The Hotel End

The Hotel End => Cobblers Corner => Topic started by: Luxembourg Cobbler on November 07, 2020, 14:10:27 pm



Title: WALTER TULL
Post by: Luxembourg Cobbler on November 07, 2020, 14:10:27 pm
Good afternoon all

Stumbled across this article in Daily Mail online - it concerns one of our very famous players from years before, hope is of some interest

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8923805/Mystery-grave-one-Britains-black-officers-Walter-Tull-solved.html


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: BackOfTheNet on November 07, 2020, 19:33:48 pm
It really pisses me off when media sources link him to Spurs rather than us. Yes, he played for them first but was drummed out through racism, yet they often seem to get the credit for being some sort of progressive club for having a black player in those days.


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: Teachers Pet on November 07, 2020, 19:50:32 pm
It really pisses me off when media sources link him to Spurs rather than us. Yes, he played for them first but was drummed out through racism, yet they often seem to get the credit for being some sort of progressive club for having a black player in those days.

Agree 100%.


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: Bosco_Jancovic on November 13, 2020, 21:59:52 pm
Mr.Tull was better than any person who sends a message on here.

He was brave, he was strong, he was a good man.

How many who write on here?  How many would do as he did?

You all baby poop-arse.

Mr.Tull shame you all.


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: EB Claret on November 13, 2020, 22:51:06 pm
Walter Tull and thousands of others like him went off to fight in two world wars, in the certain knowledge that many of them would die. Their best form of defence was their best mate copping the bullet instead of them. Many went knowing that war is futile, as both wars ultimately were, they went because they were told it was the right thing to do at the time.

What would they think of our generation, remembering them at Cenotaphs socially distanced and in a one way system. Retreating to take shelter in our homes or crossing the street to keep away from our neighbours, hiding behind our face nappies.
Is that what they fought for? They would probably say ' Man up and get on with your lives'.

Sorry to be a misery.


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: tcobb on November 13, 2020, 23:19:06 pm
EB Claret have you actually had Covid ?

Bosic, time to stop playing games, you are turning into a complete embarrassment,  grow up.


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: Bosco_Jancovic on November 13, 2020, 23:48:25 pm
Walter Tull and thousands of others like him went off to fight in two world wars, in the certain knowledge that many of them would die. Their best form of defence was their best mate copping the bullet instead of them. Many went knowing that war is futile, as both wars ultimately were, they went because they were told it was the right thing to do at the time.

What would they think of our generation, remembering them at Cenotaphs socially distanced and in a one way system. Retreating to take shelter in our homes or crossing the street to keep away from our neighbours, hiding behind our face nappies.
Is that what they fought for? They would probably say ' Man up and get on with your lives'.

Sorry to be a misery.

Good man!


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: Bosco_Jancovic on November 13, 2020, 23:49:26 pm
EB Claret have you actually had Covid ?

Bosic, time to stop playing games, you are turning into a complete embarrassment,  grow up.

Bad man/  Baby coward.  Suck your mummy ****.


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: Bosco_Jancovic on November 13, 2020, 23:57:04 pm
EB Claret have you actually had Covid ?

Bosic, time to stop playing games, you are turning into a complete embarrassment,  grow up.

You catch bomb?

You baby-cry-mummy.



Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: EB Claret on November 13, 2020, 23:59:31 pm
EB Claret have you actually had Covid ?

Bosic, time to stop playing games, you are turning into a complete embarrassment,  grow up.

I don't know if I've had Covid I haven't had a test yet. Not belittling the effect the virus has on the unlucky ones at all, just making a comparison between our generation in general and the 'Keep Calm and Carry On' era.
Every Armistice day I get angry with the politicians who sent all those fine young men to their deaths.
Hope that explains my post.


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: Bosco_Jancovic on November 14, 2020, 00:03:05 am
EB Claret have you actually had Covid ?

Bosic, time to stop playing games, you are turning into a complete embarrassment,  grow up.

Hey, Mr.EB Claret.You come visit me in Sarajevo.I will be home next week. You tell my friends your big story.


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: Bosco_Jancovic on November 14, 2020, 00:14:09 am
Hey, Mr.EB Claret.You come visit me in Sarajevo.I will be home next week. You tell my friends your big story.

Sorry, Mr.EB.Claret.   You are a good man. I was angry MR.tosser.


