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1  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: August 25, 2020, 13:45:48 pm
Day Two of your 'How to win friends and influence people' course isn't going too well is it?

Very well thank you, Deepcut, especially in the face of some silly posts like yours above.
2  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: August 25, 2020, 12:14:11 pm
Actually, Shoemaker, nonsense.  Once again - I suggest you and others who want to know about the Trust's position on the East Stand and the wider redevelopment read the Trust's open letter to KT dated 14 August.  It also refers to NBC's position.  The letter can be seen on the Trust's website. 
3  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: August 25, 2020, 08:07:15 am
Deepcut –  I said I appreciated your thoughts and I do. 

However, I think you have misconstrued what I wrote.  What I said was that most of the information is out there in the public domain (e.g. Land Registry) if you seek it.  For example, it was only when documents were obtained from the Land Registry that I came to understand what the problem was behind the boundary issue which you will recall KT referred to in the months leading up to the June 2018 Cabinet meeting.  NBC had contrived to grant two leases, first one to NTFC and subsequently another to CDNL over the same area of land from the back of the East Stand to the middle of the athletics track area.  If you recall at the time KT said on several occasions that resolution of the boundary issue was the only matter holding up works being able to be commenced to finish the East Stand.  Not so it has transpired.  I mentioned that I have had a few exchanges with people (specifically, about the East Stand) and learned quickly the information on which they are basing their views is wrong.  I made no mention whatsoever of how “bad” is the information or any implication one way or the other.

The suggestion that if the Trust had the confidence of NBC and NTFC it wouldn’t need to hunt for information is ludicrous.  No local authority, NBC included, regards itself as an information bureau and is willing or able to hand out information on request.  Fortunately, the Freedom of Information Act has allowed the Trust to request and receive certain information, heavily redacted though it is where the Council considers it to be commercially sensitive.  The FOIA process is available to anyone.  As regards NTFC, the lack of any detailed information on the redevelopment from the club throughout the past 4 years has been an issue for a very long time and not only for the Trust but supporters generally.

The open exchange of letters between KT and the Trust on the East Stand and redevelopment is there for all to read and understand.  There is a gap between KT and the Trust on certain issues as identified in the Trust’s response. The Trust’s directors have identified these issues as being very important to safeguard the interests of the club in the long term.  That is the function of the Trust.  If and when these matters are agreed then it should be possible for more harmonious relations to be established between the club’s owners and the Trust.

4  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: August 24, 2020, 19:58:12 pm
Deepcut - I appreciate your thoughts but I doubt that the Trust is going to respond to what you have written on this site.  This is not its forum and it seems to me that very few Trust directors visit this site yet alone post on it. In fact so far as I can see few of the Trust directors are active on social media. But the Trust is not an arbitrator or peace maker. It is an independent organisation whose role is to seek to safeguard the club and its future.  It has its own views on the East Stand and the wider development and these have been published for all to read and understand.

As for me, what I know and have found out is largely but not wholly from looking into what is available at Companies House and the Land Registry.

I would say this that based on encounters I have had not only on this site but from time to time elsewhere the lack of knowledge about the development land, NBC's position and other situations is frightening.  Posters are making comments with perceptions not information. People tend to believe what they want to believe and then when the facts (not opinions) are put to them they go into denial.  As I have commented today, the inconvenient truth.
5  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: August 24, 2020, 17:41:38 pm
Claretparrot - no disagreement with your comments at all.  I think we will agree that the owners are seeking as close to a riskless transaction as is possible but it is apparent that the Council fearful of a Council taxpayer backlash cannot accept such a proposal.  
6  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: August 24, 2020, 17:30:35 pm
Deepcut - please explain what you think is the Trust's current path and modus operandi that so upsets you?  

My understanding is that after 18 months of KT shutting out the Trust a meeting is due to take place before long. In the absence of meetings what course of action could the Trust take other than through the various releases it made throughout this period via its website and social media outlets?  None of the statements to my reading were inflammatory but the club's owners seem to have a thin skin when it comes to perfectly reasonable questions being asked and a number of you on this site have always jumped to KT's support when these questions have met with silence.  Why this default position in support of KT? As regards the east stand and redevelopment issues, the Trust set out its position in its open letter dated 14 August and that is clear enough to me.  

