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The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?
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on: January 15, 2019, 10:23:12 am
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I’m not sure about that Mecca. There are a few hundred on here including trust members. The majority opinion on here matters. It’s a long way from the be all and end all and there are far greater elements of significance, but the opinion on here matters.
A few hundred anonymous posters. How many use facebook, Twitter etc? There's a vast, quiet, match going majority who have to and will be consulted by any group worth their salt.
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104
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The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?
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on: January 15, 2019, 09:50:19 am
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I agree, but if a fan owned club is the target then the opinion of the collective has relevance. Therefore anything that influences that, even the most radical should be subjected to scrutiny. The devil is in the detail as the saying goes.
Sure but this board doesn't represent a collective. It's good for throwing a few ideas around sure but anything more needs to be presented and discussed in a more formal way.
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105
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The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?
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on: January 15, 2019, 09:19:30 am
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I appreciate that Vintage and I’m not having a go I’m really not. What ever the ins and outs Worcester have invested a significant amount of money in the infrastructure because they believe it to be viable. All I am trying to point out is that it is not straight forward and you have to evaluate each case on its merits. The fact is that investment in the infrastructure at NTFC has a place. The decision about what to spend and when needs to be carefully planned but I would be part of the big picture and has a place. As I keep saying the major stumbling block is the capital. Beds would have you believe this an be achieved through increased attendance at the gate, food and beverage sales etc etc. But because we would have had no capital investment this would need to be achieved with Sixfields in its current state. However, he claims that this is the very thing that prevents us from increasing attendance etc. It’s the proverbial chicken and egg and is nothing more than total lunacy. This debate needs a dose of common sense and the bleeding obvious if it is going to gather momentum. Despite appearances I am not having a go at Beds either at the end of the day. I get frustrated because it detracts from what should be a discussion about realistic and viable options to drag the club out of what we universally accept is the endless cycle of being in the doldrums at best.
Some good points but probably not best to give to much credence to the back and forth on an anonymous internet messageboard with regards viability of anything.
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The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?
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on: January 15, 2019, 09:13:10 am
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They're not, but I think its a great example of what can be achieved but the risk that comes with. Some are prepares to risk high short term losses whilst some are not. When looking at the options open to us, we have to consider examples like this with high losses as well as those that appear to have been successful. There are lots of case studies such as this which any decision should be based on and not fanciful numbers plucked out of the air (not suggesting that you have done that). If we create numbers to make any proposal work then the likelihood of success is minimal and the risk to the club significant.
Obviously any infrastructural improvements would have to be costed and viable. We're not talking building the Allienz Arena here. Attention to detail and constant improvements and we'll make a club that is no longer a laughing stock in the town.
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108
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The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?
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on: January 15, 2019, 07:52:44 am
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3 generations of potential Northampton town fans have virtual been lost due to growing up listening to how poor a club we are. Many of them would hear, they're rubbish why do you want to watch them? Had we ever maintained a higher level of football at L1 playing in a much better less restrictive stadium that each season hosted several big attractive league games and a few in the cup, a buzz would've been created, young fans tend flock to these games able to stand/ sit with friends in what would be a more professional looking atmospheric, can wait to return, stadium. Current day Sixfields is the reason we witness **** levels of football, unable to escape division 4, it's why we cant get proper transfer fees for our young players, why we cant attract local businesse's because we don't have proper corporate facilities, But most importantly cant attract the 1000s of towns young people, because they are constantly told 'we are rubbish' After these past 20 years of zero growth, it's hard to argue against.
Of course it's possible with rounded infrastructure and club management policies to raise attendances. We're already at a small proportion of the catchment area with the population of the Town due to rise. Think of it as a challenge, a huge market that you need to get to buy into what is a pretty great sport. We're failing by the by. Instead of a "it's only the Cobblers" or "that'll do" approach we need a new mindset of pushing boundaries. We've had nearly a hundred years of short-term thinking. Time for a change.
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109
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The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?
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on: January 15, 2019, 07:23:14 am
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I'm with you on this Evers...the Wham stadium experience couldn't outstrip an Andrew Ridgely open mic night! I'm taking that you've only experienced it from an away perspective. Go in the home end at Accrington and see what Andy Holt is doing and I guarantee you'll be impressed particularly the local real ale bars! Meanwhile 3 years down the line the computer is still saying no on getting the decent real and craft ales made locally on sale at Sixfields. That's if you can get served. New training ground on the way at Stanley too.
