The Hotel End

The Hotel End => Other Football & Sport => Topic started by: andycobbler on July 08, 2018, 08:42:36 am



Title: It's not coming home
Post by: andycobbler on July 08, 2018, 08:42:36 am
 Not cobblers, but lets start believing #itsnotcominghome  :'(


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: Snow Dive Larry on July 09, 2018, 11:09:22 am
Got to say, the England run can only help club football and hopefully there's a pick up of interest locally come August.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: Gen.Disorda on July 12, 2018, 00:30:18 am
Two things I found embarrassing tonight..and pretty much all tournament.

Constant slating of sterling - As soon as he left the pitch we were nullified as a threat.

Slagging off of Walker - When he got injured and we were sitting ducks without his pace.



Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: everbrite on July 12, 2018, 00:51:08 am
Two things I found embarrassing tonight..and pretty much all tournament.

Constant slating of sterling - As soon as he left the pitch we were nullified as a threat.

Slagging off of Walker - When he got injured and we were sitting ducks without his pace.



Certainly right about Sterling ; Walker had a fine first half went off a bit second half. Typical - left to rue missed chances. Trippier did well thru’ out.Thought our second half performance a tiny bit reminiscent of past failures. ‘Fort that the Croats were on the dirty side ?


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: Village Idiot on July 12, 2018, 05:54:47 am
Modric ran the midfield and we did not have that quality of playmaker.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: Another Pedj on July 12, 2018, 07:51:42 am
Totally agree with this and indeed the comments immediately above. Croatia have consistently been the best side in the Tournament.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: The Rauldinho on July 12, 2018, 07:54:49 am
Was so surprised when Southgate took Sterling off, he was our most effective player on the night. After a decent first half, we got very tired in the second and Modric ran the show in the middle.

Hope Tripper and Walker don't have nasty injuries, would be a shame for Spurs.

Still, what a fantastic World Cup run and great to have most people talking about the national team in a positive light.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: lambretta on July 12, 2018, 08:27:58 am
Second half our wing-backs were pinned back , leaving us with just 3 in midfield constantly stretched and outgunned when the play was switched. It was agony to watch as I knew Southgate had stuck with the formation the whole tournament.

I wish we dropped Young to left back, Walked pushed to right back and substitute Ali/Lingard for Dier/Cheek and switch to a 4-4-2 so we could attempt to compete in Midfield and not get stretched constantly. I'm unsure how managers watch constant pressure build up and not have a solution to negate what's happening. Still could've lost but it was better than crossing fingers and watching on.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: everbrite on July 12, 2018, 08:53:08 am
Second half our wing-backs were pinned back , leaving us with just 3 in midfield constantly stretched and outgunned when the play was switched. It was agony to watch as I knew Southgate had stuck with the formation the whole tournament.

I wish we dropped Young to left back, Walked pushed to right back and substitute Ali/Lingard for Dier/Cheek and switch to a 4-4-2 so we could attempt to compete in Midfield and not get stretched constantly. I'm unsure how managers watch constant pressure build up and not have a solution to negate what's happening. Still could've lost but it was better than crossing fingers and watching on.

Other than that we passed over too many chances. Vardy on too late?


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: cobblerwatch on July 12, 2018, 09:10:15 am
Unfortunately on the day the better side won so no real complaints - Walker's booking and ball that winded him seemed to dull his game and as stated the stretched 3 in midfield gave Croatia a free reign.

As a side note I though the ref was poor & missed a lot of actual fouls but blew up when there was little or no contact - TV coverage is so good now it shows graphically their mistakes in an instant.

As a gracious loser I really want Croatia to beat France though! 


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: lambretta on July 12, 2018, 09:15:51 am
Vardy on too late?
The stretched and outnumbered midfield left us unable to mount composed attacks. Hence when Rashford entered the equation we still had exactly the same problem.

3-5-2 is a great formation when you're the stronger team, but Croatia played it perfectly in the second half. Anyway, what Southgate may lack in that area he made up for with creating an excellent camaraderie which was a great spectacle.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: Deepcut Cobbler on July 12, 2018, 09:22:43 am
He took the wrong player off when he took Raheem Sterling off, he should have replaced Kane with Vardy because Kane was either injured or running on empty.  The Croatian defenders would not have enjoyed Sterling and Vardy running at them mid way through the second half.

Surprised VAR didn't look more closely at the Sterling trip in the box, probably because he got straight up although there was contact.
"What if" Harry Kane had put his double chance away to make it 2-0?

Shame but Euro '20 here we come... 


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: ClarenceUpFront on July 12, 2018, 09:31:08 am
Croatia have better quality throughout their team. The tiredness of England as the game wore on was always going to happen as Croatia were always likely to dictate the play/have most possession. 7 attempts on target over the last 4 matches (mostly from set-pieces) says it all about England's true lack of quality.

If Rodriguez had been fit for Colombia they would not even have made the quarter-finals.

Pickford and Trippier were England's best players in the tournament by far, the rest are lacking.





Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: JollyCobbler on July 12, 2018, 10:15:27 am
Certainly right about Sterling ; Walker had a fine first half went off a bit second half. Typical - left to rue missed chances. Trippier did well thru’ out.Thought our second half performance a tiny bit reminiscent of past failures. ‘Fort that the Croats were on the dirty side ?

I've been saying this about Sterling all tournament. He's been the media/pundits' whipping boy from the start. Sure, his end product has been poor, and yet, without his runs and constant pressing we'd have next to no forward penetration.

At the break, I said Croatia would be having a right go second half, and unless we put them on the back-foot we'd end up losing. As it turned out, all too reminiscent of what we've seen for years. In reality, we'll likely never have an easier run to the final, so ultimately a typical England disappointment.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: Monty on July 12, 2018, 10:19:54 am
The boys did OK. They're not good enough to compete with the SuperPowers at the moment and need a bit of luck to beat the Tier 2 sides, as demonstrated in the win vs Columbia and loss last night. I don't think the personnel are as good as the 2010/2012 versions but I'm much more enthused by this team going forwards (and the decent young players that will start to break through) than the rubbish served up in 2014 and 2016.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: JollyCobbler on July 12, 2018, 10:21:06 am
He took the wrong player off when he took Raheem Sterling off, he should have replaced Kane with Vardy because Kane was either injured or running on empty.  The Croatian defenders would not have enjoyed Sterling and Vardy running at them mid way through the second half.

Surprised VAR didn't look more closely at the Sterling trip in the box, probably because he got straight up although there was contact.
"What if" Harry Kane had put his double chance away to make it 2-0?

Shame but Euro '20 here we come... 

Agree with this. We got totally overran second half, and needed to put them under some pressure. After they equalised, it felt as though we were playing to reach penalties.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: everbrite on July 12, 2018, 11:39:23 am
Croatia have better quality throughout their team. The tiredness of England as the game wore on was always going to happen as Croatia were always likely to dictate the play/have most possession. 7 attempts on target over the last 4 matches (mostly from set-pieces) says it all about England's true lack of quality.

If Rodriguez had been fit for Colombia they would not even have made the quarter-finals.

Pickford and Trippier were England's best players in the tournament by far, the rest are lacking.



