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Time for changes before January

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Its_nice_to_michu
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« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2017, 16:28:57 pm »

Spot on mate..... one of the sensible posts i have read..

JFH needs a chance to sign who he feel he needs, if this doesn't work out then he is open to the stick but not before then. 
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« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2017, 16:42:27 pm »

At some point certain people will realise it's the act of changing managers that causes the problems rather than constantly blaming the latest one.
Simply choose one from the merry-go-round of competent managers, stick with him and you get the stability that will attract decent footballers.
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« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2017, 16:50:49 pm »

Can't say I go along with this "he hasn't had a window" theory.......

There have been 15 managerial changes since the transfer window closed. So that's a lot of managers in the same boat as JFH.

Amongst those 15 there have been varying degrees of success, but Jimmy was the first managerial change of the season and has therefore had the longest of all of them to turn things around. The likes of Jack Lester (Chesterfield), Neil Aspin (Port Vale) and Ritchie Wellens (Oldham) seem to have made a better fist of it than Jimmy. Even Steve Lovell at Gillingham has had more success.
Wellens 3 defeats in 16, Lovell 3 defeats in 13, Hasselbaink 10 defeats in 22. Lucketti (Bury) undefeated in 2 games completes the League 1 changes this season.

The most worrying thing for me is that we actually seem to have gone backwards under him.....I'd say that performances now are worse than when he took over. That's just my opinion of course,

I expected more from the players that we signed in the summer, I expected more from JFH than he has delivered.......so now we really are pinning our hopes on him attracting quality in the January window and then moulding the team to get them performing better on a more consistent basis.

Things are not working, personnel are not working, tactics are not working, substitutions during the games are not working.......its a hell of an ask for him to turn things round....can he do it???
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« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2017, 17:27:15 pm »

I’m not defending you at all sir!!  Wink

Hope not  Shocked, but very surprised you support posters who find constructive comment an anathema (to them).
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« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2017, 17:55:10 pm »


can he do it???


That whole post was based on fair observational facts, so at least one person will like it.  Tongue
In terms of the clipped question. All we have is hope and we’re soon going to find out. I still think his ‘fame’ has carried a lot of good will which others wouldn’t have been afforded. Let’s hope he can instigate a Wilderesque turnaround post January. The alternative of additional deadwood doesn’t bare thinking about. No manger could expect to recycle such a large squad, so he definitely needs to get more out of the personnel at his current disposal.
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« Reply #45 on: December 12, 2017, 18:12:01 pm »

Can't say I go along with this "he hasn't had a window" theory.......

There have been 15 managerial changes since the transfer window closed. So that's a lot of managers in the same boat as JFH.

Amongst those 15 there have been varying degrees of success, but Jimmy was the first managerial change of the season and has therefore had the longest of all of them to turn things around. The likes of Jack Lester (Chesterfield), Neil Aspin (Port Vale) and Ritchie Wellens (Oldham) seem to have made a better fist of it than Jimmy. Even Steve Lovell at Gillingham has had more success.
Wellens 3 defeats in 16, Lovell 3 defeats in 13, Hasselbaink 10 defeats in 22. Lucketti (Bury) undefeated in 2 games completes the League 1 changes this season.

The most worrying thing for me is that we actually seem to have gone backwards under him.....I'd say that performances now are worse than when he took over. That's just my opinion of course,

I expected more from the players that we signed in the summer, I expected more from JFH than he has delivered.......so now we really are pinning our hopes on him attracting quality in the January window and then moulding the team to get them performing better on a more consistent basis.

Things are not working, personnel are not working, tactics are not working, substitutions during the games are not working.......its a hell of an ask for him to turn things round....can he do it???
I also agree with your analysis, we should be doing better.
In terms of pure coaching ability and management skill, isn't now the time to be judging JFK before other variables like the January player merry-go-round kicks in?
It's no good having a manager who can attract better players but who is then incapable of making them play football.
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« Reply #46 on: December 12, 2017, 18:30:52 pm »

Instead of moaning on here why don't you all message JFH and KT. Sure they will listen and change things for you all

In fact why are you all moaning?  Soon we will be back where most of you want to be, in League 2 in a crap ground with a chairman who is all talk and waiting for NBC to give him lots of money / land.

Sorry but i dont understand how you lot can moan and whinge about the team and players (all of which changes constantly month after month) yet have no interest in the actual club that you support.

How you are all happy to accept some saviour who is here not to build and develop NTFC unless he can get NBC to pay for it is beyond me. The club is rotten to the core and the Chairman must take the blame for this, which includes the management and players. As i have said many times, if you try to stand still you go backwards, and backwards is where we are going. Every manager has failed here in the last 15 years except for one who turned the dire situation to an advantage, that points to the direction or lack of from the top.



