comfy seat in the West Stand. I heard that Mike Wailing, who made a lot of money in transport, is a major benefactor but I cant for the life of me see what's in it for him.
That's the major problem, who on earth would want to sink their hard earned money into a failing league one football club? Answers on a pinhead please.

I think the point is Bower is a legal expert....

I’d forgotten that.
All will be well then

Just on this bit it was a pretty open secret that it was Thomas and Bower that put money into the club in January. Thomas even covered it in the interview about the split on Thursday.

I assume the Chinese claims was the story that James Heneghan wanted to run on Thursday night. This could be very bad news for us however I hope as David bower is a solicitor that he’s pretty confident that they still own the club.  Reading between the lines of KTs statement the other day he implied that 5USport never completed the acquisition of the shares.  I assume not all the money was ever received or something.

According to the 5u website they still are major shareholders..

(https://media.giphy.com/media/tyqcJoNjNv0Fq/giphy.gif)

Stakeholders, not shareholders. The two words mean very different things.

Yes you are right mate, get those fellas in from the other side of the world with no prior knowledge of running a football club.

             So true.

I doubt very much they could even match the mess the latest lot have made?
You need to learn from the past and the costly mistakes to avoid poor running of a football club, but we rode coach and horses through it only to find there is a major reason we keep failing to step up to League 1 these past several times since 1976 and still being found wanting  making the same mistakes in 2018.. When will we learn...
Soon hopefully.

Amazing that nobody is as wise as you Beds!.....................or repeats the same phrase as often!

More investment in the playing staff this year than on our last forrays in league one. This season is not down to the usual reasons we don't fare well in this league.
It is down to a piss poor manager not finances.

Sad thing is he's right, repeating it over and over doesn't make it more right though.

That’s a sort of ‘sit on the fence’ stance  ;D

Thanks Evers hope you have a nice time today mate.

Desperate spending is not investing into the team but just that 'desperate spending' because maybe of an initial lack of spending, perhaps?
What have we done differently this time than all  other miserable failures.. nothing, its just another wasted oppertunity.
When we next return to L1 in several years we need to hope we are on an even playing field with the whole town engaged and we have a definitive plan as to where we are going.

So Bri77 every manager we have had when we have struggled has been poor?

Almost every player has been rubbish

But the chairmen have been great as every time we bring in loads of players last minute. I have said for a long time that history is so repeating it self it is unbelievable, even down to the same people complaining and the same people defending the chairman.

The players and managers job is so much harder when there is no ambition, no belief and no plan

KT almost done a deal where he brought the club for £150k and sold half of it for over £4m and was still waiting for NBC to give him for stuff for free, all the time keeping fans in the dark and belittling our club saying we are not worth growing.

KT gained control of the club from NBC by saying he will develop the East stand with the £3m, he has done nothing yet still is under no pressure from fans or the Trust. Another deadline passes and in a meeting with the Trust, they all agree not to even talk about it as we face relegation.

Sorry but it is exactly the reason they should be talking about it, not sure how trust and chairman talking about the East stand affects our relegation surrender?  More excuses, more acceptance from the Trust.

It's time KT sold his interest for a small profit to the people of Northampton so we can actually start moving forward with our club. Perhaps then we as people of Northampton can speak with NBC about developing the land around Sixfields that will benefit us, training and sports facilities perhaps, something we could be proud of rather than more mediocre retail and industrial parks, of which we have plenty.

And if that does happen you will still moan

So the way I see it......5USports came in, paid some money but not all of it.....Northampton Town Ventures confirmation statement was made AFTER the Chinese arrival and showed no changes to the shareholdings of the "parent company" of the football club.
The money was still not forthcoming so David Bower via another company Belle De Jour based in the British Virgin Isles loaned the football club via the parent company £1.1 million in January. If 5U had come up with more money by the end of January they would have been entitled to claim the shares in NT Ventures and therefore gain control of the Parent Company (60%).
They didn't so Yeung and Zheng....both of whom had been appointed as directors of both NT Ventures and NTFC were removed from both companies on 28th March.