Some strange comments there! You omit Maguire,Dyer and Stone who all did ok. Where your argument falls down is you resort to ifs and buts or even personal rhetorical. IMO we should have been 2-0 up by half time and most likely game over. You might have mentioned the brutality of the Colombians and similar tactics by the Croats.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: barton cobbler on July 12, 2018, 12:10:45 pm
I'm quite surprised that no one has mentioned the high boot for Croatia's first goal, normally in Europe above knee height is deemed to be dangerous play.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: 606 Parklands_Cobbler on July 12, 2018, 12:24:19 pm
I mentioned it. But still felt I was clutching at straws


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: Deepcut Cobbler on July 12, 2018, 12:28:59 pm
I'm quite surprised that no one has mentioned the high boot for Croatia's first goal, normally in Europe above knee height is deemed to be dangerous play.

Agree, clutching at straws but you are right, sometimes in Europe that is an automatic free kick.
I was surprised that VAR didn't appear to have interfered when Sterling was brought down in the box and immediately jumped back up, maybe that was the problem, he wasn't rolling around on the floor?


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: Gen.Disorda on July 12, 2018, 12:45:54 pm

Some strange comments there! You omit Maguire,Dyer and Stone who all did ok. Where your argument falls down is you resort to ifs and buts or even personal rhetorical. IMO we should have been 2-0 up by half time and most likely game over. You might have mentioned the brutality of the Colombians and similar tactics by the Croats.

I can't agree with Dier, I think he was poor. He scored the winning penalty but it was a poor penalty and lucky to go in.

My stand outs would Pickford, Trippier, Henderson , Maguire and Stones.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: SteveRiches on July 12, 2018, 12:59:09 pm
Once again we're not good enough - few players of true international standout stature, maybe not as fit as the opposition at times, and some poor tactical decisions. For a relatively young side the performances were ok and Southgate was an inspiring manager but when the talent coming forward isn't good enough we'll always fall short. If this side stays together it may be more competitive in a couple of years.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: AlistairSlowe on July 12, 2018, 13:31:29 pm
Just not quite good enough.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: ClarenceUpFront on July 12, 2018, 14:07:40 pm


Some strange comments there! You omit Maguire,Dyer and Stone who all did ok. Where your argument falls down is you resort to ifs and buts or even personal rhetorical. IMO we should have been 2-0 up by half time and most likely game over. You might have mentioned the brutality of the Colombians and similar tactics by the Croats.


England went all out to try and win the match in the first half, with a Kloppesque 'geggenpress' style opening, followed by sitting deep and kicking it long for Sterling to chase and try and beat their centre-backs for pace. Due entirely to this specific strategy for the first 20-25 minutes they were the better team and could have had a second, but they missed the couple of chances they had. Unfortunately that tactic can't be sustained for an entire match, and often comes with the price of sapping energy for the rest of the match and typically England were somewhat drained by these early exertions. Croatia rode that early storm, began to settle into the match and by the last 10 minutes of the first half their class was beginning to shine and they were showing clear signs of being in control.

In the second Croatia largely outclassed England. England were panicking early, as evidenced by Walker 'taking one for the team' by running off with the ball at a Croatia throw-in to halt a dangerous attack. Croatia deserved their well worked and taken equaliser and should have won in the 90 (great chance that hit the inside of the post, and the rebound from that, and the great match saving stop by Pickford from Mandzukic at the end). In ET Croatia continued to be the better team, England had tired even further due to chasing the ball for over an hour and Croatia got a deserved goal and a deserved win.

Stones did OK, but I still thought Pickford and Trippier were England's best players. Maguire is lacking and was found out numerous times during the tournament. An accident waiting to happen if he plays at another WC/Euros. As regards Dier, England brought him off the bench numerous times. On the other hand, Croatia had Kovacic on the bench and did not use him. Kovacic is more talented than all of England's midfield players by a long way. Dier is simply not good enough.

Can you give some examples of the 'brutality' of the Colombians, because I must have missed these.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: everbrite on July 12, 2018, 15:54:34 pm
I can't agree with Dier, I think he was poor. He scored the winning penalty but it was a poor penalty and lucky to go in.

My stand outs would Pickford, Trippier, Henderson , Maguire and Stones.

Sorry old boy but I like Dier and his penalty for me was sufficient.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: everbrite on July 12, 2018, 16:03:39 pm
......

Can you give some examples of the 'brutality' of the Colombians, because I must have missed these.

Firstly to all those who say we were outclassed - I disagree had we taken our chances we would be in the final.

As for Clarence’s comment on Colombian brutality not sure if Kane would agree. I agree with the commentators on BBC that the Colombians resorted to thuggery at times. Are you sure you support England?

Somebody else mentioned we were lucky in beating Columbia  - ‘yr having a laugh’ as they say on here!


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: Manwork04 on July 12, 2018, 16:56:47 pm
I hate football  :-[


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: double row row 7 on July 12, 2018, 18:31:56 pm
Perhaps chris wilder and alan knoll would make a fantastic England Manager and coach,if Gareth Southgate ever felt he has taken England as far as he can.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: ClarenceUpFront on July 12, 2018, 19:15:58 pm
Firstly to all those who say we were outclassed - I disagree had we taken our chances we would be in the final.

As for Clarence’s comment on Colombian brutality not sure if Kane would agree. I agree with the commentators on BBC that the Colombians resorted to thuggery at times. Are you sure you support England?

Somebody else mentioned we were lucky in beating Columbia  - ‘yr having a laugh’ as they say on here!

England only really had 1 great chance, which fell to Kane in the 1st half. They had 3-4 half-chances over the course of the 90, but then Croatia had a number of very good chances and multiple half chances as well. England 2 shots on target to Croatia's 7. Personally I think it's a bit of a stretch to suggest England deserved to win, only testing the keeper once more after the goal in almost 120 minutes of football.

Any examples of the Colombia 'brutality'? If you're thinking of the penalty, on close inspection the ref got it wrong, and the foul should have actually gone against Kane who was all over Sanchez. The 'headbutt' on Henderson was provoked by both Henderson and Lingard. Henderson was leaning heavily on the defender who tried to shrug him off. That he caught the underside of Henderson's chin with the top of his head was, IMO, accidental.

I agree with the view that England were fortunate to beat Colombia. England again only 2 shots on target, one of which was the penalty, which on close inspection can be shown to be an erroneous decision. Colombia were missing their best player, who is possibly one of the top 5 creative midfielders in the world. Colombia also were the better team in the 2nd half and were pretty dominant towards the end of the 90, and also for much of ET as well.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: Teachers Pet on July 12, 2018, 19:46:18 pm
England only really had 1 great chance, which fell to Kane in the 1st half. They had 3-4 half-chances over the course of the 90, but then Croatia had a number of very good chances and multiple half chances as well. England 2 shots on target to Croatia's 7. Personally I think it's a bit of a stretch to suggest England deserved to win, only testing the keeper once more after the goal in almost 120 minutes of football.

Any examples of the Colombia 'brutality'? If you're thinking of the penalty, on close inspection the ref got it wrong, and the foul should have actually gone against Kane who was all over Sanchez. The 'headbutt' on Henderson was provoked by both Henderson and Lingard. Henderson was leaning heavily on the defender who tried to shrug him off. That he caught the underside of Henderson's chin with the top of his head was, IMO, accidental.

I agree with the view that England were fortunate to beat Colombia. England again only 2 shots on target, one of which was the penalty, which on close inspection can be shown to be an erroneous decision. Colombia were missing their best player, who is possibly one of the top 5 creative midfielders in the world. Colombia also were the better team in the 2nd half and were pretty dominant towards the end of the 90, and also for much of ET as well.

