The Hotel End

The Hotel End => Cobblers Corner => Topic started by: tcobb on January 08, 2019, 22:03:57 pm



Title: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: tcobb on January 08, 2019, 22:03:57 pm
Seeing as there seems to be a liking to change ownership of NTFC, do people really think KT is doing such a bad job ?


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Manwork04 on January 08, 2019, 22:08:54 pm
Seeing as there seems to be a liking to change ownership of NTFC, do people really think KT is doing such a bad job ?
No, his hearts not in it and never has been.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest3230 on January 08, 2019, 22:12:25 pm
I voted yes.

Purely on the basis I don't know who or what the alternative is though. Not because I think he is doing well.

End of story. Bye.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: ajp on January 08, 2019, 22:16:00 pm
ĎIfí thereís a better option then he should go, but I think the very reason heís still here gives us the answer that thereís not.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest3114 on January 08, 2019, 22:29:11 pm
As touched upon already, this can only be answered comparatively to all viable options? I think KT is doing as well as could be expected from any outsider, given that an outsider will always put their own interests before that of the club. Thatís to be expected and completely reasonable but doesnít and will never reconcile with the expectations of the supporters. An unhappy marriage if you will and will always be the case whichever outside investor turns up.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Manwork04 on January 08, 2019, 22:31:17 pm
As touched upon already, this can only be answered comparatively to all viable options? I think KT is doing as well as could be expected from any outsider, given that an outsider will always put their own interests before that of the club. Thatís to be expected and completely reasonable but doesnít and will never reconcile with the expectations of the supporters. An unhappy marriage if you will and will always be the case whichever outside investor turns up.
You seriously think he is doing well?
I think the sun and the mid strength gone to your head buddy.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest3114 on January 08, 2019, 22:33:48 pm
You seriously think he is doing well?
I think the sun and the mid strength gone to your head buddy.
Didnít say that Manny, what I am trying to point out is that an outsider coming in and taking over a football club is far from an ideal combo. A bit like vodka and 150 lashes if you will?


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest170 on January 09, 2019, 08:15:55 am
If someone better comes along who can grow the club then he should sell up and move on which I believe he will do. I dont think he should be chased out of the club or give it to the fans however.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: meccanostand on January 09, 2019, 09:04:14 am
Wrote this a few months ago for the NeneQuirer. Not much has changed since. There are macro level problems at this football club, many predate Kelvin Thomas. They are solvable though and think we've reached the tipping point.

https://nenequirer.com/2018/09/17/gripped-by-the-cobblers-we-cant-go-on-like-this/ (https://nenequirer.com/2018/09/17/gripped-by-the-cobblers-we-cant-go-on-like-this/)


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: cobblerwatch on January 09, 2019, 09:18:12 am
Wrote this a few months ago for the NeneQuirer. Not much has changed since. There are macro level problems at this football club, many predate Kelvin Thomas. They are solvable though and think we've reached the tipping point.

https://nenequirer.com/2018/09/17/gripped-by-the-cobblers-we-cant-go-on-like-this/ (https://nenequirer.com/2018/09/17/gripped-by-the-cobblers-we-cant-go-on-like-this/)


Sadly true & a well written article that rather concentrating on a KT hate campaign highlights the real issues - it's sad and whilst easy to suggest what should be done, reality is playing out a different and miserable outcome.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: the grumpy old man on January 09, 2019, 09:22:48 am
Is he still here? You never hear from him.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: meccanostand on January 09, 2019, 09:39:29 am
Sadly true & a well written article that rather concentrating on a KT hate campaign highlights the real issues - it's sad and whilst easy to suggest what should be done, reality is playing out a different and miserable outcome.

Absolutely no point hounding Kelvin Thomas. He has done little wrong as long as has stuck to the terms of his takeover and the club is solvent like he has said. I just question whether he has the time and desire to tackle the bigger issues at the club and instigate a sea change in its direction.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: CobblerForever on January 09, 2019, 09:42:59 am
Does anyone know (the Trust possibly) when the club will need a further cash injection from the owners to keep going ? The witching hour must be coming soon - season ticket cash spent, very high wage bill to pay, knocked out of all cup competitions, very few additional persons prepared to watch mediocre League 2 football, most valuable asset sold on the first (?) day of the transfer window.

Is the Football League subsidy paid in instalments through the season or in one lump sum ?


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: meccanostand on January 09, 2019, 09:48:05 am
Does anyone know (the Trust possibly) when the club will need a further cash injection from the owners to keep going ? The witching hour must be coming soon - season ticket cash spent, very high wage bill to pay, knocked out of all cup competitions, very few additional persons prepared to watch mediocre League 2 football, most valuable asset sold on the first (?) day of the transfer window.

Is the Football League subsidy paid in instalments through the season or in one lump sum ?

The Trust should be all over the books after the Cardoza reign.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Wattie on January 09, 2019, 09:53:12 am
I believe he is doing the best he can within current constraints


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Teachers Pet on January 09, 2019, 09:57:29 am
Yes, because we don't appear to have any suitable replacement coming forward.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: meccanostand on January 09, 2019, 09:58:38 am
Yes, because we don't appear to have any suitable replacement coming forward.

We have no idea what interest there is in the club so that is a moot point.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Irchy cob on January 09, 2019, 10:09:46 am
KTís response in the past has always been that he has provided every manager with as much as he could, the biggest criticism you can level at him is that post Wilder he has appointed a succession of crap managers who have in turn spunked fortunes up the wall on average to poor players. Whilst saying that, there was no way of knowing at the time that these managers and players were going to be as much of a disaster as they have been and weíre paying royally (literally) for that now. My biggest concern is that on several occasions he has said that he is happy with everything apart from the results - I think the vast majority of the supporters would take issue with that as I canít see one thing about the club at the moment that is positive. Make no mistake if we donít scramble a win in the near future we are in a real crisis, looking at the form table we are on a terrible run - we have lost one of the only ďflairĒ players that we had and if we were to lose crooks as well I donít know where weíll be.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: claretparrot on January 09, 2019, 10:14:39 am
We have no idea what interest there is in the club so that is a moot point.

By that logic, this thread shouldn't exist


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Another Pedj on January 09, 2019, 10:15:38 am
Does anyone know (the Trust possibly) when the club will need a further cash injection from the owners to keep going ? The witching hour must be coming soon - season ticket cash spent, very high wage bill to pay, knocked out of all cup competitions, very few additional persons prepared to watch mediocre League 2 football, most valuable asset sold on the first (?) day of the transfer window.

Is the Football League subsidy paid in instalments through the season or in one lump sum ?

The clubs funding is supported on an ongoing basis by the Shareholders. They want to sell to recover their injections to date. They will continue to support at least in the short term.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Another Pedj on January 09, 2019, 10:17:45 am
The Trust should be all over the books after the Cardoza reign.

On what basis. They are only a minority shareholder. Unless the Companies articles allow it they have no right to access any financial information other than the Annual accounts


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: claretparrot on January 09, 2019, 10:18:27 am
Does anyone know (the Trust possibly) when the club will need a further cash injection from the owners to keep going ? The witching hour must be coming soon - season ticket cash spent, very high wage bill to pay, knocked out of all cup competitions, very few additional persons prepared to watch mediocre League 2 football, most valuable asset sold on the first (?) day of the transfer window.

Is the Football League subsidy paid in instalments through the season or in one lump sum ?

Isn't this just a description of the average season over the last couple of decades? Aside from selling a valuable asset on day one of the window, which of course brought cash into the club and reduced the wage bill


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: BedsCobb on January 09, 2019, 11:07:28 am
I believe he is doing the best he can within current constraints
Of which are entirely his/ their own making.
Had he, over 3 and a half years ago, worked with the clubs supporters and the whole town of Northampton to steadily and sustainability build the club up to be more self sufficient and league 1 ready he would've found things a whole lot easier today.
Back then he gave me the the impression his thoughts on NTFC are that of a small insignificant  back water football club that could provide valuble land deals if he could just keep the trusting natives happy with a few token gestures and then stringing out their  redevelopment hopes by hiding behind excuse after excuse after excuse.
For the above, I fully blame all those who were privy to his initial 'meet and greet' where those present representing the wishes of NTFC said nothing to demand action or correct his lowly thoughts on the club he had just taken over!
Now they have achieved their aims acquiring  council land deals/ leases, their time at our club has fully run its course and now should allow our club the oppertunity to move forward without any further delay.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest2090 on January 09, 2019, 14:07:58 pm
until an alternative is found, yes of course.
yes the stadium is a mess, yes we are back in L2, but you cannot argue with the spending in the summer of 17, January 18 and lack of A firesale in the summer of 18.  The team has been given loads of backing financially. 


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: meccanostand on January 09, 2019, 14:52:30 pm
until an alternative is found, yes of course.
yes the stadium is a mess, yes we are back in L2, but you cannot argue with the spending in the summer of 17, January 18 and lack of A firesale in the summer of 18.  The team has been given loads of backing financially. 

It's not about just setting a budget it's about a transfer policy etc


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: claretparrot on January 09, 2019, 15:05:53 pm
It's not about just setting a budget it's about a transfer policy etc

Agree that transfer policy is important, but I'm not sure it is (or should be) the responsibility of the owner


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: meccanostand on January 09, 2019, 15:14:42 pm
Agree that transfer policy is important, but I'm not sure it is (or should be) the responsibility of the owner

Its a rounded process. Of course you need someone in charge with a bit of nous, of course it needs direction. The shelf life of a manager is so short now.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Winslow Lee on January 09, 2019, 15:20:37 pm
Would like to see us make better use of the youth team, even as bit part players rather than almost two teams with of journeymen.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: claretparrot on January 09, 2019, 15:20:56 pm
Its a rounded process. Of course you need someone in charge with a bit of nous, of course it needs direction. The shelf life of a manager is so short now.

An owner absolutely needs to be providing challenge and not blindly handing out cash. However, most owners aren't 'football people' (KT is an exception to some extent), and so I definitely wouldn't be comfortable with the owner devising and implementing an overall transfer policy.

I struggle to think of a signing under KT that, on announcement, was considered crazy or financially irresponsible by even a majority on here. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: BackOfTheNet on January 09, 2019, 15:57:16 pm
Here's my take on things. The parent company of the firm I work for got into financial bother a while back. It was nothing to do with us but it affected our cash flow and we had to go out and get a large credit facility put into place to tide us over. We got one and continued to operate as normal, but the company that offered the facility did so at a premium. We had to take it because without it we'd have been in trouble.

The company we borrowed from has no affinity with us or our line of business, no loyalty to us and no long term interest in our success - they simply saw a business opportunity and took it. Maybe they were taking advantage to a degree but the truth is, we owe them our survival.

The same is true for KT and DB. They are football people, certainly but first and foremost they are businessmen. They aren't Cobblers fans and they have (I presume) no long term desire to stay at the club. They didn't leap in out of the goodness of their hearts. They saw an opportunity and took it. As much as it pains some people to admit, the bulk of that opportunity wasn't a L2 football team on the bones of its arse, it was the associated land that surrounds it.

At the time, I'm sure we'd all agree it was a mutually beneficial relationship - in the short term they bail us out, steady the ship and get the east stand usable again (which it is, even if it's ****) and in the medium term they turn a profit from developing the surrounding land and (ideally) finishing off the east stand before moving along.

The problem is, the medium term has turned out to be a lot longer than anyone anticipated and it's given some people time to think about it and start going "hang on a minute, he's not a Cobblers fan, he's just here to make money!" and have started to work themselves into a lather about it.

