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JIMMY OUT!

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Author Topic: JIMMY OUT!  (Read 33325 times)
Madrid Cobbler
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« Reply #1220 on: May 08, 2018, 11:11:22 am »

I'm quite surprised at the lack of blame those twats have received for their part in our relegation. Completely downed tools for two managers and should be embarrassed to even turn up for an awards night let alone accept any.

I don't think it's just a question of attitude from the players. Obviously they weren't motivated by JFH nor JED towards the end of their tenures and that will always be reflected to some extent in the passion shown on the pitch, but to me that's not enough to explain the HUGE difference in committment between  the JFH and the DA teams.

I think in this case that JFH's constant tinkering and poor and confusing tactics limited players so much in their freedom of movement on the pitch that it actually made them look like they weren't trying. DA has said that they are a good bunch in terms of attitude and he doesn't strike me as one to say that for the sake of it.

In short, I blame this relegation almost entirely on JFH and agree he is probably one of the worst managers we've ever had.
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DrillingCobbler
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« Reply #1221 on: May 08, 2018, 12:07:25 pm »

I don't think it's just a question of attitude from the players. Obviously they weren't motivated by JFH nor JED towards the end of their tenures and that will always be reflected to some extent in the passion shown on the pitch, but to me that's not enough to explain the HUGE difference in committment between  the JFH and the DA teams.

I think in this case that JFH's constant tinkering and poor and confusing tactics limited players so much in their freedom of movement on the pitch that it actually made them look like they weren't trying. DA has said that they are a good bunch in terms of attitude and he doesn't strike me as one to say that for the sake of it.

In short, I blame this relegation almost entirely on JFH and agree he is probably one of the worst managers we've ever had.

Its difficult to disagree with this BUT I can't help but think that Grimes (particularly when he was on 9 yellows), Van Veen, Long at times, Pierra (definitely) to name but a few could have 'tried harder'. A football team cannot carry 2 or 3 players, and in many months this season we've been carrying a fair few. Bunney for instance I will excuse…totally out of position, confidence was shot to bits because of it etc. But I've seen too many players failing to tackle this season or challenge for the ball and confusion over tactics/roles is not an excuse for that. DA has been sensible about it, he's lifted them back up and ensured that they put in the effort for him. Thats basic management. I wouldn't be inclined to give those players a second chance though and to be fair other than VV the ones involved that Id consider 'fair weather players' are all out of contract/already left/were on loan.
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unicobbler
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« Reply #1222 on: May 08, 2018, 14:31:02 pm »

I've played for good managers and I've played for bad managers. I've won leagues and I've been relegated. I always went into games with a desire to win and to play to my full potential.

Under a good manager when things aren't going well either as an individual or a team you have confidence the manager can influence the game some how so you get an extra level of motivation because you believe it will get better. When you have a poor manager you don't have the extra level of belief or motivation so its almost impossible to keep battling. Then when the manager makes a change that is as crazy as some of the ones we have seen this season it deflates you.
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Madrid Cobbler
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« Reply #1223 on: May 09, 2018, 12:48:51 pm »

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Grimes wasn't specifically instructed not to go for any 50-50 balls when on 9 yellow cards, as he was clearly one of JFH's favourites. It certainly looked that way and supports the idea that it was not just player demotivation that caused apparent lack of effort.
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« Reply #1224 on: May 09, 2018, 12:50:17 pm »

Change "wasn't instructed" for "was instructed"  Grin
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DrillingCobbler
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« Reply #1225 on: May 09, 2018, 13:54:42 pm »

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Grimes wasn't specifically instructed not to go for any 50-50 balls when on 9 yellow cards, as he was clearly one of JFH's favourites. It certainly looked that way and supports the idea that it was not just player demotivation that caused apparent lack of effort.

Quite possible. However, he definitely didn't try with his corners. If he'd kicked the ball just a little bit harder he might have occasionally beaten the first man.
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cobblerwatch
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« Reply #1226 on: May 09, 2018, 21:13:55 pm »

Quite possible. However, he definitely didn't try with his corners. If he'd kicked the ball just a little bit harder he might have occasionally beaten the first man.

I disagree - his corners were generally poor but I fail to see how he could try harder which implies he was deliver settling for that level - I never understood why he always had to be our deadball man because with the exception of a couple of excellent pens there were very few free kicks and virtually no corners that suggested he should be the chosen one.
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« Reply #1227 on: May 09, 2018, 21:16:27 pm »

I disagree - his corners were generally poor but I fail to see how he could try harder which implies he was deliver settling for that level - I never understood why he always had to be our deadball man because with the exception of a couple of excellent pens there were very few free kicks and virtually no corners that suggested he should be the chosen one.

He actually shared duty with McGugan when we had him. But took on sole responsibility before and after he left.

By default of all 3 managers choosing him to take them shows everyone else in the squad is worse at set pieces. Either this, or our managers deliberately sabotaged our set pieces?
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cobblerwatch
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« Reply #1228 on: May 10, 2018, 07:41:32 am »

He actually shared duty with McGugan when we had him. But took on sole responsibility before and after he left.

