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We would be a more profitable club in the Conference

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DrillingCobbler
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« on: November 23, 2010, 18:53:19 pm »

Without wanting to start a thread for the sake of it, this I believe is an important discussion point in light of all the doom and gloom that is surrounding NTFC at the moment.

I said on here 2 years ago that as the team slides down the leagues, it will be far easier to stabilise the club financially. Of course it was blown out the water by many people, however I have read on so many occasions in the last week comments attributed to relegation costing more money than a striker would cost to keep us up. It wouldn't.

Put it this way. IF we go down, the club would still attract 3000 odd (*probably) in a league where many clubs struggle to get half that. And money from sponsorship would also be considerably higher than many of our rivals. However, our wage budget/costs would come down accordingly, effectively saving more money than the amount of 'sales' we would lose.

I think quite a few people are confusing turnover with profit. Our turnover would go down BUT not as much as our costs would proportionately. We could be competitive with a 700grand budget at that level...many of the teams are local to us and would bring far bigger away crowds for starters than teams in league2.

With his business mind in place, DC is not going to be concerned with relegation. From a footballing point of view, of course he is...he's a fan these days as well and would not want us to go down. But the cold business facts are that NTFC could easily make a small profit in the conference whilst remaining competitive. That is impossible in league 2 and very difficult in league 1. Food for thought.
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DrillingCobbler
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« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2010, 19:04:16 pm »

Sorry, I meant impossible in league 1 and very difficult in league 2. T'other way round to what I stated.
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« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2010, 19:05:52 pm »

This thread makes me want to cry.
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« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2010, 19:08:22 pm »

In my opinion, It makes zero difference to DC what division we're in. From what I can tell there's never going to be a profit made from NTFC as a football club, but there could be one day if development is eventually allowed around Sixfields. He's a businessman, and if he can keep the club breaking-even year after year without putting his hand in his pocket I would imagine he'll be fairly satisfied, 'cos one day, he might just get some money back from a garden centre or a few flats. Whether Northampton Town are in the Conference or league 1 won't make any difference.
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« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2010, 19:09:29 pm »

Has it now come to this Huh?

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« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2010, 19:12:24 pm »

This is like the awakenings.............  Grin Grin Grin

lol. You must be loving it. Grin

hang on a sec though. If we're pointing the finger elsewhere, is this going to be considered a 'Sammo Love in'?
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« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2010, 19:21:04 pm »

It's why we need putting up for sale, try and get somebody in with ideas, money, drive and ambition.
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« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2010, 21:18:29 pm »

This isn't what I wanted to read tonight and it too has made me want to cry. I want to be in the Championship. F*** leagues 1 and 2 and definitely f*** the Conference! Oops, wrong thread!
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« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2010, 22:22:07 pm »

It's why we need putting up for sale, try and get somebody in with ideas, money, drive and ambition.

Do you seriously believe that there is

a) a plethora of million/billionaires out there hunting for failing Div IV sides? And...
b) that we offer anything approaching an attractive proposition to anybody apart from as a vehicle for their ego?

I'm not having a pop, I'm not taking the piss - I simply genuinely believe that the club with our fanbase will never be attractive to the kind of person you seem to want.
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« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2010, 23:09:44 pm »

No harm in looking for one. Certainly better than being somebodys beer change to play a fruit machine as we are now
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« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2010, 23:39:50 pm »

I doubt our gates would hold up even to a 3,000 level - the drop in footballing standard is huge and a lot of current spectators would give up on us. Just compare league 2 with the better stuff we were getting in league 1.
We'd lose all our youth funding, ( £180,000 p.a? ) and we'd be even further away from anyone ever buying the club from the Cardozas. The outstanding parked debt would never be serviced.
It is true that any retail or housing development could put some money back into developing the stadium so it can produce more money to service the club, but I'm not sure it'd be a simple matter for the Cardozas - or anyone else for that matter - to turn that money into cash in their back pockets.
For a town this size the only realistic ambition which would begin to balance out all the equations is having a pop at Championship level, where gate size and money would be the big kicking-off point for expansion. That level of football would of course cost a lot more to stage, but it still has the most potential for earning money above its running cost.
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« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2010, 05:18:57 am »

Eureka..................

