The Hotel End

Whilst I think Southgate has a tendency to play safe football, I have to say I think he has picked a positive balanced squad of players in form!

There is a good mix of young and experienced players and he has been strong by dropping former players who have not performed consistently this season.

Pity about the defence. A few names like Grealish and Toney will drop out when it is trimmed down.
Ready for some tournament disappointment. #standard.

Nice to see Scott Wharton's brother get the call up. I don't suppose he will be in the final squad, but he has done well since hitting the Blackburn first team.

A lot of people are saying we will only take the two central strikers and therefore Toney may miss out but that seems a huge risk to me. Where as in defence you’ve got players like Gomez who can cover all positions I don’t see any of the others in the provisional squad that can fit in with how England play as a number 9. With Kane coming back from injury as well a reoccurrence would just leave Watkins. Even ignoring Toney’s penalty taking ability with inevitable shootouts I would take him.

It seems a strange squad to me a bit unbalanced

With the now larger squad I think Toney will make it

The defence concerns me. When you are relying on the likes of Maguire, Shaw, Stones and Walker, who have been injured or in poor form of late, then there will be problems.
I an not a fan of Pickford, but there do not appear to be many other options.

Definitely a case of 'the best form of defence'...when an out of form 33 year old right back is your likely first choice for left back you know you have some defensive issues.
Centre midfield isn't filled with much depth either. We should go all out attack to try and outscore the opposition. Just give the ball to Foden.

Surprised Grealish is out of the England squad as he was very good when he came on against Bosnia, while Bowen was awful in that match.

Wow, he has made it, well done Adam Wharton.

Southgate has done the decent thing, and retired Maguire.

Defensively suspect but with that midfield & attack who cares!

Can't wait to see Wharton & Eze on the big stage...

Really looking forward to watching us hopefully flourish with all that talent

Yep suspect defence, but hopefully we take the "score one more" approach as the midfield and attack is as strong as it's been for a long time.
I'd also say that the opposition are probably the weakest in a long time. Mbappe, De Bruyne and a couple of others aside, there's not many who should cause the defence serious problems. I havent really gone in to an International Tournament with much hope since 2006, but am thinking this time, it could be our year...

I hope that tonights game shows a little more flourish than monday nights game against Bosnia. OK the 3-0 cannot be argued with, but at times it was a snoozefest and this squad is capable of much more. I would like to think that we are better than Iceland, but we know what happened the last time.

Well, that was a load of negative s***e. And we will come up against far better teams than Iceland.

Serbia - June 16th.

One well taken goal from a deflected cross.

Very poor in the 2nd half. Whatever Southgate said at Half Time it had the opposite effect. Serbia didn't look very good at all. England very static. A lot of falling over going on (especially Kane).

I can imagine Southgate having a similar effect on most people. He's not exactly Mr Dynamic is he.


I was encouraged however by the result. Especially when I heard that we have only won 1 in 9 of our last tournament starters. 2 now I suppose.

Well taken goal from Bellingham, who got the rough treatment all night. Kane barely got a sniff all night, apart from one well saved effort.
Foden had a poor game, and I would have hooked him for Gallagher instead of Trent. MOM for me was Rice who just did the dirty work and tidied things up.
Onwards to Thursday and Denmark. Lets see how many people have got the afternoon booked off for this one.

The international team is pretty much invariably a 'boring' watch and I guess international football is a different brand. Suddenly players seem to fall over when they get brushed by an opponent. We are crying out to play with more intensity and pace, as seen in the Prem every week. Unfortunately we always seem like a bunch of individuals and the likes of Foden are different players in an England shirt due to the roles they are given.

Still have to fancy us to do well in the tournament though. Early days.

It was pretty dour, wasn't it?

Well in control for the first 35-40 minutes and then sat back. Serbia had a good go and had a few half chances that, fortunately, no one got on the end of. Against a better side, someone would have got onto one of them though.

For all everyone was raving about Bellingham, I agree with Tabby that Rice was MOM. Bellingham was superb for the first half hour and then became less influential, same with Saka.

Kane, Foden and Alexander-Arnold all poor for me. I get Kane was doing a job and stretching Serbia's shape to make room for others but it seems a bit odd when you have a proven goal scorer there and you seem more set up to create chances for others than you are to create chances for him.

