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NORTHAMPTON TOWN PART WITH 5USPORT

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« Reply #420 on: April 03, 2018, 21:47:40 pm »

So the way I see it......5USports came in, paid some money but not all of it.....Northampton Town Ventures confirmation statement was made AFTER the Chinese arrival and showed no changes to the shareholdings of the "parent company" of the football club.
The money was still not forthcoming so David Bower via another company Belle De Jour based in the British Virgin Isles loaned the football club via the parent company £1.1 million in January. If 5U had come up with more money by the end of January they would have been entitled to claim the shares in NT Ventures and therefore gain control of the Parent Company (60%).
They didn't so Yeung and Zheng....both of whom had been appointed as directors of both NT Ventures and NTFC were removed from both companies on 28th March.

Bower, who had resigned from NT Ventures following the appointment of Yeung and Zheng put the money in and the company Belle De Jour has been registered at Companies House as "a person with significant control" in NT Ventures.

Northampton Town Ventures hold more than 75% of the shares in the Football Club, and Belle de Jour now own more than 75% of the shares in Northampton Town Ventures.

Ergo.....David Bower owns the Football Club!!

Respect to your investigative endeavours, and thank you for sharing this with us.   A cracking bit of research that is well presented and very clear.

(Do I sound like Cecilia?)
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« Reply #421 on: April 03, 2018, 21:55:01 pm »

So the way I see it......5USports came in, paid some money but not all of it.....Northampton Town Ventures confirmation statement was made AFTER the Chinese arrival and showed no changes to the shareholdings of the "parent company" of the football club.
The money was still not forthcoming so David Bower via another company Belle De Jour based in the British Virgin Isles loaned the football club via the parent company £1.1 million in January. If 5U had come up with more money by the end of January they would have been entitled to claim the shares in NT Ventures and therefore gain control of the Parent Company (60%).
They didn't so Yeung and Zheng....both of whom had been appointed as directors of both NT Ventures and NTFC were removed from both companies on 28th March.

Bower, who had resigned from NT Ventures following the appointment of Yeung and Zheng put the money in and the company Belle De Jour has been registered at Companies House as "a person with significant control" in NT Ventures.

Northampton Town Ventures hold more than 75% of the shares in the Football Club, and Belle de Jour now own more than 75% of the shares in Northampton Town Ventures.

Ergo.....David Bower owns the Football Club!!

Agree really good stuff GPC
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« Reply #422 on: April 03, 2018, 22:06:54 pm »

So the way I see it......5USports came in, paid some money but not all of it.....Northampton Town Ventures confirmation statement was made AFTER the Chinese arrival and showed no changes to the shareholdings of the "parent company" of the football club.
The money was still not forthcoming so David Bower via another company Belle De Jour based in the British Virgin Isles loaned the football club via the parent company £1.1 million in January. If 5U had come up with more money by the end of January they would have been entitled to claim the shares in NT Ventures and therefore gain control of the Parent Company (60%).
They didn't so Yeung and Zheng....both of whom had been appointed as directors of both NT Ventures and NTFC were removed from both companies on 28th March.

Bower, who had resigned from NT Ventures following the appointment of Yeung and Zheng put the money in and the company Belle De Jour has been registered at Companies House as "a person with significant control" in NT Ventures.

Northampton Town Ventures hold more than 75% of the shares in the Football Club, and Belle de Jour now own more than 75% of the shares in Northampton Town Ventures.

Ergo.....David Bower owns the Football Club!!
Good work there mate. Appreciate that.
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« Reply #423 on: April 03, 2018, 22:50:17 pm »

So Bri77 every manager we have had when we have struggled has been poor?



KT gained control of the club from NBC by saying he will develop the East stand with the £3m, he has done nothing yet still is under no pressure from fans or the Trust. Another deadline passes and in a meeting with the Trust, they all agree not to even talk about it as we face relegation.

Sorry but it is exactly the reason they should be talking about it, not sure how trust and chairman talking about the East stand affects our relegation surrender?  More excuses, more acceptance from the Trust.