The truth is, when KT and DB bailed us out we were happy to take their hands off because it saved our club. Maybe it's just because I'm a cold hearted capitalist and not an idealist, but to me we owe them the chance to make their money back, just as my company will eventually have to pay off the expensive credit facility we were granted.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: 1971cobbler on January 09, 2019, 16:16:10 pm
Here's my take on things. The parent company of the firm I work for got into financial bother a while back. It was nothing to do with us but it affected our cash flow and we had to go out and get a large credit facility put into place to tide us over. We got one and continued to operate as normal, but the company that offered the facility did so at a premium. We had to take it because without it we'd have been in trouble.

The company we borrowed from has no affinity with us or our line of business, no loyalty to us and no long term interest in our success - they simply saw a business opportunity and took it. Maybe they were taking advantage to a degree but the truth is, we owe them our survival.

The same is true for KT and DB. They are football people, certainly but first and foremost they are businessmen. They aren't Cobblers fans and they have (I presume) no long term desire to stay at the club. They didn't leap in out of the goodness of their hearts. They saw an opportunity and took it. As much as it pains some people to admit, the bulk of that opportunity wasn't a L2 football team on the bones of its arse, it was the associated land that surrounds it.

At the time, I'm sure we'd all agree it was a mutually beneficial relationship - in the short term they bail us out, steady the ship and get the east stand usable again (which it is, even if it's ****) and in the medium term they turn a profit from developing the surrounding land and (ideally) finishing off the east stand before moving along.

The problem is, the medium term has turned out to be a lot longer than anyone anticipated and it's given some people time to think about it and start going "hang on a minute, he's not a Cobblers fan, he's just here to make money!" and have started to work themselves into a lather about it.

The truth is, when KT and DB bailed us out we were happy to take their hands off because it saved our club. Maybe it's just because I'm a cold hearted capitalist and not an idealist, but to me we owe them the chance to make their money back, just as my company will eventually have to pay off the expensive credit facility we were granted.


Best post yet in my opinion, which explains the situation perfectly.



Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest2090 on January 09, 2019, 16:27:32 pm
It's not about just setting a budget it's about a transfer policy etc

How many of the signings in the summer of 17 or Jan 18 did any of us disagree with.  There will be exceptions, but on paper we brought good players with good experience.  I am no super KT fan, but allowing your manager to manage and make decisions about his team and incomings and outgoings surely is a tick in the box for KT.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest2090 on January 09, 2019, 16:29:43 pm
Here's my take on things. The parent company of the firm I work for got into financial bother a while back. It was nothing to do with us but it affected our cash flow and we had to go out and get a large credit facility put into place to tide us over. We got one and continued to operate as normal, but the company that offered the facility did so at a premium. We had to take it because without it we'd have been in trouble.

The company we borrowed from has no affinity with us or our line of business, no loyalty to us and no long term interest in our success - they simply saw a business opportunity and took it. Maybe they were taking advantage to a degree but the truth is, we owe them our survival.

The same is true for KT and DB. They are football people, certainly but first and foremost they are businessmen. They aren't Cobblers fans and they have (I presume) no long term desire to stay at the club. They didn't leap in out of the goodness of their hearts. They saw an opportunity and took it. As much as it pains some people to admit, the bulk of that opportunity wasn't a L2 football team on the bones of its arse, it was the associated land that surrounds it.

At the time, I'm sure we'd all agree it was a mutually beneficial relationship - in the short term they bail us out, steady the ship and get the east stand usable again (which it is, even if it's ****) and in the medium term they turn a profit from developing the surrounding land and (ideally) finishing off the east stand before moving along.

The problem is, the medium term has turned out to be a lot longer than anyone anticipated and it's given some people time to think about it and start going "hang on a minute, he's not a Cobblers fan, he's just here to make money!" and have started to work themselves into a lather about it.

The truth is, when KT and DB bailed us out we were happy to take their hands off because it saved our club. Maybe it's just because I'm a cold hearted capitalist and not an idealist, but to me we owe them the chance to make their money back, just as my company will eventually have to pay off the expensive credit facility we were granted.

this reads like a fair and honest summary of where we are.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Turf Claret on January 09, 2019, 16:30:42 pm
Here's my take on things. The parent company of the firm I work for got into financial bother a while back. It was nothing to do with us but it affected our cash flow and we had to go out and get a large credit facility put into place to tide us over. We got one and continued to operate as normal, but the company that offered the facility did so at a premium. We had to take it because without it we'd have been in trouble.

The company we borrowed from has no affinity with us or our line of business, no loyalty to us and no long term interest in our success - they simply saw a business opportunity and took it. Maybe they were taking advantage to a degree but the truth is, we owe them our survival.

The same is true for KT and DB. They are football people, certainly but first and foremost they are businessmen. They aren't Cobblers fans and they have (I presume) no long term desire to stay at the club. They didn't leap in out of the goodness of their hearts. They saw an opportunity and took it. As much as it pains some people to admit, the bulk of that opportunity wasn't a L2 football team on the bones of its arse, it was the associated land that surrounds it.

At the time, I'm sure we'd all agree it was a mutually beneficial relationship - in the short term they bail us out, steady the ship and get the east stand usable again (which it is, even if it's ****) and in the medium term they turn a profit from developing the surrounding land and (ideally) finishing off the east stand before moving along.

The problem is, the medium term has turned out to be a lot longer than anyone anticipated and it's given some people time to think about it and start going "hang on a minute, he's not a Cobblers fan, he's just here to make money!" and have started to work themselves into a lather about it.

The truth is, when KT and DB bailed us out we were happy to take their hands off because it saved our club. Maybe it's just because I'm a cold hearted capitalist and not an idealist, but to me we owe them the chance to make their money back, just as my company will eventually have to pay off the expensive credit facility we were granted.

I think you've summed it up quite cogently there. The truth is sometimes hard to accept.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: BedsCobb on January 09, 2019, 16:46:46 pm

Best post yet in my opinion, which explains the situation perfectly.


No it doesn't,  his company was on the bones of its ar5e with no other option,  Our football club could've been saved by dozens of others but sadly didn't get a look in so we were stuck with you.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: BedsCobb on January 09, 2019, 16:51:25 pm
Let's not forget it was the council writing of the £10m that SAVED our club... no one else.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest2090 on January 09, 2019, 16:52:24 pm
No it doesn't,  his company was on the bones of its ar5e with no other option,  Our football club could've been saved by dozens of others but sadly didn't get a look in so we were stuck with you.

Who are these 'dozens' and where are they now?  The club is up for sale.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: meccanostand on January 09, 2019, 16:55:13 pm
Here's my take on things. The parent company of the firm I work for got into financial bother a while back. It was nothing to do with us but it affected our cash flow and we had to go out and get a large credit facility put into place to tide us over. We got one and continued to operate as normal, but the company that offered the facility did so at a premium. We had to take it because without it we'd have been in trouble.

The company we borrowed from has no affinity with us or our line of business, no loyalty to us and no long term interest in our success - they simply saw a business opportunity and took it. Maybe they were taking advantage to a degree but the truth is, we owe them our survival.

The same is true for KT and DB. They are football people, certainly but first and foremost they are businessmen. They aren't Cobblers fans and they have (I presume) no long term desire to stay at the club. They didn't leap in out of the goodness of their hearts. They saw an opportunity and took it. As much as it pains some people to admit, the bulk of that opportunity wasn't a L2 football team on the bones of its arse, it was the associated land that surrounds it.

At the time, I'm sure we'd all agree it was a mutually beneficial relationship - in the short term they bail us out, steady the ship and get the east stand usable again (which it is, even if it's ****) and in the medium term they turn a profit from developing the surrounding land and (ideally) finishing off the east stand before moving along.

The problem is, the medium term has turned out to be a lot longer than anyone anticipated and it's given some people time to think about it and start going "hang on a minute, he's not a Cobblers fan, he's just here to make money!" and have started to work themselves into a lather about it.

The truth is, when KT and DB bailed us out we were happy to take their hands off because it saved our club. Maybe it's just because I'm a cold hearted capitalist and not an idealist, but to me we owe them the chance to make their money back, just as my company will eventually have to pay off the expensive credit facility we were granted.

Some interesting points there but

Not sure what line of work you are in but it sounds an awkward comparison. Making their money back sure in terms of personal infrastructural investment and basic business costs but that's about it.

We don't know what other interested parties there were at the time.

How are Kelvin Thomas and David Bower football people? Whatever that means anyway.

The Council have stated that the the Bower/Thomas consortium indicated they had immediate funds to finish the East Stand on their takeover. There was no mention of profit from developing surrounding land (if that is the case).

Whether they "saved"  the club or it could have been righted by other parties or other means is again, open to argument.

Finishing the East Stand will be no panacea anyway. The issues at the club are more wide ranging and more embedded. I would agree though that hounding KT out is not the answer. The club needs a vision with or without him.



Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: meccanostand on January 09, 2019, 16:57:03 pm
Who are these 'dozens' and where are they now?  The club is up for sale.

At what price?


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest2090 on January 09, 2019, 17:10:29 pm
At what price?

i think we can all agree that 'dozens' is a significant exaggeration of the truth.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest3114 on January 09, 2019, 17:12:04 pm
Ive mentioned this before, but the big mistake made at this club was the Chinese money and the impact that had on the signing policy that summer. If you recall JE was in charge and we seemed to take an age to make any signings. Many other clubs had either finished or were a long way to finishing their transfer business before we even got going. Possibly this was because those at the top knew the money was coming and told the likes of JE and Melville to stall throwing any cohesive plan they may have had regarding recruitment out of the window. Once it arrived there was an air of panic buying and like kids in a sweet shop it seemed that we went around buying the biggest name players we could get without much thought to whether they were the right fit as a collective or whether they had the right attitude. Its my opinion that 2 things linger from that event. The first is that we are still struggling with the ramifications of that today with an unbalanced squad, short on certain qualities. The second that whole debacle was created from the very top, right sentiment but misjudged in timing as the recruitment became chaotic. In any event if the manager is not backed from the top and doesnít have the necessary clear out, the inconsistency and underachieving will continue. Personally Iíd chop 11 of them, possibly 12. Iím not going to name them as itís all subjective and I canít be bothered to row about individuals.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: BedsCobb on January 09, 2019, 17:14:38 pm
Who are these 'dozens' and where are they now?  The club is up for sale.
As soon as the club is up forsale at its real market value, you will see the alternative owners we missed out on last time.
After the council withdraw its demands for £10m it was a closed shop with a group claiming they were willing to invest £4m in the club...but didnt.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest2090 on January 09, 2019, 17:20:54 pm
Ive mentioned this before, but the big mistake made at this club was the Chinese money and the impact that had on the signing policy that summer. If you recall JE was in charge and we seemed to take an age to make any signings. Many other clubs had either finished or were a long way to finishing their transfer business before we even got going. Possibly this was because those at the top knew the money was coming and told the likes of JE and Melville to stall throwing any cohesive plan they may have had regarding recruitment out of the window. Once it arrived there was an air of panic buying and like kids in a sweet shop it seemed that we went around buying the biggest name players we could get without much thought to whether they were the right fit as a collective or whether they had the right attitude. Its my opinion that 2 things linger from that event. The first is that we are still struggling with the ramifications of that today with an unbalanced squad, short on certain qualities. The second that whole debacle was created from the very top, right sentiment but misjudged in timing as the recruitment became chaotic. In any event if the manager is not backed from the top and doesnít have the necessary clear out, the inconsistency and underachieving will continue. Personally Iíd chop 11 of them, possibly 12. Iím not going to name them as itís all subjective and I canít be bothered to row about individuals.

pre chinese - Powell, Bowditch, Waters, Barnett, Foley
Post chinese (26/6) - Crooks, Taylor, Pierre, Kasim, Smith (plus caddington late august)

Not sure there was panic buying, the 'investment' came in a good 6 weeks pre the season starting.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest2090 on January 09, 2019, 17:23:28 pm
As soon as the club is up forsale at its real market value, you will see the alternative owners we missed out on last time.
After the council withdraw its demands for £10m it was a closed shop with a group claiming they were willing to invest £4m in the club...but didnt.

they haven't invested £4m in a stand, but there has been plenty of other investment in keeping the ship sailing?

are there dozens of alternative investors or just the odd one or two?


