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Wigan Athletic (H) 01/01/18

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Ralap
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« Reply #120 on: January 02, 2018, 11:43:19 am »

He is a quality player there is no doubt about that but his set piece delivery yesterday was awful and warrants the 'criticism' of them.
It's also great that he always wants the ball but more often than not it results in him being far too deep when he picks it up, we need his range of passing further upfield.

I haven't heard a lot of criticism directed at him for most of the season, has there been a lot of it?

On social media there has been a lot of late. Round me at the game there was some but mostly about the crossing understandably.
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« Reply #121 on: January 02, 2018, 11:46:39 am »

On social media there has been a lot of late. Round me at the game there was some but mostly about the crossing understandably.

I saw a bit on Twitter after yesterday's match - plus obviously my criticisms  Grin - but hadn't heard or seen much about Grimes either way before that,
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« Reply #122 on: January 02, 2018, 11:57:36 am »

In his defence I really don’t think his most effective position is as a winger.
He didn’t play on the wing yesterday , he was in his favoured central position .
Didn’t pull up any trees though .

As for Grimes - he is a good player and wants the ball .
He needs to hurt teams more though because he has the talent .
For Exeter , he was a goal machine . Maybe we play him too deep .
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« Reply #123 on: January 02, 2018, 12:05:56 pm »

I thought it telling yesterday that Hasselbaink totally ignored Crookes when he was substituted while thanking/congratulating the others substituted. Maybe Hasslebainks man management skills are in need of looking at?
I noticed that and agree that was p*ss poor man management. It doesn't encourage the player much when he gets totally ignored and then sees others getting hand shakes and pats on the back 
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« Reply #124 on: January 02, 2018, 12:20:54 pm »

He didn’t play on the wing yesterday , he was in his favoured central position .
Didn’t pull up any trees though .

As for Grimes - he is a good player and wants the ball .
He needs to hurt teams more though because he has the talent .
For Exeter , he was a goal machine . Maybe we play him too deep .

Goal machine?Huh?? Really??

He scored 1 goal in 35 games in the 2013/14 season, and then 4 goals in 25 games in 2014/15 before securing his move to Swansea.
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« Reply #125 on: January 02, 2018, 12:29:37 pm »

On social media there has been a lot of late. Round me at the game there was some but mostly about the crossing understandably.

Relatively little at the game in the North End of the West. Some grumbles towards end of game after his umpteenth failed corner! His current form is way below the Oxford and Gillingham games. Can do better!
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« Reply #126 on: January 02, 2018, 12:38:02 pm »

I noticed that and agree that was p*ss poor man management. It doesn't encourage the player much when he gets totally ignored and then sees others getting hand shakes and pats on the back 

Personally I've no issue with that, especially with Crooks. Strikes me as a bit of a big time charlie after being at Rangers. (That is not backed up by anything I've seen or heard, just a gut feel)
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« Reply #127 on: January 02, 2018, 12:46:35 pm »

I felt have felt a little sorry for Grimes during his time here. He has played with a ton of different partners in midfield, and has had players out wide to aim for who are not wingers. You can see he is clearly talented (although his set piece delivery was terrible) I think he would benefit massively from playing with John Joe and Mcwilliams in the middle. JFH needs to stop playing JJOT further forward, fine he may win some flick ons but he is not generally a goal threat from open play, the vast majority of his goals from us have been headed goals from set pieces. He is much more effective as a centre midfielder who can break up and link play.

Also I am not against Buchs being dropped. We had the worst defence of the teams in the 92 this calendar year, of which he has probably started every league game so I am fine with Smith having a run. Also Buchs tends to just chip the ball over the opposition RB which generally results in the ball being given away, at least Smith was looking for a pass to feet.

Agree though that we didnt threaten at all. We barely huffed or puffed, we had a lot of opportunity to get shots away on the edge of the box and we didnt pull the trigger for whatever reason. I dont know why we persist in the same substitutions also. Hoskins and Rico coming on is so predictable. Waters might not be good enough for this level but he scored 15 in league 2 last year (probably more that Hoskins has scored in his career to date) so to be left on the bench all the time makes no sense.

I am desperately hoping for lots of new faces out wide and up front in the coming week, but fear its too little too late (especially as I am not sold on JFH).

