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« Reply #40 on: July 23, 2017, 16:15:52 pm »

What is the difference between 5-3-2 and 4-3-3 as both can easily be achieved by a sub or change of formation. I like the sound of 5-3-2 with Poole supporting the midfield  a la 4-3-3. It also strongly hints at flexibility. Can the experts on here tell why they dont like JED's new system. Or is it purely based on the apparent growing anti JE party.

I don't dislike 5-3-2, in fact I've advocated using it in the past given the players we had at the time. And that's the key point. To me, it doesn't appear to suit certain players that we currently have and will mean other key players will be left out when a different formation would accommodate them better. That's just my view and at this stage it just makes me raise an eyebrow, no more, no less. I certainly don't have the knives out for anyone and I'm more than happy to sit back and see how things unfold. After all, I'm sure JED knows more about the players he has bought in than any of us do.
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« Reply #41 on: July 23, 2017, 16:24:02 pm »

There is nothing wrong with this formation as long as it is well drilled and intelligently operated. As I said in the first post of the thread, it can be used in both an attack-minded or defence-minded mode. My only concern is that it does not appear to particularly fit the summer recruitment or even the personnel we have. Powell for example. Possibly Buchanan.

Players make systems. Ideally you want a system that gets your best XI on the field together and with balance. We've signed a raft of attacking midfield players, then deployed a formation with just one of those positions available, with perhaps another attacking midfielder to come.

No knife sharpening yet from me, but I currently struggle to find a well thought through plan. It's only pre-season and so I look to Tuesday and ultimately Shrewsbury to see the plan hopefully coming together.
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« Reply #42 on: July 23, 2017, 16:26:58 pm »

As others have commented for all his strengths his delivery into the penalty box is often poor.

I remember a first game of season at BR when Buchanan sent in centre almost on the volley? which JJOT converted much to the horror of the BR home end. Pretty sure I read in some reports Buchanan sent in a fine cross into the box.If he can do it once he can do it again. I think it is snobbish elitism by some experts who say as you do.
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« Reply #43 on: July 23, 2017, 16:29:04 pm »

There is nothing wrong with this formation as long as it is well drilled and intelligently operated. As I said in the first post of the thread, it can be used in both an attack-minded or defence-minded mode. My only concern is that it does not appear to particularly fit the summer recruitment or even the personnel we have. Powell for example. Possibly Buchanan.

Players make systems. Ideally you want a system that gets your best XI on the field together and with balance. We've signed a raft of attacking midfield players, then deployed a formation with just one of those positions available, with perhaps another attacking midfielder to come.

No knife sharpening yet from me, but I currently struggle to find a well thought through plan. It's only pre-season and so I look to Tuesday and ultimately Shrewsbury to see the plan hopefully coming together.

The team you "selected" at the beginning of the thread looked good to me.
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« Reply #44 on: July 23, 2017, 16:33:37 pm »

But if that bench is full of players who are not capable of beating Kettering Town........?

So likely Bench may well be Powell,Kasim,Phillips,Smith,Goff,Revell,Barnett. So what is wrong with that Bench; expect it would be possible to swop a few around as swell.
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« Reply #45 on: July 23, 2017, 16:34:20 pm »

I remember a first game of season at BR when Buchanan sent in centre almost on the volley? which JJOT converted much to the horror of the BR home end. Pretty sure I read in some reports Buchanan sent in a fine cross into the box.If he can do it once he can do it again. I think it is snobbish elitism by some experts who say as you do.

I'm shìt at football but every now and again I can hit a ball with some venom. It'll even go in the right direction too. The next 99 times I try it's likely to scuff off to the side and bobble along the ground for a few feet. It stands to reason that Buchs (a very good professional footballer) will occasionally manage a decent cross, but the fact is he's got 7 assists in 107 games for us. That kind of speaks for itself without the need for any "snobbish elitism".
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« Reply #46 on: July 23, 2017, 16:45:25 pm »

I'm shìt at football but every now and again I can hit a ball with some venom. It'll even go in the right direction too. The next 99 times I try it's likely to scuff off to the side and bobble along the ground for a few feet. It stands to reason that Buchs (a very good professional footballer) will occasionally manage a decent cross, but the fact is he's got 7 assists in 107 games for us. That kind of speaks for itself without the need for any "snobbish elitism".

