The Hotel End

The Hotel End => Cobblers Corner => Topic started by: sxcobbler on January 30, 2023, 13:34:10 pm



Title: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: sxcobbler on January 30, 2023, 13:34:10 pm
Breaking News as per NTST page on Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/ntfcsupporterstrust


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: West Stand on January 30, 2023, 13:48:30 pm
Breaking News as per NTST page on Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/ntfcsupporterstrust

So the partner puts the money up, and then the Trust wants more money to sell them the land they have already financed. I don't get it.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Ragdoll Cobbler on January 30, 2023, 13:51:57 pm
So, now bid withdrawn, name the partner please


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: DavCobb on January 30, 2023, 14:17:44 pm
No doubt KT will get the blame by page 2.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Risdene on January 30, 2023, 14:23:34 pm
The Trust told members it was best to supply email addresses and then go ahead with a major announcement by telling the media and via the few on facebook!

Surely inform members first via email?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Tabasco Kid on January 30, 2023, 14:59:46 pm
The Trust told members it was best to supply email addresses and then go ahead with a major announcement by telling the media and via the few on facebook!

Surely inform members first via email?
Absolutely. I am a Trust shareholder, and once again, I have not been notified of their intentions, and find out via social media. My opinion of them could not get any lower. I very much doubt if any of the board members, will have the balls to come on here and explain themselves. Thats members, not co-opted or advisors, but they do pop their head up periodically on FB.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3548 on January 30, 2023, 15:12:03 pm
Rinsed! And as the Clash once sang “show me your other hand”  >:D


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: MCHammer on January 30, 2023, 15:13:07 pm
So agreement terminated, commercial confidentiality over time for the transparency and openness that we keep getting lectured about.  Who was the partner and what was the detail of the original agreement entered into?

Sevaral massive things immediately stood out for me from that statement.

First thought was, maybe it's not see easy playing fantasy football chairman/developer in the real world is it.  Was it a deal with the devil?  Maybe now there is a level of realisation how cutthroat and complex this world is.

Second the irony of some of the comments made about first option deals on buying the land when they complain about the club making a deal with Buckinghams!  How can EIGHT people agree a deal like this on behalf of their members without any consultation about who the partner is and containing clauses like this is beyond me.

Finally while I can understand why the Trust Board wouldn't have wanted to agree to the clause the council was asking for you can hardly blame the council as they, as we all did, clearly had doubts the deal was deliverable.  If the information the trust were delivering was correct and deliverable then nothing to worry about surely?

Surely anyone with any opinion on this debate can see the massive irony of what the Trust expect our owners to behave like and sign up to when they are asked to do the same.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Another Pedj on January 30, 2023, 15:16:49 pm
It will be interesting to know what they now propose with their £3m


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on January 30, 2023, 15:20:56 pm
Come on Trust this is easy. We have been told on multiple times the land is worth millions more than it is valued at, there is a queue of local millionaires ready in the wings and the ACV can yield a whopping UPTO £250k a year.
Just go to the next name in your little black book.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: MCHammer on January 30, 2023, 15:24:03 pm
It will be interesting to know what they now propose with their £3m

They never had £3m.  The development partners will likely use their £3m to continue their bid for the rest of the land.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on January 30, 2023, 15:26:29 pm
Second the irony of some of the comments made about first option deals on buying the land when they complain about the club making a deal with Buckinghams!  How can EIGHT people agree a deal like this on behalf of their members without any consultation about who the partner is and containing clauses like this is beyond me.
I am surprised by the late change of heart from the other company. Surely the details were agreed in the heads of terms  ???


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Another Pedj on January 30, 2023, 15:34:42 pm
They never had £3m.  The development partners will likely use their £3m to continue their bid for the rest of the land.

They lied?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3548 on January 30, 2023, 15:35:16 pm
They will say that they were acting in the best interests of the trust, there's bound to be a clause in the constitution which enables it. And I'm sure the trust watch dog will pop up at any time to clarify everything as per usual


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Zen Master on January 30, 2023, 15:35:20 pm
The ACV element will now be gone as the party (trust) with a right to bid has now withdrawn their offer.
It would be interesting to know who the other business was and if it was Cilldara or someone else.




Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Tabasco Kid on January 30, 2023, 15:36:31 pm
Seems like despite being warned, they still felt that a box park (no customers) and a truck stop (no facilities) was commercially viable. Not a chance.
So, come forward Andy Roberts, Robert Souster, Bob Clarke, Keith Buckby and tell us what happens next. And tell us about the three million. I am sure that the Hamster raised this point with Delboy.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3548 on January 30, 2023, 15:38:17 pm
They lied?
There's a couple of messages about the £3,000,000 on the redevelopment thread from the co-opted trust board member random1


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: MCHammer on January 30, 2023, 15:41:43 pm
They lied?

Random clarified his previous statement the other day but to clarify THEY never had £3m their partners did.  Got to be honest I thought that was pretty obvious even without the clarification.  It was never Trust money going in to this which in itself was a problem.  Like I say "deal with the devil".   

Lie is a strong word....misrepresented maybe?  


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on January 30, 2023, 15:43:34 pm
Just had a thought and one I dont think I like...
Read the Trust statement again, not including the title, carefully. No where does it say that bid has been withdrawn. Just that their participation has been ended

Quote
In the absence of alternative funding arrangements, the board has no option but to terminate the agreement and hence its participation in the process of bidding for the land.

As the bid has been placed and is under due diligence from the council, does the Trust's position just mean that they will no longer be involved but the bid remains active and they have essentially been played and allowed another speculator to bid on the land through their ACV backdoor? I really hope not.

Maybe some from the Trust can confirm.
Is the full bid, in its entirety now dead? leaving just the owners and Cilldara left involved?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Battery Man on January 30, 2023, 15:47:29 pm
Just had a thought and one I dont think I like...
Read the Trust statement again, not including the title, carefully. No where does it say that bid has been withdrawn. Just that their participation has been ended

As the bid has been placed and is under due diligence from the council, does the Trust's position just mean that they will no longer be involved but the bid remains active and they have essentially been played and allowed another speculator to bid on the land through their ACV backdoor? I really hope not.

Maybe some from the Trust can confirm.
Is the full bid, in its entirety now dead? leaving just the owners and Cilldara left involved?


So potentially the Trust Board may have brought a party to the table who are putting a bid forward that does not benefit NTFC and its fans?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3548 on January 30, 2023, 15:47:56 pm
Just had a thought and one I dont think I like...
Read the Trust statement again, not including the title, carefully. No where does it say that bid has been withdrawn. Just that their participation has been ended

As the bid has been placed and is under due diligence from the council, does the Trust's position just mean that they will no longer be involved but the bid remains active and they have essentially been played and allowed another speculator to bid on the land through their ACV backdoor? I really hope not.

Maybe some from the Trust can confirm.
Is the full bid, in its entirety now dead? leaving just the owners and Cilldara left involved?

It was a bid made by the trust using money provided by people who the trust refused to name, citing commercial confidentiality etc. Are you a journalist Stan?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on January 30, 2023, 15:49:46 pm
I am not


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Tabasco Kid on January 30, 2023, 16:12:53 pm
I am not
Were you ever previously?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on January 30, 2023, 16:53:39 pm
Were you ever previously?
Not that I know of


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BackOfTheNet on January 30, 2023, 17:07:51 pm
So the owners are greedy and machiavellian, their members seemingly pig ignorant and not worthy of consulting, the council unreasonable, now their own development partner's behaviour is described as dismaying.

At some point or another they need to look themselves in the mirror and ask what the common factor in all this is.

I'd also suggest that the upcoming AGM is a good opportunity for the current board to announce their collective resignation over this utter shambles.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Tabasco Kid on January 30, 2023, 17:08:09 pm
Not that I know of
Good answer.  ;D


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3548 on January 30, 2023, 17:13:18 pm
So the owners are greedy and machiavellian, their members seemingly pig ignorant and not worthy of consulting, the council unreasonable, now their own development partner's behaviour is described as dismaying.

At some point or another they need to look themselves in the mirror and ask what the common factor in all this is.

I'd also suggest that the upcoming AGM is a good opportunity for the current board to announce their collective resignation over this utter shambles.

I look forward to the AGM


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Tabasco Kid on January 30, 2023, 17:28:52 pm
https://twitter.com/JakeSharpeBBC/status/1620126266023366657


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BackOfTheNet on January 30, 2023, 17:31:48 pm
https://twitter.com/JakeSharpeBBC/status/1620126266023366657

An utter, utter disgrace.

The board need to resign and resign now. And they can take their advisors with them.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Another Pedj on January 30, 2023, 17:36:57 pm
So the Trust have been working with Cilldara. A company that has stated it has no interest in the Football Club. Indeed its interests are best served with the demise of NTFC. No member of the Trust Board should remain in their current position.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Letchworthcobbler on January 30, 2023, 17:40:08 pm
So the Trust have been working with Cilldara. A company that has stated it has no interest in the Football Club. Indeed its interests are best served with the demise of NTFC. No member of the Trust Board should remain in their current position.

+1


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Tom on January 30, 2023, 17:47:14 pm
So as we suspected from their refusal to answer questions, commercial confidentially actually means that they know they are doing things they should not be doing and invovled with people they know members would not be happy with, manipulative and shameful.

Looks like they also moved forward with this whole project not only without members backing, but also without a watertight agreement in place.

Even this statement from the trust clearly trying to get ahead of the news and make themselves look like a victim is another demonstration of their willingness to lie to their members and fans, another misrepresentation of the truth.

Our (notmytrust.com) main issue has always been about poor behaviour and this is another prime example of that.

Every single one of them should hang their heads in shame and resign.

Time to go.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on January 30, 2023, 17:48:29 pm
Agree with the sentiments above and they should all step down, lets do everything we can to not make this personal to the individuals though.
Agree or disagree we all want what is best for the club and support the team first.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Ragdoll Cobbler on January 30, 2023, 17:53:46 pm
https://twitter.com/JakeSharpeBBC/status/1620126266023366657

Confirms what we all thought at the time of the announcement...but hoped we were all wrong and that there was actually a creditable third party with the clubs best interest at heart...

Absolutely discraceful that the trust (on behalf of but without any consultation with it's members) got into bed with these pure land grabbers with who have absolutely no interest in the club...

What about the trust legal adviser alledgedly liaising with Cilldara prior to the trust bid?

The whole trust board need to resign tonight!  >:(



Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3063 on January 30, 2023, 18:00:35 pm
Confirms what we all thought at the time of the announcement...but hoped we were all wrong and that there was actually a creditable third party with the clubs best interest at heart...

Absolutely discraceful that the trust (on behalf of but without any consultation with it's members) got into bed with these pure land grabbers with who have absolutely no interest in the club...

What about the trust legal adviser alledgedly liaising with Cilldara prior to the trust bid?

The whole trust board need to resign tonight!  >:(



As above.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BackOfTheNet on January 30, 2023, 18:02:58 pm
Not only does this show the Trust board to be an embarrassment, I don't think it shows Cildara in a great light either. Presumably they have their own bid in play, plus this one in the Trust's name through one of their "associated entities".

Doesn't that show them to be a little underhand and prepared to play games to get what they want? Hopefully that will at least give the council pause for thought when considering the integrity of who they do business with.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: DavCobb on January 30, 2023, 18:04:26 pm
No one is surprised. It took Cilldara (or associated entity)
to confirm it though, so much for confidentiality.  :P
We all prefer land grabbers with the clubs interests at heart.
You forget how thick skinned these Trustites are. They’ll come out swinging with the same old rhetoric, with Tony Clarke defending their honour on FB.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: ntfclad on January 30, 2023, 18:08:49 pm
An absolute disgrace.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: MCHammer on January 30, 2023, 18:13:12 pm
I said all this was happening back in October.  Wonder how open they were with the council about who precisely the backer was.

As I said back then the plan was always to present everything as if it was a local development company when in reality it was essentially a front for Cilldara.  It was exactly what I was also expecting them to do now if they had to answer questions now commercial confidentiality was gone.

And we got slaughtered for suggesting, for them, it was anyone but the current owners.

Even if the underlying motivation was to do what they thought was the best thing for the club how could nobody consider the optics of this.

So dumb.  Commercial confidentiality....yeah right.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3548 on January 30, 2023, 18:14:42 pm
Something has gone seriously wrong with the trust board, that they would countenance such a move is incomprehensible.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Zen Master on January 30, 2023, 18:18:11 pm
I don’t trust the trust.



Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: MCHammer on January 30, 2023, 18:21:14 pm
Oh and the other thing.  They were so completely uninspired by warehouses they did a deal with a company that will do exactly that if they get the land!

Oh and don't forget they did a deal with Cilldara that gave them first refusal on buying the ACV land should they ever decide to do so!!!!

And people criticise ME for challenging them so strongly over the last few years when THIS is the sort of thing they have been up to.

Our owners are far from perfect and need to be challenged but the ones doing it should have been better than this and that's all I've ever asked.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: TopCat on January 30, 2023, 18:26:23 pm
Well they need to explain themselves. As it stands they are no better than Cardoza and the crooks who stole the clubs expansion dream 10 years ago. The trust have danced with the devil and sold the club out. I'm utterly disgusted by those on the trust board. RESIGN. All of you and explain why you thought partnering with Cilldara was remotely a good idea!


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Tabasco Kid on January 30, 2023, 18:27:19 pm
No one is surprised. It took Cilldara (or associated entity)
to confirm it though, so much for confidentiality.  :P
We all prefer land grabbers with the clubs interests at heart.
You forget how thick skinned these Trustites are. They’ll come out swinging with the same old rhetoric, with Tony Clarke defending their honour on FB.
And on here..  ;)


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: ntfclad on January 30, 2023, 18:35:41 pm
Saw it summed up well on Twitter, a small number of trust members had their heads turned about fan owned football clubs by a few hipsters and have lost any sense of what they should be there for.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: TopCat on January 30, 2023, 18:40:32 pm
Saw it summed up well on Twitter, a small number of trust members had their heads turned about fan owned football clubs by a few hipsters and have lost any sense of what they should be there for.


Basically they were waaaay out of their depth. Minnows swimming in a Shark tank!


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Tiki-Taka on January 30, 2023, 18:53:10 pm
Time for them to go.

If the Trust Board don’t resign tonight how do Trust members bring forward the vote on Board membership? Or do we have to wait for the current Board to arrange the vote?

Cheers in advance for the answers!


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Alfred on January 30, 2023, 19:02:22 pm
Two Words ...... RESIGN


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: DavCobb on January 30, 2023, 19:04:52 pm
Two Words ...... RESIGN

What’s the second?  ;D


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Tom on January 30, 2023, 19:05:29 pm
For anyone interested:

https://www.notmytrust.com/email-trust

We have called for the trust board to resign, and should that not happen we will move forward with an EGM to press the issue.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3548 on January 30, 2023, 19:08:29 pm
Well done Tom, the trust legal advisor has started his threatening rhetoric on FB, and the recipient is refusing to back down.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Tabasco Kid on January 30, 2023, 19:11:16 pm
For anyone interested:

https://www.notmytrust.com/email-trust

We have called for the trust board to resign, and should that not happen we will move forward with an EGM to press the issue.
You reported a while back, that apart from the nine mentioned, other people would be willing to stand and be named. Is now a good time, or too early?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Alfred on January 30, 2023, 19:12:08 pm
What’s the second?  ;D

RESIGN


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Peter Frost on January 30, 2023, 19:15:17 pm

And we got slaughtered for suggesting, for them, it was anyone but the current owners.


That’s exactly what the motive was and I had that confirmed to me some time ago - so ill thought out it’s embarrassing. I don’t doubt the intentions were to do what was best for the club but I strongly believe the strategy was led by a very small minority within the trust hierarchy - the majority, good people with good intentions had neither the business expertise, time or strength to counter this approach.

I guess moving forward the fundemental question is, has this affair damaged the club - certainly it won’t affect the JD - but if that finds against WNC then I think significant damage has been done - so much s***e thrown at the current owners with a huge and relentless campaign suggestion that they were doing nothing for the benefit of the football club or community why should they be looked on any more favourably than Cilldara, who it is now clear will also do nothing for the club or community - paradoxically the Trust may be instrumental in the end of our club.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BackOfTheNet on January 30, 2023, 19:20:26 pm
paradoxically the Trust may be instrumental in the end of our club.

I've been saying this for ages and getting dismissed as a Trust basher.

They need to go.

Now.

They have caused enough damage.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Manwork04 on January 30, 2023, 19:24:21 pm
Phew at least I’m off the hook.
Seriously though not the brightest move to involve Cilldara.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Peter Frost on January 30, 2023, 19:41:10 pm
Phew at least I’m off the hook.
Seriously though not the brightest move to involve Cilldara.

To give the Trust a tiny bit of credit when they finally realised the truth that their partner was only in it for themselves (which anyone with an iota of business savvy could have told them months ago) at least they did the decent thing and stopped flogging a dead horse.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on January 30, 2023, 19:45:00 pm
Should new Board members be elected I would like to now officially apply for the position of advisor to the board.

My first advice is going to be to make the position redundant. Then put restrictions in place to ensure that never again does an unelected individual such as myself have so much apparent influence and control regarding the decision making process of the board.

Do I get the job?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: 1971cobbler on January 30, 2023, 19:50:33 pm
Should new Board members be elected I would like to now officially apply for the position of advisor to the board.

My first advice is going to be to make the position redundant. Then put restrictions in place to ensure that never again does an unelected individual such as myself have so much apparent influence and control regarding the decision making process of the board.

Do I get the job?

Sounds sensible. Now, shall I get your coat, or will you collect it on the way out?  ;D


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: 1971cobbler on January 30, 2023, 19:51:35 pm
My take on all of this is fairly simple.

What an utter s***show.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on January 30, 2023, 20:04:52 pm
Sounds sensible. Now, shall I get your coat, or will you collect it on the way out?  ;D
You choose, historically advice in my position has not proven to be entirely reliable.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: MCHammer on January 30, 2023, 20:27:35 pm
To give the Trust a tiny bit of credit when they finally realised the truth that their partner was only in it for themselves (which anyone with an iota of business savvy could have told them months ago) at least they did the decent thing and stopped flogging a dead horse.

I think this and your previous post are being very generous to those involved.  They all knew what they were agreeing to and even if some simply went with the flow they are just as responsible.  Despite claims by Keith on Twitter they did have a choice.  But they have lived in an echo chamber for so long and are driven by stopping the current owners at any cost.

They have forgotten they represent their membership and the supporters and that is who they should be guided by.  It's not like we haven't told them enough times over the years and been slaughtered for doing so.

So I have no sympathy because it should have took them 2 seconds to work out this was a bad idea with no positive outcome for the football club even if the bid was ultimately successful.

Isn't it funny how much stick I've got over the years from various people for pointing out all that has now come to pass.  Where are they now?   They have helped enable the Trust Board to continue down this path.  Are they happy with this?  Quiet aren't they.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: random1 on January 30, 2023, 20:38:15 pm
Hi everyone

I am happy to answer questions and offer myself up to explain the Trust position on all this.

First of all it was not a decision that was taken easily or lightly.

IMHO our hand was forced by KT and WNC.

I know many have chosen to bash the £250k box park plan, by ignoring the actual plan and picking up on just one short term aspect of it (the lorry park) and ignoring that it was produced by a company whose business is logistics and very well known in the community.

That was and still is, what the Trust want - to protect the original footprint of the ACV - ie the running track  - that would have done that and much more. But KT picked up the phone to GWS as did others and basically scared and threatened them.

Now how that does not get alarm bells ringing with NTFC fans I really don't know !!!

Then you have WNC who stated in a meeting with us that we had to pay £2m + for the ACV land as they were worried that CDNL would pull out and that they would be left with the land - despite a £3m offer on the table, and they showed no interest or compassion to allow NTFC supporters to keep our land.

Again how that did not get alarm bells ringing with NTFC fans, I give up (almost)

So Cildara offered to give us the ACV land, and we were to have discussion going forward regarding other options - remember Cildara, NBC / WNC and NTFC had been in discussion to buy the club and land for over 6 months previously

KT & The club offered no discussions at this stage - again remember KT had helped kill the ACV deal with GWS.

At the Trust we wanted to protect the football club and land - KT and the council had moved the goalposts again regards stand and land and put in this clause of if no stand you get the land but we get 5 years.

We wanted to at least put pressure on KT and Council to keep the ACV out of the hands on any and all owners and we want to make sure that KT finishes the stand in a good deal for supporters.

THAT WAS NOT AN EASY DECISION IT WAS VERY VERY HARD - The easy thing is to sit on here with no name or from the comfort of living upto 10 000 miles away and say the Trust should do this and this, they should do a deal with a Chairman who does not listen to anything he doesn't want to, a chairman who has dismissed Oxford Trust, Torquay Trust and NTFC Trust. A Chairman that has sold the club without informing fans or staff and has had at least 3 buyers walk out on his negotiations to sell the club.



Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: MCHammer on January 30, 2023, 20:38:50 pm
Should new Board members be elected I would like to now officially apply for the position of advisor to the board.

My first advice is going to be to make the position redundant. Then put restrictions in place to ensure that never again does an unelected individual such as myself have so much apparent influence and control regarding the decision making process of the board.

Do I get the job?

Nothing wrong with getting advice on matters where you have little knowledge or expertise to aid decision making.  As you rightly point out though the advisors should simply be that.  If they wanted more influence then they should have stood for the board themselves....wonder why that never happened.

Something was said years ago on here by the current Cilldara/Trust Legal advisor when it was suggested they stood for a board position.  They stated they could do their work far more effectively not being on the board.  Influence without accountability and recourse can be quite appealing to some people can't it.  


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Tom on January 30, 2023, 20:39:21 pm
To give the Trust a tiny bit of credit when they finally realised the truth that their partner was only in it for themselves (which anyone with an iota of business savvy could have told them months ago) at least they did the decent thing and stopped flogging a dead horse.

I suspect the reality is Cilldara pulled the money, and the trust put something out to try and save face saying the trust had pulled the deal, that's at least how I understood what was said by Cilldara.

It's clear the trust knew members would not get behind this partnership - hence they chose not to consult them, it's clear they knew fans and members would be outraged if it came out which is why they refused to answer questions and hid behind "confidentiality" - they knew what they were getting into, they knew exactly what they were doing.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: random1 on January 30, 2023, 20:43:11 pm
Talking of confidentiality Tom, what are you plans and thoughts around the ACV running track land?

Will you be fighting the council and owners not to put a warehouse on half of it?

Just so I and others know what we are voting for

Thanks


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Tom on January 30, 2023, 20:44:03 pm
Talking of confidentiality Tom, what are you plans and thoughts around the ACV running track land?

Will you be fighting the council and owners not to put a warehouse on half of it?

Just so I and others know what we are voting for

Thanks

Something to be discussed by the trust board, while consulting their membership I'd suggest.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: MCHammer on January 30, 2023, 20:44:07 pm
I am happy to answer questions and offer myself up to explain the Trust position on all this.

Great and good for you for fronting up.

Who approached who with the idea first and how do the Trust Board and Cilldara know each other?

What was the exact detail of the deal?

How was the Trust deal more beneficial for the club than the current one?

What was happening with the rest of the land as part of this deal?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: random1 on January 30, 2023, 20:47:48 pm
I suspect the reality is Cilldara pulled the money, and the trust put something out to try and save face saying the trust had pulled the deal, that's at least how I understood what was said by Cilldara.

It's clear the trust knew members would not get behind this partnership - hence they chose not to consult them, it's clear they knew fans and members would be outraged if it came out which is why they refused to answer questions and hid behind "confidentiality" - they knew what they were getting into, they knew exactly what they were doing.

Lies Tom, Lies

or should i just say you have it wrong again.

And also what difference does it make that it was Cildara?  

Yes a real shame that the people / fans couldn't come together and bid for the land but they haven't so far.

people say that had no interest in the club but tried to buy it but walked away when i believe, the price changed.

What do you know about David Bower and his money?  did you bother to question him when he took over? question that he lives 4000 miles away in Dubai?  No you didn't and no-one else did, so please stop all this Cildara are the devil stuff please.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Tom on January 30, 2023, 20:49:26 pm
Lies Tom, Lies

or should i just say you have it wrong again.

And also what difference does it make that it was Cildara?  

Yes a real shame that the people / fans couldn't come together and bid for the land but they haven't so far.

people say that had no interest in the club but tried to buy it but walked away when i believe, the price changed.

What do you know about David Bower and his money?  did you bother to question him when he took over? question that he lives 4000 miles away in Dubai?  No you didn't and no-one else did, so please stop all this Cildara are the devil stuff please.


You'll note i said, I suspect. But you can as always just jump to try and discredit.

The very fact that you're here still not seeing the problem that it was Cilldara further demonstrates the problem.

You guys know what you did. It's time to put your big boy pants on, own your mistakes, and resign.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: random1 on January 30, 2023, 20:57:31 pm
Something to be discussed by the trust board, while consulting their membership I'd suggest.

No you are trying to take over the Trust, the members need to know now or are you suggesting a closed shop by you and your mates?

and by the way I find the way that you are trying to discredit good people and lifelong genuine Cobblers like Andy Roberts, Keith Buckby and Bob Clarke, to name a few, absolutely disgusting.

You and all of your 9 who want to take over the board, have refused to attend meetings, refused to say what you plans are, refused to attend board meetings.

The Trust is 30 years old and the dedication to it from ALL it's board members over the years is not something that should be belittled and threatened by those who wont engage or tell supporters what they stand for.

One of your leaders, Barry Collins voted for the ACV to be invoked and then whilst Secretary actively planned against the Trust, took money away from the Trust in setting up another travel club, without one word of warning or asking of help.
How can you and fans put you name and Trust in someone who acts like that?  


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Tom on January 30, 2023, 21:00:56 pm
No you are trying to take over the Trust, the members need to know now or are you suggesting a closed shop by you and your mates?

and by the way I find the way that you are trying to discredit good people and lifelong genuine Cobblers like Andy Roberts, Keith Buckby and Bob Clarke, to name a few, absolutely disgusting. Read the room, they've done this all by themselves. You have collectively made decision to consciously go against the fanbase and the member base, if you feel your reputation is hurting - look in the mirror. I'd also like to point you to your very own behavior, right here on this forum towards fans such as myself, in an attempt to discredit them. Those are lifelong fans too.

You and all of your 9 who want to take over the board, have refused to attend meetings, refused to say what you plans are, refused to attend board meetings. - Our stance has been clear, your behavior is the issue, not the bid - the other stuff is the stuff that should be discussed. We've refused to attend boarding meetings because of the incapability of civil discussion by your board members.

The Trust is 30 years old and the dedication to it from ALL it's board members over the years is not something that should be belittled and threatened by those who wont engage or tell supporters what they stand for. - and in all those years, the trust board has never had such a poor reputation, and it's board has never treated fans how the current board has.

One of your leaders, Barry Collins voted for the ACV to be invoked and then whilst Secretary actively planned against the Trust, took money away from the Trust in setting up another travel club, without one word of warning or asking of help. - You know this not to be true, but even with his different view he's been perfectly welcome and had friendly conversation - something the trust board is currently not capable of, different opinions without abuse.
How can you and fans put you name and Trust in someone who acts like that?  

Here is a very simple way to look at this.

What do you think would happen if every single member of the trust was given a vote in a simple vote today, should the trust board resign yes or no?

The answer to that (which I think we all know the answer to) shows this board has failed & let down the membership - regardless of anything else, regardless of any opinions you hold.

You are supposed to represent and act on behalf of your members, not the opinions of the board.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on January 30, 2023, 21:06:24 pm
Hi everyone

I am happy to answer questions and offer myself up to explain the Trust position on all this.

First of all it was not a decision that was taken easily or lightly.

IMHO our hand was forced by KT and WNC.

I know many have chosen to bash the £250k box park plan, by ignoring the actual plan and picking up on just one short term aspect of it (the lorry park) and ignoring that it was produced by a company whose business is logistics and very well known in the community.

That was and still is, what the Trust want - to protect the original footprint of the ACV - ie the running track  - that would have done that and much more. But KT picked up the phone to GWS as did others and basically scared and threatened them.

Now how that does not get alarm bells ringing with NTFC fans I really don't know !!!

Then you have WNC who stated in a meeting with us that we had to pay £2m + for the ACV land as they were worried that CDNL would pull out and that they would be left with the land - despite a £3m offer on the table, and they showed no interest or compassion to allow NTFC supporters to keep our land.

Again how that did not get alarm bells ringing with NTFC fans, I give up (almost)

So Cildara offered to give us the ACV land, and we were to have discussion going forward regarding other options - remember Cildara, NBC / WNC and NTFC had been in discussion to buy the club and land for over 6 months previously

KT & The club offered no discussions at this stage - again remember KT had helped kill the ACV deal with GWS.

At the Trust we wanted to protect the football club and land - KT and the council had moved the goalposts again regards stand and land and put in this clause of if no stand you get the land but we get 5 years.

We wanted to at least put pressure on KT and Council to keep the ACV out of the hands on any and all owners and we want to make sure that KT finishes the stand in a good deal for supporters.

THAT WAS NOT AN EASY DECISION IT WAS VERY VERY HARD - The easy thing is to sit on here with no name or from the comfort of living upto 10 000 miles away and say the Trust should do this and this, they should do a deal with a Chairman who does not listen to anything he doesn't want to, a chairman who has dismissed Oxford Trust, Torquay Trust and NTFC Trust. A Chairman that has sold the club without informing fans or staff and has had at least 3 buyers walk out on his negotiations to sell the club.


Don’t drag me into this Derek. Not once have I said the box park wouldn’t work. What I did do 7 months ago was write directly to the board asking how finance was to be channeled into the club from the scheme. A perfectly reasonable set of questions to a vital aspect of the proposal dont you think that went unanswered and ignored. If you wanted support perhaps they could have been answered, which would at least demonstrated the plan had been given full consideration to all reasonable challenges? Given that the point of the project was to raise an income for the club why were they unanswered Derek? The reality is without a clear set of conditions in channeling those funds then the project was pointless. So in summary you had a member with a set of valid concerns about the project, who raised them directly with the board, who kept away from the discussion about the issues around the profitability of the scheme and rather than answer them you choose to take a side swipe in this post? How disappointing.
On a separate note had any of the decisions been taken with the full consultation and approval of the membership then imo the board wouldn’t be in this position. Given the decisions were arrived at by the collective board then they have to be accountable and take full responsibility for any outcomes. That’s possibly now going to be enforced on the board whether they like it or not. On another thread you asked what the Trust was set up for. I believe it was set up to represent the interests of and be a voice for the supporters of the club. Not the ill thought out hysterics of a group of radical despots hèll bent on enforcing their will on the club and it’s future.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Tabasco Kid on January 30, 2023, 21:08:00 pm

and by the way I find the way that you are trying to discredit good people and lifelong genuine Cobblers like Andy Roberts, Keith Buckby and Bob Clarke, to name a few, absolutely disgusting.
Get your facts right. Bob Clarke is not a lifelong fan, he started attending matches after he moved here, having previously lived in Leicester and Swansea.
And I stated previously that whatever you had planned for the land had better be worth the wait. Come on then, what was it? And please dont answer a question with another one.




Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: claretparrot on January 30, 2023, 21:09:44 pm
Tom - I have the utmost respect for you being one of the few people who has put themselves out there to actually do something about these issues. So, please take this as it's meant...

Your battle is won, and your best bet now is to stop engaging with Random. It's getting nobody anywhere and I for one would like to see him pressed to answer factual questions like the ones MCH put forward.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: random1 on January 30, 2023, 21:09:57 pm
Great and good for you for fronting up.

Who approached who with the idea first and how do the Trust Board and Cilldara know each other?

What was the exact detail of the deal?

How was the Trust deal more beneficial for the club than the current one?

What was happening with the rest of the land as part of this deal?

Hi MC,

It was Cildara who approached the Trust, as you know our legal adviser John Morgan is known to some local advisor to Cildara and I believe that the introduction was through this. I would like to remind people that John has been in the legal profession for over 50 years and I'm sure like some of you on here, you have worked with and being in contact with many people in your own industry, this is no different. John DID NOT advise Cildara on anything, ever and certainly not involved in any of their bids or Judicial Review.

The deal was as I said above, I can't really go into too much more detail at this time.

The Trust deal would at the very very least give us the ACV land (valued at around £3m in itself), it gave us a bargaining position with the club and council and hopefully put pressure and scrutiny on the land deal with CDNL to ensure that the stand gets finished.
My personal suspicious is that KT will NOT complete the East stand and all the hogwash of complicated land deals and clauses is a big smokescreen to make excuses and on that basis at least we would have the ACV as a minimum. So far the East stand has not been touched as hasn't anywhere around the ground in 7 years and £45m going through the hands of the club. One case in point - the fans village - when was this last mentioned?  March last year at the open forum - 6 months before it was part of the East stand plans (to get the council on side etc) then its on the West and now nothing........

The other land was with Cildara although we were looking at various options depending how things played out - again remember Cildara nearly brought the club before


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Tom on January 30, 2023, 21:13:00 pm
Tom - I have the utmost respect for you being one of the few people who has put themselves out there to actually do something about these issues. So, please take this as it's meant...

Your battle is won, and your best bet now is to stop engaging with Random. It's getting nobody anywhere and I for one would like to see him pressed to answer factual questions like the ones MCH put forward.

A point well made, and taken on board.