I like reading your posts Random, I like the idea that you're not an apologist for the chairman and his associates, and I agree with a lot of what you say, but on this occasion aren't you directing your angst at the wrong people?!
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« Reply #47 on: December 12, 2017, 18:41:16 pm »

As I’ve said
The only people we need to hear from are the Chinese owners.
They are the people who hold the key to the clubs future
KT needed to secure extra inward investment into the club and he did this thanks to the Chinese.
If the consortium he was part of had enough clout he wouldn’t have had to seek investment.
With all due respect what KT says is irrelevant.
Without the Chinese investors cash there will be no transfer business of any significance.
Where are the reassurances from the people who actually matter/hold the purse strings??
Until they themselves actually come forward and outline THEIR plans for January I’d start to get a little worried.
Mind you they’ve owned the club since August and haven’t made a statement yet!!!
I don’t know about other posters but it doesn’t fill me with confidence,in fact there is a growing realisation that it is filling me with dread.
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« Reply #48 on: December 12, 2017, 19:46:52 pm »

Can't say I go along with this "he hasn't had a window" theory.......

There have been 15 managerial changes since the transfer window closed. So that's a lot of managers in the same boat as JFH.

Amongst those 15 there have been varying degrees of success, but Jimmy was the first managerial change of the season and has therefore had the longest of all of them to turn things around. The likes of Jack Lester (Chesterfield), Neil Aspin (Port Vale) and Ritchie Wellens (Oldham) seem to have made a better fist of it than Jimmy. Even Steve Lovell at Gillingham has had more success.
Wellens 3 defeats in 16, Lovell 3 defeats in 13, Hasselbaink 10 defeats in 22. Lucketti (Bury) undefeated in 2 games completes the League 1 changes this season.

The most worrying thing for me is that we actually seem to have gone backwards under him.....I'd say that performances now are worse than when he took over. That's just my opinion of course,

I expected more from the players that we signed in the summer, I expected more from JFH than he has delivered.......so now we really are pinning our hopes on him attracting quality in the January window and then moulding the team to get them performing better on a more consistent basis.

Things are not working, personnel are not working, tactics are not working, substitutions during the games are not working.......its a hell of an ask for him to turn things round....can he do it???

When you employ someone to do a job, you've got to give them the tools to stand a chance of succeeding. Id argue that in this case, JFH hasn't been given those tools.

Citing other examples of teams experiencing a results 'bounce' under new leadership is rather futile in this case because we too experienced it…2 wins, and a draw from our first 3 games. And it could so easily have been 3 wins given we chucked a 2-0 lead away in the one we drew.

Interesting, and Im not sure how close to the money I am here…but last season under Page we did fairly well when Gorre was playing. Gorre was in most peoples minds our worst player. When he was dropped, we played a slow midfielder in his place and went on a pro-longed terrible run. This time round, step forward Powell. Who had been VERY poor right up until the last 2 or 3 games he played prior to his injury (and ironically he was ripping the Oxford fullback a good 'un when he did get crocked).

Its many peoples views that our current issues could be *solved with just one or two different players in our starting line up. One of those is a pacy winger (Powell), the other is John Joe O'Toole. You take them out of the puzzle and its impossible to make up the jigsaw, and the more times you try the more frustrating it becomes and the remaining pieces are thrown into the air in pure frustration resulting into a capitulation on the pitch.

To add to the above. We have now got to the point (well we did to be fair some time ago) where as soon as we see the team sheet, we know if we stand a chance. As soon as I saw it at Oldham, I predicted a defeat (albeit 2-0), like many I enjoy trying to predict our results but unlike previous seasons I refuse to try until I see the team sheet. Because its become very very easy!

Sc***horpe (cup AND league) is a great example. We were the better team on both occasions UNTIL JJ O'Toole went off. Then we were pretty useless.

Its scary to think that we are so reliant on 2 or 3 players in our squad, but that is the case. When they are not around, it doesn't matter who comes in because the jigsaw cannot be even closely completed. JFH *might well know that (I hope he does!) so its only right to give him the opportunity to fix it come January.

If he doesn't then we will almost certainly be relegated with a huge and expensive squad, and probably a different manager because by mid February the calls for JFH sacking will be too loud for KT to ignore, like they were when JE finally got the boot. But unless we have some pace on the wings, a half decent striker or two and an able keeper to call upon (when Cornell plays we ship the goals in and that cannot be disputed) we will go down….whoever is in charge!
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« Reply #49 on: December 12, 2017, 20:07:26 pm »

So, only good with a winning side? Not a great coach in my mind

My absolute honest opinion - I don't think Alex Ferguson would have us playing much better. You'd struggle to find a squad in the modern football era which only has one recognised winger.