The problem is, that there also three proven goal scorers immediately behind him. We dont have any set piece, goal scoring defenders since Maguire was correctly left out, so its a case of play with whats more likely to succeed. And Southgate loves his percentages.

The game was a good fit for Tony off the bench.

I thought England were very poor last night, if we play like that against Denmark we will get beaten.

I didn't realise Foden was playing in the first half, never heard his name mentioned once. In the second half for the few times he touched the ball it was in defence. Did he go forward all night? As for Kane, words fail me, he couldn't wait to get off screen when he was interviewed after the game, even he knew he was sh*t, and he should have buried that header.

We never had any attacking thrust down the left, did Trippier get over the half way line? - twice we should have scored with balls from the right but there was no one to finish them off. I was quite pleased when Bowen came on as I thought he would at least attack their right sided defenders, but no he was just another defender for us.

The only highlights for me were Bellingham's goal and Pickford's save and JP would be my man of the match. One of the pundits at the end called him Jason Pickford.

A 100% improvement needed on Thursday - time to unleash the Toney?

A poor dull performance. The first 35-40 we looked pretty good, but we still seem to lack that killer instinct. Sat back when we should have been pushing hard to extend our advantage. Against any serious side playing like that we are doomed.

I think I agree with Tabby here.

Group stages are all about getting the points to qualify for the knockout stage but my word wasn’t it boring? Hopefully the shackles are loosened when it really matters.
Time and time again they passed around at the back, a pass into space and then instead of the player running into the 20 yards in front they just knocked it back.
The likes of Foden, Gallagher, Alexander-Arnold and Palmer don’t play like that week in and week out. Rice adopted a Henderson type role and made very few forward runs….
Overall very restrained and dull, yes playing like that against a good team is bad news, however if they are allowed to play with a bit of freedom they can match anyone in Europe.

How many times did they pass it back to Pickford only for him to hoof it straight to Serbia.

That's the thing, isn't it? I really like Gareth Southgate as a person and think he's a thoroughly decent human being, and I guess you have to say he's been relatively successful in his time as England manager (even though we still haven't won anything!).

To put that success into context though, look at the quality of player he has available to him right now,  especially in attack. Some of them are genuinely world class and tear teams apart, week in, week out.

Not for England though because the shackles are on and they are utterly wasted "doing a job for the team". There's been plenty of former England managers who have had to ask players to play in a way or position they are unfamiliar with when they haven't had the best of options available to them,  but Southgate has an embarrassment of riches available to him,  only for some reason seems determined not to play to their strengths and instead blunt them by setting the team up to grind out results.

They're young lads, with tons of talent. What is the point in going with maverick type players then insisting they follow a Sunday driver mentality. We haven't had a passionate manager since Venables. Might have got it with Allerdyce, but...whoops.

I see Foden and Bellingham as the Lampard and Gerrard scenario. Both too good to leave out, but one is going to have to play in a role that they are not fully comfortable with. Both play in teams that are set up to their best abilities, but that is not possible in this current England team. Chuck in Trent playing in midfield, and you have at least two outstanding players that are playing in roles that they are not familiar with.

You were proved correct today in a really weary England performance, it looked like the Walking Football Euros!
Foden, Bellingham and Rice, our three best players were all below par.
We also looked unbalanced with only Trippier out left struggling to provide an attacking outlet. Surely Gordon should have come on as he's been so effective there for Newcastle this last season.
We know these are good players so changes have to be made while there's time to save our tournament.

Isn’t it the case that somehow Southgate manages to make a lot of players that look really good for their clubs play so bad for England. It’s not just the three you mentioned Pickford always seems determined to give the ball to the opposition, Stones seems incapable of bringing the ball out from the back, Kane looks like he’s just run a marathon before the match, I could go on!. Even when the subs came on we somehow managed to look worse. The odd bit of tinkering is going to make zero difference we will need to get very lucky to have any chance in the tournament.

Southgate is the best cure for insomnia around.

We'll come good, we always have at least one dodgy game in the group stage. Last time it was Scotland and in the World Cup against USA. Keep the faith.

They play too deep, passing is slow, safe and negative before ridiculous long balls straight to the opposition. I keep hearing people talking about changes in personnel but that will make zero difference in the same way the substitutions haven’t. The problem is the way they are coached and told to play not the players who have been doing so well all season

We've had two dodgy games in the group stage, have you forgotten the Serbia game?

