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1  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Should The Trust Have Invoked The ACV? on: April 28, 2022, 20:41:05 pm
I agree with every word of that. A couple of weeks ago I actually contemplated trying to get involved but decided against it for two sets of reasons. The first set are personal -  I'm so busy at work at the moment I can't get everything done as it is and with elderly parents to care for and 4 kids to ferry about I barely get to spend any proper time with my wife, so throwing another commitment into the mix just won't work.

The second set are more about the realities of it...

  • On your own you'd be a lone voice against seemingly united board (if the unanimous ACV vote is anything to go by). To have any hope of affecting the sea change that would be required to change the Trust's course you'd need a group of people to run for election together.
  • I'm not currently a member. To get involved I'd have to join and by doing so I'd be effectively adding weight to the numbers used to justify the Trust's reach. It's a catch 22 I know, but it doesn't feel right to me.
  • I don't want to sound rude here but there's no nice way to say it - I don't think I'd get on with many of the existing board because, frankly, a lot of them (and their advisors) just don't come across as very nice people.  It could be they are all lovely in real life and are just unused to dealing with others on social media, but some of them just don't come over very well (I exclude GPC and Andy Roberts from that)
  • This one I really can't quantify, but from reading the minutes and the comms and the articles on the website I just don't think I'd enjoy it. It all just seems so staid, formal, boring and utterly lacking in dynamism. I'd just get frustrated by the "by the book" bureaucracy and structure. This is a view that has only been reinforced by the feedback on the podcast the other day from the guy that attended a Trust meeting.

It's a shame because I really see the value of a supporters trust, I just can't agree with the actions or the conduct of the current board. Part of me genuinely would like to get involved but the bigger part realised it just wouldn't work for me. It would just end up being bad for my health!

Thats a great and fair post BOTN

I know it will shock you, but I am a nice guy, honest,  Grin but I am so frustrated at Northampton in general. I travel quite a bit, so I see what other towns and cities are doing, and in Northampton we have a can't do attitude and anything we do do is always underwhelming and on the cheap.

Anybody been past Boston's new ground and set-up ? Great glass fronted main stand with restaurant etc, 4G pitch at the side - Looks amazing for their level plus modern Starbucks and Costa outlets etc nearby.?

I want Northampton and NTFC to be great and so do others, its perhaps just about our levels of belief in our owners, how much they trust what he says and then how much we are bothered to take action
The Trust frustrates me too but it is very difficult to get people to take action, like yourself, there is always a reason not to get involved or do more

The Trust has been on the outside ever since KT arrived -
Again we are trying to PROTECT the football club for the medium and long term.
I have asked many times for those who disagree with me to show and tell me, where I am wrong exactly (and its not about me having to be right) but they never do - like the podcast guy at our meeting but refuses to.

But propaganda and misinformation powerfully put out by the club, with all it's resources, is hard to battle against for a Trust with 8 or so board members on a volunteer basis whilst not spending members donations.

Everybody has slightly different opinions, some are more passive than others, some put in a lot more time than others and yes it is bloody boring talking about certain things. But that is what a Trust has to do, someone has to focus on car boots and paypal  Grin

the test will be in the coming weeks, when the Trust show the plans for the ACV and what it means for NTFC.

I am not sure that any NTFC fan could really be against it, although I expect that KT and some others will try to tie the ACV to the East stand completion.

Given that the East stand completion and ACV had never been mentioned together until the last 6 weeks, it is unacceptable and shameful to use that as a stick against the Trust and ACV

2  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Grounds Visited on: April 27, 2022, 20:08:02 pm
Chester away 5-0 win 1st game of the season 1987 was pretty good too
3  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Grounds Visited on: April 27, 2022, 20:02:49 pm
I remember a testimonial at The County Ground against Leicester City in the early to mid seventies which I think, was for Terry Branston. Still got the program somewher. Why Leicester, I don't know.
We also played Liverpool in a friendly a few years later, must have been for Phil Neal. Do we still have testimonials? Don't remember many since.

Think the Liverpool (and Arsenal too) were for Dave Bowen

I was also at both the Scarborough and VS Rugby games (my first away game without my dad too  Smiley)
4  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Should The Trust Have Invoked The ACV? on: April 27, 2022, 20:01:09 pm
Thank you - much clearer & confirms my understanding but emphasises the trust surely must have a plan and financial backers or the current action is totally pointless from any practical perspective.

Thanks GPC for spelling it out !

So what was the alternative? Let KT take our ownership of our land, when we don't have to ??

