The Hotel End

So, I have read absolute blither from folk who have clearly never seen beyond their beer-bellies.

Hoskins does, repeat DOES see what is happening around him.

He does look up.

He is aware.

But, when you are a few paces quicker than everyone else, do the REST OF YOUR TEAM react properly?

If he buried every half-chance that the mithering millions complain about...... he would be in Barcelona's side ahead of Messi.

I have seen quality professionals booed out of Northampton Town, who have then gone on to be "successes" beyond our wildest dreams.

Please don't make Hoskins the next who goes on to a higher level on a free & p1sses over our dreams.

As I've said in a previous post, which may have been deleted by the mods, you guys are f3333333  ffff  5  23 4qwubq;o 8f7[A9SUWQEI V;/O

How many goals has he scored in how many games?????

OMG. Great post Crutchless. I was beginning to think I was the only one!! Hoskins is so stand out because he is so different! He is 2 yards quicker than his team mates. He looks for and finds space. He takes people on. Yes his finishing is appalling but nothing that some good coaching and CONFIDENCE couldn’t solve. I have a ST in the upper West and when ever I say something positive / encouraging about the lad I get daggers and looks of sympathy for my clearly unbalanced mental state.  He will come good in this crappy division but I’m guessing we won’t get too many apologies on this Board when he does? So, if your real Cobblers fans then get behind him not on him! UTC

Clearly meant “you’re”. It must be my mental state?!? Happy for my view to be knocked but not my spelling!

Quite right - and as I have said several times - it is Hoskins who features post match as the player that most worried the opposition

 

Utter garbage - I watched him on Saturday and three or four times he got into really good positions and he did not lift his head once!

He often runs with his head down and runs into blind furrows!

What you talking about half chances?!?!? - The number of 1 on 1's in recent weeks is truly shocking!

As I've said before, yes he has pace, yes he causes defences trouble. But his decision making / delivery / shooting in the final third is truly awful

He is the one regularly mentioned by opposition fans as being the one that caused their defence the most trouble and concern.
Some can't see the pimple on the end of their nose.

As I said the other day...

Quite a few of us support your stance on Hoskins and after Saturday more so! What’s your opinion on  Cornell , should be interesting.

I too like  Hoskins and you are not alone!

His record speaks volumes

20 goals in 183 appearances.....

Do you measure that against the record of an average forward or an average midfielder?

I think most people are pretty much agreed that he isn't a forward, but as an attacking midfielder he can do a job.

He runs at people with pace and that scares opponents. He just needs to work on his final pass, his crossing and his finishing for when he gets those chances that his pace creates.

The problem is that he's been a pro for 7 or 8 seasons and doesn't really seem to have progressed. Although like most have said...if he had progressed then he wouldn't be with us anyway!!

As I said before... He terrorizes defences, but doesn't bother keepers.

He's ok. Just quite frustrating.

As a lower league two side, he's about adequate. Frustratingly, he gives the ball away more than any player I've seen in a Cobblers shirt (and misses more 1v1s) and will certainly need replacing if we ever have playoff aspirations. We've needed proper wingers since the season we let Adams, Holmes and D'Ath go.

that is very flattering for d'ath to put him in a bracket with those 2

Probably more of a concern than Hoskins is that Austin gave Williams a 2 year contract and he doesn’t seem to have many goals in him, he works hard but it would be a miracle if he gets anywhere near 10 goals this season. At least Hoskins creates the chances he misses (and we can hope that at some point his finishing or luck improves), I can only think of the half chance that Williams hit the outside of the post with against bury last week. If Hoskins played alongside more of a prolific partner he might find that his performances improve.

Hoskins’ movement is very good . He works hard to find space .
However , I agree he doesn’t look up .
He therefore lacks composure .
He needs to watch JJOT in this regard who plays with his head up very well

I just picked the 3 players ahead of Hoskins at the time. Could probably put Lee Martin in there too.

I agree, his movement is very good but that alone doesn't make him a footballer.
From Saturday's highlights, I can see why Cruthless holds the opinion he does, but they are not representative of ninety minutes.
Interesting that currently five players have been nominated as motm, and whilst im surprised Cornell doesnt make it six, I'm not at all surprised Hoskins isn't on the list.
Hoskins is also the complete opposite of JJ when it comes to going for a fifty fifty ball  ;)

To add to Patmore's and others, Cornell/Hoskins debate.
Cornell has saved more goals with better than regulation stops than Hoskins has scored goals this season. Hoskins has also wasted far more good chances than Cornell has fcuked up.

Interestingly, Swindon fans said in the pub on Saturday, that they'd have Williams back in a heartbeat!

Understand the view put forward that Hoskins has potential (possibly elsewhere) but certainly for us in the last couple of seasons, can't hit a barn door, whatever mazy runs he makes - a major contributing factor to our results and thus league position!
Deepcut cites opposition fans' views. Lincoln and Tranmere fans were waxing lyrical about him BUT, they see a quick seemingly talented player nearly scoring a hatful... not realising that is the norm not the exception!

Think Hammy hit the nail on the head;
Causes defences problems but certainly not keepers...apart from that, love the guy - keep him to terrorise Gravesend, sorry Ebbsfleet's defence next season!

Understand the view put forward that Hoskins has potential (possibly elsewhere) but certainly for us in the last couple of seasons, can't hit a barn door, whatever mazy runs he makes - a major contributing factor to our results and thus league position!
Deepcut cites opposition fans' views. Lincoln and Tranmere fans were waxing lyrical about him BUT, they see a quick seemingly talented player nearly scoring a hatful... not realising that is the norm not the exception!

[/quote]

This is spot on. Even Keith Curle fell into this trap after his first game in charge. The thing about Hoskins is that although he consistently flatters to deceive with his great runs then poor passing/decision making/shooting (take your pick), he's still involved in a very large number of our best moves and I honestly think we'd be a poorer side without him. Lots of the chances we miss wouldn't be chances without Hoskins. I think we need him, at least until we sign another proper winger. On Saturday he actually did put in 2 very good deliveries which vV and Williams should have buried.

He is a right winger all day long. As soon as this is realised the better he and the team will become.

He has got pace and has the absolute ability to go past most defenders in this league but like many have witnessed he couldn’t finish his dinner.

Saturdays goal came from his cross which If he works on day in day out he will be a real handful . But he must work on his final ball because I can’t remember watch a more frustrating player than him ever.

Jim Hall F.....  There may be loads of things that we will clash about in the future.  But, I wager, you are one of the few posters on here who has played real football in their lifetime.  After all, anyone playing real football under the age of 40, today, wouldn't be able to watch the mighty "Curly Cobblers", as they would be on the pitch themselves, elsewhere.

Keep giving it your 'all!!!!!

By "half-chances", I mean that his pace gets him into positions that everyone else dreams of.

Easy for the "untrained eye" to remember the failed attempt on goal.  But, not so easy to understand how he managed to get into those positions.

He will be the key that unlocks our promotion challenge.... and make no mistake!

2 things might stop him:

!) The great negative Northamptonian doing him down at every opportunity (yourself included, perhaps?).
2) A monster breaking his leg.

I watch football to be entertained and hopefully to see more wins than losses

We all know Hoskins has to skills to refine in terms of finished product which has been much debated.

There are a few players in the squad I rate but there are only two that typically generate excitement when they move forward - one is Crooks (but has never quite reached the Richard Hill bursting through the centre persona) - the other is Hoskins playing as a winger.

The critics have some valid observations but generally don't offer an alternative player in that position

If he could just add a bit of end product to his game then we would have one hell of a player. And if he did that I think we would do well to hold on to him.