It's time KT sold his interest for a small profit to the people of Northampton so we can actually start moving forward with our club. Perhaps then we as people of Northampton can speak with NBC about developing the land around Sixfields that will benefit us, training and sports facilities perhaps, something we could be proud of rather than more mediocre retail and industrial parks, of which we have plenty.
Derek I know you fell out with DC and, obviously, you have fell out with KT over something, but I would be grateful if you would stop making accusations about the Trust when you can't back anything up with evidence. Keep us out of YOUR personal disagreements
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« Reply #424 on: April 04, 2018, 01:41:26 am »

So the way I see it......5USports came in, paid some money but not all of it.....Northampton Town Ventures confirmation statement was made AFTER the Chinese arrival and showed no changes to the shareholdings of the "parent company" of the football club.
The money was still not forthcoming so David Bower via another company Belle De Jour based in the British Virgin Isles loaned the football club via the parent company £1.1 million in January. If 5U had come up with more money by the end of January they would have been entitled to claim the shares in NT Ventures and therefore gain control of the Parent Company (60%).
They didn't so Yeung and Zheng....both of whom had been appointed as directors of both NT Ventures and NTFC were removed from both companies on 28th March.

Bower, who had resigned from NT Ventures following the appointment of Yeung and Zheng put the money in and the company Belle De Jour has been registered at Companies House as "a person with significant control" in NT Ventures.

Northampton Town Ventures hold more than 75% of the shares in the Football Club, and Belle de Jour now own more than 75% of the shares in Northampton Town Ventures.

Ergo.....David Bower owns the Football Club!!

I think that's along the right lines but from what I've read of the documents I have a slightly different perspective.

Like you I agree the statement of shareholding in Northampton Town Ventures shows no change but it's curious this was posted in January on the same day of the legal charge.  My understanding is that the Chinese were majority shareholders in NVT and therefore owned the majority stake in the club.

The legal charge is where it gets interesting in my opinion.  What seems to have happened is that KT, Bower etc. Were funding the club to the tune of 1.1 million.  Not necessarily in one lump sum but over the first half of the season basically to keep us afloat in the absence of the promised Chinese investment.  Clearly a line in the sand was drawn in January where they set the deadline of the end of January for the investment in the club to materialise....which would repay the 1.1 million plus add funds for the January transfer window and rest of season.  To secure this "loan" of 1.1 mill the Chinese on behalf of NTV signed the legal charge which provided the shares in NTFC, essentially the ownership of the football club as security not the ownership of NTV.

So in simple terms they agreed that if they didn't repay the 1.1 mill by the end of January Bower via his Virgin Island firm would claim the ownership of the football club.  This would leave Northampton Town Ventures owned by the Chinese with nothing as the shares in the football club were it's  only real asset.

Obviously the deadline came and went I'm assuming funds didn't appear the legal charge was executed on the shares and Bowers Virgin Island firm now owns the football club.

This might then go some way in explaining the curious response of the Chinese saying they were still owners of Northampton Town Ventures.  Maybe they were/are but they don't own the club anymore so NTV is worthless.

I'm also assuming this is then why we have now seen Belle De Jour the Virgin Island firm as persons with significant interest in NTV as they now control the only asset NTV had i.e the football club shares so essentially they own NTV indirectly.  Whether this then gives them the right to remove the Chinese as directors???  I don't know.

Other option I guess is that the Chinese realised the game was up they had lost the shares in the football club and therefore agreed to resign and leave ownership of NTV with KT and Bower?

In the Chinese defence.  They clearly signed the legal charge on the shares back in January so either didn't realise what they had done or genuinely believed the investment would come through.  Why else give up your only asset and be left with nothing.  Also there was a definite change in the rules regarding Chinese overseas investment that happened last Autumn.  The Chinese leadership passed laws to restrict "frivolous" overseas investment as they were concerned regarding the volume of money that was leaving the country.  Remember the ridiculous transfer fees they were paying a couple of years ago?  Therefore it may well have been the case that they were genuinely unable to fulfill their original investment promises.....of course it could equally be the case they were a load of chancers who strung everyone along and never had the money in the first place.

Sorry bit long winded but hopefully it makes sense.  No guarantee I'm exactly right but it's what I've pieced together.

Things I've taken from this....fair play to KT, Bower etc. seems like they funded significantly to cover the shortfall though I guess they chose these business partners and put us in this position in the first place so not too much sympathy.  Thank god Bower knows his way round the legal stuff looks like he played a blinder.  I don't see any reason to be concerned the Chinese have any comeback so we can move on quickly.  Little concerned re funds coming in from Virgin Islands and wonder whether the football league will be totally happy about these goings on.  Probably be on Panorama some time in the future now we are funded/owned from a tax haven!

Moving forward it's clear belts are going to need to be tightened or another investment looked for.  Let's hope due diligence is a bit more thorough this time.