It was absolutely dire last night and I am beginning to think the players are nowhere near as good as the hype surrounding them, in particular Foden and Alexander-Arnold, and against Denmark, Bellingham, who spent most of the night acting like a spoiled brat. If it wasn't for Kane's rather lucky goal we would have lost.

Let's see what happens against Slovenia and hope we don't come up against Spain, France or Germany in the next round.

We've had two already?

I did say "at least one" 😉

The time to come good is in the knock-out stages like we have in the last 2 or 3 tournaments. I hasten to add that in all three it still wasn't good enough to win.

Same team, but Gallagher in for TAA. as predicted.
Not over keen on ITV choice of summarisers, but it is what it is. #comeonengland

A win would be really helpful as we’d avoid the Spain, Germany, France & Portugal half of the draw

Southgate looks worried and doesn't exude confidence.

No need to worry, we've got this tournament in the bag.

Sitting too deep again. It shows when Pickford is busy with his feet. This is tedious.

Typical fùcking boring, negative, unimaginative, shìte Southgate/England performance again. Don't say that to Harry Kane though, he might start crying again. Complete contrast second half;  3-1. Bring on the Dutch. >:(

Good to hear Northampton getting a mention.

The current Mrs T has control of the TV and remote. I have my lap top and headphones on. She cannot understand why she is more excited about bake off. I can though.

Fùcking hell man, sort yourself out. ;D

ITVx live stream. Full screen + headphones. And a couple of bottles of Abbott Reserve. Im sorted. Shame about the game though.

Southgate's responsibility for the negative "be patient" tactics. I pity any supporters who get to watch his football if he moves back into club football.

Another Scotland-esque performance. Slovenia defended well and we didn’t have a clue how to unlock them.
Let’s hope a more attacking team allow a bit more space to open them up. I hope we don’t bail out with a whimper.

Harry Kane suggesting that we might need extra time and penalties in the next round, says it all really. This much vaunted front line, cannot play properly in an England formation, outside of their club formation. How many times was Foden waving his arms around, saying gimee the ball? De Bruyne would have found him. But Bellingham cannot. How many crosses found Kanes head? Assuming that he hadnt dropped deep again. I doubt that he has such poor service at Munich.
As for dropping TAA, and then bringing him on as a sub with little time left, shows how little confidence Southgate has in his squad.
That was a poor,poor, game. Massive improvements needed in just the basics for the next game.

What a yawn! Are these really the same players I watch on tv every week in the Prem?
I actually think Southgate has been a decent England manager but bringing Gordon on a minute from the end! Maybe he's now lost the plot.

England, the only country in the world where it's football team finish top of the group in a major football competition and the fans moan about it  ;D

We finished top by winning 1 of our 3 games and scoring 2 goals in the most boring group in the competition. How many £million is this England team worth.

No point in having 70% possession when the majority of it is non threatening areas of the pitch, Slovenia were happy to play for the draw and their defence would have been delighted that almost all of the play was in front of them, are our forwards instructed to not run at opposing defenders and take them on. It was 30 minutes before we had a shot at goal and at that time Slovenia looked more like scoring from opportunities presented to them by our loose passing.

If only it was that simple. The French guys I work with and not too enamoured by their team either.
We just have to hope they come to life against a more open team in the knock out stages. If we get the Dutch it will be a different type of game.
I'm not sure that Southgate will make the positive changes needed. I'd definitely drop Bellingham or Foden, based on what we've seen Bellingham. There is pretty clearly far more intent and energy coming off the bench.
Even then, if we take the lead will be strong enough to grab another or hold onto it against better opposition?

The fans backing sounded amazing and not surprised there were some gripes at the end considering the thousands of pounds people have shelled out and the talent at our disposal, regardless of being unbeaten so far.
I'm sure we are witnessing Southgate's swansong.

Timi Elšnik played the full 90 minutes against England last night.

Would it be possible to change the title to "England at the Euros 2024"? It would make more sense given how this thread has developed.

wouldn't be half the player if it were not for those crucial nine games in claret.

Foden gone home due to a family issue...

Gordon finally to be unleashed perhaps?

Palmer has to start on the other side, absolute fearless.

Quick dash home due to a childbirth issue. Expected to be back for Sunday. If his mind was elsewhere in the last two games, provided all goes well, then there should be no excuses for the next game.

I had completely forgotten that we had Timi Elsnik on loan until he was mentioned last night. Scored his only goal for us in our 1-1 draw with Morecambe.

