Welcome Martin Foyle

[Ralap]

I really hope this is not the case. For me, the youth set up has been one of the few unequivocally bright spots in the Cardoza era. Chambers, Bunn, Johnson, Jacobs and Toney have all come through in the last ten years and we've also made money from many youngsters who were poached before they even reached the first team. Sceptics should compare this record to the early Sixfields days when we produced absolutely nothing, even during the heady days of Atkins.

IMO this development squad should augment what's already there, not replace it.

Amen Bungle, Amen.

[Deepcut Cobbler]

Mark Bunn came from Spurs

[bungle]

We got Johnson from Cambridge he didn't come through our age group teams.

The point still stands.

Interesting that Foyle seems to be suggesting that new training facilities are very much in the offing.

[Dr Feelgood]

Welcome aboard Foyley..

[Bingers]

When was the last time we picked up a young player released from higher up thats actually been any good

Marc Richards.

Although it did take him a while to come good.

[DrillingCobbler]

I really hope this is not the case. For me, the youth set up has been one of the few unequivocally bright spots in the Cardoza era. Chambers, Bunn, Johnson, Jacobs and Toney have all come through in the last ten years and we've also made money from many youngsters who were poached before they even reached the first team. Sceptics should compare this record to the early Sixfields days when we produced absolutely nothing, even during the heady days of Atkins.

IMO this development squad should augment what's already there, not replace it.

I agree. However for balance, only Chambers and Jacobs have come through the ages and been sold so in 10 years thats around 700-800k netted. Factor in all of the wages of 1st/2nd year pros who never made it plus of course the wages to those two players and it would have lost shed loads...

That money could have been spent on enticing a few more 16/17 year olds from other clubs (aka Bunn and Bradley J) plus of course more money thrown at the first time.

As I said, commercially it's difficult to justify the set up we have these days and a different and radical approach could benefit the whole club.

I can see arguments both for and against...

It would be a shame in many ways but if DC made that decision I would back him for it...

[HertsCobbler]

I agree. However for balance, only Chambers and Jacobs have come through the ages and been sold so in 10 years thats around 700-800k netted. Factor in all of the wages of 1st/2nd year pros who never made it plus of course the wages to those two players and it would have lost shed loads...

That money could have been spent on enticing a few more 16/17 year olds from other clubs (aka Bunn and Bradley J) plus of course more money thrown at the first time.

As I said, commercially it's difficult to justify the set up we have these days and a different and radical approach could benefit the whole club.

I can see arguments both for and against...

It would be a shame in many ways but if DC made that decision I would back him for it...

I wonder if we will then need to join this under 21 league which has replaced reserve football.  I believe it allows the odd over 21 to play and could also allow the final year scholars to be really tested?

[Winslow Lee]

Maybe this is a response to the new rules that allow big teams to cherry pick the youth teams of smaller teams for next to nothing. Unless a player is a late bloomer its becoming more and more likely any really talented young player will end up in the inflated youth set ups at bigger clubs. So it maybe makes sense to concentrate more on looking out for players who slip through the cracks at better clubs than spending too much on the youth set up. There seem to be more and more players like Charlie Austin who drop out of youth set ups at big teams, drop into the non league before making it big.

[Ryan Amoo 14]

Maybe this is a response to the new rules that allow big teams to cherry pick the youth teams of smaller teams for next to nothing. Unless a player is a late bloomer its becoming more and more likely any really talented young player will end up in the inflated youth set ups at bigger clubs. So it maybe makes sense to concentrate more on looking out for players who slip through the cracks at better clubs than spending too much on the youth set up. There seem to be more and more players like Charlie Austin who drop out of youth set ups at big teams, drop into the non league before making it big.

Very good point Lee.  The EPPP transfer fee structure really isn't good news for clubs at our level. 

If you're unaware of exactly how it works take a read of some articles online.  It's a nice little system to ensure clubs with a high classification of academy (i.e. significant wealth) can just poach players for a nominal fee from any academy below them in the food chain.

Buying your way into the top category requires a commitment to providing 18 full time academy staff and an annual operational budget of £2.5 million so you can imagine the profile of the clubs who are going to be in that group.

Putting our focus on developing 18-20 year old players makes a lot more sense (in purely financial terms).

[DrillingCobbler]

Very good point Lee.  The EPPP transfer fee structure really isn't good news for clubs at our level. 

If you're unaware of exactly how it works take a read of some articles online.  It's a nice little system to ensure clubs with a high classification of academy (i.e. significant wealth) can just poach players for a nominal fee from any academy below them in the food chain.