Bower, who had resigned from NT Ventures following the appointment of Yeung and Zheng put the money in and the company Belle De Jour has been registered at Companies House as "a person with significant control" in NT Ventures.

Northampton Town Ventures hold more than 75% of the shares in the Football Club, and Belle de Jour now own more than 75% of the shares in Northampton Town Ventures.

Ergo.....David Bower owns the Football Club!!

Respect to your investigative endeavours, and thank you for sharing this with us.   A cracking bit of research that is well presented and very clear.

(Do I sound like Cecilia?)

Agree really good stuff GPC

Good work there mate. Appreciate that.

Derek I know you fell out with DC and, obviously, you have fell out with KT over something, but I would be grateful if you would stop making accusations about the Trust when you can't back anything up with evidence. Keep us out of YOUR personal disagreements

I think that's along the right lines but from what I've read of the documents I have a slightly different perspective.

Like you I agree the statement of shareholding in Northampton Town Ventures shows no change but it's curious this was posted in January on the same day of the legal charge.  My understanding is that the Chinese were majority shareholders in NVT and therefore owned the majority stake in the club.

The legal charge is where it gets interesting in my opinion.  What seems to have happened is that KT, Bower etc. Were funding the club to the tune of 1.1 million.  Not necessarily in one lump sum but over the first half of the season basically to keep us afloat in the absence of the promised Chinese investment.  Clearly a line in the sand was drawn in January where they set the deadline of the end of January for the investment in the club to materialise....which would repay the 1.1 million plus add funds for the January transfer window and rest of season.  To secure this "loan" of 1.1 mill the Chinese on behalf of NTV signed the legal charge which provided the shares in NTFC, essentially the ownership of the football club as security not the ownership of NTV.

So in simple terms they agreed that if they didn't repay the 1.1 mill by the end of January Bower via his Virgin Island firm would claim the ownership of the football club.  This would leave Northampton Town Ventures owned by the Chinese with nothing as the shares in the football club were it's  only real asset.

Obviously the deadline came and went I'm assuming funds didn't appear the legal charge was executed on the shares and Bowers Virgin Island firm now owns the football club.

This might then go some way in explaining the curious response of the Chinese saying they were still owners of Northampton Town Ventures.  Maybe they were/are but they don't own the club anymore so NTV is worthless.

I'm also assuming this is then why we have now seen Belle De Jour the Virgin Island firm as persons with significant interest in NTV as they now control the only asset NTV had i.e the football club shares so essentially they own NTV indirectly.  Whether this then gives them the right to remove the Chinese as directors???  I don't know.

Other option I guess is that the Chinese realised the game was up they had lost the shares in the football club and therefore agreed to resign and leave ownership of NTV with KT and Bower?

In the Chinese defence.  They clearly signed the legal charge on the shares back in January so either didn't realise what they had done or genuinely believed the investment would come through.  Why else give up your only asset and be left with nothing.  Also there was a definite change in the rules regarding Chinese overseas investment that happened last Autumn.  The Chinese leadership passed laws to restrict "frivolous" overseas investment as they were concerned regarding the volume of money that was leaving the country.  Remember the ridiculous transfer fees they were paying a couple of years ago?  Therefore it may well have been the case that they were genuinely unable to fulfill their original investment promises.....of course it could equally be the case they were a load of chancers who strung everyone along and never had the money in the first place.

Sorry bit long winded but hopefully it makes sense.  No guarantee I'm exactly right but it's what I've pieced together.

Things I've taken from this....fair play to KT, Bower etc. seems like they funded significantly to cover the shortfall though I guess they chose these business partners and put us in this position in the first place so not too much sympathy.  Thank god Bower knows his way round the legal stuff looks like he played a blinder.  I don't see any reason to be concerned the Chinese have any comeback so we can move on quickly.  Little concerned re funds coming in from Virgin Islands and wonder whether the football league will be totally happy about these goings on.  Probably be on Panorama some time in the future now we are funded/owned from a tax haven!