 

I must admit I have no recollection of him at all playing for us. I must have seen him though.

Was it during lockdown?

Nor did I but we were mentioned during his interview on Talksport yesterday...

Not during lockdown, I remember seeing his goal against Morecambe I think in 2019.

It was in 2019 according to Wiki. He was on the books of Derby County and went on loan to Swindon (22 games), Mansfield (19) and then us 9 scoring one goal.

He then signed for Olimpija Ljubljana in Slovenia for whom he has played 128 matches and scored 21 goals. I have to say he has looked a decent player in the Euro's so far.

Still don't remember him though.

Credit where it is due to Southgate. The other night my uncle was watching the game and it was so boring he got up to turn it off. He's been bedridden for two years.

;D ;D

Hang on, I read it was someone's grandma.

He's working miracles!

That was a lie. Grandma doesn't like football.

If England win tomorrow I really don’t fancy their chances against an excellent and entertaining Swiss side who have just beaten Italy with complete ease.

iI am looking forward to the Danes beating the arrogant Krauts tonight.

Doh!

As we build up our expectations for today's game, as much as we would really enjoy to give someone a good tonking, remember that we are unbeaten in the tournament so far and if it stays that way to 14th July, we have a really good* chance of winning the whole thing.










*Let's just ignore the prospect of penalties and facing the host nation at this stage.

Lost by a toe and a flick of the finger. Never write off the Germans.

Mainoo starting. I would rather have seen Palmer myself. Lets see how it plays out.

Not playing out very well so far, very shaky at the back.

Well inspired Ivan. He's one of our own!

The difference now is, Toney gets half an hour, instead of two minutes.

I heard he had placed a cheeky wager on scoring a hattrick.

Surely he has done enough to start next time.

Never in doubt. Always said Southgate was a great manager. Especially with the advice he gets from
Hasselwank.😄

We got lucky tonight and will have to be better against the Swiss or they will roll all over us.

Sometimes you have to get lucky. You could hear the boos when Toney came on with so little left.
Could we limp all the way to the final?

The current Mrs T had the TV, and I was watching on my lap top with headphones, and you could clearly hear the boos throughout the second half everytime the ball went backwards to Pickford. Who was very lucky when the lad tried lobbing him from the halfway line. Im not a fan of this keeper/sweeper mullarky. He is going to get caught out soon.
Good Cobblers link at the final whistle, with Toney, Walker, and JFH all on the pitch.
We must improve to progress, too many players were waving their arms around, unsure of who to pass it too. Thats just basic schoolboy stuff. And Southgate needs to make his substitutions earlier. And Guehi will be a big loss for the next game. Decent goal though.

https://x.com/i/status/1807485272851947936

Im not much of a Roy Keane fan, but, he talked down his fellow presenters for having a go at Southgate and the players, he just stated that in a major tournament you have to get results and the performance doesnt matter, the win is all that counts.

The best thing about last nights game was that we had two ex-Cobblers in the side at the same time, with Ivan 'assisting' Kane with the second goal. Pity Ivan didn't score right at the end but he certainly gave it a whack.

I thought they were lucky buggers to win and I have to say I felt sorry for Slovakia. We shall have to up our game against the Swiss, but let's not forget Scotland drew with them.

Agreed but I think that’s simply because he is a contrarian- had the others been taking that line he would have been giving it both barrels on how s***e both the team and the manager were.

He’s good entertainment value but a bit of a pratt (saying for a friend obviously)

I hope Ivan has told Bellingham his overhead goal was not as good as Toney's debut overhead goal at Dagenham!

Portugal, France and Belgium haven't lived up to their reputations today.

It's going to the Fatherland..

There's a lot of teams trying not to win it, who will blink first and show that they are serious contenders?

I hope not.

Is Ben Fox playing as a ringer for Austria?  :)

Stuart Burt is another Cobbler in the Quarter Finals:

Game 46, Quarter Finals
Hamburg, 5th Jul 2024 20:00 BST
PORTUGAL vs FRANCE
Referee: Michael Oliver ENG
Assistant Referee 1: Stuart Burt ENG
Assistant Referee 2: Dan Cook ENG
Fourth Official:  Szymon Marciniak POL
Video Assistant Referee: Pol van Boekel NED
Assistant Video Assistant Referee 1: David Coote ENG
Assistant Video Assistant Referee 2: Tomasz Kwiatkowski POL

The English officials are probably the only Englishmen hoping that England get knocked out...