Absolutely spot on mate..
Absolute rubbish.
 Television money lost straight away. Our biggest earner this season? League Cup - surprisingly only open to clubs IN the league.With a qualifying round in the FA Cup less chance of progressing there too. Of course gates would drop off, you are looking at Luton, Ketteing, Cambridge and Rubbish and Dustbins, but then what? Forest Green, Fleetwood, Barrow, even "big" clubs like Darlo and York are hardly going to fill our away end!  The Conference is a trap door that is so difficult to escape from. A friend of mine is a Wrexham fan, I always think of them as a fairly big club in the lower leagues, but they have struggled to keep in the top half, let alone challenge the leaders. He is as dis-illusioned as me with football Wrexham have stayed full time , so footballers want similar wages to league players when in the conference, end result = £17 admission fee at the Racecourse to watch Barrow and Eastbourne and Gateshead.
 Where are Halifax now? Gone without trace almost, there is another trap door a below the Conference where FOUR clubs are relegated. Off to a bad start and you are pretty soon right in it!
 I don't believe that the Cardoza's will be ok with Conference level and to post such a comment is in my opinion quite ill informed and insulting.
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« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2010, 06:32:29 am »

Absolute rubbish.
 Television money lost straight away. Our biggest earner this season? League Cup - surprisingly only open to clubs IN the league.With a qualifying round in the FA Cup less chance of progressing there too. Of course gates would drop off, you are looking at Luton, Ketteing, Cambridge and Rubbish and Dustbins, but then what? Forest Green, Fleetwood, Barrow, even "big" clubs like Darlo and York are hardly going to fill our away end!  The Conference is a trap door that is so difficult to escape from. A friend of mine is a Wrexham fan, I always think of them as a fairly big club in the lower leagues, but they have struggled to keep in the top half, let alone challenge the leaders. He is as dis-illusioned as me with football Wrexham have stayed full time , so footballers want similar wages to league players when in the conference, end result = £17 admission fee at the Racecourse to watch Barrow and Eastbourne and Gateshead.
 Where are Halifax now? Gone without trace almost, there is another trap door a below the Conference where FOUR clubs are relegated. Off to a bad start and you are pretty soon right in it!
 I don't believe that the Cardoza's will be ok with Conference level and to post such a comment is in my opinion quite illinformed and insulting.

Can counter most of this...

Firstly the FA Trophy, with a huge opportunity to get to Wembley. This year is the first in many where we have made money from the league cup. There are also considerably more televised games at that level than in league 2. Albeit at a lower pay back, but even so. We never get on the tv these days!

As for gates holding up/not holding up....most teams that have fallen down there have sustained decent support and therefore income from the turnstyles. Kettering and Diamonds don't lose money/very little money and they are both competitive with support of around 1000 - 1300 level. How do they manage to do this? If we were similar we would be getting at least double their attendances and more commercial money as well, with a similar wage budget/costs.

You are right that it is a trap door and difficult to escape from, at least via the top end of it. But thats not the debate. The debate is purely from a financial one. Lower costs versus lower sales - turnover would decrease but as I say 'profit' wouldn't.

Also, I don't think anybody has said DC would be 'ok' with it from a footballing point of view. I certainly didn't. But from a business point of view, why would he be bothered? He could just cut the costs accordingly and continue operating at a level just above break even. And it would be easier to achieve that in the BSP than it would in league2. And with our infrastructure, its virtually impossible to remain solvent in league 1. History proves that, everytime we get there we lose a shed load of money 'trying' to field a decent team to compete.

Football clubs in the lower leagues only perform well with a chairman that is prepared to throw money at it. Of course there is the exception to the rule, but those clubs soon find - at great cost - problems further down the line and come tumbling back down to where they have come from. There are not many Blackpool's and Sc***horpes lording it up at the top tables in the English game.

