Should he stay or should he go?

[Irchy cob]

For what it's worth I say go - the main drawback to this is that he and presumably his staff are all sitting on 3 year contracts (is this the first and pretty big mistake made by KT - what was wrong with the rolling contract that seemed to be en vogue?). Also the argument that there are no outstanding candidates to replace him isn't a reason for him to stay - if the job becomes available I'm sure decent options would emerge. I just feel that things have gone too far with the majority of the fans for him to get back in the good books - and things could very well get worse before they get better. And much as I hate the phrase it looks like he's lost the dressing room or at least large sections of it

[Cobbler78]

Actually you do need to say something else, because unfortunately like most one dimensional internet chat you are exercising you simplistic right to selectively use only the facts that suit your argument.

How about a Chris Wilder run of 6 points from an available 33 points - you and your short term views would have certainly had him sacked on that form - and how correct would that have been? 

So I'm not going to up my meds but you should possibly grow up and match expectation with reality - I'm not blind & certainly not over impressed with a lot of things on the pitch this season - we were certainly s***e at both Bradford & Peterborough but only an idiot would say we were not unlucky not to get something against Bolton or Peterborough at home -  overall I think we a good enough to stay up and frankly that's enough for our first season in L1

100% agree

[guest170]

Actually you do need to say something else, because unfortunately like most one dimensional internet chat you are exercising you simplistic right to selectively use only the facts that suit your argument.

How about a Chris Wilder run of 6 points from an available 33 points - you and your short term views would have certainly had him sacked on that form - and how correct would that have been? 

So I'm not going to up my meds but you should possibly grow up and match expectation with reality - I'm not blind & certainly not over impressed with a lot of things on the pitch this season - we were certainly s***e at both Bradford & Peterborough but only an idiot would say we were not unlucky not to get something against Bolton or Peterborough at home -  overall I think we a good enough to stay up and frankly that's enough for our first season in L1

My thoughts too. I want to see what he does in January. I am hoping that he can bring in the players we need and also off load the ones he doesnt rate. If he can then steady the team for the remainder of the season and finish comfortably mid table we can then have next summer to further add. Its similar to what we did with Wilder and look how that worked out. If we are still getting poor performances and results after January then maybe its time to rethink, but for me its the wrong time to be making big decisions like this.

[ntfc01]

Unlucky? were you at the games? because we've been terrible. If we continue this form we'll be relegated, I'm sure you'll take a lot of comfort in the fact at the end of the year that we were mid table at this point and playing terribly?

You're snarky comment would be perfectly fair, if this was the end point in the season. Our position would be great if that was where we were heading, but we are not.

I don't know what you have been watching...we have hardly been terrible in those four games I have seen us play a hell of a lot worse and win.. we're we really that bad against Bolton? I think not, we weren't that bad against pish, the only reason everyone has the hump on that one was because of who it was against

[WasRambo]

Page is no Wilder, Wilder never looked anywhere near as utterly incompetent as page does. We've played worse in the majority of recent games than most people will be able to remember playing for a long long time. Time will tell who's right, but I can tell you it won't be you.

Page isn't Wilder though is he? No charisma, apparently no man management either.

Page has instigated the dismantling of a title winning squad (OK, Holmes was a fait accompli) and presided over double defeats to our fiercest rivals and now a totally shambolic and embarrassing cup exit.

Setting aside our downward spiral as far as league form and position goes, the above points alone must put him on very, very thin ice.

[rebelspawn]

I don't know what you have been watching...we have hardly been terrible in those four games I have seen us play a hell of a lot worse and win.. we're we really that bad against Bolton? I think not, we weren't that bad against pish, the only reason everyone has the hump on that one was because of who it was against

We were poor against Bolton, we were poor against Posh and we were appaling last night.

Do you think its just bad luck that we keep conceding late goals? Do you think its bad luck that before saturday we went 350 minutes without scoring? do think its just bad luck that we failed to have a shot on target against a team 4 leagues below us?

