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Wigan Athletic (H) 01/01/18

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barton cobbler
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« Reply #140 on: January 03, 2018, 00:11:15 am »

The official on Monday wasn't as biased as some of those here and Monday are expressing. I also wondered why he didn't caution their FB in the 8th minute when he pulled Powell back. Maybe it was in the "too early" category, which I don't agree with, they'll get it from me in the 1st or the 90th if they deserve it.  Grin
The Pompey official was different, it was only his second game in L1 this season and in front of over 18k he appeared to struggle with his confidence, he will have had better games but that probably wasn't one of them, all referees have them. He'll know that himself, but you could never accuse him of bias, he wasn't particularly good for both teams.  Grin
All I ask for is consistency, we have had quite a few bookings for kicking the ball away this season and quite rightly, but the number of times I've seem opposition players  and players on TV games do it and not get even spoken to, let alone  a booking really annoys  me. The ref yesterday had the attitude of "Wigan are top of the League so they won't do anything wrong, Northampton are at the bottom so they will be kicking seven lumps out of anything that moves" it stood out a mile
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« Reply #141 on: January 03, 2018, 00:36:26 am »

All I ask for is consistency, we have had quite a few bookings for kicking the ball away this season and quite rightly, but the number of times I've seem opposition players  and players on TV games do it and not get even spoken to, let alone  a booking really annoys  me. The ref yesterday had the attitude of "Wigan are top of the League so they won't do anything wrong, Northampton are at the bottom so they will be kicking seven lumps out of anything that moves" it stood out a mile

I'll help you to remove your claret specs on Saturday...  Grin
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« Reply #142 on: January 03, 2018, 09:51:40 am »

Surely it's part and parcel of football to put pressure on the ref?

I know I have Claret specs on at a match no matter how hard I try but not everytime I grumble is it directed at the officials.
There are plenty of times its been a grumble at one of our players for committing a stupid foul which is probably perceived as a grumble at the ref.

That said, the ref on monday was awful, that early fould on Powell was followed a few minutes later by another foul by their number 26, if the first one was in the 'too early to book' camp then the second one wasn't.
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« Reply #143 on: January 03, 2018, 11:52:59 am »

All I ask for is consistency, we have had quite a few bookings for kicking the ball away this season and quite rightly, but the number of times I've seem opposition players  and players on TV games do it and not get even spoken to, let alone  a booking really annoys  me. The ref yesterday had the attitude of "Wigan are top of the League so they won't do anything wrong, Northampton are at the bottom so they will be kicking seven lumps out of anything that moves" it stood out a mile

I've got to say this is how I saw it. The last time I felt a ref was BIASED was years ago. And I mean that.

He should have booked 5, maybe 6 of their players. He booked 1. He also booked Crooks for a nothing challenge, unless it was for verbals?

There was one instance in the 2nd half when one of their players climbed onto Crooks and sat on his head…3 seconds later and an innocuous challenge from one of our players, Wigan free kick. Unbelievable Jeff!

In the 2nd half, he actually gave us a free kick. Around 2 seconds after he had blown his whistle the Wigan player smashed it 50 yards up the pitch. Didn't even speak with him. JJ got sent off (2nd booking) last season for not having the time to breath, Crooks (rightly) got sent off at Southend (2nd booking). Why didn't the Wigan player get booked, far more obvious than either of those two!

'The too early' thing that Deepcut mentions, exactly what i said at the time. What a load of rubbish that is!



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« Reply #144 on: January 03, 2018, 12:17:06 pm »

I've got to say this is how I saw it. The last time I felt a ref was BIASED was years ago. And I mean that.

He should have booked 5, maybe 6 of their players. He booked 1. He also booked Crooks for a nothing challenge, unless it was for verbals?

There was one instance in the 2nd half when one of their players climbed onto Crooks and sat on his head…3 seconds later and an innocuous challenge from one of our players, Wigan free kick. Unbelievable Jeff!

In the 2nd half, he actually gave us a free kick. Around 2 seconds after he had blown his whistle the Wigan player smashed it 50 yards up the pitch. Didn't even speak with him. JJ got sent off (2nd booking) last season for not having the time to breath, Crooks (rightly) got sent off at Southend (2nd booking). Why didn't the Wigan player get booked, far more obvious than either of those two!

'The too early' thing that Deepcut mentions, exactly what i said at the time. What a load of rubbish that is!