By default of all 3 managers choosing him to take them shows everyone else in the squad is worse at set pieces. Either this, or our managers deliberately sabotaged our set pieces?

Or a 3rd option perhaps was that all 3 managers were not very good at knowing their squads talents - whilst his legs had certainly gone I guess we were spoilt with Matt Taylor in that department (free kicks rather than corners) - I know it’s a different skill but watching some of McWilliams long passes to players feet I do wonder if he could have some ability here.
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« Reply #1229 on: May 10, 2018, 07:49:48 am »

I disagree - his corners were generally poor but I fail to see how he could try harder which implies he was deliver settling for that level - I never understood why he always had to be our deadball man because with the exception of a couple of excellent pens there were very few free kicks and virtually no corners that suggested he should be the chosen one.


To be fair to Grimes I think the corners were designed to skim over the first player's head which would get into the six yard box at an uncomfortable height for the keeper and defence. JJOT has scored a few from these types but you've only got to be a little out and it does look poor. Simply lobbing balls onto the penalty area are going to be routinely dealt with by the keeper at this level.
The idea that a professional footballer can't sufficiently lift a ball for a corner is a bit daft.
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« Reply #1230 on: May 10, 2018, 08:02:37 am »


To be fair to Grimes I think the corners were designed to skim over the first player's head which would get into the six yard box at an uncomfortable height for the keeper and defence. JJOT has scored a few from these types but you've only got to be a little out and it does look poor. Simply lobbing balls onto the penalty area are going to be routinely dealt with by the keeper at this level.
The idea that a professional footballer can't sufficiently lift a ball for a corner is a bit daft.


At P@@h, following six decent corners, his seventh hit the first man and was greeted with the usual groans and moans totally forgetting the previous six.
All about the blinkered perception I suppose ...  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #1231 on: May 10, 2018, 10:01:10 am »

I still couldn't work out why Grimes took the corners from the left, surely there was a right footed player who could swing them in from that side, it's not difficult.
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« Reply #1232 on: May 10, 2018, 10:14:01 am »

At P@@h, following six decent corners, his seventh hit the first man and was greeted with the usual groans and moans totally forgetting the previous six.
All about the blinkered perception I suppose ...  Roll Eyes

100% correct

standard fickleness from cobblers fans
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« Reply #1233 on: May 10, 2018, 15:28:08 pm »

Wasn't there a very good article posted on here not so long ago that outlined why corners are pretty hard to take effectively?
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« Reply #1234 on: May 10, 2018, 15:38:21 pm »

Wasn't there a very good article posted on here not so long ago that outlined why corners are pretty hard to take effectively?

Yeah, it's a worthwhile read if you like reading why players do certain things.

Basically, the most successful way to score is hitting the corner just above the first man (effectively making the first man a marker point). Simply aiming for the penalty spot isn't effective in the modern game any more, so set piece takers have to ignore the fans frustrations and continue what they're doing for the benefit of the team.

At the very peak level of the game, corner 'specialists' will continually hit the first man.
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« Reply #1235 on: May 10, 2018, 19:33:46 pm »

Wasn't there a very good article posted on here not so long ago that outlined why corners are pretty hard to take effectively?

Maybe at the top level but I’d rather someone hit it somewhere in the box 8 times out of 10 than the ‘optimum’ spot 1 out of 10. There’s a big place for science and analysis in modern football but sometimes it is over complicated.
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« Reply #1236 on: May 10, 2018, 20:07:08 pm »

Maybe at the top level but I’d rather someone hit it somewhere in the box 8 times out of 10 than the ‘optimum’ spot 1 out of 10. There’s a big place for science and analysis in modern football but sometimes it is over complicated.
Completely agree with this. Chris Wilder said at the LMA (I think) awards last year that 'old school is the new new school' or words to that affect. I get the same feeling about DA with regards to the simple side of football
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alton
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« Reply #1237 on: May 10, 2018, 22:06:04 pm »

Maybe at the top level but I’d rather someone hit it somewhere in the box 8 times out of 10 than the ‘optimum’ spot 1 out of 10. There’s a big place for science and analysis in modern football but sometimes it is over complicated.

I wouldn't worry too much, analysis shows only around 3% of corners result in goals and that includes scrambles etc.
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Madrid Cobbler
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« Reply #1238 on: May 13, 2018, 11:29:04 am »

Maybe at the top level but I’d rather someone hit it somewhere in the box 8 times out of 10 than the ‘optimum’ spot 1 out of 10. There’s a big place for science and analysis in modern football but sometimes it is over complicated.

Absolutely. JFH is living proof of this. Apparently he worked very hard and analysed a lot but neither team nor fans seemed to know what he was trying to do.
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Joes Sweet Left Foot
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« Reply #1239 on: May 13, 2018, 12:53:01 pm »

I wouldn't worry too much, analysis shows only around 3% of corners result in goals and that includes scrambles etc.

Interesting stat that appears to be backed up by evidence. I wonder what percentage of corners result in a breakaway goal for the defending team. Although to do that you usually have to keep at least one man up.
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