It reminds me a bit of the time Marc Richards couldn't seem to get a goal when he was first with us. Whatever happened to him?

The place Hoskins cannot play is on the wing . He never lifts his head and becomes a frustrated figure .
We have tried it so many times and it never works .
He is a central player and is best running on from deep . When he played in this position he was MOM time and again.
I am sure the coaching staff don’t need any advice from any of us but if he was my player , I would just have him on shooting practice day after day after day .
It wouldn’t take much for us to have a real player if he could only get his composure sorted out .

D'Ath is better than Hoskins.

 ;D. Showboating!

He hasn't played, has he been injured at Donkeys?

;D You must really dislike Little Sam to come out with that nonsense.

Two 3 minute sub appearances, signed on a one year deal

I know, that's why I asked.

D’Ath was complete pants by the time he left although he was decent when he arrived .
Not been a starter in any side since either

Are people seriously saying that Hoskins is a better wide player than D'Ath?

.............stop winding people up on here; its not done!

Hoskins is a much better player than D'Ath, although that doesnt make Hoskins any good.
 As people have said, you cannot fault Hoskins' work rate, but his end product is woeful. Shouldnt be any where near a starting spot.

You have no idea about football do you mate. he cant play through the middle because he inst good enough at passing, or tackling. he cant be taken seriously as a forward as he cant finish.  play him on the wing were there is less to think about. cross the ball and track back. easy game really.

They've both scored the exact same amount of goals for the Cobblers hilariously.

Absolutely spot on.

Since Wilder left he has spent two years playing out of position or (for about 10 months) sitting on the sidelines recovering from a horrific ACL injury. I think a lot of people seem to forget that.

Austin finally restored him to the middle of the park where he belongs and we have started to see the best of him again.

His every move seems to be subject to scrutiny at the moment though and whenever he gets the ball you can sense half the West Stand holding their breath waiting to jump on his back for any outcome that is not a goal or a perfect delivery.

Prime example against Bury, he got down the right and hit a cross that initially looked long and the moaning had already started, only for it to arrive perfectly onto Crook’s head at the far post. A chance he wasted. In the same game, Hoskins got fouled on the edge of their box but not given a free kick. The bloke behind me bellowed “Fukking get back Hoskins!” as Bury launched a counter attack. He was playing at centre forward, pushing on the last man.

At the moment he is a target for abuse from a significant section but I feel it is unjustified.

His recent “end product” has been much better since being moved into the middle. On Saturday he created several chances for others of which all but one was wasted, as he did against Vale and at home to Bury.

Hoskins big negative is he has missed some great opportunities himself of course. However, they all have. Crooks, Williams, Van Veen and Powell have all missed a string of absolute sitters themselves. Even the ever reliable JJOT has been passing up golden chances that he would usually bury. Williams for example has a consistent record of scoring at a rate of about 1 in every 3.5 games over the last five or six years, at League 1 Level of higher. His finishing has been woeful this year. Why is Hoskins so frustrating or his end product repeatedly singled out for criticism when it is certainly no worse than any of those around him?

Positives
- he works his absolute b@llocks off
- he wins an unbelievable amount of headers relative to his size
- he has genuine pace and runs in behind to use it well when played centrally
- he can beat a player
- in spite of the criticism he still ALWAYS  shows for and wants the ball
- the vast majority of our best attacking moments involve him
- he creates opportunities for himself and others on a consistent basis.

I’d play him through the middle every week. He’s now on his fourth manager since Wilder, all of who seem to rate him as a first name on the team sheet. Personally I completely agree, but he needs to be played through the middle.

Well I would'nt - as the right wing is probably perfect for him. Where your analysis lacks conviction is stating for a certainty that Hoskins needs to play down the middle. Except that DA and now KC dont appear to follow your 'advice'.

Negatives

- fcuk all hardly ever comes of it.

Hoskins doesn't play , we win , this is a fact.

Colchester United? Good fact...

Very subjective, but that is what all of this debate is...

My advice is to get off Hoskins Back. I am a fan of his and have been since the first time I saw him play.

I think the moaners are in a minority and I just hope Sam has not read this thread. It can be quite depressing how we treat players who have the right attitude.

He is a hard working enterprising player who has basically spent most of the last two seasons either recovering from a really serious injury or playing in an ineffective team. During that time he has had to undertake a number of roles to try and address the deficiencies of other team mates.

The guy has only started about 80 league games in his whole career and he is, in my view, still developing. He is not the complete article - if he was he would not be playing for Northampton.

Be patient, because I think he deserves better than some of the comments on this thread.



 

I would like to know how much time Hoskins spends just practising shooting and one on ones .
The club should be making him do this after everyone has left the training ground every single day .
I bet this doesn’t happen .
How much does he really want to improve and become a real asset ?

He's been `developing' for about 5 years but has not actually improved 1 iota. Unfortunately he just lack a football brain and any quality at all in the final third.

I think you and I must be looking at a different player!

He's only seen one game all season (last Saturday)...although I couldn't guarantee that because he didn't wear his flower in his hair.

The reality is that Hoskins has potential and this is why he gets so much frustrating comments on this site.Apart from his first season under Wilder when he did score goals they have since dried up. He should not be jettisoned but it is now down to Curle to work out his best role on the pitch, over the last season or so I would say he is more of an impact player from the bench rather than being in the starting line up.  He is definitely not a lost cause, I remember a game against Bury under Page when he was virtually unplayable and made Leon Barnett, then playing for Bury, look a right carthorse.

probably too busy still rolling down his sleeves and shorts from the pre-season tour

Well said Robas

Sam Hoskins is a decent player but stuck in a poor team, maybe if the side start to perform on a regular basis this hard work will pay dividends.
A modern day Graham Felton.
All together now 'we've got Sammy Sammy Hoskins on the wing, on the wing..

I have said it before and will repeat, IF Sammy had a better end product he would now be playing in a higher division for a bigger team. Maybe Curle can be the one who finally makes the end product emerge.

I would agree with you if he was improving, however he isn't.

The simple fact of the matter is that since the start of last season we have been far more likely to win when Hoskins plays than when he doesn't. Last season we only won 12 games out of 53. In the games that Hoskins played at least 60 minutes, we won 9 out of 21.

That's a stupid fact!

What about all the games we won under wilder that hoskins sat on tge bench!

Haha you know when your losing an argument when you resort back to the old not being there chestnut! Nevers likes that one!

How do you know how many games I gave and haven't been too?

No I left the flower out of my hair, did it disappoint??

..but Glasto he said since the start of the season! I dont think it is wise to say somebody's fact is stupid after all you deal in facts all the time.

I've heard of fake news and alternative facts but stupid fact ? What is that an inconvenient truth. Chris Wilder had better players to choose from, particularly in the early part of the season, Hoskins was raw, had few league appearances behind him, but still scored 8 goals and contributed to that season's success.

By your own admission you missed most of the games last season; you even missed the games against Pompey. As for this season you have failed to make any away games and far as I can make out you have only attended two home games.  Oxford is a reasonable journey for you to make? Yet you pronounce views on all matters relating to Cobblers with most of them presented as facts.  Of course there is nothing wrong in making comments on the team but when challenged on the authenticity of your facts you get very evasive even 'rude'! Can you please consider outlining the games you have been to this season so we can take your opinion seriously. Lets face it you were wrong on Cornell and almost certainly on Hoskins.

I am an old chestnut.
Using your tried and tested method of stating facts without evidence.
Yes.  ;)

😂😂😂😂 you do spout some tripe nevers.