I take it you are English?

If you are, there are lots of you around. Always look to put the national team down whenever you can, some people enjoy it and you sound like one of them. I bet if we had won the World Cup you'd be one of the first celebrating in the streets with the rest of us.   
 


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: everbrite on July 12, 2018, 20:43:15 pm
I take it you are English?

If you are, there are lots of you around. Always look to put the national team down whenever you can, some people enjoy it and you sound like one of them. I bet if we had won the World Cup you'd be one of the first celebrating in the streets with the rest of us.   
 

You tell 'im Teachers! I find it astonishing that an English Supporter can come out with such negatively contructed comments. Hope he avoids Cobblers games!


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: ClarenceUpFront on July 12, 2018, 20:50:12 pm
I take it you are English?

If you are, there are lots of you around. Always look to put the national team down whenever you can, some people enjoy it and you sound like one of them. I bet if we had won the World Cup you'd be one of the first celebrating in the streets with the rest of us.   
 

Weird, I'm just stating things as I have seen them in these two particular matches. I tend to be allergic to BS and the media have been full of it over the last 3-4 weeks. Club over national team every day for me.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: ClarenceUpFront on July 12, 2018, 20:52:27 pm
You tell 'im Teachers! I find it astonishing that an English Supporter can come out with such negatively contructed comments. Hope he avoids Cobblers games!

So what do you find inaccurate about my observations? I find it astonishing how an English supporter can't handle constructive criticism of the team!

See you against Lincoln in a few weeks!  ;D


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: Teachers Pet on July 12, 2018, 20:57:53 pm
Weird, I'm just stating things as I have seen them in these two particular matches. I tend to be allergic to BS and the media have been full of it over the last 3-4 weeks. Club over national team every day for me.

I'm born and bred in Northampton, I support my local team. But, i'm also English and always hope for the National team to do well. This World Cup they did the nation proud. What is wrong with supporting both England & NTFC - I just don't get some people.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: everbrite on July 12, 2018, 21:16:10 pm
England only really had 1 great chance, which fell to Kane in the 1st half. ...........................................................

Well that would have made it 2-0 and probably a place in the final for us. The classy Croat team would have had to open up and commit and Sterling might have had a field day and Vardy too. Still this is all sheer conjecture. The only thing you can rejoice is that the Croats won.
It took a long time to equalize and relied on extra time to win it. The majority of reports in the Times and Telegraph certainly said we were deserved winners against Columbia with both reports commenting on Columbian 'tactics'; with the Croat game we had our chances in the first half, we didn't take them and paid the penalty. To say we were outclassed is demeaning to the England Players and Southgate; for me it took too long for the Croats to equalise let alone win. Normally classy sides dont usually require extra time to win; their classy players do it much sooner.



Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: everbrite on July 12, 2018, 21:27:39 pm
So what do you find inaccurate about my observations? I find it astonishing how an English supporter can't handle constructive criticism of the team!

See you against Lincoln in a few weeks!  ;D

I think you made the mistake of being entirely negative on the two games in question. There was hardly any constructive comments on team ethics, the team working as one or even a word or two on Southgate. In other words it was a diatribe of doom with few if any positive conclusions. I bet your fun at Christmas; I look forward to your reports on Cobblers games ::)


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: ClarenceUpFront on July 12, 2018, 21:54:40 pm
Well that would have made it 2-0 and probably a place in the final for us. The classy Croat team would have had to open up and commit and Sterling might have had a field day and Vardy too. Still this is all sheer conjecture. The only thing you can rejoice is that the Croats won.
It took a long time to equalize and relied on extra time to win it. The majority of reports in the Times and Telegraph certainly said we were deserved winners against Columbia with both reports commenting on Columbian 'tactics'; with the Croat game we had our chances in the first half, we didn't take them and paid the penalty. To say we were outclassed is demeaning to the England Players and Southgate; for me it took too long for the Croats to equalise let alone win. Normally classy sides dont usually require extra time to win; their classy players do it much sooner.



God knows where to start with this one!

The England players were outclassed. You can't honestly think that Henderson, Ali and Lingard are even close to the same level of Modric, Rakitic, and Perisic, or that either Maguire or Stones is a good a centre-back as Vida etc. This isn't 'demeaning' them. There's a gulf in class and it showed on the night.

Modric is arguably the midfielder of his generation, while Rakitic has been holding his own winning Champions Leagues and consecutive La Liga's in the same midfield/attack as Messi and Iniesta for the last 5 years. You're talking about the best of the best.

'For me it took too long for the Croats to equalise, let alone win'.

I can't tell if you're joking with that one! Should a team have to equalise before a certain time to prove they are the better team? And if they only win in injury time, that means they haven't showed their class? How about winning on penalties like England did with Colombia?

As regards Colombian tactics, I am well aware of the media's party line but I simply don't agree with it. To use a phrase such as 'Colombian brutality' is just flat-out incorrect. Have you ever served jury service?  ;D


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: ClarenceUpFront on July 12, 2018, 22:00:13 pm
I'm born and bred in Northampton, I support my local team. But, i'm also English and always hope for the National team to do well. This World Cup they did the nation proud. What is wrong with supporting both England & NTFC - I just don't get some people.


There's nothing wrong with it. Personally I'm just indifferent to the outcome, like some people are indifferent to the outcome of the Olympics or any other international sporting events I guess.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: OCoole on July 13, 2018, 00:17:33 am
God knows where to start with this one!

The England players were outclassed. You can't honestly think that Henderson, Ali and Lingard are even close to the same level of Modric, Rakitic, and Perisic, or that either Maguire or Stones is a good a centre-back as Vida etc. This isn't 'demeaning' them. There's a gulf in class and it showed on the night.


You're wrong here. John Stones is a absolutely brilliant ball-playing centre-back. Without him there is no way England could have played the style they did throughout the World Cup; every move started through him! Vida is good also but not as special a player.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: DrillingCobbler on July 13, 2018, 08:32:57 am
My observations…

I felt that, until Wednesday night….we 'managed' our way through quite nicely, albeit against (in the main) moderate competition. BUT. You can only beat whose put in front of you!

The group games:

Tunisia…battered them first half, then struggled. But definitely deserved the win, albeit earned in the last minute. 7/10.

Panama…chances all went in. One of those days. I thought we played better in the first half V Tunisa than we did in this match but you can't argue with 5-0 at HT! Regardless of the opposition. 7/10.

Belgium…irrelevant. Id have done the same, fielded a 2nd 1x.

Columbia…felt we definitely deserved the win. A better ref would have ensured we'd have won it comfortably in normal time. They scored at the bitter end, despite never looking likely to score. That goal 'was one of those things'. We did look leggy in the first half of extra time but sorted ourselves in the 2nd period.  7/10.

Sweden…Easily our best performance of the World Cup, and most controlled. Comfortable. 8/10.

Croatia. First 30 minutes - excellent. Got deeper and deeper. 2nd half and extra time - Id go as far as saying we were rubbish! I've said for many years, the worst time to score is in the first 5 minutes. It relaxes the opposition and the winning team gets nervous. What I found frustrating was the lack of proactive changes made by the management; Id have brought on an enforcer 5-10 minutes into the 2nd half to help Henderson screen the defence and for us to try and take some control of the midfield area. Like for like sub Sterling/Rashford was never going to work and it didn't. The last hour of play was on a par with the performance against Iceland. Indeed, much of the game reminded me of that match…early goal, all over them, got deeper…and deeper…misplaced passes, the inevitable happened. 5/10.