Page came straight out last night and said 'We had to come here and defend...we didnt do that'. That, right there, is the problem, we sit deep, we concede goals, and it stems from HIS tactics.

[Kingsthorpe Cobbler]

No, I don't want him to go yet. But I do worry with the fixtures coming up. Come January 2nd it may be very different.

Saturday is a big game for Page. Win and that is two league games in a row (decent form on paper). Lose with away games at Oxford & Sheff Utd followed by Bradford at home & he could be in serious trouble. The fans will start to turn big time & that will be when KT comes under pressure also.

Last nights performance certainly won't have helped his cause in any way.

[defender]

  Anybody got big Sams contact details, he needs a job.

[bri77]

Wilder had earnt the right to have more time based on his miracle in keeping us up so that argument doesn't really stack up.

What has Page actually done that's been good?

[Insider]

I am not generally in favour of sacking managers without giving them a full season in charge.  However, our recent form points towards a relegation straight back down to Div 2  and more worrying for me are the lack of tactical nous that Page seems to demonstrate, lack of ambition, negative obsession with defending, and an apparent inability to implement and effect a plan B.  Last night was a classic case in point: it was the 70th minute before he warmed up any subs.  Page spent virtually the whole 90 minutes slinked in the dugout.  The Revell/Richards partnership isn't really working, and Revell is in the middle of a very poor run of form.  Matt Taylor's crown is slipping and looking very tarnished.  Anderson almost refuses to take on his full back (but when he does, we usually see a positive result).  McCourt last night, words fail me (I'll be amazed if JJOT doesn't come in as a straight replacement for Saturday).  And yet he was unable, and from the sound of it unwilling, to change it because "they were lobbing the ball into the box and I didn't have a tall physical presence on the bench" when rather than trying to see out the game for a replay, he should have taken the game to Stourbridge.  So what did he do when plan A was so obviously not working? Brought on Hanley for Anderson (Hanley was bright at Bradford, but again this looked like a defensive move), and Iaciofano -in injury time FFS.    

Let's see how we do against Rochdale and at Oxford and Sheff U.  If he can show some passion, energy, and ideas, he should earn a reprieve. Personally, he's boring the pants off me and I don't believe he can turn this around.  Fine if he gets results with his tactics, a problem for KT if he doesn't.

[Martin]

I believe that he should go as soon as possible but doubt that KT will be rushed into that decision. Tactically he is bereft of ideas. His man-management appears to be suspect, and the players he has brought in are not of the required quality, with the possible exception of Zakuani and Revell.
Can he be trusted to correct things in January? I doubt it, based on his track record.
With Page at the helm and a tough run of matches coming up we could easily be looking at a relegation battle.

[guest1269]

.....but to return to the Page versus Wilder debate - people have such selective memories and/or actual knowledge - during Wilder's losing streak not only did he look a broken man in his post match interviews but we were also playing some hapless football (actually our goal difference in those two runs were almost identical with Page managing nearly twice as many points)  - and as for people who comment on comparable man management skills ask JJ how Wilder treated him during his period in the wilderness (literally).

Chris Wilder ultimately did a fantastic, almost miraculous job for us - he is also a shrewd operator & based on his reputation for being successful, does it not cross some of your minds that he knew we would lose some of our best players and not have the finances to replace anywhere near like for like - at best we were only going to have an average season this year even under him, so after successfully using Charlton's idiot owners he lands a job with a better chance of success and no doubt a considerably larger pay packet - and indeed good luck to him.

[clarkeysntfc]

I am 99% sure that Page has a budget that is at the very least equal to last seasons, and is probably bigger.

Other than Holmes forcing a move, all the other dismantling & subsequent poor recruitment has been Page's fault.

[guest1269]

I am 99% sure that Page has a budget that is at the very least equal to last seasons, and is probably bigger.

Other than Holmes forcing a move, all the other dismantling & subsequent poor recruitment has been Page's fault.

