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The Tipping Point

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John
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« on: December 29, 2014, 08:41:31 am »

Just been looking through the records to see where the tipping point is when it comes to Cardoza sacking managers.

In the last 12 league games played under these managers before being sacked, the points gained were:

Stuart Gray 14
Ian Sampson 16
Aidy Boothroyd 13
Gary Johnson 12

Chris Wilder has 6. I reckon he's done pretty well to still be here now!
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« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2014, 09:02:41 am »

Interesting stat, and I'm also quite surprised by considering how bad we were under Johnson and Boothroyd.

I wonder whether Cardoza looks back and regrets how quickly he made those decisions. I don't think we would have ever got relegated from this division under Gray or Sampson. It was going to happen under Johnson and Boothroyd. Without some decent signings in January, it's looking very bad for Wilder.

Although, over the past few years how many players have Cobblers use compared to other clubs? Must be loads
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« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2014, 09:05:08 am »

Just been looking through the records to see where the tipping point is when it comes to Cardoza sacking managers.

In the last 12 league games played under these managers before being sacked, the points gained were:

Stuart Gray 14
Ian Sampson 16
Aidy Boothroyd 13
Gary Johnson 12

Chris Wilder has 6. I reckon he's done pretty well to still be here now!

Interesting stats which would also tend to back up factually why a lot of people fely Sammo's sacking was premature.
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« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2014, 09:11:44 am »

I made the point a few weeks ago that Tranmere should be the tipping point. Interesting that a lot of people who disagreed and defended his names in a hat selection policy have now gone full circle. I admit to being very reactionary but as far as Wilder is concerned I haven't been. It's as clear as day that if we stick with him for much longer we will drop into the bottom 2 and stay there until he's eventually fired.

Why should we make the job harder for the next man? Let him tweak the squad in January whilst there's half a season to play and we will comfortably avoid the drop...
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« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2014, 09:13:55 am »

Interesting stats which would also tend to back up factually why a lot of people fely Sammo's sacking was premature.

Absolutely.
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« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2014, 09:19:28 am »

I'm not going to lie, I supported the decision to sack Sammo based on my belief that we had the budget to be a promotion outfit, not one languishing in midtable and when all said and done, 16 points from 12 games is hardly something to be proud of?

However, and putting on my Mr Hindsight hat, after what has happened since it does look now like the wrong decision.

I suppose salt in the wound would be if Sammo had gone on to forge a career elsewhere proving beyond doubt that I (and a lot others) were wrong but strangely of all our former managers he is the only one to have faded into obscurity.
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« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2014, 09:28:45 am »

The tipping point for me was when DC pulled the budget in league one. Since then the club has just ticked over until it ends up a non league outfit. Until he goes it doesn't matter who is in charge.
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« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2014, 09:28:53 am »

I'm not going to lie, I supported the decision to sack Sammo based on my belief that we had the budget to be a promotion outfit, not one languishing in midtable and when all said and done, 16 points from 12 games is hardly something to be proud of?

However, and putting on my Mr Hindsight hat, after what has happened since it does look now like the wrong decision.

I suppose salt in the wound would be if Sammo had gone on to forge a career elsewhere proving beyond doubt that I (and a lot others) were wrong but strangely of all our former managers he is the only one to have faded into obscurity.

Yep, me too!
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« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2014, 09:37:18 am »

Yep, me too!

That Hindsight Hat - oh to own one!
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« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2014, 09:55:44 am »

The tipping point for me was when DC pulled the budget in league one. Since then the club has just ticked over until it ends up a non league outfit. Until he goes it doesn't matter who is in charge.

I just don't get this point TC - and whilst I agree the manner in which the club has been run by DC leaves an awful lot to be desired -  but is he really that negatively powerful that he makes CW sign poor players on long contracts, signs multiple poor loan players, consistently play players out of position, never knowshis best side, make repeated demotivating public statements, employ sports science and training techniques that would seem statistically so unlucky as to suggest they are wrong but not change them, etc etc etc

I don't disagree that for the club to be successful a root and branch change will be necessary but short term we are looking simply at avoiding the relegation nightmare (again).
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« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2014, 10:03:49 am »

Just been looking through the records to see where the tipping point is when it comes to Cardoza sacking managers.

In the last 12 league games played under these managers before being sacked, the points gained were:

Stuart Gray 14
Ian Sampson 16
Aidy Boothroyd 13
Gary Johnson 12

Chris Wilder has 6. I reckon he's done pretty well to still be here now!