Overall, we had a good world cup. I wouldn't go as far as saying it was amazing, we didn't beat a big team. BUT. What we have is a first x1 that I believe can improve significantly and give it a real go in 2-4 years time. They precisely met my expectations pre-tournament in the sense that we had a decent run and came away having given us hope for the future. I never believed they were good enough to win it this time round, that said I did get carried away with it all, I had my flags in the front windows etc! Its been a dam good 3 weeks. Our future looks bright for once!



Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: rebelspawn on July 13, 2018, 08:33:03 am
God knows where to start with this one!

The England players were outclassed. You can't honestly think that Henderson, Ali and Lingard are even close to the same level of Modric, Rakitic, and Perisic, or that either Maguire or Stones is a good a centre-back as Vida etc. This isn't 'demeaning' them. There's a gulf in class and it showed on the night.

Modric is arguably the midfielder of his generation, while Rakitic has been holding his own winning Champions Leagues and consecutive La Liga's in the same midfield/attack as Messi and Iniesta for the last 5 years. You're talking about the best of the best.

'For me it took too long for the Croats to equalise, let alone win'.

I can't tell if you're joking with that one! Should a team have to equalise before a certain time to prove they are the better team? And if they only win in injury time, that means they haven't showed their class? How about winning on penalties like England did with Colombia?

As regards Colombian tactics, I am well aware of the media's party line but I simply don't agree with it. To use a phrase such as 'Colombian brutality' is just flat-out incorrect. Have you ever served jury service?  ;D

I agree with your summary of the Croatia game pretty much

But 23 fouls to 13 and 6 yellow cards to 2 plus a penalty conceded suggests 'Colombian brutality' is a reasonable comment to make without even considering the general behavior of their players, particularly Falcao, both during play and stoppages.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: WasRambo on July 13, 2018, 10:16:21 am
My observations…

I felt that, until Wednesday night….we 'managed' our way through quite nicely, albeit against (in the main) moderate competition. BUT. You can only beat whose put in front of you!

The group games:

Tunisia…battered them first half, then struggled. But definitely deserved the win, albeit earned in the last minute. 7/10.

Panama…chances all went in. One of those days. I thought we played better in the first half V Tunisa than we did in this match but you can't argue with 5-0 at HT! Regardless of the opposition. 7/10.

Belgium…irrelevant. Id have done the same, fielded a 2nd 1x.

Columbia…felt we definitely deserved the win. A better ref would have ensured we'd have won it comfortably in normal time. They scored at the bitter end, despite never looking likely to score. That goal 'was one of those things'. We did look leggy in the first half of extra time but sorted ourselves in the 2nd period.  7/10.

Sweden…Easily our best performance of the World Cup, and most controlled. Comfortable. 8/10.

Croatia. First 30 minutes - excellent. Got deeper and deeper. 2nd half and extra time - Id go as far as saying we were rubbish! I've said for many years, the worst time to score is in the first 5 minutes. It relaxes the opposition and the winning team gets nervous. What I found frustrating was the lack of proactive changes made by the management; Id have brought on an enforcer 5-10 minutes into the 2nd half to help Henderson screen the defence and for us to try and take some control of the midfield area. Like for like sub Sterling/Rashford was never going to work and it didn't. The last hour of play was on a par with the performance against Iceland. Indeed, much of the game reminded me of that match…early goal, all over them, got deeper…and deeper…misplaced passes, the inevitable happened. 5/10.

Overall, we had a good world cup. I wouldn't go as far as saying it was amazing, we didn't beat a big team. BUT. What we have is a first x1 that I believe can improve significantly and give it a real go in 2-4 years time. They precisely met my expectations pre-tournament in the sense that we had a decent run and came away having given us hope for the future. I never believed they were good enough to win it this time round, that said I did get carried away with it all, I had my flags in the front windows etc! Its been a dam good 3 weeks. Our future looks bright for once!



This.

I posted a very similar set of observations on FB after the game on Wednesday.

This World Cup has been a great watch - very few dull matches and VAR definitely added some spice. The truth is though, the big teams are not as good as they were and the lesser teams are a bit better - the gap has closed.

As for England, we seemed to start games really well but rarely saw it through as stylishly as the start suggested we would / could.

Whilst the "reconnect" is encouraging, the majority have got a bit carried away: We struggled past Tunisia, battered the worst team in the tournament then had a dead rubber against Belgium.

We then struggled again to get past a second tier South American side in Colombia. Whilst I wouldn't call them brutal, they definitely dabbled in the dark arts....

Then to Sweden. A funny one this, we were in total control but I wouldn't say we were devastating. Sweden were in the main really poor and nowhere near their usual robust selves. Still, it was a sweet win.

What happened then was people started thinking Croatia would be a pushover - worn-out from two 120 minute plus games.

The difference here is whilst England were undoubtedly well organised, Croatia, as always, have some real class players. I've always rated the Croats, though their main problem has always been that they are (were) always guaranteed to throw a bad game in and it ultimately causes them to go out.

What the semi showed up is where England are still a few steps behind the top teams - midfield.

I thought the keeper and defence were immense this tournament. For a young sextet (ironically Young excluded) they showed real confidence. I was never really worried about them. The twonk who rates Maguire as deficient and an accident waiting to happen must have been watching a different player to me. He, along with Trippier and Pickford were the ones who stood out. I'll even pass over that Pickford should have saved against Belgium and Trippier should have cleared off the line against Colombia - they were that good otherwise.

Stones was solid, Walker steady (though still has much to learn about defending crosses). young was okay - I'd have preferred Rose from the start tbh.

Kane started well but the euphoria of the late winner v Tunisia flatters. He was immense though against Colombia - won everything and drew foul after foul. He really did tire though. I'm not going to bash him for missing in the semi - up to then he was 100%. We really do need to find someone to support him though - Vardy is not that man - he's had his 5 minutes of fame.

And so to the midfield. Firstly, we have to remember quite how young and inexperienced they are. We shouldn't really expect them to control the midfield against the likes of Modric and Rakitic, it was never going to happen. That said, Lingard Alli and Sterling as a trio puts too much on Henderson and this showed Wednesday. I think we could have done with Dier in for Lingard and maybe even Loftus Cheek for Alli. That might sound negative and I can see why Southgate stuck but I think he was a bit naive.

Modric / Croatia were clever, they were anonymous first half but took over second. Anyone who had watched our first five games knew we started fast but had a tendency to blow ourselves out, it wasn't rocket science.

However, let's not be too down - we did exceed expectations, part by luck, part by the fact that we do have some decent young players and a progressive manager. We should indeed be hopeful for the future


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: Poggy on July 13, 2018, 10:33:03 am
England did well to reach the semis with the limitations of the squad.

They need to play a left footed player at wing back. When Croatia pressed Young he didn't have the time to cut back onto his right foot.

I think the formation works well against the lesser teams but we need to develop a plan B as the midfield can be overrun and strikers isolated.

I don't think England will ever produce a Modric type carrier of the ball but we desperately need someone who can connect the midfield and attack. Lingard and Alli are not technically good enough for this.

I just hope that some of these players who have won all these youth tournaments with England get given some game time in the coming years.