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: Bosco_Jancovic on November 14, 2020, 00:15:50 am
EB Claret have you actually had Covid ?

Bosic, time to stop playing games, you are turning into a complete embarrassment,  grow up.

You come see me in Sarajevo.

You mr.big.fly,I meet you.


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: Bosco_Jancovic on November 14, 2020, 00:31:35 am
Mr.Tull was a hero.



Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: BackOfTheNet on November 14, 2020, 07:22:03 am
Walter Tull and thousands of others like him went off to fight in two world wars, in the certain knowledge that many of them would die. Their best form of defence was their best mate copping the bullet instead of them. Many went knowing that war is futile, as both wars ultimately were, they went because they were told it was the right thing to do at the time.

What would they think of our generation, remembering them at Cenotaphs socially distanced and in a one way system. Retreating to take shelter in our homes or crossing the street to keep away from our neighbours, hiding behind our face nappies.
Is that what they fought for? They would probably say ' Man up and get on with your lives'.

Sorry to be a misery.

Sorry, but that's a stupid analogy. Those that went off to war did what they had to to fight a physical enemy. We're fighting an enemy you can't even see. The soldiers in our current "war" are the doctors, nurses and scientists and the rest of us are just the civilians trying to keep our heads down and see it out.

Do you have the same sort of contempt for WWII civilians who cowered in air raid shelters and carried gas masks in case they needed a "face nappy"?


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: NTFC87 on November 14, 2020, 08:10:49 am
Bad man/  Baby coward.  Suck your mummy ****.
bit personal that wasn’t it. Chill out


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: tcobb on November 14, 2020, 08:55:43 am
Don't worry about it NTFC 87.
Its just a shame that on a post about Walter Tull there is some idiot who thinks its funny to pretend he's somebody he's not. Pure stupidity


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: Welly Cobb on November 14, 2020, 09:04:22 am
Sorry, but that's a stupid analogy. Those that went off to war did what they had to to fight a physical enemy. We're fighting an enemy you can't even see. The soldiers in our current "war" are the doctors, nurses and scientists and the rest of us are just the civilians trying to keep our heads down and see it out.

Do you have the same sort of contempt for WWII civilians who cowered in air raid shelters and carried gas masks in case they needed a "face nappy"?
An unbelievable statement really when you think about it. They lay in mud and rain, sleepless nights, their friends killed, not knowing if they would ever seen their families... and we've been asked to simply sacrifice going out, watching live football, and putting a mask on in the shop for 5 mins to stop people from that generation and their children dying, and we wont even sacrifice that.


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: everbrite on November 14, 2020, 09:28:45 am
I don't know if I've had Covid I haven't had a test yet. Not belittling the effect the virus has on the unlucky ones at all, just making a comparison between our generation in general and the 'Keep Calm and Carry On' era.
Every Armistice day I get angry with the politicians who sent all those fine young men to their deaths.
Hope that explains my post.

Strange view points - the First World War was about protecting our way of life against a pretty nasty Prussian oligarchy. As for the 2nd against a Nazi inspired Germany needs no defence. You sound like a liberal or worse still a Twitter fanatic!


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: EB Claret on November 14, 2020, 09:52:59 am
Strange view points - the First World War was about protecting our way of life against a pretty nasty Prussian oligarchy. As for the 2nd against a Nazi inspired Germany needs no defence. You sound like a liberal or worse still a Twitter fanatic!

I get all that but politicians start the wars and then after all that death and destruction they sit down together and sign a piece of paper to say it's all over, so ultimately pointless.
I've never tweeted!


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: everbrite on November 14, 2020, 10:06:08 am
I get all that but politicians start the wars and then after all that death and destruction they sit down together and sign a piece of paper to say it's all over, so ultimately pointless.
I've never tweeted!

So it’s careless of us to have a treaty with Belgian to protect their neutrality?  You made some pretty silly comments on COVID considering that 50k have perished.


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: Gen.Disorda on November 14, 2020, 11:01:05 am
Whilst I am no Covid denier,

  • 92% of those people had another cause of death as well as Covid
    The deaths for every other illness bar about 2 have dropped below the 5 year average for June
    8000+ of those deaths were attributed to Covid with no test being carried out.