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« Reply #425 on: April 04, 2018, 08:36:36 am »

I think that's along the right lines but from what I've read of the documents I have a slightly different perspective.

Like you I agree the statement of shareholding in Northampton Town Ventures shows no change but it's curious this was posted in January on the same day of the legal charge.  My understanding is that the Chinese were majority shareholders in NVT and therefore owned the majority stake in the club.


The confirmation statement was indeed filed on 16th January however it was made on 4th November......so if no shares had changed hands on 4th November, some four months after the Chinese "arrived", did they ever "own" the shares??

It would appear that although Yeung and Zheng were listed as directors of NTV and NTFC in June, the transfer of shares to them never happened.
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« Reply #426 on: April 04, 2018, 10:10:58 am »

The confirmation statement was indeed filed on 16th January however it was made on 4th November......so if no shares had changed hands on 4th November, some four months after the Chinese "arrived", did they ever "own" the shares??

It would appear that although Yeung and Zheng were listed as directors of NTV and NTFC in June, the transfer of shares to them never happened.

I must say that you and Hammer make this subject very interesting and look forward to more in-depth discussions. This type of subject brings the best out of you GPC Cool
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« Reply #427 on: April 04, 2018, 10:39:41 am »

Roger I am sorry but the evidence is from Fez's own statement on this thread.

The Trust is there to represent the fans. You have had at least two meeting recently, one with NBC and one with KT. You have issued statements drafted as though you are bloody politicians, saying absolutely nothing of any substance other than come across as don't worry we know what is going on and we know best.

Again sorry but you were told / warned about DC for years, you (The Trust) were even in the boardroom yet you did and said nothing until it was basically too late. so why should we trust you now ?

Beds and I (and others) have asked on numerous occasions for information regarding the exact size and location of land / leases, of which you claim to have seen and still you do not communicate any information to us fans.

I don't understand with the Trust is that you all worked bloody hard and do loads of great work, give up your own valuable time, all for the good of NTFC, however when it comes to our club progressing and growing you all seem more than happy to sit on side, say nothing, demand or even ask for less, making sure you don't upset anyone in charge. I am sure i don't need to remind you that we have one of the smallest grounds in the country, one with one of the worst facilities, yet we must be one of only a few clubs that don't have a Prem / Championship club within 40 miles, all with a population of 250k on our doorstep. Our town can and should be supporting Championship football.

For almost 10 years now we have had a chairman who will not invest in anything medium term off the pitch. Once again we are back to League 2, history repeating itself again and again and again, and why?  Because just like Sammo said we have no plan, no identity, no vision, neither on or off the pitch.

So Roger the evidence is in the lack of evidence, in the lack of information, in the lack of questioning, in the lack of action. Please please please post on here, or a proper statement giving the exact details about what the Trust knows about the land and leases, who owns NTFC and what their plans are. I stood next to James at York away and said that KT will not develop the East stand, 2 years later I am still correct, another deadline has been and gone.

We, the fans want to know what is going on with our football club.



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« Reply #428 on: April 04, 2018, 10:53:00 am »

So the way I see it......5USports came in, paid some money but not all of it.....Northampton Town Ventures confirmation statement was made AFTER the Chinese arrival and showed no changes to the shareholdings of the "parent company" of the football club.
The money was still not forthcoming so David Bower via another company Belle De Jour based in the British Virgin Isles loaned the football club via the parent company £1.1 million in January. If 5U had come up with more money by the end of January they would have been entitled to claim the shares in NT Ventures and therefore gain control of the Parent Company (60%).
They didn't so Yeung and Zheng....both of whom had been appointed as directors of both NT Ventures and NTFC were removed from both companies on 28th March.

Bower, who had resigned from NT Ventures following the appointment of Yeung and Zheng put the money in and the company Belle De Jour has been registered at Companies House as "a person with significant control" in NT Ventures.

Northampton Town Ventures hold more than 75% of the shares in the Football Club, and Belle de Jour now own more than 75% of the shares in Northampton Town Ventures.

Ergo.....David Bower owns the Football Club!!

This is a brilliant summary. I've done less reading than you clearly have but this is close to my understanding.

I do feel that, as a fan base, we a still reeling from the Cardoza saga and are a bit quick to see the 'dodgy' in any news related to the financial running of the club and/or the conduct of its owners.

If this summary is accurate, the reality is that KT, Bower & co. probably did a pretty decent job of protecting themselves and the club throughout this brief encounter with 5USport.