The squad will have benefited massively from this experience similar to which the French / Croats have had in previous tournaments so when the chance arises again we know how to manage our way through a game better.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: Deepcut Cobbler on July 13, 2018, 10:51:12 am
It has been said that Phil Foden will be our 'special' player in a few years, some have compared him to Gazza even at this early stage.
Hopefully not too much is expected too soon and his potential is allowed to come to fruition naturally.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: clarkeysntfc on July 13, 2018, 12:10:25 pm
It has been said that Phil Foden will be our 'special' player in a few years, some have compared him to Gazza even at this early stage.
Hopefully not too much is expected too soon and his potential is allowed to come to fruition naturally.

Sadly he'll be held back by Man City's ability to buy in foreign talent at will.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: everbrite on July 13, 2018, 13:17:54 pm

The twonk who rates Maguire as deficient and an accident waiting to happen must have been watching a different player to me..................................................................


 ;D  - You have a way of putting things in perspective. More please.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: Poggy on July 13, 2018, 13:23:55 pm
Sadly he'll be held back by Man City's ability to buy in foreign talent at will.

They have just signed Mahrez from Leicester so he'll likely drop further down the pecking order.

It's good to see a few youngsters going to play abroad like Sancho @ Dortmund. He'll be in the England squad for the next tournament


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: barton cobbler on July 13, 2018, 13:24:26 pm
England only really had 1 great chance, which fell to Kane in the 1st half. What about Lingards chance that he put wide?They had 3-4 half-chances over the course of the 90, but then Croatia had a number of very good chances The one they hit the post with and ?and multiple half chances as well. England 2 shots on target to Croatia's 7. Personally I think it's a bit of a stretch to suggest England deserved to win, only testing the keeper once more after the goal in almost 120 minutes of football.

Any examples of the Colombia 'brutality'? If you're thinking of the penalty, on close inspection the ref got it wrong, and the foul should have actually gone against Kane who was all over SanchezI suggest that most people watching it, the VAR people and the ref think YOU have got it wrong. The 'headbutt' on Henderson was provoked by both Henderson and Lingard. Henderson was leaning heavily on the defender who tried to shrug him off. That he caught the underside of Henderson's chin with the top of his head was, IMO, accidental.The Columbian went back with his head and when he realised he was too low he went up for Hendersons chin, accidental my ar*e

I agree with the view that England were fortunate to beat Colombia. England again only 2 shots on target, one of which was the penalty, which on close inspection can be shown to be an erroneous decision. Colombia were missing their best player, who is possibly one of the top 5 creative midfielders in the world. Colombia also were the better team in the 2nd half and were pretty dominant towards the end of the 90, and also for much of ET as well.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: ClarenceUpFront on July 13, 2018, 13:55:43 pm
The twonk who rates Maguire as deficient and an accident waiting to happen must have been watching a different player to me. He, along with Trippier and Pickford were the ones who stood out. I'll even pass over that Pickford should have saved against Belgium and Trippier should have cleared off the line against Colombia - they were that good otherwise.

Really? Quick list:

Was sleeping against Colombia during the 'two-balls-on-pitch' incident, where there wasn't two balls on the pitch and was very lucky (to say the least) the ref pulled back play otherwise Colombia would have been in. Schoolboy lack of concentration.

Totally lost Mina in the box at a corner in ET, resorted to using both hands to shove him slightly off balance as he tried to head the ball. Ref right on the spot, was probably the 1/10 times a ref wouldn't give a penalty.

Lost/was totally out-jumped by Mina for the Colombian equaliser, effectively only 10 minutes or so before the second error mentioned above. Funny how you attribute blame to Trippier, when I would suggest Maguire was much more at fault.

Began to lose Mandzukic in the semi-final at the end of 1st half. Put arm over his shoulder to hold him back, should have been a penalty.

Almost lost his temper against Panama, squaring up forehead-to-forehead with their defender even though England were already winning comfortably, could have easily been an unnecessary card which could have eventually led to a suspension.

These serious errors quickly come to mind, all bar one he was very fortunate to get away without costing a goal.

Hence my opinion that he is an accident waiting to happen. If that makes me a 'twonk' then so be it!


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: claretparrot on July 13, 2018, 14:17:23 pm
Really? Quick list:

Was sleeping against Colombia during the 'two-balls-on-pitch' incident, where there wasn't two balls on the pitch and was very lucky (to say the least) the ref pulled back play otherwise Colombia would have been in. Schoolboy lack of concentration.

Totally lost Mina in the box at a corner in ET, resorted to using both hands to shove him slightly off balance as he tried to head the ball. Ref right on the spot, was probably the 1/10 times a ref wouldn't give a penalty.

Lost/was totally out-jumped by Mina for the Colombian equaliser, effectively only 10 minutes or so before the second error mentioned above. Funny how you attribute blame to Trippier, when I would suggest Maguire was much more at fault.

Began to lose Mandzukic in the semi-final at the end of 1st half. Put arm over his shoulder to hold him back, should have been a penalty.

Almost lost his temper against Panama, squaring up forehead-to-forehead with their defender even though England were already winning comfortably, could have easily been an unnecessary card which could have eventually led to a suspension.

These serious errors quickly come to mind, all bar one he was very fortunate to get away without costing a goal.

Hence my opinion that he is an accident waiting to happen. If that makes me a 'twonk' then so be it!

I agree re the Colombia equaliser, otherwise though I think you're being pretty harsh.

For the 'two ball' incident, I'd argue Young should have greater awareness and not take the throw. Either way, this was a fairly unique scenario - even the lino was completely distracted - not really a proper basis to judge a player.

The rest of your examples are all fouls/disciplinary issues which, of course, we will all see differently. I'd note though that VAR will have reviewed and could have called the ref back to reconsider either of your 'clear' penalties. It doesn't mean you're wrong but does mean the referee and four VAR officials all disagree with you, as do I.

Going into the tournament I saw Maguire as the standout weak link in that defence, but I am willing to admit I was completely wrong. At times he was a colossus in the air and his ability to stay calm and carry or pass when others would have hoofed clear was, for me, very impressive.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: WasRambo on July 13, 2018, 15:43:26 pm
Really? Quick list:

Was sleeping against Colombia during the 'two-balls-on-pitch' incident, where there wasn't two balls on the pitch and was very lucky (to say the least) the ref pulled back play otherwise Colombia would have been in. Schoolboy lack of concentration.

Even if the ref hadn't pulled back, no guarantee they would have scored. You can't really criticise on "what might have been"

Totally lost Mina in the box at a corner in ET, resorted to using both hands to shove him slightly off balance as he tried to head the ball. Ref right on the spot, was probably the 1/10 times a ref wouldn't give a penalty.

Ref didn't blow so no foul, no harm. Again, your opinion based on what might have been

Lost/was totally out-jumped by Mina for the Colombian equaliser, effectively only 10 minutes or so before the second error mentioned above. Funny how you attribute blame to Trippier, when I would suggest Maguire was much more at fault.

If you expect a defender to pick up his player every time throughout his career you have a problem around managing your expectations. If this was actually doable, you'd never see a goal from a corner. Ever. You can argue that a forward should always have the advantage on a defender at set plays. They probably do given the majority of holding you see is defender on attacker. I think that says it all around who holds the upper hand. As for the Trippier thing, if he'd stood up the ball would have hit him in the throat. He ducked under it to try and go up on the ball and lift it over the bar. He was too close to the goal line to do that but last minute, 1-0 up, I can understand how he lost his bearings...