Well done Spain tonight, I thought it was a good game tonight but don't these teams know that they are supposed to make about 20 sideways and backwards passes near the half way line before they go forward.

Not saying that I am happy about that, but I've just been arrested for running down the street bollock naked singing allelujah.

Did you cross the road without pressing the button on the pedestrian crossing? Off with your head!

Like you know anything about international football.

Remember this, it still applies.

We are certainly lucky being in the easy side of the draw and got lucky on Wednesday, how long can our luck hold?  We certainly need to up our game but even the Scots held the Swiss to a draw.

Much better lineup I'm more opptermistic than I have been in previous games

It's been better, but not by much. Mainoo looking OK, no shots on target though...

Yes a little better, would be better still if somebody ejected the bloke with that bloody annoying drum.

Pickford seeing too many back passes for my liking, one short corner went back to him. Mainoo with some nice touches, and Konsa with some excellent tidying up.
Kane again looking isolated. Lets see what happens in the next 30 minutes.

Never in doubt, still unbeaten.

A big lack of of peachy crosses, for anybody to get a head on, unlike the swiss who showed how to whip them in, albeit with some whoeful finishing.
I felt that the midfield was again flat, slow and negative, too much attention payed towards our sweeper/keeper. Konsa had an excellent game before he took that knock.
For once, five excellent penalties were taken. We could play s***, and still win this. Who knows?

Well done England. The performance was much better and a great set of penalties.

Same goes for France who have been as bad if not worse!.

I would say we were lucky but that's the theme for the tournament for us maybe it is the year it comes home

Yeah really lucky   ::) What game were you watching, you sound like a typical depressing England fan, more likely you've never got off your backside to even watch a game.

The most frustrating thing is that we only come to life when we need to score. A bit like many a Cobblers side. Great win though and great pens. Quite a skill to hit the ball without looking at it.
Definitely anyone’s but I’d go for Spain at this point.

At a time when promising young players are cherry picked from youth teams by premier league clubs, it’s great to see Toney, a player that came through and I got to see wearing the cobblers shirt contributing for England at a major tournament.

That is the best set of 5 penalties I have seen in a competition. Fortunately the Swiss had not got their shooting boots on when presented with those late chances but an improved England performance.

One of my teams is still in it.

Long may that continue.

Since the turn of the century we have played the Netherlands 9 times and won 1.

I think last night demonstrated that tonight is pretty irrelevant.  :P

More than happy for this to be brought back up after the weekend if required!

Spain certainly look well ahead of us, last nights game should have been the final.

Still applies.

We are due a good performance tonight surely

Don't reckon that was a penalty, but will accept the referee's decision.

High and late on Harry, stonewall penalty. Should’ve been sent off too, disgraceful refereeing. Must have taken a bung.

Stonewall. Would be given as a free kick everywhere else on the pitch. High boot studs first.

Got lucky with the penalty, only reason I can see why it was given was for studs up but they had to be challenging for the ball at that height. We really ought to go on and win this, they are giving us the midfield and funnelling back to their own goal. Then they try to win our balls into the box and counter attack. I'm not very impressed with the Netherlands.

As above.

Southgate is a tactical genius. Watkins, what a sub!

Surely you mean twice 😁

'Rushden Cobblers' flag on the way to Berlin.

The Dutch are weeping in four languages at least.

And no longer invulnerable to cool.

That was a massive improvement, particularly in the first half. Saka had them on toast one side, as did Trippier the other, (when he didnt stray offside). Bellingham, Foden, and Mainoo found loads of room down the middle. First thought was that it was a harsh penalty, but it would have been a foul anywhere else on the pitch, so probably correct.
How Watkins was MOM ahead of Foden was beyond me. Watkins only touched the ball a few times.
Overall, the Dutch were not that good, and Spain will be a completely different ball game. The way that they keep the ball, they will have Kane and Bellingham chasing shadows, and run them into the ground. I do expect Kane to be subbed again. I do expect Spain to be too strong for us, but will be a very happy bunny to be proven wrong.
My flag stays up for a few more days.

As opposed to how many we will be on Sunday?  ???

Exactamundo el capitano.

Spain are clearly the best team in the competition but historically we have had the better of them with 13 wins, 4 draws and 10 defeats. since the turn of the century only 9 games with 4 wins each.