Which part did you not understand? Basically all you need to do is confirm which games you have been to this season?
As I said when faced with straightforward questions you issue your version of defensive tripe. Presumably you want your readers to feel confident that the 'facts' you present are correct?

Look nevers you have your opinion and I have mine, many people will agree with each of us. Bit in my opinion whilst sammy hoskins is in our first 11 we will in my opinion be nowhere near a top half league 2 club.

You merely avoid the question - every time ::)

If only the league position was down to one player. Your hatred of Hoskins seems personal rather than football related.

Not at all, it's down to the quality of our squad. Sammy is imo a top end confrence / bottom end lg 2 player at best. The year we won the league we had Nicky Adams and Ricky Holmes in front  of him, both far superior players.

To push to the top end of the table we need this competition and quality all over the park, just sammy is the obvious example because he does imo lack quality (decision making / final third/ finishing ability / final ball).

I love sammy for the fact he always give 100% and will run his arse off, to progress as avteam you need more than that tho) again all imo

If you must know I've seen us on 4 occasion this year so far nevers (not sure quite what difference it makes) but to you this seems the be all and end all when making judgement!

Stat fans, Sam Hoskins figures for his 2 seasons with us in league 2 and all competitions excluding FA Cup

2015-2016 Total Games 38, Goals 7, Assists 2

2018-2019 Total Games 13, Goals 1, Assists 2

That’s what the figures I read say. Doesn’t seem to be any worse than in the title winning season? When you read the old reports from this season players have missed sitters from his crosses as well, including Williams at Port Vale?

Make of that what you will?

So everyone with a different opinion has a beer belly?

Are you Donald Trump or something?

Is there really a need to discriminate against beer drinkers? I mean come on a beer drinker has just been appointed to the top, top, top position in the USA courts.

Lets be honest here, it's safe to say over the past year there ain't 1 player in the team who has performed above and beyond, they have been average at best, this is likely down to the managers though and i would expect them to improve under a manager who they like, last season on paper we had a very, very good squad on paper, would we have said it would get us relegated? not on your nelly.

Off for a latte.

You have a very anti Hoskins stance with some historical utterances made  to prove it. I don’t think you have any ‘love’ or respect for the player at all. When challenged you resort to defensive statements which are contrary to yr written views. You now claim admiration for Hoskins given his 100% effort but at the same time claim the player should not be near a Cobblers X1. As somebody says you have personal hatred for the player; which you exhibit at any given opportunity.

It certainly helps to give a fair assessment!

Im confused now, i cant make the home game Saturday, the early kick off works against me. But i can go away the week after.
Does this make me a bad supporter because im missing a home game, or a super fan because im making an away game ?
Does it mean ive got a small dick or a big dick ? Does it mean my Dad is bigger than everybody elses. or is he just a midget ?

+1

I can't make Saturday either and I too have a tiny dick.

I don't have a personal vendetta against anyone nevers - It's just my stance on the player is very different from yours and you have a major problem accepting anyone's opinion that differs from yours.

I'll say it again to make it easy for you nevers - Hoskins is a player that always gives 100%, but lacks any quality at all in the final third (Final ball, decision making, shooting, crossing) - This has been an issue since they day we signed him and is something that has not improved over the 3/4 years his been here.

If we are looking to progress as a club (Become top end Lg2 / Bottom end Lg1) then better quality is required.

This is all of course in my opinion ;0)

The problem with anything like this, is the fact that the debate can become a bit subjective.

Hoskins has some good attributes. But his end product is poor at any level. However, he is not a million miles away from being a really decent player. If Curle can get that out of him, then fair play to him.

I am surprised that you of all supporters feel confused. I too have missed quite a few games this season and will all most certainly miss a few more. Does this make me a bad supporter because I'm missing a few games? In some eyes I may well be a part timer! However you have missed the point of the thread which is about Hoskins. All supporters , including me should be able to make observations about players particularly if they have seen them actually play. Unfortunately there has been an increase of vitriolic attacks by a few members on various players like Hoskins, Cornell and vV where some of these critics may have egg left on their face.  Like you I too have criticised Hoskins but never to the length of at least one member who lives and sleeps in his personal hatred of Hoskins.  If you can't go to a game - thats life!  What you personally don't do is launch unsubstantiated facts on a player without actually seeing him play.

Not sure you can say midget anymore... its little person/people. Still ok with Dick though unless the Richard's of the world unite to complain

Vertically or barn door challenged, shurely?  ;)

What is the "Ever's Official Games Watched > Able To Comment" formula?

 One or more long distance away game > An active supporter + patience + fair minded. 

 ;D ;D ;D

I still think Hoskins creates most of anything any good for us.

Don’t call me Shurely

Unlucky, mines like a blind cobblers thumb

Mines like a Pringle tube, with an apple on top. ;D

Lovely to see so many responses to this little thread that I started.

May I suggest that we have a top Manager, who will get some great results from this squad?  Hoskins, vV & Cornell being 3 perfect examples.

Please, let's stop being critical of anyone at the club for a few weeks until it becomes clear what is what?

It has been a traumatic couple of years for various reasons.  That has affected all of the players.

We now have the opportunity under Curley-Cobblers to make things so much better.

IF YOU WANT FAILURE, THEN WATCH YOUR AREARRRRRRS.  I CAN ARRANGE THE WORST YOU'VE EVER EXPERIENCED ON YOUR BALANCE SHEET !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you want success, then, wait a moment, reflect, and support the revolution.

Curley-Cobblers, Curley-Cobblers, Woo-hoo!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ive actually come to think the opposite where he wastes the ball in good positions so many times.

Young sprightly Sam Hoskins is an enigma, don't you know.

I see the same underachieving underproducing  player 100% heart and effort, >10% contribution

Caught offside at least 3 times today when he didn't need to be. So naive.

He didn't have the best of games today but I still thought the direct free kick he took wasn't bad and he went close late on with a difficult chance. That still sent the bloke behind me into apoplexy because he'd just cost us the win... ::)

Lets not forget his yellow card in front of the dug out stopping a FGR breakaway in the 2nd half. Now that was different for Sammy - and I'm hoping that KC is having an effect on him as I don't think he would have done the dirty and taken one for the team under Austin.

I think the new club owners will have a Million Pound player, once Curley-Cobblers has given him belief!

Didn’t have his best game today but was unlucky with a few of those offside decisions .
He and Williams seem to have very little understanding

All of this "does he, doesn't he" debate concerning Hoskins deserving a place in the team, it's a moot point. The simple fact is, a majority of our recent managers consider him worthy. Now, I'll admit that from where I'm standing (or more usually sitting), I'm sure it is the lad's pace and work rate which gets him picked - it certainly isn't his finishing, but our squad has been woefully pedestrian for a few seasons now. Hoskins has been one of the few grafters.
I like Sammy's attitude, and I'd love him to iron out the many flaws in his game. But I think January could prove quite telling for the lad, because unless he can suddenly learn to read the game better, and not panic when in sight of goal, I'm expecting his to be one of the places in jeopardy from new arrivals.

I take your point.

Although this whole thread is titled "Head Down Hoskins", I'm not sure that is what he does when shooting at goal, as a number of attempts seem slightly mis-hit. Perhaps adopting a "just smash it at goal" approach, concentrating 100% on getting the right ball contact might produce better results.

He's still in my team though.

Piss poor attempt to get a bite from the IQ challenged on here Franky boy.

He is in the team because he has bugger all in the way of competition.

