Pragmatism and Patience: We are in Transition

[John]

One season we were collecting money in buckets, the next we were waving £20 notes at opposing supporters. It wasn't a gradual thing.

You're right about managing expectation. Promise nothing, pretend things are much worse than they are and then whatever the outcome people aren't disappointed.

[AidyMannsDog]

It's all Cardoza's fault. For years we just bumped along the bottom, no money, no hope, no ambition, no concern for the future. A good season would be when we win more than we lose and not get drawn into a relegation fight. Then up pops our Chairman with his millions, tell us we have a 5 year plan to get into the Championship and suddenly we're all filled with hope, aspiration and a general sense of well being. Now scraping along the bottom is no longer good enough, we expect, no demand to be involved at the top end of the table and if we're not, woe betide the man responsible.

Things would have been so much better if Cardoza had never rolled up in the first place. We'd be happily collecting money in buckets again and if we were still in the football league, we'd be content enough with that.

Tongue in cheek yes, but are you really saying we should have no aspirations or expectations? Isn't that fundamental to going to watch football?

Scraping along the bottom was fine with re-election but not now, do you want to be one result from non-league year after year? Come on John be honest you didn't really enjoy the Carr era did you, it must have made you very uncomfortable being so far away from the bottom!

As to DC, if you don't mean it keep your gob shut, but he keeps opening it and making shit up. Nobody forced him to make such statements as aiming for the Championship, or building a stadium etc etc etc?

We may have had a tax bill looming under Stonhill but it wasn't that bad at least we weren't constantly being misled and Barry had true intentions for the club.

If Daddy removed the silver spoon I doubt DC could manage a creche.

[John]

If you aspire to those things reachable and expect those things you know are coming then you wont be disappointed.

When I was a youngster I used to dream of one day being European Champions. I'm older and wiser now, we are what we are and ever will be thus. All clubs supporters aspire and all clubs supporters have expectations. We can't all succeed. (Well maybe budgies)

[AidyMannsDog]

If you aspire to those things reachable and expect those things you know are coming then you wont be disappointed.

When I was a youngster I used to dream of one day being European Champions. I'm older and wiser now, we are what we are and ever will be thus. All clubs supporters aspire and all clubs supporters have expectations. We can't all succeed. (Well maybe budgies)

  Ok Polly, get what your saying but I don't think any of us who have supported the club for 20-30 years or more do have expectations! Staying in the league is about it.

I also played for the Cobblers in division one (when playing football at school!)

Last point on DC, if you are at the top of any business whatever happens is your fault and it's your responsibility. Not the manager nor the tea lady because you choose them. DC has no excuses with the stadium, no chance or luck like football, just deliver (again what he promised) the best possible for the club with 12 million.

[everbrite]

Last point on DC, if you are at the top of any business whatever happens is your fault and it's your responsibility. Not the manager nor the tea lady because you choose them. DC has no excuses with the stadium, no chance or luck like football, just deliver (again what he promised) the best possible for the club with 12 million.

I think that's over simplifying things to make your point. Most MD's have sidekicks to manage things on their behalf(or in better terms a management tree structure). It is not unusual to see an MD survive whilst the subordinate Managers get the boot. As a matter of course MD's have to aspire to great things and hope that their Manager(s)make things happen. You mention the tea lady as an example   - I would be surprised if DC supervised the appointment of minor ancillary staff; surely that would be the Office Manager?

[bungle]

I just don't buy into this 'got to get out of sacking managers because it doesn't get us anywhere' malarkey. If we hadn't of changed managers so often recently we'd most likely be non league

I have great respect for you Drilling, but on this we disagree.

1. Sacking managers is often a necessary evil. I agree 100% with that and was right behind the campaigns for AB, GJ and Sammo to go. The problem comes when you have a managerial change virtually every season for a four-five year period.

2. Despite more than competitive budgets, this club has been in relegation scraps for four out of the last five years. A big factor in that is that frequent changes in manager = massive upheaval of playing staff. GJ came in and go rid of all Sammo's deadwood (including not-so-deadwood like Billy Mckay), then AB got rid of GJ's expensively-assembled deadwood (Robinson, Turnbull, Webster, then later Bayo etc) and now CW is plotting how to get rid of the likes of Duke, Carter, Ravenhill, etc. This is clearly not a sustainable business model and has led to chronic short termism, underachievement and instability.