99% sure ......probably - I guess the 1% covers you 

[Vintage Cobbler]

I reckon that if we had lost ay Port Vale on Saturday or conceded a last minute equaliser there and followed this up with last night's performance Page would be looking for a new job this morning. I am sure KT must be considering the position.  So, he is yet another manager on the edge and if he is given a more time unless we perform well between now and 2 Jan I doubt that he will be here to strengthen the team next month.

Something has to be wrong for a side with the players we possess putting in such an abysmal performance last night.  I suffered by the radio and so cannot comment in depth but it sounded like at least 9 players were useless and couldn't string a pass together. Some there criticised the effort put in by some players and if there is a lack of commitment that is totally unacceptable.  Once again we conceded late in the game and that has to be largely down to playing too deep where individual errors are bound to happen.  If I was KT I would be questioning the manager today about tactics and motivation and also the senior professionals. Depending on the answers received KT may have to make a difficult decision.

[Vintage Cobbler]

To be fair to those having a go at Page for dismantling last season's side, Adams, Rose & Holmes all wanted to go and these were 3 important players who could perform well at L1 level. I think it was right not to sign Collins but I would have tried to keep Marquis who looked to be an improving player.  It may be that Byrom & McDonald can feel hard done by but that is football and every manager has his own views on players.  I don't think the inclusion of either of these players on a regular basis would have made a great difference to results. 

[JollyCobbler]

I am not generally in favour of sacking managers without giving them a full season in charge.  However, our recent form points towards a relegation straight back down to Div 2  and more worrying for me are the lack of tactical nous that Page seems to demonstrate, lack of ambition, negative obsession with defending, and an apparent inability to implement and effect a plan B.  Last night was a classic case in point: it was the 70th minute before he warmed up any subs.  Page spent virtually the whole 90 minutes slinked in the dugout.  The Revell/Richards partnership isn't really working, and Revell is in the middle of a very poor run of form.  Matt Taylor's crown is slipping and looking very tarnished.  Anderson almost refuses to take on his full back (but when he does, we usually see a positive result).  McCourt last night, words fail me (I'll be amazed if JJOT doesn't come in as a straight replacement for Saturday).  And yet he was unable, and from the sound of it unwilling, to change it because "they were lobbing the ball into the box and I didn't have a tall physical presence on the bench" when rather than trying to see out the game for a replay, he should have taken the game to Stourbridge.  So what did he do when plan A was so obviously not working? Brought on Hanley for Anderson (Hanley was bright at Bradford, but again this looked like a defensive move), and Iaciofano -in injury time FFS.    

Let's see how we do against Rochdale and at Oxford and Sheff U.  If he can show some passion, energy, and ideas, he should earn a reprieve. Personally, he's boring the pants off me and I don't believe he can turn this around.  Fine if he gets results with his tactics, a problem for KT if he doesn't.

This. YES, THIS!

[606 Parklands_Cobbler]

To be fair to those having a go at Page for dismantling last season's side, Adams, Rose & Holmes all wanted to go and these were 3 important players who could perform well at L1 level. I think it was right not to sign Collins but I would have tried to keep Marquis who looked to be an improving player.  It may be that Byrom & McDonald can feel hard done by but that is football and every manager has his own views on players.  I don't think the inclusion of either of these players on a regular basis would have made a great difference to results. 

I would have signed Collins...but do you not think the 3 at least deserved a chance to impress first? They have been cast aside without even a second glance. So much for team spirit.

[DrillingCobbler]

I've tried to like him, Ive tried to give him the time he needs. I've tried to justify in my own mind why he should be given at least the January window to improve things. BUT for the following reasons I want him gone. I've totally made my mind up now.

1. His total inability/refusal to change things during the course of matches and make proactive subs/tactical tweaks.
2. Last nights 91st minute substitution. Yes, Im serious. That was the final tipping point.
3. No connection with the fans whatsoever. Think Klopp. Or think Wilder. I want a manager with some character, an extrovert. This bloke is soooo boring outside looking in. I want camaraderie, win lose or draw. (but not in the shape of a nob, aka Gary Johnson!) He comes across as a nice bloke but he just doesn't seem to have much about him!
4. He's not getting the best out of very good players. Revell, Taylor, McCourt, Smith, McDonald, JJ. Theres 6 players we have available that we know are VERY GOOD. We've seen it with our own eyes, for more than a couple of games with each of them. They are either not playing or playing badly.
5. LAST NIGHT WAS A SACKABLE PERFORMANCE ON ITS OWN MERITS.