Thought he was poor. What annoys me the most is the stupid and unnecessary off-sides.

Back in the starting XI for this afternoon's game v Oldham.

Let's hope he nets on his return to the side, as Powell did on Tuesday.

Worked hard second half and laid on a sitter for Crooks. Have no idea why he dropped Powell, Waters and Williams. Was crying out for Williams to come on in the last 15 mins.

Am I thinking of a different chance? but wasn’t the Crooks one a Powell cross that the defender put into Crooks path?
As for the players dropped, Waters didn’t start against Macclesfield? and for me VV has to start and he got a goal and assist to surely  justify this, who plays alongside him is arguable, but non of our other strikers have done anything to merit a place. Maybe harsh to drop Powell who scored in the previous game.

Hoskins laid on a 1-on-1 chance for Crooks in a good counter attack in the early stages of the 2nd half, which Crooks lifted wide.

You were obviously there Clarence😇

Apart from the chance Hoskins set up for Crooks, thought he offered little going forward, however defensively I thought he was excellent in the second half

He did his job in the second half. A good performance.

Hoskins was poor again going forward offers little to no threat, defensively he runs and runs and runs.

First half he was a passenger. Absolutely hopeless.

Second half really helped the defence and contributed to a solid team display.

I am not a constant Hoskins knocker but he was terrible yesterday .
In the first half he lost the ball persistently and was no threat at all . His understanding with VV is zero .
Second half he scurried about okay but he is not the answer up front .

Some of yr predictions used to be accurate; just recently you have been all over the place. You even got Macclesfield wrong! What’s the problem? Woman trouble? Brexit?

Stop picking fights with people you cretin.

Thks - you don’t pick fights with Manny boy! Very abusive comment; please offer an apology without delay!

That was Hoskins 100th league appearance for us. scoring 11 goals.

I just can't take to the bloke. He is undoubtedly a work horse. He did some good stuff on Saturday, but then he was asked to help out the defence, and just didn't.

I think I've just got it in for him a bit.  ;D

At least you admit it.

The game I was at he definitely appeared to help out in defence; is this a bit of a wind up tho?

Let me say up front I'm not Super Sam's biggest fan. He was awful in the 1st half on Saturday but improved in the second half setting up a chance from which Crooks should have scored and worked hard in frustrating Oldham in the second half. 

No, not at all Evers. I thought he lacked concentration and commitment to the task in hand.

On Saturday I felt Hoskins played well when forced into defensive duties. It may be worth using him there in the future because statistically he's a pile of poo in front of goal.

this boy needs to improve .
Very lucky to still be in the side

I thought he had a decent game today. A chap near us said if it wasn't Hoskins with all the baggage he would be a contender for man of the match.

Did you understand what the chap near you was talking about?  ;D

He was awful.
Time for a change

I agree. Worked really hard, lots of good midfield and defensive work. I think if he could only score a goal, however scrappy, he might just flourish.

I thought he was woeful today...

Imagine if we had proper wingers in this squad...

I got no issues with the guy , always puts in a shift

We all know his weakness , one thing Curle has done is to play to his strengths,  why keep him so far wide when he struggles with crossing . I think he poses a constant problem to opposition at the moment

Mind you, another chap near us shouted he was lazy. That made me smile.

Not his best game going forward but he was used out of position again. He played on the left side for much of the second half.

He tries hard but is not good enough to be anywhere near the 18 let alone the starting 11.

I really despair at how woefully inadequate the average NTFC fan is in terms of footballing know-how.

Hoskins will always be one of the first names on the team sheet, because he is one of our best players.

For those of you who wonder at his goal ratio...... tell me, what were the instructions he had from his manager (s)?  Have you ever wondered that your fantasy-land of blinkered football-ness fails to outweigh manager after manager who plays him, time and time again.....???

How do opposing managers cope with him?

We have probably the best manager of lower-level football.  He knows that playing Hoskins is like having an extra man on the pitch.

You really are a bunch of thick-headed, clueless, knuckle-dragging, sub-cognitive vacuums.....

Are you the best supporter in Div2?  No.....  You are are a clueless, self-obsessed half-wit, who doesn't even have the where-with-all to understand self-pleasure, let alone perform it.

...................must admit that Crewe Forum partially agrees who called Hoskins lively! He was lively today but to me his performance was a very typical Hoskins erformance!

 ;D ;D

I am so pleased Hoskins’ mum contributes to our esteemed forum .
Did he eat his greens when he was younger ?

I wouldn't be quite so aggressive in my phrasing, but I'd broadly agree with the gist of what you're saying.  ;D

He's a good player. He lacks any direct end product but teams HATE defending against him. You could see that in the last two home games; he runs at them, they panic and either commit a foul or hoof the ball away into touch, often in a dangerous area. Add to that the phenomenonal work rate  (and an engine that allows him to maintain it for 90 minutes) and you can see why the last SIX managers have had him in or around the team whenever he's been available.

I absolutely agree Mrs Hoskins , I think more players put his effort in then we'll be in a better place

Not exactly Beckham with his crosses but certainly a credit

Nope. He couldn’t finish his dinner.

 :o He's one of our best players though. His Mother told us so.

IMO Hoskins didn't have a good game yesterday and made many wayward crosses/passes etc. but performed his defensive duties well enough. Personally I've always thought Waters is a more 'natural' footballer who offers more guile and composure on the ball than Hoskins and that yesterday he had a pretty good 45 after coming on for Crooks. Given a run of games in the starting XI I fancy he could begin to contribute goals. However perhaps Hoskins' physicality and ability to get up and down the pitch helps the team more defensively and gives it greater balance at the moment.

I still think as the season progresses Hoskins will be better as an impact player coming off the bench to run at tiring back fours, much as he was utilised by Wilder.

Hoskins can be very frustrating, but people remember the few mistakes he makes rather than the work rate and danger that he poses the opposition. Wilder, Page, Edinburgh, Hasselbaink, Austin and Curle all have him in or about the team. Perhaps some don’t understand the game as well as they think! 🤔

I sense you don’t deal well with being challenged.

Oh dear, looks like Crutchless is off the medication again.

Those managers apart from Curle and Wilder are hardly an endorsement of footballing knowhow

Curle and Wilder is enough.

Hoskins seems to attract criticism much as Cornell does, much of it unwarranted.

I can think one one particularly poor cross yesterday, but that aside as solid as anyone.

Already been mentioned - his energy levels and willingness to work are his strengths, and why he's a regular in the side.

Think the lack of wide options is another reason he's still in the side.

One decent cross aside he was dreadful in possession yet again. He's the one player in the squad who I'm genuinely surprised when he produces anything in an attacking area.

Ha!...funny how those before and after them favour his inclusion! Agreed, they are not the best at managing a squad though.

Gave the ball away constantly and did nothing going forward .
I really do wonder what game people watch sometimes .
We need to give Powell or Waters a go in that role now

It's not even just his finishing that's an issue, it's also his passing. I'm not sure he made one successful pass on Saturday continually giving Crewe possession back leading to numerous counters (luckily Crewe were woeful). He's a wasted player on the pitch.

Hoskins is Shyte, all he’s got is running running and more running.
Powell is light years ahead and should be starting.

I saw him intercepting quite a few of their passes, you must have missed those.  ;)

Powell seems to do better when coming off the bench.

Sure, one poor cross, but how many blocked crosses and passes?

I like Sam, i like his effort, his legs, engine and enthusiasm but it seems to me that as each game passes he is finding it harder and harder to get the ball past players. There have been so many occasions this season when he has the ball and could easily distribute it but instead he drags the ball and changes the angles before promptly firing the ball at the opposition player. that is what frustrates me most about him.