We have all remained quiet - but felt it was prudent to speak up again and let people know that we've taken some action and will take further if needed.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: claretparrot on January 30, 2023, 21:14:46 pm
A point well made, and taken on board.

We have all remained quiet - but felt it was prudent to speak up again and let people know that we've taken some action and will take further if needed.

Agreed mate. Best of luck to you


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on January 30, 2023, 21:18:06 pm

IMHO our hand was forced by KT and WNC.
This line tells me all I need to know. Time for you and everyone else involved to go back to just being fans. Surely you must realise and accept your tenure is well and truly over


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: random1 on January 30, 2023, 21:19:14 pm
Here is a very simple way to look at this.

What do you think would happen if every single member of the trust was given a vote in a simple vote today, should the trust board resign yes or no?

The answer to that (which I think we all know the answer to) shows this board has failed & let down the membership - regardless of anything else, regardless of any opinions you hold.

You are supposed to represent and act on behalf of your members, not the opinions of the board.

Sorry but because we took difficult decisions and went again you and some others doesn't automatically mean we were / are wrong.

The Trust is not a fan club it is there to protect NTFC from it's owner acting in their interests and not of those of the club.

Why should i vote for you?   just saying I was horrible to you isn't enough. I took a lot of abuse from you and others, you sit 5000 miles away and complain about the Trust, again genuine supporters who have given a lifetime to this club, can you really say the same?

I will remind you I was voted Supporter of the Year, Andy Roberts (Chairman) has penned at least 2 books on NTFC (the latest one KT refused to sell in the club shop !) John Morgan has had a season ticket for 40 years, what about you?

I would be very happy for you and others to be co-opted on to the board tomorrow, I want the Trust to be better, to be stronger, to have a say in the future of NTFC, I really do.

You have to put your big boys pants on and say what you will do and what you want. i am a Trust member, I want to know if you will fight for our ACV land or not, simple question Tom


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: random1 on January 30, 2023, 21:21:02 pm
This line tells me all I need to know. Time for you and everyone else involved to go back to just being fans. Surely you must realise and accept your tenure is well and truly over

sorry Stan care to explain, cos I'm lost


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on January 30, 2023, 21:22:25 pm
sorry Stan care to explain, cos I'm lost
Which bit is unclear?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: random1 on January 30, 2023, 21:23:57 pm
Tom - I have the utmost respect for you being one of the few people who has put themselves out there to actually do something about these issues. So, please take this as it's meant...

Your battle is won, and your best bet now is to stop engaging with Random. It's getting nobody anywhere and I for one would like to see him pressed to answer factual questions like the ones MCH put forward.

Claretparrot may i ask for your views on the ACV land and do you think that KT will finish the East stand?

I have answered briefly MCH,

Now why not ask Tom some pressing questions on his plans for the Trust an ACV land -


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Tom on January 30, 2023, 21:26:19 pm
I will remind you I was voted Supporter of the Year, Andy Roberts (Chairman) has penned at least 2 books on NTFC (the latest one KT refused to sell in the club shop !) John Morgan has had a season ticket for 40 years, what about you?

We're back to this again...

As claretparrot said, it's really pointless going back and forward and round and round with you. So I'm going to call it good, nothing more needs to be said.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: random1 on January 30, 2023, 21:26:59 pm
Which bit is unclear?

why does it tell you everything you need to know?

You think it is acceptable for the Chairman to tell lies or mistruths about his conversations with GWS?  and for him to tell them not to deal with the Trust

and it is acceptable for WNC to want the clubs supporters to pay £2m for ACV land whilst an offer from someone in Dubai is accepted at around £335k ?

and you think we are out of order ?????? !!!!!!!!!!!!


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: DavCobb on January 30, 2023, 21:27:51 pm
So the whole plot of land is worth £3m and the ACV is worth £3m. Does that mean Sam Hoskins is worth £10m?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: random1 on January 30, 2023, 21:30:04 pm
We're back to this again...

As claretparrot said, it's really pointless going back and forward and round and round with you. So I'm going to call it good, nothing more needs to be said.


Keep avoiding the question shows your utter contempt for ALL supporters Tom.

What are you thoughts on the ACV land?  

Happy to give it to Dubai for nothing?  or are you getting paid to deliver a new board for KT??


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on January 30, 2023, 21:30:29 pm
why does it tell you everything you need to know? Responsibility & accountability

You think it is acceptable for the Chairman to tell lies or mistruths about his conversations with GWS?  and for him to tell them not to deal with the Trust - If he told lies then no that isnt acceptable. I think most fans would tell them the same thing.

and it is acceptable for WNC to want the clubs supporters to pay £2m for ACV land whilst an offer from someone in Dubai is accepted at around £335k ? - you talk of mistruths  ::). I think the actual truth is an acceptable position for the council to take yes

and you think we are out of order ?????? !!!!!!!!!!!! without a single shadow of doubt


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BackOfTheNet on January 30, 2023, 21:32:11 pm
Time to back away from the keyboard, Derek, you are making yourself look rather silly.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: random1 on January 30, 2023, 21:33:41 pm
So the whole plot of land is worth £3m and the ACV is worth £3m. Does that mean Sam Hoskins is worth £10m?

No DavCobb, The ACV land is 3.61 and is capped and ready to be built on, hence why KT/DB want it to put the biggest of 9 warehouses on

The land bid for 20 acres is £3m as it need remedial work !!  remember certain NTFC aligned councillors were trying to say that the land was actually worthless didn't you Mr Bignall !

Agree doesn't make sense, but none of it does

Super Sammy I would say is at least £15m  ;D ;D


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: random1 on January 30, 2023, 21:35:39 pm
Time to back away from the keyboard, Derek, you are making yourself look rather silly.

well done Mr I'm not allowed out to come to any meetings including open ones or Trust ones but I am the cleverest, bestest NTFC supporter

Very easy to hide behind your keyboard, but won't put his money where his mouth is !!!





Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Tom on January 30, 2023, 21:36:17 pm
Keep avoiding the question shows your utter contempt for ALL supporters Tom.

What are you thoughts on the ACV land?  

Happy to give it to Dubai for nothing?  or are you getting paid to deliver a new board for KT??


The point you're missing Derek, is MY thoughts don't matter, the thoughts of the trusts membership are the ones that do, those are what the board has a duty to represent - something that the trust board should have considered, and then we would not be in this situation.

The reason for everything we've done is your behavior, it's truly that simple, and you continue to prove our point so do please keep going, keep digging.

And just for you Derek, just to "prove" I've not appeared recently to spoil your little party, I know I know, only shortlisted - so far inferior to supreme victory & clearly not a "true fan"

https://i.imgur.com/kQtpc6O.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/kQtpc6O.jpg)

You can go ahead and not reply Derek, just answer the questions that people have, your mud slinging isn't working.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: random1 on January 30, 2023, 21:37:29 pm
sorry got to go and watch Silent Witness with the missus - already in the dog house answering to you lot !!!

Have a nice evening everyone

And good afternoon to Tom in sunny Tuscan


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: MCHammer on January 30, 2023, 21:38:36 pm
Hi MC,

It was Cildara who approached the Trust, as you know our legal adviser John Morgan is known to some local advisor to Cildara and I believe that the introduction was through this. I would like to remind people that John has been in the legal profession for over 50 years and I'm sure like some of you on here, you have worked with and being in contact with many people in your own industry, this is no different. John DID NOT advise Cildara on anything, ever and certainly not involved in any of their bids or Judicial Review.

The deal was as I said above, I can't really go into too much more detail at this time.

The Trust deal would at the very very least give us the ACV land (valued at around £3m in itself), it gave us a bargaining position with the club and council and hopefully put pressure and scrutiny on the land deal with CDNL to ensure that the stand gets finished.
My personal suspicious is that KT will NOT complete the East stand and all the hogwash of complicated land deals and clauses is a big smokescreen to make excuses and on that basis at least we would have the ACV as a minimum. So far the East stand has not been touched as hasn't anywhere around the ground in 7 years and £45m going through the hands of the club. One case in point - the fans village - when was this last mentioned?  March last year at the open forum - 6 months before it was part of the East stand plans (to get the council on side etc) then its on the West and now nothing........

The other land was with Cildara although we were looking at various options depending how things played out - again remember Cildara nearly brought the club before

I'm confused by those responses I'm afraid.

We know for a fact that JM shared information with Cilldara regarding previous issues the Trust had with the council as was confirmed on Radio Northampton.  What was that?  To state he did not advise them on anything ever is simply not true.  

Re the deal there is nothing stopping you from going into more detail now the agreement is broken.  Cilldara have gone public.

What I'm really looking for here is to understand what the deal looked like.  Who was paying for the land?  What was the split of ACV and dev land.  What control if any would the Tust have ov er what was built on the dev land.  What the Trust plans were for the ACV land and how any development was going to be achieved with an existing leaseholder.  I think it's all fair questions.

I don't understand at all how the Trust geting the ACV and Cilldara the development land would have benefitted the football club more than the current deal.  You would have no pressure to exert on the owners to complete the East Stand as they clearly aren't doing that without any enabling funds from development.  All you would have done is create an impossible situation for the owners leading to no stand completion and the club heavily in debt to it's owners with no sign of repayment likely destabalising the football club.

So again I ask how was your deal better for the football club?

Again I would ask if the dev land went to Cilldara how in any way was that beneficial to the club?  What influence if any would the Trust have on the use of that land as my understanding is Cilldara want to remediate and build warehouses the same as the owners do.  They are a business not a charity and my fear is they were simply using the Trust and ACV as another option to get the land.

Another question is regarding the agreement of first refusal on any future sale of the ACV land to a developer like Cildara.  How does that align with the Trusts vision of this land benfitting the football club and is that something your membership should have been involved in before it was agreed?  Before you say that's why you pulled out of the deal you pulled out because of the pricing method for purchase not them having first refusal.    



Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Tabasco Kid on January 30, 2023, 21:46:51 pm
So he answers everybodys posts apart from mine?
I dont think that he likes me.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BackOfTheNet on January 30, 2023, 22:10:38 pm
well done Mr I'm not allowed out to come to any meetings including open ones or Trust ones but I am the cleverest, bestest NTFC supporter

Very easy to hide behind your keyboard, but won't put his money where his mouth is !!!



Yes, this has come from John Morgan's bizarre cataloguing of things I've said dating back to the Park Inn meeting the Trust held years ago.

I had zero interest in attending but asked on here what had been said. I made a facetious comment about being too busy fixing my rabbit hutch to attend (which is genuinely what I was doing at the time). Then, what must it be, 5 or 6 years later John brings this up again on Facebook, along with something equally bizarre that he'd imagined about me being unable to back my car off the drive to attend a club open forum (what I'd actually said was I was sitting in my car on my dad's drive, waiting for him to get in when I looked at my phone and saw the event had been cancelled due to the Queen's death!)

True, I was unable to attend the rearranged event because of family commitments. Shoot me.

I also turned down John's kind invitation to attend the Trust's next board meeting. Not being of the masochistic persuasion I saw little attraction in going into a meeting to be a lone voice against a group of people that had been thoroughly unpleasant to anyone disagreeing with them.

I did, however, quite literally put my money where my mouth is and offered to fund the rental of a public room if the Trust were preoared to hold a public forum of their own. Oddly enough, they didn't take me up on the offer.

Still, let's not let that or the small matter of me attending numerous other open forums on the past distract you from a good bit of twisted narrative. Let's just paint me as some sort of emasculated coward in the hope it somehow discredits my views.

I stand by my advice to you earlier in the evening.

Edit: For the record,  here is where I "put my money where my mouth is":
https://m.facebook.com/groups/2214937289/permalink/10160316964952290/?comment_id=10160317031462290 (https://m.facebook.com/groups/2214937289/permalink/10160316964952290/?comment_id=10160317031462290)


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: singcobb on January 30, 2023, 22:22:31 pm
well done Mr I'm not allowed out to come to any meetings including open ones or Trust ones but I am the cleverest, bestest NTFC supporter

Very easy to hide behind your keyboard, but won't put his money where his mouth is !!!


Yet again you have made yourself look very foolish by insulting people.
Retorts like that generally indicate an argument lost.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Ragdoll Cobbler on January 30, 2023, 22:23:24 pm
well done Mr I'm not allowed out to come to any meetings including open ones or Trust ones but I am the cleverest, bestest NTFC supporter

Very easy to hide behind your keyboard, but won't put his money where his mouth is !!!


The trust are supposed to represent your trust members, yet you continue to act like an absolute ****!

How many trust members attended that last meeting with KT which was open to all? Not one!

Read the room fella, your irrelevant...
 
Time for some fresh ideas and some actual diversity on the new forward thinking trust board.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Vince Planner on January 30, 2023, 22:29:53 pm
I’d lost trust in the Trust a long time ago. Wouldn’t it be better for Tom and Co to form a new Supporters Trust, free of the tarnish of recent years?  Let the current Trust die and start a new one.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BackOfTheNet on January 30, 2023, 22:35:39 pm
I’d lost trust in the Trust a long time ago. Wouldn’t it be better for Tom and Co to form a new Supporters Trust, free of the tarnish of recent years?  Let the current Trust die and start a new one.

Personally, I'd say no. From a practical perspective all the admin is in place for the current organisation and doing all that again would be pretty wasteful. Plus they hold all the membership details and you wouldn't want to start from scratch there. 

On top of all that, there is genuine history there with them being the very first supporters trust, and that really should be something we can be proud of. The problem isn't the organisation, it's the people running it.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: MCHammer on January 30, 2023, 23:00:06 pm
Personally, I'd say no. From a practical perspective all the admin is in place for the current organisation and doing all that again would be pretty wasteful. Plus they hold all the membership details and you wouldn't want to start from scratch there. 

On top of all that, there is genuine history there with them being the very first supporters trust, and that really should be something we can be proud of. The problem isn't the organisation, it's the people running it.

I agree completely.

I'm astounded by the reaction of the Board members who even now still seem to feel like they have done nothing wrong.  That in itself tells you all you need to know about them and why they, not the organisation, are not fit for purpose.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on January 30, 2023, 23:34:19 pm
I hope they hang their heads in shame. Just please go for it Tom. Give us as members and supporters a real supporters Trust.


FFS. How embarrassed, SHOULD they feel.

I would genuinely love to post something more erudite. Something more eloquent. But I have fought this shít for years now. Hopefully this is the end of them.

GIVE US BACK OUR TRUST



Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Risdene on January 31, 2023, 05:32:08 am
My ten friends and I have all supported OUR club for over 50 years, all attended the meeting at the Exeter rooms, all have financially supported the club in a small way, all have not got involved in the microscopic discussions on the redevelopment but! passionately want the East Stand built NOW.

All we ask is for OUR trust to be democratic and allow ALL the membership to decide the future direction of the organisation and not by 6 people in a bunker!!!!!


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Alfred on January 31, 2023, 06:11:04 am
The thing I find most bizarre is that The Random1 and his mates can tell us all KTs plans and what him and Dave will / wont do.

But cant / wont even explain their own plans.

Is it any wonder its ended up like this.

I dont know any of them but on the basis some long serving and loyal NTFC employees who work with KT on a daily basis do then thats good enough for me.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: itsme on January 31, 2023, 07:00:44 am
https://twitter.com/JakeSharpeBBC/status/1620126266023366657

This is a disgrace I've said it before the trust isn't fit for purpose shame we as a fan base can't decide to disband them


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest2995 on January 31, 2023, 07:20:51 am
It is easy to be critical and fire shots from a distance at people that are only trying to act in the interest of the club ….
However , the Trust are not representative of the supporters in general and fail to act in a democratic manner . The whole thing needs restructuring and repackaging .
As for this sorry episode , i am afraid it’s amateurish and deceitful at best . The committee on the vicar of dibley comes to mind .
My worry is what happens to the club when the board get their planning permission , a token stand is built to keep everyone quiet and then , once the money is made they lose interest and no one wants to buy it because no investment is associated with it .
I don’t blame the board for making money out the land and i don’t blame the council for not particularly supporting the club . But where does that leave my football club ?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: FezNTFC on January 31, 2023, 07:22:49 am
This is a disgrace I've said it before the trust isn't fit for purpose shame we as a fan base can't decide to disband them
You can decide to get rid of the people that run it though. Democratically.

I'm surprised some people seem to just want to cast the Trust off entirely and disband it, as if the previous groundbreaking work the Trust has done is now irrelevant.

It's only finished if people have a stubborn attitude towards it. Eventually it will have new board members/leadership ect and people have to be willing to allow that board a clean slate.

AGM is on February 23, and people can stand for the board and hold elections then. Or someone can call an EGM specifically on this issue.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Wakey Cobbler on January 31, 2023, 07:41:46 am
Agree with Fez. We will need a fully functioning Trust.

If the JR goes the way Cilldara thinks it will, the club is going to be in a very precarious position. The owners might just upsticks and leave and if they do, we are seriously looking at the end. I'm not sure I'd be happy with watching AFC Northampton due to the actions of some. When the dust settles, the whole thing needs looking at, including how so few could make so many decisions on behalf of the supporter base.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on January 31, 2023, 07:55:32 am
The JR isn't going to award the land to Cilldara. If it goes against the council they have to re run the process. Unless Cilldara come in with an obscene amount of money compared to what KT and DB are willing to pay, the club owning the land and it being for the benefit of the club and community (despite what some people think) will still win out over a purely one off financial injection.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Monkey on January 31, 2023, 08:02:22 am
The thing I find most bizarre is that The Random1 and his mates can tell us all KTs plans and what him and Dave will / wont do.

But cant / wont even explain their own plans.

Is it any wonder its ended up like this.

I dont know any of them but on the basis some long serving and loyal NTFC employees who work with KT on a daily basis do then thats good enough for me.


They've consistently berated KTs lack of communication, unwillingness to listen/engage with the fanbase and inability to get a job done. How ironic.
All the trust have done for me now is to completely understand why the club want nothing to do with them. We need a more forward thinking board who are able to re-engage with the club and work towards a common goal.
KT/DB do not want to fail, they don't want to see the club collapse... but of course they want to have a financially viable business, and a football club in it's own right is never going to be that - anyone thinking otherwise is deluded. That will be that same for any owner and looking around the league at the moment, the trust and their supporters need to be careful for what they wish for. The club needs sustainability and a foundation to build on, not a new owner on a vanity or passion project.



Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on January 31, 2023, 08:25:12 am
You can decide to get rid of the people that run it though. Democratically.

I'm surprised some people seem to just want to cast the Trust off entirely and disband it, as if the previous groundbreaking work the Trust has done is now irrelevant.

It's only finished if people have a stubborn attitude towards it. Eventually it will have new board members/leadership ect and people have to be willing to allow that board a clean slate.

AGM is on February 23, and people can stand for the board and hold elections then. Or someone can call an EGM specifically on this issue.

Fez, it is very hard to be constructive, when the only line that fits is “I/we told you so”. There has been so many attempts to head something like this off at the pass over the last few years, that it is nigh on impossible to put this down to a mere misguided accident. I hold no malice towards the main body of the Trust. But it has been clear to all that they have been the obvious recipients of crass and inappropriate advice. You’ve got to know what you are taking on. And there was a wealth of knowledge discarded in order to reach this end.

Nobody in their right mind wants to see the Trust disbanded. But it should not need a standard AGM and in fighting to correct this. Any of the current board who stand for re-election need to examine very closely their motivation for doing so. Not because they are not genuine supporters. Or because they meant any malice. Although I do question some of boards members, and hangers on motivation. But they should stand down for a new board to be assembled, one that the club can’t point a finger out for anything. Have a fresh vote on some key policies. Start inviting representatives from the club to meetings. Forging a new start.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: DavCobb on January 31, 2023, 08:37:40 am
It is easy to be critical and fire shots from a distance at people that are only trying to act in the interest of the club ….
However , the Trust are not representative of the supporters in general and fail to act in a democratic manner . The whole thing needs restructuring and repackaging .
As for this sorry episode , i am afraid it’s amateurish and deceitful at best . The committee on the vicar of dibley comes to mind .
My worry is what happens to the club when the board get their planning permission , a token stand is built to keep everyone quiet and then , once the money is made they lose interest and no one wants to buy it because no investment is associated with it .
I don’t blame the board for making money out the land and i don’t blame the council for not particularly supporting the club . But where does that leave my football club ?

But you always allude that there is no money available on the playing side. I thought you’d welcome a change.
I wouldn’t worry, life’s too short.

I’d rather the owners get every penny and disappear (if that transpires) then that rag tag bunch of renegades trying to play Monopoly. If they are that well regarded and connected I’m sure they’ll be a queue of new potential owners.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Battery Man on January 31, 2023, 08:39:59 am
Fez, it is very hard to be constructive, when the only line that fits is “I/we told you so”. There has been so many attempts to head something like this off at the pass over the last few years, that it is nigh on impossible to put this down to a mere misguided accident. I hold no malice towards the main body of the Trust. But it has been clear to all that they have been the obvious recipients of crass and inappropriate advice. You’ve got to know what you are taking on. And there was a wealth of knowledge discarded in order to reach this end.

Nobody in their right mind wants to see the Trust disbanded. But it should not need a standard AGM and in fighting to correct this. Any of the current board who stand for re-election need to examine very closely their motivation for doing so. Not because they are not genuine supporters. Or because they meant any malice. Although I do question some of boards members, and hangers on motivation. But they should stand down for a new board to be assembled, one that the club can’t point a finger out for anything. Have a fresh vote on some key policies. Start inviting representatives from the club to meetings. Forging a new start.

I think the current board need to stand down as a group, what they have done to the faith in an organisation badly needed at this level of football, be it misguided or not is beyond excusable. Yes many people are not keen on the way KT and DB do business but to totally alienate them because you feel that they are not doing what you want as quickly as you want is not the best way forward for the fans or the club. The main aim of the trust should be to support and progress the views of the supporters to the benefit of the club, to attack, constantly the owners for not building a stand so much that you will get into bed with their challengers for the land smacks of childishness. We need a trust board that can reengage with KT. If we took the situation of the stand and the land out of the equation it appears that KT's ideas are beginning to move the club forward on the field. We have some good long term signings, management team for the first time in a long time look to be here for the long haul and it looks quite positive. If we can have a trust board that can work with the club, maybe we can get the stand and some other things moving forward. At least if we have a board that can engage with the club if KT and DB decide to go without building the stand , then at least we may be in a position to help broker a good deal for a new owner with them.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: FezNTFC on January 31, 2023, 17:09:35 pm
Fez, it is very hard to be constructive, when the only line that fits is “I/we told you so”. There has been so many attempts to head something like this off at the pass over the last few years, that it is nigh on impossible to put this down to a mere misguided accident. I hold no malice towards the main body of the Trust. But it has been clear to all that they have been the obvious recipients of crass and inappropriate advice. You’ve got to know what you are taking on. And there was a wealth of knowledge discarded in order to reach this end.

Nobody in their right mind wants to see the Trust disbanded. But it should not need a standard AGM and in fighting to correct this. Any of the current board who stand for re-election need to examine very closely their motivation for doing so. Not because they are not genuine supporters. Or because they meant any malice. Although I do question some of boards members, and hangers on motivation. But they should stand down for a new board to be assembled, one that the club can’t point a finger out for anything. Have a fresh vote on some key policies. Start inviting representatives from the club to meetings. Forging a new start.
Not really sure much of this was relevant to what I was posting to be honest mate. I was merely addressing the people who think that the Trust should be disbanded in its entirety and pointing out that there's a route towards achieving a new Trust and new vision within the existing parameters, rather than just discarding the whole thing because one version of it has proved unsatisfactory to a number of fans.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: everbrite on January 31, 2023, 17:35:54 pm
Not really sure much of this was relevant to what I was posting to be honest mate. I was merely addressing the people who think that the Trust should be disbanded in its entirety and pointing out that there's a route towards achieving a new Trust and new vision within the existing parameters, rather than just discarding the whole thing because one version of it has proved unsatisfactory to a number of fans.
 of the Club

The trust should be regarded as trustees of the Club, in times of crisis they are our fall back to sustain and rally supporters. Folly to do away with the Trust. Clearly at the moment it needs new blood so roll on the upcoming AGM.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on January 31, 2023, 18:49:31 pm
Not really sure much of this was relevant to what I was posting to be honest mate. I was merely addressing the people who think that the Trust should be disbanded in its entirety and pointing out that there's a route towards achieving a new Trust and new vision within the existing parameters, rather than just discarding the whole thing because one version of it has proved unsatisfactory to a number of fans.


It’s completely relevant. I don’t agree that waiting for an AGM is appropriate. Unless of course the board intends to do the decent thing and walk away.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Zen Master on January 31, 2023, 18:57:30 pm
EGM


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Carton Lid on January 31, 2023, 19:05:13 pm
EGM
I think you will find the it would be quicker with the AGM on 23rd Feb than calling an EGM


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Zen Master on January 31, 2023, 19:28:41 pm
AGM


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: FezNTFC on January 31, 2023, 19:54:14 pm
It’s completely relevant. I don’t agree that waiting for an AGM is appropriate. Unless of course the board intends to do the decent thing and walk away.
Where in my original post did I state that the AGM was the more appropriate way to deal with the matter?  ???

I posted, factually, that there are two different ways it can be done.

You seem to be arguing against an opinion I haven't even expressed yet  ;D


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on January 31, 2023, 19:59:02 pm
Where in my original post did I state that the AGM was the more appropriate way to deal with the matter?  ???

I posted, factually, that there are two different ways it can be done.

You seem to be arguing against an opinion I haven't even expressed yet  ;D

You stated that the democratic process allowed for change. Other than others being put up for a position. I’m not sure how else that can happen. It’s not going to happen outside of an AGM is it.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: FezNTFC on January 31, 2023, 20:34:44 pm
You stated that the democratic process allowed for change. Other than others being put up for a position. I’m not sure how else that can happen. It’s not going to happen outside of an AGM is it.
Are you saying that there isn't a democratic process for change outside the AGM. Or are you arguing that it's just convoluted?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Ragdoll Cobbler on January 31, 2023, 21:26:31 pm
Trust email just sent to it's members...

Supporters Trust AGM - 23 February 2023

ntfctrust1992@gmail.com
 
Dear Member
 
Annual General Meeting
 
Please find enclosed formal notice of our 2022 Annual General Meeting incorporating a form of proxy and a nomination form for election to the Board of NTFC Supporters Ltd (Northampton Town Supporters Trust).
 
The Annual General Meeting of NTFC Supporters Ltd (Northampton Town Supporters Trust) will take place on Thursday 23 February at 7.30pm.
 
The Trust board has vacancies this year and we really need more of our membership to become involved.
 
Please consider if you could become a board member and take the Trust towards its next 30 years. If you would like more information, please get in touch with us.
 
We are also urging members to ‘opt in’ their email address so that it is GDPR compliant, enabling the Trust to communicate more easily, quickly, and cheaply.
 
We will only email you on a monthly basis with news and offers from the Trust, your email will not be shared more widely.
 
If you are not already on our email database please email ntfctrust1992@gmail.com with ‘opt in’.
 
We look forward to you being able to join us on 23 February.
 
Kind regards,
 
J Morgan
 
John Morgan
Acting Secretary
NTFC Supporters Ltd


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on February 01, 2023, 09:02:43 am
Are you saying that there isn't a democratic process for change outside the AGM. Or are you arguing that it's just convoluted?

I’m assuming that if they want to stay on, the options outside of the AGM are very limited. The current board hold all of the cards if they insist on staying, external to an AGM options are limited.

There absolutely no chance of forming a no confidence vote. Well over 50% of the membership either don’t care or are simply not contactable. At the moment, the board appears (I can only assume) either ambivalent, or oblivious to the impact of their actions.

I agree with you about not wanting to discard the good work that has gone before. But this board beyond the land and stand issues, hasn’t shown an appetite for any other Trust business. It is more akin to a specific working party, than it is a supporters trust


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: therealpattcobb on February 02, 2023, 07:46:38 am
If someone could put this issue in layman's terms for me I would be grateful. I sort of know what an ACV (often applied to pubs etc yeh?).

Who are Cilldara? Why doesn't the club's bid have an ACV? Or does it?




Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on February 02, 2023, 08:09:26 am
If someone could put this issue in layman's terms for me I would be grateful. I sort of know what an ACV (often applied to pubs etc yeh?).

Who are Cilldara? Why doesn't the club's bid have an ACV? Or does it?

An ACV is designed to protect land / buildings that are valuable to the community. You know that bit of fenced off running track that was widely used by the community previously, thats what the Trust are trying to protect Forget the fact that the athletics club now have a much better facility.

The club see the total land of being a benefit to the club as the money from any selling of land or development will go back into the club. The Trust think the owners are a bunch of charlatans who will pocket the money and disappear off into a middle eastern sunset.

Cilldara are a development company who build warehouses. They have no connection to the club. The Trust think that Cilldara building warehouses on the same land (with the exception of a 50m wide strip) is better for the community than the owners of the club building warehouses. Apologies the Trust also want to leave some of it tarmaced for a lorry park with no facilities that will raise more money than the ones with facilities that are right next to the M1.

The Trust got into bed secretly with Cilldara who are also taking the council to court to try to get the land, and tried to hide it. Cilldara then added themselves to the 'enemy' list by trying to run their business and saw an opportunity against a small band of men.

Now the Trust are up a creek without a paddle but rather than pulling the boat over to the side and letting someone onto the boat who has a paddle they are instead flapping about in the water.

For clarity, this may contain bias. for additional clarity 'trust' doesnt mean the trust, it means 2-3 people using the trust for their own personal agenda against the owners. for even more clarity, that last bit of clarity may also contain bias.

I think thats it in laymans terms  8)


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: everbrite on February 02, 2023, 09:34:17 am
An ACV is designed to protect land / buildings that are valuable to the community. You know that bit of fenced off running track that was widely used by the community previously, thats what the Trust are trying to protect Forget the fact that the athletics club now have a much better facility.

The club see the total land of being a benefit to the club as the money from any selling of land or development will go back into the club. The Trust think the owners are a bunch of charlatans who will pocket the money and disappear off into a middle eastern sunset.

Cilldara are a development company who build warehouses. They have no connection to the club. The Trust think that Cilldara building warehouses on the same land (with the exception of a 50m wide strip) is better for the community than the owners of the club building warehouses. Apologies the Trust also want to leave some of it tarmaced for a lorry park with no facilities that will raise more money than the ones with facilities that are right next to the M1.

The Trust got into bed secretly with Cilldara who are also taking the council to court to try to get the land, and tried to hide it. Cilldara then added themselves to the 'enemy' list by trying to run their business and saw an opportunity against a small band of men.

Now the Trust are up a creek without a paddle but rather than pulling the boat over to the side and letting someone onto the boat who has a paddle they are instead flapping about in the water.

For clarity, this may contain bias. for additional clarity 'trust' doesnt mean the trust, it means 2-3 people using the trust for their own personal agenda against the owners. for even more clarity, that last bit of clarity may also contain bias.

I think thats it in laymans terms  8)

Good ol’ Stan. For me it was good but tailed off with a tiny bit of bias?  Good read all the same!


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on February 02, 2023, 10:08:25 am
An ACV is designed to protect land / buildings that are valuable to the community. You know that bit of fenced off running track that was widely used by the community previously, thats what the Trust are trying to protect Forget the fact that the athletics club now have a much better facility.

The club see the total land of being a benefit to the club as the money from any selling of land or development will go back into the club. The Trust think the owners are a bunch of charlatans who will pocket the money and disappear off into a middle eastern sunset.

Cilldara are a development company who build warehouses. They have no connection to the club. The Trust think that Cilldara building warehouses on the same land (with the exception of a 50m wide strip) is better for the community than the owners of the club building warehouses. Apologies the Trust also want to leave some of it tarmaced for a lorry park with no facilities that will raise more money than the ones with facilities that are right next to the M1.

The Trust got into bed secretly with Cilldara who are also taking the council to court to try to get the land, and tried to hide it. Cilldara then added themselves to the 'enemy' list by trying to run their business and saw an opportunity against a small band of men.

Now the Trust are up a creek without a paddle but rather than pulling the boat over to the side and letting someone onto the boat who has a paddle they are instead flapping about in the water.

For clarity, this may contain bias. for additional clarity 'trust' doesnt mean the trust, it means 2-3 people using the trust for their own personal agenda against the owners. for even more clarity, that last bit of clarity may also contain bias.

I think thats it in laymans terms  8)

In a nutshell.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BackOfTheNet on February 02, 2023, 10:28:18 am
If someone could put this issue in layman's terms for me I would be grateful. I sort of know what an ACV (often applied to pubs etc yeh?).

Who are Cilldara? Why doesn't the club's bid have an ACV? Or does it?






Shall I have a go?

The ACV was taken out by the Trust to protect the stadium from being redeveloped at any point. I think we all thought that was a good thing at the time, but the area covered by it also included the athletics track.

ACVs are a bit of a paper tiger really. They don't provide any solid protection, they just say that if at any point the owner of the asset wants to dispose of it then the holder of the ACV essentially gets a period of time in which they have first refusal. If they indicate that they do want to make a bid then it triggers a further period of time in which they can come up with a bid.

In the case of Sixfields, on the very last day of this period the Trust announced they were bidding £3m for the land. Not just the area of the athletics track covered by the ACV, but the whole lot right up to the the gravel car park and including the hard surface car park between the tip and the bowling alley.

Obviously the Trust don't have £3m so the money had come from elsewhere.