I see Kane was our lowest rated player and he has had a poor tournament. Once again Saka gets to the byline cuts the ball back into the area and Kane is not even close, this happened several times in the previous game but I expect he will be selected again for the final. It is no good saying "but he scored the penalty" as Super Sam has a better penalty conversion rate than Kane but he is not in the team. As was shown in the previous game we have plenty of players capable of scoring from the spot and each of those 5 were better penalties than Kanes.

We have to be on top of our game and hope Spain are a bit below par if we are going to come out on top.

Numbers mean nothing. For instance in this tournament so far, Spain have 6 outright wins, and we have 3 outright wins, three draws (one penalties victory).
Its about what happens on the night, not what happened in the past.

Well said TK.

True, how many times had we beaten The Netherlands prior to last night?

I cant imagine a gig being stopped for the eggchasers.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cerv02pdj2no

Will we be seeing 'Sir Gareth' after the weekend? Kids of today probably think England are always this successful in tournament football.
I wonder how many were shouting for Toney to come on ahead of Watkins? Even now the 5 Live phone ins have people calling for Kane to be dropped for Watkins/Toney in the final!!  ;D Some guy saying we were really lucky and it would have been a disastrous tournament if Bellingham hadn't scored at the death, isn't that football?!

Spain are good but they don't have the same quality of players they had a few years back, although arguably more effective with a more direct style.
Let's hope we make a really good fist of it and go one better this time.

Really looking forward to Sunday and would desperately love England to do it despite saying for years. "We'll never win another major competition in my lifetime". But here's one for you;
If you had to choose, on pain of death, between Cobblers staying up next season or England winning on Sunday, which would it be? Probably not the most popular choice, but Cobblers for
me, club before country every time. :o

Ivs seen the Cobblers avoid relegation loads of times, but I have yet to see England win a tournament.

I agree with Shoey, but that is a VERY good point.

With you on that one. We've gone down loads of times before so it's no big deal.

Be nice if we didn't go down again though, not to the 4th anyway. It would be nice to see us stay up for more than 3 years in our lifetimes as well.

So you would rather see us finish 19th next year, ahead of England winning something for the first time in nearly 60 years?
When (hopefully) the Welly Road erupts on Sunday night, in a spontaneous outpouring of pure unbridled emotion and joy, you will be the one walking past tutting, and muttering something about avoiding relegation? Those Hawkwind gigs have sent you into a spiral of doom!  ;D

Well, I didn't actually say that did I. I said on pain of death. It was hypothetical. So when we win on Sunday I'll be going as mental as anyone. But.......actually on pain of death, Cobblers every time. ;D

Club before country.

The better dilemma is promotion to the Championship or England winning the Euros. The majority will have witnessed neither, the proper olds both.

The dilemma is irrelevant. It's club or country, whatever you may have witnessed.
 I'll take promotion to the Championship though. :D

Still applies.

Shaw starting, Trippier on the bench.

Zut alors

Phew

Zut alors

Come on Ivan

They laid on the floor for two minutes of the four of injury time but don’t think we would have scored again.
Beaten by the better team but did great to reach the final again.

Kane looks a spent force to me. Not convinced Gareth is a great manager - tending towards the negative when the team's strengths are going forward.

Not convinced Spain were as good as the commentators are making out.

Oh well. Normal service is resumed. At least we've got the more important football to look forward to. :o

Personally I don't think the players are anything like as good as the hype surrounding them, not when they play for England anyway. There's been the odd flash, Bellingham's two goals, Watkins and Palmers goals and Guehe looks a star of the future. Pickford was easily the man of the match tonight, Kane, Bellingham and Foden dire.

Maybe a new manager with a more attacking mindset would get the best out of them but unless we appoint Klopp I don't see who else would be in the frame, no English manager springs to mind.

Having said that they did well to get to the final although they had the benefit of playing the weaker teams.

Agreed, Kane was obviously not match fit but got picked every time, Spain not great today but had a game plan and had an attacking mindset. We only start playing when we go behind, scared of losing rather than being excited of winning.
A more attack minded coach would get more out of this group of players, don’t know who should be next though as nobody obvious springs to mind.

Taking 10 steps back here. How for 8 years have we ended up with a gaffa that was sack by Middlesborough, assisted by an assistant from Crewe then Chelsea Reserves, coached by a coach sacked by Burton Albion, QPR, Northampton then Burton Albion again..