He had a good game on Saturday so those that defend him are on a high and have been waiting for this opportunity to light a big bright torch for him and wave it around. That alone speaks volumes about his overall talent.

On the whole he lacks any final product, and his distribution is very poor. I would say the Curle seems to be making progress with him, so that is a good thing. But as is normally the case on here, people will dine out on the occasional good performance from someone they wish to defend.

I don’t agree that he played well on Saturday .
He was our weakest link although he did put his shift in.
Everyone is willing him to do well but it’s just time to try someone else in my view .

I don't think he's been the same player since his serious injury.

In our early days in League 1, I can remember he was often fouled 4 or 5 times a game and caused teams a lot of problems.

As many have said, if his end product was better he certainly wouldn't still be playing for us but I can never fault the lads effort. I think he's signed until 2020 so he won't be going anywhere soon.

Really. Which Saturday was this?

You never accurately gauge the intellect of those that you are engaging with via the internet. But I would of thought there was a huge hint about which Saturday I was referring in my initial post.

Or..... Am I to understand that you disagree with me, and believe he has never had a good game? If that's the case. Feel free to say it. Don't sit on the fence like Manwork did  :P

I absolutely agree with you regards intellect and the internet. I often have trouble discerning intellect face to face that said.
Clearly I knew which Saturday you were referring to, and i'd have thought it obvious from my reply that i disagree with you about him having a good game. Ergo, the point of my post.
Intelligence eh?...
Oh, and it's 'would have thought' btw  :P

Generally, i agree with you about Hoskins play, not your point about Curle improving him though, because I don't think he has. Yes, i have occasionally seen him play well, Plymouth tail end of last season comes to mind.
Having said that, I'd play Hoskins over Waters.

There is up until January nobody better than Hoskins so all this ego talk about intelligence etc is irrelevant. We have to go with what we have -  :'(  .   I thought pragmaticism was a local trait? Anyway who cares about intelligence you either have it or you don't!

So you are very much in the nature camp regarding intelligence then...despite scientific research pointing hugely towards nurture - studies, environment etc as opposed to hereditary!  :o

As an aside, I don't think either Tel or CJ were referring to Hoskins regarding intelligence!

Hes the best at what he does, we've got. Far better than Waters, who in my mind is a 'poor mans Hoskins'. Didn't see anything on Saturday (again) that changes my mind on that.

Maybe when Morais is fit, Sam will drop down the pecking order. Depends how Kieth utilises him.

I've always been a fan of Hoskins. I totally get why he's marmite when it comes to opinion. As a lively inside forward/wide player who you don't necessarily need to see a return of goals from, I think he does a good job at this level. His work off the ball also allows other players far more space than they would otherwise get. And helps us out when we don't have possession.

He rarely gets subbed so in my mind he is very much in Kieth's longer term thinking.

Not in Northamptonian, it ent me ol duck.

You have point on nuture - studies etc enable those well nutured can often assume pseudo intelligence. Its no accident  that Winchester and Eton regularly produce pupils with high IQ.

Mmmmm - I would suggest they already had the high IQ, although many that go there don't - and that's not what public school produces - what it does deliver, is the confidence to leverage whatever assets you have for maximum potential. Also never confuse high IQ with emotional or practical intelligence. 

He can run for an hour and a half but so could Paula Radcliffe and i wouldn't have her in my team either. She'd probably have a better final ball though

I can't really put into words just how spectacularly you have missed the point. So I refer you to the Honourable  member, Coolcats answer.

 ;D ;D ;D

I noted Coolcats comments and am mesmerised by his explanation on ‘intelligence’.

You'd have thought that if Hoskins was that bad then one (or all) of our managers him would have noticed and stopped playing him. Even the poor managers we've had are significantly more qualified than any of you to decide if he adds any value to the team.
For the record, I like him as a player and think we are better with him in the team, than not... but agree his end product is frustrating.

No need to be mesmerized because it is very likely (within a complex subject) he is wrong - no question both nature and nurture play a part in intelligence, but at the risk of being called out for being argumentative there is considerably more peer reviewed scientific evidence to suggest a stronger genetic basis to intelligence than an environmental one.

.......but back to topic I'm with you & until I can see a better player than Hoskins being picked to run at defenders he and the manager who picks him gets my support.j     

Im not so sure about this mate. If JFH believed that Alex Revell was a winger, then Id argue that Im more qualified to be a football manager!  ;D

Good example - made me laugh (but not at the time!)

It’s such posts above that this forum is well worth a visit. Well written and easy on the eye. I also share Monkeys sentiments on Hoskins; we do need a more capable player in his position time will tell I suppose.

Fixed that for you  ;D

Revell has played right wing numerous times throughout his career (mostly in his 20s mind!).

I don't agree on that at all. I've always thought that Waters is a much more intelligent footballer than Hoskins and IMO Saturday was a very good example of that with Hoskins having a poor game overall (bar his defensive work), while Waters came in for Crooks and was very good, composed and industrious while on the ball and made for the most part decent choices with his passing throughout the second half.

As you say and as I've also mentioned in other posts, Hoskins is in the team for his physical attributes, stamina, pace etc. and how this contributes defensively thus giving more 'balance' to the team, but I don't see as good a 'footballer' in him as I do in Waters and I say that as something of a fan of Sammy's as well.

You sure about that, he had the right crank when asked to play that one game there under Jimmy?

Yeah back in his Rotherham days. Probably more to do with his work rate than anything else (Heskey played left wing for England  ;D ). But certainly not the first time he played there.

Where are you (if anywhere) on sexual orientation then Cobblerwatch, genetic over environmental?

Tommy Mooney, the lump ex of Wycombe amongst others, once said in an interview that all you really need to succeed in this league is to be an athlete with limited ability. As long as you can run fast and for the best part of 90 minutes you could make a career out of the lower leagues.

Bit off topic here and frankly I’ve no real idea, nor am I aware of any compelling studies (unlike intelligence or more specifically brain grey matter volume) that would point in any direction - if you are bought up in a tolerant society that doesn’t stigmatize sexuality or within a gay community (for example adopted by a caring same sex couple)  I doubt that makes you gay but much more likely to have no qualms about acknowledging your sexuality if you happen to actually be gay.

I feed the mods will be closing us down as off topic 😀

Yeah, there's a good chance they will.
Back on topic, just how poor are Fulham U/21's.

Rings true as tonight the little maestro played well particularly in the 1st half.

Fair play to him, did well against a youth team.

After conceding two goals I thought they were in for a heavy defeat. They reorganised very well and looked
Competent enough in defence and midfield.Until Abraham’s came on second half they never looked like forcing a result! We defended very well second  half without Pierre and 3/4 young players.  I am glad we kept a clean sheet, won and progressed in the competition. There was also a financial reward for the Club in progressing to next round. They were an improved version of Crewe!

Indeed, you can also replace "run fast" for a forward with "be disciplined and organised" for a holding mid or defender. We have seen many "limited ability" players in an NTFC shirt over the years but its a fine line between fans taking to them and not.

I imagine if you asked the Hoskins haters if they could swap him for Nicky Adams, most would snap your hand off. When we played Bury a few weeks back I thought Nicky Adams was fantastic on the ball - every cross he delivered was dangerous and his end product was as good as you will see at this level. But if you asked me if I'd have him back over Hoskins, I'm not sure, because a Nicky Adams is only great if he has a few Sammy Hoskins' around him.

