Part of me feels like DA thinks this team is better than it is judging by some of his comments. We had the worst defence in the league last season and only Bury scored less than us. Hasselbaink’s tactics can’t be solely to blame for that. There was a clear lack of quality in the playing staff throughout the season. If DA doesn’t significantly add to this squad I can see us struggling again. I know it’s a lower division but the confidence around the squad can’t be that high, these players have just been relegated.

Don’t fall into the trap of thinking Austin’s public statements are what he’s also saying privately. That said he clearly identified a confidence issue when he stepped in, talking the players up is part of the process of turning that around. The way Jimmy set us up, always worried about the opposition was constantly hammering a message home to the players that he thought they weren’t good enough, it’s no wonder that settled into their subconscious. Austin seems to be taking the opposite approach.

Interested to know which players you genuinely feel can’t hold their own in league2?

As I said earlier in the thread I’m not about to tip us to win the league without decent additions but I really don’t see us struggling in the bottom half.

But as I said earlier that has been down to poor recruitment. I was personally only really excited by the signings of Perreira and Ariyibi in January because I thought we would start to see some width, pace and attacking intent. I was very wrong. They were bad signings in Jimmy's hands but if properly used may well have proved to be shrewd. Hindsight is easy, if Thomas had blocked the moves for two wingers who looked exciting signings plenty on here would have had something to say about it.

Again, I don't think we went down because we couldn't buy our way out we went down because the Manager got some shiny new toys to go along with all the other toys he had but he had no idea how to use them effectively.

We all agree we need a smaller squad and we need to find a way to recruit better. How we do that though I don't know, if you appoint a manager then you probably trust him to recruit well.

The problem is none of us really know do we. Like ohers have said it would be hard to get upset about any of them leaving given how bad last season. On the other I can't shake the nagging doubt that this group was completely misused and inhibited by two poor managers. There is a part of me that wants to see them right the wrongs and get us back up.

Look at League 1 last season, Wigan and especially Blackburn didn't make wholesale changes when they went down, just added a few and kept the nucleus together and went straight back up. I'm also sure plenty of you can give me examples of teams who didn't make changes after relegation and kept sinking.

Players mentioned as not good enough, like Kasim, Bowditch, Powell, Turnbull, van Veen and Foley, have all been regulars in teams who've done well in League 1, even played a decent  number in the championship as well in some cases. Crooks, Pierre, O'Toole have all been in League 2 team of the year. On top of that Buchs, Moloney, Hoskins all played a good number of games for the team that walked League 2 not long ago.

Possibly because I'm sick of wholesale changes every window but for some reason I really want to believe the talent is there. If used in the right way and with 3 or 4 decent additions (and a few departures) we could have a 'good' season.

Not sure if they were ever given pro contracts but ...

Greg Taylor did at Cambridge I think

And the late Richard Butcher  went to Diamonds whilst they were in the league, Lincoln and Macclesfield too.

Yep true but if you’re going back as far as Butcher then there are plenty more we could cite that were given plenty of first team chances. There will always be those we let slip but we don’t do too bad in general.

Let’s hope Austin is good on his word on creating the links between the first and youth teams.

Agree with a lot of what you have said and the lack of screening across the back four was also a real issue - I have however seen so many goals conceeded through basic lacking of marking etc

The issue will be for me too that from Facey, Crooks, O'Toole,  Taylor, Mcwilliams and O'donnell - how many of those will still be here come early august? - I would say we will do well to keep hold of 50% of those, I think its inevitable there will be movement on a greater scale than just 3 or 4 and I believe we need it.

You’re moving the goalposts now, you said we’d get relegated if all we did was add 3 or 4 to what we have. At best that’s hyperbole!

Of course if a number of our better players leave a hell of a lot will rest on how we replace them, as is the case for every club in the land.

If they’re good enough they’ll get chances McWilliams, Toney, Jacobs show that. Austin certainly seems keen to bring the youth through, I don’t think he’s the type to cut his nose of by ignoring a player that will help us. Time will tell.

We’ve not had many examples of players that were given contracts only to be never played and released that then became league players, Danny Green being the only one I can think of.

I don’t think anyone is pitching for a squad of 30. I think most would rather we’d took the budget from last year and spent it all on a squad of 23 but 2 different managers made a balls up of their recruitment.

I bet that's exactly what chesterfield fans were saying this time last year?!?!?

Let's look at the facts ...

That defence conceded 77 goals this year, (5 under austin in 2 games against relegated teams). Now yes the quality of strikers and supply will be less good in league 2. But some of the defending we were exposed to last year it dosent matter what level you are playing at if you simply don't pick up your men you will conced goals! This is my biggest concern.

That midfield created little and set pieces and set piece delivery at times was shocking.

Then up top we only scored 43 league goals (only bury were worse). This was partly down to the lack of supply and creativity. Of those goals, longs have gone.

I hope I'm wrong, but we do need wholesale changes to compete at the top simply because the majority of what we have are simply not good enough 7 or 8 aside.

I have no idea what Chesterfield fans were saying. Considering they’d just finished rock bottom, 13 points from safety I doubt they were too optimistic. Interesting that you think they’re our comparison point rather than Swindon who finished 3rd bottom like us.