Not far off my thoughts.
Buchs isn't good enough for League One, thought that for a long while now.  Smith is raw but his speed and balls into the danger areas are good, we just need someone on the end of them.  Moloney is the same, a player who plods around like someone a lot older than his 28 (nearly 29) years, needs replacing.  
Grimes has played well alongside McGugan but needs the protection.  I would go with Crooks and JJOT swapping places, with JJOT dropping to DM and Crooks up supporting Long.
Surprised McWilliams was subbed when Powell had clearly been blowing for about ten minutes prior, Hoskins or Waters on for Powell would have made more sense.
Why we persist in lobbing balls up to Long when his strength is along the floor breaking the defensive back lines like he has done at Oxford, Pompey and yesterday (the chance shaved the far post)?
There were also a number of times when a shot was the best option (e.g. Foley 1st half, JJOT 2nd half) and the player was looking for a pass, that is a sure sign of a lack of confidence and the slagging they might get if they miss.  You'll never score if you don't shoot and if you shoot enough some (at least one) may go in!
Their player got in front of Taylor for their goal but massive concern about who should have prevented the cross, Smith was playing narrow at the time so either Foley or Powell?
Poole was probably a decent centre half at youth level, he hasn't grown or bulked up enough for the big boys and gets muscled and out jumped too often.  He can tackle and appears confident on the ball, maybe when we get our CBs back he might be better option in the DM role but still maybe still too lightweight for the Third Division.
Shaun McWilliams is a gem, I'll be surprised if we are able to hang onto him for too long.  Wigan recognised that when they took it in turns to clatter him during the game.  He must start on Saturday.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 12:55:12 pm by Deepcut Cobbler » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #128 on: January 02, 2018, 12:48:22 pm »

Buchs isn't good enough for League One, thought that for a long while now.  

Radio numpty reckoned he's off - with Sheff U the supposed destination  Grin
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« Reply #129 on: January 02, 2018, 12:53:11 pm »

Radio numpty reckoned he's off - with Sheff U the supposed destination  Grin

We heard that in the car on the way back from the game and burst into fits of laughter. Buchanan is a million miles away from being good enough for them, he's not even good enough for us anymore.
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« Reply #130 on: January 02, 2018, 17:48:12 pm »

A New Year and Everbrite still having a snipe at fellow fans.
Different year same Cecil..
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For goodness sake Doc we are NOT going down  Grin   you heard it here 1st  Wink

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« Reply #131 on: January 02, 2018, 18:24:44 pm »

I do have a little chuckle to myself at games when our fans get upset at opposition 'keepers timewasting, we lapped it up when Adam Smith was at it, he is probably the best (worst?) I've ever seen at the art of timewasting. He got the odd booking but got away with it most of the time.
That's the benefit of being at home. There's more of you to make a noise whenever you feel an injustice with the referee hopefully thinking "Well, if that many people all thought it was a foul/offside/handball/he's taking too long then maybe it is?"
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« Reply #132 on: January 02, 2018, 18:39:57 pm »

I normally try and take the claret tinted specs off and cut the refs a bit of slack (especially as the guy I sit next to each game seems to only go to moan about the ref) but I agree that he was awful...and awfully inconsistent... yesterday. What is and isn't a booking in that guys head I have no idea. However his performance in no way cost us a result.

I do have a little chuckle to myself at games when our fans get upset at opposition 'keepers timewasting, we lapped it up when Adam Smith was at it, he is probably the best (worst?) I've ever seen at the art of timewasting. He got the odd booking but got away with it most of the time.

Its a bit sad that we have to blame the referees!! But it is true that in general standard of refereeing is slipping.

That said, again the players should take a bit of responsibility. Why do they steal 10 yards at every throw? Why do they timewaste? Why do they place the ball outside the corner quadrant if they can get away with it? Why do they appeal for everything even when its plainly obvious it isn't their ball? Why do they "foul" to stop a player getting away and then protest their innocence? Why do players go down at the merest touch?

All of the above examples are cheating.....some call it gamesmanship, some call it professionalism....I call it cheating!! It all needs to be clamped down on. Both teams, all the time.

I laugh at home games....there are a couple of vociferous "anti refs" who sit on the back row of the West who call for everything, slag the ref and linesman off all the time, but conveniently forget when "our team" does exactly the same!!

The Blackburn game Cornell was time wasting...he even had a chuckle about it!! The Wigan game their keeper was taking an age......part and parcel of the game??
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« Reply #133 on: January 02, 2018, 19:45:05 pm »

Goal machine?Huh?? Really??

He scored 1 goal in 35 games in the 2013/14 season, and then 4 goals in 25 games in 2014/15 before securing his move to Swansea.

For us, that's a goal machine.
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« Reply #134 on: January 02, 2018, 20:02:27 pm »

That's the benefit of being at home. There's more of you to make a noise whenever you feel an injustice with the referee hopefully thinking "Well, if that many people all thought it was a foul/offside/handball/he's taking too long then maybe it is?"

Yep I completely get the point of the crowd getting into the refs mind, I was more talking about those that get apoplectic with rage that the opposition keeper walks to the other side of the 6yard box each goal kick. They’re not necessarily shouting at the ref just seething to themselves semi quietly then spending 10 minutes banging on about it, while lapping it up when our keeper does it. They’re going to do themselves in the poor lambs.
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« Reply #135 on: January 02, 2018, 20:08:02 pm »

Its a bit sad that we have to blame the referees!! But it is true that in general standard of refereeing is slipping.

