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Trouncing The Trawlermen

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Author Topic: Trouncing The Trawlermen  (Read 6878 times)
Irchy cob
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« Reply #140 on: August 12, 2017, 21:57:22 pm »

Thanks for this, some very interesting observations. I didn't hear the interview- was Edinburgh asked about whether there had been any progress in signing the new goalkeeper?

No mate, it seems that the local media have forgotten about the keeper saga - or just given up with boredom and given JED a free ride. Having said that it's becoming less of an issue due to the fact that Cornell has had a few half decent games but it also helps that he is getting the protection of 3 giant centre backs and a back 5 at times. Looking at the keeper situation, I appreciate that it is unlikely that we are going to get him but what is mark bunn doing with his career - back to third choice again today but seemingly happy sitting on a big pile of money.
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Tabasco Kid
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« Reply #141 on: August 12, 2017, 22:00:21 pm »

my argument would be shouldn't he have already brought the right players in close season to work and play the system?
Yes.
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Irchy cob
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« Reply #142 on: August 12, 2017, 22:12:32 pm »

My two-penneth on the goal - it was a big error by McWilliams but there was still plenty to do to score, it was bit of a hot knife through butter. On the finish cole was at full stretch/slightly slipped as he hit it and it wrong footed Cornell. Watching back the 3 saves in quick succession, Pierre really should have gone with his right foot on the second chance which would have given him a better chance of scoring.
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« Reply #143 on: August 13, 2017, 06:25:24 am »

Am I the only one who thought we played quite well and are beginning to get it together but were unlucky to lose?

Nope. I didn't really get a chance to read anything on here after the match yesterday but catching up this morning I'm quite surprised to see such a level of negativity about it. No, it's not quite working but it's only our third game in using a new system and with a lot of new players.

I still have concerns about using wing backs with the personnel we have available, but even allowing for the completely lopsided team layout that gives us I thought we were very good in spells and somewhat unfortunate not to get a result of some sort. And since I rate Fleetwood quite highly, I'd have taken a draw today as a good result, which we'd have got but for a terrible individual error. On that topic, I really felt for McWilliams. A horrible thing to happen to him, especially so soon after coming on but I was pleased to see Pierre and Crooks come over and put an arm around his shoulder before the match had kicked off again.

Mentioning Crooks, after the game I commented that I could see Kasim becoming the crowd's new boo boy, not because he's a bad player but because he sets about doing the simple stuff and does it quietly and efficiently, which is often something that crowds fail to pick up on and view as inactivity (plus he's picked up the poisoned chalice of taking set pieces in Taylor's absence without being quite as good at them). I didn't anticipate it being Crooks instead! I did raise an eyebrow when he was announced as MOM, but mainly because I thought there were better candidates, not because he had a bad game. He was neat and tidy throughout, put himself about and made one absolutely terrific last ditch challenge in the first half. I bet he covered as much if not more of the pitch than anyone else yesterday; just because he has a somewhat languid running style doesn't make him lazy. Some of the comments on here bought to mind some of the early comments about JJOT and look how that turned out.

All in all, yes it's been a disappointing start to the season, but there are signs of improvement and it's certainly not time to hit the panic button just yet.
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« Reply #144 on: August 13, 2017, 06:40:13 am »

Nope. I didn't really get a chance to read anything on here after the match yesterday but catching up this morning I'm quite surprised to see such a level of negativity about it. No, it's not quite working but it's only our third game in using a new system and with a lot of new players.

I still have concerns about using wing backs with the personnel we have available, but even allowing for the completely lopsided team layout that gives us I thought we were very good in spells and somewhat unfortunate not to get a result of some sort. And since I rate Fleetwood quite highly, I'd have taken a draw today as a good result, which we'd have got but for a terrible individual error. On that topic, I really felt for McWilliams. A horrible thing to happen to him, especially so soon after coming on but I was pleased to see Pierre and Crooks come over and put an arm around his shoulder before the match had kicked off again.

Mentioning Crooks, after the game I commented that I could see Kasim becoming the crowd's new boo boy, not because he's a bad player but because he sets about doing the simple stuff and does it quietly and efficiently, which is often something that crowds fail to pick up on and view as inactivity (plus he's picked up the poisoned chalice of taking set pieces in Taylor's absence without being quite as good at them). I didn't anticipate it being Crooks instead! I did raise an eyebrow when he was announced as MOM, but mainly because I thought there were better candidates, not because he had a bad game. He was neat and tidy throughout, put himself about and made one absolutely terrific last ditch challenge in the first half. I bet he covered as much if not more of the pitch than anyone else yesterday; just because he has a somewhat languid running style doesn't make him lazy. Some of the comments on here bought to mind some of the early comments about JJOT and look how that turned out.