Moving forward it's clear belts are going to need to be tightened or another investment looked for.  Let's hope due diligence is a bit more thorough this time.

The confirmation statement was indeed filed on 16th January however it was made on 4th November......so if no shares had changed hands on 4th November, some four months after the Chinese "arrived", did they ever "own" the shares??

It would appear that although Yeung and Zheng were listed as directors of NTV and NTFC in June, the transfer of shares to them never happened.

I must say that you and Hammer make this subject very interesting and look forward to more in-depth discussions. This type of subject brings the best out of you GPC 8)

Roger I am sorry but the evidence is from Fez's own statement on this thread.

The Trust is there to represent the fans. You have had at least two meeting recently, one with NBC and one with KT. You have issued statements drafted as though you are bloody politicians, saying absolutely nothing of any substance other than come across as don't worry we know what is going on and we know best.

Again sorry but you were told / warned about DC for years, you (The Trust) were even in the boardroom yet you did and said nothing until it was basically too late. so why should we trust you now ?

Beds and I (and others) have asked on numerous occasions for information regarding the exact size and location of land / leases, of which you claim to have seen and still you do not communicate any information to us fans.

I don't understand with the Trust is that you all worked bloody hard and do loads of great work, give up your own valuable time, all for the good of NTFC, however when it comes to our club progressing and growing you all seem more than happy to sit on side, say nothing, demand or even ask for less, making sure you don't upset anyone in charge. I am sure i don't need to remind you that we have one of the smallest grounds in the country, one with one of the worst facilities, yet we must be one of only a few clubs that don't have a Prem / Championship club within 40 miles, all with a population of 250k on our doorstep. Our town can and should be supporting Championship football.

For almost 10 years now we have had a chairman who will not invest in anything medium term off the pitch. Once again we are back to League 2, history repeating itself again and again and again, and why?  Because just like Sammo said we have no plan, no identity, no vision, neither on or off the pitch.

So Roger the evidence is in the lack of evidence, in the lack of information, in the lack of questioning, in the lack of action. Please please please post on here, or a proper statement giving the exact details about what the Trust knows about the land and leases, who owns NTFC and what their plans are. I stood next to James at York away and said that KT will not develop the East stand, 2 years later I am still correct, another deadline has been and gone.

We, the fans want to know what is going on with our football club.

This is a brilliant summary. I've done less reading than you clearly have but this is close to my understanding.

I do feel that, as a fan base, we a still reeling from the Cardoza saga and are a bit quick to see the 'dodgy' in any news related to the financial running of the club and/or the conduct of its owners.

If this summary is accurate, the reality is that KT, Bower & co. probably did a pretty decent job of protecting themselves and the club throughout this brief encounter with 5USport.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_districts_by_population

I see we have the 73rd largest district by population. We must be close to 73rd in the league?

And we have title winning Leicester City less than 40 miles away.

Yes the borough of Northampton is 73rd BUT the strength of NTFC has been it is the County's team, which shows when you see the spread and number of season tickets holders. You can more than double that population when you take in the county towns and support we have from Northamptonians now living in Milton Keynes.

Ok Wolvo Leicester is more or less 40 miles away.

How many clubs do Huddersfield / Burnley / Watford / Stoke / have within 40 miles?

How many do Rochdale, Southend, Bradford, Gillingham, Portsmouth?

The problem is Derek, you're judging us on your point of view of how YOU THINK the Trust should operate. It represents the WHOLE fanbase, not all of whom will share your opinion.

For every fan who says it needs to upset the apple cart, there's another that would argue it should remain working quietly behind the scenes. It's a difficult balancing act that I accept won't please everyone because we have to find some middle ground.