3. Five out of the current top seven have had longer-serving managers than us. A sixth team, Burton, have kept a strong sense of continuity after losing their successful long-serving manager, Gary Rowett. Perhaps we're just twisting the same statistics to make different arguments, but I'd say that the evidence overwhelmingly supports the value of continuity.


As I've suggested before: the problem lies with the spine of the team. Wilder started the season thinking that Duke, Carter and Ravenhill were good enough; then he changed his mind and realised that they were past it. A few weeks ago, I was right with you disagreeing with him and lambasting the endless loanees brought in to replace them; now I'm not so sure. Ravenhill can't pass; Carter lacks energy; Duke is old and not really much better than Archer. It's telling that all three were surplus to requirements at other League Two clubs.  They did a job for us in the end last year, but they are not suitable as the spine of a team looking to kick on. To compound the problem, we've barely had the chance to name the same central defensive partnership in two consecutive games.

Wilder's made loads of infuriating mistakes, but my point is that the rebuilding process is a longer-term process than any of us first expected. A mid-table finish would be far from disastrous this season and we should only be looking to make a managerial change a. if we find ourselves in genuine relegation trouble or b. if we find ourselves in this position this time next season.



  

[AidyMannsDog]

I think that's over simplifying things to make your point. Most MD's have sidekicks to manage things on their behalf(or in better terms a management tree structure). It is not unusual to see an MD survive whilst the subordinate Managers get the boot. As a matter of course MD's have to aspire to great things and hope that their Manager(s)make things happen. You mention the tea lady as an example   - I would be surprised if DC supervised the appointment of minor ancillary staff; surely that would be the Office Manager?

Technically of course your right evers, but ultimately the responsibility of any business, it's success and failure and at any level of it falls to the MD. Full stop.

It also depends on the size of the business and NTFC isn't BP. If you have the desire and your interested enough you can ensure every level of a club/business is performing to it's maximum potential and yes that includes the tea lady. It's having that desire to make a club/business above the ordinary.

Alex Ferguson would often go and have tea with the kit ladies, sometimes he stayed till late after a game. He established a team spirit from top to bottom by putting the effort in and that feeling spreads. You get what you put in and it's not always to do with money.

[Ralap]

To me it's as much about stability of a club and a long term footballing strategy than it is on who is the manager.

I'm guessing here but I reckon I would be about right in thinking that the target for every manager we have had in the last 5 seasons would be play offs with an outside chance of automatic promotion.  Now on paper that sounds great but what is the reality of trying to achieve that in your first full season in charge.  You are immediately putting yourself in a position that will lead you to make short term decisions chasing success rather than planning for the long term.  You have a manager who is simply trying to put a promotion on his CV with no care about what happens to the club after that.  There is no planning on what you will do when you actually get promoted.

For instance even when Boothroyd got us to the play offs what really would have happened if we had somehow fluked our way in to the 1st division.  There was no plan or foundation for the future.  The team wasn't one that would have been capable of competing in that league and we would probably have thrown money at trying to stay up signing on knackered old pros or loan players.

Swansea have been shown as an example of success despite not always having a stable manager.  They have achieved this because things got so bad they couldn't have got much worse.  They came up with a footballing strategy, partly through luck as much as judgement, and decided to play their football a certain way that would transfer throughout the club at all levels.  To do this they had to be brave as it isn't a quick fix solution and comes with the likelehood that things will get worse before they get better.  When they employ new managers it's not been just about getting the best manager available it's also about getting someone in that agrees with their ethos and can hopefully add something new to it.

At a slightly lower level Brentford are doing a similar thing.  At the very top level Barcelona did the same.  That way when a manager does leave you are not replacing a whole structure and core base of players.  Of course it's also probably easier for a manager to take over a successful team than relegation fodder.  It also doesn't mean everyone has to try and play the same type of football and there are clearly many ways to play the game but it's about having a long term strategy with realistic goals along the way that you will stick to even when things don't always go to plan.  It's also about open and adapting to change along the way learning from mistakes.  I wonder how many mistakes the Cobblers have learnt from over the last ten years?  

Back to the Cobblers.  I don't think we could have done much worse than we have over the last 5 years if we had taken this approach.  The constant use of loan players is such short term thinking based on a desperate chase for success.  We've offered 3 year contracts to players not to build for the future but to get them in the door.  We've turned over complete squads every season.