That's no comparison at all, Buchanan has probably put in many fine crosses, but our fwds last season weren't exactly great. Bit patronising to say that Buchanan "will occasionally manage a decent cross". I have seen Buchanan play many times both H&A; in fact a recent example of Buchanan putting in a decent cross was at Wimbledon last season which resulted in a penalty.
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« Reply #47 on: July 23, 2017, 16:50:39 pm »

That's no comparison at all, Buchanan has probably put in many fine crosses, but our fwds last season weren't exactly great. Bit patronising to say that Buchanan "will occasionally manage a decent cross". I have seen Buchanan play many times both H&A; in fact a recent example of Buchanan putting in a decent cross was at Wimbledon last season which resulted in a penalty.

Sadly no one records stats for "quite good ball put in that no one connected with" so we'll never be able to answer that one, will we? And his 107 appearances covers the season where we ended on 99 points so blaming last year's strike force isn't that valid an argument either.
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« Reply #48 on: July 23, 2017, 17:03:29 pm »

Sheffield Utd won the league last season with 3-5-2.
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« Reply #49 on: July 23, 2017, 17:22:16 pm »

What is the difference between 5-3-2 and 4-3-3 as both can easily be achieved by a sub or change of formation. I like the sound of 5-3-2 with Poole supporting the midfield  a la 4-3-3. It also strongly hints at flexibility. Can the experts on here tell why they dont like JED's new system. Or is it purely based on the apparent growing anti JE party.

would be happier if it was a midfield 3 and not the 2 with another player in the hole as suggested as I just think it leaves us too short in midfield, also for any 5 man defence to work the full backs need amazing stamina to get up and down the wings all game otherwise they end up as standard full backs and with five at the back you end up bringing the opposition on, giving them good possession in good attacking areas and its not even as if we have loads of pace in attack to hit teams on the counter.
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« Reply #50 on: July 23, 2017, 17:36:16 pm »

I've held the view for many years that for a lower or moderately financed club to get out of its league, 5-3-2 (3-5-2) is the way to go. With a top end budget, the more attacking options (like Wilders one when we won l2) are probably better.

Why? Because defenders or defensive players in general cost less money at our level than strikers/attacking players do. So you can stock up on good quality defenders and midfielders easier if you've got a bit less cash to spend than your rivals.

All of our top players are either defenders or solid looking midfielders. Where as our attacking options (in general) are overall not quite as tasty. Thats not to say they are not good, but I think its fair to say that our defensive and midfield units are both top8 in terms of overall quality where as our attacking unit is more middle8.

To get a Pierre/Poole/Crooks standard striker, you've got to be looking at 6/7/8-10k a week even at this level. Not the 3 - 4k a week level I suspect those players earn. Guess work of course but you aint gonna get a top league1 striker for 3 grand or even 4 grand a week. Not a chance! You've got to hit the lucky button, getting yourself 'a Lobjolt' on peanuts and reaping in the rewards in the short period of time before his contract is adjusted accordingly or he's flogged!

With the players we have (fullbacks/wingbacks) Id say only DB is not overly suited to this formation. The other 3 (and Im basing Smith on what I saw this week) can all bomb forward no problems. You don't build a team/squad around one single player. DB cannot cross the ball though, anyone who thinks he can will soon be changing their mind if he's our left 'wing back' come August. But the number 10's job could be to help out on the left side on the occasions DB moves into the final third. Its a flexible system.
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« Reply #51 on: July 23, 2017, 18:23:15 pm »

And his 107 appearances covers the season where we ended on 99 points so blaming last year's strike force isn't that valid an argument either.

Why not? Last years strike force and the L2 strikers with Collins, Marquis, Richards ,Adams including Holmes etc was I suggest pretty effective when compared with last season. But for JJOT and Taylor's goals we would not have survived. The simple fact is that last years strike force did not compare at all with the previous season in its ability to convert crosses.
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« Reply #52 on: July 23, 2017, 18:49:15 pm »

My personal opinion is that the formation is almost irrelevant. It depends on how well the players are drilled, how well they click and how much they play for their manager. Any formation works really, depending on the coaching and preparation behind it.
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« Reply #53 on: July 23, 2017, 18:49:30 pm »

Why not? Last years strike force and the L2 strikers with Collins, Marquis, Richards ,Adams including Holmes etc was I suggest pretty effective when compared with last season. But for JJOT and Taylor's goals we would not have survived. The simple fact is that last years strike force did not compare at all with the previous season in its ability to convert crosses.