Do you honestly believe that the Trust don't want to tell you everything that was said at the council meeting? I didn't go myself, I'd love to have heard every word. But if we blurt out everything suddenly we don't find ourselves at the table with the decision makers any more.

This is my opinion, but I'd sooner rather have you criticise the Trust for not making every single detail public than to never get a meeting with the council again and lose any influence on discussions that we may have had.

You mention that the Trust was 'warned about DC for years'. For every person 'warning' us about him there were three or four who would tell us he was as good as gold. And do you honestly think it could have stopped something that the police have been investigating for three years - and have yet to make any charges in connection with?

Could we perhaps have said something sooner? Arguably yes - but again, it's subjective. Just think back to how many people refused to take 'We Want Answers' leaflets when we handed them out at that Oxford game, telling us that we should be getting behind the chairman.

That whole 'We Want Answers' campaign shows that when there's no other option on the cards, we'll take a tough public stance if we can. But until then, we're trying our best as we have throughout the season, to try and mediate between the club and the council behind the scenes. You'll know when we think that is no longer the best option available to us.

Wolvo, care to comment on anything else on my post rather than trying to pick at one tiny aspect of it?

Like most who post on here, you say nothing of any meaning other than trying to pick holes in anyones post who questions where we are and where we should be as a club.

I don't care about the money (as such), it is not the supporters job to be accountants for the owners, everyone knows that football is not a great investment in general, so please stop asking who is going to pay for it.

So if you want an outsider running the club demand that they invest and develop NTFC (not rely on NBC) or support the club into local hands including and especially the Trust, because they will put things in place

It is the small things that make the biggest difference, togetherness will achieve a whole lot more than 2 or 3 people on a pedestal.

Leicester might be 'more or less 40 miles away' from where you live... but the likes of Kettering, Corby, Rugby etc will live as close to Leicester as they will to Northampton. So saying we have no alternative doesn't really work. We're also an hour on the train from the London Prem clubs and an hour on the train from the West Midlands championship clubs.

No idea about the other examples you're throwing at me (except I know Southends big rival is Colchester about 40 miles away?).

How many big teams do MK, Peterborough, Cambridge, Oxford have? (just picking teams close by at a similar level to us).


I felt that was the only part that needed picking up on. Everything else was kind of aimed at the Trust. I've made my feelings known about Fez plenty of times and need not comment again.

Hi James thank you so much for your measured response, as you know my passion often gets away with me.

I know you are in a very difficult place and i certainly know how many 'fans' were against "we want answers"

I know my posts come across as anti-Trust, I just more information. I am so so frustrated that we will be back in Div 4 again, especially given the circumstances.

I really don't want to be against KT but I really see very little difference from DC (illegal doings aside) in his desire to develop NTFC. Yes he is a lot more savvy, more modern etc and some minor things have improved but it would have been almost impossible not to.

I had hope that the Trust might have taken a slightly more demanding approach, sitting quietly on the sidelines didn't work before and it hasn't worked since.

I also don't understand how you telling fans about the details of the leases and land could upset NBC, to me the Trust should be demanding that information is available for all to see, we should know what is going on with our club and our (northampton's) land.

Again I do appreciate much of the work of the Trust but you have a very important role to play in NTFC and I think that you underestimate your power and what can be achieved.  BTW how are Wycombe doing? Do the Trust still run their club?

Grange Park - your brief on ownership  and 5usport is how I thought I understood things so this helps me to confirm my views as almost rational. But.
NTFC ltd has both Belle De Jour and Fantastical as having significant control but Belle De Jour having 75% or more of shares and Fantastical as having more than 50% but less than 75%! So how this totals 100%?
Either way it’s Bower with Thomas as the front man on both counts. I think.

Confusing eh!

Thanks Wolvo for your reply, I wasn't really saying there is no alternative but they are not exactly on our doorstep

MK have 30,000 capacity, Peterborough 12?, Oxford 12 with 3 sides lol, Cambridge not sure but is all about the University

Yes none of them have major clubs around them but all have higher capacity and generally better facilities than us.