I agree, I don’t find any of the refs biased to or for us. I just find the vast majority of them inconsistent or just not very good. Then a fair few just whistle happy power freaks.

Having said that, the footballers we have seen this season both for us and against haven’t been much better!!
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« Reply #145 on: January 03, 2018, 12:29:46 pm »

Just to balance the too early discussion - whilst clearly if the offense warrants a yellow that’s what should be given be it the 1st or the 90th minute - however the better refs tend to sus out the tempo of the game early on as to is it necessary to stamp authority early. They also have a totting up system for persistent minor offenses before they finally reach for the yellow and you can see them explaining - “there, there and now it’s yellow” - probably for JJOT a good thing or he would see many more early baths!
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« Reply #146 on: January 03, 2018, 13:16:59 pm »

Just to balance the too early discussion - whilst clearly if the offense warrants a yellow that’s what should be given be it the 1st or the 90th minute - however the better refs tend to sus out the tempo of the game early on as to is it necessary to stamp authority early. They also have a totting up system for persistent minor offenses before they finally reach for the yellow and you can see them explaining - “there, there and now it’s yellow” - probably for JJOT a good thing or he would see many more early baths!

I agree with this regarding sussing then tempo and also totting up.

On the flip side of that, the amount of subs that come on and then get booked for their first foul in the game is ridulous, when the same fouls frequently occur in the first half without bookings.
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« Reply #147 on: January 03, 2018, 15:08:07 pm »

If you are going to criticise the official, ensure that you know the Laws and the accepted interpretations first, that helps the blood pressure.

DC, what was your take on the incident towards the west and north stand ten yards or so outside the box when our player (Foley?) went to ground under a challenge and in doing so prevented/made it difficult for the Wigan player from getting to the ball?
The ref blew for a foul against us which sent several close to me into apoplectic rage in the North, which I found funny.
It was difficult to see if any foul had been committed against Foley initially but he clearly impeded (intentional or not) the Wigan player from getting to the loose ball.
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« Reply #148 on: January 03, 2018, 15:35:17 pm »

DC, what was your take on the incident towards the west and north stand ten yards or so outside the box when our player (Foley?) went to ground under a challenge and in doing so prevented/made it difficult for the Wigan player from getting to the ball?
The ref blew for a foul against us which sent several close to me into apoplectic rage in the North, which I found funny.
It was difficult to see if any foul had been committed against Foley initially but he clearly impeded (intentional or not) the Wigan player from getting to the loose ball.

That was right in front of me.  Foley wasn't fouled but when he went down he actually grabbed/tapped the Wigan players ankle with his hand and brought him down. A good spot by the official, who was on the blindside of the incident.
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« Reply #149 on: January 03, 2018, 15:50:17 pm »


'The too early' thing that Deepcut mentions, exactly what I said at the time. What a load of rubbish that is!


I agree, if it's a 50/50 and it's early you defer to not cautioning because it then sets a low threshold for later in the game however if it's a mandatory caution, like this because it was "interfering with or breaking up a promising attack", it's never too early.
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« Reply #150 on: January 03, 2018, 17:03:11 pm »

That was right in front of me.  Foley wasn't fouled but when he went down he actually grabbed/tapped the Wigan players ankle with his hand and brought him down. A good spot by the official, who was on the blindside of the incident.
That's where you had the advantage, I was blindside so didn't realize Foley had tapped his ankle but it was obvious that the Wigan player had been impeded.
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« Reply #151 on: January 04, 2018, 00:18:03 am »

I'll help you to remove your claret specs on Saturday...  Grin
Hey Rim, did I see Wigan taking a free kick from the wrong place and with a moving ball only for us to have to retake a free kick because the ref wasn't ready?
 Another one tonight on TV, booted the ball miles after a free kick was given against him, not a word from the man in black, just need a bit of consistency  Wink
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« Reply #152 on: January 04, 2018, 11:20:56 am »

Hey Rim, did I see Wigan taking a free kick from the wrong place and with a moving ball only for us to have to retake a free kick because the ref wasn't ready?
 Another one tonight on TV, booted the ball miles after a free kick was given against him, not a word from the man in black, just need a bit of consistency  Wink

If it's the one that I recall, it was in the Wigan half, within a distance that wouldn't have a major impact, although for a moving ball it's at the discretion of the official to manage in allowing the game to flow. I normally pull it back if it's obvious but you get whinges either way, so damned if you do and damned if you don't.  For a free kick in the attacking half where the correct ball placement is critical you will very rarely, if at all, see that.
Having to re-take a free kick is normally because the official has decided to either issue a caution or formally speak to the player and that process hasn't been completed.