Christ, it's like explaining something to a child... so based upon your logic, with all that firepower up front in our promotion season, Buchs should have racked up a good few assists with his wand like left peg. He didn't though, did he? Do you know why? Because he's shìt at crossing. Not a problem that year as he had wide options ahead of him to feed the ball to instead of having to do it himself. If he's played at wing back he won't have that option as he IS the wide player. That's my concern.
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« Reply #54 on: July 23, 2017, 18:50:41 pm »

Sheffield Utd won the league last season with 3-5-2.

They did indeed but the key was that they had excellent wing backs. As much as I like our full backs I can't see any of them getting the amount of goals Freeman got. It also seems odd that we have 2 players per position for 433 but 352 is the preference.

We'll have to see how it goes, we have two games against League opposition coming up, will be intriguing to see what JEDs preferred line up is. We seem to be leaning towards 2 CMs and a number 10, wonder if this will resrict Crooks and JJOT too much.

2 questions spring to mind for me, where would Powell play and do we have enough Centre Backs?

JEDs our manager and he'll live and die by his choices
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« Reply #55 on: July 23, 2017, 20:30:50 pm »

2 questions spring to mind for me, where would Powell play and do we have enough Centre Backs?

I think Powell flatters to deceive, not fussed that he may be left on the bench.
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« Reply #56 on: July 23, 2017, 20:54:00 pm »

lol is it everyone's time of the month.  Talk about mood swings and over reactions.

Last season we were too unfit and not training properly.  This season the fitness work is too hard?

Jak McCourts a bad apple, trains rubbish and is disruptive.....says JED won't last till Xmas....shocker!

Nobody liked the diamond.....we stop playing the diamond and people are unhappy.

We finish just above the relegation zone release loads of players but then it's deemed risky to sign so many new ones?

A squad with mostly new signings doesn't click straight in to gear....wow another shock.

I could go on but you probably get the message.

Chill relax and enjoy the ride.  We have....on paper... probably the strongest squad I can remember.  Our back ups are no longer Sonoupe, Hanley, McCourt etc.  This year every position has competition with quality.  Yet I read earlier this week multiple people worrying how we will keep them all happy....lol.

Anyway.  I like the new kit...had a great day at the family fun day and am looking forward to this season more than any for a long while.  Walking around the stadium today and seeing so many young fans the club is making great strides in and off the pitch. 

Patience is the key, take a chill pill and remember things have been much worse than this so enjoy yourself while you can.
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« Reply #57 on: July 23, 2017, 20:59:59 pm »

Christ, it's like explaining something to a child... so based upon your logic, with all that firepower up front in our promotion season, Buchs should have racked up a good few assists with his wand like left peg. He didn't though, did he? Do you know why? Because he's shìt at crossing. Not a problem that year as he had wide options ahead of him to feed the ball to instead of having to do it himself. If he's played at wing back he won't have that option as he IS the wide player. That's my concern.
 

You don't get it do you. If you think Buchanan is poor at crossing the ball then that's a childish view point. If he was that poor he would not have survived as first choice. Surely you can see that! When Adams didn't make the team who did we rely on for left wing back surges? Buchanan will do ok in a 5-3-2
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« Reply #58 on: July 23, 2017, 21:04:10 pm »

I think Powell flatters to deceive, not fussed that he may be left on the bench.

Not seen him yet and you may well be right, it just seems odd we signed him if it was the plan to play 352 all along.

Ah well JED knows, I'm going to chill out and go back to looking forward to the season
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« Reply #59 on: July 23, 2017, 21:11:51 pm »

lol is it everyone's time of the month.  Talk about mood swings and over reactions.



Good post MCH - the best bit is people worrying how some players will feel/cope with 5-3-2 and being left out. As if................. Then not satisfied with a moan at tactics they then feel that we don't have the right players for 5-3-2. As you rightly point its our strongest squad for years with enough nouce to make most systems work.
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