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110
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The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?
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on: January 14, 2019, 18:17:26 pm
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I have to disagree with the views of Everbrite and others of that school of thought who argue that you need to create a successful team before you develop the ground. It is narrow one dimensional thinking.
Our much needed redevelopment is not just about what happens on the pitch on every other Saturday and occasionally on a Tuesday but to create a stadium with facilities that attract people to spend money at the venue 7 days a week.
Let me give a concrete example of what I am talking about. I live and work in the West Midlands. Worcester RFC is situated just off J6 of the M5 (not much unlike NTFC situated close to 3 M1 junctions) and in recent years demolished a stand worse than our original East Stand and in its place constructed an impressive new stand with restaurants, meeting rooms of various sizes and corporate hospitality boxes. I am not a rugby person but I have been there several times during non-match days at different times and the place has been heaving with people attending training sessions for their companies, marketing functions and so on. Just outside this stand a John Lloyd Leisure Centre has been built and has a lot of members. I could go on. Clearly, the club is enjoying a significant income from non-rugby activities that must be of great benefit. This simple example gives you and outline of what could and indeed should have happened at Sixfields. If supporters cannot see the bigger picture there is no hope and we will continue to be putty in the hands of our owners.
PS. Worcester RFC was recently sold to new owners and the local businessman who developed the ground walked away with a substantial sum of money.
Yes and we need to build a club that the large companies based in the region want to associate with.
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111
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The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?
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on: January 14, 2019, 16:42:44 pm
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Factoring in capacity, corporate facilities, general state of ground etc...but most importantly, being able to make money out of it...I reckon, worse than Sixfields:
League2:
Forest Green Stevenage Newport Crawley Cheltenham Morecambe Macclesfield
League1:
Accrington Fleetwood AFC Wimbledon
*Luton is an utter dump but capacity is over 10,000 and they also have numerous boxes. *Fleetwood is debatable given its excellent facilities, its just got a very small capacity. *Wimbledon are having a new ground built, as ar Forest Green. Luton are also making good progress in that regard.
So out of the 92, I reckon theres 10 grounds that are worse than ours.
Interestingly, none of those grounds are big towns/cities. Even with my claret tinted glasses off, we should be a considerably bigger club than any of those on my list, due to catchment area.
When we moved into Sixfields we had a very decent 4th division ground, but so many clubs have moved on since then and our ground is now incredibly worse than what it was when we moved in!
I find it incredible how anybody can even debate otherwise, its plain silly. It needs sorting and the current owners are not doing it. Despite promising to do so on their arrival.
Andy Holt is making great strides at Accrington including ground improvements. Their "matchday experience" now outstrips ours. Obviously Wimbledon have a new stadium on the way so that list is getting smaller.
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112
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The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Kelvin Thomas
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on: January 14, 2019, 09:51:07 am
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This needs to stop. If we have a fight on our hands, lets at least make it a clean fight. Nobody, including the Trust, is going to benefit from making allegations that cannot be substantiated. Anything that is used to fight with now, that is found to be untrue at a later stage, will absolutely blow the credibility of any party that is interested in taking over NTFC.
Nothing that I have heard so far, suggest that either KT or Bowers walked away with vast sums of money. Equally, there is no confirmation from anywhere demonstrating the extent of losses, if indeed there are any. I have heard all sort of figures, from many sources. Not one of them with an ounce of proof. I haven't spoke about any of these rumours at all. I will not, until I see something to corroborate these RUMOURS.
So let's get this straight. We know that we are getting rid of high earners. We know that we have seen very little, if any real progress under the current board. We know that we haven't had satisfactory answers to questions directed at KT. We know that more and more of the support are getting disillusioned. We know that the current regime has spent a disproportionate amount of time concentrating on land deals, rather than improving the squad or the infrastructure. I think there is plenty to deal with just using the FACTS as we know them.
Agree with the majority of that. The 5USports saga will be investigated (and it is being) but it's a side issue.
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113
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The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Kelvin Thomas
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on: January 14, 2019, 09:47:36 am
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The issue for Kelvin might not be the result of the poll on this thread but that it exists at all.