I have my doubts about Wilder for several reasons however much of what he's doing strikes me as someone who has desperately chasing a promised promotion push as opposed to laying down a long term strategy.  Now that might not be his fault entirely as let's face it if you are under pressure to meet short term targets you start making desperate decisions.  A prime example again is the seeming urgency to try and sell our prize asset rather than play the long game.

The stupidity as well is that actually we've got a pretty good set of supporters that would probably be ok with things if they could see what we were trying to do and what the long term plan was.

When you see a manager playing four central midfielders or chopping and changing the side/formation every week or slating the players/making excuses publicly you just know there isn't a long term plan.  I look at our current squad and we've got more than enough quality to comfortably be mid table with no risk of relegation.  So what better time than now to try and instill a long term plan that might take a couple of seasons to come to fruition but ultimately would pay off and supported by the eventual redevelopment lead us to actually having some sustained success.  

Always a pleasure to read your well thought out and presented posts Hammer. I do wish you would contribute more regularly as you used to do.

During the period of the last two appointments I've suggested a complete change in the sort of manager we aim to appoint and the set up of the club from a boom and bust outfit to one with a long term plan of instilling a style and type of football throughout the club from kids to first team that doesn't constantly rely on a hoofed ball when under the slightest pressure which seems to be the whole 90 mins at the moment. It would be great to see all management at the club working from the same page to keep a fluency of style of football played from youth through to the first team with new buys being brought in as players seen able to fit in to that style of play hopefully with ease.
The only trouble with change is the time needed for a new approach to settle in which in our current position could mean relegation to the conference. Some of the so called big boys on here saw this as totally unacceptable and wrote the suggestion off with distain. It's still early days and as much as I think Wilder has to be given time we do seem to be seeing some signs of going down the same path of the last two managers.
Whatever league Northampton are in I will follow them and if it meant a stint down there to come back stronger with a long term plan to play a decent and attractive style of play then I can handle that. Ideally we could achieve it and still keep our league status but people would have to be a lot more patient than they seem right now.
Having said all that and with no where near the eloquence you manage Hammer I can only see us not learning anything and continue with the boom and bust in one manner or another.

I would absolutely love to see a whole new change of thinking and planning at the club giving us a greater stability into the future. I won't hold my breath though.

[guest168]

MARVO, we were not along the bottom when DC came along, we were 16th? in Div One so hardly on our knees, yes there was a tax bill to be paid

Big difference is that previous owners  (except perhaps McRichie) generally had the club, it's staff and it's fans at heart. It's owners didnt promise to be in the Championship, didnt shout how great they were and how they save the club nor that they always deliver and knew best.

None of them encumbered the club with a 7 million pound debt or looking like they have wasted millions more on much heralded development

 

[John]

MARVO, we were not along the bottom when DC came along, we were 16th? in Div One so hardly on our knees, yes there was a tax bill to be paid

Big difference is that previous owners  (except perhaps McRichie) generally had the club, it's staff and it's fans at heart. It's owners didnt promise to be in the Championship, didnt shout how great they were and how they save the club nor that they always deliver and knew best.

None of them encumbered the club with a 7 million pound debt or looking like they have wasted millions more on much heralded development

 

In fairness, we live in a different world, when I was a boy you'd hear nothing from the club and you'd be one of a  select few if you could even recognise the chairman. They kept themselves pretty much apart from the dross that actually followed the club. I remember they used to cancel the supporters bus at the drop of a hat if they hadn't enough on it to make a profit. I think you could say we were tolerated more than courted.
Derek Banks was the first Chairman I remember who actually sought contact with the fans.

As for where we were Random, we were where we have always been, just at that point in time we'd had one of our random forays into the next flight up thanks to Kevin Wilson (though some claim Kevan Broadhurst) before boomeranging back to our accustomed station in life. This still happens from time to time and I guess it will happen again some time in the future, every club has it's day when things just happen to fall into place.

[John]

As a follow on from my previous post, can I say I fully expect us to leave this division in the near future, though which way is anybodies guess.

I'll tell you why because that's the nature of things, teams go up and down and te law of averages says it will be our turn soon.

Here's a question for you.  How many teams have resided longer in the bottom division than we have?