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« Reply #429 on: April 04, 2018, 11:03:05 am »

I am sure i don't need to remind you that we have one of the smallest grounds in the country, one with one of the worst facilities, yet we must be one of only a few clubs that don't have a Prem / Championship club within 40 miles, all with a population of 250k on our doorstep. Our town can and should be supporting Championship football.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_districts_by_population

I see we have the 73rd largest district by population. We must be close to 73rd in the league?

And we have title winning Leicester City less than 40 miles away.
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« Reply #430 on: April 04, 2018, 11:10:32 am »

Yes the borough of Northampton is 73rd BUT the strength of NTFC has been it is the County's team, which shows when you see the spread and number of season tickets holders. You can more than double that population when you take in the county towns and support we have from Northamptonians now living in Milton Keynes.
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« Reply #431 on: April 04, 2018, 11:14:24 am »

Ok Wolvo Leicester is more or less 40 miles away.

How many clubs do Huddersfield / Burnley / Watford / Stoke / have within 40 miles?

How many do Rochdale, Southend, Bradford, Gillingham, Portsmouth?

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« Reply #432 on: April 04, 2018, 11:19:33 am »

Roger I am sorry but the evidence is from Fez's own statement on this thread.

The Trust is there to represent the fans. You have had at least two meeting recently, one with NBC and one with KT. You have issued statements drafted as though you are bloody politicians, saying absolutely nothing of any substance other than come across as don't worry we know what is going on and we know best.

Again sorry but you were told / warned about DC for years, you (The Trust) were even in the boardroom yet you did and said nothing until it was basically too late. so why should we trust you now ?

Beds and I (and others) have asked on numerous occasions for information regarding the exact size and location of land / leases, of which you claim to have seen and still you do not communicate any information to us fans.

I don't understand with the Trust is that you all worked bloody hard and do loads of great work, give up your own valuable time, all for the good of NTFC, however when it comes to our club progressing and growing you all seem more than happy to sit on side, say nothing, demand or even ask for less, making sure you don't upset anyone in charge. I am sure i don't need to remind you that we have one of the smallest grounds in the country, one with one of the worst facilities, yet we must be one of only a few clubs that don't have a Prem / Championship club within 40 miles, all with a population of 250k on our doorstep. Our town can and should be supporting Championship football.

For almost 10 years now we have had a chairman who will not invest in anything medium term off the pitch. Once again we are back to League 2, history repeating itself again and again and again, and why?  Because just like Sammo said we have no plan, no identity, no vision, neither on or off the pitch.

So Roger the evidence is in the lack of evidence, in the lack of information, in the lack of questioning, in the lack of action. Please please please post on here, or a proper statement giving the exact details about what the Trust knows about the land and leases, who owns NTFC and what their plans are. I stood next to James at York away and said that KT will not develop the East stand, 2 years later I am still correct, another deadline has been and gone.

We, the fans want to know what is going on with our football club.




The problem is Derek, you're judging us on your point of view of how YOU THINK the Trust should operate. It represents the WHOLE fanbase, not all of whom will share your opinion.

For every fan who says it needs to upset the apple cart, there's another that would argue it should remain working quietly behind the scenes. It's a difficult balancing act that I accept won't please everyone because we have to find some middle ground.

Do you honestly believe that the Trust don't want to tell you everything that was said at the council meeting? I didn't go myself, I'd love to have heard every word. But if we blurt out everything suddenly we don't find ourselves at the table with the decision makers any more.

This is my opinion, but I'd sooner rather have you criticise the Trust for not making every single detail public than to never get a meeting with the council again and lose any influence on discussions that we may have had.

You mention that the Trust was 'warned about DC for years'. For every person 'warning' us about him there were three or four who would tell us he was as good as gold. And do you honestly think it could have stopped something that the police have been investigating for three years - and have yet to make any charges in connection with?

Could we perhaps have said something sooner? Arguably yes - but again, it's subjective. Just think back to how many people refused to take 'We Want Answers' leaflets when we handed them out at that Oxford game, telling us that we should be getting behind the chairman.

That whole 'We Want Answers' campaign shows that when there's no other option on the cards, we'll take a tough public stance if we can. But until then, we're trying our best as we have throughout the season, to try and mediate between the club and the council behind the scenes. You'll know when we think that is no longer the best option available to us.

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« Reply #433 on: April 04, 2018, 11:22:59 am »

Wolvo, care to comment on anything else on my post rather than trying to pick at one tiny aspect of it?