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: barton cobbler on January 09, 2019, 17:28:55 pm
they haven't invested £4m in a stand, but there has been plenty of other investment in keeping the ship sailing?
Didn't KT say the £4M for the East Stand was "Ring fenced" ?


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest2090 on January 09, 2019, 17:31:50 pm
Didn't KT say the £4M for the East Stand was "Ring fenced" ?

no doubt he did, obviously he has changed his mind, can't say i blame him.  i suppose i was trying to illustrate that he has chucked plenty of money in and built probably our most expensive ever squad, that we wouldn't have had with out him


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: BedsCobb on January 09, 2019, 17:36:08 pm
they haven't invested £4m in a stand, but there has been plenty of other investment in keeping the ship sailing?

are there dozens of alternative investors or just the odd one or two?
Having to pay for mistake after mistake due to their inability to run a football club with a 300,000 catchment in a proper diligent manner can in no way be described as 'investing ' in the club.
Remember cardozas £8,000,000 imaginary 'investment' into running our club, where we didn't have anything to show for such a vast amount that presented itself in the form of loans to the club!
When will this madness end and our club given a chance.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: random on January 09, 2019, 17:59:01 pm
yep madness that so many fans can only see to the end of the touchline.

KT is a good owner because he has spend silly money........... on crap managers and crap players. It does not make any sense.

So if everything KT has done is so good then why on earth are we just above the relegation zone on another terrible run, back in the bottom division?  The reason is simple because he not spent any / much money on the basics of improving a football club, one that was mothballed by the last idiot owner.

Can someone please explain this to me and why they also think it is ok for KT to take land that NTFC controlled into his own personal business?


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: 1971cobbler on January 09, 2019, 18:18:44 pm
No it doesn't,  his company was on the bones of its ar5e with no other option,  Our football club could've been saved by dozens of others but sadly didn't get a look in so we were stuck with you.


Stuck with me?


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Manwork04 on January 09, 2019, 18:49:29 pm
So most people voted No because there is no alternative.....fcuking unbelievable and people wonder why we are in a sh1ty little stadium with a crap team in the bottom of the basement division.
This is the mentality of the support base and one of the reasons why as they say on Dragons Den I'm out.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Zen Master on January 09, 2019, 19:20:49 pm

 why they also think it is ok for KT to take land that NTFC controlled into his own personal business?

Iím probably confused but when and how did KT take NTFC controlled land? Any change of leasehold arrangements and separation was done by DC and his First Land/CDNL cronies.

Any duplication or confusion of leases is detailed in the following documents.

http://www.northamptonboroughcouncil.com/councillors/documents/s56434/Sixfields%20cabinet%20V7%207June
http://www.northamptonboroughcouncil.com/councillors/documents/s56435/Plan.pdf%20final.docx?CT=2

I certainly think that the current ownership need to be more open than they have been and give some clarity on their plans if any for the ground, their intentions to sell on or not.
Although it could be a matter of not the clubs business any more, but to understand their plans for the CDNL leased land and if any realised profit would be invested into club infrastructure or not.

Starting to get a bit apathetic about it all really. Good football would be a distraction


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Clarity on January 09, 2019, 19:27:04 pm
no doubt he did, obviously he has changed his mind, can't say i blame him.  i suppose i was trying to illustrate that he has chucked plenty of money in and built probably our most expensive ever squad, that we wouldn't have had with out him
Can you hear the drums Fernando?
Do you still recall the fateful night we crossed the Rio Grande?


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: BackOfTheNet on January 09, 2019, 19:28:19 pm


How are Kelvin Thomas and David Bower football people? Whatever that means anyway.

The Council have stated that the the Bower/Thomas consortium indicated they had immediate funds to finish the East Stand on their takeover. There was no mention of profit from developing surrounding land (if that is the case).

Whether they "saved"  the club or it could have been righted by other parties or other means is again, open to argument.

Finishing the East Stand will be no panacea anyway. The issues at the club are more wide ranging and more embedded. I would agree though that hounding KT out is not the answer. The club needs a vision with or without him.



By "football people" I simply mean they are football fans who I get the impression enjoy their football and get a bit of a kick out of running a club, in much the same way a lot of people without the same means enjoy playing Football Manager. I still think this is a sideshow to the main reason they are here though.

I'm in no position to comment on the state of the funds available for completing the east stand. Maybe they were there, maybe they weren't, maybe they still are... with all the outstanding legal issues, would you blow millions on tarting up a stand unless you were sure the whole project (whatever that might be) would be allowed to be completed? I know I wouldn't.

As to the other parties that showed an interest, we know a couple of them were less than reputable characters and the other was a well-meaning but ragtag consortium of local businessmen who were fans and as such wanted to bail the club out. I think it's fair to say none of us know the specifics of what any of the offers looked like, but the best idea we can get is from Wilder in "that" interview where he described it as a rescue plan and no more than that. I've no reason to doubt him on that. I seem to remember Binley and co happily stepping aside when they weren't needed anymore because they were acting out of desperation to save a football club rather than a desire to own one.

Either way, it was KT and DB that ended up providing the funds that DID save our club from oblivion. Any supposition about what any other party might have done if they'd taken over is pretty pointless because it's just that: supposition.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Clarity on January 09, 2019, 19:30:53 pm
pre chinese - Powell, Bowditch, Waters, Barnett, Foley
Post chinese (26/6) - Crooks, Taylor, Pierre, Kasim, Smith (plus caddington late august)

Not sure there was panic buying, the 'investment' came in a good 6 weeks pre the season starting.

Did you forget Matt Grimes Fernando?


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Boot and shoe on January 09, 2019, 21:28:17 pm
Did you forget Matt Grimes Fernando?
Your list would be more damning when the loans are included .
Some serious money wasted there , not to mention disruption.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: BedsCobb on January 09, 2019, 22:07:44 pm

Stuck with me?
My apologies Mrs Thomas.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest3114 on January 09, 2019, 23:31:34 pm
pre chinese - Powell, Bowditch, Waters, Barnett, Foley
Post chinese (26/6) - Crooks, Taylor, Pierre, Kasim, Smith (plus caddington late august)

Not sure there was panic buying, the 'investment' came in a good 6 weeks pre the season starting.

Hmmm, a sceptic I see? As I said I recall other clubs claimed to have finished their transfer business before we had started, Gillingham and Mansfield to name 2. Trouble with that is your options start to narrow often to second and third choice options. At least thatís what I thought at the time. Practically none could be classed as a success and look at the managers we have got through. As bad as most think they all were at some point responsibility has to shift to the players apparent mental fragility. Hereís a question, if we were in another relegation fight how many of our current lot would you choose to be on the pitch to fight for our survival? Iím struggling to get past 3 at a push?


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest170 on January 10, 2019, 07:15:50 am
So most people voted No because there is no alternative.....fcuking unbelievable and people wonder why we are in a sh1ty little stadium with a crap team in the bottom of the basement division.
This is the mentality of the support base and one of the reasons why as they say on Dragons Den I'm out.
Whats the alternative then? Surely driving out a chairman with no one to take over and hoping for the best is worst than someone who is at least maintaining the status quo? I must be missing something.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: DrillingCobbler on January 10, 2019, 07:26:03 am
Im really struggling to see how/why he gets so much 'support'.

Im not going to blame him for our struggling league status, each and every manager has had a decent budget to work with (although that looks like it *might* be changing now). Thats football. Sh1t happens.

However. In 3 plus years, he's achieved diddly squat as far as the club as a whole is concerned. Unless you count 'cleaning up the leases' and making the club potentially more of an asset as a whole, but even that is debatable and currently only favours him and his backer/s.

Id like to see the pressure fully ramped up on him from all circles and I wholeheartedly believe that in the coming weeks it will. When people start to get an idea of the money he may well have made from the Chinese 'windfall' (Im lead to believe this is 5-7million quid and I wouldn't put that on here if I wasn't confident, albeit I have no way to back it up - lets be clear here, there is currently no trail of funds available to see. Then possibly those who 'support' his current manifesto which *appears* to be to make as much money from the land he has got hold of, with zero tangible benefit to NTFC (we can all agree there are no publicised plans), could start to feel very differently.

As far as other options, we do not know what those options may/may not be. HOWEVER. I know for a fact he's had meetings with reputable suitors, I believe he wants/wanted 3-4 million quid for the club. Im also going to now speculate that this figure may have changed due to 'positive' dialogue with the council, with him thinking that more ££ could be on offer for 'an inhouse job' as far as redeveloping the land is concerned. I re-iterate, the last part in particular Im putting two and two together but it cannot be ruled out. That is my BIGGEST CONCERN as far as the current situation is.

Im not going to comment on this further; Im not going to answer any pm's. It will come out soon enough. All I hope is that people remain open minded. Its a difficult one because we assume bills are being paid on time etc, and theres no reason to think otherwise. Its only when that doesn't happen when large segments of our support get twitchy. I cant see that changing under his watch, he's got to much of an 'asset' to look after. What I don't want to see is another x period of time where the club is run at minimal costs, and zero investment. He's done his time, he needs to go quite frankly.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest2090 on January 10, 2019, 08:24:17 am
Im really struggling to see how/why he gets so much 'support'.

Im not going to blame him for our struggling league status, each and every manager has had a decent budget to work with (although that looks like it *might* be changing now). Thats football. Sh1t happens.

However. In 3 plus years, he's achieved diddly squat as far as the club as a whole is concerned. Unless you count 'cleaning up the leases' and making the club potentially more of an asset as a whole, but even that is debatable and currently only favours him and his backer/s.

Id like to see the pressure fully ramped up on him from all circles and I wholeheartedly believe that in the coming weeks it will. When people start to get an idea of the money he may well have made from the Chinese 'windfall' (Im lead to believe this is 5-7million quid and I wouldn't put that on here if I wasn't confident, albeit I have no way to back it up - lets be clear here, there is currently no trail of funds available to see. Then possibly those who 'support' his current manifesto which *appears* to be to make as much money from the land he has got hold of, with zero tangible benefit to NTFC (we can all agree there are no publicised plans), could start to feel very differently.

As far as other options, we do not know what those options may/may not be. HOWEVER. I know for a fact he's had meetings with reputable suitors, I believe he wants/wanted 3-4 million quid for the club. Im also going to now speculate that this figure may have changed due to 'positive' dialogue with the council, with him thinking that more ££ could be on offer for 'an inhouse job' as far as redeveloping the land is concerned. I re-iterate, the last part in particular Im putting two and two together but it cannot be ruled out. That is my BIGGEST CONCERN as far as the current situation is.

Im not going to comment on this further; Im not going to answer any pm's. It will come out soon enough. All I hope is that people remain open minded. Its a difficult one because we assume bills are being paid on time etc, and theres no reason to think otherwise. Its only when that doesn't happen when large segments of our support get twitchy. I cant see that changing under his watch, he's got to much of an 'asset' to look after. What I don't want to see is another x period of time where the club is run at minimal costs, and zero investment. He's done his time, he needs to go quite frankly.

i certainly have an open mind and based on this i look forward to being better informed in the next few weeks.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Manwork04 on January 10, 2019, 08:56:55 am
Whats the alternative then? Surely driving out a chairman with no one to take over and hoping for the best is worst than someone who is at least maintaining the status quo? I must be missing something.
The alternative is he lowers his asking price to a sensible amount that we get an owner who is willing to invest.
There are numerous meetings with potential buyers FACT.
The fact that so many of our support are happy with the status quo is deeply worrying for the future, personally I am not happy with flirting with relegation to non league on a regular basis.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: 1971cobbler on January 10, 2019, 09:43:47 am
My apologies Mrs Thomas.