7  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: August 24, 2020, 17:12:36 pm
Shoemaker - because the owners will not spend one pound of their own money finishing the East Stand. They will complete it only out of developments profits and at no direct cost to them unless they are confident of recovering that expenditure from development profits which translated means the gross proceeds of sales of plots of land behind the stand before there is any division of net profits with NBC. The Council are saying no way, do what you said you would do back in 2015. 

Claretparrot - thank you for your comment but the above is what this is what I posted at 16:08.  I hope this clarifies the position.
8  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: August 24, 2020, 16:59:59 pm
You would say that wouldn't you?!!

But it's past time to get over this Trust obsession. It is a distraction from the main event.  The Trust is doing what it can to safeguard the club and they are to be applauded for that. But it is time to focus on the club's owners and NBC.  For many of KT's followers on this site that is a big pill to swallow but swallow it they should.
9  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: August 24, 2020, 16:43:50 pm
It's not about interpretation but about fact.  This is what NBC told the Trust. Nearly 2 weeks later KT has not said anything to the contrary.
10  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: August 24, 2020, 16:35:29 pm
That is not correct.

It is correct.  See the Trust open letter which followed its meeting with the Council.

11  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: August 24, 2020, 16:05:30 pm
Shoemaker - because the owners will not spend one pound of their own money finishing the East Stand. They will complete it only out of developments profits and at no direct cost to them unless they are confident of recovering that expenditure from development profits which translated means the gross proceeds of sales of plots of land behind the stand before there is any division of net profits with NBC. The Council are saying no way, do what you said you would do back in 2015. 
12  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: August 24, 2020, 15:59:05 pm
BBS - sorry to disappoint you but my understanding is that there will be no discussion about the NTFC Sixfields situation at next month's Cabinet meeting.  
13  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: August 24, 2020, 15:30:10 pm
BOTN - more than happy to engage in debate but looking back over your postings concerning the Trust your position is clear as is mine. We are poles apart.  Like others you appear to have an obsession about all things Trust. Why, I wonder.

I am not the Trust, a director of the Trust  or a spokesman for the Trust but I am a life member of the Trust and delighted to be one and support the Trust in its endeavours.  The endless attacks on the Trust from you and others on this site are tedious and unceasing at a time when the the focus of attention should be on the club's owners and where they are or are not on the subject matter of this thread.  You could be forgiven to thinking this thread is all about the Trust given the focus of attention it gets from KT's supporters.  All very unbalanced and jaundiced.  Like the inconvenient truth of where are owners are at with NBC the Trust is a useful diversion on which to vent frustrations.

To use your Trump analogy this is straight from his playbook - the accuser becomes the accused. The Trust is all to blame for the East Stand/redevelopment situation.  
14  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: August 24, 2020, 15:05:15 pm
BOTN - no one from the Trust is crowing about anything.  I know you have a vitriolic hate concerning the Trust but, really, this kind of posting is, like you, intellectually bankrupt.  
15  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: August 24, 2020, 14:47:41 pm
Well said Manny - for wazzacobbler and fellow travellers a case of the inconvenient truth
16  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: August 24, 2020, 14:35:23 pm
Get a life, wazzacobbler - always having a go at the Trust even on inconsequential matters, It is infantile of you. 

You could say the Chronic should have checked with the Trust before embarking on yet another cut & paste job of what KT said without any comment or analysis. 
17  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: August 24, 2020, 11:29:53 am
The Trust remains the only supporters’ group willing to ask the difficult questions of the club’s owners and has been disparaged by some for having the temerity to do just that.  As the acting Chairman of Oldham Supporter’s Trust said recently about his own trust “It is always and always should remain a means of holding the club to account.  What it certainly isn’t is a pet for the owner………………..”   The small coterie of Trust critics on this site and those amongst that number who are always supportive of KT should be mindful.   