Buying your way into the top category requires a commitment to providing 18 full time academy staff and an annual operational budget of £2.5 million so you can imagine the profile of the clubs who are going to be in that group.

Putting our focus on developing 18-20 year old players makes a lot more sense (in purely financial terms).

More good points. Although I didn't mention this (I didn't know the specifics) I knew that it was easier these days to 'nick' players so the chances of ever getting a top notch kid coming through the ranks and being able to sell him for a million plus is virtually zero...Ivan Toney is the exception, not the rule. And we haven't got anything yet for him at this moment in time!

The more I think about it, the more I would be in favour of investing nothing in youth football (just use whatever the grants are with no top up whatsoever) and invest that money in the way that you suggest...

[clarkeysntfc]

Has anyone got anything official on this supposed scrapping of the youth set up or is this just conjecture?

[bungle]

The more I think about it, the more I would be in favour of investing nothing in youth football (just use whatever the grants are with no top up whatsoever) and invest that money in the way that you suggest...

If every club thought in this way then the future of English football would in even more of a perilous state than it is now.

I also think it's a misrepresentation to suggest that the success of the youth set up is limited to Jacobs and Chambers. Hornby, Snedker, and going back further, Carruthers and Dunn (bear with me!) have all come through and made significant contributions to the first team. It's all very well saying that Toney came from Leicster but if we hadn't had a proper youth system we wouldn't have been able to pick him up and develop him.

We also received quite a bit of compensation for the likes of Courtney Cameron (£35k according to wiki), Fraser Hornby (an initial £65,500 and up to a maximum of £1.3m depending on appearances, source: BBC)  and Michael Gyasi.

I completely agree with you that the 18-21 category should be given the highest priority, but I'd personally hate to see us scrap the youth system.

[Ryan Amoo 14]

If every club thought in this way then the future of English football would in even more of a perilous state than it is now.

I also think it's a misrepresentation to suggest that the success of the youth set up is limited to Jacobs and Chambers. Hornby, Snedker, and going back further, Carruthers and Dunn (bear with me!) have all come through and made significant contributions to the first team. It's all very well saying that Toney came from Leicster but if we hadn't had a proper youth system we wouldn't have been able to pick him up and develop him.

We also received quite a bit of compensation for the likes of Courtney Cameron (£35k according to wiki), Fraser Hornby (an initial £65,500 and up to a maximum of £1.3m depending on appearances, source: BBC)  and Michael Gyasi.

I completely agree with you that the 18-21 category should be given the highest priority, but I'd personally hate to see us scrap the youth system.

Just as a point of reference - you're going to see 'up to a maximum of £1.3 million' every time a youth player moves on under those circumstances.

That's the maximum compensation available to the selling club for future top-flight appearances of the player under the EPPP. 100 Premier League appearances will trouser the selling club £1.3m.

[DrillingCobbler]

If every club thought in this way then the future of English football would in even more of a perilous state than it is now.

I also think it's a misrepresentation to suggest that the success of the youth set up is limited to Jacobs and Chambers. Hornby, Snedker, and going back further, Carruthers and Dunn (bear with me!) have all come through and made significant contributions to the first team. It's all very well saying that Toney came from Leicster but if we hadn't had a proper youth system we wouldn't have been able to pick him up and develop him.

We also received quite a bit of compensation for the likes of Courtney Cameron (£35k according to wiki), Fraser Hornby (an initial £65,500 and up to a maximum of £1.3m depending on appearances, source: BBC)  and Michael Gyasi.

I completely agree with you that the 18-21 category should be given the highest priority, but I'd personally hate to see us scrap the youth system.

Fair points and I agree in principle BUT NTFC have to make best use of the football system, the future of English football is not down to one or a few pioneering lower league clubs...that responsibility lies at the top with the FA.

The rules in place currently do not encourage smaller clubs to invest in youth which is the problem. Even with your figures, it doesn't justify spending 200 grand a year to sustain the youth system in it's current guise, of course I'm guessing on those numbers....

Clarkey... Total conjecture on my part! I was just wondering where the cash was coming from to employ a high profile coach and his team to seek and look after this 'development squad'. It may be being pinched from the players wages budget, if that is the case it's going to have detrimental effects at least in the short term.

[John]

Top clubs get the top youth players, they get so many that it's obvious they can't all make it to become Premiership players. However just because they are not of that standard doesn't mean they wont be plenty good enough for the football league. Getting a head start in picking up any of those players has to be a step in the right direction for the club. Chances are a lot of our competitors in this league simply wont be able to afford to appoint somebody like Martin Foyle to specifically do this job. That has to be to our advantage and the club and Chairman should be applauded.