I always wanted Sammo to stay. Used yo see him regularly as his son was a friend of my kids. He also lives across the road from me. Not once has he ever mentioned anything or showed any bitterness. He had my utmost respect.
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« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2014, 10:13:07 am »

Although it all comes down to the manager, there is more to it than that. Why has no manager built a team ? Why this constant stream of loan players. Thats not just CW but nearly all the managers. It starts to look like these managers are trying to do a job with one hand tied behind their back. There is no building for the future any where in the club. It's just rotting away from top to bottom.
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« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2014, 10:14:20 am »

I'm not going to lie, I supported the decision to sack Sammo based on my belief that we had the budget to be a promotion outfit, not one languishing in midtable and when all said and done, 16 points from 12 games is hardly something to be proud of?

However, and putting on my Mr Hindsight hat, after what has happened since it does look now like the wrong decision.

I suppose salt in the wound would be if Sammo had gone on to forge a career elsewhere proving beyond doubt that I (and a lot others) were wrong but strangely of all our former managers he is the only one to have faded into obscurity.
After completely screwing up at Corby!
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« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2014, 10:24:40 am »

I'm not going to lie, I supported the decision to sack Sammo based on my belief that we had the budget to be a promotion outfit, not one languishing in midtable and when all said and done, 16 points from 12 games is hardly something to be proud of?

However, and putting on my Mr Hindsight hat, after what has happened since it does look now like the wrong decision.

I suppose salt in the wound would be if Sammo had gone on to forge a career elsewhere proving beyond doubt that I (and a lot others) were wrong but strangely of all our former managers he is the only one to have faded into obscurity.

I also fully supported Sammo's sacking based on my feeling at the time that he simply wasn't a good manager.

However, with the lovely 20-20 vision hindsight gives you, you might have to say that he did pretty well with a limited budget (certainly lower than CW currently enjoys) and kept the club on an even keel at a time when the redevelopment etc was a million miles further away than it is now.

Perhaps if he'd been given another 18 months, he'd have developed into a much better manager. Something we'll never know I guess.
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« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2014, 10:24:48 am »

Just been looking through the records to see where the tipping point is when it comes to Cardoza sacking managers.

In the last 12 league games played under these managers before being sacked, the points gained were:

Stuart Gray 14
Ian Sampson 16
Aidy Boothroyd 13
Gary Johnson 12

Chris Wilder has 6. I reckon he's done pretty well to still be here now!
Amazing stat. You really have to think if we lose against Southend most will want him gone. DC not so sure, it be will a sizeable payoff!
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« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2014, 10:53:20 am »

The others were older and had done stuff elsewhere before the poisoned chalice to get jobs elsewhere afterwards.

I disagreed with Samos sacking at the time. It was the last time I really enjoyed watching them play, even when they were struggling at least they tried to play a bit. And there seemed to be early signs of a bit of a longer term plan. Rather than the shambles it's been since. Also because it was Sampson, like everybody else, desperately wanted him to do well.

However, the Corby example is a good counter argument. But even if he'd eventually failed like everyone else does, it would have been good to have seen him given a proper go at it (more time and resources like the others)

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« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2014, 10:58:29 am »

What assisted Sammo was his clever choice of an assistant manager. His subsequent efforts at Corby, when he brought in several ex Cobblers, was very disappointing. He would be a very major risk and I simply cannot see the club going down that route.
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« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2014, 11:01:17 am »

What assisted Sammo was his clever choice of an assistant manager. His subsequent efforts at Corby, when he brought in several ex Cobblers, was very disappointing. He would be a very major risk and I simply cannot see the club going down that route.

Agreed on this analysis
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« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2014, 11:04:40 am »

Sammo's problem that he was struggling for victories at a time when Johnson became suddenly available who, at the time, was a lower league manager that could not be turned down/ignored. I think the majority were more than happy with his appointment at the time, none of us would have predicted the eventual outcome. I for one was looking no where near downwards only upwards and looking forward to seeing him do his stuff with us when we managed to appoint him.
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« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2014, 11:12:31 am »

Yes I was definitely in this camp. A mate of mine is a big Bristol City fan and I remember being out with a beer with him at the time, 'you'll be in the championship in 3 or 4 years', I believed him and it was the most excited I've ever been as a Cobblers fan.
How wrong were we...
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