It's safe to say that if Hoskins had Nicky Adams' end product, he'd be a championship player, but the same could still be said of Nicky Adams if he had Hoskins pace and work rate.

 ;D Jimmy aside then... There was however method in the madness and the logic was actually not completely insane - the execution however...

Well if it was a straight head to head between Hoskins , Waters and Powell last night it sounded like Hoskins came out on top .
Fair enough - keep the shirt

That's because this us about Hoskins level

There is a massive gulf between rating him and hating him.

Anyone else notice him upping the somewhat petulant attitude last night - holding onto the ball after a foul or free kick, body checking players after a decision and lots of verbal - maybe it's a KC thing and maybe I'm a bit old fashioned still believing in some level of sportsmanship - doing it to prove a point against some Div 4 cloggers one thing - but against a team of kids not over impressed.

The murky pond where the toads congregate to moan is decreasing in the hot sun of success. Sam is still dipping his feet in at one end and the toads grasp at his feet in desperation. Cornell is waving on from afar with toad essence dripping from his studs.

Wise words mate!

Yet Usain Bolt can’t make it as a pro footballer.

Hoskins has played every minute of every league game so far this season, 16 matches in all. In that time his record is zero goals and 3 assists. One of those assists came from being bought down in the box by the keeper after latching onto a bad back-pass. Only one of his assists came from a cross, which was from a short corner.

That means he's contributed to no more than 1 goal this season from any sort of a pass, cross or shot in open play. In 16 full matches. For a winger who's pace is such a threat and who for much of DA's reign was used as arguably our main attacking outlet, these are pretty damning stats.

21yr old kids! They had some big lads playing for them.

It's the running for 90 minutes that sprinters have trouble with.

He was dropped for our biggest win.

Grasp Toady grasp  ;)

Agreed - many bigger than him but not really my point.

I'm not against Hoskins - far from it and have been more supportive than critical but in this case was simply pointing out a more feisty attitude that at times seemed to me somewhat unnecessary and unsporting.

In discussion about our team you don't always have to disagree or counter  a less favorable comment because it doesn't make you a "better" supporter.

Just an observation and Ive mentioned this before but if you look at the stats you quote and compare them to his stats the season we got promoted they are similar. He was good enough for Wilder and I don't remember many complaining then? Not having a go or anything, but as a result I am not entirely convinced the stats are as damning as you state? I don't think its as simplistic as viewing them in isolation and then using them as a reason to chuck the bloke on the scrap heap . Although I must admit this isn't really a good enough excuse to totally discount them either?

It worked well under Wilder because we had Holmes, Adams, D'Ath (and Martin at one point) ahead of him, allowing Hoskins to develop as a squad rotational/impact player. As a player playing 90 mins every single week, we consistently see he isn't up to it. We definitely need more competition in the wide positions.

The usual array of spin and complete inaccuracy from Clarence .
I am no great supporter of Hoskins and think someone else needs a chance , but please get the facts right . Neither Powell or Waters pulled up any trees on Tuesday night and Hoskins was the best of the three.
On another note , Hoskins wasn’t really used by Wilder as a first choice selection.

That's part of the problem with quality in that area of the pitch within the squad.

Hoskins is bang average don't get my wrong and if we have serious play off ambitions should be nowhere near or starting 11, but in Powell and Waters the competition is limited at best.

This is an area of the pitch that needs serious attention in January if we have ambitions to kick on

Yes, forgot about that but in a way it makes his stats look worse then.

I think it's more of a firm grip.  ;D

I don't doubt it, but not on Hoskins unless that's your pet name for it!  :P

I agree that the stats don't tell the whole story as to how much a player contributes to the team, and there are facets to Hoskins' game which make him a useful players at this level. However these particular stats do illustrate if there was any doubt how far he is lacking in the 'end product' department.

I recall him being in and out of the XI under Wilder. I remember him making an impact off the bench on a number of occasions and thinking he was a decent player to be able to bring on. I remember him having a strong impact on a number of games in L1, where he would often go on powerful runs after picking the ball up from deep and the opposition tended to end up bringing him down as a last resort to stopping him. I believe he has qualities which make him a valuable member of the squad.

I do believe however that you need your wingers/attacking midfielders to be able to chip in with goals here and there and he just isn't at the minute and that can only harm the team in the long-run.

It will be interesting to see if he is still regularly making he XI as the season progresses.

You worry too much but you said  v a team of kids which of course is not correct!. In fact we had the kids in the team ::)

Just seen this on Twitter

STAT ATTACK ⚡️⚽️

Sam Hoskins of @ntfc has created 3⃣1⃣ chances in League Two this season. That is 11 more than any other player in the division. 💥

Now that's some creative Cobbler 👨‍🎨🥾

He did put a neat ball through to Odoffin for vV's goal.
Although he did put a shocking cross in at the start of the second half.

According to Clarence and his hyperbole , Hoskins has done nothing ...
The stats must be wrong and he will come on here and write 300 words to tell you why .....
And then blame Cornell for today’s defeat

How many of these chances led to goals? Do they count blasting it high and wide from 12 yards as a chance? Is a cross that goes behind for a goal kick a 'chance'?

I'm pretty sure fitness or ability to run for 90 minutes was not the problem.

Ahh, so you mean Bolt isn't as good a footballer as he thought he was. Probably right.
I'm still pretty sure he won't like running for ninety minutes though!

Indeed. If they had said "scoring chance", then I may have been more impressed.

Well at least you were impressed.

Exactly, I don't think he realised how hard it is to be a pro footballer. Despite what Tommy Mooney might say and I suspect he is just being self-deprecating, it's ludicrously difficult to make it. There's literally thousands of perfectly fit players lower in the pyramid and the various senior county leagues throughout the country. Virtually all of them would kill to get the chance to play at a full time professional or even paid level.

Lower league players are often dismissed as rubbish but that's because most people's only point of reference is the Premiership, the toughest league in the World, where the average player wage is an eye-watering £2 million per season.

It's interesting that when the Prem or Championship teams play us lower league fodder in the FA or League Cup they do generally get through but it's hardly ever by any means a thrashing. They are usually glad to escape without an embarrassing defeat.

Perhaps the players we pay our hard earned money to watch aren't so bad after all.

I don’t believe you are that stupid

Not quite what I intended to say, but, good point, well raised.  :D

Tend to agree.

Often, whether or not a player gets to the Prem is a case of right place, right time, much like any career.

Sure, there's loads of brilliantly talented players in the Prem but pretty sure there's plenty of players in L1 and L2 who would "blossom" in loftier environments.

People who stand on the terraces and think they're as good as who they watch are kidding themselves. You only have to watch players touch, balance, etc. during warm ups to see they're light years ahead of Joe Public.

Anyone who plays pro has talent, or at least has shown it at some point.

I'm big into my golf now, before I played and coached cricket. They are technical games that you can, by repetitive learning, get to a decent standard. The golf swing, batting and bowling are repeatable tasks on the whole, albeit with variations in each motion. Good players can repeat those motions, great players do it with more imagination and often more steely resolve.

Football is different imho. Not least because of the team element but more because the infinite variations that occur within a match. Give me a course layout and I can plot my way how I intend to get around it today, for a round tomorrow. You cant't do that with football and that is why the pros, even the ones we watch, are so much better than us mere mortals

What's your handicap?

They gave me 13 which won't go down well when I actually start playing comps. I was happy with that considering I've only been playing two years and everything I do is from watching YouTube

I got that 6 months ago based on 3 cards averaging 89 (ours is quite a tough course). I'm averaging 81/82 now and have started lessons as I think I've got the game to get to low/mid single figures.