Again the process was not started by the Trust, it was forced upon us by KT & WNC

Not sure if you are trying to find another stick to beat us with (which I know is not your style) but it was either try to find a solution or allow KT to take it and sell it for what we all expect is for his personal gain.

as almost everyone I here, who cared to comment, agreed, that the land is better off with supporters (might argue which supporters) than with KT / DB

Not sure why it is wrong for us not to have everything tied before we registered our interest. We have had a few offers of interest already. (and that is without even talking to those that had expressed various interests in the past)

5  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Should The Trust Have Invoked The ACV? on: April 27, 2022, 19:53:07 pm
Derek - not really answer to my question (which I believe a lot of people would like clarification on) - it’s simple really - what happens to the ACV in 6 months time if the trust cannot buy the land and/or the council reject any planning application?

sorry Peter, what are you getting at?

The answer above is pretty clear surely?

After that time the freeholder can sell the asset

6  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Should The Trust Have Invoked The ACV? on: April 27, 2022, 16:06:20 pm
All fair points - however given the very public deteriorating relationship between the owners and the trust, plus the fact the wider land deal has been now discussed for some time I think it is reasonable to assume some planning had been done prior to invoking the clause.

Perhaps you can help me on an outcome question - what happens to the status of the ACV if after the designated 6 month period the Trust are not able to buy the land (one would presume with some outside financial backers), and/or the council reject any planning application associated with it? - my understanding is the Trust's rights to the ACV are then lost, the land remains the property of the council with the lease held by CDNL - if this assumption is correct then it is surely a very dangerous game to invoke the clause without firm plans in place ? - if I'm incorrect on this, some factual clarification would be very helpful. 

But the ACV would be lost after 6 months assuming that the council sold it to KT.

That is what it is there for, to give notice to the community group it is up for sale and they have 6 months to raise the funds and make an offer.

Again the council and KT started the initial process by converting it from leasehold to freehold.

The completing the East stand is just another smokescreen that has suddenly been attached to that bit of land - when before it was no stand no land for the whole 20 acres

That is what supporters should be focussed on -

Get the council and club to agree to a legal document that allows KT to sell the 17 acres whenever he wants and completes the East stand within 18 months of the first sale of land

None of this wishy washy you can have the ACV for £1 if we DON'T build.  The point is we want it ffffff built ffs - how is that a deal that supporters can get behind?

7  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Should The Trust Have Invoked The ACV? on: April 26, 2022, 17:43:13 pm
To be honest I think the "abuse" is in the minority and I think all sides need to drop the paranoia (I myself have been accused of writing hostile posts about the trust which I refute absolutely).

Of course we are all interested in the clubs plans for the land but with respect that is a separate (albeit pertinant) question and this thread is about the the Trust's plans following the decision to invoke the ACV clause.  

Not really picking on hope Derek, and yes of course there are lots of hurdles with no guarantees but my point is there has to be more than hope or indeed thoughts and ideas at this stage - you have answered the question and have suggested a grace period of 3-4 weeks. I think that is reasonable given the complexities involved so look forward to those details before the end of May  

Thanks Peter, will do
8  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Should The Trust Have Invoked The ACV? on: April 26, 2022, 17:42:05 pm
Derek, you are totally right, we are where we are. I don't see the point of repeatedly dragging up KT's inaction and faults. The vast, vast majority of fans know what they are. I truly don't think anything other than a minority thinks the sun shines out of his backside. Everyone knows he could/should have built the stand by now after the grand entrance and has over promised and under delivered etc. Everyone knows he is not running the club to leave an NTFC legacy for his grandkids.

However, that cannot be your (the Trusts) focus. You will have sensed that a number of the fan base (quite a few) are currently viewing the Trust in a poor light. Perception is reality, however misguided. You should also know that by continuously criticising the owners, you will encourage support for them. That's just how it works. You need to rebuild the relationship with the fans (forget the relationship with the club for now) if the goal is to gain support and ultimately members. In fact, to have a trust and fan base that are not aligned is possibly the most concerning aspect in all of this.
Definitely match day presence (with a stall) to rally the fans. We never see the key Trust members (maybe on social media...OK GPC with his personal hat on) actually talk about the team and football, the one thing we are all here for. I am sure one person could write a regular little slot, in fact GPC could do a sterling job to put something on the Trust forum.
Then the most important thing (currently) is to produce a credible plan for the ACV land. I don't think anyone (well some will) are expecting complicated site plans and a Dragons Den business case but you will need something to whet the appetite. I also agree that you have a few months for that and stuff like that doesn't appear overnight. I'd be all other the likes of Steve Massey, who whatever people think has something. Outside that I am sure you know all the routes to take for grants and local investors. Maybe time to call in the infamous local consortium?!

A genuine offer from me that I will print any media long as it doesn't say 'KT OUT'  Grin

Thank Tone, really appreciate your offer, is that from your print room you showed me?  so we could get some graphics done if we needed them? 