BedsCobb, I can assure you that I have absolutely no link to the club in any way other than being a matchday supporter when finances allow. I would appreciate it if you could refrain from implying otherwise.

My comments earlier were my opinion about the takeover situation at the time (I think we were proverbially on the edge of the cliff) and I agree with the poster who said that KT and DB saw a business opportunity and took it. No more, no less.

Also, in my opinion only of course, the next change of ownership is probably the most important in the club's history.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Dan on January 10, 2019, 12:50:41 pm
The alternative is he lowers his asking price to a sensible amount that we get an owner who is willing to invest.
There are numerous meetings with potential buyers FACT.
The fact that so many of our support are happy with the status quo is deeply worrying for the future, personally I am not happy with flirting with relegation to non league on a regular basis.

Must agree. The words "we've always been a fourth division club" is getting tiresome.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest170 on January 10, 2019, 13:35:40 pm
The alternative is he lowers his asking price to a sensible amount that we get an owner who is willing to invest.
There are numerous meetings with potential buyers FACT.
The fact that so many of our support are happy with the status quo is deeply worrying for the future, personally I am not happy with flirting with relegation to non league on a regular basis.
It is a fact that he has held meetings, the amount he is asking for (as far as I am aware) is purely fictional.
If the question was KT or [INSERT NAME] then as long as the person was suitable then I would vote for the person. When its KT or nothing then its KT. Thats what I mean by a viable alternative.
KT just no longer being in the chair with no one to replace him, or just saying 'the fans will do it' isnt for me viable.
Even though I am generally against the idea of fan owned, if a full and clear proposal was put forward then it can be reviewed, at the moment we dont have that. With the work the Trust are apparently doing, and i think Meccano might be involved then we may have a viable alternative.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: barton cobbler on January 10, 2019, 13:54:52 pm
Id like to see the pressure fully ramped up on him from all circles and I wholeheartedly believe that in the coming weeks it will. When people start to get an idea of the money he may well have made from the Chinese 'windfall' (Im lead to believe this is 5-7million quid and I wouldn't put that on here if I wasn't confident, albeit I have no way to back it up - lets be clear here, there is currently no trail of funds available to see. Then possibly those who 'support' his current manifesto which *appears* to be to make as much money from the land he has got hold of, with zero tangible benefit to NTFC (we can all agree there are no publicised plans), could start to feel very differently.

.
Probably just a coincidence that NTFC came under the "umbrella" of the British Virgin Islands registered company, Belle De Jour around the same time ?


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest2090 on January 10, 2019, 14:01:41 pm


Id like to see the pressure fully ramped up on him from all circles and I wholeheartedly believe that in the coming weeks it will. When people start to get an idea of the money he may well have made from the Chinese 'windfall' (Im lead to believe this is 5-7million quid and I wouldn't put that on here if I wasn't confident, albeit I have no way to back it up - lets be clear here, there is currently no trail of funds available to see. Then possibly those who 'support' his current manifesto which *appears* to be to make as much money from the land he has got hold of, with zero tangible benefit to NTFC (we can all agree there are no publicised plans), could start to feel very differently.


if memory serves me right, when the chinese arrangement went sour, most on here were suggesting no money was ever invested, which makes your allegation that he made 5-7 million quid out of it difficult to understand (and yes i may be a tad slow, but i can't work it out).


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: ntfc01 on January 10, 2019, 17:39:27 pm
The alternative is he lowers his asking price to a sensible amount that we get an owner who is willing to invest.
There are numerous meetings with potential buyers FACT.
The fact that so many of our support are happy with the status quo is deeply worrying for the future, personally I am not happy with flirting with relegation to non league on a regular basis.

I wouldn't say supporters are happy with the status quo. It me more like there's nothing we can do about it. I personally am not happy but you know what I have more important things to worry about that I can do something about


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest3230 on January 10, 2019, 18:41:48 pm
If KT made 5-7 million from the Chinese saga then why would he still be here!?


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: clarkeysntfc on January 10, 2019, 20:52:01 pm
If KT made 5-7 million from the Chinese saga then why would he still be here!?

Indeed - quite an accusation from a member of the trust board.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: southofthecounty on January 10, 2019, 21:03:58 pm
If KT made 5-7 million from the Chinese saga then why would he still be here!?
Yes. In a shallow grave.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: BedsCobb on January 10, 2019, 21:58:07 pm
I'm sure if he made £7m from land and the Chinese he would've chucked in a measly several hundred grand at tarting up the east to avoid being embarrased by his total lack of action on the football front. ;D


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest3114 on January 10, 2019, 22:17:00 pm
Looks like he has recently become a director of a company
 https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/11638005/officers


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest3245 on January 10, 2019, 22:31:19 pm
Looks like he has recently become a director of a company
 https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/11638005/officers

My guess by the name is that he has invested in a business targetting the latest craze .... "Escape Rooms".  You know the one.... where you lock a group of people in a room, and they have a fixed time to work out the clues required to open the door before they burn to death.

Either that, or it's a business designed to facilitate his Escape from the Trap that is NTFC........


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest3114 on January 10, 2019, 22:42:31 pm
My guess by the name is that he has invested in a business targetting the latest craze .... "Escape Rooms".  You know the one.... where you lock a group of people in a room, and they have a fixed time to work out the clues required to open the door before they burn to death.

Either that, or it's a business designed to facilitate his Escape from the Trap that is NTFC........
Hmmmm, an interesting choice of name. At this point in time I was unable to ascertain what goods and services they provide?


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: The Hask on January 10, 2019, 23:18:13 pm
Hmmmm, an interesting choice of name. At this point in time I was unable to ascertain what goods and services they provide?

Is it the same trappd that is in Billing Aquadrome and in town centre https://trappd.com/

I have played two of the rooms - good fun


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest2677 on January 10, 2019, 23:22:03 pm
Kelvin holds the keys.
He plays a similar game at Trappd Sixfields where he holds 2000 odd hostage for an entire season.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: The Hask on January 11, 2019, 08:51:57 am
Kelvin holds the keys.
He plays a similar game at Trappd Sixfields where he holds 2000 odd hostage for an entire season.
;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: GrangeParkCobbler on January 11, 2019, 14:00:24 pm
I was a lot younger, but i'm wondering just how bad things were in the McRitchie, Stonhill and Underwood days.

Those were the days fans used to protest about the running of the club, and actually call for the head of the chairman.

Said chairman was usually removed and someone else came along!

I don't remember us being "non-league"......so league position wise things could not have been any better or worse than they are now.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: claretparrot on January 11, 2019, 15:11:25 pm
When people start to get an idea of the money he may well have made from the Chinese 'windfall' (Im lead to believe this is 5-7million quid...

KT personally made up to seven million pounds from the Chinese investment?
I find that very, very difficult to believe. It defies logic on so many levels!

Happy to be proven wrong of course. At that point, my vote would irreversibly switch to 'KT should pass the club on to any credible investor, for a zero consideration'.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: clarkeysntfc on January 11, 2019, 15:46:12 pm
TRAPPD is one of the companies which gives discounts to NTFC members.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Vintage Cobbler on January 11, 2019, 15:56:37 pm
The only mention of the amount invested by the Chinese appeared in the Mail on Sunday in an article written by an eminent football journalist/writer, Ian Herbert, who reported it was thought to be in the region of £6 million.  Whatever may be the accuracy of the figure in the Mail no money "invested" went to Ventures but Thomas announced to the world that the Chinese had acquired a 60% holding in the company.  This was followed by Bower resigning from the Board of Ventures and the Chinese appointed 2 directors. With Thomas remaining on the Board the Chinese had a 2:1 majority at board level.  The board changes were the only filings made at Companies House and appear to be deficient.  I think it can be stated with confidence that a transaction took place and it would follow from this that money changed hands.  If that is so the money did not go into Ventures in return for new shares issued to the Chinese. So, where did it go and to who?  It could only have gone to Fantastical Ltd (Bower's English corporate vehicle holding 65% of Ventures shares , Thomas (22.5%) and Bower (12.5%) personally.  

Consider this against the situation facing us at our club on and off the pitch.

 


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: claretparrot on January 11, 2019, 16:11:31 pm
The only mention of the amount invested by the Chinese appeared in the Mail on Sunday in an article written by an eminent football journalist/writer, Ian Herbert, who reported it was thought to be in the region of £6 million.  Whatever may be the accuracy of the figure in the Mail no money "invested" went to Ventures but Thomas announced to the world that the Chinese had acquired a 60% holding in the company.  This was followed by Bower resigning from the Board of Ventures and the Chinese appointed 2 directors. With Thomas remaining on the Board the Chinese had a 2:1 majority at board level.  The board changes were the only filings made at Companies House and appear to be deficient.  I think it can be stated with confidence that a transaction took place and it would follow from this that money changed hands.  If that is so the money did not go into Ventures in return for new shares issued to the Chinese. So, where did it go and to who?  It could only have gone to Fantastical Ltd (Bower's English corporate vehicle holding 65% of Ventures shares , Thomas (22.5%) and Bower (12.5%) personally.  

Consider this against the situation facing us at our club on and off the pitch.

 

Logical but does rely on something of a leap ('money changed hands').

It could just as easily be that money was promised and, regardless of KT and co.'s intentions for that money, it never materialised. Or it could be that the investment (or a portion of it) was returned when the agreement broke down. I find it difficult to believe that the Chinese investors sunk millions of pounds (which has since disappeared into KT and DB's pockets) and then walked away, taking none of it with them.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: GrangeParkCobbler on January 11, 2019, 16:12:51 pm
The only mention of the amount invested by the Chinese appeared in the Mail on Sunday in an article written by an eminent football journalist/writer, Ian Herbert, who reported it was thought to be in the region of £6 million.  Whatever may be the accuracy of the figure in the Mail no money "invested" went to Ventures but Thomas announced to the world that the Chinese had acquired a 60% holding in the company.  This was followed by Bower resigning from the Board of Ventures and the Chinese appointed 2 directors. With Thomas remaining on the Board the Chinese had a 2:1 majority at board level.  The board changes were the only filings made at Companies House and appear to be deficient.  I think it can be stated with confidence that a transaction took place and it would follow from this that money changed hands.  If that is so the money did not go into Ventures in return for new shares issued to the Chinese. So, where did it go and to who?  It could only have gone to Fantastical Ltd (Bower's English corporate vehicle holding 65% of Ventures shares , Thomas (22.5%) and Bower (12.5%) personally.  

Consider this against the situation facing us at our club on and off the pitch.

 

The murky world of shell companies and holding companies!

Ventures, Fantastical, Belle De Jour, County Developments (Northampton) Ltd.....not one mention of Northampton Town Football Club.

It was also stated that Kelvin and David Ďboughtí the 60% shareholding back....again implying that money changed hands. Try and find a sign of it in any accounts though!


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest2090 on January 11, 2019, 16:13:08 pm
The only mention of the amount invested by the Chinese appeared in the Mail on Sunday in an article written by an eminent football journalist/writer, Ian Herbert, who reported it was thought to be in the region of £6 million.  Whatever may be the accuracy of the figure in the Mail no money "invested" went to Ventures but Thomas announced to the world that the Chinese had acquired a 60% holding in the company.  This was followed by Bower resigning from the Board of Ventures and the Chinese appointed 2 directors. With Thomas remaining on the Board the Chinese had a 2:1 majority at board level.  The board changes were the only filings made at Companies House and appear to be deficient.  I think it can be stated with confidence that a transaction took place and it would follow from this that money changed hands.  If that is so the money did not go into Ventures in return for new shares issued to the Chinese. So, where did it go and to who?  It could only have gone to Fantastical Ltd (Bower's English corporate vehicle holding 65% of Ventures shares , Thomas (22.5%) and Bower (12.5%) personally.  