Might have to wear a sombrero rather than a cap as playing off 13 will be well bandit....

What hyperbole? He has only provided assists for two goals so far in 16 league games this season and has also not scored to boot. Andy Williams has more assists from passes this season than Hoskins, in less starts. Those are facts.

As to these 31 'chances' he has created, I doubt we have missed many more than 31 chances all season, and there's no way he has created all of those missed chances on his own. In fact I can think of numerous chances we have spurned which did not originate from a Hoskins ball, though Crooks' miss the other week is one that does come to mind.

I more or less agree with this, which is why I expect a little more from certain players (ahem) when they regularly make dreadful errors, where IMO being 'only a L2 player' is no excuse. In England little more than 1'000 pros line up each for the start of a match each week in the professional leagues, a very tiny number compared to how many players fall by the wayside in the 'whittling down' process leading to a professional career.

I would say though that one off cup games are a different beast than if a L2 side were playing at Premier League/Championship level week in, week out.

The gap between Championship and Premier League, for example, is massive. Discounting the game where they played each other, Cardiff and Fulham have registered 2 wins in 22 matches between them so far this season and they finished 2nd and 3rd in the Championship last season respectively, this gives some indication how tough it is to succeed at that level.

I would say otherwise...

Lincoln 15 shots
Carlisle 14 shots
Wycombe 11 shots
Cambridge 20 shots
Morcambe 12 shots
Colchester 13 shots
Tranmere 17 shots
Cheltenham 8 shots
Port Vale 8 shots
Notts C 15 shots
Mansfield 3 shots
Bury 13 shots
Swindon 12 shots
Forest Green 12 shots
MK Dons 12 shots
Macclesfield 21 shots
Oldham 9 shots
Crewe 14 shots
Lincoln 10 shots


Excludes 3 games in the waste of time cup/vase/thingy.

How many assists does Hoskins have this season? (grown up adult games only, not the youth cup thing from the other night)

3 in 17 games...apparently

I can think of him assisting Crooks at Carlisle and JJOT at Swindon. Possibly gets an assist for winning a peno against Cheltenham too.

We're lucky to have him

Can we cut with all this terminology that makes 'Super Sammy' appear better than he apparently is...
Assist = questionable pass that may or may not have lead to a goal or goal scoring opportunity!  ;)

31 chances not 31 assists! He’d have more assists if we had finished the chances... surely not too difficult to understand.

It's not all gloom and doom, Wolves are doing ok and none of the promoted teams from 16/17 were relegated. Only Middlesborough from the 15/16 promoted sides are not still in the Prem

The numbers don't add up on that 31 assist quote...

If the list above is accurate, that's 239 shots. If every shot has an assist, even if Hoskins had 31, a couple of others must have a similar if not greater number, given I doubt goalkeeper and centre backs assist much, that leaves 6 or 7 outfield positions to assist.

239 divided by 7 even, is 31 and a bit - and that's based on equal contributions which we know isn't reality.

I think that 31 assists quote is someones subjective analysis rather than anything factual

Hoskins is sh1t.......aaaaarrrrrararrrrararararar

Is anyone else sick of the continuous slagging off of Hoskins? Please change the record.

 Cordwainer2 is sh1t........aaaaaarrrrhh!!!!      :)

The majority of shots do not have an attributable assist.

Yes , Its why I don't listen to the opinion of about 80% of our fans. Most will just follow what they hear others saying and unfortunately our most negative fans are often the loudest.

It does work both ways though, Some players become untouchable alas Taylor last year but its mainly people picking a scape goat and it catching on M.Taylor, D'Ath , Grimes or Hoskins.

Actually I have no problem agreeing with you - the endless repetitive comments on an average player where we have no obvious replacement! Still it gives some moaners a chance to have a say. To go out of your way to criticise a Cobblers player in such unfavourable terms is hardly the sign of genuine supporter. On those who offer seemingly malicious comments and call it an opinion should be challenged.

Agree in principle with your sentiments, though don't agree with your example of Taylor being put forward.
Very much divided opinion on him - personally, loved the guy, superb opportunity everytime he had a freekick, though yes, legs had gone.

Sammo for me as a bang average player and rather poor manager seems to have gilded 'legend' status!
More latterly, Richards and to an extent JJOT fit the mould!

I don't really agree on the definition here albeit tongue in cheek - the prem have a clear one and it's the following - "a deliberate pass that leads directly to a goal with no other player than the goal scorer touching the ball"

Having said that Hoskins contribution to true assists by that definition is not great from an opportunity to result ratio

If said ‘assiter’made a pass which should have resulted in a goal. Then it’s somewhat churlish to deny that player of an assist.

Getting a bit too theoretical here - its an assist for a goal not an assist for a chance of a goal so no I don't think the definition is wrong.

If an assister gives the assisted an opportunity to score, it seems unfair that the assister gets penalised for the assisted's failure to score.

Thank you, but I can read. What I meant to ask and what I did ask was how many assists he had.
I'd also like to know what qualifies as a "chance". Like I said, does a crosss that goes out for a goal kick count? Does a shot from the edge of the box that hits somebody near the corner flag count?

The numbers are from the BBC stats. Who knows how accurate they are but it should give us an idea  :)

This is what it sounds like backwards..... rarararararrrrararrrrraaaaa.......t1hs si sniksoH (ɥosʞıus ıs sɥ⇂ʇ˙˙˙˙˙˙˙ɐɐɐɐɐɹɹɹɹɹɐɹɐɹɹɹɹɐɹɐɹɐɹɐɹɐɹ for Melbourne Cob)

A cover of Who put the sham in the shamalamadigdong is on the B side.

 :D love it

Which ever way you want to look at it, he’s done it 11 more times than any other player in League Two. I really don’t get why he gets so much grief when you look at the other options presently available.

Because seemingly everytime he gets the ball within 8 seconds the opposition have it back. Just because there are no better options doesn't mean this is the right one.

I could cry the amount of times the opposition get possession back from an attacking position thanks to Hoskins. His goals and assists over his cobblers career show he's not a creative force at all and is simply a workhorse shoved out on the right wing.

.....but in the somewhat common event of the assisted failing to score, the assister doesn’t actually get penalized but simply not recognized as assisting.

So why does KC play him regularly - if he is so bad? You seem determined to rubbish him what ever the reason. At times there seems no logic in your criticism; applies to Wolvo also!

The logic is that 31 chances have amounted to 2 assists for other players goals and one goal for himself.
Could you please tell me why he is so good?

So if you are assisting someone like Harry Kane you are likely to get far more credit than a player assisting a lesser striker, let's say Leon Constantine, despite the quality of the assists.
That doesn't seem fair.

Good point, had we got better players his assist record would be better. As mentioned before he is 11 chances better than anybody in the league. I wonder how far ahead he is of KvV who by his own admission has created “loads”of  assists

You are missing the point as I dont think Hoskins is that good. For some strange reason KC feels he is good enough to be picked. What you and Wolvo never do is suggest an alternative either from current squad or a January signing.  At least suggest somebody who you feel will do better. Hoskins position in the squad is probably based on there is nobody better. KC has actually tried other options : Walters, Bridges and Powell but still Hoskins gets the nod. So please explain to me why the almost pathological anti player stance when clearly there is nobody significantly better?

You don’t like him as a player and seemingly disregard proof he’s creating more opportunities than any other player in the division, let alone our squad!  Let’s agree to disagree despite the actual facts.