I have said that the Trust should try to talk to the fans and not at them ( yes I know all of you will be spitting your coffee out right now LOL ) and have said about talking about the game, players etc
even if it is done talking about stuff from the past rather than current stuff

I know that it is all about the football for most (for me I am more into the business of the club and getting it better, so the football is better for everyone - sorry it's just me - done all the games / grounds - just could not get excited about all the loan players and 1 year wonders (or dross)

Yeah a stall at the ground, not a good idea at the minute, lol. would becoming a ducking stall at best and a bomb site at worst  Grin Grin

But seriously I hope we are able to have an open evening where we can present the plans etc etc
9  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Should The Trust Have Invoked The ACV? on: April 26, 2022, 17:34:29 pm
I always used to like Atko but having recently heard a couple of (much loved) former players talk about him and the way he treated people in his time at the club he's gone right down in my estimation. The words "twàt" and "bully" were used...

You really mean, I used to like Atko until he joined the Trust !!!!!

10  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Should The Trust Have Invoked The ACV? on: April 26, 2022, 16:45:39 pm
So let me get this right.
The Trust went ahead with a vote already knowing that they would not be able to reach more than 35% of the membership unless they went ahead with a postal ballot, or maybe put an appeal in the Chron, on here, or on Facebook for people to vote on line perhaps, or was it because the board went down the route it did because it had the best chance of getting the result it wanted?

Democratic process my arse.

WRONG, I can assure you that there was nothing like that, sorry you didn;t like the result - but it was fair in it went to everyone whose email address we had, so was fair in that respect.

Just like Brexit, I'm sure if more people had more information they might have voted differently, but to me that goes both ways - as does those who voted and those who didn't.

Please move on, why not be positive and ask KT what his plan is for the ACV land
11  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Should The Trust Have Invoked The ACV? on: April 26, 2022, 16:40:36 pm
Who would they hand it over to? Unless this is your first move in starting a Trust 2.0?

I agree with others that any spare moment the Trust have should be focused on developing proposals. The moaning can be left to us losers.  Grin
I also wholeheartedly agree with the obsession of ‘right’ and ‘wrong’, ‘Trust’ or ‘owners’. It’s totally inaccurate (apart for a tiny minority) and a waste of energy. People’s fragile egos seem to trump what is actually important. There is little room left for rational discussion.
No singular organisation is covering themselves in glory at the moment.

Nice post Tone, I am trying to focus on the positive and not be posting on here but I keep getting asked questions  Grin

It would be easier and more productive if there was more positivity and encouragement, rather than mostly abuse or sly digs

I totally 100% agree that the Trust could have done things a lot lot better over the last 10 years but it is run by a small group of volunteers, trying not to spend members money, whilst trying to hold the owners to account, who have the local media in their pocket and an annual income of £5m +.  The Trust failed under Cardoza and now get dogs abuse for not repeating the same mistake.

Another question to ask is why did Ian Atkins join the Trust board?  He has had dealings with KT at other clubs. !

12  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Should The Trust Have Invoked The ACV? on: April 26, 2022, 16:34:00 pm
Derek - I think the above summarises very well why so many fans (neither KT lovers or Trust haters) are concerned about the decision - hope is absolutely not a strategy and again we are all waiting with varying degrees of patience as to what the plans for the land are now - you really have to move on (for at least the next 4 months) on what KT/DB have or haven't done with the land, stand or infrastructure to what the Trust's plan actually is - they have made a decision on behalf of all the supporters so when can we expect an update?

I ask then that I and the Trust are now given a grace period - stop the abuse, stop the pettiness, stop the games and allow us to concentrate on moving forward. Even better would be that they now start asking the club for the plans and ideas for the ACV, because at some point, it will come down to a decision for the fans and the council of what they want.

Trouble is Peter, that does not suit quite a few on here.

We are working on it and hope to have a heads of agreement in place within the next 3-4 weeks.

I have outlined our thoughts and ideas.

You pick up on the word 'hope' i am not sure why you think it is a poor word to use at this point. There are many obstacles and lots and lots of details to go through. We have to explain things better, we are trying to do that, we are just not in a position to say more at this time, surely you understand and can support that.

13  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Should The Trust Have Invoked The ACV? on: April 26, 2022, 16:25:39 pm
Derek, to reiterate you stated it would not be possible to complete the East Stand without having access via the ACV land. You stated it was “Looney Tunes” to suggest the Trust would deny access. I put it to you that no contract lawyer would condone the signing of any contract based on faith and asked you to get this confirmed by John Morgan. If this is confirmed it would mean that the club are justified in suspending completion of the East Stand until such time as the ACV issue is resolved. Please can you advise if you have had this justification confirmed as accurate or otherwise by the Trusts legal advisor? Thank you in advance.

