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guest3114
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Three FA Cups in last four years - 2017, 2015, 2014
Charity Shields Winners - 2017, 2015, 2014
PL Runners Up - 2016
League Cup Runners Up - 2018
Europa League Semi's (so far) - 2018
There's a few clubs who wouldn't mind that record in the last four years (Spurs, Liverpool, Man Utd) although I agree with your 'Slightly under Achieving' summary.
Klopps about to fall into the 3 year category. Under, over or bang on the money? Also wonder if Newcastle & Norwich regret not keeping Chris Hughton? |
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DrillingCobbler
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I read it as 10 over achieving, 4 as expected, 1 under achieving.
This is true. But the ones slightly over achieving…theres dozens of those around the divisions that have had managers in place for just a short period of time. For the argument to stick that sticking with the same guy for a number of years is beneficial, Id like to see a number of examples used to show this. Crucially as well, and I re-enforce this point…most of these managers started off really well and gained momentum from a lower than natural starting point. Its no confidence that every manager who has managed us in the 3rd tier during the last 30 years has been sacked! (Gorman aside who left for reasons we all know but most likely would have been fired). Thats because historically they 'have been up against it'. In recent times, Page, JE and JFH have not had the usual disadvantage versus rival clubs that the likes of Broadhurst, Gray etc had. Page took on a fantastic team and momentum, JE had a very decent budget and JFH even more so. None of those 3 deserved being kept on and all 3 should have gone sooner than they did in my opinion! At the end of the day, there isn't a single football club out of the 92 that has kept on a grossly under performing manager for any longer than 12 months. Apart from arguably the Blackburn owners when they wouldn't sack the guy who took them down (can't remember his name). Its football. You only stay in a job if your successful. Which is right. The 15 longest serving managers in the game have all done a decent job at times but those suggesting that its the answer to our problems (keeping someone on for 3 plus years) - it just isn't! |
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guest3114
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This is true. But the ones slightly over achieving…theres dozens of those around the divisions that have had managers in place for just a short period of time.
For the argument to stick that sticking with the same guy for a number of years is beneficial, Id like to see a number of examples used to show this.
Crucially as well, and I re-enforce this point…most of these managers started off really well and gained momentum from a lower than natural starting point.
Its no confidence that every manager who has managed us in the 3rd tier during the last 30 years has been sacked! (Gorman aside who left for reasons we all know but most likely would have been fired). Thats because historically they 'have been up against it'.
In recent times, Page, JE and JFH have not had the usual disadvantage versus rival clubs that the likes of Broadhurst, Gray etc had. Page took on a fantastic team and momentum, JE had a very decent budget and JFH even more so. None of those 3 deserved being kept on and all 3 should have gone sooner than they did in my opinion!
At the end of the day, there isn't a single football club out of the 92 that has kept on a grossly under performing manager for any longer than 12 months. Apart from arguably the Blackburn owners when they wouldn't sack the guy who took them down (can't remember his name). Its football. You only stay in a job if your successful. Which is right. The 15 longest serving managers in the game have all done a decent job at times but those suggesting that its the answer to our problems (keeping someone on for 3 plus years) - it just isn't!
Sean Dyche was relegated as Burnley manager from the Premiership. Some supporters on 606 claimed the job had become too big and they should have got rid when he struggled in the Prem first time around? Bet they’re glad they didn’t now? If you look hard enough you can find exceptions for everything? Even more controversially Keith Berkenshaw took Tottenham down following his first season in charge, brought them back up and went on to be successful, so it does happen. Not sure it makes a convincing argument for doing likewise though? |
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threeinabed
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Sean Dyche was relegated as Burnley manager from the Premiership.
Dyche was given a bit of leeway by the board as they were investing most of the money they received from being in the premiership on facilities around the club rather than directly on players to keep them up that first season. Dyche was on board with this, so they couldn't really sack him based on their lack of investment - it seems to have worked out okay for them. |
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DrillingCobbler
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Sean Dyche was relegated as Burnley manager from the Premiership. Some supporters on 606 claimed the job had become too big and they should have got rid when he struggled in the Prem first time around? Bet they’re glad they didn’t now? If you look hard enough you can find exceptions for everything? Even more controversially Keith Berkenshaw took Tottenham down following his first season in charge, brought them back up and went on to be successful, so it does happen. Not sure it makes a convincing argument for doing likewise though?
Dyche won Burnley the league in his first season and was promoted to the Prem…second season they went down…he then took them back up, helped no doubt by the parachute payments. Not knocking that, he's done a brilliant job…but he started off really well. It didn't take the Leicester manager at the time long to win the premiership with his new club…first season, literally…either! The way I see football and this whole managers debate is simple. Its all about timing. Its about balancing the financial outlay it will cost to replace a manager versus every other financial element that having an under performing team effects. Does sticking with a manager and instead giving him more money to spend v sacking said manager make you better or worse overall? Subjective most of the time. Swansea went up the leagues with various different managers and have stayed in the prem again under various different managers. The latest had just been fired by Sheffield Wednesday! Watford continue to over perform and they sack a manager every few months. Some will be a success elsewhere, some may have been a success prior to coming to us and then bomb out. I think its all about dynamics, whether they just hit it off in said environment so to speak. Once the rot has set in, any sports team will struggle…and its VERY RARE when a manager will turn things around. But like I say, that manager will almost certainly have built up some good will previously if he's allowed to get through a really bad spell. Its ironic that those people citing Wilder as an example of how a manager will perform well if given a good amount of time (3 years) fail to remember Ian Atkins or Graham Carr, who both spent several seasons as our manager and both ended up where they started back in the 4th tier and playing absolutely awful football! |
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Wolvo
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Its ironic that those people citing Wilder as an example of how a manager will perform well if given a good amount of time (3 years) fail to remember Ian Atkins or Graham Carr, who both spent several seasons as our manager and both ended up where they started back in the 4th tier and playing absolutely awful football!
