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Dean Austin

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« Reply #140 on: April 15, 2018, 20:55:19 pm »

..... 3 years my arse!  Grin

I bid 2 years.  But, as it's for charity, if I win, can you put it back in the draw, please?
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« Reply #141 on: April 15, 2018, 21:24:43 pm »

That's cute, considering Man City are bankrolled by one of the richest countries on the planet.
Emmmmm their really not, unless Man City are owned by the US, China, Japan, Germany or the UK.
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« Reply #142 on: April 15, 2018, 21:37:30 pm »

I believe you may have missed the barn door......

Not Yours tho' Roll Eyes
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« Reply #143 on: April 15, 2018, 21:42:43 pm »

Emmmmm their really not, unless Man City are owned by the US, China, Japan, Germany or the UK.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-richest-countries-in-the-world-2017-3

Depends how it's ranked. Qatar top this list.
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« Reply #144 on: April 15, 2018, 22:29:19 pm »

Not Yours tho' Roll Eyes

Apparently not.  But, thank you for publicising Fez's post, which everyone seems to have ignored.

Is it self-importance that gets in the way, I wonder?
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« Reply #145 on: April 15, 2018, 22:30:34 pm »


LOL.........

Do you know how the UK's GDP is calculated?
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« Reply #146 on: April 15, 2018, 22:57:30 pm »

LOL.........

Do you know how the UK's GDP is calculated?

It's not really relevant to the point. I just happened to find it odd someone tried to deny Qatar being a wealthy country considering that's what it's notorious for.

Great place and well worth the visit.
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« Reply #147 on: April 15, 2018, 23:00:12 pm »

Ok, lets put the myth that keeping your manger for a lengthy period is the way to success!

Championship:

1. Wolves - 318 days
2. Cardiff - 1 year, 191 days
3. Fulham - 2 years, 108 days
4. Aston Villa - 1 year, 184 days
5. Middlesbrough - 109 days
6. Millwall - 3 years, 35 days

League1:

1. Wigan - 318 days
2. Blackburn - 1 year, 51 days
3. Shrewsbury - 1 year, 172 days
4. Rotherham - 1 year, 137 days
5. Sc***horpe - 19 days
6. Plymouth - 2 years, 307 days

I can't be assed to do loads of other leagues, dinners ready. 3 years my arse!  Grin
There are currently only 15 managers in the entire 4 divisions of the league who have managed longer than 3 years. At Arsenal, Exeter, Morecambe, Wycombe, Wimbledon, Bournemouth, Burnley, Rochdale, Bristol Rovers, Tottenham, Accrington, Carlisle, Brighton, Millwall, Cheltenham (yes, our old friend Gary Johnson). Forgetting league positions in terms of Premiership, Championship etc, the balanced view would be to also consider the impact of stability on these clubs along with the aforementioned lists of the previous post? 6 Currently play in league 2, 4 of which have not experienced promotion under the current manager. Of the 9 remaining sides, 7 have achieved promotion with the 2 remaining being Arsenal and Tottenham. 6 currently occupy a promotion, play off or European Place with one in a relegation place. 4 (+25%) namely Morecambe, Cheltenham, Wimbledon and Rochdale are arguably not in an enviable position?
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« Reply #148 on: April 15, 2018, 23:02:15 pm »

It's not really relevant to the point. I just happened to find it odd someone tried to deny Qatar being a wealthy country considering that's what it's notorious for.

Great place and well worth the visit.
But that's the point it's not one of the richest countries.
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« Reply #149 on: April 15, 2018, 23:03:09 pm »

But that's the point it's not one of the richest countries.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=list+of+richest+countries&rlz=1C1CHFX_en-GBGB532GB532&oq=list+of+richest+coun&aqs=chrome.0.0l2j69i57j0l3.4672j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

And more to the point, Man City's defence cost more than most countries defence budget  Shocked Grin
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« Reply #150 on: April 15, 2018, 23:07:59 pm »

 Grin that's because it's done by capita, Qatar has about 2 men and a dog living their so their wealth per capita is more, the actual wealth of the country isn't that high.
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« Reply #151 on: April 16, 2018, 00:28:05 am »

Grin that's because it's done by capita, Qatar has about 2 men and a dog living their so their wealth per capita is more, the actual wealth of the country isn't that high.

....and, a little bit more.

Now, this is a good debate.