And thats about it. I know Im in the minority when I will say that last night wasn't about players not giving their all, I didn't see anyone hiding. They were all following Pages instruction...look up, compose, hoof to Revell/Richards. For 95 odd minutes.
I also think we've got a team (on paper) that can make the play offs. Especially with a successful January transfer window. Two many changes have been made but on the hole the squad we currently have is under achieving in my opinion.

Last night was the worst 90 minute performance (factoring in the opposition) I have seen in the 30 years I've been going. And I was at Crawley (2-4), I remember Canvey (TV), I remember that dreadful game at Basingstoke which we won on pens. I remember the 1-2 defeat versus Bromsgrove. The 4-1 defeat at Barnet 10 odd years ago when we were 1-0 up ht and should have conceded 6 or 7 minimum 2nd half (they were a division below us at the time). Of course theres the league games, the 2-7, the 0-7, loads of hammering's over the years. But last night beat them all...

What I will say is this. That I suspect a lot of people who are still standing by him didn't go last night. Remember it was the 2nd time most of us dragged ourselves up there in 9 days, that almost compounded things! And the journey home rubbed salt into the open wounds with pretty much every motorway closed, road works, diversions in place etc. The whole experience was footballing and mental torture from the off. He just isn't the right fit for us. Get rid KT, PLEASE!

[northycobbler]

I really can't call it. My head says that we should give him more time but my heart says that he should be sacked and a new man installed at the helm.

The reasons for keeping him, well...13th in League 1. As long as we're not in a relegation dogfight, I think the season has been a success. Had Wilder been in charge and guided us to 13th in the league, i'd have been satisfied. I'm also would give him the chance to put things right in the January transfer window, replacing Gorre and Hooper and bringing in that desperately needed striker. I think from the outside looking in, a newly promoted team sacking a manager when they are 13th in the league looks pretty ridiculous, and having a series of short term managers in the past has hindered our progress as opposed to aid it. I'm a big fan of continuity within a football club and this was demonstrated in Wilders tenure, where the team really felt like they were playing for each other and for us as fans. It was like a journey that we were all on together and at present we are on another journey, albeit at the beginning. Finally, Wilder went through a rough patch as many have mentioned, we stuck with him and the rest is history!

But...my heart says it's time for a change. Gone is the exciting, attacking football of last season. The champions of last season barely exist in our starting lineup and the spirit and togetherness within the team no longer seems to exist. The effort seems to be lacking, the constant defending deep and lack of pressing invites pressure onto us and as a result, we concede most games. On the transfer front, most of his transfers do not seem to be up to scratch, and I include or supposed marquee player Matt Taylor in this. His free kicks are undoubtedly superb but his corners (apart from one last against Port Vale which Zakuani scored) are normally hit long and he is at best an average league 1 midfielder. It was clear to see in the summer the areas that needed strengthening, in particular the wide areas and a striker. Gorre and Hooper have simply been useless and Beautyman, well he doesn't even make it into the first team line up - a total waste of money. Add into this, the fact that some of our players seem to have regressed in their performances from last season, culminating in Smithy being dropped from the team. I seriously question the ability of the coaching team, something which Page himself has assembled.

I think he has a lot to do and it will be hard for him to win over the fans. If he loses all 3 of the next games, I think he will be sacked and rightly so. A win from just one in a series of difficult games, then I would give him the chance to right his wrongs over January and see where we go from there. I can tolerate playing a different brand of football to the Wilder era but what I cannot tolerate is Northampton Town sliding back down into League 2 when they have worked so hard to get out of it. If at any point we are in any danger of this happening, the decision will have to be made early. The next 3 games are massive for the tenure of Page.