Now, 18 months since last meaningful contact from KT with the Trust he is according to some “holding out an olive branch”.  That remains to be seen.  The offer of a meeting may at the very least represent a recognition by KT that he cannot ignore the Trust and that despite the usual posters here and on the “NTFC endorsed” Shoe Army Facebook site claiming the Trust does not represent their views, without ever specifying what exactly are their views, the Trust may have more clout and represent a wider view than its critics would like to admit.  What comes out of the Zoom meeting remains to be seen but on the East Stand and the redevelopment the Trust’s position is set out clearly in its open letter to KT dated 14 August 2020. 

Very few of the usual critics of the Trust on this site or elsewhere have bothered to make a single comment on the detail contained in that letter but instead have chosen to have a go about the Trust directors not rushing to a Zoom meeting.  If that is the best they can do then it is woeful. The Trust is soft hanging fruit for the usual suspects but it is doing what it is set up to do and what it says on the tin.   It is to be remarked that KT has not replied to any of the matters raised by the Trust in its open letter.  They remain unresolved.  I don’t see any Zoom meeting having a positive outcome unless KT provides clear and acceptable solutions to those important issues.

The position of the Council as set out in the Trust’s open letter is very clear.  The Council is holding the club’s owners to their 2015 commitment (yes, I know, legally non-binding) to complete the East Stand from their own monies and not from the top slice of the gross proceeds arising from the sale of plots of land behind the East Stand.  The club’s owners are seemingly unwilling to move from their position so there is deadlock. Prospects for this deadlock being removed do not appear to be promising at all.  There has been no comment from KT on this fundamental issue.  It would need a U-turn by either the owners or NBC to remove the impasse but the Council has made it clear that if our owners did what they said they would do when buying the club then the road to the wider development would be open.  The disbanding of NBC is not many months away and indications are that the new unitary authority will inherit the matter in April/May 2021.



18  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: August 02, 2020, 20:24:51 pm
BOTN & singcobb good evening - and there with your comments lies the difference in our opinions and approach. A football club is not Kamal’s shop on the corner or, for that matter, a private family company.  Even KT has said the present owners are custodians only of the club.  Easy words but actions not words are how they will be judged in time.

If, as KT claims, NTFC is a community club then transparency and openness when it comes to finances must be part & parcel of that set up, especially when something so important as outside investors becoming 60% owners come onto the scene or at least that was according to the very limited information KT ever released on the subject.  Smoke & mirrors, always smoke & mirrors with him.  Transparency is an alien concept to him. To his credit and from his secretive perspective he plays our undemanding supporters like a fiddle.  My own conclusions on 5USports have been reached by following what paper trail is out there and in the public domain.  From that I have drawn my own conclusions.  I can and will say no more.  But if you are happy with your unquestioning complacency concerning our owners that is a  matter for you.  I assume the same complacency applies to the development issues.  I am not so minded.

I will say nothing further until if and when that elusive truth like oil comes to the surface.  TFAMH like Rip Van Winkle can sleep well, perhaps like Rip for a long time before I return. BFN.

19  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: August 02, 2020, 19:12:40 pm
I am not sure that either the club or the Trust have ever said the truth will come out.  I said this afternoon that truth & oil always come to the surface. I hope so but that remains to be seen.

I was listening to a Kieran Maguire (of Price of Football fame) podcast fairly recently and the discussion was about football clubs’ financial information.  Maguire was answering questions/complaints from supporters about the lack of financial information available to supporters and his simple answer was that it is not disclosed or it is hidden because football club owners do not want supporters to know. And there you have it. 

I think we as supporters should and are entitled to know and, if in the case of our club, I can do anything to make this happen I will.  If that is an agenda (I hate this over-used word) then so be it.  After all, what possible reason could KT have to hide anything from us paying and loyal customers when as owners they always act in the best interests of the club? Like a good marriage there should be no secrets. Agree Kelvin?
20  The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever? on: August 02, 2020, 17:46:23 pm
I have no idea what you are trying to say. My position is clear and enough said for now.
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