In parallel to all this, a land remediation/development company called Cildara were bidding against the club for the same land, minus the ACV part. They actually bid more per acre than the club, but the council opted to accept the club's bid rather than Cildara's, largely I suspect because the club say they will complete the East Stand if they win.

Cildara didn't like this and launched a legal challenge, not so much to the decision as the process that the council followed to reach that decision. This process is still on going. If Cildara win, the whole bidding process restarts. It's being played out on semantics, really. The council can still choose the club's bid, they will just have to be a bit more watertight in how they reach that decision.

This week the Trust announced that their bid had fallen through because their partner, who they had refused to name, was being unreasonable in some of the terms they were laying down, as were the council.

On the back of this, and presumably out of spite, Cildara then announced that they had been the Trust's partner in this bid. I guess launching a further bid in partnership with the Trust gave them a degree of credibility ("hey, look, we might not have any link to the club but the supporters trust are backing us so we can't be all bad") and in return for their endorsement Cildara were going to "give" them the ACV land (although it appears to be in the detail of how exactly this was going to work that the deal fell through)

So the Trust have been working with the very same third party that are bidding against the club and are currently blocking the sale of the land to the club with a legal challenge. I'll leave you to decide what you think about this.

For the record, I don't disagree with a word of Stan's account, I just thought I'd provide a slant with less bias. ;D

Edit: it's probably also worth mentioning that the ACV bolt has now been well and truly shot. Now the Trust have withdrawn their bid the ACV has expired and would need to be reapplied for and the council have indicated that they won't look favourably on any new application based upon how long the athletics track has stood derelict. This also means the stadium itself is no longer covered by an ACV.



Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 02, 2023, 11:48:15 am
As a backdrop to this I would include the mission statement of the Trust. The question members need to ask is have the board conducted themselves in accordance with the mission statement and adhered to the  standards they have identified as part of their commitment to the members.

MISSION STATEMENT NTFC SUPPORTERS LTD

To be open, democratic and inclusive in considering the needs and ideas of supporters
To promote and strengthen the bonds between NTFC, its supporters and the wider community
To safeguard a professional Football League club in Northampton
Our commitment to our members

We commit to being democratic, open, inclusive and accountable to the membership. Annual elections will be held for membership of the NTFC Supporters Limited Board - a third of the posts being open to election each year.

The position of Supporters’ Representative on the board of NTFC will be open to election of any NTFC Supporters Limited board member.

To encourage at least two NTFC Supporters Limited members, who are not board members, and representation of other NTFC supporters groups who are in sympathy with our aims and objectives, to attend regular meetings of the board.

Through effective and efficient governance and financial management we commit to sound management of members’ investment on a not-for profit basis. Our accounts are annually submitted for an Independent Reporting Accountant's Report.

Our commitment to NTFC and football in Northampton

We commit to supporting the aims and objectives of NTFC where, in the opinion of the board, these are not in direct conflict with the needs and best interests of supporters.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3574 on February 02, 2023, 12:01:22 pm
As a backdrop to this I would include the mission statement of the Trust. The question members need to ask is have the board conducted themselves in accordance with the mission statement and adhered to the  standards they have identified as part of their commitment to the members.

MISSION STATEMENT NTFC SUPPORTERS LTD

To be open, democratic and inclusive in considering the needs and ideas of supporters
To promote and strengthen the bonds between NTFC, its supporters and the wider community
To safeguard a professional Football League club in Northampton
Our commitment to our members

We commit to being democratic, open, inclusive and accountable to the membership. Annual elections will be held for membership of the NTFC Supporters Limited Board - a third of the posts being open to election each year.

The position of Supporters’ Representative on the board of NTFC will be open to election of any NTFC Supporters Limited board member.

To encourage at least two NTFC Supporters Limited members, who are not board members, and representation of other NTFC supporters groups who are in sympathy with our aims and objectives, to attend regular meetings of the board.

Through effective and efficient governance and financial management we commit to sound management of members’ investment on a not-for profit basis. Our accounts are annually submitted for an Independent Reporting Accountant's Report.

Our commitment to NTFC and football in Northampton

We commit to supporting the aims and objectives of NTFC where, in the opinion of the board, these are not in direct conflict with the needs and best interests of supporters.
This needs looking at


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on February 02, 2023, 12:08:25 pm
This needs looking at
So does this
Quote
To be open, democratic and inclusive in considering the needs and ideas of supporters
and this
Quote
To promote and strengthen the bonds between NTFC, its supporters and the wider community


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3574 on February 02, 2023, 12:09:55 pm
So does thisand this

I agree with you Stan


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on February 02, 2023, 12:11:55 pm

To safeguard a professional Football League club in Northampton

Also why are the supporters Trust belittling the club by only ensuring a Football League Club?! Surely if they were real supporters they would have ambitions to be a Premier League club, not just languishing in the football league for the rest of time. Shows how little they actually think of Northampton Town FC


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: MCHammer on February 02, 2023, 12:12:59 pm
MISSION STATEMENT NTFC SUPPORTERS LTD

To be open, democratic and inclusive in considering the needs and ideas of supporters
To promote and strengthen the bonds between NTFC, its supporters and the wider community
To safeguard a professional Football League club in Northampton

Just looking at these three statements in isolation.  It's almost like they have tried to do the exact opposite.  I'm sure they will claim different but I could probably list 4/5 examples of the top of my head where they have broken this mission statement over the last few years....in fact just this week.  


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: MCHammer on February 02, 2023, 12:23:06 pm
In parallel to all this, a land remediation/development company called Cildara were bidding against the club for the same land, minus the ACV part. They actually bid more per acre than the club, but the council opted to accept the club's bid rather than Cildara's, largely I suspect because the club say they will complete the East Stand if they win.

On this point I think it's probably worth mentioning the leasehold situation over ALL of the land both Running track ACV and the development land.

The club are in control of long term leases (100 year+) over all this land.  So in essence anyone purchasing the freehold to any of this land would have to either legally find a way to break the existing leases or work with and obtain approval from the football club in order to do anything at all with the land.

While completion of the East Stand was a major positive of the deal from a council perspective legally the ownership of these leases was far more important in the justifciation for their decision.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: MCHammer on February 02, 2023, 12:31:09 pm
Statement from the Trust in response to the calls for the Board to step down.

https://www.ntfctrust.co.uk/news/article/trust-response-to-a-call-for-the-board-to-step-down (https://www.ntfctrust.co.uk/news/article/trust-response-to-a-call-for-the-board-to-step-down)


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: MCHammer on February 02, 2023, 12:37:11 pm
Also worth reading this Tweet from a board member yesterday...

https://twitter.com/KB127/status/1620876230865342466 (https://twitter.com/KB127/status/1620876230865342466)

"We only backed obtaining the ACV land for club benefit, frankly as long as it was legal I didn't care who was helping us to do so. Yes it went wrong, but we walked away as soon as it turned into a worse deal for the club. I agree with every word of that post, what's their goal?"

The post referred to is a screenshot of Randoms lengthy rant on here the other day.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on February 02, 2023, 13:01:12 pm
Also worth reading this Tweet from a board member yesterday...

https://twitter.com/KB127/status/1620876230865342466 (https://twitter.com/KB127/status/1620876230865342466)

"We only backed obtaining the ACV land for club benefit, frankly as long as it was legal I didn't care who was helping us to do so. Yes it went wrong, but we walked away as soon as it turned into a worse deal for the club. I agree with every word of that post, what's their goal?"

The post referred to is a screenshot of Randoms lengthy rant on here the other day.
And as long as it wasnt the people who actually own the club.

Walked away makes it sound much more magnanimous than the statement from Cilldara, and isnt it telling that I believe a third parties version of the truth over the group that are supposed to be protecting the club.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: random1 on February 02, 2023, 13:24:34 pm
They've consistently berated KTs lack of communication, unwillingness to listen/engage with the fanbase and inability to get a job done. How ironic.
All the trust have done for me now is to completely understand why the club want nothing to do with them. We need a more forward thinking board who are able to re-engage with the club and work towards a common goal.
KT/DB do not want to fail, they don't want to see the club collapse... but of course they want to have a financially viable business, and a football club in it's own right is never going to be that - anyone thinking otherwise is deluded. That will be that same for any owner and looking around the league at the moment, the trust and their supporters need to be careful for what they wish for. The club needs sustainability and a foundation to build on, not a new owner on a vanity or passion project.



We could not disclose much at the time due to 1. KT picking up the phone and doing his best to destroy it just like he did with GWS. 2. The whole bid process was still ongoing and we wanted to have some clearer for fans

But again we have received a non-stop tirade of abuse and bias fo trying to protect the running track from being built on with warehouse and no sporting benefit as previously promised

I WOULD LIKE TO REMIND PEOPLE AGAIN  1. KT SOLD THE CLUB FOR £6.68M AND DIDNT TELL YOU AND 2. CILDARA & KT/DB WERE IN DISCUSSIONS FOR 6 MONTHS TO BUY THE CLUB - They didnt tell you.

I am sorry we have tried to explain many many times, we have asked for help and assistance many many many times, at least we took some action - we didn't set behind our keyboards with fake names and moan and moan and moan.

If you weren't moaning you were making excuses as to why you could't get involved like BOTN classics i had to baby sit last min etc etc  i want to get involved but i haven't got the time etc etc



Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on February 02, 2023, 13:31:02 pm
We could not disclose much at the time due to 1. KT picking up the phone and doing his best to destroy it just like he did with GWS. 2. The whole bid process was still ongoing and we wanted to have some clearer for fans

But again we have received a non-stop tirade of abuse and bias fo trying to protect the running track from being built on with warehouse and no sporting benefit as previously promised

I WOULD LIKE TO REMIND PEOPLE AGAIN  1. KT SOLD THE CLUB FOR £6.68M AND DIDNT TELL YOU AND 2. CILDARA & KT/DB WERE IN DISCUSSIONS FOR 6 MONTHS TO BUY THE CLUB - They didnt tell you.

I am sorry we have tried to explain many many times, we have asked for help and assistance many many many times, at least we took some action - we didn't set behind our keyboards with fake names and moan and moan and moan.

If you weren't moaning you were making excuses as to why you could't get involved like BOTN classics i had to baby sit last min etc etc  i want to get involved but i haven't got the time etc etc


Being held to the same levels you berate the club for is a bitch isnt it.
They also didnt consult me over who sells the burgers or runs the shop.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: random1 on February 02, 2023, 13:35:44 pm
And as long as it wasnt the people who actually own the club.

Walked away makes it sound much more magnanimous than the statement from Cilldara, and isnt it telling that I believe a third parties version of the truth over the group that are supposed to be protecting the club.

Again a simple excuse to have a cheapshot - oh anyone but KT

It is not that at all but he is in charge - he is theone who holds all the cards and could have done the stand at almost anytime - he still hasn't

I just someone who believes in Northampton and that we can and should be better. KT doesn't believe in this - only soundbites and little gestures that many fans lap-up

If he was to get on with on - i would be there tomorrow offering to help move us forward -(not that he would want me) but KT has no interest in ANYONE who questions or asking him to do more.

He also did not make any announcements regarding their plans with the 9 warehouses they want to build on land, with the biggest one virtually right up to the back of the East stand

That is what you keyboard warrior should be worried about - look at the plans and you won't need to wonder to hard why he is keeping that quiet

and where is the fans village, the training facilities, the new scoreboard - all announced with grand fanfare, just at the time KT needed to look good to the fans, and then nothing .........

Meanwhile down at the Saints their multi-million pound investment is going ahead - no excuses of high costs, lack of materials, planning problems, etc etc. they just get on with it - why ?  because they love their club and want to be a part of its future

although again nice soundbites re the East stand of " we have the money", "we have a 120 year long lease" and "why would we not build it we are losing income" nothing is happening because ............. ?????????


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on February 02, 2023, 13:38:00 pm
So in simple terms please explain the benefit to the club and fans to Cilldara getting almost all the land compared to KT and DB getting it.
What will the club benefit from KT and DB owning the land?
What will the club benefit from Cilldara / Trust owning the land?

In fact I will help you out with how I see the situation and you tell where I am wrong....
What will the club benefit from KT and DB owning the land? - Somewhere between £0 and millions with a possibility the stand may be finished
What will the club benefit from Cilldara / Trust owning the land? - Somewhere between £0 and £250k and the stand definitely not finished.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: random1 on February 02, 2023, 13:40:04 pm
Being held to the same levels you berate the club for is a bitch isnt it.
They also didnt consult me over who sells the burgers or runs the shop.

trouble is there is a big difference - we are a set-of part time volunteers & lifetime supporters, not spending any money trying to protect NTFC

whilst KT receives expenses (not salary), has £5m annual budget to play with, full time media staff and is trying to profit from our land

But then you are typical of many of here - hide behind a false name and only just appeared in the last few months, we no history and almost every post is a dig at Trust / fans.

So yes i do get annoyed

Put your name where your mouth is


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: DavCobb on February 02, 2023, 13:41:30 pm
Statement from the Trust in response to the calls for the Board to step down.

https://www.ntfctrust.co.uk/news/article/trust-response-to-a-call-for-the-board-to-step-down (https://www.ntfctrust.co.uk/news/article/trust-response-to-a-call-for-the-board-to-step-down)

That’s fair enough. It’s over to those with the time, passion and commitment to make a difference.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on February 02, 2023, 13:46:38 pm
trouble is there is a big difference - we are a set-of part time volunteers & lifetime supporters, not spending any money trying to protect NTFC
How does that stop you being transparent and engaging with the fans?
whilst KT receives expenses (not salary), has £5m annual budget to play with, full time media staff and is trying to profit from our land
The owner of our club profiting from the land. Going to have to show me the negative to that

But then you are typical of many of here - hide behind a false name and only just appeared in the last few months, we no history and almost every post is a dig at Trust / fans.
 Been a fan since mid 80's (all my life). Go as often as I can but never been able to have a season ticket. I also dont live in the town anymore  :o Never had a dig at the fans and havent really at the Trust. Just the very few who are using it to serve their personal agenda

So yes i do get annoyed

Put your name where your mouth is
After what happened to Tom. Im ok thanks


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: MCHammer on February 02, 2023, 13:49:04 pm
We could not disclose much at the time due to 1. KT picking up the phone and doing his best to destroy it just like he did with GWS. 2. The whole bid process was still ongoing and we wanted to have some clearer for fans

More lies and the rest of the post was pure distraction.

You, the Trust Board, chose to sign a legally binding agreement not to disclose any information.  You did so knowing this meant you could not say a single word to your membership till the bid got accepted.

So 1. You are telling me you were worried KT would get on the phone to Cilldara and warn them off?  Really?

2.  More lies.  You couldn't tell anyone anything, legally.  You also knew the reaction it would receive form those fans.

Stop lying and presenting misinformation if you want a worthwhile discussion.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: random1 on February 02, 2023, 13:50:33 pm
So in simple terms please explain the benefit to the club and fans to Cilldara getting almost all the land compared to KT and DB getting it.
What will the club benefit from KT and DB owning the land,?
What will the club benefit from Cilldara / Trust owning the land?

No club benefit for KT & DB owning it - and they want half the running track too to put the biggest warehouse on.  The CEO of NTFC is trying to tell us that this is a good thing because they can pay down their debts of £6m or whatever. Sorry but I don't see that as a benefit UNLESS they say what there plans are for the next 5 years re NTFC and it means that we can now look at the North & South stands, fans village etc etc but they haven't have they

The East stand is a red herring in all this - if they wanted to build it they could have done - they now put in clauses (which they didn't tell you about) that if it is built they hand back the ACV - which might just be the car park - they removed the stand before land - again without telling you

The minimum benefit is that the Trust would have all of the running track (value around £3m?), I agree that deal is very bad for KT but not the football club, remember DC has £7m of debt also owed to him by the football club, he didn't get any - KT would have to run the club as a club - just like most of the other 118 clubs do.

The hope going forward was that a deal could be made to benefit all parties - but the only we could have done that was to have had a stake at the table - which it did

Again it was a very difficult decision, which at the end of the day, was never a foregone conclusion (we has been proved) we truly were trying to get the best deal for NTFC and its supporters

Please all I ask is that you all consider this and think if KT is given free reign to do what he wants, what would they really mean for our football club.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: random1 on February 02, 2023, 13:54:52 pm
More lies and the rest of the post was pure distraction.

You, the Trust Board, chose to sign a legally binding agreement not to disclose any information.  You did so knowing this meant you could not say a single word to your membership till the bid got accepted.

So 1. You are telling me you were worried KT would get on the phone to Cilldara and warn them off?  Really?

2.  More lies.  You couldn't tell anyone anything, legally.  You also knew the reaction it would receive form those fans.

Stop lying and presenting misinformation if you want a worthwhile discussion.

you need to understand what a lie is rather than just using KT's latest buzzword

No idea what KT & WNC would have done with that info - I still have no suspicions now but time will tell

You seem to know it all, so why don't you tell the truth and while you are at, tell us what you know about all the dealings and when you think KT will start doing the East stand


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: random1 on February 02, 2023, 13:55:37 pm
trouble is there is a big difference - we are a set-of part time volunteers & lifetime supporters, not spending any money trying to protect NTFC
How does that stop you being transparent and engaging with the fans?
whilst KT receives expenses (not salary), has £5m annual budget to play with, full time media staff and is trying to profit from our land
The owner of our club profiting from the land. Going to have to show me the negative to that

But then you are typical of many of here - hide behind a false name and only just appeared in the last few months, we no history and almost every post is a dig at Trust / fans.
 Been a fan since mid 80's (all my life). Go as often as I can but never been able to have a season ticket. I also dont live in the town anymore  :o Never had a dig at the fans and havent really at the Trust. Just the very few who are using it to serve their personal agenda

yeah of course and you have only just found this site - how good of you

So yes i do get annoyed

Put your name where your mouth is
After what happened to Tom. Im ok thanks



Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Another Pedj on February 02, 2023, 13:56:57 pm
So reading that Cilldara where giving you £3M to purchase the runnung track. No conditions attached.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on February 02, 2023, 13:57:07 pm
I didnt get the bit about KT having to run the club as a club like the rest. I thought thats what he had been doing? And I'm sure many of the other clubs owe debt to outsiders. We dont.
Who valued the athletics track at £3m?
So you basicallly dined with the devil* to get a seat at the table? Maybe not an anyone but KT approach but isnt far off.

If KT was given free reign to do what he wants, my honest opinion is that he would progress this club. Not to where we all want as I dont think he has the means but certainly to a point that is more attractive to the next owner who can take us to that next level (who will need to be another outside speculator)



*Not calling Cilldara the devil, just using a phrase to highlight a point about someone who isnt linked to the club


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: MCHammer on February 02, 2023, 14:04:08 pm
you need to understand what a lie is rather than just using KT's latest buzzword

No idea what KT & WNC would have done with that info - I still have no suspicions now but time will tell

You seem to know it all, so why don't you tell the truth and while you are at, tell us what you know about all the dealings and when you think KT will start doing the East stand


I fully understand what a lie is which is why I pointed out the ones you just made.  You made two untruthful statements and I pointed out why they were lies.

You've also lied or at best made misleading statements in your subsequent posts since then.

Everything I've ever said on here is the truth as you well know, especially in regard the Trust.

The moment you start answering quetions in an honest, open truthful way about the deal with Cilldara is the moment this discussion makes any progress.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: MCHammer on February 02, 2023, 14:10:51 pm
I didnt get the bit about KT having to run the club as a club like the rest. I thought thats what he had been doing? And I'm sure many of the other clubs owe debt to outsiders. We dont.
Who valued the athletics track at £3m?
So you basicallly dined with the devil* to get a seat at the table? Maybe not an anyone but KT approach but isnt far off.

If KT was given free reign to do what he wants, my honest opinion is that he would progress this club. Not to where we all want as I dont think he has the means but certainly to a point that is more attractive to the next owner who can take us to that next level (who will need to be another outside speculator)

*Not calling Cilldara the devil, just using a phrase to highlight a point about someone who isnt linked to the club

Some really good points here.

The running track land is worth nothing if they don't work with the leaseholders...the football club.

And yes they appear to have done a deal with Cilldara either in full knowledge of the consequences to the owners and by association the club or not considering the consequences at all.  Not sure either of those options isheds them in a good light.  Can't wait to see the answer and whether he answers honestly.

P.S. Don't hold your breath for a reply.  This is the point at which he normally does a runner.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: MCHammer on February 02, 2023, 14:22:40 pm
And as long as it wasnt the people who actually own the club.

Walked away makes it sound much more magnanimous than the statement from Cilldara, and isnt it telling that I believe a third parties version of the truth over the group that are supposed to be protecting the club.

The phrase you highlighted was the one that stood out to me also.

"frankly as long as it was legal I didn't care who was helping us to do so"

Ethical? Moral? Acceptable to the membership you represent?  Irrespective of any damage it could do to the owners/club?

If "as long as it was legal" is your only boundary you might need to take some time to reflect on what your role is and who you represent.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Risdene on February 02, 2023, 14:32:54 pm
Random, I have no problem you posting your opinion (when done politely).

2 points; why did no member of the Trust's board take the opportunity to question our Chairman, like I did, at the Open meeting?

               ; if it was my money I would NOT have built the East Stand until the lease issues were completed and the Judicial Review was announced!


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BackOfTheNet on February 02, 2023, 14:46:24 pm

If you weren't moaning you were making excuses as to why you could't get involved like BOTN classics i had to baby sit last min etc etc  i want to get involved but i haven't got the time etc etc



May I refer you to my earlier response to this particular line of BS:

Yes, this has come from John Morgan's bizarre cataloguing of things I've said dating back to the Park Inn meeting the Trust held years ago.

I had zero interest in attending but asked on here what had been said. I made a facetious comment about being too busy fixing my rabbit hutch to attend (which is genuinely what I was doing at the time). Then, what must it be, 5 or 6 years later John brings this up again on Facebook, along with something equally bizarre that he'd imagined about me being unable to back my car off the drive to attend a club open forum (what I'd actually said was I was sitting in my car on my dad's drive, waiting for him to get in when I looked at my phone and saw the event had been cancelled due to the Queen's death!)

True, I was unable to attend the rearranged event because of family commitments. Shoot me.

I also turned down John's kind invitation to attend the Trust's next board meeting. Not being of the masochistic persuasion I saw little attraction in going into a meeting to be a lone voice against a group of people that had been thoroughly unpleasant to anyone disagreeing with them.

I did, however, quite literally put my money where my mouth is and offered to fund the rental of a public room if the Trust were preoared to hold a public forum of their own. Oddly enough, they didn't take me up on the offer.

Still, let's not let that or the small matter of me attending numerous other open forums on the past distract you from a good bit of twisted narrative. Let's just paint me as some sort of emasculated coward in the hope it somehow discredits my views.

I stand by my advice to you earlier in the evening.

Edit: For the record,  here is where I "put my money where my mouth is":
https://m.facebook.com/groups/2214937289/permalink/10160316964952290/?comment_id=10160317031462290 (https://m.facebook.com/groups/2214937289/permalink/10160316964952290/?comment_id=10160317031462290)

P.S. - I don't "babysit" my own children.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on February 02, 2023, 15:54:58 pm
trouble is there is a big difference - we are a set-of part time volunteers & lifetime supporters, not spending any money trying to protect NTFC

whilst KT receives expenses (not salary), has £5m annual budget to play with, full time media staff and is trying to profit from our land

But then you are typical of many of here - hide behind a false name and only just appeared in the last few months, we no history and almost every post is a dig at Trust / fans.

So yes i do get annoyed

Put your name where your mouth is

Firstly, you’re hardly a fan, and certainty a supporter.

Secondly, you need to stop whinging and crying about how you're being treated. You’re more than happy to insult, lie, and do anything you can to put across a weak point and rip the club apart. I can’t even start to list the amount of shyte you have said about me. Yet I haven’t lied once about you.

You’ve peddled malice and lies for goodness knows how long now. Let’s face it, you and your pals have been dumped twice now, by two so called interested parties. Plus the vast majority of the support either have no clue who you lot are, or think you're trouble. The club wants absolutely nothing to do with you. I’m not sure about you….. But I reckon there’s a theme developing here… 😂😂😂


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: singcobb on February 02, 2023, 18:06:28 pm
Firstly, you’re hardly a fan, and certainty a supporter.

Secondly, you need to stop whinging and crying about how you're being treated. You’re more than happy to insult, lie, and do anything you can to put across a weak point and rip the club apart. I can’t even start to list the amount of shyte you have said about me. Yet I haven’t lied once about you.

You’ve peddled malice and lies for goodness knows how long now. Let’s face it, you and your pals have been dumped twice now, by two so called interested parties. Plus the vast majority of the support either have no clue who you lot are, or think you're trouble. The club wants absolutely nothing to do with you. I’m not sure about you….. But I reckon there’s a theme developing here…

Nige,
What gets me is that they still can't see or admit that they have done something wrong. They rode roughshod over the very mission statement of the Trust and in my mind are unfit to continue in anyway with the trust.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: GrangeParkCobbler on February 02, 2023, 19:20:51 pm


Shall I have a go?

The ACV was taken out by the Trust to protect the stadium from being redeveloped at any point. I think we all thought that was a good thing at the time, but the area covered by it also included the athletics track.

ACVs are a bit of a paper tiger really. They don't provide any solid protection, they just say that if at any point the owner of the asset wants to dispose of it then the holder of the ACV essentially gets a period of time in which they have first refusal. If they indicate that they do want to make a bid then it triggers a further period of time in which they can come up with a bid.

In the case of Sixfields, on the very last day of this period the Trust announced they were bidding £3m for the land. Not just the area of the athletics track covered by the ACV, but the whole lot right up to the the gravel car park and including the hard surface car park between the tip and the bowling alley.

Obviously the Trust don't have £3m so the money had come from elsewhere.

In parallel to all this, a land remediation/development company called Cildara were bidding against the club for the same land, minus the ACV part. They actually bid more per acre than the club, but the council opted to accept the club's bid rather than Cildara's, largely I suspect because the club say they will complete the East Stand if they win.

Cildara didn't like this and launched a legal challenge, not so much to the decision as the process that the council followed to reach that decision. This process is still on going. If Cildara win, the whole bidding process restarts. It's being played out on semantics, really. The council can still choose the club's bid, they will just have to be a bit more watertight in how they reach that decision.

This week the Trust announced that their bid had fallen through because their partner, who they had refused to name, was being unreasonable in some of the terms they were laying down, as were the council.

On the back of this, and presumably out of spite, Cildara then announced that they had been the Trust's partner in this bid. I guess launching a further bid in partnership with the Trust gave them a degree of credibility ("hey, look, we might not have any link to the club but the supporters trust are backing us so we can't be all bad") and in return for their endorsement Cildara were going to "give" them the ACV land (although it appears to be in the detail of how exactly this was going to work that the deal fell through)

So the Trust have been working with the very same third party that are bidding against the club and are currently blocking the sale of the land to the club with a legal challenge. I'll leave you to decide what you think about this.

For the record, I don't disagree with a word of Stan's account, I just thought I'd provide a slant with less bias. ;D

Edit: it's probably also worth mentioning that the ACV bolt has now been well and truly shot. Now the Trust have withdrawn their bid the ACV has expired and would need to be reapplied for and the council have indicated that they won't look favourably on any new application based upon how long the athletics track has stood derelict. This also means the stadium itself is no longer covered by an ACV.



I'll have a go and add a couple more bits.....

The Trust held the ACV, invoked the ACV as required and enquired as to the cost of the land, thats the 3 acres of ACV land, not the whole development land. They were told by the Council that they (Council) were unwilling to put a price on just that land and would only consider offers (quite wrongly in my opinion) which matched the offers already made on the wider development. Thinking was that their preferred bidder (CDNL) would pull out of the whole deal if they didn't get the ACV land which was included in their bid.

The Trust knew then they had to find that money and were approached by Cilldara and a further bid was put in for the whole development land on the day the ACV bid had to be in. That explains why they bid for the whole lot of development land rather than just the ACV land.

The reason why WNC accepted the offer from CDNL over the Cilldara offer was because they thought they would get their money quicker, and easier because CDNL are the leaseholders for that land. A proitacted legal battle between Cilldara and CDNL would have ensued had the Cilldara offer been accepted. It was made very clear in correspondence that the decision to award the deal to CDNL had nothing to do with the stand being built, it wasn't allowed to be a factor for consideration.

As you rightly say WNC accepted a lower offer for more of the land and it is partly because of that thst Cilldara called for the JR, that and the fact bids were allowed after the best and final bids had already been presented, and also because Cilldara believe their final bid of £3m was not given due consideration by WNC Cabinet. Another consideration for any decision is whether "best value" is given to the taxpayers of Northampton.

So what we had was Cilldara gaining another bid at the table (2 out of three connected to them, better chance?) and also the Trust seeing this as their only way of protecting that ACV land for further use by the Football Club as their hand had been forced by the Council when it came to the financing of their bid.

Whilst it is true that the Trust teamed up with the "enemy" it is also worth remembering that Cilldara had launched their bid for a judicial review before even entering into any prospective deal with the Trust. In reality the situation is no different today than it was the day after the Council announced that the CDNL bid was the winner.

Sure the optics look awful, and i'm not leaping to the defence of the Trust here, one of the reasons I resigned from the Trust board is because I just could not support that bid.

In my opinion we really need to be looking to the future. Cilldara seem pretty confident the JR will go their way, as you say the process will be re-run, and I feel that when it comes to the crunch Cilldaras pockets are deeper than David Bowers. I mean, in a rerun if they offered £6m do you think "the club" would match it? I also believe that any future Cilldara bid will now include the ACV plot of land too because, as you rightly say again, that process has reached a conclusion.

Lets not forget this company (Cilldara) want that land, they've been after it for five or 6 years to my knowledge, and they were willing to buy the club to get to it a few years back.

As bad as everyone is feeling about the Trusts actions, as much as some want the board to resign and so on and so forth, all of that pales into insignificance when you consider what might be just around the corner.

Of course all that may not come to pass and the decision to award the deal to CDNL is upheld (I don't know whether there is any route for a further appeal by Cilldara) and then CDNL can get on with stuff and we will all see whether the fears of some are realised (ie no stand completion and nothing for the future of the club barring a clearance of the debt owed to DB and KT) or whether actually they're (owners) not all bad and the club sees a great future as a result of the land deal. If that's the case then I'm sure we'll all be happy!!

NB: These views are my own, but posted above with a bit of inside knowledge into a couple of the points mentioned!



Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BackOfTheNet on February 02, 2023, 19:40:34 pm
Cheers, Simon, that adds some interesting meat on the bones. Fair play to you for holding true to your principles and walking away when you saw where things were going, although (and this is meant without malice) it's a shame we don't still have your more measured head on the Trust board.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BackOfTheNet on February 02, 2023, 19:47:59 pm
On a different note, I've now read the Trust response to the resignation calls. It's a bit odd because it's aimed entirely at Tom's group as if they were the only ones calling for the board to resign, when in reality Tom's group issued their statement in response to a more general call from a number of supporters.

I've seen lots of people on social media saying they should resign over the Cildara farce and on this site alone 60 of 71 respondents currently feel the same. That's a lot more people than the 9 signatories than the response addresses, but the rest of us are effectively being swept under the carpet.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: FezNTFC on February 02, 2023, 20:02:10 pm
I’m assuming that if they want to stay on, the options outside of the AGM are very limited. The current board hold all of the cards if they insist on staying, external to an AGM options are limited.

There absolutely no chance of forming a no confidence vote. Well over 50% of the membership either don’t care or are simply not contactable. At the moment, the board appears (I can only assume) either ambivalent, or oblivious to the impact of their actions.

I agree with you about not wanting to discard the good work that has gone before. But this board beyond the land and stand issues, hasn’t shown an appetite for any other Trust business. It is more akin to a specific working party, than it is a supporters trust
I see. Valid points, and you won't find me disputing that the constitution could do with being modernised where possible.

But there IS a democratic route available outside the AGM in terms of being able to call the EGMs/no confidence - the support base being apathetic doesn't change that.

That said, I believe there are 15 board spaces available according to model rules. If there's only 6 at the moment then that means the two longest serving will have to resign (I don't know who they are) and stand for re-election. Therefore the way things stand, the nine people who want to stand from Not My Trust could all be elected to the board unopposed even if the two who stood down from the current board are also elected unopposed.

If the membership want it, a change of direction will not be far away.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 02, 2023, 21:58:25 pm
In conversations I have had I have been unable to find a member who wishes any of the current board to continue in any capacity other than 1 who questions if there is a role in any future board for Andy Roberts. That’s around 12 members and during conversations they have also reported that they have been unable to identify individuals outside of social media who want any of the current board to remain.
Now whilst this is obviously not conclusive evidence regarding the result of a full vote, given these experiences, the strength of feeling and the comparative responses on here I believe this is irrefutable evidence this is what the overwhelming majority of the membership want. So for me any questions around whether the current rules and procedures are fit for purpose will be exposed over the coming weeks. Because the majority of the membership either get their wish, or the entire process is flawed and any argument to the contrary futile. But as demonstrated in the various communications since the revelations I expect the current individuals holding the positions to cling to the wreckage with everything ounce of strength they have and damn the consequences. That tells me everything I need to know about the individuals involved, and what is necessary to take our Trust forward.
However, all the information and evidence is out there regarding the conduct and caliber of the individuals involved on all sides. Members are obviously entitled and should be encouraged to make their own interpretations on events to reach any conclusions regarding all this.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: MCHammer on February 02, 2023, 22:25:14 pm
Grange, thanks for your input and hopefully we get to see more contributions from you on these matters now many of them are out in the open.