Began to lose Mandzukic in the semi-final at the end of 1st half. Put arm over his shoulder to hold him back, should have been a penalty.

Just another opinion. I'm sure the VAR team are better placed and better qualified than you. Not sure they even whispered in the refs ear?

Almost lost his temper against Panama, squaring up forehead-to-forehead with their defender even though England were already winning comfortably, could have easily been an unnecessary card which could have eventually led to a suspension.

Given the provocation of a very niggly opposition, you could actually change "almost lost his temper" to "did well to control his temper" but given you're clearly on a Maguire witchhunt, I can see how you choose the former. Again, never even got a yellow so your "potential" red seems a bit OTT

These serious errors quickly come to mind, all bar one he was very fortunate to get away without costing a goal.

Hence my opinion that he is an accident waiting to happen. If that makes me a 'twonk' then so be it!

Yep, they make you a twonk. Be happy in your skin....


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: everbrite on July 13, 2018, 15:49:32 pm
Really? Quick list:

Was sleeping against Colombia during the 'two-balls-on-pitch' incident, where there wasn't two balls on the pitch and was very lucky (to say the least) the ref pulled back play otherwise Colombia would have been in. Schoolboy lack of concentration.

Totally lost Mina in the box at a corner in ET, resorted to using both hands to shove him slightly off balance as he tried to head the ball. Ref right on the spot, was probably the 1/10 times a ref wouldn't give a penalty.

Lost/was totally out-jumped by Mina for the Colombian equaliser, effectively only 10 minutes or so before the second error mentioned above. Funny how you attribute blame to Trippier, when I would suggest Maguire was much more at fault.

Began to lose Mandzukic in the semi-final at the end of 1st half. Put arm over his shoulder to hold him back, should have been a penalty.

Almost lost his temper against Panama, squaring up forehead-to-forehead with their defender even though England were already winning comfortably, could have easily been an unnecessary card which could have eventually led to a suspension.

These serious errors quickly come to mind, all bar one he was very fortunate to get away without costing a goal.

Hence my opinion that he is an accident waiting to happen. If that makes me a 'twonk' then so be it!

We are but armchair critics and your forthright views often grates against better informed view points - that is those who were there including reporters.. You have made your point so it might be a good idea to simpy ignore your critics and do as you say concentrate on the Cobblers.... mind you God help us 8)


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: just.reading on July 13, 2018, 15:53:45 pm
They have just signed Mahrez from Leicester so he'll likely drop further down the pecking order.

It's good to see a few youngsters going to play abroad like Sancho @ Dortmund. He'll be in the England squad for the next tournament

I get your point but Mahrez is a winger and Foden is a CM. He made 10 appearances for them last year at just 17; I think he will break into their first team much more next season. Maybe too early for an England call up but postentially a star for Man City and England by the next world cup (maybe even the Euros).


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: ClarenceUpFront on July 13, 2018, 17:12:34 pm
'England only really had 1 great chance, which fell to Kane in the 1st half. They had 3-4 half-chances over the course of the 90'

What about Lingards chance that he put wide? - That was one of the half-chances I referred to, outside the box, defenders in the way. Rebic I think it was had similar in the 1st, put it straight at the keeper.

but then Croatia had a number of very good chances and multiple half chances as well. England 2 shots on target to Croatia's 7. Personally I think it's a bit of a stretch to suggest England deserved to win, only testing the keeper once more after the goal in almost 120 minutes of football.

The one they hit the post with and ? - The goal, the one that hit the post, Mandzukic chance at 1-1 where he half-volleyed it at the keeper and should have done better, the Pickford save with his leg in ET. That's 4 great chances in open play. Numerous 'half-chances' too.

'I suggest that most people watching it, the VAR people and the ref think YOU have got it wrong.' VAR didn't call red for the Barrios incident. Most seem to think the VAR got that wrong.

The Columbian went back with his head and when he realised he was too low he went up for Henderson's chin, accidental my ar*e
Flat out wrong. Lingard and Henderson were deliberately provoking Barrios, Henderson leaned strongly into Barrios and Barrios just shrugged him off of in return, Henderson made a meal of it. The catch on the bottom of Henderson's chin was unintended and incidental contact in the motion of shrugging Henderson off of him. Watch the whole incident in normal time to see what really happened.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: ClarenceUpFront on July 13, 2018, 17:21:21 pm
Yep, they make you a twonk. Be happy in your skin....

I made one short statement of my opinion that Maguire was an accident waiting to happen. You resorted to insults, so I gave an explanation citing examples for why I held my opinion. It's not a 'witch-hunt'. You're also resorting to insults again. Poor form.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: ClarenceUpFront on July 13, 2018, 17:31:25 pm
We are but armchair critics and your forthright views often grates against better informed view points - that is those who were there including reporters.. You have made your point so it might be a good idea to simpy ignore your critics and do as you say concentrate on the Cobblers.... mind you God help us 8)

Better informed viewpoints, such as? The English media? They're mostly following a party line, possibly because the tournament's in Russia and with the political situation they want to be overly positive. The commentator on ITV was nauseating during England games for example. The commentary never used to be as biased as it is now.

Here's one well-informed viewpoint which is a good general overview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqcwiSS3Hsg


Oh, and I've been quite positive about Cobblers chances this season, certainly more than some, as you can tell by looking at my posts!


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: Tabasco Kid on July 13, 2018, 19:48:26 pm
I get your point but Mahrez is a winger and Foden is a CM. He made 10 appearances for them last year at just 17; I think he will break into their first team much more next season. Maybe too early for an England call up but postentially a star for Man City and England by the next world cup (maybe even the Euros).
The Daily Mail this morning, reported that Foden was invited along with the squad, to gain experience. Clearly, he is rated very highly.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: Tabasco Kid on July 13, 2018, 20:33:27 pm
Overall, I enjoyed the tournament. Yes we were lacking in certain areas, but Southgate can only work with what he has at his disposal.
But, under 17s world champions 2017, under 20s world champions 2017, suggests that St Georges Park, may be starting to justify its expense. The kids are nearly ready, and Southgate aint afraid to use them.
I watched the Columbia game, in a boozer in Croydon. Afterwards, at East Croydon station waiting for my train, the place filled up with people coming out of Boxpark. Every single one of them was soaked to the skin in beer. They looked they been swimming in it. But, they were ecstatic.
I doubt that I would witnessed the same euphoria after the South Africa, or Brazil debacles.
We have something to look forward to, in the near future.
I think that this is the Croatia game, but you get the picture.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsZtEerwqks


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: Dr Feelgood on July 14, 2018, 01:20:50 am
3rd Place is coming home!!!!


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: Oversees on July 14, 2018, 04:10:20 am
Unless they defect, they will all be coming home!

Just nice to see that England are now only 4 years behind the rest of the world in terms of tactics, instead of 4 light years.

Nice to see an England manager sticking to their guns, even though the opposition have changed game plan mid-game.

Nice to see England players collapsing with fatigue against a team that has just played their 3rd 120 minute game in a week.

Nice to see a totally inept England midfield.

Nice to see England firing blanks.

Nice to see England forgetting to attack the ball when defending.

Nice to see England in the semis on merit.

Nice to see England in the 3rd place play-offs.

Nice to see our captain accept the "Golden Boot" with his arse-cheeks.

Nice to see that England players can play a 20 yard pass deep inside their own half when no opposition player is on the pitch.

Nice to see that being an England midfield player involves keeping possession of the ball for less than 3 micro-seconds in a World Cup semi.