The ONS data is far better than the raw number they display on the news

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsinvolvingcovid19englandandwales/deathsoccurringinjune2020?fbclid=IwAR2xbTfWWohAaDdMpx1Y87U6t4sPzrvC_Cr7lFqoEFSdthdynXaeHdC-2v4


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: everbrite on November 14, 2020, 11:26:06 am
Whilst I am no Covid denier,

  • 92% of those people had another cause of death as well as Covid
    The deaths for every other illness bar about 2 have dropped below the 5 year average for June
    8000+ of those deaths were attributed to Covid with no test being carried out.

The ONS data is far better than the raw number they display on the news

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsinvolvingcovid19englandandwales/deathsoccurringinjune2020?fbclid=IwAR2xbTfWWohAaDdMpx1Y87U6t4sPzrvC_Cr7lFqoEFSdthdynXaeHdC-2v4

Jesus another denying the facts


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: Horsham Cobbler on November 14, 2020, 11:55:03 am
So it’s careless of us to have a treaty with Belgian to protect their neutrality?  You made some pretty silly comments on COVID considering that 50k have perished.

Think you'll find it's "Belgium"


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: SadOldGit on November 14, 2020, 13:21:03 pm
Think you'll find it's "Belgium"

Think he's after a pact with Jean-Claude Van Damme.


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: everbrite on November 14, 2020, 13:26:03 pm
Think you'll find it's "Belgium"

Thanks top appreciation - you sound nervous before todays game? Do you always talk off topic?


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: EB Claret on November 14, 2020, 13:38:53 pm
So it’s careless of us to have a treaty with Belgian to protect their neutrality?  You made some pretty silly comments on COVID considering that 50k have perished.

After the first world war 50-150 million people died of flu, did the world go on hold? No, does that make all that generation silly?, No of course not, but it show a different attitude, that's all I'm saying.


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: Gen.Disorda on November 14, 2020, 14:09:49 pm
Jesus another denying the facts

I am not denying the facts, I am providing you the facts from the Government data.

I have worn a mask and followed the guidelines to the letter. I am just pointing out that even the government data shows its not actually 50,000 deaths due to Covid.

Even if someone tested positive a chunk of those deaths are actually the result of other illnesses, and 16% of the deaths there was not even a test carried out,

"Our definition of COVID-19 includes some cases where the certifying doctor suspected the death involved COVID-19 but was not certain, for example, because no test was done. Of the 46,736 deaths with an underlying cause of COVID-19, 3,763 (8.1%) were classified as “suspected” COVID-19. Including mentions, “suspected” COVID-19 was recorded on 8.4% (4,251 deaths) of all deaths involving COVID-19."



Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: Horsham Cobbler on November 14, 2020, 14:37:58 pm
Thanks top appreciation - you sound nervous before todays game? Do you always talk off topic?

Who wouldn't be nervous after Monday night.


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: Deepcut Cobbler on October 05, 2021, 17:41:11 pm
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/orphaned-football-pioneer-british-armys-25114578


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: JollyCobbler on October 05, 2021, 18:00:55 pm
I am not denying the facts, I am providing you the facts from the Government data.

I have worn a mask and followed the guidelines to the letter. I am just pointing out that even the government data shows its not actually 50,000 deaths due to Covid.

Even if someone tested positive a chunk of those deaths are actually the result of other illnesses, and 16% of the deaths there was not even a test carried out,

"Our definition of COVID-19 includes some cases where the certifying doctor suspected the death involved COVID-19 but was not certain, for example, because no test was done. Of the 46,736 deaths with an underlying cause of COVID-19, 3,763 (8.1%) were classified as “suspected” COVID-19. Including mentions, “suspected” COVID-19 was recorded on 8.4% (4,251 deaths) of all deaths involving COVID-19."



My aunt died of COVID in May. She was 88 years old and in poor health, and in fact had been bedridden since last October. Nine weeks before she died she was rushed into hospital where she was diagnosed with pneumonia. At this time she tested negative for COVID. Her death certificate lists her death as COVID related. She either contracted COVID while in the hospital, or else never had it. Who knows? Either way, she wasn't a well woman. No one in the family believes that COVID was the primary cause of death.

My best mates uncle suffered a stroke and was taken to hospital. He died nine days later from a COVID related death. When this was queried the family were told it was because he had been placed on a ventilator. So who knows?

