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Trouncing The Trawlermen

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Author Topic: Trouncing The Trawlermen  (Read 6837 times)
cobbler_rob
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« Reply #160 on: August 13, 2017, 11:38:28 am »

The personnel to play the system presumably means signing "specialists" to play as wing backs? And thereby relegating two of the best full backs in the league to the bench???

Instead of altering the personnel to fit the system, how about altering the system to fit the personnel.

If we are going to sign anybody we need, and have needed since May 2016, to replace the wide midfielders we lost / gave away.

JED and KT at the open forum were insistent that the squad was multi dimensional and could play many different systems. When one person asked about the lack of width in the squad they said we have Hoskins, Waters and Powell. Hoskins is NOT A WINGER. Neither is Billy Waters.

So in a squad of 26 we have one natural wide player and I'm not exactly convinced by him. Meanwhile we have absolutely nobody to play left side. Isn't this exactly the same issue that we had this time twelve months ago?

This is my concern, the squad seems very unbalanced. The budget spent on the 6th central midfielder should've been used on a Holmes / Adams type wide attacking player
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meccanostand
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« Reply #161 on: August 13, 2017, 12:38:18 pm »

Buchanan can't play wing-back again that's for sure. Actually felt sorry for him and worry he'll get injured.

If JED is going to play wing-backs he needs to bring in 3 actual wing-backs asap.


Our go-to formations have to be 4-2-3-1, 4-4-2 or possibly 4-3-3-

4-4-2 from what we have

                   Cornell
Moloney Taylor Pierre  Buchanan
Phillips Kasim Crooks Powell
           Waters  Long


4-2-3-1

                            Cornell
             Phillips Taylor Pierre Buchanan
                        Kasim O'Toole
               Waters   Crooks  Powell
                             Long

4-3-3

                             Cornell
             Phillips Taylor Pierre Smith
                   Kasim O'Toole Crooks
                   Waters  Long Powell/Lojoit.
                             

I'd also try Pierre in a holding midfield position the guy is a beast and will break up play.
                       

                             
                                                     
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Vintage Cobbler
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« Reply #162 on: August 13, 2017, 12:51:32 pm »

There is no way Pierre can or should play in midfield. Nonsense.
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meccanostand
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« Reply #163 on: August 13, 2017, 12:57:32 pm »

just cos you say he can't doesn't make it true. He could play in a CM 3 no problem. You try getting round him.
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BedsCobb
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« Reply #164 on: August 13, 2017, 12:59:51 pm »

Obvious statement really - but in our wish to make sense of what we're seeing (which is not good) we are "going too early" with our conclusions: give it 6 more games and then we'll be in a position to assess Edinburgh and his squad as trends begin to emerge. I can't see us getting into a depressing downward spiral without the Chinese co-owners becoming vocal, however if we teeter along in mediocrity they'll have to stay quiet... one thing the Chinese psyche wants in business is value for money.
Good results in the next 6 games or so will take off any pressure.
If they've paid six million for less than majority shares in a club in a constant state of treading water  due to the lack of foresight, then you must question their phyche?
Are they even in a position to question the Chairman/ majority share holders running of tge club?
Itll be us the supporters who have the first say on any managerial changes, it always is.

I hope our next 2 signings are a quality defensive and attacking  coach  which helps jed get his ideas working.
A lot easier than sacking him and getting another failed and desperate for success manager in.
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Vintage Cobbler
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« Reply #165 on: August 13, 2017, 13:00:39 pm »

meccano - you are dreaming. Square pegs into round holes won't work.
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« Reply #166 on: August 13, 2017, 13:15:56 pm »

I know it's early days. And I know it's a new system. But most of all I know I've heard all this b0llox for many a season. I was never going to play league football. But I played at a good level, and I have watched live professional football at all levels for 47 years now. So I am very confident when I say our lads looked like fish out of the water yesterday. The system and style of play was a poor fit. With no balance on the back foot and even less going forward. Our passing and possession play look so awkward, with hardly any fluidity. None of this anything to do with a lack of experience or familiarity. More a case of square pegs in round holes.