In a vacuum of information and press rigour then rumour nearly always fills the gap. 5USPORTS have not commented to date, maybe if they did the situation would be clarified. Unfortunately there are so many unanswered questions that when the club board plug one hole another bursts open.
So called libellous comments are by the by. Not all controversial comments are libellous, the only become so when the recipient decides they are defamatory and successfully sues in court. Kelvin Thomas suing a valued and passionate Cobblers fan would be the beginning of the end of his tenure.
The £6million fee is a side-issue, important but part of a bigger issue. We need to be looking at what the football club will look like when KT departs (as he will, like all other owners) as much as what is happening presently.
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116
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The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Kelvin Thomas
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on: January 13, 2019, 09:39:53 am
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It should never be the trust's role to deal with rumour. Rumours will whirl unfortunately in the absence of public information from the club and press scrutiny.
Transparency within the club and around it is something I'm keen to address.
A six million fee was referenced by the Mail at the time. If the club had issue with it they had the requisite channels to issue a retraction of the story.
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117
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The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Kelvin Thomas
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on: January 13, 2019, 08:16:59 am
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Spot on. Whilst I agree that there needs to be more substance behind Beds thoughts, as Melbourne says, it is at least worth exploring.
Let me insert a bit of calm here. Beds has plenty of good ideas which is a great thing, although to my knowledge he hasn't presented them anywhere else other than to Kelvin privately and on here. This messageboard is not representative of the success or otherwise of the various ownership models in existence around the country and beyond. In the next few days details of a professional, strategic discussion of the ownership and vision of the football club via the supporters' trust will be forthcoming. Obviously fans need to be treated with the requisite respect and furnished with the information to make educated appraisals of this situation. A lot of the infighting is unnecessary and there is no need to hound Kelvin Thomas. A lot of the issues at the club pre-date him. This should put Melbourne's and other minds at rest. Have a good weekend and enjoy the 3 points!
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120
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The Hotel End / Cobblers Corner / Re: Kelvin Thomas
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on: January 09, 2019, 15:55:13 pm
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Here's my take on things. The parent company of the firm I work for got into financial bother a while back. It was nothing to do with us but it affected our cash flow and we had to go out and get a large credit facility put into place to tide us over. We got one and continued to operate as normal, but the company that offered the facility did so at a premium. We had to take it because without it we'd have been in trouble.
The company we borrowed from has no affinity with us or our line of business, no loyalty to us and no long term interest in our success - they simply saw a business opportunity and took it. Maybe they were taking advantage to a degree but the truth is, we owe them our survival.
The same is true for KT and DB. They are football people, certainly but first and foremost they are businessmen. They aren't Cobblers fans and they have (I presume) no long term desire to stay at the club. They didn't leap in out of the goodness of their hearts. They saw an opportunity and took it. As much as it pains some people to admit, the bulk of that opportunity wasn't a L2 football team on the bones of its arse, it was the associated land that surrounds it.
At the time, I'm sure we'd all agree it was a mutually beneficial relationship - in the short term they bail us out, steady the ship and get the east stand usable again (which it is, even if it's ****) and in the medium term they turn a profit from developing the surrounding land and (ideally) finishing off the east stand before moving along.
The problem is, the medium term has turned out to be a lot longer than anyone anticipated and it's given some people time to think about it and start going "hang on a minute, he's not a Cobblers fan, he's just here to make money!" and have started to work themselves into a lather about it.
The truth is, when KT and DB bailed us out we were happy to take their hands off because it saved our club. Maybe it's just because I'm a cold hearted capitalist and not an idealist, but to me we owe them the chance to make their money back, just as my company will eventually have to pay off the expensive credit facility we were granted.
Some interesting points there but Not sure what line of work you are in but it sounds an awkward comparison. Making their money back sure in terms of personal infrastructural investment and basic business costs but that's about it. We don't know what other interested parties there were at the time. How are Kelvin Thomas and David Bower football people? Whatever that means anyway. The Council have stated that the the Bower/Thomas consortium indicated they had immediate funds to finish the East Stand on their takeover. There was no mention of profit from developing surrounding land (if that is the case). Whether they "saved" the club or it could have been righted by other parties or other means is again, open to argument. Finishing the East Stand will be no panacea anyway. The issues at the club are more wide ranging and more embedded. I would agree though that hounding KT out is not the answer. The club needs a vision with or without him.
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