DC has two choices IF he is insistent on not losing any more money. The first one is to cut the costs to the level of income coming in (conservative estimates pre-season) - which he is doing. The second one is to gamble, speculate to accumulate. Which is clearly in his mind something that he has already tried and failed with. So we are left in a situation that no risks will be made in order to 'chase the dream'. Can we be successful on the field with that strategy? I don't think we can long term. We are currently 22nd in league2. If he was to replace Sammo and Crosby with a new management team, fund them to bring their own players in etc to avoid the drop - the cost would be at least 200k plus overall of extra costs to be found between now and the end of the season. Even if it guaranteed to keep us up, we would still post a net loss come the end of the financial year. Thats his choice, which is why I don't believe he's making it. Im sorry but from a footballing point of view we would not have the current guys in charge anymore, cost aside. You may think differently though. Im not anti DC, I just don't think he has any more to offer the club in the short - medium term. There may not be a buyer out there but we don't know do we? And as we all know, there is absolutely no incentive for DC to sell the club because he wont get a penny back from it. That is the big dilemma we are facing.
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« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2010, 06:47:58 am »

Nonsense Drilling.  Relegation to the Conference would be a disaster in financial and footballing terms.  I doubt very much that DC would hang around to be "lynched" by the long suffering supporters and a club in such decline would more than likely continue to struggle on the pitch.  The problem we face at the moment is that under the current ownerhip the sole policy is one of breaking even which translated means that the Cardozas are not prepared to invest anymore of their funds in the club.  We have to live on what we earn. Fair enough perhaps in economic terms but the hard core of home support is reducing by the year so there is less and less income and there is no sign of a long term upward turn in our fortunes on or off the pitch.  The redevelopment is on the back burner for the foreseeable future.  A town with a popultation of 200,000 and a large catchment area should be playing at a higher level but I cannot see this happening under the current ownership which has kept us afloat but has no visible strategy for taking us forward.
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« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2010, 08:38:38 am »

"I doubt very much that DC would hang around to be "lynched" by the long suffering supporters"

He should have been so by now.....we didnt stand for this s*** when Underwood, McRitchie and Stonhill were in charge!!

We wont go down, we're too good to go down, everythings in place to go straight back up, blah blah blah!!!
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« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2010, 08:49:43 am »

I for one will never accept relegation as inevitable.And to suggest so just shows how far we have actually fallen.

I will never give up my support.

I will never stop believing until its over.

I simply will not except defeat in any way shape or form.

This is the football club that i f***ing love and i will not give up hope.

And no i haven`t missed the point of the thread,relegation is not an option.

f*** the Posh  Cobblers Till I Die
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« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2010, 09:01:24 am »

We will not be relegated.
Sammo will remain as Manager.
DC will remain as Chairman.
We will be pushing the play-offs, at least, by the end of the season.
Maybe not the season long targets we were looking at on the 6th Aug this year but.....in light of the current situation......

My Claret tinted spectacles and blind optimism are great attributes in my own distant little world.... Cool
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« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2010, 10:47:30 am »

"I doubt very much that DC would hang around to be "lynched" by the long suffering supporters"

He should have been so by now.....we didnt stand for this s*** when Underwood, McRitchie and Stonhill were in charge!!

We wont go down, we're too good to go down, everythings in place to go straight back up, blah blah blah!!!
That's because he 's done things cleverly. Convinced the fanbase he was Our Saviour and so cannot be blasphemed and then passed the blame of every problem in the past and present to the council who are probably still sitting there thinking "Hang on, you had an £8m stadium off us just 16yrs ago and now you want MORE?"
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« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2010, 10:57:43 am »

Someone give Richard Branson a bell, Virgin haven't got involved in Football yet...NTFC is the perfect opportunity to get the Virgin brand out to the masses  Wink
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« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2010, 11:15:47 am »

That's because he 's done things cleverly. Convinced the fanbase he was Our Saviour and so cannot be blasphemed and then passed the blame of every problem in the past and present to the council who are probably still sitting there thinking "Hang on, you had an £8m stadium off us just 16yrs ago and now you want MORE?"

He never convinced all the fanbase!!  Wink
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