Those are just two ACTUAL cases. GEN.Disorda is right, the true facts are out there. But the likes of Evers would rather take the BBC's word on it.
Don't get me wrong, I am not denying the problems caused by this illness. But for those in relatively good health it is not the threat that has been portrayed: I say this as someone who has had COVID, as have my missus, one of my daughters, one of my sons, my daughter-in-law, and five of my grandchildren.


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: BackOfTheNet on October 05, 2021, 18:09:35 pm
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/orphaned-football-pioneer-british-armys-25114578

It's still a travesty that he wasn't awarded the Military Cross. As I understand it, it basically wasn't given not because it wasn't deserved, but because at the time black soldiers weren't eligible for it. He wasn't eligible to become an officer either, but they were happy for him to become one and lead his men over the top.


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: tcobb on October 05, 2021, 18:46:39 pm
Back of the net, there is no evidence at all that Tull wasn't given the Military Medal because of his colour. We will never know why Tull and other service personnel who were recommended for medals in WW1 never got them.

As a footnote the first Victoria Cross awarded to a person of colour was given in 1857.


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: BackOfTheNet on October 05, 2021, 19:31:11 pm
I'm sure I remember reading something about it years ago but Googling it now the only thing I can find is a suggestion that it was refused because of it was rewarded it would have drawn attention to the breach of the rules that allowed him to become an officer in the first place. It does only seem to be a suggestion though and bar a slightly cryptic comment that his biographer might have found some new evidence to suggest that was the case there's no sign of the evidence itself, so happy to be corrected if I've got it wrong!


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: tcobb on October 05, 2021, 19:54:11 pm
I think the misunderstanding comes from a few years back when it was reported that Tull  "Probably "wasn't awarded the Military Medal because of his colour, no proof was put forward to support this theory.


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: JollyCobbler on October 06, 2021, 04:11:39 am
I think the misunderstanding comes from a few years back when it was reported that Tull  "Probably "wasn't awarded the Military Medal because of his colour, no proof was put forward to support this theory.

Was it the BBC who reported this? ;D


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: Coolcat on October 06, 2021, 19:36:13 pm
Was it the BBC who reported this? ;D
To be fair, there was a shortage of military medals at the time, across Europe - not just Britain. To be more accurate, the medals were produced without real problems. However, getting them transported to the Fields of Flanders was the real issue, so much so that Germans were offered the transportation jobs. By all accounts, few took up the offer!


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: Athena on November 11, 2021, 11:02:25 am
Great item on the club web site from Graham McKechnie today on Walter Tull and Frank Anderson.   To my shame I had not heard of Frank Anderson before but apparently he was the Saints first mixed race player and alongside Walter fought in the first world war, in the same regiment.  Its a great article and Graham needs to be heartily thanked for bringing these stories together and to our attention especially on this day.  We must remember both of them.  On another matter it was good to see that Walter has been honoured at the National Football Museum.  I am going to the museum next week on a visit and look forward to seeing the memorial/plaque they have apparently erected in his memory


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: Deepcut Cobbler on November 11, 2021, 11:24:55 am
https://www.forces.net/news/black-history-month-who-was-walter-tull
https://www.forces.net/news/uks-first-black-army-officer-walter-tull-national-football-museum-hall-fame


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: Manwork04 on November 11, 2021, 12:07:37 pm
Was it the BBC who reported this? ;D
Of course it was and it was Boris Johnson’s fault too.


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: Coolcat on November 25, 2021, 13:59:01 pm
Reading about Walter Tull in Tuesday night's programme;

Unable to cope with all the children, his stepmother allowed Walter and his youngest brother to join an orphanage.

That's some spin stepmom!


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: Athena on November 25, 2021, 14:50:12 pm
I visited the National Football Museum in Manchester last week.  There is a really nice exhibit giving details of Walter Tull's life and I think its great that he is now included alongside the greats of the game.  On a wider point if you are ever in Manchester with some time to spare, I would fully recommend a visit to the museum.


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: Manwork04 on November 25, 2021, 15:31:33 pm
Whenever we have a stand worthy of his name the East Stand should be called The Walter Tull Stand.


Title: Re: WALTER TULL
Post by: Coolcat on November 25, 2021, 15:43:24 pm
Whenever we have a stand worthy of his name the East Stand should be called The Walter Tull Stand.
The pub on the hill was worthy of his name for a short time - even selling the Great Oakley ale of the same name...before Greene King got their hands on it!