I'd like to hear why you couldn't personally support the £3m bid.  I'd also like some insight if you could provide it as to whether there was a full understanding of the consequences for the owners and by association the football club, of the joint bid winning the land.  It's fairly obvious to anyone that should Cilldara get the land, there would definitely be no east stand completion, no debt repayment or additional investment.  It was obvious Cilldara would offer nothing from the dev land to the club and would simply build warehouses which you and others have stated are completely uninspiring.  This would have obviously also had a serious knock on effect to the day to day running of the football club and the funds the owners were willing to put in.  Were these matters considered, ignored or deemed acceptable, perhaps even beneficial to the Trusts aims?

The reason I ask these type of questions leads back to what you are saying in the rest of your post.  I get everyone from the Trust would rather move on and forget about this and like you say potentially there are bigger concerns on the horizon.  However for people to move on they need to understand and be heard.  How can anyone possibly trust the current Trust Board on anything they say in the future.  There's no contrition, no admission of mistakes they still think they have done nothing wrong.

I just don't see how anyone can come together after this with the current Trust Board all still in their roles.  How is anyone ever going to believe a word they say and how would anyone believe they want the best for the club when they made it so obvious they support the opposing bid?

Final thing.  You and others like Carlton, seem completely reluctant to ever criticise the Trust Board.  I get that and I get there is a loyalty and in the mst part you suppoirt their aims.  But we have all had to have tough conversations with our best mates sometimes when they have been out of order.  You guys have the ear of these individuals more than I ever will.  Some hard truths from good friends hit home way harder than a strangers would.  I don't for one minute believe you guys completely approve of what has gone on and you need to tell them that....in my opinion.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on February 03, 2023, 07:43:38 am
Great post Grange, thanks for providing your insight.
There are probably 2-3 issues that I have with the situation when I think about it.

1. The hypocrisy. The Trust critisise the club publicly in statements about their lack of transparency and hiding behind confidentiality and then do exactly the same themselves. I don't buy the 'KT scuppered the deal' line. I'm sure he did, why wouldn't he?! But if the deal was as good as the Trust claim then it should have held. They critisise the owners for building warehouses and lacking imagination, whilst partnering with a company who will build warehouses, albeit 50m further away from the stand.

2. The disdain they have for their fellow fans. Emotions have often got in the way on all sides and the conversation hasn't been as polite as it should be, but we are all passionate about this club. But anyone who questions their plans or their motives are instantly called into question, called KT lovers, told we don't understand the situation, essentially called stupid (not reading or understanding the council documents for example)

3. Lack or accountability and responsibility. The Trust have essentially admitted the reason they partnered with Cilldara was to force a seat back at the table. How did we get to a position where the Trust had to do that?! I know KT isn't the most welcoming but you can still have a professional relationship with someone if you cant have a personable one. I have never seen anyone from the Trust acknowledge their mistakes, this week is a great example. Rather than explain the situation like GPC did they came out swinging blaming everyone but themselves.

As much as the Trust board believe they have acted in the best interests for the club they are now so distant from the club and then fans that it is time for a change. It happens in all walks of life, boards of businesses, governments etc, one day its time for a change, and that time is now.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BackOfTheNet on February 03, 2023, 08:43:36 am

As much as the Trust board believe they have acted in the best interests for the club they are now so distant from the club and then fans that it is time for a change. It happens in all walks of life, boards of businesses, governments etc, one day its time for a change, and that time is now.

I fully agree with this. The board have become entrenched in their position and things have been said and done that can't be gone back on.

The Trust bid is dead and the ACV has gone. Any leverage the Trust had is gone.

In order for the Trust to have any relevance now the only option is for them to find a way to work with the club and build a few bridges.

Unfortunately things have got personal (on both sides) and I don't think there's any coming back from that. The owners aren't going to change so if any sort of working relationship is going to be restored then the only thing left to change is the Trust board.

Rights, wrongs and good intentions are irrelevant; we are where we are and a clean sweep is needed to move forwards.

And before anyone starts on about the owners not wanting to engage, look at the correspondence between them and Tom's group on the NotMyTrust website. They are perfectly willing to engage when spoken to in a civil and productive manner (although to some that's probably just seen as proof that they are in KT's pocket ::))


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: DavCobb on February 03, 2023, 09:26:24 am
I think the only way the relationship is repaired between the Trust and the owners is that the deal goes through and the stand is completed. If they don’t get the land the Trust will carry the can, regardless of their involvement in the outcome. If they do and don’t finish the stand then on some level their actions (maybe not behaviours) are vindicated.
Unfortunately we could still be a few years away from finding out.
In the meantime I’m sure they’ll be plenty of infighting, posturing and power plays within the Trust that probably won’t do the fans and the club a lot of good but will no doubt generate a lot of handbags on social media.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Deepcut Cobbler on February 03, 2023, 10:42:17 am
The first step towards solving a problem, is recognising and acknowledging that there is one. 8)


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3574 on February 03, 2023, 11:38:32 am
I may have misread but aren't 3 board positions up for re-election? And the board members have to step down? Apologies if I have this wrong


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 03, 2023, 16:14:46 pm
I fully agree with this. The board have become entrenched in their position and things have been said and done that can't be gone back on.

The Trust bid is dead and the ACV has gone. Any leverage the Trust had is gone.

In order for the Trust to have any relevance now the only option is for them to find a way to work with the club and build a few bridges.

Unfortunately things have got personal (on both sides) and I don't think there's any coming back from that. The owners aren't going to change so if any sort of working relationship is going to be restored then the only thing left to change is the Trust board.

Rights, wrongs and good intentions are irrelevant; we are where we are and a clean sweep is needed to move forwards.

And before anyone starts on about the owners not wanting to engage, look at the correspondence between them and Tom's group on the NotMyTrust website. They are perfectly willing to engage when spoken to in a civil and productive manner (although to some that's probably just seen as proof that they are in KT's pocket ::))
But any dialogue is actualy between the owners and the Trust, not the Trust board.
Replace those who currently represent the Trust with others who KT likes, and he will enter a dialogue is what you're saying, but until when?
Until someone gets elected to the Trust board that he doesnt like and the present status quo is resumes.
That's not how the Trust should be forced to operate.



Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BackOfTheNet on February 03, 2023, 17:23:39 pm
But any dialogue is actualy between the owners and the Trust, not the Trust board.
Replace those who currently represent the Trust with others who KT likes, and he will enter a dialogue is what you're saying, but until when?
Until someone gets elected to the Trust board that he doesnt like and the present status quo is resumes.
That's not how the Trust should be forced to operate.



You're absolutely right, that's not how it should be, but I think you are sliding into the realms of absolutism there. I don't think KT dislikes/refuses to engage with the board simply because they are the board, he's reached that point due to the actions and behaviour of the individuals who currently comprise the board. If the individuals were to change, I believe his attitude would change.

It is then down to the future conduct of the new board. By that I don't mean they should be a bunch of nodding dogs, bowing, scraping and agreeing with everything the club says and does, however there are ways and means of doing that that don't involve burning bridges.

Again, I think there is a degree of absolutism in the current board's comments about Tom's group that is evident in their remarks about the Trust not being a "supporter's club". They have chosen to fight the owners tooth and nail and they seem to assume any new board members will automatically be the polar opposite of that,  however there's a happy medium to be struck that occupies the middle ground.

As an aside, when I say I think KT's attitude will change when the board changes, no, I don't think his attitude will change to the point he'll welcome a Trust representative back onto the club's board with open arms, I just think he'll be willing to talk to them more. Getting someone back onto the club's board is a fight for another day when the fundamental relationship has been repaired.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on February 03, 2023, 20:33:24 pm
But any dialogue is actualy between the owners and the Trust, not the Trust board.
Replace those who currently represent the Trust with others who KT likes, and he will enter a dialogue is what you're saying, but until when?
Until someone gets elected to the Trust board that he doesnt like and the present status quo is resumes.
That's not how the Trust should be forced to operate.



There doesn’t have to be any dialogue whatsoever. The club has appointed a supporters representative as per the up and coming government guidelines. So in that respect, they are ahead of the curve.

You do know, that there is a distinct possibility that the current Trust model is hugely outdated. Resembling that (as was previously said) of a social/working mens club committee. Any fanciful notion that the Trust could save us from anything is nothing more than fantasy. When clubs fold these days, even lower league clubs, it normally involves huge sums of money. Can you imagine for one second, a scenario where KT and DB, after being stung by the Trust boards bedfellows. Suddenly up sticks, write off the debt, and hand it over to the Trust as an interim custodian 😂😂 No, of course you can’t.

I completely appreciate GPC's comments, they are very welcome. But what must have been in his mind throughout, was the potential fall out from this. If you can’t find the Trust boards actions inconceivable on any level, then you’re crazy. There is just no circumstance where a supporters Trust of a certain club, can get into bed with a totally unassociated property developer, with no affiliation whatsoever to the club or the support. And effectively back them against the owners. Who in the vast majority of supporters eyes, certainly should be the preferred bid. Not necessarily because he’s always been good to his word. But at least he has run the club, kept it in the league, and actually knows the fùcking names of those who work there. Staff who just happen to love the bloke as well. Putting aside the fact that they did this without so much as a nod from the very people they represent. Tossing aside their constitution and mission statement in the process.

I keep hearing from those that back the Trust board about all of these big money guys, who are waiting in the wings to run NTFC. So where are they? I mean surely if you are the Trust board, you pop over to one of your plethora of millionaires, and you make him/her the offer of a lifetime. Just back us on the ACV. Bid for the land as well, then sit back with us and watch the whole house of cards come down. Then as a genuine millionaire Cobblers supporter, you can ride into town and pick up the pieces. With us by your side. Not only do you get the land, you also get the NTFC. Something you have always wanted. The supports happy, because you love the Cobblers. The supporters Trust is happy having found a genuine Cobblers loving saviour. And the saviour is happy with their new club, and lots of lovely enabling money. Win win win win win….

But no. Because no one like that exists. So what do they blòody do. They jump into bed with the very group that could fùck NTFC for good. Simply unforgivable.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 03, 2023, 21:17:11 pm
But any dialogue is actualy between the owners and the Trust, not the Trust board.
Replace those who currently represent the Trust with others who KT likes, and he will enter a dialogue is what you're saying, but until when?
Until someone gets elected to the Trust board that he doesnt like and the present status quo is resumes.
That's not how the Trust should be forced to operate.

If the Board of the Trust made decisions with the full active endorsement of the membership that is a far more dangerous strategy than upsetting 6 people acting in isolation against the apparent wishes of the majority of the membership. It’s about controlling what you can and forgetting about what you can’t. The current strategy has failed spectacularly in case you haven’t noticed. I would suggest the best option is to try a different approach, rather than repeating the same mistakes and presumably getting the same results.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: everbrite on February 03, 2023, 21:24:56 pm
I hope you guys spend tomorrow afternoon at Sixfields rather on a keyboard belting out sweet nothings about the ACV land/Trust/Council/NTFC.
Its not you that guys can change anything before the upcoming Trust AGM?

#Support your Club - CfE


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 03, 2023, 22:42:09 pm
You're absolutely right, that's not how it should be, but I think you are sliding into the realms of absolutism there. I don't think KT dislikes/refuses to engage with the board simply because they are the board, he's reached that point due to the actions and behaviour of the individuals who currently comprise the board. If the individuals were to change, I believe his attitude would change.

It is then down to the future conduct of the new board. By that I don't mean they should be a bunch of nodding dogs, bowing, scraping and agreeing with everything the club says and does, however there are ways and means of doing that that don't involve burning bridges.

Again, I think there is a degree of absolutism in the current board's comments about Tom's group that is evident in their remarks about the Trust not being a "supporter's club". They have chosen to fight the owners tooth and nail and they seem to assume any new board members will automatically be the polar opposite of that,  however there's a happy medium to be struck that occupies the middle ground.

As an aside, when I say I think KT's attitude will change when the board changes, no, I don't think his attitude will change to the point he'll welcome a Trust representative back onto the club's board with open arms, I just think he'll be willing to talk to them more. Getting someone back onto the club's board is a fight for another day when the fundamental relationship has been repaired.
I don't think KT is at all put out by the way the Trust board approach things, he just doesn't like anyone who doesn't walk his walk. They could be as polite and inoffensive as they like and it wouldn't make a bit of difference. He wants yes men. If they are polite yes men then so much the better.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 03, 2023, 22:44:13 pm
There doesn’t have to be any dialogue whatsoever. The club has appointed a supporters representative as per the up and coming government guidelines. So in that respect, they are ahead of the curve.

You do know, that there is a distinct possibility that the current Trust model is hugely outdated. Resembling that (as was previously said) of a social/working mens club committee. Any fanciful notion that the Trust could save us from anything is nothing more than fantasy. When clubs fold these days, even lower league clubs, it normally involves huge sums of money. Can you imagine for one second, a scenario where KT and DB, after being stung by the Trust boards bedfellows. Suddenly up sticks, write off the debt, and hand it over to the Trust as an interim custodian 😂😂 No, of course you can’t.

I completely appreciate GPC's comments, they are very welcome. But what must have been in his mind throughout, was the potential fall out from this. If you can’t find the Trust boards actions inconceivable on any level, then you’re crazy. There is just no circumstance where a supporters Trust of a certain club, can get into bed with a totally unassociated property developer, with no affiliation whatsoever to the club or the support. And effectively back them against the owners. Who in the vast majority of supporters eyes, certainly should be the preferred bid. Not necessarily because he’s always been good to his word. But at least he has run the club, kept it in the league, and actually knows the fùcking names of those who work there. Staff who just happen to love the bloke as well. Putting aside the fact that they did this without so much as a nod from the very people they represent. Tossing aside their constitution and mission statement in the process.

I keep hearing from those that back the Trust board about all of these big money guys, who are waiting in the wings to run NTFC. So where are they? I mean surely if you are the Trust board, you pop over to one of your plethora of millionaires, and you make him/her the offer of a lifetime. Just back us on the ACV. Bid for the land as well, then sit back with us and watch the whole house of cards come down. Then as a genuine millionaire Cobblers supporter, you can ride into town and pick up the pieces. With us by your side. Not only do you get the land, you also get the NTFC. Something you have always wanted. The supports happy, because you love the Cobblers. The supporters Trust is happy having found a genuine Cobblers loving saviour. And the saviour is happy with their new club, and lots of lovely enabling money. Win win win win win….

But no. Because no one like that exists. So what do they blòody do. They jump into bed with the very group that could fùck NTFC for good. Simply unforgivable.
Dont mean to be dismissive but I'm not sure what relevance any of this has to my point?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 03, 2023, 22:54:46 pm
If the Board of the Trust made decisions with the full active endorsement of the membership that is a far more dangerous strategy than upsetting 6 people acting in isolation against the apparent wishes of the majority of the membership. It’s about controlling what you can and forgetting about what you can’t. The current strategy has failed spectacularly in case you haven’t noticed. I would suggest the best option is to try a different approach, rather than repeating the same mistakes and presumably getting the same results.
As I've already said, I don't think this has anything to do with either side 'upsetting ' each other.
Regards accountability within the Trust, you have made that point many times. I don't know who dropped the remark 'people like you want the Trust to be a referendum party', back to Peter Frost, but it's probably quite appropriate and succinct for your good self?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 03, 2023, 23:23:31 pm
As I've already said, I don't think this has anything to do with either side 'upsetting ' each other.
Regards accountability within the Trust, you have made that point many times. I don't know who dropped the remark 'people like you want the Trust to be a referendum party', back to Peter Frost, but it's probably quite appropriate and succinct for your good self?
And so the misdirection continues. Presumably when someone takes a seat on the Board that KT doesn’t like (the criteria you set) they will have to do something to upset him for him not to like them. It’s not complicated, and you accuse others of being pedantic. Put any label on it you like, the Board of the Trust have made the commitment to be open, inclusive and accountable. Those are the rules and they are non negotiable. Unless you are looking to add the caveat “in the Boards opinion” to that as well, which of course negates any responsibility to the commitment and gives the collective Board license to do as they see fit without consultation or accountability. Hardly in the spirit of a Trust in my opinion and I suspect that of the majority membership either. So it’s not back to Peter, and inclusive of my good self, it happens to be what the majority of the membership want. If I’m wrong put it to the test?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Shoemaker on February 04, 2023, 06:05:06 am
I no longer post or attend matches due to ill health but felt compelled to jot down a few musings.

It is clear the current trust are not fit for purpose.
They have acted undemocratically in pushing through decisions without allowing all paid members to vote and have actively and knowingly acted against the best interests of the football club they represent.
There is no need to add anything else.

I was the first to point out many moons ago that there seemed to be a chance of the trust acting in tandom with cilldara which has now come to pass.
Whoever thought it was a smart idea to involve outside interest in the sixfields site was very sadly misguided and has potentially placed the clubs entire future in serious doubt.

The fact that there is now a judicial review doesn’t surprise me one bit and again I pointed out long ago I believed things would go down this path.

To me the bidding process seemed very odd to say the least regards timings of bids and certain bids being allowed where others were not.
This should have raised alarm bells at the time.
However from memory a chap from the council posted at great length on here to tell the fanbase there was no cause for concern despite the bidding timelines so to speak.
It’s worth noting that the individual hasn’t posted on here in many moons to ease supporters fears and we are now at the mercy of a judicial review to basically see if the council managed to operate the bidding process in the correct manner.

It will be interesting to see the outcome and in turn whether this council was more competent than their predecessors who gave away ten million pounds or so of public money without the necessary safeguards.

The cilldara legal team have stated they are very confident of victory in this matter….

IF cilldara are successful it remains to be seen if the bidding process is reopened which like it or not would seem to be the fairest option.

It seems clear to me that cilldara would win any future bidding war for the land on the previous bidding history.
It would then remain to be seen whether the current owners would continue at the club without the redevelopment land.

I personally think they would leave and administration/liquidation wound follow if this was the case.

To turn the musings full circle, all of this would have been avoided if the trust had not got involved.
The land deal would have gone through unopposed, there would have been no bidding process to scrutinise and things would be further down the road than they are now.

The only thing I do agree with concerning the trust is my belief that there should have been a cast iron guarantee to finish the redevelopment (and to a better standard and higher capacity than the ideas laid out a decade ago).

The fact the trust have put the clubs future in doubt in order to achieve ‘no stand , no land ‘ is a major step in the wrong direction and leaves all fans with a very real option of blank Saturday afternoons in the future.

There was imo no need to end up in this predicament and it was all of the football clubs supporters trusts own making.
Perhaps if they had canvassed all members democratically and asked opinions on the best way to progress then other avenues may have been explored.

Alas a rushed/botched undemocratic view was formed and the rest is history..,.

Anyone thinking that a supporters trust that has acted against the best interests of the club it deems to represent and put its actual future in immediate peril is worthy of future support are at best misguided in my opinion.

I hope things turn out ok for the future so that the town still has a club and fans present and future have a team to support, but make no mistake it will be in no way down to the ‘help’ from its very own supporters trust !!!

UTC.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Tabasco Kid on February 04, 2023, 06:08:01 am
I hope you guys spend tomorrow afternoon at Sixfields rather on a keyboard belting out sweet nothings about the ACV land/Trust/Council/NTFC.
Its not you that guys can change anything before the upcoming Trust AGM?

#Support your Club - CfE
Read the title of the thread..  ::)


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BackOfTheNet on February 04, 2023, 07:24:29 am
I think Cildara have shown themselves to be quite duplicitous and manipulative so while they keep saying they are confident of winning I wouldn't read too much into that.

They may be right, but they are hardly going to be swanning around pre-judgment saying "Oh, we're never going to win but we might as well have a go" are they?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Peter Frost on February 04, 2023, 07:32:20 am
I think Cildara have shown themselves to be quite duplicitous and manipulative so while they keep saying they are confident of winning I wouldn't read too much into that.

They may be right, but they are hardly going to be swanning around pre-judgment saying "Oh, we're never going to win but we might as well have a go" are they?

Agreed - anyone who publicly boasts about likelihood of winning a JD is going to irritate those making that judgement - ultimately it will be decided on a judge’s interpretation of law and judges are apparently human……….


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Peter Frost on February 04, 2023, 07:43:27 am
I don't know who dropped the remark 'people like you want the Trust to be a referendum party', back to Peter Frost, but it's probably quite appropriate and succinct for your good self?

I think you misunderstand my point if you are applying to Melly - my issue was I had clearly stated a board of directors are appointed to make decisions on behalf of its members - however particularly for a trust type organisation, for major issues (like invoking the ACV and the very different issue of partnering with Cildara) they should canvas their members - in typical distraction tactics the first part of my statement was ignored and the accusation as mentioned made.

Of course in polarised arguments people use or ignore the facts that suit their argument and the major one that is doing the rounds now is partnering with Cildara was simply just an extension of invoking the ACV - it’s patently not but repeat it enough times and people might start believing it.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Peter Frost on February 04, 2023, 07:45:40 am
I hope you guys spend tomorrow afternoon at Sixfields rather on a keyboard belting out sweet nothings about the ACV land/Trust/Council/NTFC.
Its not you that guys can change anything before the upcoming Trust AGM?

#Support your Club - CfE

I’m doing both you will be pleased to hear  :)


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on February 04, 2023, 08:00:07 am
Dont mean to be dismissive but I'm not sure what relevance any of this has to my point?

Your point was about the dialogue, or lack of. And the value of, or lack of again, of appointing people that KT likes.

I was illustrating that it doesn’t matter who is appointed. The current Trust model is obsolete. It’s not fit for purpose in modern football.

I then went on to highlight further (not necessarily in the context of my reply to you). How the current Trust board have carried out an unforgivable act in aligning themselves, with what could be the destroyers of league football in this town.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 04, 2023, 08:59:50 am
Your point was about the dialogue, or lack of. And the value of, or lack of again, of appointing people that KT likes.

I was illustrating that it doesn’t matter who is appointed. The current Trust model is obsolete. It’s not fit for purpose in modern football.

I then went on to highlight further (not necessarily in the context of my reply to you). How the current Trust board have carried out an unforgivable act in aligning themselves, with what could be the destroyers of league football in this town.
I disagree.
The position held by the other Tom does not negate the need for a Trust. It might in your mind, it might in KT's mind or Tracey Crouch's mind (thats her isn't it?)but not mine or I'm sure several others.
In your opinion that's what they have done. You have not said whether that is by default or if you think it was a deliberate act (to sabotage league football). They I'm sure will provide you with a reason why they have taken the route they have if they have not already done so.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: everbrite on February 04, 2023, 09:39:32 am
I’m doing both you will be pleased to hear  :)

👍


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Peter Frost on February 04, 2023, 10:42:35 am
In your opinion that's what they have done. You have not said whether that is by default or if you think it was a deliberate act (to sabotage league football). They I'm sure will provide you with a reason why they have taken the route they have if they have not already done so.


I don’t think there is a single person who posts on here or indeed the much wider supporter base that thinks the Trust’s actions were a deliberate act to sabotage league football and putting aside egos, having always  to be right and taking any steps to stop KT/DB getting the land I’m personally sure the intentions were absolutely directed to what they thought was best for the football club - however actions have consequences and good intentions don’t always deliver the right result - it’s the shocking lack of inclusion and accountability before, during and after these actions that means for me, certain individuals have no credibility for future representation for what’s best for our club.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on February 04, 2023, 11:19:44 am
I disagree.
The position held by the other Tom does not negate the need for a Trust. It might in your mind, it might in KT's mind or Tracey Crouch's mind (thats her isn't it?)but not mine or I'm sure several others.
In your opinion that's what they have done. You have not said whether that is by default or if you think it was a deliberate act (to sabotage league football). They I'm sure will provide you with a reason why they have taken the route they have if they have not already done so.


I’m totally with Pete’s opinion on this. However, there is absolutely no escape from the fact that it was crass and ill conceived. The lack of inclusion and communication with those that you serve, is beyond belief. It shows a complete misreading of the support base, and more so of a strategy to promote the supports thoughts.

They have behaved like an unguided missile. And like an unguided missile, they have landed miles wide of what should have been the target.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: MCHammer on February 04, 2023, 12:11:16 pm
I don’t think there is a single person who posts on here or indeed the much wider supporter base that thinks the Trust’s actions were a deliberate act to sabotage league football and putting aside egos, having always  to be right and taking any steps to stop KT/DB getting the land I’m personally sure the intentions were absolutely directed to what they thought was best for the football club - however actions have consequences and good intentions don’t always deliver the right result - it’s the shocking lack of inclusion and accountability before, during and after these actions that means for me, certain individuals have no credibility for future representation for what’s best for our club.

You are being too generous.  They wanted the ACV land at any cost.  They fully understood the consequences to the owners and by association the football club of the development land going elsewhere and that was deemed preferable.

They wanted to damage the owners and set in motion a series of events they couldn't control and that could have caused untold damage to the club.  There were 3 reasons for that.  To get the ACV land, to remove the owners and to heroically ride in and save the day when it all goes wrong.

One of the lead instigaters and influencers behind this plan being the unelected, Cildara/Trust Legal advisor.  For anyone nervous for my pension pot, don't worry.  I've taken legal advice and you can't defame someone if you are telling the truth.   ;D ;D

Tell you what next time Random pops his head up ask him whether they discussed the consequences of the joint bid with Cilldara and what plans they were making when it went tits up for the owners.  Wonder if you'll get the truth?

No matter what people think of him one thing KT was spot on about.  The Trust claim they are here for a rainy day but they sure are/were trying to make it rain.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 04, 2023, 19:10:08 pm
I don’t think there is a single person who posts on here or indeed the much wider supporter base that thinks the Trust’s actions were a deliberate act to sabotage league football and putting aside egos, having always  to be right and taking any steps to stop KT/DB getting the land I’m personally sure the intentions were absolutely directed to what they thought was best for the football club - however actions have consequences and good intentions don’t always deliver the right result - it’s the shocking lack of inclusion and accountability before, during and after these actions that means for me, certain individuals have no credibility for future representation for what’s best for our club.
Completely agree no one thinks that, but disagree with Terry that Cilldara could become a destroyer of league football in Northampton.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3551 on February 04, 2023, 19:11:52 pm
Cilldara it is then. They should do well.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 04, 2023, 19:21:30 pm
I’m totally with Pete’s opinion on this. However, there is absolutely no escape from the fact that it was crass and ill conceived. The lack of inclusion and communication with those that you serve, is beyond belief. It shows a complete misreading of the support base, and more so of a strategy to promote the supports thoughts.

They have behaved like an unguided missile. And like an unguided missile, they have landed miles wide of what should have been the target.
They behaved like an unguided missile? More like a cocked rifle.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3551 on February 04, 2023, 19:47:01 pm
Sounds rude.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 05, 2023, 06:49:56 am
I’m totally with Pete’s opinion on this. However, there is absolutely no escape from the fact that it was crass and ill conceived. The lack of inclusion and communication with those that you serve, is beyond belief. It shows a complete misreading of the support base, and more so of a strategy to promote the supports thoughts.

They have behaved like an unguided missile. And like an unguided missile, they have landed miles wide of what should have been the target.
Indeed, a textbook example of what happens when ill conceived ideologies are let off the leash, allowed to shut out anyone with opposing views and given the keys to the kingdom.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on February 05, 2023, 08:30:22 am
Completely agree no one thinks that, but disagree with Terry that Cilldara could become a destroyer of league football in Northampton.

Do you? Well…. I readily accept that Cildara have no reason to show any mercy or clemency towards the club. They are a property development company, with no association or affiliation with the club or its supporters. The single act that Cildara has directly transcended anything to do with the supporters. Was the Trust board aligning themselves with them. A decision made irrespective of the thoughts of their membership. And certainly irrespective of the other 3K - 4K of regularly attending supporters.

So that outlines some of the Trust and Cildaras initial gambit. Now let’s play out the rest of this potential scenario. The Trust boards (now ex) bedfellows win the judicial review. Which I believe there is a very realistic chance of. KT and DB find themselves saddled with over 5 million pounds debt, with absolutely no realistic way of servicing it. Putting aside any talk about what they should have done. They wake up the morning after they have lost the JR, sitting on a mountain of debt, and nothing more than a lease for the ground in their hands.

I can only see one of two things happening at that point. Insolvency, or a gradual and sustained decline of the club over the next few years.

At the moment. The imaginary notion that many had, that KT and DB would have used the land, serviced the debt, then they just f*** off, looks very attractive now 😀😀. Although I haven’t seen one shred of evidence that this is the case. Remember……. This theory has been peddled without one ounce of evidence to back it.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 05, 2023, 08:41:54 am
Do you? Well…. I readily accept that Cildara have no reason to show any mercy or clemency towards the club. They are a property development company, with no association or affiliation with the club or its supporters. The single act that Cildara has directly transcended anything to do with the supporters. Was the Trust board aligning themselves with them. A decision made irrespective of the thoughts of their membership. And certainly irrespective of the other 3K - 4K of regularly attending supporters.

So that outlines some of the Trust and Cildaras initial gambit. Now let’s play out the rest of this potential scenario. The Trust boards (now ex) bedfellows win the judicial review. Which I believe there is a very realistic chance of. KT and DB find themselves saddled with over 5 million pounds debt, with absolutely no realistic way of servicing it. Putting aside any talk about what they should have done. They wake up the morning after they have lost the JR, sitting on a mountain of debt, and nothing more than a lease for the ground in their hands.

I can only see one of two things happening at that point. Insolvency, or a gradual and sustained decline of the club over the next few years.

At the moment. The imaginary notion that many had, that KT and DB would have used the land, serviced the debt, then they just f*** off, looks very attractive now 😀😀. Although I haven’t seen one shred of evidence that this is the case. Remember……. This theory has been peddled without one ounce of evidence to back it.
Thing is Tel is whilst a theory it’s also an obvious possibility. You can argue all day about how possible because that’s subjective and the only people who have a clear idea are the owners. The thing with any well considered plan is to have a contingency for each reasonable scenario. So what was the contingency when the alliance with Cilldara was entered into? I believe there probably was one, it’s unthinkable that there wasn’t. If so perhaps it is still an option, how viable is another question?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Deepcut Cobbler on February 05, 2023, 08:49:32 am
Thing is Tel is whilst a theory it’s also an obvious possibility. You can argue all day about how possible because that’s subjective and the only people who have a clear idea are the owners. The thing with any well considered plan is to have a contingency for each reasonable scenario. So what was the contingency when the alliance with Cilldara was entered into? I believe there probably was one, it’s unthinkable that there wasn’t. If so perhaps it is still an option, how viable is another question?

"We were at a much earlier stage, the plan was to safeguard the ACV first, then look at how to utilise it for club benefit. But 100% of any profit would have been for NTFC benefit which is more detail than we've had from the owners about  their plans."


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on February 05, 2023, 08:59:03 am
Thing is Tel is whilst a theory it’s also an obvious possibility. You can argue all day about how possible because that’s subjective and the only people who have a clear idea are the owners. The thing with any well considered plan is to have a contingency for each reasonable scenario. So what was the contingency when the alliance with Cilldara was entered into? I believe there probably was one, it’s unthinkable that there wasn’t. If so perhaps it is still an option, how viable is another question?

I have no idea what the Trust contingency was. But if you read their statement regarding why they pulled out. Not only does it not mention any back up. It reads (and can only comment on my interpretation) that there’s virtually no signed accord on what either Cildara or the council could do.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BedsCobb on February 05, 2023, 09:03:41 am
Again a simple excuse to have a cheapshot - oh anyone but KT

It is not that at all but he is in charge - he is theone who holds all the cards and could have done the stand at almost anytime - he still hasn't

I just someone who believes in Northampton and that we can and should be better. KT doesn't believe in this - only soundbites and little gestures that many fans lap-up

If he was to get on with on - i would be there tomorrow offering to help move us forward -(not that he would want me) but KT has no interest in ANYONE who questions or asking him to do more.

He also did not make any announcements regarding their plans with the 9 warehouses they want to build on land, with the biggest one virtually right up to the back of the East stand

That is what you keyboard warrior should be worried about - look at the plans and you won't need to wonder to hard why he is keeping that quiet

and where is the fans village, the training facilities, the new scoreboard - all announced with grand fanfare, just at the time KT needed to look good to the fans, and then nothing .........

Meanwhile down at the Saints their multi-million pound investment is going ahead - no excuses of high costs, lack of materials, planning problems, etc etc. they just get on with it - why ?  because they love their club and want to be a part of its future

although again nice soundbites re the East stand of " we have the money", "we have a 120 year long lease" and "why would we not build it we are losing income" nothing is happening because ............. ?????????
Great Post amongst a pile of orchestrated CDNL bias.

So many 'new posters' crawling out of the Sixfields broom cupboard peddling the slow death of our clubs last chance of ever building up our clubs infrastructure that allow us to escape the basement division.

The weirdest thing is despite the well planned division created by cdnl/ thomas and his employees...We all want exactly the same thing and I will prove it here..

WHAT WE ALL WANT...
1. A finished East stand an acceptable standard.
2 A 2000 capacity increase ro the South stand to maximise on the dozen bigger games when playing in L1, which improves the coffers as well as match day atmosphere giving Sixfields a more professional look and must visit feel.
3. Improved matchday experience, fan Village and easy access food and beverages kiosk in say a 30m buffer zone to separate the football stadium from the vast warehousing proposed.

All the above would attract more supporters than the non league loking 1990s current version of Sixfields..