JFH biggest challenge to date is bringing in competent players in positions we desperately need as early in the window as possible. KT's challenge is spending the premium in getting these players in early and avoid auction type situations.
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« Reply #50 on: December 12, 2017, 20:12:58 pm »

Interesting, and Im not sure how close to the money I am here…but last season under Page we did fairly well when Gorre was playing. Gorre was in most peoples minds our worst player. When he was dropped, we played a slow midfielder in his place and went on a pro-longed terrible run. This time round, step forward Powell. Who had been VERY poor right up until the last 2 or 3 games he played prior to his injury (and ironically he was ripping the Oxford fullback a good 'un when he did get crocked).

People really don't appreciate the outlet a pacey winger brings (even when they have no end product). Without Gorre, we had Anderson. Technically very much better, but wasn't able to turn defence into attack or particularly scare a full back which inevitably invites pressure. I noted Revell's and Taylor's performances seemed to dip without Gorre as well.

Every game we now play with 4 or 5 central midfielders playing, is another game it feels like we're starting with 10 men.
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« Reply #51 on: December 12, 2017, 22:23:20 pm »

It’s my view that the chairman is not happy with either the higher paid players or JFH .
KT rarely says anything of any consequence but he has pretty much stated we are massively under performing.
JFH may not have his selection of individuals but we play with no pattern , game plan or consistency . The team changes every week and no one plays in their rightful position . That’s the fault of the management team .
I think KT has ripped into JFH and that’s why he did the interview.
He will be getting a feed from Rico , JJOT and Buchs as well.
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« Reply #52 on: December 12, 2017, 22:37:11 pm »

Can't say I go along with this "he hasn't had a window" theory.......

The most worrying thing for me is that we actually seem to have gone backwards under him.....I'd say that performances now are worse than when he took over. That's just my opinion of course,

Things are not working, personnel are not working, tactics are not working, substitutions during the games are not working.......its a hell of an ask for him to turn things round....can he do it???

Bit of a doomsday scenario but all the same some decent points made. The 'window theory' is I agree bit irrelevant if only because the team have to start improving now. If they do improve then JFH has some sort of basis where to start in regards to recruitment. Regarding your comment on going backwards - if you take the Oxford game as a starting point then we have played poorly since. Mainly due to injuries and perhaps sudden loss of form of key players we have been supremely inconsistent...consistently!! Clearly JFH has to pick a side fit for purpose(The Oxford team) might be a start; but players like Hoskins and Powell are essential to that team. If that team can gel and flourish we might even get out of the bottom 4; its not impossible as even now we are not yet  seriously adrift from those above us. I am not sure if your summary (last sentence) is helpful or even constructive as you don't come up with any suggestions how we get out of this mess. Mind you that's not our job!
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« Reply #53 on: December 12, 2017, 22:51:06 pm »

It’s my view that the chairman is not happy with either the higher paid players or JFH .
KT rarely says anything of any consequence but he has pretty much stated we are massively under performing.
JFH may not have his selection of individuals but we play with no pattern , game plan or consistency . The team changes every week and no one plays in their rightful position . That’s the fault of the management team .
I think KT has ripped into JFH and that’s why he did the interview.
He will be getting a feed from Rico , JJOT and Buchs as well.

Interesting comments but we cant be certain if any of your comments are factual. Just merely your guesswork; unless of course you have a source close to KT?
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« Reply #54 on: December 12, 2017, 23:24:42 pm »

My absolute honest opinion - I don't think Alex Ferguson would have us playing much better. You'd struggle to find a squad in the modern football era which only has one recognised winger.

JFH biggest challenge to date is bringing in competent players in positions we desperately need as early in the window as possible. KT's challenge is spending the premium in getting these players in early and avoid auction type situations.
How about Chris Wilder then, do you not thiink we would have collected significantly more points with this squad under him?
Because if you don't think a manager can affect a teams performance we should cut and run and get Sammo back on a fraction of what JFH must be on.
(We also have Hoskins incidentally to add to Powell. When fit, head down and as an outlet, he's as quick as almost anyone).
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« Reply #55 on: December 13, 2017, 07:21:39 am »

How about Chris Wilder then, do you not thiink we would have collected significantly more points with this squad under him?
Because if you don't think a manager can affect a teams performance we should cut and run and get Sammo back on a fraction of what JFH must be on.
(We also have Hoskins incidentally to add to Powell. When fit, head down and as an outlet, he's as quick as almost anyone).

