EastNpton
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« on: December 14, 2010, 15:17:46 pm » |
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I wonder who coaches our strikers in the art of forward play? Our players never seem to make attacking runs and through balls are few and far between.
On Sat, Mckay seemed to be far too happy hiding behind their defenders and made zero runs.
To be a successful striker you need to make your own chances through either A (holding the ball up, turning and shooting I.e Bayo) Making offensive runs i.e Tevez Torres of old) or C (being brilliant in the air i.e Tim Cahill).
I'm concerned that our strikers don't know how to score a goal unless it is given to them on a plate (rare)
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SATURDAY BANANA
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« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2010, 15:47:03 pm » |
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No that attacking run Gilligan made to meet up with the brilliant cross from Davis was shocking....he really should have scored!
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4everdelayed
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« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2010, 16:40:54 pm » |
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Leon is a beast. The other lads need more time, you don't get the sort of cool finishing ability a McKenzie or a Bayo has in your first couple of seasons it's something that comes with experience. McKay's only in his second season at this level of football. Leon only got 2 goals in his first couple of seasons at Palace, McKay's notched 10 for us so far. Given time, I reckon he'll turn into a good L1/L2 goalscorer.
The others don't look like goalscorers, though. King looks a decent player, Jarvis looks low on confidence, Konstantinou's untested at this level, and Herbert seems to have fallen off the face of the earth.
Also we tend to play Holt hoofball after going ahead lately, very predictable football. We don't leave anyone up top when defending corners, we seem to sit back too much and invite pressure. so it's no surprises chances are few and far between.
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EastNpton
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« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2010, 16:57:27 pm » |
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No that attacking run Gilligan made to meet up with the brilliant cross from Davis was shocking....he really should have scored! A run from midfield from Gilligan (a one off I might add) is quite different from the continual probing runs that strikers are supposed to make
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SteveRiches
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« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2010, 17:10:10 pm » |
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A striker is also a forward, but a forward is not necessarily a striker. Our club hasn't spotted the difference over the last 3 or4 seasons. We've had lots of forwards, but I hate seeing them described as "strikers".
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Alfred
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« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2010, 17:20:23 pm » |
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A striker is also a forward, but a forward is not necessarily a striker. Our club hasn't spotted the difference over the last 3 or4 seasons. We've had lots of forwards, but I hate seeing them described as "strikers".
Steve, We get the message about forwards and strikers... give it up now its about the 20th time i have read the same post from you on 20 different threads - WE GET THE MESSAGE. but can you also confirm is McKay a forward or a striker ?
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SteveRiches
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« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2010, 09:25:04 am » |
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Steve, We get the message about forwards and strikers... give it up now its about the 20th time i have read the same post from you on 20 different threads - WE GET THE MESSAGE.
but can you also confirm is McKay a forward or a striker ?
Sorry Alfred, but I'll keep on until the problem is addressed! It's the one stunningly obvious area where the club has messed around with second-class solutions that never work - although McKenzie would be the one EXCEPT for the fact he hardly plays due to injury. McKay is a forward with striking potential, but he isn't there yet. Watch him when he hesitates for a split second when he has just one defender between him and goal - usually he goes sideways instead of taking him on, or shovels the ball off elsewhere. If he feels he hasn't the footwork to get round a defender then get out there for 2 extra hours every day until he has - surely some of it can be coached into him? He needs to become totally selfish and focused on sticking the ball into the net from every angle using every little chink of a chance, with either foot and his head. He got a great right-footed goal the other week, we need more of that, hit it first and think after, not the other way round. As to his heading, it's poor, and not all to do with being a midget. He also needs to get more power into his shots. In any case, none of this in the end is a matter of opinion, it's a simple matter of statistics - ie. goals scored. McKay has some but not enough. McKenzie has a great strike rate per minute played, but there's not enough minutes. The rest are useless. King is NOT a striker, and of the short time I've seen Jarvis, neither is he. Hope I'm proved wrong, but you must ask yourself, if a player is a good striker, which club in its right mind would send them out on loan? They are rare beasts, not ten-a-penny. We're getting them because they're no good. In my mind there are 2 totally specialist positions in the game - goalkeeper and striker. Their mental makeup and set of skills needed makes them different. Some other positions are often interchangeable, these two are not. If it wasn't for our midfielders chipping in with goals as part of their skill-set, we'd be dead - but that should be our secondary source of goals, not our primary one. One other point is to do with service - strikers need balls cut back from the byline, that's where most goals come from, and we're not providing enough of that. So they end up getting pulled too wide in search of the ball.
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« Last Edit: December 15, 2010, 09:27:41 am by SteveRiches »
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sbedscobb
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« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2010, 09:46:35 am » |
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Steve Howard, Sam Parkin and steve Morrison were all forwards here but turned into £1,000,000 strikers elsewhere!
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SteveRiches
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« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2010, 10:53:41 am » |
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Steve Howard, Sam Parkin and steve Morrison were all forwards here but turned into £1,000,000 strikers elsewhere!
