The Hotel End

General Category => General Chat => Topic started by: BackOfTheNet on January 14, 2022, 07:10:56 am



Title: Garden Party Shenanigans
Post by: BackOfTheNet on January 14, 2022, 07:10:56 am
I have a confession to make.  I quite like Boris Johnson.

I like him in the way you like characters like Del Boy or Arthur Daley; loveable, bumbling rogues who it's entertaining to watch get into scrapes each week and then enjoy watching how they manage to blag themselves out of the mess they've made. The thing about those characters though is if you step back and look at them objectively you realise they are lying, cheating, thieving scumbags that you'd want nothing to do with in real life. These are hardly qualities you want in a leader though but while I wouldn't vote for him, he has a certain charm.

Having said all that though, and this might be controversial, I don't quite get the furore about the Downing Street parties. These aren't the usual snout-in-the-trough politicians we're talking about. They are just Downing Street workers, civil servants who (presumably) were required to be in the office spending long days, cooped up together doing the actual running of the country during an exceptionally difficult period, and while many other people were safely at home on furlough.

The purpose for the ban on social gatherings was to prevent people coming together who wouldn't otherwise be together, but when those people have spent all day together anyway I don't see where the harm is in them decamping to the garden for an extra hour or so when they've finished work. Granted, the sending out of an invitation was probably ill-advised, but the actual act isn't really any different to any other key workers popping outside for a fag or meeting for a coffee in the work canteen after their shift.

There's plenty of questionable things Boris has done (and the shameful way he behaved during the whole Brexit mess should have meant he wasn't elected in the first place) but for me, just popping out to mingle with his team and say thanks for their efforts isn't one of them.


Title: Re: Garden Party Shenanigans
Post by: Carton Lid on January 14, 2022, 16:47:02 pm
Sorry I can't agree with that. These were the people who made the rules , if anyone knew the ins and outs of the rules it was them, yet they CHOSE to ignore the rules they made. Surely someone there must have thought "This is NOT a good idea", it was inevitable that it would come out sometime, with that number of people involved. But the BIG thing is, how would you feel if you had a loved one who passed away on their own because you obeyed the rules and stayed away from the hospital but then saw about the 12 parties that have been found out so far, I would be f***ing fuming !!!!!
     On top of that , he's lied to the house when he said on 8th Dec "There was no party" and that "He didn't attend any parties" , how can we EVER believe another word he says ?
     You cannot defend the indefensible, if he had any integrity he would resign, but we know integrity is not high on his list of attributes.  :(


Title: Re: Garden Party Shenanigans
Post by: singcobb on January 14, 2022, 22:59:06 pm
Sorry I can't agree with that. These were the people who made the rules , if anyone knew the ins and outs of the rules it was them, yet they CHOSE to ignore the rules they made. Surely someone there must have thought "This is NOT a good idea", it was inevitable that it would come out sometime, with that number of people involved. But the BIG thing is, how would you feel if you had a loved one who passed away on their own because you obeyed the rules and stayed away from the hospital but then saw about the 12 parties that have been found out so far, I would be f***ing fuming !!!!!
     On top of that , he's lied to the house when he said on 8th Dec "There was no party" and that "He didn't attend any parties" , how can we EVER believe another word he says ?
     You cannot defend the indefensible, if he had any integrity he would resign, but we know integrity is not high on his list of attributes.  :(

Well fúck me a politician that lies, now that's new.


Title: Re: Garden Party Shenanigans
Post by: BackOfTheNet on January 15, 2022, 07:50:32 am
Sorry I can't agree with that. These were the people who made the rules , if anyone knew the ins and outs of the rules it was them, yet they CHOSE to ignore the rules they made. Surely someone there must have thought "This is NOT a good idea", it was inevitable that it would come out sometime, with that number of people involved. But the BIG thing is, how would you feel if you had a loved one who passed away on their own because you obeyed the rules and stayed away from the hospital but then saw about the 12 parties that have been found out so far, I would be f***ing fuming !!!!!
     On top of that , he's lied to the house when he said on 8th Dec "There was no party" and that "He didn't attend any parties" , how can we EVER believe another word he says ?
     You cannot defend the indefensible, if he had any integrity he would resign, but we know integrity is not high on his list of attributes.  :(

It's this sort of outrage that I'm struggling to understand, to be honest. It's like saying "I don't like apples so you can't like bananas"; there's a logical disconnect there.

Of course people dying alone in a hospital is heartbreaking and my heart goes out to both them and their relatives who now have to live with the knowledge of how their loved ones died. But what's that got to do with some other people having a drink after work, in their place of work?

If the Downing Street bods decided they could visit their relatives in hospital when no one else could then I'd understand the outrage.  That would be one rule for them and one for the rest of us. Having a few drinks with people you've already spent all day with before leaving work would make miniscule difference to the spread of covid and have zero impact on those in hospital. Personally, I had a lovely time relaxing in my garden in the sunshine while I was on furlough - why not extend the righteous indignation to me? How dare you be enjoying yourself while people are dying alone in hospitals?

Boris lying about it is different matter, but it's hardly surprising as he's made a career out of it - fired for lying as a journalist (twice, if I'm not mistaken), proven as a liar during the Brexit campaign, numerous times as PM...