Nice to see that niceness over-rules ineptitude.

Nice to see you, to see you, nice!





Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: everbrite on July 14, 2018, 10:24:08 am
Better informed viewpoints, such as? The English media? They're mostly following a party line, possibly because the tournament's in Russia and with the political situation they want to be overly positive. The commentator on ITV was nauseating during England games for example. The commentary never used to be as biased as it is now.

Here's one well-informed viewpoint which is a good general overview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqcwiSS3Hsg


Oh, and I've been quite positive about Cobblers chances this season, certainly more than some, as you can tell by looking at my posts!

Well if that’s your idea of informed view by 2 or 3  Scottish Pundits then God help us !  Souness ok to begin with but was slowly taken apart by the foreign guy who reined him in.  You did well to locate that judgement panel - which TV group/station was that.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: Carlo Corazzins Corduroy on July 14, 2018, 13:21:51 pm
Well if that’s your idea of informed view by 2 or 3  Scottish Pundits then God help us !  Souness ok to begin with but was slowly taken apart by the foreign guy who reined him in.  You did well to locate that judgement panel - which TV group/station was that.

What part do you actually disagree with Souness over? His point was England didn't have a central midfielder that can retain possession well, and you need that to do well in the final stages. I don't see what being Scottish has anything to do with it.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: Teachers Pet on July 14, 2018, 13:47:13 pm
Unless they defect, they will all be coming home!

Just nice to see that England are now only 4 years behind the rest of the world in terms of tactics, instead of 4 light years.

Nice to see an England manager sticking to their guns, even though the opposition have changed game plan mid-game.

Nice to see England players collapsing with fatigue against a team that has just played their 3rd 120 minute game in a week.

Nice to see a totally inept England midfield.

Nice to see England firing blanks.

Nice to see England forgetting to attack the ball when defending.

Nice to see England in the semis on merit.

Nice to see England in the 3rd place play-offs.

Nice to see our captain accept the "Golden Boot" with his arse-cheeks.

Nice to see that England players can play a 20 yard pass deep inside their own half when no opposition player is on the pitch.

Nice to see that being an England midfield player involves keeping possession of the ball for less than 3 micro-seconds in a World Cup semi.

Nice to see that niceness over-rules ineptitude.

Nice to see you, to see you, nice!





Nice to see you being as stupid as ever.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: everbrite on July 14, 2018, 22:59:51 pm
What part do you actually disagree with Souness over? His point was England didn't have a central midfielder that can retain possession well, and you need that to do well in the final stages. I don't see what being Scottish has anything to do with it.

Souness was saying the obvious we know that the midfield was deficient - the foreign guy told him so and after near argument reined him in.
IMO not sure you would get fair/reasonable comment from Souness(Scottish) who appeared to have an axe to grind.  Being Scottish of course had nothing to do with it;or did it for you?


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: ClarenceUpFront on July 15, 2018, 11:21:06 am
Well if that’s your idea of informed view by 2 or 3  Scottish Pundits then God help us !  Souness ok to begin with but was slowly taken apart by the foreign guy who reined him in.  You did well to locate that judgement panel - which TV group/station was that.

What's being Scottish got to do with it?

Only 2 were Scottish, and Gray offered little opinion during the video, so just Souness. Paul Robinson is English and didn't disagree with Souness, while the presenter, Keys (English) didn't either.

The foreign guy you mention is German, Stefan Freund. Ex-Spurs player and was their assistant manager until very recently and may still be a technical director, wiki doesn't make it clear. There were 5 Spurs players on the pitch come end of the match, and one ex-Spurs. He likely coached all these so will of course likely stick up for them. I disagree that Souness was 'slowly taken apart' by Freund, his arguments were pretty feeble e.g. 'Come on, they all play for top clubs!'



Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: Carlo Corazzins Corduroy on July 15, 2018, 12:35:49 pm
Souness was saying the obvious we know that the midfield was deficient - the foreign guy told him so and after near argument reined him in.
IMO not sure you would get fair/reasonable comment from Souness(Scottish) who appeared to have an axe to grind.  Being Scottish of course had nothing to do with it;or did it for you?

I don't really understand - you agree that his point was obvious but also think he has an axe to grind? If pundits aren't allowed to say anything other than 'THE LADS DONE GOOD' then why bother having them on there.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: everbrite on July 15, 2018, 13:16:22 pm
I don't really understand - you agree that his point was obvious but also think he has an axe to grind? If pundits aren't allowed to say anything other than 'THE LADS DONE GOOD' then why bother having them on there.

Not quite sure what you don’t understand? It’s my opinion that’s all. You have to know Souness background and I still think he has an axe to grind! I know, you know and certainly Clarence knows that our midfield was lacking. To belabour the point is hardly even debatable! Reference to Scottish is a bit of a red herring but I guess it went over yr head!


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: everbrite on July 15, 2018, 13:26:24 pm
What's being Scottish got to do with it?

Only 2 were Scottish, and Gray offered little opinion during the video, so just Souness. Paul Robinson is English and didn't disagree with Souness, while the presenter, Keys (English) didn't either.

The foreign guy you mention is German, Stefan Freund. Ex-Spurs player and was their assistant manager until very recently and may still be a technical director, wiki doesn't make it clear. There were 5 Spurs players on the pitch come end of the match, and one ex-Spurs. He likely coached all these so will of course likely stick up for them. I disagree that Souness was 'slowly taken apart' by Freund, his arguments were pretty feeble e.g. 'Come on, they all play for top clubs!'


Nothing - it’s a red herring!With Gray he merely refused to be drawn on Souness POV , refer to it by all means ; talk about the obvious! As you may know Souness is generally an argumentative s%d, concentrating on the obvious and making it an issue - Wow! no wonder Gray had the iq to basically ignore it.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: ClarenceUpFront on July 15, 2018, 14:07:22 pm
Nothing - it’s a red herring!With Gray he merely refused to be drawn on Souness POV , refer to it by all means ; talk about the obvious! As you may know Souness is generally an argumentative s%d, concentrating on the obvious and making it an issue - Wow! no wonder Gray had the iq to basically ignore it.

You sure like to back-track/shift-the-goal-posts/take-discussion-points-out-context!  ;)

Earlier in the thread I pointed out that Croatia outclassed England overall and you took exception to it. Now regarding choosing to speak about or not choosing to speak about this issue you bring IQ into the equation! I thought the 'foreign' guy 'took Souness and his opinions apart'? How did he do this if on the other hand Gray had the IQ to basically ignore Souness' blatantly-obvious-to-everyone and not-in-debate points? Can such obvious opinions be 'ripped apart'? ;D


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: Carlo Corazzins Corduroy on July 15, 2018, 14:14:24 pm
Not quite sure what you don’t understand? It’s my opinion that’s all. You have to know Souness background and I still think he has an axe to grind! I know, you know and certainly Clarence knows that our midfield was lacking. To belabour the point is hardly even debatable! Reference to Scottish is a bit of a red herring but I guess it went over yr head!

It's not even a dissenting opinion though. It's essentially agreeing while also being annoyed it's mentioned by someone you perceive as bias against England.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: everbrite on July 15, 2018, 19:18:28 pm
It's not even a dissenting opinion though. It's essentially agreeing while also being annoyed it's mentioned by someone you perceive as bias against England.