All in all, yes it's been a disappointing start to the season, but there are signs of improvement and it's certainly not time to hit the panic button just yet.
Good post!
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Terryfenwickatemyhamster
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« Reply #145 on: August 13, 2017, 07:19:22 am »

I know it's early days. And I know it's a new system. But most of all I know I've heard all this b0llox for many a season. I was never going to play league football. But I played at a good level, and I have watched live professional football at all levels for 47 years now. So I am very confident when I say our lads looked like fish out of the water yesterday. The system and style of play was a poor fit. With no balance on the back foot and even less going forward. Our passing and possession play look so awkward, with hardly any fluidity. None of this anything to do with a lack of experience or familiarity. More a case of square pegs in round holes.

Edinburgh is typical of the type of manager that isn't wrong because he settles for less. He's wrong because he expects too much of them. Wilder developed a system around the players he had. Appealing to their strengths. Edinburgh has a plan, and steadfastly refuses to budge from it, even when it's clear it's not working. His record is poor, because he is too rigid, too fixed.

We have some good players, who have a lot to offer. But the optimism stops there if they are tethered by unimaginative expectations and a lack of creativity. I lost count how many times players looked at the bench yesterday. That says it all for me. Too much control, shows a lack of control.
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« Reply #146 on: August 13, 2017, 08:32:54 am »

I am not in the anti JED brigade (yet) but I don't think we should kid ourselves that yesterday was anything other than poor.  The team played for much of the match like strangers. I fall into the camp who believes the 3-5-2 formation is not helping.  Apart from a period towards the end of the first half we didn't show much going forward. After McWilliams' awful mistake we did absolutely nothing in response.  All in all a very disappointing performance with just a few rays of light from a minority of players. 

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« Reply #147 on: August 13, 2017, 08:54:58 am »

my argument would be shouldn't he have already brought the right players in close season to work and play the system?
I might be wrong but didn't this formation only materialise after the signing of Pierre, I think JED was thinking about going one way, got the extra funds which the changed that and then the availability of Pierre and for some reason it looks as though this made him decide he must shoehorn 3 centre back in the side.
The formation at the moment 5-2-1-2 leaves us far too short in midfield I would much rather see us drop that player in the hole into a more traditional midfield role.
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Irchy cob
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« Reply #148 on: August 13, 2017, 09:03:59 am »

We just completely lost our way as an attacking force in the second half yesterday - what concerned me more than anything was the lack in intensity as the game just drifted.
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claretarmy
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« Reply #149 on: August 13, 2017, 09:24:29 am »

Last season Edinburgh said he wanted to see a better response after conceding a goal. Maybe this was one of the most disappointing things to come out from yesterday, that heads dropped and none of the players could create an opportunity.

I felt during the second half that the goal wasn't going to come, so I think the changes made were needed, but I expected us to go to a 4-4-2 with Phillips on the right of midfield. OK not his position (and JED) may have been criticised for this) but I thought he was having a good game and he could have combined well with Maloney.

At the time I didn't have any issue with the McWilliams addition but in hindsight maybe Taylor for his experience and his delivery for set plays would have been the better option.

Think with a bit of tweaking the formation can work - Smith at LW.


Would also like to see another forward  or Lobjoit given some minutes and still lacking that one player who will make the difference.

Oh and the goalkeeper so that Cornell at least has some proper competition.
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« Reply #150 on: August 13, 2017, 09:46:51 am »

James henighan is saying he wouldn't be surprised to see more movement in the transfer market before the window closes and other people are agreeing saying that he needs to bring in personnel to play this system - my argument would be shouldn't he have already brought the right players in close season to work and play the system?

The personnel to play the system presumably means signing "specialists" to play as wing backs? And thereby relegating two of the best full backs in the league to the bench???

Instead of altering the personnel to fit the system, how about altering the system to fit the personnel.

If we are going to sign anybody we need, and have needed since May 2016, to replace the wide midfielders we lost / gave away.

JED and KT at the open forum were insistent that the squad was multi dimensional and could play many different systems. When one person asked about the lack of width in the squad they said we have Hoskins, Waters and Powell. Hoskins is NOT A WINGER. Neither is Billy Waters.

So in a squad of 26 we have one natural wide player and I'm not exactly convinced by him. Meanwhile we have absolutely nobody to play left side. Isn't this exactly the same issue that we had this time twelve months ago?
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Irchy cob
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« Reply #151 on: August 13, 2017, 09:52:00 am »

The personnel to play the system presumably means signing "specialists" to play as wing backs? And thereby relegating two of the best full backs in the league to the bench???