Like most who post on here, you say nothing of any meaning other than trying to pick holes in anyones post who questions where we are and where we should be as a club.

I don't care about the money (as such), it is not the supporters job to be accountants for the owners, everyone knows that football is not a great investment in general, so please stop asking who is going to pay for it.

So if you want an outsider running the club demand that they invest and develop NTFC (not rely on NBC) or support the club into local hands including and especially the Trust, because they will put things in place

It is the small things that make the biggest difference, togetherness will achieve a whole lot more than 2 or 3 people on a pedestal.
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« Reply #434 on: April 04, 2018, 11:35:11 am »

Ok Wolvo Leicester is more or less 40 miles away.

How many clubs do Huddersfield / Burnley / Watford / Stoke / have within 40 miles?

How many do Rochdale, Southend, Bradford, Gillingham, Portsmouth?



Leicester might be 'more or less 40 miles away' from where you live... but the likes of Kettering, Corby, Rugby etc will live as close to Leicester as they will to Northampton. So saying we have no alternative doesn't really work. We're also an hour on the train from the London Prem clubs and an hour on the train from the West Midlands championship clubs.

No idea about the other examples you're throwing at me (except I know Southends big rival is Colchester about 40 miles away?).

How many big teams do MK, Peterborough, Cambridge, Oxford have? (just picking teams close by at a similar level to us).

Wolvo, care to comment on anything else on my post rather than trying to pick at one tiny aspect of it?

I felt that was the only part that needed picking up on. Everything else was kind of aimed at the Trust. I've made my feelings known about Fez plenty of times and need not comment again.
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« Reply #435 on: April 04, 2018, 11:39:38 am »

Hi James thank you so much for your measured response, as you know my passion often gets away with me.

I know you are in a very difficult place and i certainly know how many 'fans' were against "we want answers"

I know my posts come across as anti-Trust, I just more information. I am so so frustrated that we will be back in Div 4 again, especially given the circumstances.

I really don't want to be against KT but I really see very little difference from DC (illegal doings aside) in his desire to develop NTFC. Yes he is a lot more savvy, more modern etc and some minor things have improved but it would have been almost impossible not to.

I had hope that the Trust might have taken a slightly more demanding approach, sitting quietly on the sidelines didn't work before and it hasn't worked since.

I also don't understand how you telling fans about the details of the leases and land could upset NBC, to me the Trust should be demanding that information is available for all to see, we should know what is going on with our club and our (northampton's) land.

Again I do appreciate much of the work of the Trust but you have a very important role to play in NTFC and I think that you underestimate your power and what can be achieved.  BTW how are Wycombe doing? Do the Trust still run their club?
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« Reply #436 on: April 04, 2018, 11:44:41 am »

Grange Park - your brief on ownership  and 5usport is how I thought I understood things so this helps me to confirm my views as almost rational. But.
NTFC ltd has both Belle De Jour and Fantastical as having significant control but Belle De Jour having 75% or more of shares and Fantastical as having more than 50% but less than 75%! So how this totals 100%?
Either way it’s Bower with Thomas as the front man on both counts. I think.

Confusing eh!



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« Reply #437 on: April 04, 2018, 11:45:16 am »

Thanks Wolvo for your reply, I wasn't really saying there is no alternative but they are not exactly on our doorstep

MK have 30,000 capacity, Peterborough 12?, Oxford 12 with 3 sides lol, Cambridge not sure but is all about the University

Yes none of them have major clubs around them but all have higher capacity and generally better facilities than us.
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« Reply #438 on: April 04, 2018, 12:28:15 pm »

MK have 30,000 capacity, Peterborough 12?, Oxford 12 with 3 sides lol, Cambridge not sure but is all about the University

Yes none of them have major clubs around them but all have higher capacity and generally better facilities than us.

...and where has it got them?
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« Reply #439 on: April 04, 2018, 12:32:38 pm »

Not surprised we are only 73rd on the list of populations by district when it includes whole counties like Cornwall, Durham and Wiltshire! Northampton is the 23rd largest city/town in England. Not sure how catchment areas can ever be nailed down, on one hand you have the whole of Norfolk supporting Norwich, on the other Wigan and Bolton's grounds are only about 5 miles apart We are languishing in the lower divisions because of a history of missed opportunities and because we have never been lucky enough to have ever had a rich benefactor able to transform such as has happened at Reading or Wigan. In terms of championship (or higher) potential, population is about the only thing we have going for us!
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