So are we all in agreement? .....     (*)

If yes, 👍 great and even more surprising the cost of all the above is £1,000.000 less than Thomas's estimated cost of fitting 10 boxes to the east stand!
So even CDNL/Thomas has to be happy with the above.

Next step, make Cdnl/thomas and the WNC aware that the Town and the supporters of Northampton town are UNITED behind an agreed amount just £5m of development from the £20,000.000 that cdnl/ thomas stand to make from the sale of 23 acres of prime redevelopment land surrounding Sixfields stadium.

Anyone against these easily implemented proposals?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BedsCobb on February 05, 2023, 09:29:38 am
Great post Grange, thanks for providing your insight.
There are probably 2-3 issues that I have with the situation when I think about it.

1. The hypocrisy. The Trust critisise the club publicly in statements about their lack of transparency and hiding behind confidentiality and then do exactly the same themselves. I don't buy the 'KT scuppered the deal' line. I'm sure he did, why wouldn't he?! But if the deal was as good as the Trust claim then it should have held. They critisise the owners for building warehouses and lacking imagination, whilst partnering with a company who will build warehouses, albeit 50m further away from the stand.

2. The disdain they have for their fellow fans. Emotions have often got in the way on all sides and the conversation hasn't been as polite as it should be, but we are all passionate about this club. But anyone who questions their plans or their motives are instantly called into question, called KT lovers, told we don't understand the situation, essentially called stupid (not reading or understanding the council documents for example)

3. Lack or accountability and responsibility. The Trust have essentially admitted the reason they partnered with Cilldara was to force a seat back at the table. How did we get to a position where the Trust had to do that?! I know KT isn't the most welcoming but you can still have a professional relationship with someone if you cant have a personable one. I have never seen anyone from the Trust acknowledge their mistakes, this week is a great example. Rather than explain the situation like GPC did they came out swinging blaming everyone but themselves.

As much as the Trust board believe they have acted in the best interests for the club they are now so distant from the club and then fans that it is time for a change. It happens in all walks of life, boards of businesses, governments etc, one day its time for a change, and that time is now.
Stan,  have you noticed that at no time have you spoke of what it is you want from this development and hopes you have for our clubs future you claim to have supported since the mid 80s..All you have done in your 2 dozen posts is vehemently attacked the trust..So for that reason I have your cards marked as a 'plant' possibly another cdnl/ broom cupboard assassin..?
Am I right?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 05, 2023, 10:41:20 am
Do you? Well…. I readily accept that Cildara have no reason to show any mercy or clemency towards the club. They are a property development company, with no association or affiliation with the club or its supporters. The single act that Cildara has directly transcended anything to do with the supporters. Was the Trust board aligning themselves with them. A decision made irrespective of the thoughts of their membership. And certainly irrespective of the other 3K - 4K of regularly attending supporters.

So that outlines some of the Trust and Cildaras initial gambit. Now let’s play out the rest of this potential scenario. The Trust boards (now ex) bedfellows win the judicial review. Which I believe there is a very realistic chance of. KT and DB find themselves saddled with over 5 million pounds debt, with absolutely no realistic way of servicing it. Putting aside any talk about what they should have done. They wake up the morning after they have lost the JR, sitting on a mountain of debt, and nothing more than a lease for the ground in their hands.

I can only see one of two things happening at that point. Insolvency, or a gradual and sustained decline of the club over the next few years.

At the moment. The imaginary notion that many had, that KT and DB would have used the land, serviced the debt, then they just f*** off, looks very attractive now 😀😀. Although I haven’t seen one shred of evidence that this is the case. Remember……. This theory has been peddled without one ounce of evidence to back it.
Cilldara coming along is just one of many many variables that could have developed in the time DB and Mrs DB bought the club for a pound and a tax bill.
Why did they do that?
There was no land to purchase when they rode into town so are we expected to believe that they massively got their sums wrong and thought they could buck the trend and make a profit from little old NTFC, or was it down to Dave's egotistical nature and his affinity for the Cobblers?  All I've heard from certain posters is that a league two club loses a million quid a year on average and we've always been bang average, so which is it? I can only think that it's the former as the evidence is that DB keeps an extremely low profile.
If we are looking for reasons why the devil also rode into town let's not forget they were in talks to buy the club for months, but according to some DB got greedy and upped the asking price. So who introduced the tiger into the room, because your scape goat, the Trust board didn't. Maybe the Tiger had his own keys then or maybe the clubs owner actively sought buyers out and found him.
Businesses fail time and again, indeed several that DB has been involved with have. Let's not look any further than our owners lack of acumen if we need someone to blame for the club going tits up.



Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3574 on February 05, 2023, 11:10:40 am
Great Post amongst a pile of orchestrated CDNL bias.

So many 'new posters' crawling out of the Sixfields broom cupboard peddling the slow death of our clubs last chance of ever building up our clubs infrastructure that allow us to escape the basement division.

The weirdest thing is despite the well planned division created by cdnl/ thomas and his employees...We all want exactly the same thing and I will prove it here..

WHAT WE ALL WANT...
1. A finished East stand an acceptable standard.
2 A 2000 capacity increase ro the South stand to maximise on the dozen bigger games when playing in L1, which improves the coffers as well as match day atmosphere giving Sixfields a more professional look and must visit feel.
3. Improved matchday experience, fan Village and easy access food and beverages kiosk in say a 30m buffer zone to separate the football stadium from the vast warehousing proposed.

All the above would attract more supporters than the non league loking 1990s current version of Sixfields..

So are we all in agreement? .....     (*)

If yes, 👍 great and even more surprising the cost of all the above is £1,000.000 less than Thomas's estimated cost of fitting 10 boxes to the east stand!
So even CDNL/Thomas has to be happy with the above.

Next step, make Cdnl/thomas and the WNC aware that the Town and the supporters of Northampton town are UNITED behind an agreed amount just £5m of development from the £20,000.000 that cdnl/ thomas stand to make from the sale of 23 acres of prime redevelopment land surrounding Sixfields stadium.

Anyone against these easily implemented proposals?
Have you proof of this? Been asked to provide a quote for some plasterboarding and carlite browning?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 05, 2023, 11:39:07 am
Cilldara coming along is just one of many many variables that could have developed in the time DB and Mrs DB bought the club for a pound and a tax bill.
Why did they do that?
There was no land to purchase when they rode into town so are we expected to believe that they massively got their sums wrong and thought they could buck the trend and make a profit from little old NTFC, or was it down to Dave's egotistical nature and his affinity for the Cobblers?  All I've heard from certain posters is that a league two club loses a million quid a year on average and we've always been bang average, so which is it? I can only think that it's the former as the evidence is that DB keeps an extremely low profile.
If we are looking for reasons why the devil also rode into town let's not forget they were in talks to buy the club for months, but according to some DB got greedy and upped the asking price. So who introduced the tiger into the room, because your scape goat, the Trust board didn't. Maybe the Tiger had his own keys then or maybe the clubs owner actively sought buyers out and found him.
Businesses fail time and again, indeed several that DB has been involved with have. Let's not look any further than our owners lack of acumen if we need someone to blame for the club going tits up.


What would you have valued the club at when purchased and what were the acceptable terms for that purchase in your opinion.
When you say you are hearing from some posters that the average losses are 1 million per annum that would be me. However I am just quoting what is the most reliable source for the data. It seems to be a source of irritation for those that are trying to demonstrate a failure or inadequacy on the part of the owners.
Whilst they could obviously have pumped far more into the club to match some of the other benefactor type owners, there apparently wasn’t one readily available when the club was days away from liquidation. In the continuing absence of one it seems that the only type of owner available to us is one that is in a position to cover their losses. If this is not the case what model would you suggest is an acceptable alternative whilst sustaining the current losses?
Whilst the investor business model in the EFL is far from ideal, to suggest that the owners are rapacious and nothing more appears to be a bit contradictory to many supporters. Given the contracts offered and the continuing finance of the playing squad. Which are average for the division and we are seemingly always competitive at this level. How would you justify that accusation given the apparent contradiction?
As purely a return on investment how would you justify the development of the ground given the apparent expenditure required and what percentage of examples of other clubs financially succeed against those that fail as compelling evidence. It would be even more convincing to identify the anticipated attendances required to cover that expenditure over what time frame?

It’s all very well being critical, but if you are then I think you have to propose viable alternatives that you can clearly demonstrate are achievable otherwise they are worthless. The biggest fear for many supporters is the immediate hole in the playing budget should the owners withdraw their financial backing. To date not a single detractor has been able to offer any plan or reassurance to those supporters that the club would be sustainable in their absence. Even the Board of the Trusts ACV plan had no logical way of delivering the finance into the club other than gifting it to the owners.
The fact is what our role should be is custodians of the club to ensure its sustainability rather than an opportunity to indulge oneself and play fantasy football to the potential detriment of its very existence. So if you have to run your mouth off and demand that people chuck a million here and a million there like they are playing monopoly, you should perhaps accompany those criticisms with viable options that might actually work? However I suspect that if it was your own money you would shít your pants and run for it. In your defence, given your apparent lack of even rudimentary viable alternatives that would probably be the best option. So what’s the plan, or are you just another clueless fantasist who has no concept of the potential consequences and risks of their endless unrealistic demands and expectations?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BedsCobb on February 05, 2023, 11:41:29 am
Have you proof of this? Been asked to provide a quote for some plasterboarding and carlite browning?
You being another brand new 'fan' wouldn't have seen it written down but it has been documented/ Suggested/ inferred/quoted   that the fit out will cost an astonishing 5 to 6 million..
Imagine spending £6,000.000 on some cladding, 10 boxes, a bar and some toilets!

Its essential that the supporters of our  football club have the last say as to how our clubs rightful share of its £6,000.000 share is spent, and not the temporary custodians cdnl, aided by the seemingly clueless WNC

It surprises me how we have gone 8 long years fed on just hearsay and crumbs..

If the 'not my trust' boys take over at the trust demanding a finished East stand, a 2000 capacity south stand increase and a buffer zone for a fans zone etc...Great,  go for it.
But if you only want to attack the trust, cutting all our noses off to spite the clubs future, then Please think carefully,  there are games being played by very manipulating people.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3574 on February 05, 2023, 11:54:36 am
You being another brand new 'fan' wouldn't have seen it written down but it has been documented/ Suggested/ inferred/quoted   that the fit out will cost an astonishing 5 to 6 million..
Imagine spending £6,000.000 on some cladding, 10 boxes, a bar and some toilets!

Its essential that the supporters of our  football club have the last say as to how our clubs rightful share of its £6,000.000 share is spent, and not the temporary custodians cdnl, aided by the seemingly clueless WNC

It surprises me how we have gone 8 long years fed on just hearsay and crumbs..

If the 'not my trust' boys take over at the trust demanding a finished East stand, a 2000 capacity south stand increase and a buffer zone for a fans zone etc...Great,  go for it.


But if you only want to attack the trust, cutting all our noses off to spite the clubs future, then Please think carefully,  there are games being played by very manipulating people.


 As usual you don't give an answer to a direct question, not trust bashing just questioning your figures........ show the proof!  :-*


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: MCHammer on February 05, 2023, 12:25:23 pm
If we are looking for reasons why the devil also rode into town let's not forget they were in talks to buy the club for months, but according to some DB got greedy and upped the asking price. So who introduced the tiger into the room, because your scape goat, the Trust board didn't. Maybe the Tiger had his own keys then or maybe the clubs owner actively sought buyers out and found him.
Businesses fail time and again, indeed several that DB has been involved with have. Let's not look any further than our owners lack of acumen if we need someone to blame for the club going tits up.

So for clarity what's your opinion here.  Were the owners wrong to have ever entered into talks with Cilldara?  Was it a bad thing they priced themselves out of the deal, if that's what they actually did?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on February 05, 2023, 12:32:18 pm
Cilldara coming along is just one of many many variables that could have developed in the time DB and Mrs DB bought the club for a pound and a tax bill.
Why did they do that?
There was no land to purchase when they rode into town so are we expected to believe that they massively got their sums wrong and thought they could buck the trend and make a profit from little old NTFC, or was it down to Dave's egotistical nature and his affinity for the Cobblers?  All I've heard from certain posters is that a league two club loses a million quid a year on average and we've always been bang average, so which is it? I can only think that it's the former as the evidence is that DB keeps an extremely low profile.
If we are looking for reasons why the devil also rode into town let's not forget they were in talks to buy the club for months, but according to some DB got greedy and upped the asking price. So who introduced the tiger into the room, because your scape goat, the Trust board didn't. Maybe the Tiger had his own keys then or maybe the clubs owner actively sought buyers out and found him.
Businesses fail time and again, indeed several that DB has been involved with have. Let's not look any further than our owners lack of acumen if we need someone to blame for the club going tits up.



The land was known about right from the DC era.

I have no idea why you are assuming that in any way I am extolling the virtues of the way the club is run. I have no idea of the intricacies or detail involved in running a league football club. Unlike most business, football appear to take on a model of its own. Where on the whole, significant debt is not frowned upon.

But, as I keep trying to address, but seemingly appear oblivious to it, that cannot excuse the supporters Trust of NORTHAMPTON TOWN getting into bed with a property developer who is at odds with the club their members support. As I said earlier. We have heard numerous boasts from current and past Trust board members, and those who think alike, that KT and DB were in fact lucky to have acquired the seemingly basket case at the time. A club who had seen it financial reputation shot. Sat in the middle of a major fraud enquiry, and effectively dead in the water. Apparently we was awash with wealthy folk, who were dying to spend their millions on the club. Well… Where the fùck were they all when the Trust needed them.

As I have said I genuinely believe that the Trust board had every right to invoke the ACV. But to take this much worshipped parcel of land, the very epicentre of their entire argument, and bargain with it with a totally unaffiliated property developer, when they brag like Beds, of this queue of interested people, beggars belief.

I stand by my point. If Cildara win the JR. The club will suffer huge damage. We will never know if the land would have serviced any debt, or indeed been used to further the club. We will just lose the entire lot, to the TRUST BOARDS PREFERRED BIDDER.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 05, 2023, 13:38:29 pm
What would you have valued the club at when purchased and what were the acceptable terms for that purchase in your opinion.
When you say you are hearing from some posters that the average losses are 1 million per annum that would be me. However I am just quoting what is the most reliable source for the data. It seems to be a source of irritation for those that are trying to demonstrate a failure or inadequacy on the part of the owners.
Whilst they could obviously have pumped far more into the club to match some of the other benefactor type owners, there apparently wasn’t one readily available when the club was days away from liquidation. In the continuing absence of one it seems that the only type of owner available to us is one that is in a position to cover their losses. If this is not the case what model would you suggest is an acceptable alternative whilst sustaining the current losses?
Whilst the investor business model in the EFL is far from ideal, to suggest that the owners are rapacious and nothing more appears to be a bit contradictory to many supporters. Given the contracts offered and the continuing finance of the playing squad. Which are average for the division and we are seemingly always competitive at this level. How would you justify that accusation given the apparent contradiction?
As purely a return on investment how would you justify the development of the ground given the apparent expenditure required and what percentage of examples of other clubs financially succeed against those that fail as compelling evidence. It would be even more convincing to identify the anticipated attendances required to cover that expenditure over what time frame?

It’s all very well being critical, but if you are then I think you have to propose viable alternatives that you can clearly demonstrate are achievable otherwise they are worthless. The biggest fear for many supporters is the immediate hole in the playing budget should the owners withdraw their financial backing. To date not a single detractor has been able to offer any plan or reassurance to those supporters that the club would be sustainable in their absence. Even the Board of the Trusts ACV plan had no logical way of delivering the finance into the club other than gifting it to the owners.
The fact is what our role should be is custodians of the club to ensure its sustainability rather than an opportunity to indulge oneself and play fantasy football to the potential detriment of its very existence. So if you have to run your mouth off and demand that people chuck a million here and a million there like they are playing monopoly, you should perhaps accompany those criticisms with viable options that might actually work? However I suspect that if it was your own money you would shít your pants and run for it. In your defence, given your apparent lack of even rudimentary viable alternatives that would probably be the best option. So what’s the plan, or are you just another clueless fantasist who has no concept of the potential consequences and risks of their endless unrealistic demands and expectations?

You are in my opinion, massively complicating things here with the above.
You have replied but you still haven't addressed the question, why did DB buy NTFC? You have stated several times that a football club is a business first and foremost. You have highlighted a doom laden view that many league club are about to go to the wall. To the contrary, our owners are either philanthropists or they are out to turn a profit whilst running the club. I dont think you view them as philanthropic so in your mind it has to be the later. You as a businessman who would not buy a football club as a going concern, so why did they? Did they not read the same Deloitte reports or hold the same views as you do?
I don't need to come up with a viable alternative that's not my remit, I'm simply questioning the sanity and business acumen of the man who bought the club I support because you have drawn my attention to it, whilst at the same time attempting to put the point across that any number of variables could have happened since takeover and the only people who could have had any direct influence on those variables are the people who own and run the club. They are the ones in charge and it is their job to respond to any given situation. They must have been aware of that when they came in.
Forget how Cilldara became involved in events although we can pontificate, to blame them or the Trust for the current parlous state of the club accounts and its future is fatuous. What should be examined is how the club has been governed and run these past 7 years.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 05, 2023, 13:41:48 pm
So for clarity what's your opinion here.  Were the owners wrong to have ever entered into talks with Cilldara?  Was it a bad thing they priced themselves out of the deal, if that's what they actually did?
I don't have an opinion. Perhaps we should ask were the club owners wrong to have bought the club if financially this is the best stab they can make of it?
I have no idea if they priced themselves out of a deal with Cildara anymore than I know what KT had for breakfast this morning. Why do you want to know that?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 05, 2023, 13:58:37 pm
The land was known about right from the DC era.

I have no idea why you are assuming that in any way I am extolling the virtues of the way the club is run. I have no idea of the intricacies or detail involved in running a league football club. Unlike most business, football appear to take on a model of its own. Where on the whole, significant debt is not frowned upon.

But, as I keep trying to address, but seemingly appear oblivious to it, that cannot excuse the supporters Trust of NORTHAMPTON TOWN getting into bed with a property developer who is at odds with the club their members support. As I said earlier. We have heard numerous boasts from current and past Trust board members, and those who think alike, that KT and DB were in fact lucky to have acquired the seemingly basket case at the time. A club who had seen it financial reputation shot. Sat in the middle of a major fraud enquiry, and effectively dead in the water. Apparently we was awash with wealthy folk, who were dying to spend their millions on the club. Well… Where the fùck were they all when the Trust needed them.

As I have said I genuinely believe that the Trust board had every right to invoke the ACV. But to take this much worshipped parcel of land, the very epicentre of their entire argument, and bargain with it with a totally unaffiliated property developer, when they brag like Beds, of this queue of interested people, beggars belief.

I stand by my point. If Cildara win the JR. The club will suffer huge damage. We will never know if the land would have serviced any debt, or indeed been used to further the club. We will just lose the entire lot, to the TRUST BOARDS PREFERRED BIDDER.
I'll take your word that the land was known about since DC but unless you tell me otherwise I'm sticking with the idea that it wasn't up for sale when DB took over. Calculating the land would come up for sale sometime in the future and that it was then going to be his to purchase was probably not the wisest of assumptions.
I have never said you extoll the virtues of the way the club is run, nor do I assume you do.. Why do you think that?
If as you say the club suffers huge damage if Cilldara win the JR the blame should not be apportioned to them or the Trust, but the owners.
Why do you blame Cilldara? They are a business out to make money just as DB is? You seem to think The Trust have given them a leg up. If that's the case KT badly misjudged the situation in his dealings with the Trust. Don't blame a third party for taking advantage of someone's fcuk up.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: singcobb on February 05, 2023, 14:36:23 pm
As usual you don't give an answer to a direct question, not trust bashing just questioning your figures........ show the proof!  :-*

You'll have upset him now asking for fact and figures. He wont be back for another couple of months(hopefully more).


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BedsCobb on February 05, 2023, 15:10:18 pm
As usual you don't give an answer to a direct question, not trust bashing just questioning your figures........ show the proof!  :-*
It was said by the owner that is what it would cost, like you, I know that's nonsense.. They're his figures, go  ask him.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BedsCobb on February 05, 2023, 15:30:38 pm
The land was known about right from the DC era.

I have no idea why you are assuming that in any way I am extolling the virtues of the way the club is run. I have no idea of the intricacies or detail involved in running a league football club. Unlike most business, football appear to take on a model of its own. Where on the whole, significant debt is not frowned upon.

But, as I keep trying to address, but seemingly appear oblivious to it, that cannot excuse the supporters Trust of NORTHAMPTON TOWN getting into bed with a property developer who is at odds with the club their members support. As I said earlier. We have heard numerous boasts from current and past Trust board members, and those who think alike, that KT and DB were in fact lucky to have acquired the seemingly basket case at the time. A club who had seen it financial reputation shot. Sat in the middle of a major fraud enquiry, and effectively dead in the water. Apparently we was awash with wealthy folk, who were dying to spend their millions on the club. Well… Where the fùck were they all when the Trust needed them.

As I have said I genuinely believe that the Trust board had every right to invoke the ACV. But to take this much worshipped parcel of land, the very epicentre of their entire argument, and bargain with it with a totally unaffiliated property developer, when they brag like Beds, of this queue of interested people, beggars belief.

I stand by my point. If Cildara win the JR. The club will suffer huge damage. We will never know if the land would have serviced any debt, or indeed been used to further the club. We will just lose the entire lot, to the TRUST BOARDS PREFERRED BIDDER.
So basically the choice is simple,  lose the land to cdnl or Cilldara...either way we're up s***creek.
Fortunately nothing is set in stone and the football club , its supporters and general public could have a massive sway as our club getting a fair share of any land pay out.

With a vastly divided supporters base now and it looking like game set and match for CDNL/ Cilldara to pick the flesh from our bones ..but I don't see it like that, despite some councillors showing ignorance of our club beyond comprehension, some are aware and not comfortable with how our clubs future growth is  danger of disappearing, they know waiting 20 year for 10 boxes is laughable and will demand much more for our club, which in turn will rally the town of Northampton to back its clubs fight for a decent amount of redevelopment and expansion.
As previously pointed out we all want the same thing and with a united front, cdnl/ thomas or Cilldara will have to oblige the towns demands for them to get what they want.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on February 05, 2023, 15:50:44 pm
Stan,  have you noticed that at no time have you spoke of what it is you want from this development and hopes you have for our clubs future you claim to have supported since the mid 80s..All you have done in your 2 dozen posts is vehemently attacked the trust..So for that reason I have your cards marked as a 'plant' possibly another cdnl/ broom cupboard assassin..?
Am I right?
I want the owners of the club to get the land, develop it and put the money back into the club whilst also getting their fair share. I also want a Trust who represent the fans and not 3-4 fan boys and then dismiss the rest as being ignorant.
At least I think thats why KT told me to say.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: random1 on February 05, 2023, 15:58:22 pm
I want the owners of the club to get the land, develop it and put the money back into the club whilst also getting their fair share. I also want a Trust who represent the fans and not 3-4 fan boys and then dismiss the rest as being ignorant.
At least I think thats why KT told me to say.

funny enough thats what the Trust want(ed) trouble is the club and the council changed and complicated the agreement to do that

How much should the owners get v the club (bear in mind that the owners have not given 1p to the club, its all loans



Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3574 on February 05, 2023, 16:00:37 pm
It was said by the owner that is what it would cost, like you, I know that's nonsense.. They're his figures, go  ask him.
I asked you! For all you know I might be in full agreement with the owner........ Assume nothing


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3574 on February 05, 2023, 16:03:20 pm
funny enough thats what the Trust want(ed) trouble is the club and the council changed and complicated the agreement to do that

How much should the owners get v the club (bear in mind that the owners have not given 1p to the club, its all loans



How much do you think the owners should get?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: MCHammer on February 05, 2023, 16:39:58 pm
Forget how Cilldara became involved in events although we can pontificate, to blame them or the Trust for the current parlous state of the club accounts and its future is fatuous. What should be examined is how the club has been governed and run these past 7 years.

There's a whole redevelopment thread spanning nearly 2000 pages where people have been doing exactly that.  This thread was about the Trust withdrawing their bid for the ACV.  All you've contributed so far is the usual diversionary tactic of "don't look at this cause something much worse happening over there."

You'd surely agree that one party acting badly wouldn't excuse the other doing so as well?
 
In fact I don't recall seeing your views on the Trust bid.  Were you in full support?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: MCHammer on February 05, 2023, 16:56:02 pm
I don't have an opinion. Perhaps we should ask were the club owners wrong to have bought the club if financially this is the best stab they can make of it?
I have no idea if they priced themselves out of a deal with Cildara anymore than I know what KT had for breakfast this morning. Why do you want to know that?

Didn't think they were hard questions. Just tying to understand where you are coming from.  Do you think the owners were wrong to have negotiations with Cilldara?  I didn't ask if you thought they had priced themselves out of the deal I asked if you thought it was a bad thing if they had?

You are the one that brought this up and you seem to be implying the owners are at fault for doing so.  I'm trying to understand what you are saying they have done wrong in that specific situation.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BedsCobb on February 05, 2023, 17:40:24 pm
I want the owners of the club to get the land, develop it and put the money back into the club whilst also getting their fair share. I also want a Trust who represent the fans and not 3-4 fan boys and then dismiss the rest as being ignorant.
At least I think thats why KT told me to say.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BedsCobb on February 05, 2023, 17:51:26 pm
I want the owners of the club to get the land, develop it and put the money back into the club whilst also getting their fair share. I also want a Trust who represent the fans and not 3-4 fan boys and then dismiss the rest as being ignorant.
At least I think thats why KT told me to say.
So let me get this straight,  Your priority for our clubs future is to see these land speculators get all the land first and foremost then on the off chance they have surplus cash from the mega deal afford an unspecified amount just on tarting up the hemmed in East stand and nothing else?

Have I got that right? Is this all what the 'not my trust ' boys want?

Please reply , I'm genuinely intrigued.



Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3574 on February 05, 2023, 18:23:54 pm
Don't feed the troll


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 05, 2023, 18:34:06 pm
There's a whole redevelopment thread spanning nearly 2000 pages where people have been doing exactly that.  This thread was about the Trust withdrawing their bid for the ACV.  All you've contributed so far is the usual diversionary tactic of "don't look at this cause something much worse happening over there."

You'd surely agree that one party acting badly wouldn't excuse the other doing so as well?
 
In fact I don't recall seeing your views on the Trust bid.  Were you in full support?
I got drawn into this thread when I replied to BOTN on page 9.
He suggested that the relationship between the owners and the Trust board had completely broken down and that because the owners weren't going away anytime soon the Trust board should, and be replaced by others.
My point was the dialogue is between the owners and Trust not theTrust board, they are not a separate entity inspite of what yiu and others may think. The breakdown in relations is because the board fundamentally disagreed with KT, not because they were impolite to him or anyone else. So the suggestion of replacing one board with another only works if the new board continue to be yes men, and the moment someone comes in who opposes him we would be back to square one.
Appointing a board whose priority is to agree with the club owner is no way to run a Trust.
Yes, 2000 pages, but you cannot seperate the redev from the board withdrawing their bid, the two are intrinsically linked. Its not like two entirely separate matchday threads.
I was in full support of the board, not because I agreed with their bid, like everyone else I wasn't party to that, but I do Trust them to do what they think is best for the club.
With hindsight? There's no point even discussing that is there, it never did anyone any good.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 05, 2023, 18:49:02 pm
Didn't think they were hard questions. Just tying to understand where you are coming from.  Do you think the owners were wrong to have negotiations with Cilldara?  I didn't ask if you thought they had priced themselves out of the deal I asked if you thought it was a bad thing if they had?

You are the one that brought this up and you seem to be implying the owners are at fault for doing so.  I'm trying to understand what you are saying they have done wrong in that specific situation.
Not hard questions, what were they again?
I have no opinion on whether the owners were wrong to negoiate...why should it be wrong to negotiate with anyone?
But let's not try and fool anyone, the reason the deal didn't go through was nothing to do with any idealistic principle it was cold hard economics.
I'm not implying I'm clearly stating that the owners should not be looking beyond themselves when trying to apportion blame should they not get what they want.
I'll ask you a question....do you think the owners would be in a better position now, financially, if they had committed to finishing the east stand like they alluded they would do, when they took over?
I'll answer my own question to give you some4hing to bounce off. I do, I think if they had done so the land deal would have been over the line years ago, but the fear that they could spend 4 million on development without gain prevented them from doing so, and perversly, not doing so has now led to the very real possibility that they will lose out on many millions more.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on February 05, 2023, 19:39:48 pm
So in simple terms please explain the benefit to the club and fans to Cilldara getting almost all the land compared to KT and DB getting it.
What will the club benefit from KT and DB owning the land?
What will the club benefit from Cilldara / Trust owning the land?