Consider this against the situation facing us at our club on and off the pitch.

 

According to the BBC report at the time, the deal went sour due to Chinese investment restrictions and the Chinese were forced to sell back their share holding.  

In order for KT to make a clear profit as suggested, he first had to sell a % of the business for an extortionate amount and secondly buy it back less than a year later for peanuts.  Neither of which seem plausible.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: claretparrot on January 11, 2019, 16:18:46 pm
In order for KT to make a clear profit as suggested, he first had to sell a % of the business for an extortionate amount and secondly buy it back less than a year later for peanuts.  Neither of which seem plausible.

This is a much more succinct version of what I'm trying to get at!


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Vintage Cobbler on January 11, 2019, 16:26:47 pm
Don't lose sight of the fact that Bower (90% owner now) is a highly experienced lawyer and Thomas, his front man, is not naive.  They did not come down with the last shower.  Consider how they completely out manoeuvred the Council on the CDNL land.  No one, I suggest, gives up control of the parent company of an EFL club on a promise of money. It doesn't happen and not with seasoned operators like our owners. How much money moved only those directly involved know but we have to apply a degree of logic to what was announced and what is in the public domain. 



Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: claretparrot on January 11, 2019, 16:53:17 pm
Don't lose sight of the fact that Bower (90% owner now) is a highly experienced lawyer and Thomas, his front man, is not naive.  They did not come down with the last shower.  Consider how they completely out manoeuvred the Council on the CDNL land.  No one, I suggest, gives up control of the parent company of an EFL club on a promise of money. It doesn't happen and not with seasoned operators like our owners. How much money moved only those directly involved know but we have to apply a degree of logic to what was announced and what is in the public domain. 



I see your point, but to suggest that the Chinese investors walked away £7m down with no noise beyond a point-scoring public statement doesn't seem that logical to me.

Difficult to argue on the payment terms with no intimate knowledge of this or any other football club purchase process, but it would not be unusual in the wider business world for at least part of the consideration to be paid over time. That's what contracts are for and, as you say, Bower is a highly experienced lawyer.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Vintage Cobbler on January 11, 2019, 17:03:55 pm
I never said how much changed hands because I have no idea.  What i said was that the Mail on Sunday reported an investment in the region of £6 million.  As to whether that amount was paid I haven't a clue but applying common sense and a bit of business sense 50% is not improbable.  Of course, all would be clarified if our owners told us but like almost everything concerning our present ownership I give that about as much chance as a heatwave in Northampton this weekend.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: GrangeParkCobbler on January 11, 2019, 17:05:16 pm
Considering 5USports "bought" their 60% stake in the club at the end of June, and then we went and brought in no fewer than 14 permanent signings before it was announced that KT had "bought" the shares back, isn't it fair to assume that some sort of money came into the club?

Unless the suggestion again is that these astute businessmen invested what they did in the squad and the management changes "on a promise"

Those same signings, on the bloated wages, are what is costing us dearly now.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: claretparrot on January 11, 2019, 17:07:03 pm
I never said how much changed hands because I have no idea.  What i said was that the Mail on Sunday reported an investment in the region of £6 million.  As to whether that amount was paid I haven't a clue but applying common sense and a bit of business sense 50% is not improbable.  Of course, all would be clarified if our owners told us but like almost everything concerning our present ownership I give that about as much chance as a heatwave in Northampton this weekend.

Why on earth should they reveal the amounts involved or the payment terms? Applying a bit of business sense, I'd go as far as to say that wouldn't be especially well advised.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Vintage Cobbler on January 11, 2019, 17:15:01 pm
Because some transparency would give us mere supporters a degree of trust and confidence in our owners. But that is not their purpose and if you are unable to put 2 & 2 together that is a matter for you.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: claretparrot on January 11, 2019, 17:16:39 pm
Because some transparency would give us mere supporters a degree of trust and confidence in our owners. But that is not their purpose and if you are unable to put 2 & 2 together that is a matter for you.

I am unable to put 2 & 2 together, so could you help me out with what you're getting at?


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Vintage Cobbler on January 11, 2019, 17:17:48 pm
It's all set out clearly enough. I leave it to you.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Deepcut Cobbler on January 11, 2019, 18:24:18 pm
If they paid £6m for £60% does that mean that at the time the club was valued at £10m?


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Vintage Cobbler on January 11, 2019, 18:31:51 pm
No, Ventures' holding in NTFC is just under 84% due to historical shares held elsewhere if that was the basis of valuation.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest2090 on January 11, 2019, 18:36:57 pm
If KT managed to profit by circa £5-7m in the space of less than a year by selling a stake in the club and then buying it back then he is a genius. 


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: BedsCobb on January 11, 2019, 18:45:04 pm
If KT managed to profit by circa £5-7m in the space of less than a year by selling a stake in the club and then buying it back then he is a genius. 
Did they try to get the Chinese to finish the east stand as part of the 60% shares in what ever it was they paid into?
That would've been a good move 🤣


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Deepcut Cobbler on January 11, 2019, 18:58:05 pm
No, Ventures' holding in NTFC is just under 84% due to historical shares held elsewhere if that was the basis of valuation.

So more than £10m then.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest2090 on January 11, 2019, 19:47:30 pm
So more than £10m then.

I canít believe for one second that the Chinese had 10m to invest in the cobblers.  Bit like the Ďwe lost 300kí on the VV purchase/sale. Garbage.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Boring Bar Steward on January 11, 2019, 20:00:00 pm
Mr Thomas please tell us your future plans for NTFC!

FOUR players (including our 2 most skillful) gone, ONE in!
NO development of the East Stand!
NTFC now control less land?
A cut in the playing budget this year!
You have been unable to sell the club!

What future can you provide?


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Manwork04 on January 11, 2019, 22:02:54 pm
Mr Thomas please tell us your future plans for NTFC!

FOUR players (including our 2 most skillful) gone, ONE in!
NO development of the East Stand!
NTFC now control less land?
A cut in the playing budget this year!
You have been unable to sell the club!

What future can you provide?
He will tell us nothing, under promise and over deliver  :P


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: ceebee2 on January 11, 2019, 22:11:28 pm
If they paid £6m for £60% does that mean that at the time the club was valued at £10m?
Blimey have you just stumbled on the money that the Council loaned Cardozza??? Best you let the Police know lad!  ;D


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: barton cobbler on January 11, 2019, 22:28:49 pm
What benefit was there for NTFC Ventures to go under the "umbrella" of Belle De Jour, when both companies have the same owners. Wouldn't be anything to do with BDJ being based in the British Virgin Islands so no vision of accounts are available ? Just a thought !


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: BedsCobb on January 11, 2019, 22:49:30 pm
Mr Thomas please tell us your future plans for NTFC!

FOUR players (including our 2 most skillful) gone, ONE in!
NO development of the East Stand!
NTFC now control less land?
A cut in the playing budget this year!
You have been unable to sell the club!

What future can you provide?
I doubt anyone actully cares anymore  what he is isnt planning to do any more.
So please don't  delay any exit strategy he may have.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest3230 on January 11, 2019, 22:52:36 pm
What benefit was there for NTFC Ventures to go under the "umbrella" of Belle De Jour, when both companies have the same owners. Wouldn't be anything to do with BDJ being based in the British Virgin Islands so no vision of accounts are available ? Just a thought !

Seen a few comments from people related to the Trust suggesting something untoward is going on.

Time to let the rest of us know.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: BedsCobb on January 11, 2019, 23:01:05 pm
Seen a few comments from people related to the Trust suggesting something untoward is going on.

Time to let the rest of us know.
I also noticed a more frosty sea change in some posts.
Go on you trust.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: GrangeParkCobbler on January 11, 2019, 23:06:56 pm
I also noticed a more frosty sea change in some posts.
Go on you trust.

The 100k figure apparently came out of the Trust meeting the other night.......thats cuts required of £100k a month.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest3230 on January 11, 2019, 23:08:15 pm
I also noticed a more frosty sea change in some posts.
Go on you trust.

If there is a genuine concern then let us all know and we can do something.

If the Trust has genuine concerns and insight then stand up and let us all help.

You'd also see the poll result on this thread dramatically change.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Another Pedj on January 11, 2019, 23:26:39 pm
The 100k figure apparently came out of the Trust meeting the other night.......thats cuts required of £100k a month.

That's my understanding. Any bidders will have to demonstrate the ability to fund the club for approx £4 million that should see them through to the end of next season..


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: wazzacobbler on January 11, 2019, 23:34:51 pm
Posters on here are very vocal about KT not being open and honest enough with the fans and yet some of those same posters won't be open and honest either .It's hypocritical. If the Trust know something then it's time to tell the fan base, many of which are paid up members.

You tell us that KT is hiding things from us and you allude to knowing what that is but won't tell anybody outside of the "inner circle" of the Trust board.

You tell us not to trust KT but how can we trust the Trust when they're doing exactly what they accuse KT of doing?

If the Trust want the fan base to get behind them, they need to give the fans a reason to trust them.

Time to tell us what you know.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: GrangeParkCobbler on January 11, 2019, 23:36:02 pm
That's my understanding. Any bidders will have to demonstrate the ability to fund the club for approx £4 million that should see them through to the end of next season..

So when Kelvin said a few months ago that the club was on a sound financial footing he was telling the truth yeah? But now we have to shave 100k off the outgoings per month to break even?

Only one of those statements can be true!


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: GrangeParkCobbler on January 11, 2019, 23:42:23 pm
I'll be honest enough to tell you what someone who purported to be at the Trust meeting this week told me.....

We have to make immediate savings of £100,000 per month.......explains the early transfer window sales of Crooks and Van Veen, the release of Kasim and the loan of Waters.

The local consortium fronted by Brian Binley, and possibly containing David Jackson have been priced out of a deal.

There will soon be an announcement by the Trust about a public fans forum to discuss the possibility of taking the first steps towards fans becoming involved in the running of the club.


Over to the Trust to confirm or deny my claims.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest3230 on January 11, 2019, 23:59:53 pm
I'll be honest enough to tell you what someone who purported to be at the Trust meeting this week told me.....

We have to make immediate savings of £100,000 per month.......explains the early transfer window sales of Crooks and Van Veen, the release of Kasim and the loan of Waters.

The local consortium fronted by Brian Binley, and possibly containing David Jackson have been priced out of a deal.

There will soon be an announcement by the Trust about a public fans forum to discuss the possibility of taking the first steps towards fans becoming involved in the running of the club.


Over to the Trust to confirm or deny my claims.

Thanks GPC.

None of that is a surprise, everyone knew we had to cut the budget.

So there must be other stuff going on for the Trust to be saying stuff.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Lukey on January 12, 2019, 03:59:37 am
IMO the longer the chairman keeps it the more money he loses on it and will end up having to sell it cheap or pop it in to administration.

A guess we'll see what happens but one thing for sure is if we were taken over tomorrow we will be in the same position again in 6 months, we're just an unlucky club, owners come in with little interest or the ones with interest take bad advice and then lose interest and bugger off when they get in too deep.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest2090 on January 12, 2019, 08:19:40 am
Seen a few comments from people related to the Trust suggesting something untoward is going on.

Time to let the rest of us know.

it is pure speculation, they have even said themselves that there is no paper trail.  they may be adding 2+2 and getting 4, they may be miles off.  But surely these are the types of things that the trust should be putting in the public domain in a controlled and sensible way instead snippets on here.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: BedsCobb on January 12, 2019, 09:36:42 am
IMO the longer the chairman keeps it the more money he loses on it and will end up having to sell it cheap or pop it in to administration.