That said, again the players should take a bit of responsibility. Why do they steal 10 yards at every throw? Why do they timewaste? Why do they place the ball outside the corner quadrant if they can get away with it? Why do they appeal for everything even when its plainly obvious it isn't their ball? Why do they "foul" to stop a player getting away and then protest their innocence? Why do players go down at the merest touch?

All of the above examples are cheating.....some call it gamesmanship, some call it professionalism....I call it cheating!! It all needs to be clamped down on. Both teams, all the time.

I laugh at home games....there are a couple of vociferous "anti refs" who sit on the back row of the West who call for everything, slag the ref and linesman off all the time, but conveniently forget when "our team" does exactly the same!!

The Blackburn game Cornell was time wasting...he even had a chuckle about it!! The Wigan game their keeper was taking an age......part and parcel of the game??

Yes we have poor refs but it’s the same ref for both sides. The chap I sit next to in the north bangs on all game every game about where the opposition take throw ins / free kicks from, what they appeal for (for which they are always labelled cheats) but obviously has no problem with our players doing the same. Every defeat is the refs fault, without fail. Every decision is unfair, every booking is unjust. Every infringement by the opposition is met with “our player would be sent off for that”.

We’re all obviously biased but I do worry that some folk genuinely believe we’re the most discriminated team in world football.
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« Reply #136 on: January 02, 2018, 20:28:43 pm »

Yep I completely get the point of the crowd getting into the refs mind, I was more talking about those that get apoplectic with rage that the opposition keeper walks to the other side of the 6yard box each goal kick. They’re not necessarily shouting at the ref just seething to themselves semi quietly then spending 10 minutes banging on about it, while lapping it up when our keeper does it. They’re going to do themselves in the poor lambs.

It could be got rid of at a stroke by the ref simply adding the time on. I don't know why they are so scared to add on plenty of extra time when a team has been time wasting, stupid last minute subs etc. The TV schedule excuse doesn't wash either (not that it applies to our games), there's always at least half an hour of interviews and punditry after the game so there's no damage in cutting into that.
If refs added double the time wasted to a game you would get the great spectacle of a winning side rushing to take goal kicks and throw ins.
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« Reply #137 on: January 02, 2018, 20:35:25 pm »

It could be got rid of at a stroke by the ref simply adding the time on. I don't know why they are so scared to add on plenty of extra time when a team has been time wasting, stupid last minute subs etc. The TV schedule excuse doesn't wash either (not that it applies to our games), there's always at least half an hour of interviews and punditry after the game so there's no damage in cutting into that.
If refs added double the time wasted to a game you would get the great spectacle of a winning side rushing to take goal kicks and throw ins.

I think there was a proposal to have a play clock that is ~30 minutes per half that is only active when the ball is in play but it was generally thought to be a bad idea. It’s a shame, I think this could have been quite effective to get rid of all the attempted time wasting, slow throw ins, restarts and the tedious walk off substitutions.
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« Reply #138 on: January 02, 2018, 22:13:12 pm »

The official on Monday wasn't as biased as some of those here and Monday are expressing. I also wondered why he didn't caution their FB in the 8th minute when he pulled Powell back. Maybe it was in the "too early" category, which I don't agree with, they'll get it from me in the 1st or the 90th if they deserve it.  Grin
I hear crowds shouting down referee decisions all the time and it 'can' have an effect but you never know which way, either for an easier time or to be stubborn against the 'abuse' but all within the interpretation of the Laws. The majority of the time it has little effect.

As GPC has said, the first lesson of refereeing is understanding that all players are cheats, whether it be appealing for a throw they know isn't or diving in the box.  Wink

But there are those who try to influence the decisions that they know have been made correctly, I do it all the time from my seat in the stands when I'm wearing claret, and there are those that shout the abuse/influence convinced that the official has got it wrong when in fact their version of the Laws are different to what is in the book.
If you are going to criticise the official, ensure that you know the Laws and the accepted interpretations first, that helps the blood pressure.
The Pompey official was different, it was only his second game in L1 this season and in front of over 18k he appeared to struggle with his confidence, he will have had better games but that probably wasn't one of them, all referees have them. He'll know that himself, but you could never accuse him of bias, he wasn't particularly good for both teams.  Grin
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« Reply #139 on: January 02, 2018, 22:16:23 pm »

It could be got rid of at a stroke by the ref simply adding the time on. I don't know why they are so scared to add on plenty of extra time when a team has been time wasting, stupid last minute subs etc. The TV schedule excuse doesn't wash either (not that it applies to our games), there's always at least half an hour of interviews and punditry after the game so there's no damage in cutting into that.
If refs added double the time wasted to a game you would get the great spectacle of a winning side rushing to take goal kicks and throw ins.

.................plus teams exhibiting undue sportsmanship.
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