And that second part is key. No one knows what would have happened if Wilder or Calderwood had stayed with us in League One... we can only speculate. I completely agree that a lot must fall into place. Timing, opportunity and luck. Imagine if we sacked Wilder in his second season? He'd have been regarded as a failure and next move probably would have been back in non-league. A historical (but classic one), what if United sacked Fergie all them years ago? I guess the best ones always 'create their own luck' as such. |
Pink Army!
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GeordieCobbler
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We may well still go down however DA has not done his chances of being offered the position full time any harm at all in my eyes. His man management skills were much in evidence today and the players have responded well to his rallying cry.
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Razor
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Whatever happens I'd like him to be our manager next year. He just gets it. And the players are clearly playing for him and for the badge now.
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memyhead
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We haven't played anywhere near that level since the Wilder days.
Under Page, JED & JFH if we went a goal up we would just sit back. Not today, we were going for the jugular the whole game. Never felt we would conceded as we were continually attacking. So refreshing after two seasons of dross...
No other manager could get us playing any better than today so if we get anywhere near that performance in the next two games then I'd give the job to Austin, even if we get relegated.
Also, he knows all the players & who to keep etc, rather than someone else coming in and giving the deadwood another chance.
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North_Stand_Wobbler
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totally agree with last poster that he has proved although over just 2 games that he can get the team playing football in a positive way (he seems like a proper football man IMO).
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UTC and FTP! There's no finer town....!
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CobblerForever
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The big, big plus with Austin is that KT gets to see him day in day out actually working with him and his team. He should be in no doubt as to his strengths and weaknesses AND how to work with him most effectively for the club as a whole. It's then a simple decision as to whether to offer him the job or not.
If KT is not monitoring this situation on a daily basis (he should be at the club every workday) he is building a rod for his own back.
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guest47
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I would be fine with Austin getting the job as he seems perfectly capable. I would assume he’s already got a contract with a couple of years left to run and the money that would cost to get in a ‘name’ manager would be better spent on decent players and better training facilities.
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Cordwainer2
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Agree totally about the impact that Austin has had. Came out the ground calling for him to be appointed now. My only concern is how much he was involved in signing Bunney and Van Veen.
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guest2487
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The fact he ain't even putting Bunney in the squad suggests not much..
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Deepcut Cobbler
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totally agree with last poster that he has proved although over just 2 games that he can get the team playing football in a positive way (he seems like a proper football man IMO).
Easy when you have five matches to go and everyone believes that you are already down to 'go for it'. A free shot to nothing. Different when you are managing the whole season with a minimum level of expectation. He may earn his 'emotional' appointment for next season but his current performance isn't a complete CV. |
“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.” Laurence Binyon
The Hotelend Grand National Sweepstake Champion 2009
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Monty
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He certainly hasn't done himself any harm. I firmly believe that next season's success hinges predominantly on player recruitment, though - regardless of which division we end up in, or who the manager is. Grimes and Long will need to be replaced, and the striker position in particular is key if we want to be competitive.
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Hotel End Grand National Sweepstake Winner 2018, Fantasy Premier League Winner 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018
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guest49
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Low risk to start next season with him. Could be the old 6-10 games and then the bullet. Change brings more uncertainty and at least he knows whatever players stay at the club. He gave us the biggest highlight since Wilder yesterday. Similar performances in the next two and it shouldn’t even be up for discussion.
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guest3114
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Bringing the best out of this squad must be one of the biggest challenges anyone could have had to face at this level? The fact that DA managed this in just a couple of games is remarkable considering the form when he took over. As we know, the big requisite for any manager at this level is the ability to wheel and deal in the transfer and loan market? I have no idea if DA has the tools to do this part of the job? However, win the last 2 games and I reckon we will get to find out?
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Irchy cob
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I would imagine that a lot also depends on the future of KT and Bower and whether they are able to source new investment/partners. If by some miracle we find new owners or partners with money then they are going to want a say in who the manager is going to be. If KT and Bower stay on with the same financial backing then I would assume that Austin will be the cheap, and probably at least in the short term if we continue to show a bit of fight, popular option. If we do go down and decide to retain Austin then it will be interesting to see the effect on season ticket sales as opposed to a more "high profile" appointment. Of course all this is dependent on whether Austin actually wants the job or not - it might be the case if/when we go down that he decides that he prefers being a coach/assistant.
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TownOwl
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I get the feeling he's enjoying it.
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