FFP rules determine how much money a club has to spend on its team.  So, the argument "Oh, it's because xyz money, blah, blah, blah" is meaningless.

The richest club in the World is...... Huh???   Manchester United.  Who lost at home to WBA at the week-end.  Man U. playing the drabbest football ever, given the opposition.  WBA are relegated because they are s***e - yet, suddenly, against Man U., they play like wolves.  Why, because somewhere (new manager bounce maybe) they have played to win.

Why?  Because all this s***e about "Oooooh, give a Manager 73 years years and they might just manage to find a winning combination" is what it is......   It is s***e.  The posters that come up with this s***ty-s***e will spend a few days pondering over the instant posts of others, then pontificate....... and come up with a wordy, but, meaningless conglomerate of wordiness that matches the inertia in which they live.

A few words to the "wise"/  The world moves very quickly.  In 24 hours, if you stare upwards, you will have seen every part of the Universe, except your own arrrrrs.  Why not look upwards for a while?



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« Reply #152 on: April 16, 2018, 01:22:43 am »

Ok, my point is that if a team is doing well then the manager wont have to make any changes - 'if it ain't broke why fix it?' and all that. This inevitably leads people to believe that it's the fact that it's a settled side that's getting results whereas I'm suggesting it's the good results that leads to a settled side.

I did jump ahead a bit and my suggestion is if you want a settled side that are getting good results then the best way to achieve this is to give a manager the opportunity to build his own squad. JFH, JE and RP all had to accommodate players they did not bring to the club and were forced to fit them into their way of working. It's telling that Wilder's success was in his third season and I suspect the majority of players were those he either brought in or gave extended contracts. If we give a manager the three years we always offer at the start not only will we stop wasting valuable money on paying up contracts but I reckon we will get the results we are craving.

So you are suggesting that in his third year JFH would have led us to the Conference title, right?
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« Reply #153 on: April 16, 2018, 09:22:24 am »

FFP rules determine how much money a club has to spend on its team.  So, the argument "Oh, it's because xyz money, blah, blah, blah" is meaningless.

The richest club in the World is...... Huh???   Manchester United.  Who lost at home to WBA at the week-end.  Man U. playing the drabbest football ever, given the opposition.  WBA are relegated because they are s***e - yet, suddenly, against Man U., they play like wolves.  Why, because somewhere (new manager bounce maybe) they have played to win.

To be fair, Man United are second. Man City, PSG, Barcelona have all spent the most in their respective leagues and are all league champions... so it's hardly meaningless.

WBA won with barely any possession, less shots on goal - but that's football, and that's why we'll be at Sixfields on Saturday thinking we can beat Plymouth.
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« Reply #154 on: April 16, 2018, 10:47:27 am »

So you are suggesting that in his third year JFH would have led us to the Conference title, right?
I don't think he's really suggesting that. I'm in agreement with Alton when he advocates that chopping and changing manager isn't really the answer - but you shouldn't really stick with a failing one for any longer than is necessary. By the same token that he (quite rightly) states that it it good results that keep a settled team, rather than a settled team ensuring good results, it's the same with long serving managers - A good manager will be able to stay 3 years, but a manager staying 3 years won't magically become a good one.

A manager who can continue to motivate and encourage the players (which Page and JFH couldn't really do) and can recruit a side (which JFH and JE didn't look capable of) is the main thing you need. Do I think Austin can do that? I'm not so sure he can - but it's not really my opinion that counts, it's KT's. And to be fair, KT doesn't have a great track record in this area. But is he inept or just unlucky so far with managers?
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« Reply #155 on: April 16, 2018, 14:52:12 pm »

There are currently only 15 managers in the entire 4 divisions of the league who have managed longer than 3 years. At Arsenal, Exeter, Morecambe, Wycombe, Wimbledon, Bournemouth, Burnley, Rochdale, Bristol Rovers, Tottenham, Accrington, Carlisle, Brighton, Millwall, Cheltenham (yes, our old friend Gary Johnson). Forgetting league positions in terms of Premiership, Championship etc, the balanced view would be to also consider the impact of stability on these clubs along with the aforementioned lists of the previous post? 6 Currently play in league 2, 4 of which have not experienced promotion under the current manager. Of the 9 remaining sides, 7 have achieved promotion with the 2 remaining being Arsenal and Tottenham. 6 currently occupy a promotion, play off or European Place with one in a relegation place. 4 (+25%) namely Morecambe, Cheltenham, Wimbledon and Rochdale are arguably not in an enviable position?