...and where has it got them?

Not surprised we are only 73rd on the list of populations by district when it includes whole counties like Cornwall, Durham and Wiltshire! Northampton is the 23rd largest city/town in England. Not sure how catchment areas can ever be nailed down, on one hand you have the whole of Norfolk supporting Norwich, on the other Wigan and Bolton's grounds are only about 5 miles apart We are languishing in the lower divisions because of a history of missed opportunities and because we have never been lucky enough to have ever had a rich benefactor able to transform such as has happened at Reading or Wigan. In terms of championship (or higher) potential, population is about the only thing we have going for us!

The response or lack of it from many of our fan base in response to the "we want answers" protest should have told people all they needed to know.

Most fans are happy bimbling along in a bubble until the club bumps in to the next crisis. The 5USPORT scenario will have barely registered on the minds of the majority of our fans.

Some of the lack of response to that though was due to ignorance (not in an insulting way) not just indifference.

Not every Cobblers fan uses this site or social media. Combine that with the downfall of the Chron and there will be a fair few fans that get their Cobblers info from the club.

Understand what you're saying Clarkey but lets be honest, what did 5USPORT actually do for the club, how much did they invest? Did they ever do a press conference? Like others posters have said most people who don't come on here it won't have registered with them. Not having a go at you mate but to me their time here was very strange to say least. As others have said smoke & mirrors!

So because it hasn't worked for someone else it wouldn't work for us? ::)

Maybe / maybe not but when the discussion goes this way the other clubs cited as being examples we should follow are usually playing at the same level as us.

If it is all as clear cut as it is sometimes made out wouldn't it be better to provide example of clubs it has worked for?

It got two of them into the championship for a start.
For success see any number of 30 plus club in premiership and championship

Trouble is if I start using them you say u can’t compare us to Cardiff or Everton for  example

The point for NTFC is that we are starting from such as low base with Sixfields and as we don’t have any major big clubs on our doorstep, it really should not be any debate on if we should develop and improve

I don’t suppose much will change until we are threatened with non league or liquidation as most fans are really not bothered about off the pitch. For some reason they don’t care or don’t seem to understand how much off the pitch affects on the pitch.

This was exactly my point. Didn’t really think it needed spelling out!

As for getting two of them to the Champ, the consistent argument on here has been that better infrastructure would see us playing consistently at a higher level. It’s not been borne out for any of the examples given.

I’m not saying it wouldn’t help an awful lot, I think it would, just that it isn’t a magic wand.

And then relegated back to the same League as us, maybe even with their infrastructure championship was not sustainable?

Not at all, if there examples we should follow that succeeded I don’t see why you wouldn’t use them to support your argument. Yes using Everton as an example would be laughable, however Cardiff are probably a good example, I think they grew steadily before being sold to a single investor. Who else is there? How did they do it? What can we learn? I’m sure most people are open to that debate.

I said on another thread that I do believe that for a majority of our fan base they will judge the club in what happens on the pitch. That’s not to say they don’t care about the off-pitch stuff, anything that supports the team will be supported I’m sure. I don’t think there are any fans out there that actively want us to not develop and improve the ground/our facilities. However I do think a large % don’t see how that will happen without someone like KT putting the money up to do it, whatever their motives might be.

I bet MK thought this. Even bigger catchment area and even further away from other sides. Built a better stadium with better facilities than we could ever want. What's going wrong there?

Totally different thing, they are a very new concept that have vast amount of london club supporters based there.
But in 20 odd years they have moved into one of the country's best stadiums, established themselves as a league club, won 2 promotions and the football league trophy. They always average more home gate than can be accomodated at the 120 year old Northampton towns little ground.. yes they HOPEFULLY  will be relegated this season but you wouldn't back against them bouncing back at first attempt..
We need to copy the positives from the likes of mk not use a
 progressive clubs set backs as a reason to stand still.