Repeating myself yet again, having nobody better is not a reason for having to think a player is good. I think Theresa May is awful, I'm also allowed to think there are no credible alternatives. Just because there is nobody better doesn't mean you have to like the current incumbant. Can you understand that?
Also, I already have a job and it isn't "Being a football scout" so no, I won't be suggesting any Janyuary signings  ::)

And, for Clarity again, what makes Hoskins any good? He's been the source behind 3 goals this season. Is that really good enough?

I've alsked this a couple of times before but with no answer. Just what are they classing as "chances"? Because we can all put a cross behind for yet another goal kick

Repetitive mantra here; for example I have never suggested or even thought that Hoskins was a good player or even good enough to make the first X1. Your problem is that KC thinks he is! Where myself and possibly others stand is that Hoskins is perhaps the most effective flank player we have at the moment however unpalatable that is. Thats not to say we all think he is there by merit or because we like him ( ::) ) but more likely by default. It might help if you could reassure fellow contributors that you actually understand that simple concept.  You are not alone in thinking Hoskins is not good enough; far from it. Until we have more choice I am at loss how to criticise Hoskins given all the known facts.

 ;D

Shouldn't someone be assisting Hoskins?
To be fair, they wouldn't actually get accredited with many 'assists'!  ;D

I remember being told a story about someone in McDonalds biting into a McChicken sandwich and getting a rather chewy bitter lump with her mayonnaise mouthful. The horror as she realised it wasn't actually mayonnaise... turns out the chicken had assist!  :P

True, but this doesn't tell the whole story. Wolves are something of an exceptional example as they have a very large budget and have also been working closely with a notorious agent which has led to them signing numerous players he represents who would otherwise be off their radar. The summer before last they signed players from Benfica and others who had been plying their trade in La Liga, one example is that they had Ruben Neves playing for them, in the Championship! They have also signed a few genuinely class players over the summer, some from the current Portuguese European Champions side.

Of the promoted teams from 16/17 still in the Prem, Newcastle and Huddersfield have struggled and are both currently firmly embroiled in a relegation scrap along with Fulham and Cardiff. The only reason any of these 4 will stay up is because there aren't enough relegation places, not because whichever club survives has 'made the transition successfully'.

It's also worth noting that the three relegated Championship teams from 16/17 (Wigan, Blackburn and Rotherham) were all promoted last season (Wigan and Blackburn very comfortably so) and that 2 of the 17/16 Championship relegated teams (Sunderland and Barnsley) are currently sitting comfortably in the top 6.

The gulf between the divisions as you move up the football pyramid really are that massive.

This is a fair point. However it also works the other way, and I've believed all season that if Van Veen was getting regular, good service, he would have scored more goals by now. I can think of a few examples where he has positioned himself free at the back post for a cross only for the ball to hit the first man or be over hit for a goal-kick. Same goes for Williams. How many 'chances' have they missed between them? 5 or 6?

If Hoskins really has created 31 'chances' then I'm sure many on here should be able to name them, being as that equates to an average of 2 'chances' created every match he has played in.

I can think of 2. Both short passes to Crooks for chances he missed. One against Morecambe in the first half and one early in the second half against Oldham. I'm not saying there aren't more, but they are the only two I can think of.

Woeful

Awesome

And the truth is he is probably somewhere in the middle - average with very occasional flashes of quality.

He has his usual lively game today, some decent crosses and a couple of shots on goal. He certainly did enough for me to justify his selection.

;D pis5 poor attempt  ;D

I’m surprised you would recognise any of the players with that white hood.

Can you please explain the relevance of that comment?

In what context?

If you want to play, I’ll go along with you..  ::) The white hood comment.

I’ll leave it - this snowflake is off

Hoskins in nowhere near good enough, never gas been and never will be of football league standard for starting week in week out. I can only imagine he has only kept his place because he has zero competition.

How he could/should be used is as a squad player/impact sub coming on for tge last 15/20 mins to run at tired defender legs as a direct threat.

Yet for all his obvious failings he is consistently chosen in the starting 11 by our ever growing list of managers who have had Super Sam on the payroll.  I find it baffling because he rarely makes a significant impact on a game and his goal scoring record is atrocious.  Lots of activity from him but precious little else.  It doesn't say much for the likes of Powell who has stacks more ability but is another one who disappoints. 

He has scored 1 goal in 39 league games. He's an attacking player. My mate and I both agreed yesterday that we don't ever believe he's going to score when he has a shot.

I really like Sam, and like our managers Id play him. He's the best that we've got for the role that he plays.

That said, Id have taken him off yesterday. I thought he was dreadful. I simply do not understand how anyone can suggest otherwise, and I readily accept football is very subjective!  ;D

Id have swapped him for Waters early doors in the 2nd half.

:'( :'( :'(

Even his normal chasing and running after the ball, a bit like an over excited dog, was missing yesterday.
It's the lack of competition wide that must keep him on the pitch?

Trouble is in Waters you have another bang average player and there lies part of the problem

I would still play Waters over Hoskins though!

It must be more than a bit disheartening for Waters to go from a scoring motm at Exeter to unused substitute in a game crying out for something different going forward.

Agree. I think Waters is an average L2 player, but I feel he does provide more goal-scoring threat than Hoskins and also possesses composure on the ball and a degree of footballing intelligence which IMO Hoskins does not. I think Curle sticks with Hoskins at the moment for his energy levels if nothing else.

I would start Hoskins in every game on current form and the players we have available for selection. More importantly our manager is in agreement.

On his current form of a goal a season? Most forwards measure their goalscoring by the game, Hoskins meausres it by the year

I think the fairest way to judge is goals per chances, rather than goals per game / season.

If you don't get the chances, you can't score the goals.

that said, I guess you could then argue the case that as an attacking player, there's a chances per game ration you might be interested and if you layer the goals per chances on top..... well you come back to the same thing.

Whats best, a player who gets 5 chances a game and sticks 1 in 20 away, or one who gets 1 chance a game but sticks every 4th one away.

Well, the truth is, they're the same but the second will probably look more clinical. In terms of profligacy, Hoskins is probably closer to the 1st description and someone like Powell closer to the second. Though you could argue Hoskins overall contribution "looks" better as he's a more industrious player.

Curiously Hoskins is attracting votes in the Clare Balding ratings for last Saturday. Listening to the commentary only vV seemed to be mentioned on a frequent basis.

All it shows is that no one really stood out apart from VV and Buchs so they are stretching it massively to have a shortlist of 4.

Tim Oglethorpe is not the definitive barometer to judge players on. I am sure he would be the first to admit this. Maybe he just likes beards?  ;)

Freeman Freestone was the man!

"Hoskins.....out for a throw in"

Agreed. Our last 4 managers have selected Hoskins so he must be ok. I just cannot see it.., but what do I know?

Hoskins is now like a comedy act, he runs faster after balls he knows he can't win  ;D
The shot that went out for a throw in dear oh dear.

He did alright tonight...

Thats some shot...  ;D

Remind me - How many goals this season from this "attacking" player. Dear me, indeed.

;D throw in even.

Hoskins could learn a bit or two from Pierre after his 'cameo' wing play, when he knocked the ball past their LB and ran round him, by the way that could have been a penalty for the tug when all we got was a corner.  Unfortunately the Referee was the wrong side.

The commentators mentioned that episode too; got the impression that they thought Hoskins contributions was err... limited. I see that Cornell has come in for some negative comments from a not unexpected quarter - are they justified?

Pierre probably has more goals than Hoskins :P

Haven't you heard, he was at fault for all three...  ;D