A guess we'll see what happens but one thing for sure is if we were taken over tomorrow we will be in the same position again in 6 months, we're just an unlucky club, owners come in with little interest or the ones with interest take bad advice and then lose interest and bugger off when they get in too deep.
If we were taken over tomorrow, plans would be put in place immediately to finish off the East stand and further plans for future extensions of the South stand in order to compete in league 1 football.
Our clubs supporters, general public and local buisneses  would rally behind these initiatives to make them a success.
Thomas in his quest for land deals played down and ignored the very thing this club has been crying out for and that is an improvement into its infrastructure.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Teachers Pet on January 12, 2019, 09:50:45 am
If we were taken over tomorrow, plans would be put in place immediately to finish off the East stand and further plans for future extensions of the South stand in order to compete in league 1 football.
Our clubs supporters, general public and local buisneses  would rally behind these initiatives to make them a success.
Thomas in his quest for land deals played down and ignored the very thing this club has been crying out for and that is an improvement into its infrastructure.


Please tell me who these wonderful people are that would do all that you mention above?

As for the general public, you are having a laugh.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Vintage Cobbler on January 12, 2019, 09:52:32 am
What benefit was there for NTFC Ventures to go under the "umbrella" of Belle De Jour, when both companies have the same owners. Wouldn't be anything to do with BDJ being based in the British Virgin Islands so no vision of accounts are available ? Just a thought !

No benefit whatsoever for NTFC.  The principal reason for having a BVI company is secrecy and the place being a tax haven there is no corporation tax.  So, what goes on in BDJ will be hidden.  The present ownership structure is the complete opposite of transparency and it begs the question for the underlying reasons.  Again, 2 + 2 = ??????


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: The Rauldinho on January 12, 2019, 10:12:03 am
I've asked the Trust on Twitter if there is any truth in the rumours about the 5USport money and the £100k saving per month needed.

Is there a better way to contact them? I've tried e-mail before and heard nothing back.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Vintage Cobbler on January 12, 2019, 10:20:13 am
Whilst you are at it why not ask the man himself, KT? After all, he has the the best interests of the club at heart and has always been open and transparent in his dealings with supporters. Then again..........................


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: The Rauldinho on January 12, 2019, 10:27:30 am
Whilst you are at it why not ask the man himself, KT? After all, he has the the best interests of the club at heart and has always been open and transparent in his dealings with supporters. Then again..........................


Mainly because it is Trust members or those that have heard from Trust members that these rumours have originated from.


If they know something or are worried about things then the whole supporter base should be told, not just a few rants on here or telling their friends.


I've added KT to the tweet also, if it makes you feel better?


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest3230 on January 12, 2019, 10:58:20 am

Mainly because it is Trust members or those that have heard from Trust members that these rumours have originated from.


If they know something or are worried about things then the whole supporter base should be told, not just a few rants on here or telling their friends.


I've added KT to the tweet also, if it makes you feel better?

Agreed.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Ron Obvious on January 12, 2019, 10:59:43 am
I'll be honest enough to tell you what someone who purported to be at the Trust meeting this week told me.....

We have to make immediate savings of £100,000 per month.......explains the early transfer window sales of Crooks and Van Veen, the release of Kasim and the loan of Waters.

The local consortium fronted by Brian Binley, and possibly containing David Jackson have been priced out of a deal.

There will soon be an announcement by the Trust about a public fans forum to discuss the possibility of taking the first steps towards fans becoming involved in the running of the club.


Over to the Trust to confirm or deny my claims.

Is this the same Brian Binley who wanted to put a massive toxic incinerator on the edge of Westbridge / St James?

Thanks for sharing GPC.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: BedsCobb on January 12, 2019, 11:32:07 am
Please tell me who these wonderful people are that would do all that you mention above?

As for the general public, you are having a laugh.
Thomas has said he had offers but probably didn't offer him the vast sums hes looking for..These people.
Also just look at the saints for what you can expect should the town and its football club work together.
Steady well thought out plan's, working closely with our potential catchment that shows good progress is preferable to instant riches from a sugar daddy when trying to build up the clubs support base.
This is why we would be better off with a local consortium/ supporters group.



Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: GrangeParkCobbler on January 12, 2019, 11:43:00 am
I am amazed......the poll has turned on its head...and more people now want KT to stay than to go!!

What can I say?


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: random on January 12, 2019, 11:49:15 am
Well said Beds

You can't get KT to give you a straight answer about anything let alone offshore money from China via Dubai / BVI etc so I doubt very much you will ever get an answer about who owns what, how much money, where the money come from etc

Posters saying that the Chinese would not give £6m and walk away, well I would not be surprised if that money was 'dirty' and is not worth anywhere near the same as clean money. The FACT (sorry but it is) that KT / Bower etc hold most of the companies in offshore businesses tells you all you need to know, especially when you add in some of their broken promises and dubious (at best) practices of screwing over fans and NBC council

Again KT is the front man so he get most of the praise / stick, my first thought was if he had got £6m then why not walk away, but thinking about it I bet he never saw much of that money, afterall Bower / Chinese / Dubai are the money men, KT is a glorified lacky running around for all these 'rich' folk, fronting as a football man.

I am glad we are losing games and losing our players as more fans will finally realise that THEY has no interest in our club other than money and with foundations built on sand things can quickly crumbling, the tide is coming in, time to man the life boats. If we have to go backwards to go forwards then so be it.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Ron Obvious on January 12, 2019, 12:10:16 pm

This is why we would be better off with a local consortium/ supporters group.



So you are in favor Brian Binley to run our club? Yes or no will be sufficient.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: GrangeParkCobbler on January 12, 2019, 12:16:14 pm
So you are in favor Brian Binley to run our club? Yes or no will be sufficient.

Where did anyone say Binley would be running the club?

I saw him as the local guy who seemed to be facilitating the talks. He was the one I saw telling KT what a good deal was on the table at the MK game earlier in the season.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Ron Obvious on January 12, 2019, 12:20:34 pm
Where did anyone say Binley would be running the club?

I saw him as the local guy who seemed to be facilitating the talks. He was the one I saw telling KT what a good deal was on the table at the MK game earlier in the season.

To be honest it was the bit where you said "The local consortium fronted by Brian Binley" that gave me the notion.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: GrangeParkCobbler on January 12, 2019, 12:24:41 pm
To be honest it was the bit where you said "The local consortium fronted by Brian Binley" that gave me the notion.

Fair comment.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Ron Obvious on January 12, 2019, 12:26:15 pm
Fair comment.

Thank you.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: everbrite on January 12, 2019, 14:23:27 pm
I am amazed......the poll has turned on its head...and more people now want KT to stay than to go!!

What can I say?

Why are you surprised?


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: everbrite on January 12, 2019, 14:31:50 pm
Dear Random  you say,

I am glad we are losing games and losing our players as more fans will finally realise that THEY has no interest in our club other than money and with foundations built on sand things can quickly crumbling, the tide is coming in, time to man the life boats. If we have to go backwards to go forwards then so be it.


This above will not endear you to many on here!


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: GrangeParkCobbler on January 12, 2019, 15:01:32 pm
Why are you surprised?

Because it turned around after the players started getting sold!

Not surprised that we seem to have so many sheep, blindly believing that everything will come good eventually, or still praising Kelvin for saving the club, or even accepting the fact that we have been in the bottom two divisions for most of our history, therefore they are happy with whatever!

The question was skewed anyway.....if it had been "Do you think the chairman is doing a good job?" I would have expected a different result. People have admitted that they voted for him to stay because they didn't know what the other option was.....if he went, who would be chairman. Better the devil you know?


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: random on January 12, 2019, 19:16:28 pm
Hi Evers, I am not popular on here anyway  ;D

Great result for the team today, I am pretty sure we will stay up, which we certainly need to do

However there is so so much wrong with KT ownership, my frustration that fans like yourself can't see it and seem happy to wallow in mediocrity means that someone even more drastic to happen for some to wake-up

I though you (and many others) might at least be more sceptical after DC


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: tcobb on January 12, 2019, 21:35:29 pm
Your problem Random is you think your way is the only way. You alienate  yourself with your attitude. Alot of people agree that KT is not doing a good job but you see your idea as being the only one that is worth considering. Although is seems at the moment more people want KT to stay than leave.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest3114 on January 12, 2019, 22:25:00 pm
I think the problem with the revolutionists is that anyone who criticises their business plan is deemed to be either pro KT or pro the status quo of languishing at the bottom of the football league. Speaking for myself I am vehemently neither of those, and when someone comes up with a workable plan I for one will be right behind it. The issue I have is that the main protagonists ideas are so flawed they turn sensible people off . To be honest in the impossible event their plans were instigated, the club would hurtle into oblivion within 6 months. Itís not just that the figures they pull out of their @rse are pure comedy gold. I am afraid that for me they are nothing more than another (all be it comparatively small) obsticle to overcome for change at the club. The net result of all months of procrastination is that if they are typical of the majority, they are just another reason that people doubt a fan run club is even viable. For what itís worth my advice would be that if change is really the aim of some, they should take caution in their tone and restrict their commentary to sensible observation. I doubt they will though as in my opinion the future of the club comes a poor second to being proved right having embarrassed themselves in the eye of many for so long with their nonsense attempts at facts, figures and business plans.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: BedsCobb on January 13, 2019, 06:09:09 am
I think the problem with the revolutionists is that anyone who criticises their business plan is deemed to be either pro KT or pro the status quo of languishing at the bottom of the football league. Speaking for myself I am vehemently neither of those, and when someone comes up with a workable plan I for one will be right behind it. The issue I have is that the main protagonists ideas are so flawed they turn sensible people off . To be honest in the impossible event their plans were instigated, the club would hurtle into oblivion within 6 months. Itís not just that the figures they pull out of their @rse are pure comedy gold. I am afraid that for me they are nothing more than another (all be it comparatively small) obsticle to overcome for change at the club. The net result of all months of procrastination is that if they are typical of the majority, they are just another reason that people doubt a fan run club is even viable. For what itís worth my advice would be that if change is really the aim of some, they should take caution in their tone and restrict their commentary to sensible observation. I doubt they will though as in my opinion the future of the club comes a poor second to being proved right having embarrassed themselves in the eye of many for so long with their nonsense attempts at facts, figures and business plans.
What are you on about? All I can read on hear is people advocating we strive to maximise our potential by building up every aspect of the club, be it attendances, corperate revenues, matchday food and beverages, advertising etc, leading to improved player budgets,  improving by another 50% over the next several years, will allow us to challenge in the division above..

How can you not want that?


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest3114 on January 13, 2019, 07:20:48 am
What are you on about? All I can read on hear is people advocating we strive to maximise our potential by building up every aspect of the club, be it attendances, corperate revenues, matchday food and beverages, advertising etc, leading to improved player budgets,  improving by another 50% over the next several years, will allow us to challenge in the division above..

How can you not want that?

Here we go again, define exactly how much you consider the 50% figure you have just pulled out of your @rse to be? Given that your latest business plan apparently required no funding and was to be fulfilled entirely on profit I think itís a fair question? To be honest Beds if the possibility arose, I would be keen to get involved in true fan ownership from a share purchase perspective. Incidentally if the opportunity arose will you be getting involved financially, or is this purely a theoretical keyboard exercise from your perspective? Last time I asked this question, you came up with the no capital plan so I feel another tangent coming on?