The players have showed in the top leagues in the world they aren’t overhyped, like France though who also have a great squad they are poorly managed in terms of tactics, style and patterns of play. It’s f@cking neanderthal football to have your goalkeeper constantly punting the ball long straight to the opposition and giving away possession. There is a reason Pickford plays for Everton, no modern thinking team would touch him with a bargepole.

If we are going down the negative theme, how about adding that relied upon bringing on the former and current Brentford attackers to win the match.


Actually, I am happy with how well we have done, as overall in my life I have experienced more not qualifying or not getting out of the group stages than any level of success. To be expecting us to win each game is a novelty I am happily getting used to. For expectations of at least reaching the semi-finals to be the norm is beyond a dream from when I was growing up and in the prime of my life. From what they have experienced in their short lives the Bingers Boys have in footballing terms, both club and country (okay, they have two), have exceeded what I could have ever hoped for. Long may that continue.

I watched the game on ITV and was amused after our fine equaliser by Palmer who had only just come on when the commentator said "Gareth Southgate you genius". This would be the same genius who picked our worst player, Harry Kane, for every match. How many games were we losing when he was subbed and things only improved afterwards?
Spain deserved their victory and were the best team in the tournament but their second goal was disappointing as the player on the left wing who laid on the pass was in acres of space when he received the ball and we had no chance of stopping him getting his pass away.

Everytime Kane was taken off we played better and looked more like scoring- so what does Southgate do? - same old misplaced loyalty.

And then has the audacity to come out at the end and say we struggled at part in the tournament due to fatigue.

The last group game and the last 16 were a great opportunity to give some of the players that were leggy a rest.

Why didn't he I wonder.

The same reason that Boothroyd was involved in the England set up. Its not what you know, but who. Anyway, I think that Southgate deserves some credit. In eight years, he has taken us to a World Cup semi, and two consecutive Euro finals. Theres not many managers anywhere else with that on their CV.
Allardyce most certainly would not have even come close to achieving that.

Wouldn't take to much notice of Mysterious  Curle, he is one of the most depressing posters on this forum,  nothing is ever good enough, Club or Country.
Whilst agreeing that Southgate hasn't played the most attractive football, I agree with Tabassco with his appraisal,  Southgate has taken a team that capitulated against Iceland,  and taking them to a World Cup semi final and two Euro finals. Englands current World raking is testament to a great improvement over Southgates tenure.

Spain played through the tournament with joy. I am not sure I have ever seen the runners-up play with anything but a sour awkwardness. The tournament draw was lop-sided to a point of absurdity. After the game Southgate was moaning that Spain had an extra day to prepare! Dear oh dear.

To lose to a team that had to beat Italy (the current euro champions), France (world cup runners up) and Germany (host nation) on their way to the final, is still an achievement whatever you negative muppets have to say about it.

The negativity has been there throughout the tournament and some people would have genuinely hated it if we'd won, or at least not given us the credit deserved.

Our recent past has been far, far more successful than most people around have ever witnessed. Easy to manage from the sofa but Southgate as a figurehead and coach is everything you need as an England manager.
Even the pelters at Kane. He hasn't been fully fit but still the (joint) top scorer of the tournament and the subs have had the desired impact when needed. I've always thought he looks a bit of a donkey but you don't score the sheer volume of goals he has without being world class at what he does. TBF he didn't get a lot of service.
I heard some calling for Toney to replace him in the starting line up, what's he scored 3/4 goals in his shortened season?!

I'm disappointed we didn't go for it a bit more when it was 1 v 1, that was probably our best change to nick it and it was always going to be close.
It makes a really nice change though to have some interest into the latter stages of tournaments. 

Not sure about that, well, not English people anyway.

You are absolutely right. It is a hell of an achievement to lose to Spain.

My view before this tournament started remains the same. Southgate has taken the team as far as he can. It needs an injection of new ideas and a fresh approach to take them to the next level, whatever that maybe.

Its easy to manipulate stats to make a point. A semi final, a quarter final and two finals is bloody decent on anyones standards. However, IF we had been knocked out in the 2nd round (which 9 times out of 10 we would have been given the performance) then a quarter final followed by last 16 is pretty standard for England teams over the years. Of course we eventually won that match, just about got over the line against Switzerland thanks to some excellent penalties and then a wonder finish in injury time saw of the Netherlands. Our luck finally run out yesterday against an excellent Spanish side.