In fact I will help you out with how I see the situation and you tell where I am wrong....
What will the club benefit from KT and DB owning the land? - Somewhere between £0 and millions with a possibility the stand may be finished
What will the club benefit from Cilldara / Trust owning the land? - Somewhere between £0 and £250k and the stand definitely not finished.
Beds, think this  answers your question. Please tell me where I am wrong


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 05, 2023, 20:00:17 pm
You are in my opinion, massively complicating things here with the above.
You have replied but you still haven't addressed the question, why did DB buy NTFC? You have stated several times that a football club is a business first and foremost. You have highlighted a doom laden view that many league club are about to go to the wall. To the contrary, our owners are either philanthropists or they are out to turn a profit whilst running the club. I dont think you view them as philanthropic so in your mind it has to be the later. You as a businessman who would not buy a football club as a going concern, so why did they? Did they not read the same Deloitte reports or hold the same views as you do?
I don't need to come up with a viable alternative that's not my remit, I'm simply questioning the sanity and business acumen of the man who bought the club I support because you have drawn my attention to it, whilst at the same time attempting to put the point across that any number of variables could have happened since takeover and the only people who could have had any direct influence on those variables are the people who own and run the club. They are the ones in charge and it is their job to respond to any given situation. They must have been aware of that when they came in.
Forget how Cilldara became involved in events although we can pontificate, to blame them or the Trust for the current parlous state of the club accounts and its future is fatuous. What should be examined is how the club has been governed and run these past 7 years.
As I said, without offering alternative proposals any commentary is worthless because it doesn’t demonstrate a viable alternative is possible. I have no idea why they bought the club, but any assumptions are irrelevant because as your post demonstrates they are the only game in town so there isn’t an alternative. A football club isn’t a business first and foremost. What it should be is something of cultural and historical importance that should be protected. However, at this point in time they are not and as such they need to be financially viable or they are at risk. Your post simply confirms to me that yourself and those like you are significantly more dangerous than the current owners who are financing the club without exposing it  to external debt. Whilst not ideal, in my book and the majority of supporters that is far better option than following someone like yourself who demands everything, but offers nothing.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 05, 2023, 21:05:12 pm
As I said, without offering alternative proposals any commentary is worthless because it doesn’t demonstrate a viable alternative is possible. I have no idea why they bought the club, but any assumptions are irrelevant because as your post demonstrates they are the only game in town so there isn’t an alternative. A football club isn’t a business first and foremost. What it should be is something of cultural and historical importance that should be protected. However, at this point in time they are not and as such they need to be financially viable or they are at risk. Your post simply confirms to me that yourself and those like you are significantly more dangerous than the current owners who are financing the club without exposing it  to external debt. Whilst not ideal, in my book and the majority of supporters that is far better option than following someone like yourself who demands everything, but offers nothing.
On a separate note you put your spin and misdirection into your post as you do everything else you spew. As you said David Bower has been involved in businesses that have failed. This may be as a result of him being an incompetent fool. However it may be as a result of some other reason. For example when we set up our business in Australia we were in the UK. However, to do this you need a Director in Australia. Therefore we engaged someone of similar standing to be a Director and took out an insurance to indemnify them against any exposure to risk until I arrived to take up the position. They had absolutely no involvement in the decision making or planning of the business, so would have not been responsible in any way for the performance or failure of the business.
This may or not be the reason, merely a possibility. Now I know you know this scenario exists but still you look to peddle half truths and your misdirection. As stated if the owners withdraw we are at risk of financial failure. However, to be fair once they have repaid the debt from the land and made any other revenue they may similarly withdraw financial support. So what’s my plan for that possibility?
As stated what I would do is engage myself in conversations with the club and council and seek to bank any money intended for the East Stand instead of the folly of demanding it’s finished to some unidentified standard. In the event that figure was 3 million that could buy us some breathing space and bankroll us for 3 years if the unforeseen should occur. That’s my plan, what’s yours?
It’s the difference between being responsible and pragmatic and hysterical and reckless. Much like the Trusts unworkable ACV proposal you deal with the problem in front of you without any thought for the contingencies as the various scenarios play out. It’s the reason why yourself and those like you shouldn’t be let within a million miles of the decision making process that affects our club.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 05, 2023, 21:38:53 pm
As I said, without offering alternative proposals any commentary is worthless because it doesn’t demonstrate a viable alternative is possible. I have no idea why they bought the club, but any assumptions are irrelevant because as your post demonstrates they are the only game in town so there isn’t an alternative. A football club isn’t a business first and foremost. What it should be is something of cultural and historical importance that should be protected. However, at this point in time they are not and as such they need to be financially viable or they are at risk. Your post simply confirms to me that yourself and those like you are significantly more dangerous than the current owners who are financing the club without exposing it  to external debt. Whilst not ideal, in my book and the majority of supporters that is far better option than following someone like yourself who demands everything, but offers nothing.
Thanks for answering the question.
You have no idea because it doesn't make any sense. A football club isn't a business first and foremost for us as supporters but to the owners, if they are not there and prepared to bank role for similar reasons, it must be.
Why am I significantly more dangerous? This is my opinion, nothing else. I'm not demanding anything just commenting on whose at fault for the position the club currently finds itself in.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 05, 2023, 21:57:21 pm
Thanks for answering the question.
You have no idea because it doesn't make any sense. A football club isn't a business first and foremost for us as supporters but to the owners, if they are not there and prepared to bank role for similar reasons, it must be.
Why am I significantly more dangerous? This is my opinion, nothing else. I'm not demanding anything just commenting on whose at fault for the position the club currently finds itself in.
You are more dangerous because you seek to influence opinion and lobby people to achieve an unidentifiable potentially reckless outcome. I know my posts come across as somber but I can assure you they are not. The naivety and incompetence of your thought processes are humorous and embarrassing in equal measure. I don’t mean this as an insult, I’m sure you have your areas of expertise but trust me this is not one of them. I don’t seek to change your opinion on this, you are clearly too blinkered and too committed to your illogical path to make any concessions, irrespective of how reasonable the alternative may be, much like the members of the Trust Board. However perhaps the ordinary humble members may have a decision to make and I am simply drawing attention to the shortcomings in your arguments and opinions. Ultimately they may get the opportunity to decide on balance which of us holds the preferable view. I’m more than confident regarding what that decision will be from the vast majority of reasonable people.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 05, 2023, 22:01:34 pm
On a separate note you put your spin and misdirection into your post as you do everything else you spew. As you said David Bower has been involved in businesses that have failed. This may be as a result of him being an incompetent fool. However it may be as a result of some other reason. For example when we set up our business in Australia we were in the UK. However, to do this you need a Director in Australia. Therefore we engaged someone of similar standing to be a Director and took out an insurance to indemnify them against any exposure to risk until I arrived to take up the position. They had absolutely no involvement in the decision making or planning of the business, so would have not been responsible in any way for the performance or failure of the business.
This may or not be the reason, merely a possibility. Now I know you know this scenario exists but still you look to peddle half truths and your misdirection. As stated if the owners withdraw we are at risk of financial failure. However, to be fair once they have repaid the debt from the land and made any other revenue they may similarly withdraw financial support. So what’s my plan for that possibility?
As stated what I would do is engage myself in conversations with the club and council and seek to bank any money intended for the East Stand instead of the folly of demanding it’s finished to some unidentified standard. In the event that figure was 3 million that could buy us some breathing space and bankroll us for 3 years if the unforeseen should occur. That’s my plan, what’s yours?
It’s the difference between being responsible and pragmatic and hysterical and reckless. Much like the Trusts unworkable ACV proposal you deal with the problem in front of you without any thought for the contingencies as the various scenarios play out. It’s the reason why yourself and those like you shouldn’t be let within a million miles of the decision making process that affects our club.
If you think I'm spinning anything you are completely wrong. I have every reason to think David Bower is absolutely not a fool. You might be surprised to learn that I was almost alone on this board in saying the same of David Cardoza at a time when many were labelling him a buffoon though that's not to say I had any respect for him.
'Now I know you know this scenario exists' ermmm, no, no clue I'm afraid but thanks for enlightening me. And I'm peddling nothing, not even a bike.
'As stated what I would do....' Yep, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that approach so far as I can see, but I don't know what that as got to do with this discussion. I also don't think there's a cat in halls chance of 3 million being donated to the club by anyone in the event the owners walk with every penny they can. Why would the council lob another 3 million in the dir3ction of Sixfields? What's my plan? I don't have one but common sense tells me whoever is in charge of the club in whatever form it finds itself in does something no previous chairman in my memory has and that is live within the means of the budget or income coming in. If that means non league football, although that flys against a key Trust tenet, so be it.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 05, 2023, 22:09:46 pm
You are more dangerous because you seek to influence opinion and lobby people to achieve an unidentifiable potentially reckless outcome. I know my posts come across as somber but I can assure you they are not. The naivety and incompetence of your thought processes are humorous and embarrassing in equal measure. I don’t mean this as an insult, I’m sure you have your areas of expertise but trust me this is not one of them. I don’t seek to change your opinion on this, you are clearly too blinkered and too committed to your illogical path to make any concessions, irrespective of how reasonable the alternative may be, much like the members of the Trust Board. However perhaps the ordinary humble members may have a decision to make and I am simply drawing attention to the shortcomings in your arguments and opinions. Ultimately they may get the opportunity to decide on balance which of us holds the preferable view. I’m more than confident regarding what that decision will be from the vast majority of reasonable people.
LOL, I'm not seeking to influence and I'm not lobbying anyone. I'm simply responding on a forum when at this moment in time in particular I probably should be watching MOTD2.
All I ask you to do is take a step backwards, strip yourself of all of your previous experience of 'stuff', and  ask yourself how DB and by extension the club really find themselves in the financial position they (appear) to be in, when examined from a balance sheet.
Btw, did anyone get you that surf board yet?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 05, 2023, 22:53:59 pm
If you think I'm spinning anything you are completely wrong. I have every reason to think David Bower is absolutely not a fool. You might be surprised to learn that I was almost alone on this board in saying the same of David Cardoza at a time when many were labelling him a buffoon though that's not to say I had any respect for him.
'Now I know you know this scenario exists' ermmm, no, no clue I'm afraid but thanks for enlightening me. And I'm peddling nothing, not even a bike. Fantastic, well now you do perhaps you would like to offer an apology for insinuating at incompetence without knowledge of the full facts
'As stated what I would do....' Yep, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that approach so far as I can see, but I don't know what that as got to do with this discussion. I also don't think there's a cat in halls chance of 3 million being donated to the club by anyone in the event the owners walk with every penny they can. Why would the council lob another 3 million in the dir3ction of Sixfields? What are you talking about, you are insisting that they complete the stand. If there’s no chance of them donating the 3 million then they won’t be donating it towards finishing the stand either, that makes your demands irrelevant and pointless? What's my plan? I don't have one but common sense tells me whoever is in charge of the club in whatever form it finds itself in does something no previous chairman in my memory has and that is live within the means of the budget or income coming in. If that means non league football, although that flys against a key Trust tenet, so be it. Exactly, no plan or clue, thanks for confirming
We’ll there you have it, yet another load of contradictory gobbledygook that serves no purpose other than the remonstrations of a petulant child not getting their way with no thought or care for the consequences. Well over my dead body are you getting a free ride influencing popular opinion towards steering the club towards potential oblivion. I think that sentiment could be applied to many others and thankfully the numbers appear to be growing. Sorry if this is an inconvenience and source of irritation for you.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 05, 2023, 23:25:47 pm
LOL, I'm not seeking to influence and I'm not lobbying anyone. I'm simply responding on a forum when at this moment in time in particular I probably should be watching MOTD2.
All I ask you to do is take a step backwards, strip yourself of all of your previous experience of 'stuff', and  ask yourself how DB and by extension the club really find themselves in the financial position they (appear) to be in, when examined from a balance sheet.
Btw, did anyone get you that surf board yet?

Again you seem to struggle with contemplating anything other than what’s immediately in front of you. Forget your somewhat unhealthy obsession with Kelvin Thomas and David Bower. What may happen beyond their tenure and how do you maximise any protections for the club that go beyond a lovely stand to look at? Please try and understand and apply some logic to this situation at some point in our future. You have little control or influence over the owners. Stamping your feet and shouting about morality hasn’t been particularly productive to date. So what can you control or influence? I’m not saying my proposal is fool proof or without risk. However, what I do know is your commentary is about as useful in this debate as the reference to my surf board.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 05, 2023, 23:40:25 pm
 »
Quote
Quote from: Worthless Recluse on Yesterday at 23:01:34
If you think I'm spinning anything you are completely wrong. I have every reason to think David Bower is absolutely not a fool. You might be surprised to learn that I was almost alone on this board in saying the same of David Cardoza at a time when many were labelling him a buffoon though that's not to say I had any respect for him.
'Now I know you know this scenario exists' ermmm, no, no clue I'm afraid but thanks for enlightening me. And I'm peddling nothing, not even a bike. * Fantastic, well now you do perhaps you would like to offer an apology for insinuating at incompetence without knowledge of the full facts *
'As stated what I would do....' Yep, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that approach so far as I can see, but I don't know what that as got to do with this discussion. I also don't think there's a cat in halls chance of 3 million being donated to the club by anyone in the event the owners walk with every penny they can. Why would the council lob another 3 million in the dir3ction of Sixfields? *What are you talking about, you are insisting that they complete the stand. If there’s no chance of them donating the 3 million towards that either making your demands irrelevant?* What's my plan? I don't have one but common sense tells me whoever is in charge of the club in whatever form it finds itself in does something no previous chairman in my memory has and that is live within the means of the budget or income coming in. If that means non league football, although that flys against a key Trust tenet, so be it. * Exactly, no plan or clue, thanks for confirming *
*We’ll there you have it, yet another load of contradictory gobbledygook that serves no purpose other than the remonstrations of a petulant child not getting their way with no thought or care for the consequences. Well over my dead body are you getting a free ride steering popular opinion towards steering the club towards potential oblivion. I think that sentiment could be applied to many others and thankfully the numbers appear to be growing*

*Fantastic........etc*
You want me to make an apology for what? You introduce some spurious argument about installing an overseas director and now claim that I am insinuating incompetence but I'm not even sure who you are referring to? I haven't insinuated DB is incompetent. I have questioned why he bought the club...know one seems to be able to answer that. The club is apparently 7 million quid in debt and someone is responsible for that, how is that not not incompetent? I'm flabbergasted that you don't see it that way, almost every post of yours concerns club finance.

*You are insisting they complete the stand.....* Jeez Melbourne, you presented a scenario where the owners walk without leaving the club anything after the land saga is over. You then came out with your contingency plan suggesting you'd talk and somehow find someone willing to donate another 3 million. Do you seriously think anyone...you suggest the council, will give the club 3 million?

*Exactly, no plan.....* So adjusting the budget and living within your means is not a plan? You must think NTFC only survives as a league club at all costs then. Bang wrong, we all want league football but it's not a prerequisite for club survival.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 05, 2023, 23:51:32 pm
Again you seem to struggle with contemplating anything other than what’s immediately in front of you. Forget your somewhat unhealthy obsession with Kelvin Thomas and David Bower. What may happen beyond their tenure and how do you maximise any protections for the club that go beyond a lovely stand to look at? Please try and understand and apply some logic to this situation at some point in our future. You have little control or influence over the owners. Stamping your feet and shouting about morality hasn’t been particularly productive to date. So what can you control or influence? I’m not saying my proposal is fool proof or without risk. However, what I do know is your commentary is about as useful in this debate as the reference to my surf board.
I have an unhealthy obsession with KT and DB do I?
I'll be honest Melbourne, I have an obsession with yours and others obsession with the Trust being responsible for every ill this side of the Nene. I even read someone say Brian Lomax would not be approving of the Trust boards actions these past few months. I can't believe how utterly wrong some people can get all of this.
Sorry if my quip about your surfboard was facile and childish, I'll try to prevent myself from descending into absurdist talk in the future  ;)




Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 06, 2023, 00:39:22 am
So, this is a quote directly attributed to you only yesterday “Businesses fail time and again, indeed several that DB has been involved with have. Let's not look any further than our owners lack of acumen if we need someone to blame for the club going tits up.” How in your head is this quote from yourself not an insinuation of incompetence and the lack of ability and judgment on the part of David Bower.

The avoidable misfortunes of the board of the Trust have nothing to do with me or anyone else and they were warned time and time again of the dangers they were facing. Much like yourself they took the decision to bury their head in the sand. However, all that got them was a chunk bitten out of their exposed arsè. The Board of the Trusts fate was sealed the minute they decided that their opinion and subsequent decisions took precedence over the majority will of the membership. This is of course with the exception of the invoking of the ACV which they misconstrued as license to do what they want when they want without further notice.

Now I could once again go piecemeal through this nonsense as I have above and highlight your endless contradictions and absurdities that demonstrate just how far out of your comfort zone and depth you are. However, I believe there is enough here already to expose you for who and what you are and what you represent and the dangers in following your logic to reasonable people. Therefore I am content to leave it here. Your tenacity whilst impressive is tiresome and pointless. I’m sorry this situation terrifies you, perhaps if you were able to communicate your points in a credible manner that instills a shred of reassurance in the majority you may get somewhere. Unfortunately for you you can’t and you won’t as you are kindly obliging to continually demonstrate.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 06, 2023, 08:08:38 am
So, this is a quote directly attributed to you only yesterday “Businesses fail time and again, indeed several that DB has been involved with have. Let's not look any further than our owners lack of acumen if we need someone to blame for the club going tits up.” How in your head is this quote from yourself not an insinuation of incompetence and the lack of ability and judgment on the part of David Bower.

The avoidable misfortunes of the board of the Trust have nothing to do with me or anyone else and they were warned time and time again of the dangers they were facing. Much like yourself they took the decision to bury their head in the sand. However, all that got them was a chunk bitten out of their exposed arsè. The Board of the Trusts fate was sealed the minute they decided that their opinion and subsequent decisions took precedence over the majority will of the membership. This is of course with the exception of the invoking of the ACV which they misconstrued as license to do what they want when they want without further notice.

Now I could once again go piecemeal through this nonsense as I have above and highlight your endless contradictions and absurdities that demonstrate just how far out of your comfort zone and depth you are. However, I believe there is enough here already to expose you for who and what you are and what you represent and the dangers in following your logic to reasonable people. Therefore I am content to leave it here. Your tenacity whilst impressive is tiresome and pointless. I’m sorry this situation terrifies you, perhaps if you were able to communicate your points in a credible manner that instills a shred of reassurance in the majority you may get somewhere. Unfortunately for you you can’t and you won’t as you are kindly obliging to continually demonstrate.
Yes, that is a part of a message I posted yesterday, in response to others stating we should crucify the Trust board if armageddon hits and professional football ends in Northampton.
Does it make more sense to you when put in that context?
Others are looking to apportion blame, I suggested they look to man at the top of the organisation they are saying will face huge change.
I've got no business acumen but this isn't rocket science. Like I said before, let's not over complicate things.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on February 06, 2023, 08:13:25 am
I have an obsession with yours and others obsession with the Trust being responsible for every ill this side of the Nene.
I have been very critical of the Trust but I dont blame them for everything. KT and DB also have a lot to answer for but the Trust never take responsibility and always blame everyone else, including the fans. This polorising all or nothing response is pathetic. There are lots of good things the club are doing at the moment but certain people always find a way to belittle it or claim its just them pulling the wool over out eyes. They are doing a f***ing great job at it as they have also conned many award panels

I even read someone say Brian Lomax would not be approving of the Trust boards actions these past few months.
Agree this was completely wrong.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 06, 2023, 08:18:43 am
I have been very critical of the Trust but I dont blame them for everything. KT and DB also have a lot to answer for but the Trust never take responsibility and always blame everyone else, including the fans. This polorising all or nothing response is pathetic. There are lots of good things the club are doing at the moment but certain people always find a way to belittle it or claim its just them pulling the wool over out eyes. They are doing a f***ing great job at it as they have also conned many award panels
Agree this was completely wrong.
Welcome to the party Stanley.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on February 06, 2023, 08:25:03 am
Welcome to the party Stanley.
Thanks, been here a while but just lurking in the corner.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on February 06, 2023, 08:36:26 am
So basically the choice is simple,  lose the land to cdnl or Cilldara...either way we're up s***creek.


Potentially yes. But on one hand we have the owners of a football club, who want to use the land for property development. Then on the other have, you have an organisation that absolutely no affiliation whatsoever with NTFC. Even if we assume that they are both just interested in the land, logic and common sense would dictate that you would want the owners to get it. As much as none of us know if KT & DB would use the revenue constructively, we absolutely now there is not one single benefit to NTFC to get into bed with Cildara.

Perhaps either you or Worthless recluse, could answer one question. What were the advantages of the Trust board aligning themselves with Cildara?     


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BackOfTheNet on February 06, 2023, 09:09:17 am
Potentially yes. But on one hand we have the owners of a football club, who want to use the land for property development. Then on the other have, you have an organisation that absolutely no affiliation whatsoever with NTFC. Even if we assume that they are both just interested in the land, logic and common sense would dictate that you would want the owners to get it. As much as none of us know if KT & DB would use the revenue constructively, we absolutely now there is not one single benefit to NTFC to get into bed with Cildara.



This is precisely the point.

KT & DB win = some chance part of the profits will be reinvested in the club

Cildara win = zero chance of any of the profits being reinvested in the club

It's surely a no brainer, isn't it?

As much as certain people like to paint me as someone who mindlessly "copy and pastes" propaganda from the club, I've no idea of KT & DB's intentions, however if they and the council are to be taken at their word and the completion of the East Stand is written into the final contract, the worst case scenario is they make a token effort in completing the stand and then swan off with the balance. This isn't great and would leave the club desperately in need of a new owner, but at least it would be a marginally more attractive proposition than a club playing in a stadium with a half built stand that would need finishing at some point.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on February 06, 2023, 09:13:35 am
This is precisely the point.

KT & DB win = some chance part of the profits will be reinvested in the club

Cildara win = zero chance of off any of the profits being reinvested in the club

It's surely a no brainer, isn't it?

As much as certain people like to paint me as someone who mindlessly "copy and pastes" propaganda from the club, I've no idea of KT & DB's intentions, however if they and the council are to be taken at their word and the completion of the East Stand is written into the final contract, the worst case scenario is they make a token effort in completing the stand and then swan off with the balance. This isn't great and would leave the club desperately in need of a new owner, but at least it would be a marginally more attractive proposition than a club playing in a stadium with a half built stand that would need finishing at some point.
Its the question I cant get past as well.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Risdene on February 06, 2023, 09:19:19 am
This is precisely the point.

KT & DB win = some chance part of the profits will be reinvested in the club

Cildara win = zero chance of off any of the profits being reinvested in the club

It's surely a no brainer, isn't it?

As much as certain people like to paint me as someone who mindlessly "copy and pastes" propaganda from the club, I've no idea of KT & DB's intentions, however if they and the council are to be taken at their word and the completion of the East Stand is written into the final contract, the worst case scenario is they make a token effort in completing the stand and then swan off with the balance. This isn't great and would leave the club desperately in need of a new owner, but at least it would be a marginally more attractive proposition than a club playing in a stadium with a half built stand that would need finishing at some point.

Totally agree.

In DB/KT we hope!


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 06, 2023, 09:22:24 am
Yes, that is a part of a message I posted yesterday, in response to others stating we should crucify the Trust board if armageddon hits and professional football ends in Northampton.
Does it make more sense to you when put in that context?
Others are looking to apportion blame, I suggested they look to man at the top of the organisation they are saying will face huge change.
I've got no business acumen but this isn't rocket science. Like I said before, let's not over complicate things.

So let’s simplify it. The owners are blocked by the judicial review withdraw their support and leave. Or the take their profits from the land and leave. How is the club to support itself or is the plan to cross our fingers and hope someone steps forward?

On a separate note I have said this before but yet again find myself having to go through this. You said the following.
“The club is apparently 7 million quid in debt and someone is responsible for that, how is that not not incompetent? I'm flabbergasted that you don't see it that way, almost every post of yours concerns club finance.”

Why is the 7 million debt relevant in any conceivable way?

Scenario 1. The owners get their hands on the land and for arguments sake make 10 million. They pay off the 7 million debt and pocket the remaining 3 million.

Scenario 2. There is no debt. The owners get their hands on the land make 10 million and pocket the lot.

What difference does it make to the supporters of the club which scenario it is? Because it is a debt to the owners it has zero impact either way. They are probably going to leave with as much as they can carry, because they can and it’s neither illegal or against any rules so there is sod all you can do about it other than support a bid to allow a competitor to profit from the land. Why is this basic concept so difficult to grasp for some. I’m flabbergasted you’re flabbergasted.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 06, 2023, 09:38:38 am
Genuine question.
Does anyone know or would anyone like to hazard a guess what would have happened to the club if Cilldara had purchased the club from DB, and more generally how things would have panned out regards the surrounding land?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on February 06, 2023, 09:41:52 am
Genuine question.
Does anyone know or would anyone like to hazard a guess what would have happened to the club if Cilldara had purchased the club from DB, and more generally how things would have panned out regards the surrounding land?
Obviously not. Whats the point?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 06, 2023, 09:53:36 am
So let’s simplify it. The owners are blocked by the judicial review withdraw their support and leave. Or the take their profits from the land and leave. How is the club to support itself or is the plan to cross our fingers and hope someone steps forward?

On a separate note I have said this before but yet again find myself having to go through this. You said the following.
“The club is apparently 7 million quid in debt and someone is responsible for that, how is that not not incompetent? I'm flabbergasted that you don't see it that way, almost every post of yours concerns club finance.”

Why is the 7 million debt relevant in any conceivable way?

Scenario 1. The owners get their hands on the land and for arguments sake make 10 million. They pay off the 7 million debt and pocket the remaining 3 million.

Scenario 2. There is no debt. The owners get their hands on the land make 10 million and pocket the lot.

What difference does it make to the supporters of the club which scenario it is? Because it is a debt to the owners it has zero impact either way. They are probably going to leave with as much as they can carry, because they can and it’s neither illegal or against any rules so there is sod all you can do about it other than support a bid to allow a competitor to profit from the land. Why is this basic concept so difficult to grasp for some. I’m flabbergasted you’re flabbergasted.
Regards the 7 million, that's easy unless you tell me otherwise. I'm willing to learn.
There's an adjunct to scenario 2. The owners don't pocket the lot, they give some of it to the club to do 'stuff' with.
Currently people are hoping against hope that the owners use some of the profit to benefit the club. If that transpires then having a debt which they service first massively impacts on what they might do thereafter.

Part one, a very real possibility. Which I why I would ask others to consider why the club actually finds itself facing that scenario and if that should reflect the our (the Trusts) approach towards the owners.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 06, 2023, 09:56:49 am
Obviously not. Whats the point?
Because its been assumed by all to be beyond the realms of possibility that Cilldara would have been anything but bad for the club had they bought it.
I'm wondering exactly why that is? Do people base their judgement on Cilldaras area of business expertise alone?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on February 06, 2023, 09:58:43 am
Because its been assumed by all to be beyond the realms of possibility that Cilldara would have been anything but bad for the club had they bought it.
I'm wondering exactly why that is? Do people base their judgement on Cilldaras area of business expertise alone?
I dont have an opinion either way about Cilldara buying the club. They didnt so its irrelevant.
I do have an opinion about someone who doesnt own the club buying the land that could be bought by the people who do own it.

If you are just engaging in polite chit chat then I dont think they would have done anything other than maintained the status quo and then left when the development was finished. Bit like the situation we are in now.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on February 06, 2023, 11:01:57 am
Genuine question.
Does anyone know or would anyone like to hazard a guess what would have happened to the club if Cilldara had purchased the club from DB, and more generally how things would have panned out regards the surrounding land?

Missing the point again.

The Trust board joined ranks with Cildara after they had allegedly approach KT & DB and had been turned away. So what relevance does your question have to the Trust boards choice. There joint offer with Cildara, was nothing to do with buying, or funding the future of the club. So can you please answer my question as to why they partnered up with Cildara.   


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 06, 2023, 11:15:22 am
Regards the 7 million, that's easy unless you tell me otherwise. I'm willing to learn.
There's an adjunct to scenario 2. The owners don't pocket the lot, they give some of it to the club to do 'stuff' with.
Currently people are hoping against hope that the owners use some of the profit to benefit the club. If that transpires then having a debt which they service first massively impacts on what they might do thereafter.

Part one, a very real possibility. Which I why I would ask others to consider why the club actually finds itself facing that scenario and if that should reflect the our (the Trusts) approach towards the owners.
I’m desperately trying not to be confrontational but the debt won’t matter a jot. They will take as much as they can and the label you hang on it is irrelevant. If the owners are to finish the stand as a condition drafted by the council why not use that money as a contingency for supporting the club rather than finishing the stand, something you ridiculed yesterday. At least give the options to the members of the Trust and then engage in some dialog with the council and please god the owners so the stand can be completed to a satisfactory standard or any revenue intended for that task can be given to the club as an insurance against any instability.
Of course the real challenge is that the current board members have thoroughly burnt the bridge and have lost so much credibility with the council and the owners it is probably impossible to work with each other in a constructive way. For me this is why the current board have to stand down. If the club is to get the best possible outcome from this then all parties have to be able to work together. I understand this is going to be  a point of contention for some but that was the chance they took when they chose the path they did and there is no way back. At least in my opinion.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 06, 2023, 11:17:44 am
Missing the point again.

The Trust board joined ranks with Cildara after they had allegedly approach KT & DB and had been turned away. So what relevance does your question have to the Trust boards choice. There joint offer with Cildara, was nothing to do with buying, or funding the future of the club. So can you please answer my question as to why they partnered up with Cildara.   
None. But I now sense that's an area you'd rather not go down.
What's the board joining ranks with Cilldara actually got to do with the thread title if we want to get picky? (an area I've already been picked up on here but since it appears it's one rule for me and another for others I'll ask it.
You'll have to ask someone who had something to do with that to get a factual answer, if one hasn't already been provided.
Do you want my opinion on the same subject?...I'll give you mine if you give me yours.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 06, 2023, 11:21:38 am
I dont have an opinion either way about Cilldara buying the club. They didnt so its irrelevant.
I do have an opinion about someone who doesnt own the club buying the land that could be bought by the people who do own it.

If you are just engaging in polite chit chat then I dont think they would have done anything other than maintained the status quo and then left when the development was finished. Bit like the situation we are in now.
It is just chit chat Stan.
I agree, in my opinion they would likely have maintained the status quo. Exactly.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: DavCobb on February 06, 2023, 11:28:17 am
They joined forces with Cilldara to try and obtain the ACV land, at any cost. They seem to think this mythical gold mine is the key to a success and prosperous future.

The unfortunate thing is that now talk has flipped over to having our fingers crossed that the owners don’t shaft us, pocket the proceeds and do a runner. Let’s at least maintain the view that they’ll finish the stand before they load up their saddle bags.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest2995 on February 06, 2023, 11:31:55 am
my question is …
Once the land deal goes through , warehouses are built , the stand is finished to minimum spec ….  and everyone gets their money plus we get a four sided ground ….
Then what ?
Who will then be interested in things moving forwards ?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3574 on February 06, 2023, 11:36:05 am
The trust board's work is being done by those sowing discord and doubt, I believe it's called hybrid warfare. The trust board got into bed with property developers who proceeded to shaft them, they then cried that WNC demanded guarantees from them! For such a highly qualified group, they've been totally naive.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: DrillingCobbler on February 06, 2023, 11:43:53 am
my question is …
Once the land deal goes through , warehouses are built , the stand is finished to minimum spec ….  and everyone gets their money plus we get a four sided ground ….
Then what ?
Who will then be interested in things moving forwards ?

A (very) rare interjection from me on this subject!

The sooner the above happens, as far as I'm concerned the bloody better. Since The Cardoza's showed up (20 odd years ago or whenever it was) our club has been the porn in a land deal. Until the land 'is gone' that will remain the case.

I reckon history will show that Football Clubs and land deals do not end well. Not for the football clubs themselves, that is.

When the land is gone, we will end up with owners (whoever they are) who are here purely for the football club itself. Because why wouldn't we? There wouldn't be anything in it for a group/individual hoping to make a profit.

Say we'd hung onto the ACV land. In my opinion and my opinion only, that would have dragged things along for evermore.

I have what I believe to be a minority view of looking at it. That' s fine because it's all very subjective, anyway!




Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: EB Claret on February 06, 2023, 11:56:21 am
Genuine question.
Does anyone know or would anyone like to hazard a guess what would have happened to the club if Cilldara had purchased the club from DB, and more generally how things would have panned out regards the surrounding land?

I obviously don't know what would have happened so I'll hazard a guess.
I guess that Cilldara would have bought the football club because the club owned the leases to all the land.
Next step would be to buy the land to which they now hold all the leases including the ACV land.
The football club would then be an unwanted inconvenience, so sell it, possibly for a pound and build warehouses on all the land including the ACV area.
The new owners are then left with an unfinished football stadium, completely hemmed in by warehouses.
Cilldara walk away smiling whilst counting their profit.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: DavCobb on February 06, 2023, 12:00:06 pm
A (very) rare interjection from me on this subject!

The sooner the above happens, as far as I'm concerned the bloody better. Since The Cardoza's showed up (20 odd years ago or whenever it was) our club has been the porn in a land deal. Until the land 'is gone' that will remain the case.

I reckon history will show that Football Clubs and land deals do not end well. Not for the football clubs themselves, that is.

When the land is gone, we will end up with owners (whoever they are) who are here purely for the football club itself. Because why wouldn't we? There wouldn't be anything in it for a group/individual hoping to make a profit.

Say we'd hung onto the ACV land. In my opinion and my opinion only, that would have dragged things along for evermore.

I have what I believe to be a minority view of looking at it. That' s fine because it's all very subjective, anyway!


No need to bring porn into it  :P

I think you actually hold the majority view. When the council built Sixfields, no one said “Ooh, that plot of toxic wasteland will bankroll the club in the future.”

The sooner a line is drawn under it, the sooner we can see what we’re left with. Maybe the Trust can find a new partner who wants to play football chairman. We’ve always been assured there’s plenty of interest.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Manwork04 on February 06, 2023, 12:23:47 pm
No need to bring porn into it  :P

I think you actually hold the majority view. When the council built Sixfields, no one said “Ooh, that plot of toxic wasteland will bankroll the club in the future.”

The sooner a line is drawn under it, the sooner we can see what we’re left with. Maybe the Trust can find a new partner who wants to play football chairman. We’ve always been assured there’s plenty of interest.
There is FACT.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Alfred on February 06, 2023, 12:25:19 pm
my question is …
Once the land deal goes through , warehouses are built , the stand is finished to minimum spec ….  and everyone gets their money plus we get a four sided ground ….
Then what ?
Who will then be interested in things moving forwards ?
Maybe,  just Maybe it will be the people who are running it now,  who if you speak to the staff that work for him is doing a pretty good job.  The sale of the land unlocks the future,  with bleak if NTFC don't get the land or a more positive future if we do.

If, post Cardoza we end up debt free with a 4 sided ground then that might be the best,  worst outcome we can hope for.  


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3574 on February 06, 2023, 12:28:34 pm
FACTS can be proven, care to share?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Manwork04 on February 06, 2023, 12:32:14 pm
Maybe,  just Maybe it will be the people who are running it now,  who if you speak to the staff that work for him is doing a pretty good job.  The sale of the land unlocks the future,  with bleak if NTFC don't get the land or a more positive future if we do.

If, post Cardoza we end up debt free with a 4 sided ground then that might be the best,  worst outcome we can hope for.  
Didn’t we have a four sided ground before Dozy and KT arrived, except in a much better condition?
Oh and adequate hard standing car park. The infrastructure at sixseats has gone exponentially backwards FACT.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on February 06, 2023, 12:32:23 pm
None. But I now sense that's an area you'd rather not go down.


I very much doubt that. Unlike most I have offered my opinion in person to the Trust, they chose not to take the offer up. I did the same with KT. He was a lot more receptive to constructive criticism.

I get the feeling you are starting to see this as you holding a bit of an audience. I have no need for that. So I'm going to bow out for a while, and let those who deal better with those who's oxygen is attention.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Terryfenwickatemyhamster on February 06, 2023, 12:34:47 pm
A (very) rare interjection from me on this subject!

The sooner the above happens, as far as I'm concerned the bloody better. Since The Cardoza's showed up (20 odd years ago or whenever it was) our club has been the porn in a land deal. Until the land 'is gone' that will remain the case.

I reckon history will show that Football Clubs and land deals do not end well. Not for the football clubs themselves, that is.

When the land is gone, we will end up with owners (whoever they are) who are here purely for the football club itself. Because why wouldn't we? There wouldn't be anything in it for a group/individual hoping to make a profit.

Say we'd hung onto the ACV land. In my opinion and my opinion only, that would have dragged things along for evermore.

I have what I believe to be a minority view of looking at it. That' s fine because it's all very subjective, anyway!




Here here


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Alfred on February 06, 2023, 12:42:01 pm
Didn’t we have a four sided ground before Dozy and KT arrived, except in a much better condition?
Oh and adequate hard standing car park. The infrastructure at sixseats has gone exponentially backwards FACT.

and there are 10 million reasons why


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3574 on February 06, 2023, 12:52:50 pm
I very much doubt that. Unlike most I have offered my opinion in person to the Trust, they chose not to take the offer up. I did the same with KT. He was a lot more receptive to constructive criticism.

I get the feeling you are starting to see this as you holding a bit of an audience. I have no need for that. So I'm going to bow out for a while, and let those who deal better with those who's oxygen is attention.
Wise words, too easy to get sucked in


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BedsCobb on February 06, 2023, 13:15:40 pm
Beds, think this  answers your question. Please tell me where I am wrong
I'm afraid you're very much wrong.

Cildarra/ cdnl thomas want as much land at Sixfields for as little outlay as they can get away with..
 Which of these very bad deals is the better one is not really a question that should ever be entertainment.
As the Football club of Northampton is part of the Sixfields landscape, its supporters and local folk have an absolute right to demand better than what is being offered, which at this moment 8 years on is nothing at all!