Agree totally, yes the squad is unbalanced,  yes we have had injuries to key players. But Jimmy gas got very little out of the squad he has and it's clear 80% of them are not playing for him.
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« Reply #56 on: December 13, 2017, 09:38:28 am »

How about Chris Wilder then, do you not thiink we would have collected significantly more points with this squad under him?
Because if you don't think a manager can affect a teams performance we should cut and run and get Sammo back on a fraction of what JFH must be on.
(We also have Hoskins incidentally to add to Powell. When fit, head down and as an outlet, he's as quick as almost anyone).

Wilder only scraped us out of the conference in the last hour of the final match of the season when he inherited a poor squad. And that was with the benefit of bringing in some of his own players, in a much easier league.

Given time to bring in his squad, he took us halfway up the league, and then up as champions.
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« Reply #57 on: December 13, 2017, 10:16:46 am »

Wilder only scraped us out of the conference in the last hour of the final match of the season when he inherited a poor squad. And that was with the benefit of bringing in some of his own players, in a much easier league.

Given time to bring in his squad, he took us halfway up the league, and then up as champions.
I get that you want to give him the benefit of the window however surely you must see that we are easy to beat. We don't score and create too much so surely set up to make us incredibly hard to beat, especially away from home. Martin Smith was on on co-commentary at Oldham and he couldn't believe how much time and space their players had on the ball. I get the players have to take responsibility but good managers get them set up correctly Every point gained could be very important but I'm afraid we are far too easy to score against, for me that's down to the manager.
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« Reply #58 on: December 13, 2017, 11:05:21 am »

People really don't appreciate the outlet a pacey winger brings (even when they have no end product). Without Gorre, we had Anderson. Technically very much better, but wasn't able to turn defence into attack or particularly scare a full back which inevitably invites pressure. I noted Revell's and Taylor's performances seemed to dip without Gorre as well.

Every game we now play with 4 or 5 central midfielders playing, is another game it feels like we're starting with 10 men.

This and Drilling's point about Gorre are spot on in my opinion. I always felt Page's biggest failure was that he didn't coach Gorre more and stick with him, we were simply a better team with his pace. I think we would have stumbled on something with Gorre and Hoskins wide which could have seen us a fairly safe mid-table team and had something to build from.

Wilder only scraped us out of the conference in the last hour of the final match of the season when he inherited a poor squad. And that was with the benefit of bringing in some of his own players, in a much easier league.

Given time to bring in his squad, he took us halfway up the league, and then up as champions.

Same with this point, things only really started to come together for Wilder after he had 3 transfer windows with the Holmes loan signing laying the foundations for the following season. It is crazy to simply surmise that Wilder would do better with this batch of players. If this was universally true then we would have been well safe of relegation towards the end of that season as he'd had the benefit of a window (albeit a rushed one) as well as time with the squad. That's speaking as someone who is a fully paid up member of the Wilder fan club.
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« Reply #59 on: December 13, 2017, 13:05:22 pm »

Have just read the whole thread from start to finish and thought i'd chip in with some of my own thoughts, opinions and answers

No way are we playing worse than we were under JED.

Main difference for me between the two, is that JFH seems to have an idea of what he wants and gives some clear instructions to his team (albeit they aren't always followed). JED seemed to have no ideas and just moaned when people made mistakes but there is no clear guidance and it was just lazy thoughtless football.

Whilst I know Revell is the not the saviour, without him up front i think we lose so much.  His energy, closing down and defending from the front. Holding up the ball and winning a lot in the air. He was an out ball when we had nothing on.  I appreciate when he was up top on his own, much of it was vain, but for the short spell he played with Long it worked. Its no coincidence in my mind. Ill agree that long term we need better strikers than him, but of what we have at the club he would always play for me.

its not just pace on its own we lack, it is the speed in which we can turn defence in to attack.  If it was just pure pace we actually have 3 extremely fast players in the squad in Long, Hanley and Smith.  Powell is quite fast, its just the winger part of him, beat a man and get the ball in the box we are lacking when he isn't there.

Hoskins is not fast.  He just attempts more sprints than others in a game, but he isn't particularly quick.

Someone said ' how have we ended up with only one winger in the squad? ' the answer is easy.  JED was fixed on a 5-3-2  they wouldn't of featured in his plans.

Will JFH succeed, I have no idea. I think i can see what he is trying to achieve and a lot of the players don't fit his style. that is different from saying they aren't good enough for us.  Yes i would of expected more to date from the squad, but i think he deserves the chance to manipulate the quad to be his own and see if it works. JED got that and it absolutely didn't, in fact it got worse with his own players than it did with Pages.

Points made about Gorre are very good, would have him back in the club in a heart beat, but you still need the rest of the team to work to that style.


And the nonsense of ' where would be if Wilder was running this squad'  get over it, he has gone. so has Holmes.
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