I saw the kicking away tonight, although it appeared that the official didn't speak to the player, he did enough verbally and by indication to the player that he wasn't to do that again or he would be sanctioned the next time.  Doing this at a distance is a useful method of relaying that message to all players because it is loud and/or visual enough for all to see/note.  The next one who does it, irrespective of who, will receive the caution.  (That may have been the case when JJOT was sent off).
If a team is one up (or hanging on for an away draw) with about ten minutes to go I normally have an in-game chat with the captain to warn him that any player overtly wasting time will be cautioned and for him to warn his players.  There is no excuse then.
There is a lot of talking between officials and players during the game, even whilst the ball is in play so although it may appear to the crowd that a player/team hasn't been pulled up for an offence, he/they will have got the message either individually or through their captain.

Similarly, the crowd who complain that an official has given a decision that he could never have seen in a million years, the headsets the four officials wear are an excellent tool for relaying and agreeing decisions without bringing the decision maker to the attention of the crowd.  It is much better that the man in the middle takes the flack (moving target) rather than an AR or 4O who is relatively static on the touchline with a hostile crowd behind them! Having experienced that, it isn't a good position to be in however correct your decision has been...

I would argue that there is a good level of consistency, it's just that it isn't always overtly demonstrated.
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« Reply #153 on: January 04, 2018, 11:35:19 am »

If it's the one that I recall, it was in the Wigan half, within a distance that wouldn't have a major impact, although for a moving ball it's at the discretion of the official to manage in allowing the game to flow. I normally pull it back if it's obvious but you get whinges either way, so damned if you do and damned if you don't.  For a free kick in the attacking half where the correct ball placement is critical you will very rarely, if at all, see that.
Having to re-take a free kick is normally because the official has decided to either issue a caution or formally speak to the player and that process hasn't been completed.

I saw the kicking away tonight, although it appeared that the official didn't speak to the player, he did enough verbally and by indication to the player that he wasn't to do that again or he would be sanctioned the next time.  Doing this at a distance is a useful method of relaying that message to all players because it is loud and/or visual enough for all to see/note.  The next one who does it, irrespective of who, will receive the caution.  (That may have been the case when JJOT was sent off).
If a team is one up (or hanging on for an away draw) with about ten minutes to go I normally have an in-game chat with the captain to warn him that any player overtly wasting time will be cautioned and for him to warn his players.  There is no excuse then.
There is a lot of talking between officials and players during the game, even whilst the ball is in play so although it may appear to the crowd that a player/team hasn't been pulled up for an offence, he/they will have got the message either individually or through their captain.

Similarly, the crowd who complain that an official has given a decision that he could never have seen in a million years, the headsets the four officials wear are an excellent tool for relaying and agreeing decisions without bringing the decision maker to the attention of the crowd.  It is much better that the man in the middle takes the flack (moving target) rather than an AR or 4O who is relatively static on the touchline with a hostile crowd behind them! Having experienced that, it isn't a good position to be in however correct your decision has been...

I would argue that there is a good level of consistency, it's just that it isn't always overtly demonstrated.
I can now see the problem, we should have you reffing us instead of all the t*ssers the Football League keep sending !   Grin

 
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« Reply #154 on: January 04, 2018, 20:49:47 pm »

I can now see the problem, we should have you reffing us instead of all the t*ssers the Football League keep sending !   Grin

 

 Grin
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« Reply #155 on: January 04, 2018, 20:55:58 pm »

Why is it that the linos running east stand side are much better than the muppets that ply a balding and usually way behind the play trade down the west?

That's what I wan't to know?
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« Reply #156 on: January 04, 2018, 21:05:35 pm »

Why is it that the linos running east stand side are much better than the muppets that ply a balding and usually way behind the play trade down the west?

That's what I wan't to know?

Franks back chaps; happy days are here again! Mums relented Cool
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« Reply #157 on: January 04, 2018, 21:34:08 pm »

Franks back chaps; happy days are here again! Mums relented Cool

Yes, thanks for talking her round dad  Wink
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