For me, Gareth should leave now with his head held high. If he stays then I fear he will regret doing so. There is an excellent base to build on. Who takes over is the biggest issue because there isn't a stand out candidate. I cant see Klopp taking it (if he would then brilliant). But other than him, no idea! The only two English managers that have decent recent form are Howe and Potter and both of those would come with a huge risk. Howe is extremely negative at times with his approach to games against the bigger sides and really uses the dark arts to his advantage. Whilst Potter seemed star struck at Chelsea and didn't seem to be able to manage the big ego's. Ex player wise, there's obviously Lampard (hmmm) and Gerrard (definitely not). Rooney ha ha. Lampard *might* be alright and is always impressive when he talks. I wouldn't be convinced he'd be an upgrade though, but Southgates club management record was pretty woeful and much worse than Lampards and over the course of his 8 year tenure, he's done rather well.

Club management is an entirely different beast. Lets face it. Anyone can pick the best 22-25 players England has available and they'd get 18 of them right! But then you've then got to glue them together. Its that part of the job which is so difficult because you sign players at club level that will play in your system and compliment the players already there. Southgate has not been able to get Foden, Bellingham or even Saka anywhere near the levels they perform at week in week out. We had the same issues with Lampard and Gerrard. Before that, John Barnes and Chris Waddle used to be really hit and miss for England. So its happened for generations now. It clearly isn't as simple as it looks!

Tough one eh!

Eddie Howe would be my choice if Southgate leaves.

I stand by that....there are also Cobblers 'fans' who prefer it when we lose, it feeds their existence. Crazy but true, the evidence is there to read and the overriding motivation is to whinge or be proved 'right', whatever that is? You see how quiet some go when there is a whiff of positivity in the air.

I do find it hilarious reading the armchair managers. Leading a national side must be one of the toughest jobs.
I think with the talent on paper people expect us to play like Man City. If Pep was in charge I'm sure we wouldn't be playing like Man City.
You don't reach two consecutive finals by luck.

He clearly massively has the players on his side and holds himself fantastically. I'm sure if he moves on now we'll look back with fondness when the likes of Potter, Howe or Lampard take over.

I think we ran out of energy and (as one of those armchair managers) the only change I would have made was to take Bellingham off and pushed Rice further up to play to his strengths. Spain were a very good side though.

I certainly hope we don't appoint Lampard, sacked at Chelsea, sacked at Everton and since going back to Chelsea 1 win in 11 games. Good player but I've never been impressed with him as a manager.

Of course DavCob is right,  some people have moaned the whole tournament through, they genuinely would of hated England winning.  
Same type of person will be doom and gloom about NTFC, it's Owners ,manager and players. They will moan about not signing players, they will moan about players who have signed, they complain about results, win or lose, friendlies or League games. They will say any success is luck and any failure was predictable. It's a strange existence but one they thrive on.

Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney, Gary Neville, Tony Adams,  the list of England stars who failed at management is very long.
Going by Southgates promotion from the U21s, then the FA will probably look at Lee Carsley next.

Others that spring to mind (and ponder);

Alan Shearer
Alan Ball
Glen Hoddle
Stuart Pearce
Bobby Moore
Kevin Keegan (I quite liked him)
Johnny Hollins
John Gregory & Phil Neal

Sir Bobby Charlton, possibly the greatest English footballer of all time, but didn't do well as a manager either.

Indeed - he cut a sad figure trying to manage Preston but I think genius footballers rarely have the skills to manage, motivate and even understand a team of players with mixed abilities.

Re the criticism of negative comments re England I think it's completely reasonable to point out (1) we offered scant reward to loyal fans in the manner of any entertainment, and (2) Southgate continued to start players that had performed poorly whilst players who changed the game when playing rarely got more than a cameo appearance - Southgate's team selection reminded me of Boothroyd's play off final team selection in casting a negative atmosphere even before a ball was kicked

I can think of a particular Scottish manager who was a bit s*** as well..................
Pat Crerand.

At least 4 Cobblers flags at the final, including our 'Rushden Cobblers'.

What was the atmosphere like inside the ground at the final whistle?

Most of the England fans stayed and showed respect to Spain.

Massive problems for fans travelling back via Prague as a jumper stopped trains for hours.