Title: Re: Garden Party Shenanigans
Post by: CJ on January 15, 2022, 12:12:25 pm
I don't think the public are comparing not being able to visit loved ones in their final days with parties in the grounds of Downing St. That is being done by government apologists as a diversionary tactic and a means of excusing itself. The public as a whole are much more sincere than that.
Its only a guess but I think the outrage might stem from the fact that we were all subject to a lockdown that prevented us
socially from doing pretty much anything other than exercising for an hour a day and meeting one person at a time whilst Downing St were holding gatherings for groups of 50 with people encouraged to 'let off steam'.
That is not a practice people associate with working. Letting off steam with colleagues from work, wherever that takes place, is an entirely different concept.
We all saw footage of the police entering private premises and arresting people who had gathered to socialise and let off steam, yet we are expected to tolerate similar indiscretions by politicians and mandarins because they are somehow different?




Title: Re: Garden Party Shenanigans
Post by: Carton Lid on January 15, 2022, 12:27:14 pm
I
If the Downing Street bods decided they could visit their relatives in hospital when no one else could then I'd understand the outrage.  That would be one rule for them and one for the rest of us. Having a few drinks with people you've already spent all day with before leaving work would make miniscule difference to the spread of covid and have zero impact on those in hospital. Personally, I had a lovely time relaxing in my garden in the sunshine while I was on furlough - why not extend the righteous indignation to me?

Boris lying about it is different matter, but it's hardly surprising as he's made a career out of it - fired for lying as a journalist (twice, if I'm not mistaken), proven as a liar during the Brexit campaign, numerous times as PM...
But the rules were quite clear, their was no discrimination between having " a few drinks with people" or visiting a sick relative. Both were against the rules. You didn't break any rules by relaxing in you're garden, so no one would be upset by that.
    Also, a big factor in this is, they are the leaders of the country and should be setting an example, like the Queen did at Prince Philips funeral,


Title: Re: Garden Party Shenanigans
Post by: BackOfTheNet on January 16, 2022, 09:40:43 am
But the rules were quite clear, their was no discrimination between having " a few drinks with people" or visiting a sick relative. Both were against the rules. You didn't break any rules by relaxing in you're garden, so no one would be upset by that.

Don't get me wrong, I accept I'm in the minority here, but I don't think the rules in this particular instance are that cut and dried. Had they invited other people in or held the events at another venue or even travelled in especially for the occasion then I'd be in complete agreement. However, the same group of people who had been working together all day having a drink in their place of work before leaving? I'm not sure that really violates too much; the only difference between what they did and working overtime is they had a drink in their hand.

Doctors, nurses, binmen, warehouse operatives, factory workers... I'll bet all of them at some stage or another had breaks where they socialised with their colleague and I'd be amazed if there weren't plenty of businesses where the owners didn't bring in a crate of beer as a thank you for their staff to enjoy at the end of a shift. I was a stickler for the rules while they were in place, but even I wouldn't have begrudged people who had to keep going to work this small comfort.


Title: Re: Garden Party Shenanigans
Post by: cobblertone on January 16, 2022, 13:22:19 pm
It wasnít once, it was several times. You canít set rules for a nation and breach them yourself without expecting a backlash. Whether he goes or not itís severely dented any ounce of credibility they had. If there were viable alternatives theyíd be even more outrage.


Title: Re: Garden Party Shenanigans
Post by: The 12th Marquis of Sixfields on January 16, 2022, 17:46:13 pm

Doctors, nurses, binmen, warehouse operatives, factory workers... I'll bet all of them at some stage or another had breaks where they socialised with their colleague and I'd be amazed if there weren't plenty of businesses where the owners didn't bring in a crate of beer as a thank you for their staff to enjoy at the end of a shift. I was a stickler for the rules while they were in place, but even I wouldn't have begrudged people who had to keep going to work this small comfort.
The difference is that none of the people you mention made the rules or told us to follow them with the threat of a ten grand fine if we didn't. That's the difference.


Title: Re: Garden Party Shenanigans
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on January 17, 2022, 12:58:23 pm
Lead by example and donít ask people to do something youíre not prepared to do yourself. Neither complicated or difficult. However, a politician who doesnít adhere to those guidelines is walking a tightrope.


Title: Re: Garden Party Shenanigans
Post by: southofthecounty on January 19, 2022, 16:57:04 pm
Let's admit none of us know the real Johnson. Here is a quote from his fellow Tory, and former employer Max Hastings...

Boris [Boris Johnson] is a gold medal egomaniac. I would not trust him with my wife nor - from painful experience - my wallet. His chaotic public persona is not an act - he is indeed manically disorganised about everything except his own image management. He is also a far more ruthless and frankly, nastier, figure than the public appreciates. I would not take Boris's word about whether it is Monday or Tuesday. He is not a man to believe in, to trust or respect, save as a superlative exhibitionist. He is bereft of judgement, loyalty or discretion. Only in the star-crazed, frivolous Britain of the 21st Century, could such a man have risen so high, and he is utterly unfit to go higher still.

As references from a former employer go, I have seen better.