Sorry not quite sure what you are saying. Essentially my opinion is that Souness hung his hat quite correctly on a relatively weak English midfield. But he would not let go he made his point and wanted it to be the main discussion. Gray at best was bored and the German guy actually defused the situation. I suppose if it had been Strachan it might have been more balanced and realistic


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: everbrite on July 15, 2018, 22:32:59 pm
You sure like to back-track/shift-the-goal-posts/take-discussion-points-out-context!  ;)

Earlier in the thread I pointed out that Croatia outclassed England overall and you took exception to it. Now regarding choosing to speak about or not choosing to speak about this issue you bring IQ into the equation! I thought the 'foreign' guy 'took Souness and his opinions apart'? How did he do this if on the other hand Gray had the IQ to basically ignore Souness' blatantly-obvious-to-everyone and not-in-debate points? Can such obvious opinions be 'ripped apart'? ;D

I am not making fun of you but you do take yourself very seriously which I suppose we are all guilty of from time to time. I still dont think Croatia outclassed us at least not in the way France did to them today. I only watched the 2nd half and they(Cr) looked like conceding every time France attacked. France were generally very direct when the  opportunity arose. I dont think Croatia were direct enough so enabling France to defend quite well/easily. I still think Croatia got to the final more via our failure to put away two decent chances one of which Kane failed to do.
No fancy talk and convoluted opinion in defence of Classy Croatia should change that. I look forward to your comments on Cobblers games this coming season with a mixture of forefoding and anticipation.


Title: Re: It's not coming home
Post by: Oversees on July 15, 2018, 23:03:20 pm
Clear from tonight, with technology available, that football is all about money.

Better to watch theatre than spend emotion on a game decided before the teams kick-off.

I am never going to spend money on watching football ever again.  It is now a farce.

Unless every commentator is in the pay of Uefa/Fifa..... is it just me that thought that France were ****, and deserved to have the floor wiped with them?


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: ClarenceUpFront on July 16, 2018, 00:12:16 am
I am not making fun of you but you do take yourself very seriously which I suppose we are all guilty of from time to time. I still dont think Croatia outclassed us at least not in the way France did to them today. I only watched the 2nd half and they(Cr) looked like conceding every time France attacked. France were generally very direct when the  opportunity arose. I dont think Croatia were direct enough so enabling France to defend quite well/easily. I still think Croatia got to the final more via our failure to put away two decent chances one of which Kane failed to do.
No fancy talk and convoluted opinion in defence of Classy Croatia should change that. I look forward to your comments on Cobblers games this coming season with a mixture of forefoding and anticipation.

They really need a spit-your-tea-out-over-the-screen 'emoji' thingymebob for moments like these. I'll just have to do with  :-\ !







Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: ClarenceUpFront on July 16, 2018, 00:23:43 am
Sorry not quite sure what you are saying. Essentially my opinion is that Souness hung his hat quite correctly on a relatively weak English midfield. But he would not let go he made his point and wanted it to be the main discussion. Gray at best was bored and the German guy actually defused the situation. I suppose if it had been Strachan it might have been more balanced and realistic

Hang about, I thought that it was 2-3 Scottish guys putting the 'biased' boot into England, now it's Souness the sole-voice and Gray being bored and refusing to engage? And I thought the 'German guy' 'tore' Souness 'apart', now he 'defused the situation'? Can you defuse a situation by 'tearing' someone apart? What 'situation' needed 'defusing'? Are there two separate videos and I've only seen one of them? ;D

Do you think if the 'German guy' had not been on ex-Spurs player and very recent (and possibly present) coach at said club also but a German who had not played for Spurs would his opinion have been more balanced and realistic?

Right, now I'm off to blow-dry my :afro !




Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: everbrite on July 16, 2018, 09:43:32 am
Hang about, I thought that it was 2-3 Scottish guys putting the 'biased' boot into England, now it's Souness the sole-voice and Gray being bored and refusing to engage? And I thought the 'German guy' 'tore' Souness 'apart', now he 'defused the situation'? Can you defuse a situation by 'tearing' someone apart? What 'situation' needed 'defusing'? Are there two separate videos and I've only seen one of them? ;D

Do you think if the 'German guy' had not been on ex-Spurs player and very recent (and possibly present) coach at said club also but a German who had not played for Spurs would his opinion have been more balanced and realistic?

Right, now I'm off to blow-dry my :afro !


Who mentioned ‘tore’  as it was ‘slowly taken apart’. Big difference . Who mentioned bias? The unfortunate German guy is now an ‘agent provocateur’ you are making it up as you go along! Please have the last word ‘Frank’ ? as we are in danger of boring any readers stiff.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: ClarenceUpFront on July 16, 2018, 11:54:29 am
Who mentioned ‘tore’  as it was ‘slowly taken apart’. Big difference . Who mentioned bias? The unfortunate German guy is now an ‘agent provocateur’ you are making it up as you go along! Please have the last word ‘Frank’ ? as we are in danger of boring any readers stiff.

You bought up that there 2-3 Scottish pundits, implying their nationality somehow had a negative baring on their analysis on the game. i.e. 'bias'. You've also said you felt Souness 'had an axe to grind' i.e. strongly implied he was being 'biased' in his analysis for some reason.

German guy now an 'agent provocateur'? How have I implied that? What are you on about? As I've said he's a Spurs man, almost half the England team who featured in the match were Spurs or ex-Spurs players who he probably coached, so he tried to stick-up for them.

OK. 'slowly taken apart' as opposed to 'torn' apart! The difference has little to no effect on my original point. You stated that he 'slowly took apart' Souness, then switched that to 'defused the situation'. They are not compatible. If you want to to 'defuse a situation' you do not do that by 'slowly taking apart' the other guy, which I would suggest would have the opposite effect of 'defusing' the 'situation'. Which is it?

Good sport this.  ;)



Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: everbrite on July 20, 2018, 10:56:28 am
You bought up that there 2-3 Scottish pundits, implying their nationality somehow had a negative baring on their analysis on the game. i.e. 'bias'. You've also said you felt Souness 'had an axe to grind' i.e. strongly implied he was being 'biased' in his analysis for some reason.

German guy now an 'agent provocateur'? How have I implied that? What are you on about? As I've said he's a Spurs man, almost half the England team who featured in the match were Spurs or ex-Spurs players who he probably coached, so he tried to stick-up for them.

OK. 'slowly taken apart' as opposed to 'torn' apart! The difference has little to no effect on my original point. You stated that he 'slowly took apart' Souness, then switched that to 'defused the situation'. They are not compatible. If you want to to 'defuse a situation' you do not do that by 'slowly taking apart' the other guy, which I would suggest would have the opposite effect of 'defusing' the 'situation'. Which is it?

Good sport this.  ;)


Implying, bias etc all conjecture on your part. Now Frank behave yourself and pack up these defensive replies.


Title: Re: It's coming home
Post by: ClarenceUpFront on July 20, 2018, 13:16:00 pm
Implying, bias etc all conjecture on your part. Now Frank behave yourself and pack up these defensive replies.

So why did you bring up their nationality? Do you think Scottish ex-professional's know less about football than ex-professionals from other nationalities? What else did you mean when you stated that Souness had an axe to grind, if not that his opinion was being led by bias? It's not conjecture.

How can slowly taking someone apart be the same as 'defusing' a situation? And what situation needed defusing?

Why are you calling me Frank?  ???

'Defensive replies'?  ::) I think you're a fan of the 'best-form-of-defence-is-attack' tactic!  ;)