Have a guess and then you can scroll down for the answer



















Two. Accrington in their 9th season and Morecambe in their eighth. We're in our sixth. (same as Burton and Cheltenham)

[bri77]

I expect us to be challenging to yoyo between league one and two but I dream of being able to challenge to do that between league one and the championship.
 
I wouldn't consider that to be 'unreachable'. If that means a boring transitional period to try and implement something more long term than we have had then fine, but there has to be some signs that there is a plan and it's not just going to be a complete overhaul in January with another load of pointless loanees brought in when we don't improve, then the cycle to be continued again and again.

[everbrite]

I expect us to be challenging to yoyo between league one and two but I dream of being able to challenge to do that between league one and the championship.
 
I wouldn't consider that to be 'unreachable'. If that means a boring transitional period to try and implement something more long term than we have had then fine, but there has to be some signs that there is a plan and it's not just going to be a complete overhaul in January with another load of pointless loanees brought in when we don't improve, then the cycle to be continued again and again.

I would have thought now that the plan would be to stabilise selection and performances. Only when we are deemed safe for another year can a plan become effective.

[bri77]

The most frustrating thing was over the summer it looked like we were formulating some form of plan, stability, progress etc and then the last two months everything has just gone horribly wrong again. Meaning it will all become short term gain driven.

[MCHammer]

Always a pleasure to read your well thought out and presented posts Hammer. I do wish you would contribute more regularly as you used to do.

Thanks for saying that much appreciated.  Still read nearly every day but for various reasons don't always have the inclination or time to join in.

In fairness to the club there are positives going on in the youth setup.  From what I've seen the coaching is aimed strongly at playing the right way i.e. players experienced in all positions and the focus on getting the ball down and playing/retaining possession.  Results are secondary over development which is as it should be at that level.  However my impression is that this is driven more by the FA coaching improvements in this area not really from a top down approach from the first team management.

I read an article some months ago about Roberto Martinez at Everton, who I rate very highly.  He said that he manages a club as if he's going to be there for the next 100 years.  Now when you think about it that's a very risky approach from his perspective but when you see the structure he has put in place at Everton and the plans he has for the future it stretches far beyond just the first team and next Saturdays result.  There is a real focus on retaining the best young players unless a stupid offer comes in.  The coaching they provide is so far detached from the old school public slating our current management feel is right.  Before anyone says "but that's premier league" there are clubs doing this at lower levels like Brentford, Rochdale, Mk Dons to some extent and a few others I'm aware of.

I genuinely believe that with the budget that DC provides each year and his willingness to let managers manage we are a perfect setup to achieve this kind of thing.  It just needs the right person in place at the top and I worry that Wilder isn't that type of manager.  We are just heading back into firefighting territory again.     

[Iest_ntfc]

Looks like CW has finally realised thing off the pitch need sorting, let's hope DC takes note and gets things sorted

http://www.northampton-news-hp.co.uk/Northampton-Town-lot-things-need-doing-football/story-25727760-detail/story.html#ixzz3M9n3vuY0

[guest49]

It must be one of the only businesses that can consistently fail and yet the man at the top is left relatively unscathed.
A CEO at an under performing blue chip company would be long gone. "Well I paid my managers really well and gave them fantasic resources, it wasn't me."

It's a funny old game.

[guest49]

Looks like CW has finally realised thing off the pitch need sorting, let's hope DC takes note and gets things sorted

http://www.northampton-news-hp.co.uk/Northampton-Town-lot-things-need-doing-football/story-25727760-detail/story.html#ixzz3M9n3vuY0

Filed under 'Excuses by another under performing manager.'

That sits within the need to change the culture and structure, so interesting to read it alluded to from the horses mouth. Just before the horse gets shot.

[TbananaG]

Looks like CW has finally realised thing off the pitch need sorting, let's hope DC takes note and gets things sorted

http://www.northampton-news-hp.co.uk/Northampton-Town-lot-things-need-doing-football/story-25727760-detail/story.html#ixzz3M9n3vuY0

Hmmm....I'm not sure it ever ends well when you start trying to pass the buck upwards in an organisation.

[A view from the east]

Hmmm....I'm not sure it ever ends well when you start trying to pass the buck upwards in an organisation.

Just watched the whole interview on Player, he sounds like a broken man.
Very downbeat and that is worrying.