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: SadOldGit on January 13, 2019, 07:37:21 am
BedsCobb pursues his view with consistency and passion, his optimism and positivity for the next owners to be people who care for the club surely cannot be denied. The last 2 owners have simply had their eye on a land grab and have only had an interest in the football side of things if it added value. Let's face it, there is very little financial gain to be had from a fourth division football club. Instead of the constant negativity and cynicism applied by others, maybe they should get together with BedsCobb and others with his passion to use their much-boasted business prowess to get the financials right instead of taking delight in shooting him down.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: BedsCobb on January 13, 2019, 08:06:10 am
Here we go again, define exactly how much you consider the 50% figure you have just pulled out of your @rse to be? Given that your latest business plan apparently required no funding and was to be fulfilled entirely on profit I think itís a fair question? To be honest Beds if the possibility arose, I would be keen to get involved in true fan ownership from a share purchase perspective. Incidentally if the opportunity arose will you be getting involved financially, or is this purely a theoretical keyboard exercise from your perspective? Last time I asked this question, you came up with the no capital plan so I feel another tangent coming on?
Northampton has a great central, easy to get location, the football club  has an untapped catchment of 300,000 living within  10 miles of stadium.
Currently less than 2% of the potential catchment currently turn up to watch, I think the average for British towns and cities is nearer 5% so if we were to increase our support base by a measly 1 or 2% watching competitive  league 1 football equates to 8 to 10,000 average gates.
Yes it would require many long term corporate boxes being sold in advance to local buisneses to finance the finishing of the east stand and the construction of a 3000 bank of terracing built up behind the South stand seats to give the ground the extra capacity it needs and a more professional look to enhance a big game atmosphere the  fans want to see at games or get involved with.
Selling 3 year fixed priced transferable season tickets to fans and buisneses would help fund the ground expansion   add a number of other well known fund raising schemes that worked well at other clubs, and we are well on our way.
For our club to advance this must happen, that's why the next people to take over at the club need to want our club to grow and to escape the previous 20 years of stagnation.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: 1971cobbler on January 13, 2019, 08:43:31 am
BedsCobb pursues his view with consistency and passion, his optimism and positivity for the next owners to be people who care for the club surely cannot be denied. The last 2 owners have simply had their eye on a land grab and have only had an interest in the football side of things if it added value. Let's face it, there is very little financial gain to be had from a fourth division football club. Instead of the constant negativity and cynicism applied by others, maybe they should get together with BedsCobb and others with his passion to use their much-boasted business prowess to get the financials right instead of taking delight in shooting him down.

Spot on. Whilst I agree that there needs to be more substance behind Beds thoughts, as Melbourne says, it is at least worth exploring.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: meccanostand on January 13, 2019, 09:16:59 am
Spot on. Whilst I agree that there needs to be more substance behind Beds thoughts, as Melbourne says, it is at least worth exploring.

Let me insert a bit of calm here. Beds has plenty of good ideas which is a great thing, although to my knowledge he hasn't presented them anywhere else other than to Kelvin privately and on here.

This messageboard is not representative of the success or otherwise of the various ownership models in existence around the country and beyond.

In the next few days details of a professional, strategic discussion of the ownership and vision of the football club via the supporters' trust will be forthcoming. Obviously fans need to be treated with the requisite respect and furnished with the information to make educated appraisals of this situation.

A lot of the infighting is unnecessary and there is no need to hound Kelvin Thomas. A lot of the issues at the club pre-date him.

 This should put Melbourne's and other minds at rest. Have a good weekend and enjoy the 3 points!






 


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest2090 on January 13, 2019, 09:56:38 am


A lot of the infighting is unnecessary and there is no need to hound Kelvin Thomas. A lot of the issues at the club pre-date him.
 

 


absolutely, but if people (members of the trust board) are to sprinkle on this message board rumours of KT making £5-7m in a few months via the football club but for no benefit of it, what are the supporters to think?


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: The Rauldinho on January 13, 2019, 10:12:06 am
absolutely, but if people (members of the trust board) are to sprinkle on this message board rumours of KT making £5-7m in a few months via the football club but for no benefit of it, what are the supporters to think?

And still no official response from the Trust on these rumours either.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: meccanostand on January 13, 2019, 10:39:53 am
It should never be the trust's role to deal with rumour. Rumours will whirl unfortunately in the absence of public information from the club and press scrutiny.

Transparency within the club and around it is something I'm keen to address.

A six million fee was referenced by the Mail at the time. If the club had issue with it they had the requisite channels to issue a retraction of the story.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: wazzacobbler on January 13, 2019, 10:56:40 am
It's members of the Trust's board that have stated these runours!


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest2090 on January 13, 2019, 11:05:00 am
It should never be the trust's role to deal with rumour. Rumours will whirl unfortunately in the absence of public information from the club and press scrutiny.

Transparency within the club and around it is something I'm keen to address.

A six million fee was referenced by the Mail at the time. If the club had issue with it they had the requisite channels to issue a retraction of the story.


come on this is spin, the mail indicated the chinese paid £6m for the shareholding.  it is only this message board, from members of the trust board that have stated KT made £5-7m personally out of the sale and re purchase of NTFC shares.  member of the trust board started the rumour and even stated they had no evidence to support it.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: meccanostand on January 13, 2019, 11:05:31 am
It's members of the Trust's board that have stated these runours!

Again the £6 million figure was referenced in a Daily Mail piece at the time by respected journalist Ian Herbert. The Club had recourse to demand a retraction of the story and an apology should it be false.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4742848/Northampton-Town-new-Chinese-investment.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4742848/Northampton-Town-new-Chinese-investment.html)


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest2090 on January 13, 2019, 11:09:39 am
Again the £6 million figure was referenced in a Daily Mail piece at the time by respected journalist Ian Herbert. The Club had recourse to demand a retraction of the story and an apology should it be false.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4742848/Northampton-Town-new-Chinese-investment.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4742848/Northampton-Town-new-Chinese-investment.html)

you're missing the point.  its not about the purchase.  its the profit from the sale and purchase and the personal profit that kt apparently made out of it.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Manwork04 on January 13, 2019, 11:10:51 am
The fact of the matter is a local consortium of businessmen with a 75% shareholding and a fan owned 25% would have the football club as its priority, not land, not stashing millions in off shore tax havens but putting money into the infrastructure and playing side as and when the funds become avalible.
There are lots of companies out there that will come up with a business plan for us, Delloitte, PwC, E&Y etc.
I would be willing to invest into the fans part but to make this work we are talking 1000's per supporter.
What I do know is getting rid of the incumbents must be a priority.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Manwork04 on January 13, 2019, 11:12:26 am
you're missing the point.  its not about the purchase.  its the profit from the sale and purchase and the personal profit that kt apparently made out of it.
If your so sure it's false prove otherwise.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Carlo Corazzins Corduroy on January 13, 2019, 11:40:18 am
Stupid question but - does Kelvin Thomas or any of his backers actually lose any of their personal wealth if the club fails to breakeven? Or is the debt just leveraged back against the club for whoever is next to take over? Would the directors draw a salary in the meantime?

My understanding is the only initial outlay is the purchase of the club. (which I assume was very minimal given Cardoza's legal state)


Honestly - I have no idea why anyone would risk their own wealth to try and make a profit out of a football club. Without TV money barely any seem to turn a profit, and if do it's almost instantly swallowed up as re-investment. 


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: DrillingCobbler on January 13, 2019, 13:37:43 pm
come on this is spin, the mail indicated the chinese paid £6m for the shareholding.  it is only this message board, from members of the trust board that have stated KT made £5-7m personally out of the sale and re purchase of NTFC shares.  member of the trust board started the rumour and even stated they had no evidence to support it.

I assume you are referring to me, mate.

My posts on here are representative of me and me only, not the Trust. All I can say on the matter is I have a very reliable source, but even he is 85% sure and like I said, it cannot be proved. So to take it to the next step, would be entering very dangerous territory. The transactions are not traceable, at least via the 'tools' any of us can use. So its not like it was under DC when it was easy to prove that dodgy dealings were happening. One of my posts relating to the matter was for people to 'keep an open mind'.

The Trust have another board meeting next Thursday to discuss our short term strategy (amongst other things), we are also exploring fan ownership models as has been mentioned. At this point in time there is not a lot to add.

In summary; just because trust board members post things that are maybe deemed as being sensitive, it doesn't mean that as a Trust we can go down that route. Rumours circulate all over the place. I am also happy to say that I know for a FACT that several meetings occurred in the run up to Christmas between KT and a wealthy local business man, who appears to be very reputable. Im not saying who he is, and wont respond to PM's on the matter; again, that is me, NOT THE TRUST, taking that stance. What the Trust need to do (in my opinion) and I will be banging that particular drum, is to start ramping up the pressure on KT to be more transparent. Whether we do that or not and to what level in the short term, is down to the board as a whole. Personally, I think we should be going all out attack and thats based on 3 years 3 months of zero investment on infrastructure, absolutely no publicised 'plan of action', no apparent short term business strategy let alone mid-long term one, no public clarification as to what is and what isn't up for sale (club, leases/land etc), accounts/businesses set up in 'dream locations'. I could go on. Essentially I am not one bit happy with the running of the football club at this moment in time.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Vintage Cobbler on January 13, 2019, 15:32:49 pm
Personally, I think we should be going all out attack and thats based on 3 years 3 months of zero investment on infrastructure, absolutely no publicised 'plan of action', no apparent short term business strategy let alone mid-long term one, no public clarification as to what is and what isn't up for sale (club, leases/land etc), accounts/businesses set up in 'dream locations'. I could go on. Essentially I am not one bit happy with the running of the football club at this moment in time.

Neatly put by Drilling and sums up where I am at with the present owners and have been for some time.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Manwork04 on January 13, 2019, 15:35:49 pm
Personally, I think we should be going all out attack and thats based on 3 years 3 months of zero investment on infrastructure, absolutely no publicised 'plan of action', no apparent short term business strategy let alone mid-long term one, no public clarification as to what is and what isn't up for sale (club, leases/land etc), accounts/businesses set up in 'dream locations'. I could go on. Essentially I am not one bit happy with the running of the football club at this moment in time.

Neatly put by Drilling and sums up where I am at with the present owners and have been for some time.
Same goes for me, the current owners are well passed their sell by date.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: CobblerForever on January 13, 2019, 16:17:13 pm
Stupid question but - does Kelvin Thomas or any of his backers actually lose any of their personal wealth if the club fails to breakeven? Or is the debt just leveraged back against the club for whoever is next to take over? Would the directors draw a salary in the meantime?

My understanding is the only initial outlay is the purchase of the club. (which I assume was very minimal given Cardoza's legal state)


Honestly - I have no idea why anyone would risk their own wealth to try and make a profit out of a football club. Without TV money barely any seem to turn a profit, and if do it's almost instantly swallowed up as re-investment. 

The Debt would be up for dealing with in the sale agreement.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Another Pedj on January 13, 2019, 16:28:28 pm
I assume you are referring to me, mate.

My posts on here are representative of me and me only, not the Trust. All I can say on the matter is I have a very reliable source, but even he is 85% sure and like I said, it cannot be proved. So to take it to the next step, would be entering very dangerous territory. The transactions are not traceable, at least via the 'tools' any of us can use. So its not like it was under DC when it was easy to prove that dodgy dealings were happening. One of my posts relating to the matter was for people to 'keep an open mind'.

The Trust have another board meeting next Thursday to discuss our short term strategy (amongst other things), we are also exploring fan ownership models as has been mentioned. At this point in time there is not a lot to add.

Interesting. The transactions should be easily traceable through the returns on Northampton town foot club or ventures.

Are you insinuating Money Laundering?