Yep - Howard was bought by Atkins as a "...head on a stick" but we developed him further (or, he devloped himself) before we sold him on to Luton...he always had a striker's instinct, Parkin was an odd one, never got any service here but went to, I think, Swindon, where for a while he got lots...never looked great here and I'd say I've no idea how he suddenly came good. Morison was definitely a late developer - all we can hope is that McKay is the same...there wasn't much of an outcry when we got shot of him. McGleish stopped looking much good here once we withdrew him from prime striking duties and made him into a chasing midfielder, but he's one with striker's blood and doing it even now. We should have kept him and played him properly, but there never was any service for him at that stage. No ball = no goals. I expect the point you make is that some suddenly blossom in one arena, and yet look poor in another, and if that's what you mean I'd agree with you. There certainly enough examples of it. We just never seem to get any blossomers!
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threeinabed
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« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2010, 11:32:58 am » |
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i dont think steve howard is classed as a striker, he is more of a forward
does mckay learning how to take someone on turn him from a forward to a striker?!
i think due to the modern game there arent many teams who have themselves an out an out striker as opposed to forwards.
cant think of any players at the top 4 clubs who would be regarded as a striker as opposed to a forward.......apart from possibly michael owen.
and to be honest, who gives a s*** - i would quite happily have a forward who scored 20 goals a year, or would that make him a striker?!
no, ive decided, i dont care if they are a striker or a forward, just as long as they arent s***.
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EastNpton
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« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2010, 12:46:16 pm » |
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So County Cobbler Steve you are basically agreeing that the strikers need coaching better in the finer points of goalscoring
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cobblersareus
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« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2010, 15:30:51 pm » |
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Steve, your summary leads me to one player in our squad- Michael Jacobs. Before you all shoot me down immediately, just give it some thought.
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bungle
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« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2010, 16:13:08 pm » |
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I think the problem is that at this level you need both: a good forward, usually a target man, who can either hold it up and bring others into play or threaten with pace and power, and a fox in the box type who can finish well enough to get 15-20 goals a season.
Last year we had Bayo who did a great job at fulfilling both these roles.
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EastNpton
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« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2010, 16:20:01 pm » |
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Steve, your summary leads me to one player in our squad- Michael Jacobs. Before you all shoot me down immediately, just give it some thought.
I thought that Jacobs was great coming off the bench up front against Forest Green and think he could do well up front again given the chance
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4everdelayed
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« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2010, 16:27:49 pm » |
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Surely by now we've learned that playing players in their natural position is the way forward?
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SteveRiches
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« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2010, 16:39:32 pm » |
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So County Cobbler Steve you are basically agreeing that the strikers need coaching better in the finer points of goalscoring
Well, I'd be surprised if some of the necessary skills cannot be taught, but in the end the important part of the process is the mental approach of being a selfish greedy swine who is never happy until he's put the ball into the net - with the occasional layoff to a colleague in a better position just so they'll all talk to you in the changing room! Also see here a comment about Michael Jacobs, excellent point, he scores goals instinctively, and I think we should at least try him up front. I sent in my Chron article about 30 mins ago and actually said that before reading it here (honest!). Years ago at mens hockey I used to play inside a right-winger who would never pass me the ball if he saw a glimpse of goal, BUT he scored so many that way when he shouldn't have that I could hardly complain. That's what I mean about striker mentality, you need the skill but you also need the utter self-centred wish to put the ball into the net.
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DrillingCobbler
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« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2010, 16:46:54 pm » |
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Well, I'd be surprised if some of the necessary skills cannot be taught, but in the end the important part of the process is the mental approach of being a selfish greedy swine who is never happy until he's put the ball into the net - with the occasional layoff to a colleague in a better position just so they'll all talk to you in the changing room!
Also see here a comment about Michael Jacobs, excellent point, he scores goals instinctively, and I think we should at least try him up front. I sent in my Chron article about 30 mins ago and actually said that before reading it here (honest!).
Years ago at mens hockey I used to play inside a right-winger who would never pass me the ball if he saw a glimpse of goal, BUT he scored so many that way when he shouldn't have that I could hardly complain. That's what I mean about striker mentality, you need the skill but you also need the utter self-centred wish to put the ball into the net.
I played Mens hockey for a couple of years (when I was 18-20) for Kettering. I was that right winger! Well I scored a bloody blinding goal on my last outing for them...and indeed the last game of hockey I played! Picked the ball up on the edge of our own D and ran the length of the field, beating 4 or 5 players.....
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SteveRiches
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« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2010, 17:15:06 pm » |
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I played Mens hockey for a couple of years (when I was 18-20) for Kettering. I was that right winger! Well I scored a bloody blinding goal on my last outing for them...and indeed the last game of hockey I played! Picked the ball up on the edge of our own D and ran the length of the field, beating 4 or 5 players..... I don't think you were that winger - I did play for Kettering for a season when my legs were knackered, but the bloke I mean played with me for Corby - he was John Pearson, God knows where he is now!
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