That might be right but KT is hardly in a position of weakness is he.

But don't you think it suits KT's agenda to down tools and blame the Trust

He has a history of NOT completing the East stand - he could have done so many time over the years if he was as determined to get it done as he is in trying to destroy a supporter group.
14  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Should The Trust Have Invoked The ACV? on: April 26, 2022, 16:23:08 pm
Random I will answer another of your questions.
What would I like the Trust to do with the ACV land ?  I want it to be signed over to a fully independent supporter's representative body. One that listens to the fans and not just ignores and berates them for having an opinion.

Now I know you avoid and hate answering questions put to you, but.
Random, do you or the Trust think that the Trusts special advisor was correct to communicate with the rival bidders for the land ? Or was it a conflict of interest ?

well we have one, its the Trust  - also the Trust has been here for 30 years, saving the club twice, and they are the ones who bothered to protect the club in the first place with the ACV. I don't recall you questioning at the time or trying to form your own body.

It is what it is, we are where we are, please lets just move on and get this club moving forward.

How on earth is it a conflict of interest?  I would say it is due diligent and trying to protect both the club and the Trust. I know it doesn't suit your side but what exactly could he have said that they didn't already know ? 

Again for confirmation the first the Trust (and John) heard of Cilldara was mid February. They had had meeting with both the council and the club many times before then.

You do know that KT had meeting with them about selling the club and land to them?  they walked away when KT done his usual and changed the price. 

15  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Should The Trust Have Invoked The ACV? on: April 26, 2022, 16:14:32 pm
Every fan I'm sure will agree with this principle. But its rumour vs hypothetical

well that is what we are trying to achieve - it's not rumour or hypothetical

It is what we are working towards
16  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Should The Trust Have Invoked The ACV? on: April 26, 2022, 16:13:35 pm
Random, we're less sh1t than them is a really poor position to take. With all respect I suggest you stop with this approach and put your efforts into being better than them and showing us fans what a positive, football centric group looks like.

yes i sort of agree but can you say the same to you and the others (usual lot we all know who they are)

IF KT really really wanted to do anything with the East stand he has had amble time and money to do so (including a £6.68m Chinese bonus) and still hasn't done.

It is very galling that we, the Trust (and I) get some much crap thrown at us, take the last 10 posts or so above, some abuse personal, some at our faults, rarely any praise, forgiveness or encouragement, no matter what we say or do.

Its not about being less crap than them, I simply ask to be treat in at least the same way as them

We have had posters including you, screaming at the Trust "what's your plan" and many other less pleasant accusations and demands, whilst all the time never ask or criticise the club or owners one bit.

Sorry it just makes no sense to me (and others)
17  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Should The Trust Have Invoked The ACV? on: April 26, 2022, 13:56:37 pm
still waiting to hear what was the result of the 3 Buckingham meetings?

Any more plans or CGI's to show us fans?

thought not - oh i forgot the Trust invoked the ACV so suddenly those meeting are wiped from the memory !!!

You could not make it up
18  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Should The Trust Have Invoked The ACV? on: April 26, 2022, 13:55:04 pm
Heard a rumour that KT wants to sell 3/4 of the ACV land to pay off his debt,  sounds like a plan

No fans village, tiny car park and limited access to the East stand, all in front of a massive Buckingham build warehouse


Clear access for the East stand (i would transfer it back to the remaining ACV land - Sorry Cllr Bignall not a ransom strip at all )

Facilities that will increase the match day offering and experience

Decent profits into Sixfields Foundation to improve the stadium - ideally for both small projects and also part funding larger projects like NHE, South stand etc

(all run by professionals and accountable to supporters - with Supporters , club and possibly council, funding committee to decide where to allocate funds)

Not sure how any supporter of NTFC cannot get behind the Trust and that plan

KT has had almost 7 years and £40m to improve the stadium, what has he done?  more importantly what and when does he plan to do anything further?

19  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Should The Trust Have Invoked The ACV? on: April 26, 2022, 13:46:37 pm
Nigel as things progress are you will to use your substantial experience to move the Trust plans forward on the ACV?

20  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Should The Trust Have Invoked The ACV? on: April 26, 2022, 13:45:22 pm
Completely agree.

another genuine question

The Trust need more man or women power

Why not get involved and help shape a supporters Trust that works better for it's membership and all supporters?

Or how about a bit of balance for once.

I assume those who support and defend KT so vigorously, on the back of very little infrastructure improvements, will be absolutely delighted to get behind the Trust when we do come forward with a profitable action plan that will raise considerable funds for the stadium every season.

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