If one or the other could broker a deal that includes and guarantees the following...
1 . A finished East stand to a satisfactory completion.
2. 2000 capacity increase to the south side of the stadium.
3. A buffer zone between the warehouse and football stadium of 30m to be used for the clubs use , fan Village,  kids football tournament,  etc..

Then they have my and everywhere ntfc fans full support.

As you didn't disagree with the above,I can now assume you too are a fan of ntfc and not as I feared, a plant to divide and weaken  the support base thus allowing cdnl a walk over to vast amounts of undeserved riches.
Please accept my apologies as we head forward in a united front seeking only what's best for Northampton Town and not greedy speculators.





Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest2995 on February 06, 2023, 13:32:29 pm
Maybe,  just Maybe it will be the people who are running it now,  who if you speak to the staff that work for him is doing a pretty good job.  The sale of the land unlocks the future,  with bleak if NTFC don't get the land or a more positive future if we do.

If, post Cardoza we end up debt free with a 4 sided ground then that might be the best,  worst outcome we can hope for.  
I am not saying you are wrong or that it’s not a happy camp .
But you are making some assumptions there .
Mainly that everyone will maintain interest once the money is through and that it will benefit us .
i wish i shared your optimism


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BackOfTheNet on February 06, 2023, 13:36:09 pm
I'm afraid you're very much wrong.

Cildarra/ cdnl thomas want as much land at Sixfields for as little outlay as they can get away with..
 Which of these very bad deals is the better one is not really a question that should ever be entertainment.
As the Football club of Northampton is part of the Sixfields landscape, its supporters and local folk have an absolute right to demand better than what is being offered, which at this moment 8 years on is nothing at all!

If one or the other could broker a deal that includes and guarantees the following...
1 . A finished East stand to a satisfactory completion.
2. 2000 capacity increase to the south side of the stadium.
3. A buffer zone between the warehouse and football stadium of 30m to be used for the clubs use , fan Village,  kids football tournament,  etc..

Then they have my and everywhere ntfc fans full support.

As you didn't disagree with the above,I can now assume you too are a fan of ntfc and not as I feared, a plant to divide and weaken  the support base thus allowing cdnl a walk over to vast amounts of undeserved riches.
Please accept my apologies as we head forward in a united front seeking only what's best for Northampton Town and not greedy speculators.



You know the provisional plans the club have submitted show a 50m gap between the ground and the warehouse development, right?

We as fans can demand all we want, we have no clout whatsoever though so it's all just so much noise. To paraphrase Bad Santa, wish into one hand and shìt into the other, see which one fills up first."


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: random1 on February 06, 2023, 13:53:13 pm
A (very) rare interjection from me on this subject!

The sooner the above happens, as far as I'm concerned the bloody better. Since The Cardoza's showed up (20 odd years ago or whenever it was) our club has been the porn in a land deal. Until the land 'is gone' that will remain the case.

I reckon history will show that Football Clubs and land deals do not end well. Not for the football clubs themselves, that is.

When the land is gone, we will end up with owners (whoever they are) who are here purely for the football club itself. Because why wouldn't we? There wouldn't be anything in it for a group/individual hoping to make a profit.

Say we'd hung onto the ACV land. In my opinion and my opinion only, that would have dragged things along for evermore.

I have what I believe to be a minority view of looking at it. That' s fine because it's all very subjective, anyway!




Hi Drilling, I could understand and agree with what you said if the ACV bit was a big portion of the enabling development but it isn't.

There are 18 other acres to develop and profit from

So surely its not too much to ask to keep the ACV in the club's back pocket for future investment?

IMHO It comes down to pure greed and no interest in the medium / long term future of NTFC.

It wouldn't be so bad if we knew EXACTLY what NTFC & supporters would gain from a: the whole deal and B: the ACV bit

But of course we don't - nothing in terms of details despite KT having a media team and local media on speed dial.




Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: random1 on February 06, 2023, 13:56:02 pm
I obviously don't know what would have happened so I'll hazard a guess.
I guess that Cilldara would have bought the football club because the club owned the leases to all the land.
Next step would be to buy the land to which they now hold all the leases including the ACV land.
The football club would then be an unwanted inconvenience, so sell it, possibly for a pound and build warehouses on all the land including the ACV area.
The new owners are then left with an unfinished football stadium, completely hemmed in by warehouses.
Cilldara walk away smiling whilst counting their profit.

You can very easily replace Cildara with KT / DC but instead of paying circa £6m, they would have paid £1 (to DC), £166k to HMRC and £870k to WNC


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: random1 on February 06, 2023, 14:03:18 pm
No need to bring porn into it  :P

I think you actually hold the majority view. When the council built Sixfields, no one said “Ooh, that plot of toxic wasteland will bankroll the club in the future.”

The sooner a line is drawn under it, the sooner we can see what we’re left with. Maybe the Trust can find a new partner who wants to play football chairman. We’ve always been assured there’s plenty of interest.

There has been plenty of interest but each time the buyers walk away with very strong rumours of bad business practice (ie changing the price) each time.

You only have to look into the whole Chinese saga and you will find a deal like no other

And that is the problem today, would not be surprised if Cildara and KT were working together again - no evidence but all very strange lately - starting with KT insisting I clarify if the £3m investment funds are actually in our bank account.

3 weeks later or so, Cildara, who up to that point had played a very straight bat & reliable, suddenly moved the pitch (let alone the goal posts) and strangely was followed up by McBride declaring they were our investment partners, despite previously insisting on watertight non disclosure.

Very strange - might be me & 2+2= 367 but it could be closer to 4.  and then what???

 


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: MCHammer on February 06, 2023, 14:06:57 pm
I wonder why some Trust supporting folk are spending so much time telling everyone to "look over the there, nothing to see here".

It's because there is still plenty to see here from a Trust Board perspective.  Anyone remember when Random turned up a few days ago offering to answer any questions anyone had.  He answered two questions then made a swift exit.  Now I know and the Trust Board know there is a whole bunch more to this story.  I've had no legal threats so far which probably tells it's own story.

Anyone remember the phrases open, honest and accountable.  Protecting the existence of the football club.

They weren't even going to tell you their partner was Cilldara let alone everything else they had been up to.

Do you reckon Cilldara just turned up and offered the deal?  What was the specific role of the unelected advisor in all of this?  Just an unelected innocent legal advisor.

In fact rather than telling everyone what the agreement was with Cilldara why don't they just pop the Heads Of Terms on their website for everyone to see.

Perhaps they could share the minutes of the secret meetings they were holding just before they put in the bid, explain who they were with and what the purpose of them were?

We know they understood exactly what they were doing and how damaging it would be to the owners and the football club.  Ask them who they were having discussions with to "save the day" from the damage THEY were planning to instigate.  As Tel pointed out the other day if they have a wealthy backer....hint secret meetings....why didn't they just bid for the land with them?  What would be the benefit of seeing the dev land go elsewhere....wonder what the price of the football club would be if it's in chaos and the owners have significant debt with no means of repayment.  Imagine how many years you could dine out on saving the day.  

Of course none of the Current Board or advisors will answer this cause the plan all along was to either win the bid or pretend it never happened.  If they did answer they would have to lie or admit some pretty unpalatable truths.  A very curious way to conduct yourselves as the elected/unelected represntatives of a membership organisation don't you think.  

Can't think of a single reason why anyone would call for their resignation.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: random1 on February 06, 2023, 14:08:11 pm
You know the provider plans the club have submitted show a 50m gap between the ground and the warehouse development, right?

We as fans can demand all we want, we have no clout whatsoever though so it's all just so much noise. To paraphrase Bad Santa, wish into one hand and shìt into the other, see which one fills up first."

Thats ok then is it BOTN, 50m of tarmac rather than 150m ?  

how much are we getting for the sale of the 100m or so?  and how are you so sure it is a good deal?

The plans show the biggest warehouse partly on ACV land and a small car park - wow that will really help us in the short, medium or long term

My bet is that not 1m of tarmac will be laid by KT/DB


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: random1 on February 06, 2023, 14:11:45 pm
I wonder why some Trust supporting folk are spending so much time telling everyone to "look over the there, nothing to see here".

It's because there is still plenty to see here from a Trust Board perspective.  Anyone remember when Random turned up a few days ago offering to answer any questions anyone had.  He answered two questions then made a swift exit.  Now I know and the Trust Board know there is a whole bunch more to this story.  I've had no legal threats so far which probably tells it's own story.

Anyone remember the phrases open, honest and accountable.  Protecting the existence of the football club.

They weren't even going to tell you their partner was Cilldara let alone everything else they had been up to.

Do you reckon Cilldara just turned up and offered the deal?  What was the specific role of the unelected advisor in all of this?  Just an unelected innocent legal advisor.

In fact rather than telling everyone what the agreement was with Cilldara why don't they just pop the Heads Of Terms on their website for everyone to see.

Perhaps they could share the minutes of the secret meetings they were holding just before they put in the bid, explain who they were with and what the purpose of them were?

We know they understood exactly what they were doing and how damaging it would be to the owners and the football club.  Ask them who they were having discussions with to "save the day" from the damage THEY were planning to instigate.  As Tel pointed out the other day if they have a wealthy backer....hint secret meetings....why didn't they just bid for the land with them?  What would be the benefit of seeing the dev land go elsewhere....wonder what the price of the football club would be if it's in chaos and the owners have significant debt with no means of repayment.  Imagine how many years you could dine out on saving the day.  

Of course none of the Current Board or advisors will answer this cause the plan all along was to either win the bid or pretend it never happened.  If they did answer they would have to lie or admit some pretty unpalatable truths.  A very curious way to conduct yourselves as the elected/unelected represntatives of a membership organisation don't you think.  

Can't think of a single reason why anyone would call for their resignation.

Thats great MC, for balance why not think about all the KT stuff and post your observations - then we can really see what the Trust did what it did.

and again it was not signed, sealed and delivered, it was part of an ongoing process to at least keep the Trust / supporters with some potential say on things.

That has almost disappeared now, it will be gone completely if we all resign.

You really have the upmost faith in KT to deliver and Tuscan Tom to hold him to account?   


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BackOfTheNet on February 06, 2023, 14:20:56 pm
Thats ok then is it BOTN, 50m of tarmac rather than 150m ?  

how much are we getting for the sale of the 100m or so?  and how are you so sure it is a good deal?

The plans show the biggest warehouse partly on ACV land and a small car park - wow that will really help us in the short, medium or long term

My bet is that not 1m of tarmac will be laid by KT/DB

I wasn't talking about any of that. Beds said there should be 30m left between the ground and the warehousing. I pointed out there were 50m shown in the provisional plans, so presumably that more than meets his requirements.

I posted some examples of the scale of building that could fit into a gap that size a couple of weeks ago, I think. There is more than adequate room being left for future expansion.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BackOfTheNet on February 06, 2023, 14:26:20 pm


You really have the upmost faith in KT to deliver and Tuscan Tom to hold him to account?   

Derek, do you realise how petty and childish it makes you sound when you continually refer to Tom like that?

If you really feel the need to do it, can you at least learn how to spell Tucson? Every time you say Tuscan Tom I picture him in beige robes, standing on the front of a landspeeder and bellowing as he waves his gaffii stick in the air...


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Tabasco Kid on February 06, 2023, 14:30:16 pm
Thats ok then is it BOTN, 50m of tarmac rather than 150m ?  

how much are we getting for the sale of the 100m or so?  and how are you so sure it is a good deal?

The plans show the biggest warehouse partly on ACV land and a small car park - wow that will really help us in the short, medium or long term

My bet is that not 1m of tarmac will be laid by KT/DB
As you refused to answer me last time, I will try again. What is the master plan that you have for the land, and can you convince me that it is better than the warehouse options.
A straight answer will suffice, without resorting to throwing questions back at me. Thank you.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: MCHammer on February 06, 2023, 14:31:16 pm
Thats great MC, for balance why not think about all the KT stuff and post your observations - then we can really see what the Trust did what it did.

and again it was not signed, sealed and delivered, it was part of an ongoing process to at least keep the Trust / supporters with some potential say on things.

That has almost disappeared now, it will be gone completely if we all resign.

You really have the upmost faith in KT to deliver and Tuscan Tom to hold him to account?   

See no answers...no denials though either which again says something.  Just more "look over there" and "they behaved badly so we can too".

Just answer the questions.  Be honest, transparent and accountable like you committed to, rather than trying to distract everyone in a different direction.

By the way are you standing for election this time?  Feels like you have been a co-opt for ages?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BedsCobb on February 06, 2023, 14:32:56 pm
Potentially yes. But on one hand we have the owners of a football club, who want to use the land for property development. Then on the other have, you have an organisation that absolutely no affiliation whatsoever with NTFC. Even if we assume that they are both just interested in the land, logic and common sense would dictate that you would want the owners to get it. As much as none of us know if KT & DB would use the revenue constructively, we absolutely now there is not one single benefit to NTFC to get into bed with Cildara.

Perhaps either you or Worthless recluse, could answer one question. What were the advantages of the Trust board aligning themselves with Cildara?     
It could be the thing that breaks the cycle of despair hanging over our club these past 8 years?
Cdnl have arsed about enough.. this could force them to show their hand, not that I think they have anything to show. Enough is enough.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on February 06, 2023, 14:44:46 pm
I'm afraid you're very much wrong.

Cildarra/ cdnl thomas want as much land at Sixfields for as little outlay as they can get away with..
 Which of these very bad deals is the better one is not really a question that should ever be entertainment.
As the Football club of Northampton is part of the Sixfields landscape, its supporters and local folk have an absolute right to demand better than what is being offered, which at this moment 8 years on is nothing at all!

If one or the other could broker a deal that includes and guarantees the following...
1 . A finished East stand to a satisfactory completion.
2. 2000 capacity increase to the south side of the stadium.
3. A buffer zone between the warehouse and football stadium of 30m to be used for the clubs use , fan Village,  kids football tournament,  etc..

Then they have my and everywhere ntfc fans full support.

As you didn't disagree with the above,I can now assume you too are a fan of ntfc and not as I feared, a plant to divide and weaken  the support base thus allowing cdnl a walk over to vast amounts of undeserved riches.
Please accept my apologies as we head forward in a united front seeking only what's best for Northampton Town and not greedy speculators.

Not sure what I didnt disgree but thank you for rubber stamping my fan card.
I see my mistake now, I was only considering the two real options that are in play, not a fantasifull wish list. Apologies. I agree with your wish list.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Tabasco Kid on February 06, 2023, 15:10:05 pm
And yet again, Del Boy is off without answering my perfectly reasonable question. At least the Worthless Recluse stands his ground, whilst losing his dialogue with Melbourne. (In my eyes anyway)
And by the way WR, with your choice of words, you are really starting to sound like a politician.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3574 on February 06, 2023, 15:24:58 pm
And yet again, Del Boy is off without answering my perfectly reasonable question. At least the Worthless Recluse stands his ground, whilst losing his dialogue with Melbourne. (In my eyes anyway)
And by the way WR, with your choice of words, you are really starting to sound like a politician.
West Ham?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3574 on February 06, 2023, 15:30:07 pm
Derek, do you realise how petty and childish it makes you sound when you continually refer to Tom like that?

If you really feel the need to do it, can you at least learn how to spell Tucson? Every time you say Tuscan Tom I picture him in beige robes, standing on the front of a landspeeder and bellowing as he waves his gaffii stick in the air...

I had visions of a Piazza in a small Tuscan town, cafes and Gelaterie surrounding it and a fountain in the centre  ;)


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: DavCobb on February 06, 2023, 15:32:47 pm

3 weeks later or so, Cildara, who up to that point had played a very straight bat & reliable, suddenly moved the pitch (let alone the goal posts) and strangely was followed up by McBride declaring they were our investment partners, despite previously insisting on watertight non disclosure.

Very strange - might be me & 2+2= 367 but it could be closer to 4.  and then what???
 

The Trust falling out with people seems to be the common denominator.
In the case of the above, there is a couple of options. You could either take legal action against them or publish details of the ‘deal’ to make it a little more transparent.
It all sounds very dodgy…unless 2+2 = 367? I can’t believe it is over a 100m strip of desolate wasteland.
Any view on the comment that the Trust joined forces with Cilldara to obtain the ACV land at any cost or impact on the ownership?
Also there seems to be conflicting stories of who dumped who.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Tabasco Kid on February 06, 2023, 15:38:45 pm
West Ham?

I believe that he may have a tattoo confirming this.  ;)


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3574 on February 06, 2023, 15:46:57 pm
I believe that he may have a tattoo confirming this.  ;)
Allegedly  ;D


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: DavCobb on February 06, 2023, 15:48:16 pm
I believe that he may have a tattoo confirming this.  ;)

Sounds as though you’re accusing WR of being the filling of a Morris/Binley sandwich.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BedsCobb on February 06, 2023, 15:48:41 pm
I wasn't talking about any of that. Beds said there should be 30m left between the ground and the warehousing. I pointed out there were 50m shown in the provisional plans, so presumably that more than meets his requirements.

I posted some examples of the scale of building that could fit into a gap that size a couple of weeks ago, I think. There is more than adequate room being left for future expansion.
30m from the back of the stand is a good amount for match day and other football related/ fund raising activities, I'm not greedy but 50 is even better.
We just need to all agree a buffer zone is essential for our club to not get hemmed in by a vast warehouse.

What the club sneaked into wnc shows a small amount of car parking for the 10 boxes and a huge warehouse taking up the entire running track.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BedsCobb on February 06, 2023, 15:58:30 pm
You know the provisional plans the club have submitted show a 50m gap between the ground and the warehouse development, right?

We as fans can demand all we want, we have no clout whatsoever though so it's all just so much noise. To paraphrase Bad Santa, wish into one hand and shìt into the other, see which one fills up first."
While the council still have to rubber stamp any such carve up of Sixfields,  we very much still have a say.

We as supporters of NTFC have made no demands as yet, the wnc are currently being corrected as to what 'the club' actually is and to who it's should benefit, ie, the community or the speculators.

Iwill agree things are looking pretty awful for our clubs future and it's development plans but we still have to keep hope.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: MCHammer on February 06, 2023, 16:13:50 pm
30m from the back of the stand is a good amount for match day and other football related/ fund raising activities, I'm not greedy but 50 is even better.
We just need to all agree a buffer zone is essential for our club to not get hemmed in by a vast warehouse.

What the club sneaked into wnc shows a small amount of car parking for the 10 boxes and a huge warehouse taking up the entire running track.

The alarm has just gone off in Trust HQ.  Someone, perhaps without realising, has gone rogue.   ;D ;D 


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3574 on February 06, 2023, 16:15:02 pm
Sounds as though you’re accusing WR of being the filling of a Morris/Binley sandwich.
If the bread fits


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BackOfTheNet on February 06, 2023, 16:19:37 pm
30m from the back of the stand is a good amount for match day and other football related/ fund raising activities, I'm not greedy but 50 is even better.
We just need to all agree a buffer zone is essential for our club to not get hemmed in by a vast warehouse.

What the club sneaked into wnc shows a small amount of car parking for the 10 boxes and a huge warehouse taking up the entire running track.

Mate, that honestly isn't what it shows. Have a look at the document on the WNC planning  portal. The early diagrams in the plan show the two tranches of land and they do indeed go right up to the edge of the stadium.

But then go on and look at figure 8 on page 9 showing the Proposed Layout Plan. The warehouse covers about half of the running track area leaving a 50m wide strip. The plan shows it as car parking but eventually who knows what it could be used for?

If you doubt me then do what I did - go onto Google Maps and use the measuring tool to see how big that chunk of land is.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Tabasco Kid on February 06, 2023, 16:24:13 pm
Allegedly  ;D
Noo, its true. I was told so by an ex skinhead, Leeds supporting bricklayer. Harrington jacket, boots n braces, he had the lot.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 06, 2023, 16:26:15 pm
And yet again, Del Boy is off without answering my perfectly reasonable question. At least the Worthless Recluse stands his ground, whilst losing his dialogue with Melbourne. (In my eyes anyway)
And by the way WR, with your choice of words, you are really starting to sound like a politician.
Disappointed in you Mr T. I had you down as a fan of my straight talking, not Melbournes verbosity. Actually I understand, you're torn, you like my exchange but hold the same views as the renegade surfer. It must be difficult for you.
I know, we've been there before and I fell on my sword to prevent further embarrassment and not for myself.
In answer to the West Ham question, not on my arse or elbow, or anywhere else.

I'm considering another regeneration, having trouble keeping up with all of this dark side stuff.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 06, 2023, 16:28:42 pm
I wonder why some Trust supporting folk are spending so much time telling everyone to "look over the there, nothing to see here".

It's because there is still plenty to see here from a Trust Board perspective.  Anyone remember when Random turned up a few days ago offering to answer any questions anyone had.  He answered two questions then made a swift exit.  Now I know and the Trust Board know there is a whole bunch more to this story.  I've had no legal threats so far which probably tells it's own story.

Anyone remember the phrases open, honest and accountable.  Protecting the existence of the football club.

They weren't even going to tell you their partner was Cilldara let alone everything else they had been up to.

Do you reckon Cilldara just turned up and offered the deal?  What was the specific role of the unelected advisor in all of this?  Just an unelected innocent legal advisor.

In fact rather than telling everyone what the agreement was with Cilldara why don't they just pop the Heads Of Terms on their website for everyone to see.

Perhaps they could share the minutes of the secret meetings they were holding just before they put in the bid, explain who they were with and what the purpose of them were?

We know they understood exactly what they were doing and how damaging it would be to the owners and the football club.  Ask them who they were having discussions with to "save the day" from the damage THEY were planning to instigate.  As Tel pointed out the other day if they have a wealthy backer....hint secret meetings....why didn't they just bid for the land with them?  What would be the benefit of seeing the dev land go elsewhere....wonder what the price of the football club would be if it's in chaos and the owners have significant debt with no means of repayment.  Imagine how many years you could dine out on saving the day.  

Of course none of the Current Board or advisors will answer this cause the plan all along was to either win the bid or pretend it never happened.  If they did answer they would have to lie or admit some pretty unpalatable truths.  A very curious way to conduct yourselves as the elected/unelected represntatives of a membership organisation don't you think.  

Can't think of a single reason why anyone would call for their resignation.
Heavens, you can spin a yarn. Fact or fiction?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 06, 2023, 16:32:14 pm
FACTS can be proven, care to share?
Some people believe a fact is only ever a theory waiting to be disproven.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BackOfTheNet on February 06, 2023, 16:47:45 pm
Beds (and anyone else who's interested!) have a look at this -

https://imgur.com/a/6jmKrsn (https://imgur.com/a/6jmKrsn)

I've picked up the entire bowling alley complex and dropped it into the gap shown on the planning proposal. That's a big chunk of land


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3574 on February 06, 2023, 17:04:28 pm
Some people believe a fact is only ever a theory waiting to be disproven.

dicky groyn............ last heard of stranded mid Atlantic


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3574 on February 06, 2023, 17:07:45 pm
Noo, its true. I was told so by an ex skinhead, Leeds supporting bricklayer. Harrington jacket, boots n braces, he had the lot.
And a bumfluff tash?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Tabasco Kid on February 06, 2023, 17:19:55 pm
And a bumfluff tash?
Now that was a genuine LOL moment! Yes in answer to your question, last heard of somewhere near a caravan park in Lincolnshire, doing what he does best, upsetting the locals at the nearby social club.  ;D


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Tabasco Kid on February 06, 2023, 17:37:53 pm
Disappointed in you Mr T. I had you down as a fan of my straight talking, not Melbournes verbosity. Actually I understand, you're torn, you like my exchange but hold the same views as the renegade surfer. It must be difficult for you.
I know, we've been there before and I fell on my sword to prevent further embarrassment and not for myself.
In answer to the West Ham question, not on my arse or elbow, or anywhere else.

I'm considering another regeneration, having trouble keeping up with all of this dark side stuff.
Not again, dont do that, you dont need to erase your past exchanges with Melbourne. I would rather read your views, than the increasing amount of sh1te that Del boy comes out with.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 06, 2023, 19:34:30 pm
Disappointed in you Mr T. I had you down as a fan of my straight talking, not Melbournes verbosity. Actually I understand, you're torn, you like my exchange but hold the same views as the renegade surfer. It must be difficult for you.
I know, we've been there before and I fell on my sword to prevent further embarrassment and not for myself.
In answer to the West Ham question, not on my arse or elbow, or anywhere else.

I'm considering another regeneration, having trouble keeping up with all of this dark side stuff.
Didnt like that post did you. I’m disappointed but not surprised your ego is so fragile.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 06, 2023, 21:07:38 pm
Not again, dont do that, you dont need to erase your past exchanges with Melbourne. I would rather read your views, than the increasing amount of sh1te that Del boy comes out with.
No worries Saucy. I just thought of another username with phallic oveetones to match D Groyn and Inoff but I'll store that one and stick to having a reclusive nature for now.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 06, 2023, 21:11:42 pm
Didnt like that post did you. I’m disappointed but not surprised your ego is so fragile.
You do take all of this seriously Melbourne. You really think I'm the sensitive sort?
Well bless you. If only you knew the truth of it.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BedsCobb on February 06, 2023, 21:12:07 pm
Not sure what I didnt disgree but thank you for rubber stamping my fan card.
I see my mistake now, I was only considering the two real options that are in play, not a fantasifull wish list. Apologies. I agree with your wish list.
Everything starts as a wish list, this one that all tfc fans agree is the minimum requirement that  is  long overdue,  one that WILL see the light of day as cdnl will now be forced to make it happen as they previously had no pressure to do anything.

The next Q&A will be interesting when thomas is faced with 100s demanding far more than he wants to give from the council's £20,000.000 gift that he wants to preserve for himself.

 


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 06, 2023, 21:13:53 pm
dicky groyn............ last heard of stranded mid Atlantic
Hurrah, not really that difficult though?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 06, 2023, 21:35:10 pm
You do take all of this seriously Melbourne. You really think I'm the sensitive sort?
Well bless you. If only you knew the truth of it.
It really did bother you didn’t it? Don’t worry one of your Minions will be along in a minute to give you a nice cuddle and offer some reassuring words of comfort. The truth is you’re a bully who’s out of their depth overstepped their abilities by a considerable margin and been found out. You lack the strength of character to prioritise the commitment to the members of the Trust before your own ego and insecurities. That’s the truth my friend, now are you prepared to hold up the mirror and face the truth?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BedsCobb on February 06, 2023, 21:35:42 pm
The Trust falling out with people seems to be the common denominator.
In the case of the above, there is a couple of options. You could either take legal action against them or publish details of the ‘deal’ to make it a little more transparent.
It all sounds very dodgy…unless 2+2 = 367? I can’t believe it is over a 100m strip of desolate wasteland.
Any view on the comment that the Trust joined forces with Cilldara to obtain the ACV land at any cost or impact on the ownership?
Also there seems to be conflicting stories of who dumped who.

Desolate wasteland it most certainly isn't 😀

Remembering back to when Thomas invited the local press to see the state of the running track, as if to point out 'how Worthless it is' this despite him being the one to leave it dormant and overgrown for 6  years 😀




Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 06, 2023, 21:37:55 pm
I’m desperately trying not to be confrontational but the debt won’t matter a jot. They will take as much as they can and the label you hang on it is irrelevant. If the owners are to finish the stand as a condition drafted by the council why not use that money as a contingency for supporting the club rather than finishing the stand, something you ridiculed yesterday. At least give the options to the members of the Trust and then engage in some dialog with the council and please god the owners so the stand can be completed to a satisfactory standard or any revenue intended for that task can be given to the club as an insurance against any instability.
Of course the real challenge is that the current board members have thoroughly burnt the bridge and have lost so much credibility with the council and the owners it is probably impossible to work with each other in a constructive way. For me this is why the current board have to stand down. If the club is to get the best possible outcome from this then all parties have to be able to work together. I understand this is going to be  a point of contention for some but that was the chance they took when they chose the path they did and there is no way back. At least in my opinion.
OK, back to this.
I ridiculed the idea that anyone would lob another three million in the direction of the club after the owners had left taking all with them. I assumed you meant they took every penny with them. I didnt think even you would factor in them also finishing the stand at a cost of 3 million. So absolutely, in that absurdist situation I agree, keep it as running costs.
We could even ask them to deposit it in the Trust accounts, reckon that would work for you?
Why would you even think they will finish the stand and then walk? They are either going to finish the stand and stay or walk as soon as they can without a thought to the stand.
The rest of your post is your opinion on a group of individuals who you have demonstrated you have no time for should do, so I will point you back to what drew me into this thread.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BedsCobb on February 06, 2023, 21:44:20 pm
Mate, that honestly isn't what it shows. Have a look at the document on the WNC planning  portal. The early diagrams in the plan show the two tranches of land and they do indeed go right up to the edge of the stadium.

But then go on and look at figure 8 on page 9 showing the Proposed Layout Plan. The warehouse covers about half of the running track area leaving a 50m wide strip. The plan shows it as car parking but eventually who knows what it could be used for?

If you doubt me then do what I did - go onto Google Maps and use the measuring tool to see how big that chunk of land is.
one of many no doubt  but not stamped for construction
I saw the a4 offering from Thomas when forced to show his plans.. just a small car park leading to the proposed warehousing on the running track.
Anything from cdnl needs to taken with a pinch of salt..
Slippery eels..


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 06, 2023, 21:52:05 pm
I obviously don't know what would have happened so I'll hazard a guess.
I guess that Cilldara would have bought the football club because the club owned the leases to all the land.
Next step would be to buy the land to which they now hold all the leases including the ACV land.
The football club would then be an unwanted inconvenience, so sell it, possibly for a pound and build warehouses on all the land including the ACV area.
The new owners are then left with an unfinished football stadium, completely hemmed in by warehouses.
Cilldara walk away smiling whilst counting their profit.
Thanks, I wonder why they ever wanted to buy the club as a means of securing the leases when the alternative was to guarantee breaking them to the council if their bid was successful?
They would surely have then wanted more than a quid for the club unless someone high up in Cilldara had visions of becoming the next Darragh MacAntony, a little further upstream.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 06, 2023, 21:54:32 pm
OK, back to this.
I ridiculed the idea that anyone would lob another three million in the direction of the club after the owners had left taking all with them. I assumed you meant they took every penny with them. I didnt think even you would factor in them also finishing the stand at a cost of 3 million. So absolutely, in that absurdist situation I agree, keep it as running costs.
We could even ask them to deposit it in the Trust accounts, reckon that would work for you?
Why would you even think they will finish the stand and then walk? They are either going to finish the stand and stay or walk as soon as they can without a thought to the stand.
The rest of your post is your opinion on a group of individuals who you have demonstrated you have no time for should do, so I will point you back to what drew me into this thread.
2 Things, I suggest instead of attempting to force the owners to complete the stand the money they would spend should be set aside to support the club should there be any financial instability during any transition. Im sorry this has been a challenge for you to interpret.
As a member of the Trust the individuals you speak of represent me so I am perfectly entitled to comment when I want without restriction or suppression. In summary as long as it’s lawful I’ll say what I want, when I want and they are obliged to give it consideration as is my right and what they have committed to. Apologies if this is yet another concept that is a challenge for you?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 06, 2023, 21:59:25 pm
It really did bother you didn’t it? Don’t worry one of your Minions will be along in a minute to give you a nice cuddle and offer some reassuring words of comfort. The truth is you’re a bully who’s out of their depth overstepped their abilities by a considerable margin and been found out. You lack the strength of character to prioritise the commitment to the members of the Trust before your own ego and insecurities. That’s the truth my friend, now are you prepared to hold up the mirror and face the truth?
LOL, it really didnt but if the thought makes you feel better. You do take this seriously.
'One of my minions'...who do you think I am?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 06, 2023, 22:00:16 pm
LOL, it really didnt but if the thought makes you feel better. You do take this seriously.
'One of my minions'...who do you think I am?

No idea, no idea at all.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BedsCobb on February 06, 2023, 22:01:37 pm
Beds (and anyone else who's interested!) have a look at this -

https://imgur.com/a/6jmKrsn (https://imgur.com/a/6jmKrsn)

I've picked up the entire bowling alley complex and dropped it into the gap shown on the planning proposal. That's a big chunk of land
once you include allowance for future expansion,  ( we won't always be a 5hit 4th division club) a service rd, replacement for lost car parking and the true setting out of the warehousing I doubt you'll be able to swing a cat behind the stand.
It's better to demand what we want now than leave it to cdnl to dictate procedures.

We need to force the owners back into the broom cupboard to answer questions and to receive the supporters demands as to what we want to see with our clubs £6m share, a share that will be used to its maximum not spanked on 10 boxes only as currently proposed.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 06, 2023, 22:05:30 pm
once you include allowance for future expansion,  ( we won't always be a 5hit 4th division club) a service rd, replacement for lost car parking and the true setting out of the warehousing I doubt you'll be able to swing a cat behind the stand.
It's better to demand what we want now than leave it to cdnl to dictate procedures.

We need to force the owners back into the broom cupboard to answer questions and to receive the supporters demands as to what we want to see with our clubs £6m share, a share that will be used to its maximum not spanked on 10 boxes only as currently proposed.
So, how do you intend to force them to do that, pray tell?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 06, 2023, 22:15:45 pm
No idea, no idea at all.
But you think I have 'minions' so by definition you've award me a position of importance.
I'm sorry to disappoint you but I'm a no mark, always have been and always will be.



Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 06, 2023, 22:19:28 pm
once you include allowance for future expansion,  ( we won't always be a 5hit 4th division club) a service rd, replacement for lost car parking and the true setting out of the warehousing I doubt you'll be able to swing a cat behind the stand.
It's better to demand what we want now than leave it to cdnl to dictate procedures.

We need to force the owners back into the broom cupboard to answer questions and to receive the supporters demands as to what we want to see with our clubs £6m share, a share that will be used to its maximum not spanked on 10 boxes only as currently proposed.
Tell you what Dave, I’ll help you out.

Message to Kelvin Thomas, get back in the cupboard Dave is going tell you how much you are going to spend and what you are going to spend it on. You will follow these instructions with blind, unquestioning obedience.

There you go, don’t say I don’t do anything for you. I’m not sure how effective your latest plan will be, but one can hope.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 06, 2023, 22:20:20 pm
But you think I have 'minions' so by definition you've award me a position of importance.
I'm sorry to disappoint you but I'm a no mark, always have been and always will be.


Noted.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 06, 2023, 22:36:41 pm
2 Things, I suggest instead of attempting to force the owners to complete the stand the money they would spend should be set aside to support the club should there be any financial instability during any transition. Im sorry this has been a challenge for you to interpret.
As a member of the Trust the individuals you speak of represent me so I am perfectly entitled to comment when I want without restriction or suppression. In summary as long as it’s lawful I’ll say what I want, when I want and they are obliged to give it consideration as is my right and what they have committed to. Apologies if this is yet another concept that is a challenge for you?
You've been suggesting the owners do not finish the stand for an eon. We all heard already, we also know you think you are in a minority of one, I'm paraphrasing you now. It's not a challenge for me or I suspect anyone else, understanding your views and under the right circumstances I would agree. I just said that and it's not the first time I've been conformational of that opinion.
Of course you are, but if you repeat yourself too many times people are gonna start thinking you're an imposter rather than a businessman with multiple interests in both northern and southern hemispheres.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 06, 2023, 22:41:09 pm
You've been suggesting the owners do not finish the stand for an eon. We all heard already, we also know you think you are in a minority of one, I'm paraphrasing you now. It's not a challenge for me or I suspect anyone else, understanding your views and under the right circumstances I would agree. I just said that and it's not the first time I've been conformational of that opinion.
Of course you are, but if you repeat yourself too many times people are gonna start thinking you're an imposter rather than a businessman with multiple interests in both northern and southern hemispheres.

I don’t care what people think, I’m just conveying my opinion. People will either agree or they won’t. There are literally tens if not hundreds of people reading this thread who know exactly who I am and what the extent of my affiliation to the owners of the club are. I’m not a master of disguise, unlike yourself.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 06, 2023, 22:53:16 pm
I don’t care what people think, I’m just conveying my opinion. People will either agree or they won’t. There are literally tens if not hundreds of people reading this thread who know exactly who I am and what the extent of my affiliation to the owners of the club are. I’m not a master of disguise, unlike yourself.
So are you now saying you're a minion of either DB or KT? Are you closer than that, maybe related to them?
I wondered why you got so arsey when I suggested incompetence at the highest level.
Pleased that you have the confirmation and approval of hundreds of other fans. Its clearly important to you that you do.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 06, 2023, 23:05:23 pm
So are you now saying you're a minion of either DB or KT? Are you closer than that, maybe related to them?
I wondered why you got so arsey when I suggested incompetence at the highest level.
Pleased that you have the confirmation and approval of hundreds of other fans. Its clearly important to you that you do.
Ah the old attack is the best form of defence strategy? As I said people are free to make their own judgements. There is more than enough in the posts on this and other threads to allow people to make an informed decision. I’m happy anyway.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BackOfTheNet on February 07, 2023, 06:06:01 am
one of many no doubt  but not stamped for construction
I saw the a4 offering from Thomas when forced to show his plans.. just a small car park leading to the proposed warehousing on the running track.
Anything from cdnl needs to taken with a pinch of salt..
Slippery eels..

So we get Trust board advisors plastering this all over social media saying "Look what they are going to build, isn't it awful" and then you look at it and say "They aren't going to build this, they are going to build something worse"

It's an utter waste of time trying to have a sensible debate about this because in certain eyes the club can't do right for doing wrong.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BedsCobb on February 07, 2023, 06:19:56 am
So, how do you intend to force them to do that, pray tell?
By the way they have attempted to split the supporters voice and make the council believe we have a 'true' supporters voice on the board would tell me they are working hard to curry flavour the WNC to believing they are in it mainly for the good of the club and not only for themselves.

I too thought they had us over a barrel, game set and match.. to the extent Northampton's football club were yet again  left with nothing of much value and the land all gone to the far east or America but alas... Hold the back page and put the horses back in the stable...Rumours of 'the Cobblers' latest demise has been greatly exaggerated..

Northampton finally nows what it wants for its Football club and now the west Northants council also know it.
For cdnl/thomas to leave us with just 10 boxes and a hemmed in stand would be extremely embarrassing for the council and would be subject to an enquiry as to why so little was gained from £20,000.000 of public land.
I know from that cllr Brown that graced us with his ignorance that many on the WNC hold our club in very low esteem and don't believe it to be worth a fair share,  but we all know better and now so do they.. A small revisit to why we are where we find ourselves wil only reverse the tide in the favour Northampton Town fc and away from cdnl/ thomas.

How it managed to get this far is a disgrace.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 07, 2023, 06:32:01 am
By the way they have attempted to split the supporters voice and make the council believe we have a 'true' supporters voice on the board would tell me they are working hard to curry flavour the WNC to believing they are in it mainly for the good of the club and not only for themselves.

I too thought they had us over a barrel, game set and match.. to the extent Northampton's football club were yet again  left with nothing of much value and the land all gone to the far east or America but alas... Hold the back page and put the horses back in the stable...Rumours of 'the Cobblers' latest demise has been greatly exaggerated..

Northampton finally nows what it wants for its Football club and now the west Northants council also know it.
For cdnl/thomas to leave us with just 10 boxes and a hemmed in stand would be extremely embarrassing for the council and would be subject to an enquiry as to why so little was gained from £20,000.000 of public land.
I know from that cllr Brown that graced us with his ignorance that many on the WNC hold our club in very low esteem and don't believe it to be worth a fair share,  but we all know better and now so do they.. A small revisit to why we are where we find ourselves wil only reverse the tide in the favour Northampton Town fc and away from cdnl/ thomas.

How it managed to get this far is a disgrace.
Bit long winded for you, you could have just said “I don’t know”.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3574 on February 07, 2023, 07:03:08 am
Thanks, I wonder why they ever wanted to buy the club as a means of securing the leases when the alternative was to guarantee breaking them to the council if their bid was successful?
They would surely have then wanted more than a quid for the club unless someone high up in Cilldara had visions of becoming the next Darragh MacAntony, a little further upstream.
[/quote
How dare you bring “them” into the “debate” >:D


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on February 07, 2023, 07:51:43 am
Everything starts as a wish list, this one that all tfc fans agree is the minimum requirement that  is  long overdue,  one that WILL see the light of day as cdnl will now be forced to make it happen as they previously had no pressure to do anything.

The next Q&A will be interesting when thomas is faced with 100s demanding far more than he wants to give from the council's £20,000.000 gift that he wants to preserve for himself.


I agree, but we can wish all we want. The only two options are CDNL or Cilldara. There isnt a white knight waiting in the wings. You may argue the Trust but even Cilldara couldnt work with them!
The next Q&A will be interested when no one from the Trust or their band or merry men turn up AGAIN.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 07, 2023, 09:15:47 am
Ah the old attack is the best form of defence strategy? As I said people are free to make their own judgements. There is more than enough in the posts on this and other threads to allow people to make an informed decision. I’m happy anyway.
I would suggest you are a little paranoid if you think it's me who's attacking you.
If anyone can be arsed to check, there's plenty of examples where i concede points in my posts, by contrast if someone were to look through yours they could be forgiven for thinking you wrote the 'football finances and how to run a club' bible. That is probably indicative of where you find yourself in life but it doesn't mean to say you are always right because you aren't. An example of this is your myopia towards an apparent debt of 7 million (a debt of 7 million on the balance sheet) and the idea it will have no effect on outcome under any future circumstances. That is only the case once you have taken a position, something you are extremely good at doing.
A little honesty goes a long way. I asked you a direct question last night, who am I behind this persona that makes you think I have 'minions'? You replied, you have 'no idea, no idea at all'. That is patently untrue isn't it? Otherwise you would not have used the term, which I had to look up btw in order to check I understood you correctly. Posters to this forum do not as a rule have minions (which incidentally is rather a derogatory term once you think about it). You might not be right in your suspicion of who I am, you might be bang on, but you do have a suspicion, so why not just say so?
People can indeed make their minds up, although why that should matter to you beyond giving you some kind of confirmation that your passion for the club is equal to anyone else's irrespective of the obvious geographic disadvantage you now find yourself in is a mystery to me.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BedsCobb on February 07, 2023, 09:20:45 am
I agree, but we can wish all we want. The only two options are CDNL or Cilldara. There isnt a white knight waiting in the wings. You may argue the Trust but even Cilldara couldnt work with them!
The next Q&A will be interested when no one from the Trust or their band or merry men turn up AGAIN.
If it's deemed by the hearing that cdnl have had an unfair advantage over others  vying for the land then we might find many more potential land speculators appearing on the horizon.
I believe CDNL/ thomas got preferential treatment because he said was going to spend  £6,000.000 on the ground and the council believed it.
Well if he sets that amount aside to be used for the clubs absolute maximum benefit, then we would all back him...
We would no longer fear getting mugged off with just10 boxes in a hemmed in stadium dwarfed by huge warehouse sheds..



You see, after 8 years all our alarm bells should be ringing off the wall...Something just doesn't add up and now is the time to demand our club get a decent return for being mothballed for 20 years..

If a united supporters trust and supporters rep on the board can agree a minimum acceptable, ring fenced amount of redevelopment and expansion,  then that would be what we get..

If the not my trust and trust keep tearing into each other there can only one outcome, and that is our club lose out very badly..


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 07, 2023, 09:20:50 am
Thanks, I wonder why they ever wanted to buy the club as a means of securing the leases when the alternative was to guarantee breaking them to the council if their bid was successful?
They would surely have then wanted more than a quid for the club unless someone high up in Cilldara had visions of becoming the next Darragh MacAntony, a little further upstream.
[/quote
How dare you bring “them” into the “debate” >:D
;D
I don't suppose the idea was that well received but it needed to be said.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 07, 2023, 09:49:28 am
I would suggest you are a little paranoid if you think it's me who's attacking you.
If anyone can be arsed to check, there's plenty of examples where i concede points in my posts, by contrast if someone were to look through yours they could be forgiven for thinking you wrote the 'football finances and how to run a club' bible. That is probably indicative of where you find yourself in life but it doesn't mean to say you are always right because you aren't. An example of this is your myopia towards an apparent debt of 7 million (a debt of 7 million on the balance sheet) and the idea it will have no effect on outcome under any future circumstances. That is only the case once you have taken a position, something you are extremely good at doing.
A little honesty goes a long way. I asked you a direct question last night, who am I behind this persona that makes you think I have 'minions'? You replied, you have 'no idea, no idea at all'. That is patently untrue isn't it? Otherwise you would not have used the term, which I had to look up btw in order to check I understood you correctly. Posters to this forum do not as a rule have minions (which incidentally is rather a derogatory term once you think about it). You might not be right in your suspicion of who I am, you might be bang on, but you do have a suspicion, so why not just say so?
People can indeed make their minds up, although why that should matter to you beyond giving you some kind of confirmation that your passion for the club is equal to anyone else's irrespective of the obvious geographic disadvantage you now find yourself in is a mystery to me.
Thanks for trying to share some advice, too much over sensitive commentary for me. You don’t have to explain yourself, Im only giving my opinion. Don’t obsess over it, just ignore it.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3574 on February 07, 2023, 11:48:34 am
Tape measure time for you 2! >:D


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 07, 2023, 12:32:41 pm
Thanks for trying to share some advice, too much over sensitive commentary for me. You don’t have to explain yourself, Im only giving my opinion. Don’t obsess over it, just ignore it.
Kinda proves my point don't you think?
Alright Melbourne, carry on peddling your opinions and bias and i wlll try not to interrupt your flow in the future.
How's that for a fair go?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on February 07, 2023, 12:33:53 pm
If it's deemed by the hearing that cdnl have had an unfair advantage over others  vying for the land then we might find many more potential land speculators appearing on the horizon.

Do you think thats a good thing?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Zen Master on February 07, 2023, 12:34:45 pm
Unless a wealthy benefactor comes into play happy to spend without any expectation of outlay return then we will always have one speculator or another.

 Football clubs are not investments, generally they are money pits.

DC could have developed the lot, repaid the council, recovered family money and ride off into the sunset a local legend. He didn’t, he totally messed it up.

 We have currently have which is the least worst option and a then what situation.



Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on February 07, 2023, 12:35:01 pm
Kinda proves my point don't you think?
Alright Melbourne, carry on peddling your opinions and bias and i wlll try not to interrupt your flow in the future.
How's that for a fair go?
Isn't everyone on here peddling opinions and bias?  ???


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 07, 2023, 12:39:25 pm
Tape measure time for you 2! >:D
Jousts in modernity Pau.
We love each other really.



Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Worthless Recluse on February 07, 2023, 12:43:15 pm
Isn't everyone on here peddling opinions and bias?  ???
There's the odd fact bouncing around, but we just diiscovered what facts really are so your probably bang on there Stanley.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 07, 2023, 19:45:26 pm
Kinda proves my point don't you think?
Alright Melbourne, carry on peddling your opinions and bias and i wlll try not to interrupt your flow in the future.
How's that for a fair go?
Where’s the fun in that?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 07, 2023, 20:00:51 pm
Jousts in modernity Pau.
We love each other really.


Thank goodness he’s calmed down. I blame Tabasco, after he told him he’d lost he went beserk. The way he was ranting on I thought I was going to have to take out a restraining order. Anyone know a good solicitor?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BedsCobb on February 07, 2023, 20:30:30 pm
So, how do you intend to force them to do that, pray tell?
Simply putting the facts out there, educating an ignorant council and allowing the people of Northampton to demand a fair deal for its football club.
It's couldn’t be more easy.
Why do you think the club used devisive tactics to split the support base?
Why do you think they got Tom in as fans voice on the board.
Why do you think they keep promoting themselves and shouting from the roof tops as them being something special in the community when all they did is what is only expected of all clubs?
I'll tell you what I think, the big pay day, the gift of £20,000,000 from the ignorant to the facts WNC is looming and it just needs a final push without  scrutiny and its in the bank for cdnl.. cashed in and gone with the football club left with Jack 5hit to work with and like the final days of Cardoza,  lots of egg covered faces when reality dawns on what they allowed to happen.
But fear not, we can be eternally grateful as the town of Northampton has backed its football club even if it's own supporters are allowing it to be thrown under the bus!


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3574 on February 07, 2023, 20:32:46 pm
An alternate reality


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 07, 2023, 20:50:27 pm
Simply putting the facts out there, educating an ignorant council and allowing the people of Northampton to demand a fair deal for its football club.
It's couldn’t be more easy.
Why do you think the club used devisive tactics to split the support base?
Why do you think they got Tom in as fans voice on the board.
Why do you think they keep promoting themselves and shouting from the roof tops as them being something special in the community when all they did is what is only expected of all clubs?
I'll tell you what I think, the big pay day, the gift of £20,000,000 from the ignorant to the facts WNC is looming and it just needs a final push without  scrutiny and its in the bank for cdnl.. cashed in and gone with the football club left with Jack 5hit to work with and like the final days of Cardoza,  lots of egg covered faces when reality dawns on what they allowed to happen.
But fear not, we can be eternally grateful as the town of Northampton has backed its football club even if it's own supporters are allowing it to be thrown under the bus!

So you still don’t know then?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Tabasco Kid on February 08, 2023, 03:05:14 am
Thank goodness he’s calmed down. I blame Tabasco, after he told him he’d lost he went beserk. The way he was ranting on I thought I was going to have to take out a restraining order. Anyone know a good solicitor?
If I had feelings, I would be offended by that. Still, movin on ..  ;D


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on February 08, 2023, 07:06:12 am
Why do you think the club used devisive tactics to split the support base?
- They haven't, not that I have seen. I would say most of the support base is actually together!

Why do you think they got Tom in as fans voice on the board.
- Because of the fan led review that the Trust were involved in and he was elected by the fans. No one from the Trust, nor you, nor your friends stood. Wasn't a great process admittedly but its even less great when your name isnt on the ballot!

Why do you think they keep promoting themselves and shouting from the roof tops as them being something special in the community when all they did is what is only expected of all clubs?
- They are doing a bloody good job at pulling the wool over peoples eyes. How many awards have they won now? Including a fairly prestigious European award beating some of the biggest clubs in Europe, and getting praise and recognition from Hearts Supporters Trust amongst many others


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BedsCobb on February 08, 2023, 19:47:25 pm
An alternate reality
Better than sucking it up big time again, eh? 😀


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BedsCobb on February 08, 2023, 19:49:03 pm
So you still don’t know then?
Yes I do! Whatever it is you want me to know.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BedsCobb on February 08, 2023, 20:13:08 pm
Why do you think the club used devisive tactics to split the support base?
- They haven't, not that I have seen. I would say most of the support base is actually together!

Why do you think they got Tom in as fans voice on the board.
- Because of the fan led review that the Trust were involved in and he was elected by the fans. No one from the Trust, nor you, nor your friends stood. Wasn't a great process admittedly but its even less great when your name isnt on the ballot!

Why do you think they keep promoting themselves and shouting from the roof tops as them being something special in the community when all they did is what is only expected of all clubs?
- They are doing a bloody good job at pulling the wool over peoples eyes. How many awards have they won now? Including a fairly prestigious European award beating some of the biggest clubs in Europe, and getting praise and recognition from Hearts Supporters Trust amongst many others
I think I know who you are 😀
I've never read something so unconvincing, where the author is not only trying to convince other people but also himself..
Please let me help, all of what I stated is true, cdnl are desperate now and are trying to get the £20m  land bounty from the council into the pocket without having to face scrutiny for the paltry amount OUR club is being offered, if anything at all.

On a side note, Heart's fc have also been through the mill, they know only too well how important a united fans base are to a club, they know how important getting the fans and business community involved at every stage and building up revenue streams..
So why would they praise the hapless CDNL who think the exact opposite?
Why? Because they didn't or they like so many others are not privy to the facts.
We all need to 'stay on side' for the sake of our football club.



Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3574 on February 08, 2023, 20:27:39 pm
Better than sucking it up big time again, eh? 😀
Or peddling the same twaddle year on year on year, eh? ;D


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 08, 2023, 22:17:18 pm
Yes I do! Whatever it is you want me to know.
I want to know why is it whatever the outcome of all this, I and those like me are pretty much guaranteed to get what we want. Whilst you and those like you are not?

There’s todays little test for your brain cell.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: singcobb on February 08, 2023, 22:35:22 pm
I want to know why is it whatever the outcome of all this, I and those like me are pretty much guaranteed to get what we want. Whilst you and those like you are not?

There’s todays little test for your brain cell.

Just stop engaging with him and he'll hopefully go away along with all the others that post the same shít over and over again.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 09, 2023, 05:11:35 am
Just stop engaging with him and he'll hopefully go away along with all the others that post the same shít over and over again.
I think of him as a stress ball, an executive toy if you will.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3566 on February 09, 2023, 05:25:57 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmUKmW4BYXM


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on February 09, 2023, 07:22:35 am
I think I know who you are 😀
I've never read something so unconvincing, where the author is not only trying to convince other people but also himself..
Please let me help, all of what I stated is true, cdnl are desperate now and are trying to get the £20m  land bounty from the council into the pocket without having to face scrutiny for the paltry amount OUR club is being offered, if anything at all.

On a side note, Heart's fc have also been through the mill, they know only too well how important a united fans base are to a club, they know how important getting the fans and business community involved at every stage and building up revenue streams..
So why would they praise the hapless CDNL who think the exact opposite?
Why? Because they didn't or they like so many others are not privy to the facts.
We all need to 'stay on side' for the sake of our football club.
So please tell me which parts I got wrong.
You stated all you post is true and then use a made up value.

https://twitter.com/bighearts/status/1592823491937865729?s=20&t=jAnw_SuPSmzbJEzUYZODuw
So using your logic they must be ignorant 'to the facts'. By the way they are a previous winner of the award so know what is involved and needed to win.
 How many more people are you going to dismiss before you realise its you and your friends who are on the wrong side?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BedsCobb on February 09, 2023, 10:51:14 am
Or peddling the same twaddle year on year on year, eh? ;D
8 years to be precise, the same time it's taken your friend's CDNL to achieve absolutely nothing..

So I'll continue until our club gets its fair share and not be taken the pi5s out off.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Manwork04 on February 09, 2023, 17:00:16 pm
8 years to be precise, the same time it's taken your friend's CDNL to achieve absolutely nothing..

So I'll continue until our club gets its fair share and not be taken the pi5s out off.
Keep going Beds, your spot on with your last statement.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Dan on February 09, 2023, 19:05:16 pm
8 years to be precise, the same time it's taken your friend's CDNL to achieve absolutely nothing..

So I'll continue until our club gets its fair share and not be taken the pi5s out off.


Keep going Beds, your spot on with your last statement.

This is why I did opt to stand for the fans vote. To apply some pressure after years of undelivered promises.

I guess my questions at do this point:

The trust withdrawing their bid was unquestionably big news for the club. Why haven’t we had any comment from them about the subject?
If there’s no longer opposition for them, what’s the next steps?
What does this do to deadlines?
What are the deadlines?
When will we finally see some actual works on the abyss that is the East Stand?

It’s time that we heard some concrete details as the supporters have been ridiculously patient. Let’s see some results.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 09, 2023, 20:04:49 pm

This is why I did opt to stand for the fans vote. To apply some pressure after years of undelivered promises.

I guess my questions at do this point:

The trust withdrawing their bid was unquestionably big news for the club. Why haven’t we had any comment from them about the subject?
If there’s no longer opposition for them, what’s the next steps?
What does this do to deadlines?
What are the deadlines?
When will we finally see some actual works on the abyss that is the East Stand?

It’s time that we heard some concrete details as the supporters have been ridiculously patient. Let’s see some results.
I think this is something that will take care of itself. When the final legals are drawn up the council have stipulated that the completion will be included, and the owners have concurred. I would imagine they want their money as soon as possible, so I don’t think they’ll be any hanging around once all the barriers have gone. Where there is no difference between any of us is that there should be a chunk in it for the club, however it is spent. In the event they were to renegade on this pledge that would be a very brave move on the part of the council, it would probably unify us all PDQ. Moving forward what the Trust need to do is to get broad agreement on what is a reasonable share, and what constitutes value for money when it is spent. That’s from its members and everyone else.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: random1 on February 09, 2023, 20:36:19 pm
I think this is something that will take care of itself. When the final legals are drawn up the council have stipulated that the completion will be included, and the owners have concurred. I would imagine they want their money as soon as possible, so I don’t think they’ll be any hanging around once all the barriers have gone. Where there is no difference between any of us is that there should be a chunk in it for the club, however it is spent. In the event they were to renegade on this pledge that would be a very brave move on the part of the council, it would probably unify us all PDQ. Moving forward what the Trust need to do is to get broad agreement on what is a reasonable share, and what constitutes value for money when it is spent. That’s from its members and everyone else.

my vote is all the running track and either a completed East stand or £2.5m fund for ground improvements (ie: North & South stands increase and cladding to tart up the East stand)


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 09, 2023, 21:00:22 pm
my vote is all the running track and either a completed East stand or £2.5m fund for ground improvements (ie: North & South stands increase and cladding to tart up the East stand)
I think the figure is dependent on what the final return is Derek. I reckon 2.5 million would be excessive if they made 3 million. However I think we would all cop the arse with that figure if they made 40 million. With regards to the design what I would do is speak to as many Trusts and clubs as possible who have recently gone through improvements to the ground. What ideas regarding the designs worked and what didn’t, both in terms of experience and attendance.  As I have tried to allude to, if this is a legacy for the club, how do you identify and subsequently protect both the asset and income from any future investor owner profits? I suppose the message is when you are specifying acceptable conditions or standards don’t fly blind.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BedsCobb on February 09, 2023, 22:07:31 pm

This is why I did opt to stand for the fans vote. To apply some pressure after years of undelivered promises.

I guess my questions at do this point:

The trust withdrawing their bid was unquestionably big news for the club. Why haven’t we had any comment from them about the subject?
If there’s no longer opposition for them, what’s the next steps?
What does this do to deadlines?
What are the deadlines?
When will we finally see some actual works on the abyss that is the East Stand?

It’s time that we heard some concrete details as the supporters have been ridiculously patient. Let’s see some results.
Some good points made Dan, but my concern being
the East stand was to be finished 8 years ago, the fact Thomas hasn't bothered his arse to do as he suggested doesn't mean our club has been mothballed but infact has moved on to now needing an extending to the south stand.
Thomas has caused major problems to our clubs ability to progress,  costing us both our ability to trade correctly and our L1 position and such needs holding to account.
If he can't finish both the East and extend the South stand he needs removing from our club.
CDNL'S unbelievable brass neck  pi5s taking of our club, and its support base,  council and the whole town of Northampton has run it's course.
Yes he did really well 'grooming' the 2% of the paltry 2% that now bother following Northampton town, to believing he is the only option but now even these poor souls that succumbed to his greasy charms are now waking up and questioning the bleeding obvious.

WNC need pressure putting on them, they seem to backing cdnl over the future well being of Northampton's football club,   they are supposed to represent, so some  urgent educating of their ignorance is long over due..



Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 09, 2023, 23:38:57 pm
Some good points made Dan, but my concern being
the East stand was to be finished 8 years ago, the fact Thomas hasn't bothered his arse to do as he suggested doesn't mean our club has been mothballed but infact has moved on to now needing an extending to the south stand.
Thomas has caused major problems to our clubs ability to progress,  costing us both our ability to trade correctly and our L1 position and such needs holding to account.
If he can't finish both the East and extend the South stand he needs removing from our club.
CDNL'S unbelievable brass neck  pi5s taking of our club, and its support base,  council and the whole town of Northampton has run it's course.
Yes he did really well 'grooming' the 2% of the paltry 2% that now bother following Northampton town, to believing he is the only option but now even these poor souls that succumbed to his greasy charms are now waking up and questioning the bleeding obvious.

WNC need pressure putting on them, they seem to backing cdnl over the future well being of Northampton's football club,   they are supposed to represent, so some  urgent educating of their ignorance is long over due..


I think you’ll find the confrontational and aggressive approach is proven not to work and has failed spectacularly to date.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Risdene on February 10, 2023, 04:36:32 am

This is why I did opt to stand for the fans vote. To apply some pressure after years of undelivered promises.

I guess my questions at do this point:

The trust withdrawing their bid was unquestionably big news for the club. Why haven’t we had any comment from them about the subject?
If there’s no longer opposition for them, what’s the next steps?
What does this do to deadlines?
What are the deadlines?
When will we finally see some actual works on the abyss that is the East Stand?

It’s time that we heard some concrete details as the supporters have been ridiculously patient. Let’s see some results.

I am not expecting any comment from the club until the announcement of the Judicial Review, hopefully at the end of next month. My concern is if the Judge is as slow as the CPS it is anybody's guess when we will hear!


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BedsCobb on February 10, 2023, 06:11:33 am
I think you’ll find the confrontational and aggressive approach is proven not to work and has failed spectacularly to date.
I think you'll find it has been uncharacteristically missing from what is a football league club and community asset that has been mothballed for 2 decades.



Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BedsCobb on February 10, 2023, 06:23:30 am
I think this is something that will take care of itself. When the final legals are drawn up the council have stipulated that the completion will be included, and the owners have concurred. I would imagine they want their money as soon as possible, so I don’t think they’ll be any hanging around once all the barriers have gone. Where there is no difference between any of us is that there should be a chunk in it for the club, however it is spent. In the event they were to renegade on this pledge that would be a very brave move on the part of the council, it would probably unify us all PDQ. Moving forward what the Trust need to do is to get broad agreement on what is a reasonable share, and what constitutes value for money when it is spent. That’s from its members and everyone else.
So you're advocating a wait and see policy as to how an agreement between a seemingly clueless WNC and an ever increasing desperate CDNL, as to the final outcome of what Northampton Town will get from the £20m land carve up?

We both know that's the last thing our club needs.

We should demand of the council what it is our club needs (Not what the owners think/hope they can get away with) and WNC enforce cdnl to oblige under the terms..

With all the in house fighting between those who we need to figh for a good deal for ntfc, its making it very easy for the land speculators cdnl to rip the ar5e out of Sixfields.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BedsCobb on February 10, 2023, 06:30:40 am
I am not expecting any comment from the club until the announcement of the Judicial Review, hopefully at the end of next month. My concern is if the Judge is as slow as the CPS it is anybody's guess when we will hear!
With the Cobblers future at stake depending on getting a fair deal, it's better for it to drag out so Northampton and its football club get the maximum benefit from its fair share of council land at Sixfields.
Decisions made by those ignorant to the clubs needs and those desperate for a massive windfall  can only result in the Cobblers losing out spectacularly again.

At this late stage trust no-one and ask questions and demand a fair deal which is a lot more than a few boxes cobbled in the East stand pretending to £6m worth of work..


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Melbourne Cobbler on February 10, 2023, 07:25:18 am
So you're advocating a wait and see policy as to how an agreement between a seemingly clueless WNC and an ever increasing desperate CDNL, as to the final outcome of what Northampton Town will get from the £20m land carve up?

We both know that's the last thing our club needs.

We should demand of the council what it is our club needs (Not what the owners think/hope they can get away with) and WNC enforce cdnl to oblige under the terms..

With all the in house fighting between those who we need to figh for a good deal for ntfc, its making it very easy for the land speculators cdnl to rip the ar5e out of Sixfields.

Again if the Trust with their protestations and efforts have got nowhere what makes your foot stamping petulance a more viable option? Are you suggesting the Board were a bit feeble and you throwing a tantrum and repeating the same demands are more likely to succeed. What makes you think you’ll be successful with your ultimatums where the board failed? Sounds to me like you’re proposing to do a lot of shouting and fighting in an empty room, whilst they ignore you and carry on with what they’re doing. Pretty much like what’s happened so far. Brilliant, and you wonder why people take this píss, brains of a rocking horse.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: guest3571 on February 10, 2023, 08:13:27 am
I think you'll find it has been uncharacteristically missing from what is a football league club and community asset that has been mothballed for 2 decades.


Meant with good intentions but I genuinely believe the Trust and people who share the same opinion as yourself would be much more successful if you recognised some of the positive things that the club do. The work that the club have done for a very very long time in the community should be recognised and this, in my opinion, has accelerated in the last 3-4 years, as has been demonstrated by the various awards.
There is a lot that you can rightly hold the owners to account for but by dismissing everything you lose credibility. Acknowledge the good, challenge the bad and you will get many more fans on side I am sure.


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Risdene on February 10, 2023, 08:46:38 am
With the Cobblers future at stake depending on getting a fair deal, it's better for it to drag out so Northampton and its football club get the maximum benefit from its fair share of council land at Sixfields.
Decisions made by those ignorant to the clubs needs and those desperate for a massive windfall  can only result in the Cobblers losing out spectacularly again.

At this late stage trust no-one and ask questions and demand a fair deal which is a lot more than a few boxes cobbled in the East stand pretending to £6m worth of work..
'it's better for it to drag out'!!!!!

Bl***y hell I'm years  nearer my death bed already!

All I ask is people we pay, with tax payers money, to make a decision!


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: rebelspawn on February 10, 2023, 09:16:34 am
my vote is all the running track and either a completed East stand or £2.5m fund for ground improvements (ie: North & South stands increase and cladding to tart up the East stand)

How about half the running track (as per the clubs current plans) and a cast iron legal guarantee that the stand will be built and there is no scenario in which CDNL/the owners walk away with money, whilst the stand is unfinished and NTFC has to hand back the running track to the council for £1? All of this achieved by having independent legal eyes on the contract as it's drawn up.

Come to think of it, with the warehouses currently planned over half of the ACV land, how would the clawback clause even work if (in 5 years time) the warehouses are built, but the stand is not finished?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: BedsCobb on February 10, 2023, 09:57:18 am
Again if the Trust with their protestations and efforts have got nowhere what makes your foot stamping petulance a more viable option? Are you suggesting the Board were a bit feeble and you throwing a tantrum and repeating the same demands are more likely to succeed. What makes you think you’ll be successful with your ultimatums where the board failed? Sounds to me like you’re proposing to do a lot of shouting and fighting in an empty room, whilst they ignore you and carry on with what they’re doing. Pretty much like what’s happened so far. Brilliant, and you wonder why people take this píss, brains of a rocking horse.
I could always copy and paste from Deloitte's like you,  but that is even more desperate  😉
There's no point in venting after the event,  Yes it looks very like the cobblers are getting a good shafting again, but while there's a glimmer of hope we must go for it.

I'm in Sydney in a few weeks, you should get the bus over, we could meet up for a few pints at a witherspoons on the  high St?


Title: Re: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields
Post by: Deepcut Cobbler on February 10, 2023, 10:19:34 am
A number of conversations going between the two, all relevant to the RedDev, let's get back there shall we?  8)