Edinburgh is typical of the type of manager that isn't wrong because he settles for less. He's wrong because he expects too much of them. Wilder developed a system around the players he had. Appealing to their strengths. Edinburgh has a plan, and steadfastly refuses to budge from it, even when it's clear it's not working. His record is poor, because he is too rigid, too fixed.

We have some good players, who have a lot to offer. But the optimism stops there if they are tethered by unimaginative expectations and a lack of creativity. I lost count how many times players looked at the bench yesterday. That says it all for me. Too much control, shows a lack of control.

I agree. Most of the team looked like they were fish out of water yesterday. Unfortunately, the system just doesn't suit us at all and I can't see it changing anytime soon. 4-3-3 everytime for me, with a fluid 3 up top of Long, Waters, Lobjoit, Powell or Bowditch. Playing the big man up front just isn't working, and should only be used as an option from the bench if we're chasing a game and need to go a bit more direct.

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AlistairSlowe
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« Reply #167 on: August 13, 2017, 13:19:09 pm »

That's the biggest issue. The players don't look comfortable. The squad is fine. We could buy more players but he shouldn't need to. He needs to be flexible.
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Vintage Cobbler
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« Reply #168 on: August 13, 2017, 13:24:30 pm »

It seems to me that JED is not showing any flexibility in this thinking.  What we are seeing is a continuation of last season only with different players. No goals in 3 games suggests problems.  Bringing in a few more players with much the same ability will change nothing.
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EssTeeFree
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« Reply #169 on: August 13, 2017, 13:30:47 pm »

I agree. Most of the team looked like they were fish out of water yesterday. Unfortunately, the system just doesn't suit us at all and I can't see it changing anytime soon. 4-3-3 everytime for me, with a fluid 3 up top of Long, Waters, Lobjoit, Powell or Bowditch. Playing the big man up front just isn't working, and should only be used as an option from the bench if we're chasing a game and need to go a bit more direct.

Completely agree with this, the players are good enough but the current system is making the team less than the sum of its parts.

If JED is dead set on 3 centre backs then why not still have a front 3 like you mentioned. It would help the wing backs (especially Buchs) in 2 ways. 1) they would have someone nominally in front of them they could play off and 2) the opposition full backs wouldn't be able to break at will as they'd need to pick up our wider forwards.

How about (when everyone is fit)

Cornell/New Keeper

Any 3 of our central defenders

Maloney Crooks O'Toole Buchs

Waters Long Powell
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« Reply #170 on: August 13, 2017, 13:35:03 pm »

Continuing from my previous post, my 4-3-3 taking into account everyone being fit, would be :-

          Cornell
Moloney  A Taylor  Pierre  Buchs

        JJOT  Foley  Crooks

 Hoskins   Long  Waters

That includes 3 players currently injured, this could be hampering JED at the moment in fairness.



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EssTeeFree
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« Reply #171 on: August 13, 2017, 13:46:11 pm »

That would be my choice except possibly Kasim in for Foley, I think he could be very good in that deeper role with two physical players either side of him. I'd also consider Powell or Bowditch for Hoskins depending on how he is post injury.

Having said that I can't see JED suddenly playing 433 when he's been Diamond/352 man his whole management career but who knows. I think what he's playing now is pretty close to the first choice XI he had in mind....unfortunately
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OldStratfordCobbler
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« Reply #172 on: August 13, 2017, 13:58:18 pm »

Although it's still very early days and it is clear that at the current formation just isn't working, I think JED has to change the system for both the sake of the team and for his own job security. I don't want him to get the sack but I have read on previous posts that he can be very stubborn. He needs to swallow his pride, revaluate and get some results. If this doesn't happen then unfortunately he could be relieved of his duties. I think 10 games is the benchmark. What do others think?
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andycobbler
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« Reply #173 on: August 13, 2017, 14:11:08 pm »

Although it's still very early days and it is clear that at the current formation just isn't working, I think JED has to change the system for both the sake of the team and for his own job security. I don't want him to get the sack but I have read on previous posts that he can be very stubborn. He needs to swallow his pride, revaluate and get some results. If this doesn't happen then unfortunately he could be relieved of his duties. I think 10 games is the benchmark. What do others think?