In summary; just because trust board members post things that are maybe deemed as being sensitive, it doesn't mean that as a Trust we can go down that route. Rumours circulate all over the place. I am also happy to say that I know for a FACT that several meetings occurred in the run up to Christmas between KT and a wealthy local business man, who appears to be very reputable. Im not saying who he is, and wont respond to PM's on the matter; again, that is me, NOT THE TRUST, taking that stance. What the Trust need to do (in my opinion) and I will be banging that particular drum, is to start ramping up the pressure on KT to be more transparent. Whether we do that or not and to what level in the short term, is down to the board as a whole. Personally, I think we should be going all out attack and thats based on 3 years 3 months of zero investment on infrastructure, absolutely no publicised 'plan of action', no apparent short term business strategy let alone mid-long term one, no public clarification as to what is and what isn't up for sale (club, leases/land etc), accounts/businesses set up in 'dream locations'. I could go on. Essentially I am not one bit happy with the running of the football club at this moment in time.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: guest3114 on January 13, 2019, 16:33:09 pm
The fact of the matter is a local consortium of businessmen with a 75% shareholding and a fan owned 25% would have the football club as its priority, not land, not stashing millions in off shore tax havens but putting money into the infrastructure and playing side as and when the funds become avalible.
There are lots of companies out there that will come up with a business plan for us, Delloitte, PwC, E&Y etc.
I would be willing to invest into the fans part but to make this work we are talking 1000's per supporter.
What I do know is getting rid of the incumbents must be a priority.
Just an observation Manny, but what you are proposing here is that fans put in thousands per supporter whilst a consortium of business people hold the 75% majority control. In this scenario what would stop the consortium selling out to another Cardoza or Thomas if things get tough or unpalatable? If this is going to be investigated in my opinion the ownership must be set up along the lines of at least 55% fan owned and capped at minimum of 0.1% per supporter. The other 45% should be split amongst individual shares from corporate bodies and the like. That would dictate that a considerable number of supporters would need to combine with the total corporate share to sell the club back to square one. If this is going to be properly considered then a complete break from past structures that protects the club from reverting to this position ever again has to be the aim. Otherwise what is the point? A proposal along those lines would receive enthusiastic support from me including personal investment. Assuming it gets this far, any compromise on majority fan ownership with a low level cap on shareholding and I for one wonít be interested.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: SteveRiches on January 13, 2019, 23:58:01 pm
And still no official response from the Trust on these rumours either.
Why should the Trust waste time and energy on rumours?


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: sammo4 on January 14, 2019, 00:52:13 am
Hi,

The way I understand the 5Usport debacle is as follows...

KT agreed to sell the 60% in northampton town ventures for $6mill. Due to issues in getting money out of china, this was to be paid on an installment plan. First payment was received to allow processing of contracts, and for us to go on a signing rampage under JED... loads of centre mids and no wingers if i remember right. This money was then going to fulfill KT promises from when he purchased us.

Much like our repayments to the council, the remaining scheduled payments never arrived. I believe to avoid embarrassment and being on the hook for more money, Belle De Jour (kt & db) created the loan charge against the security of NTFC shares as a way of getting back their share control from 5usport. This then gave them full control of Ventures again and the 75% + majority of the club. The loan money then funded JFH great escape transfer budget, we know how that ended up!

While KT & DB have majorly under delivered on the infrastructure and the club has gone in reverse and new ownership is required. I understand that the whole 5usport thing, along with the council inaction and untruths, led DB to just go screw this I am done with the stress and spending the money. Hence being put up for sale, nothing happening on development, budget being tightened.

I do not believe the expected gain from the sale of the 60% of Ventures to 5usport gave either of them the return that has been previously mentioned in the thread, along with a portion that was meant to be funding players.



Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: JollyCobbler on January 14, 2019, 01:02:57 am
Hi,

The way I understand the 5Usport debacle is as follows...

KT agreed to sell the 60% in northampton town ventures for $6mill. Due to issues in getting money out of china, this was to be paid on an installment plan. First payment was received to allow processing of contracts, and for us to go on a signing rampage under JED... loads of centre mids and no wingers if i remember right. This money was then going to fulfill KT promises from when he purchased us.

Much like our repayments to the council, the remaining scheduled payments never arrived. I believe to avoid embarrassment and being on the hook for more money, Belle De Jour (kt & db) created the loan charge against the security of NTFC shares as a way of getting back their share control from 5usport. This then gave them full control of Ventures again and the 75% + majority of the club. The loan money then funded JFH great escape transfer budget, we know how that ended up!

While KT & DB have majorly under delivered on the infrastructure and the club has gone in reverse and new ownership is required. I understand that the whole 5usport thing, along with the council inaction and untruths, led DB to just go screw this I am done with the stress and spending the money. Hence being put up for sale, nothing happening on development, budget being tightened.

I do not believe the expected gain from the sale of the 60% of Ventures to 5usport gave either of them the return that has been previously mentioned in the thread, along with a portion that was meant to be funding players.



Cheers, Kelvin. ;)


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: The Rauldinho on January 14, 2019, 05:56:39 am
Why should the Trust waste time and energy on rumours?

It doesn't take much time or energy to say yes or no to confirming statements made by people does it?


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Irchy cob on January 14, 2019, 08:41:08 am
Why should the Trust waste time and energy on rumours?

Unless Iím missing something it was someone on the Trust board who started the rumour!


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: clarkeysntfc on January 14, 2019, 09:38:48 am
Unless Iím missing something it was someone on the Trust board who started the rumour!

Correct, DrillingCobbler is a trust board member and is making borderline libelous accusations on here.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: barton cobbler on January 14, 2019, 09:54:58 am
Correct, DrillingCobbler is a trust board member and is making borderline libelous accusations on here.
What has him being a Trust board member got to do with anything? As he stated, he is posting his thoughts, just like I post my thoughts, as lots of people have said, it's not the place of the Trust to comment on rumours.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: BackOfTheNet on January 14, 2019, 10:22:06 am
What has him being a Trust board member got to do with anything? As he stated, he is posting his thoughts, just like I post my thoughts, as lots of people have said, it's not the place of the Trust to comment on rumours.

I think the point is it's a very fine line. You don't hear Theresa May saying "I think the Germans are a bunch of ****s, but that's just my personal opinion and nothing to do with my role as PM." Like it or not, if you choose to represent an organisation then there's a blurring between what are your personal statements and the statements of the organisation itself, meaning a degree of circumspection is required as a result.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: everbrite on January 14, 2019, 10:41:52 am
What has him being a Trust board member got to do with anything? As he stated, he is posting his thoughts, just like I post my thoughts, as lots of people have said, it's not the place of the Trust to comment on rumours.


I find that comment incredulous as if Drilling as a Trust Board Member has independently made these comments then they are unwise.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on January 14, 2019, 10:45:13 am
Well said Beds

You can't get KT to give you a straight answer about anything let alone offshore money from China via Dubai / BVI etc so I doubt very much you will ever get an answer about who owns what, how much money, where the money come from etc

Posters saying that the Chinese would not give £6m and walk away, well I would not be surprised if that money was 'dirty' and is not worth anywhere near the same as clean money. The FACT (sorry but it is) that KT / Bower etc hold most of the companies in offshore businesses tells you all you need to know, especially when you add in some of their broken promises and dubious (at best) practices of screwing over fans and NBC council

Again KT is the front man so he get most of the praise / stick, my first thought was if he had got £6m then why not walk away, but thinking about it I bet he never saw much of that money, afterall Bower / Chinese / Dubai are the money men, KT is a glorified lacky running around for all these 'rich' folk, fronting as a football man.



This needs to stop. If we have a fight on our hands, lets at least make it a clean fight. Nobody, including the Trust, is going to benefit from making allegations that cannot be substantiated. Anything that is used to fight with now, that is found to be untrue at a later stage, will absolutely blow the credibility of any party that is interested in taking over NTFC.

Nothing that I have heard so far, suggest that either KT or Bowers walked away with vast sums of money. Equally, there is no confirmation from anywhere demonstrating the extent of losses, if indeed there are any. I have heard all sort of figures, from many sources. Not one of them with an ounce of proof. I haven't spoke about any of these rumours at all. I will not, until I see something to corroborate these RUMOURS.

So let's get this straight. We know that we are getting rid of high earners. We know that we have seen very little, if any real progress under the current board. We know that we haven't had satisfactory answers to questions directed at KT. We know that more and more of the support are getting disillusioned. We know that the current regime has spent a disproportionate amount of time concentrating on land deals, rather than improving the squad or the infrastructure. I think there is plenty to deal with just using the FACTS as we know them.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: meccanostand on January 14, 2019, 10:47:36 am
The issue for Kelvin might not be the result of the poll on this thread but that it exists at all.

In a vacuum of information and press rigour then rumour nearly always fills the gap. 5USPORTS have not commented to date, maybe if they did the situation would be clarified. Unfortunately there are so many unanswered questions that when the club board plug one hole another bursts open.

So called libellous comments are by the by. Not all controversial comments are libellous, the only become so when the recipient decides they are defamatory and successfully sues in court. Kelvin Thomas suing a valued and passionate Cobblers fan would be the beginning of the end of his tenure.

The £6million fee is a side-issue, important but part of a bigger issue. We need to be looking at what the football club will look like when KT departs (as he will, like all other owners) as much as what is happening presently.



Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: random on January 14, 2019, 10:47:47 am
so the Daily Mail publish that KT / DC were paid £6m for a share of NTFC, the same NTFC that they paid almost nothing for whilst broken promise after broken promise and some posters can only post about Drilling as a board member should not post his opinions on here !

Then them same posters complain they are not kept up to date and also ask the Trust to prove how much KT got from the 'sale'. THE WHOLE POINT IS IT WAS DONE IN SECRECY IN OFF SHORE ACCOUNTS ffs Governments struggle to get info from there so how do you expect us to?  

I take the view that if people are not anti how the board has dealt with NTFC then they support it, if they are neither then they have no opinion, time has long gone for the wait and see. Nothing is happening with NTFC, we are not progressing, as usual we are behind the times, it is time to stand up and fight for the club you all love, but this time we need to get some control and say. That way if China come knocking with £6m we say ok great, we will build training facilities and retain 25% ownership etc, not deposit it off-shore so Drilling and Barton can sail off round the world together  ;D





Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: meccanostand on January 14, 2019, 10:51:07 am
This needs to stop. If we have a fight on our hands, lets at least make it a clean fight. Nobody, including the Trust, is going to benefit from making allegations that cannot be substantiated. Anything that is used to fight with now, that is found to be untrue at a later stage, will absolutely blow the credibility of any party that is interested in taking over NTFC.

Nothing that I have heard so far, suggest that either KT or Bowers walked away with vast sums of money. Equally, there is no confirmation from anywhere demonstrating the extent of losses, if indeed there are any. I have heard all sort of figures, from many sources. Not one of them with an ounce of proof. I haven't spoke about any of these rumours at all. I will not, until I see something to corroborate these RUMOURS.

So let's get this straight. We know that we are getting rid of high earners. We know that we have seen very little, if any real progress under the current board. We know that we haven't had satisfactory answers to questions directed at KT. We know that more and more of the support are getting disillusioned. We know that the current regime has spent a disproportionate amount of time concentrating on land deals, rather than improving the squad or the infrastructure. I think there is plenty to deal with just using the FACTS as we know them.

Agree with the majority of that. The 5USports saga will be investigated (and it is being) but it's a side issue.


Title: Re: Kelvin Thomas
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on January 14, 2019, 10:54:24 am
In order to protect this site I am locking this thread. Please be mindful on other threads, and I know this for sure. You will be asked to substantiate what you post.

You have to remember... Only post what you know. Discussion and debate, does not entitle you to speculate on what you "believe" to be the truth. If you have facts, then share them. But remember.. You are being watched. You have a responsibility to all employees at NTFC and this board. Libel is simple. You can say what you know. Not what you think.