Defence was definitely a problem but it’s simplistic at best to attribute that solely to the back 4. As a team we sat very deep and had pretty much 0 protection with Grimes being used as the deepest midfielder. Do you think the same back 4 in a more proactive team with 2 of Foley, Facey & McWilliams playing ahead of them would have conceded 77 goals, honestly?

The midfield wasn’t setup to create, it was all about stopping the opposition...badly, read Powell’s comments on the wide players roles under JFH & Austin.

Set pieces, well  Grimes has gone so we’ll have to see if there is a change there. Let’s see if Austin’s assistant brings anything to the table in that regard.

You’ve answered the lack of goals yourself.

As I said earlier I’m not about to say the players we have left are about to storm league 2 but I’d happily take a bet that we won’t go down next year if the only squad changes next year are 3 additions as you said. Understand the mood being low and there being a lack of optimism but you’ve blown things way out of proportion here imo

Edit: Just noticed your other post saying 12-14 aren’t good enough for league 2, can you enlighten me as to who these are and what that’s based on?

If we only add 2 or 3 to what we have I can honestly see us doing a chesterfield.

So you believe the below team, as an example and including 2 new signings to meet your quota would get relegated from League 2?

O'Donnell

Facey Taylor Pierre Buchanan

O'Toole McWilliams

Crooks New Signing Powell

New Signing

Subs:
Cornell
Moloney
Turnbull
Foley
Bridge
Waters
Hoskins

I mean I'm not about to say that will rip the league up and I acknowledge that fan's confidence is rightly at a low ebb after relegation but come on! There is enough there to stay up and thus overachieve on your prediction.

Hoping he stays. Also hoping he gets put back into the centre of midfield next season. Granted he has done a job further forward but he is still a goal threat playing from midfield and also dictates the pace of the game, something we have not done well this season (like most things).

Completely agree with this, I think JJOT and McWilliams will be a pretty formidable pairing in League 2. Foley provides decent cover as well.

Possibly right but I'd hardly say bury, Oldham or walsall are anything other than very average.

True but the ‘rules’ often don’t apply in those end of season games, especially the Oldham game. All leagues have crazy results in the last few games. Plus we’ll be a league lower next year, half the league will be weaker than those teams.


I’m staying optimistic  

You're not factoring in 3 of those 5 games were teams in and around the bottom

At the end of the season those games ain’t easy to win, ask Plymouth.

Whoever the management team is needs to make us a solid unit and stop us shipping goals left right and centre. So if it is DA then offering Contracts to the likes of Barnett and Maloney as part of a shambolic defence is very worrying.

I might have read things wrong but regarding Barnett I don’t think he’s been offered a contract as such.

My reading of it is that the club have an option for a second year on his contract but that second year comes with some clauses in Barnetts favour, probably play x games to trigger another year. The talks they are in are likely to be something like “we’d like to take up the option on your second year but we’d like you waive the clauses, oh and take a % pay cut”.

Half our squad is toilet, hence being where we are.

I can see it too if the issues of this year are not addressed. That's my main concern with deano he hasn't as yet in tge shirt time his been in charge with the players at his disposal address most of the issues.

It depends how you look at things doesn't it. If the players are as bad as you say then it is harsh to judge Austin for not sorting out the deficiencies in 5 games.

With my optimistic hat on I'd say the Blackpool game was the outlier of his reign, with the hang-ups from Jimmy's time in charge still at play. After that I think we definitely looked better defensively. Yes we conceded 2 at Bury but they were very much individual errors, I don't think the previous frailty was there, particularly through the middle. Plymouth and Walsall were two solid performances and Oldham was always going to a different game due to the situation they were in.

More than happy to admit that is a generous, optimistic assessment.

Regarding the players, I'm hoping Deepcut's view on the players is correct. If Austin can pull them together into a cohesive unit, which I believe he has shown signs of, then we could be a totally different proposition.

I know it was an awful season, not enjoyable at all but personally I'm going to enjoy the off season and try and look forward with some optimism, regardless of who is the manager, which players come and go. I've been miserable about football since August, that's long enough for me.

he won't.

he will leave.

I did say IF he stayed

I will have a good bet with you he won’t be .
Unless no one will pay his wages or cover the £125k we paid

Surely if he is as bad as we think he is no-one will do that so we're stuck with him? Maybe Jimmy will land a job and sign him.

I think Austin has got it, or at least the job will be his if they agree terms, budgets, targets etc. If he wasn't being offered it I think that may well have been announced.

Coddington couldn't even retain the jersey at Guisley, so I expect we'll be looking to ship him out.

Yet Wrexham fans are very keen to sign him on and they were pushing strongly for the play-offs when he was with them. Funny game!

I've got a sneaky suspicion if he stays and Austin is the manager he may well play the JJOT role from this season and JJ will move deeper to partner McWilliams.

Surely he can’t have made enough appearances to trigger a 2 year extension?

My guess is that he’s willing to take a decent pay cut

I would hope that DA (whoever) addresses the - 34?, that is sort out our leaky defense first.

Agree but I do feel part of our defensive problem has been that we were too passive, sat too deep and didn’t protect the back 4. If we’re more attacking, more proactive with a midfield 2 of McWilliams & JJOT or Foley we’ll see the defensive record improve.