Good post and I for one agree.
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if you hate peterborough clap your hands and Fxxk off poxford.
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« Reply #174 on: August 13, 2017, 15:43:09 pm »

What we are seeing is a continuation of last season only with different players.

This.

Unfortunately, I'm starting to wonder whether JED is just irredeemably tactically naive. As Vintage and others suggests, the 'diamond' may have become 5-3-2 and the personnel may have changed but the same old limitations are apparent:

1. No genuine width or capacity to get behind teams
2. Relying on long balls to aging target men, at least one of which should surely have left the club by now
3. Poor, mistimed substitutions which fall a long way short of exerting a positive influence on the game
 
His one redeeming feature - which puts him slightly above the truly woeful Rob Page - is that he seems to have a reasonable eye for talent: Crooks, Long, Pierre, Waters and Taylor all look like decent footballers (albeit ones that most lower-league mangers would have known about), and at least it looks like we haven't signed any Kenji-Gorre-esque duds.

The Chinese money has raised expectations and JED's honeymoon period finished a long, long time ago. If things don't improve then I don't think KT will wait as long as people think to make a change.
 
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Boot and shoe
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« Reply #175 on: August 13, 2017, 19:01:40 pm »

I cannot understand why Smith wasn't in either the 16 or starting line up.
He made the difference on the left against QPR and gets behind the opposition back four .
JED has nailed his colours to the wing back system but has not got the players to make full use of the wise positions ( although Phillips tried his very best in this game ) .
In midfield , Crooks needs to sharpen up . He is coasting at the moment and can offer another 25%.
We also need to get more players in advance of the ball . Revell and Rico are totally ineffective in this team .
We have some decent players but JED is not combining them together .
The Chinese won't put up with it and we now have the finances to shoot the guy in charge and replace him .
I hope this doesn't happen but patience will be limited .
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threeinabed
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« Reply #176 on: August 14, 2017, 08:09:52 am »

He made the difference on the left against QPR and gets behind the opposition back four .

In midfield , Crooks needs to sharpen up . He is coasting at the moment and can offer another 25%.

smith didnt make much of a difference, we still lost, and he created nothing.

crooks isnt match fit.
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everbrite
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« Reply #177 on: August 14, 2017, 10:14:29 am »

smith didnt make much of a difference, we still lost, and he created nothing.

crooks isnt match fit.


Smith only on for 20 mins v QPR - if that and possibly more effective than Buchanan.
Only Terry has written a half decent Fleetwood match report but that concentrates mainly on the system and its shortcomings. No decent match report except the Chron which is on the bleak side! Got the impression from radio that we deserved a point!
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« Reply #178 on: August 14, 2017, 11:10:37 am »

A few more games and more of you might realise that our club is only treading water under KT. His managerial appointments underline this, both very low risk dull 'safe' no thrills type of managers.

I saw enough games last season under Jed to know that this season will be no different, he is obviously the type of old school manager who cant or won't adapt to his players, and plays old fashion get it away from our defence and HOPE we nick a goal, boring, boring, boring.

We should sack Jed today IF KT suddenly decides to build our club up and develop it, in that we take a longer term view, we invest in exciting younger players and play an exciting modern brand of football with a young modern type of manager.  If not there is little point in sacking him, as the next one will be the same, safe and boring, like page and Jed.

Sure a few of you are delighted with our start, after all we need to play dull, losing footbal otherwise we might need more seats, which just won't do and we can slip quietly back to League 2 and can claim to be a true football fan as u follow a small, tin pot club.
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unicobbler
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« Reply #179 on: August 14, 2017, 12:32:19 pm »

young modern type of manager. 
Who? Or is this just another post with the same boring rhetoric?

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