1. Arsenal - currently a distant 6th in the prem with the 4th highest wage budget. Haven't won much in many a year.  Slightly under achieving.
2. Exeter - 5th in league2. Boxing a little above their weight this season but certainly in the 'correct division' as far as their financial muscle is concerned. Slightly over achieving.
3. Morecambe - 20th in league2. Probably about their natural level these days given their facilities etc. Bang on the money.
4. Wycombe - 3rd in league2. Like Exeter, boxing a little above their weight this season and again in the 'correct division'. Slightly over achieving.
5. Wimbledon - 18th in league1. Id say they are a division above their natural level. Fan owed so very impressive. Massively over achieving.
6. Bournemouth - 11th in the prem. A few positions above the level their finances dictate but were absolutely bank rolled into the premier league. Slightly over achieving.
7. Burnley - 7th in the prem. An utterly amazing job. Massively over achieving.
8. Rochdale - 21st in league1. In every way a league two club but struggling to stay in the division above. Slightly over achieving.
9. Bristol Rovers - 11th in league1. About par to where you'd expect them to be. Bang on the money.
10. Tottenham - 4th in the prem. 6th highest budget. Slightly over achieving.
11. Accrington - 1st in league2. Nothing to add. Massively over achieving.
12. Carlisle - 10th in league2. Bang on the money.
13. Brighton - 13th in prem. Bank rolled to get there. Slightly over achieving.
14. Millwall - 6th in championship. Unless Im not up to speed on something, hugely impressive stuff. Massively over achieving.
15. Cheltenham - 16th in league2. Where you'd expect them to be give or take. Bang on the money.

Interesting debate!

By my reckoning - from these 15 most stable clubs managerial wise:

Massively over achieving - 4
Slightly over achieving - 6
Bang on the money - 4
Slightly under achieving - 1

4 of those clubs (Wimbledon, Bristol Rovers, Exeter and Bournemouth) were all taken on at lower levels with a massive budget advantage compared to their rivals which enabled them to gain momentum etc. So there is unique situations each time.

I wouldn't say that these stats provide any significant proof that keeping a manager for a long time makes a jot of difference overall. Most clubs will find 'their natural level'.

Id say our 'natural level' is top half league2/bottom half league1. With the Chinese money/extra budget this season we've heavily under performed, almost certainly relegated. Hence why JFH was sent on his way.

None of those 15 clubs did the manager start particularly badly. Johnson did take Cheltenham down from a difficult position before winning the national league the following season to buck the trend a little. I can't think of a situation where a manager has proper bombed out in his first season and then several years later still been in the job and lorded up because of it!
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« Reply #156 on: April 16, 2018, 15:22:17 pm »

Fair assessment I’d say. To be honest I took that it doesn’t seem to be either an advantage or disadvantage so pretty much the same as you. That’s the way it seems to appear anyway?
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« Reply #157 on: April 16, 2018, 15:27:31 pm »

Fair assessment I’d say. To be honest I took that it doesn’t seem to be either an advantage or disadvantage so pretty much the same as you. That’s the way it seems to appear anyway?

I read it as 10 over achieving, 4 as expected, 1 under achieving.
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« Reply #158 on: April 16, 2018, 15:33:13 pm »

1. Arsenal - currently a distant 6th in the prem with the 4th highest wage budget. Haven't won much in many a year.  Slightly under achieving.


Three FA Cups in last four years - 2017, 2015, 2014
Charity Shields Winners - 2017, 2015, 2014
PL Runners Up - 2016
League Cup Runners Up - 2018
Europa League Semi's (so far) - 2018

There's a few clubs who wouldn't mind that record in the last four years (Spurs, Liverpool, Man Utd) although I agree with your 'Slightly under Achieving' summary.
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« Reply #159 on: April 16, 2018, 15:46:09 pm »

Three FA Cups in last four years - 2017, 2015, 2014
Charity Shields Winners - 2017, 2015, 2014
PL Runners Up - 2016
League Cup Runners Up - 2018
Europa League Semi's (so far) - 2018

There's a few clubs who wouldn't mind that record in the last four years (Spurs, Liverpool, Man Utd) although I agree with your 'Slightly under Achieving' summary.


Ha ha, fair enough on the FA Cups!  Grin

To be fair, I was just looking at league positions. Your right to call me up on the 'haven't won much in many a year' though Smiley
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