Instead of altering the personnel to fit the system, how about altering the system to fit the personnel.

If we are going to sign anybody we need, and have needed since May 2016, to replace the wide midfielders we lost / gave away.

JED and KT at the open forum were insistent that the squad was multi dimensional and could play many different systems. When one person asked about the lack of width in the squad they said we have Hoskins, Waters and Powell. Hoskins is NOT A WINGER. Neither is Billy Waters.

So in a squad of 26 we have one natural wide player and I'm not exactly convinced by him. Meanwhile we have absolutely nobody to play left side. Isn't this exactly the same issue that we had this time twelve months ago?

Nail on head.
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Mr. 6fields Owl
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« Reply #152 on: August 13, 2017, 10:06:02 am »

What bothered me the most yesterday was the lack of ambition from the manager when we went a goal down. Poole should have been taken off much earlier and make way for another forward. To put Richards on at 89 mins was a joke, either him of Lobjoit should have been introduced after the goal.

We have only scored 4 competitive goals since March 18th which suggests to me that something is wrong. The way he likes to play out an out strikers in a deeper role ie Waters and Keshi Anderson is plainly not working. He should revert to playing a 442 where most of these players are most comfortable, Dave Buchanan alluded to this in his interview after the game, referring to playing wing back '' Is it my best position, probably not''
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« Reply #153 on: August 13, 2017, 10:15:51 am »

Good & accurate comment from Patmore.  To add - I don't think Moloney will have any difficulty in fitting into a wing back role but Buchanan is all at sea in this role.  Moloney has been very effective over 2 seasons with us as a conventional right back in a 4-4-2 formation. Phillips is also a good right back but not a wing back. If it ain't broke why fix it?
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« Reply #154 on: August 13, 2017, 10:25:50 am »

The quality of the ball going into Fleetwood's penalty area was generally terrible, whether from crosses or set pieces.  Food for thought about playing Matt Taylor wide left in a conventional 4-4-2 line-up.  Or have his legs gone?
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Mr. 6fields Owl
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« Reply #155 on: August 13, 2017, 10:30:00 am »

The quality of the ball going into Fleetwood's penalty area was generally terrible, whether from crosses or set pieces.  Food for thought about playing Matt Taylor wide left in a conventional 4-4-2 line-up.  Or have his legs gone?
I don't know if his legs have gone but his head will have with SMW getting on before him, I'm sure he could have managed 15 mins
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« Reply #156 on: August 13, 2017, 10:41:09 am »

I couldn't understand why McWilliams was brought on. That is not me having the benefit of Dr Hindsight but the fact that McWilliams had an interrupted pre-season.
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« Reply #157 on: August 13, 2017, 11:30:17 am »

Obvious statement really - but in our wish to make sense of what we're seeing (which is not good) we are "going too early" with our conclusions: give it 6 more games and then we'll be in a position to assess Edinburgh and his squad as trends begin to emerge. I can't see us getting into a depressing downward spiral without the Chinese co-owners becoming vocal, however if we teeter along in mediocrity they'll have to stay quiet... one thing the Chinese psyche wants in business is value for money.
Good results in the next 6 games or so will take off any pressure.
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« Reply #158 on: August 13, 2017, 11:36:21 am »

For large periods of play, thought we looked real dangerous yesterday. And on the whole, were probably the better side against a team which we were close to promotion a few months ago. Promising signs, and as fans, we just need some patience for our team to click. O'Toole and Crooks look like they'd be some partnership.
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Irchy cob
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« Reply #159 on: August 13, 2017, 11:37:50 am »

Obvious statement really - but in our wish to make sense of what we're seeing (which is not good) we are "going too early" with our conclusions: give it 6 more games and then we'll be in a position to assess Edinburgh and his squad as trends begin to emerge. I can't see us getting into a depressing downward spiral without the Chinese co-owners becoming vocal, however if we teeter along in mediocrity they'll have to stay quiet... one thing the Chinese psyche wants in business is value for money.
Good results in the next 6 games or so will take off any pressure.

I take your point Steve but looking at the fixture list we could conceivably be still looking for our first point of the season when we play Doncaster at home in September - if this is the case the pressure on JED will be immense. Although charlton are a bit flaky you'd expect them to be strong at home, Peterborough look worryingly strong as an attacking force and I'm already dreading that fixture and then it's Wigan away. The two home fixtures at the start of September - Doncaster and Portsmouth - look the most likely but neither of them are mugs either.
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