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Terryfenwickatemyhamster
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« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2018, 23:27:53 pm »

then again what do you know u thought Andy Kirk was a great player  Grin Grin Grin Grin

Still think he was ok. And certainly still understand why you will always have an axe to grind with NTFC 😀
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BedsCobb
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« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2018, 07:42:39 am »

No chance Barnets average wage was just £600 a week.
The high cost of living in that area where rent is £1500 a month for basic accomodation or house prices at 300,000 for a one bed shoe box would mean soup kitchens and food banks.
On the other hand KvV picking up 3 grand a week for the next 2 years for training 3 days a week is a nice gig.
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Terryfenwickatemyhamster
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« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2018, 08:31:12 am »

No chance Barnets average wage was just £600 a week.
The high cost of living in that area where rent is £1500 a month for basic accomodation or house prices at 300,000 for a one bed shoe box would mean soup kitchens and food banks.
On the other hand KvV picking up 3 grand a week for the next 2 years for training 3 days a week is a nice gig.
How do you know what KVV earns?
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WasRambo
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« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2018, 08:49:20 am »

If people are after a squad where everyone is happy in a utopian world all getting paid on or close to the average wage then guess what, you'll end up with an average squad.

Every team has it's (relative) star players who pick up the big(ger) bucks. It's a fact of life, whatever your job.

For me it's up to the lower paid to improve to earn the bigger bucks and the stars to perform to prove they're worth it.

Players who throw the toys out because they're paid less can do one...
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AlistairSlowe
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« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2018, 10:39:06 am »

Literally no facts on this thread yet.

Well done.

Overall malice of the club? Give over. Speak to employees of the club.
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« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2018, 11:09:48 am »

No news on the meeting then AS?

Interesting again that you never reply with anything sensible or reasoned arguments Hammy, you are turning into Everbrite's dad !

My axe Hammy is that we are in a relatively unique position as a football club with a big population and no major Prem club or big club nearby. Yet again we are in the bottom league with one of the worst / smallest grounds around. We have a chairman that is basically a nicer version of the previous one, spend loads on crap players and almost nothing on everything else, whilst waiting for NBC to give them a load of land.

THAT IS WHY I AM STILL P ISSED OF WITH NTFC

I don't have issues with the employees at all, they are there to earn money so they can pay their bills, far enough. Sure they like KT, he is nice to them and pays their wages on time and isn't there that much, so a great boss  Grin

What I don't understand is why most of you aren't bothered about having a winning football club, happy to be at the bottom.

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AlistairSlowe
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« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2018, 11:21:40 am »

The problem is with all of this nonsense, is the actual stuff you guys say is nonsense and put across in a ridiculous manner which then means your point of views lose a lot of credibility.

Point being, you'd probably have more people on your side if you didn't make stuff up and didn't speculate nonsense all the time as the point of a bigger and better football club is 100% the right view.

Crying constantly on here about it is going to achieve absolutely nothing. Zilch.
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« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2018, 12:37:07 pm »

The problem is with all of this nonsense, is the actual stuff you guys say is nonsense and put across in a ridiculous manner which then means your point of views lose a lot of credibility.

Point being, you'd probably have more people on your side if you didn't make stuff up and didn't speculate nonsense all the time as the point of a bigger and better football club is 100% the right view.

Crying constantly on here about it is going to achieve absolutely nothing. Zilch.

This type of comment was the typical 'norm' pretty much 3 years ago to where we are now. 95% against a small minority. The small minority were bang on then.

Im not having a go mate, far from it. But it does surprise me that our history doesn't make more people just a tad cynical.

This thread is about budgets. Because it doesn't hit the agenda of some, they diss the source. And even when those who question it (I actually did!) but find no surprise to the numbers for the reasons explained, they are just talking crap…apparently!  Grin

Its not hard to find articles discussing the average wages of players in different leagues. Last season at times we were paying over 30. And its a fair assumption to make that many of those players would have been earning far more than the average. Hence why we had a top third in the division budget. On that list, the likes of Blackburn and Wigan are at the top…again no surprise. The clubs at the bottom, again its pretty obvious. MK Dons…it was well reported that when they went up from this division 3 years ago they had a 4.5million circa budget…about the biggest at the time. They have been in the championship since then, so no surprise they have an even bigger budget than ourselves. All the numbers on the list do make sense although I doubt they are entirely accurately but as a general basis…pretty much correct Id say.

Much of our budget was spent on the back of Chinese 'investment'. Again its a FACT when its pointed out that our main shareholder who sold his shares to the Chinese, then gained them back after the deal went 'wong' (sorry!!!) - has had to cover a very sizeable short fall since.

Is he prepared to continue funding the club given we've got roughly 24 contracted players, definitely need a handful more etc, for another season at a lower league and with lower overall income? Theres no point asking him, he's not contactable for the likes of you and me. And even if he was, would the answer be accurate both now, in 6 months time, 12 months time? KT isn't going to open up on the matter, would you if you were him?

Of course he could gain some of that back, or indeed all of it, by flogging some players. Crookes, 250K plus a big saving on wages? Lets say total 400k. VV - possibly another 300k all in. Then all of a sudden its sustainable again.

Most of the stuff on this website is speculation, opinion, much of it subjective. I think its fair to say though that the football club has not been well run at all during the last 12 months (relegation aside), whether that will change any time soon under the current ownership will much depend on their commitment and time they are prepared to put in. One is based in Dubai, the other in the States (half the time). In my opinion they certainly need to be far more hands on, but thats from me looking from the outside in and I accept I may be totally wrong with that. But theres some serious questions that need to be answered and ones that no body can get them to answer with anywhere near transparency.

I've used the fruit machine analogy on here before but not for some time. I just get the hunch that they know that it isn't going to pay anytime soon, they are down to their last 10er, and their mates have all gone to the next pub without them!  Grin



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« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2018, 12:47:57 pm »

My axe Hammy is that we are in a relatively unique position as a football club with a big population and no major Prem club or big club nearby.

Every fan will think their club is special and unique... Sadly, we're just another team that make up the numbers in the bottom 2 divisions of the footballing pyramid. I've pointed out before that their are several teams with similar populations far away from prem football in similar/worse positions than us.
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AlistairSlowe
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« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2018, 12:56:37 pm »

This type of comment was the typical 'norm' pretty much 3 years ago to where we are now. 95% against a small minority. The small minority were bang on then.

Im not having a go mate, far from it. But it does surprise me that our history doesn't make more people just a tad cynical.

This thread is about budgets. Because it doesn't hit the agenda of some, they diss the source. And even when those who question it (I actually did!) but find no surprise to the numbers for the reasons explained, they are just talking crap…apparently!  Grin

Its not hard to find articles discussing the average wages of players in different leagues. Last season at times we were paying over 30. And its a fair assumption to make that many of those players would have been earning far more than the average. Hence why we had a top third in the division budget. On that list, the likes of Blackburn and Wigan are at the top…again no surprise. The clubs at the bottom, again its pretty obvious. MK Dons…it was well reported that when they went up from this division 3 years ago they had a 4.5million circa budget…about the biggest at the time. They have been in the championship since then, so no surprise they have an even bigger budget than ourselves. All the numbers on the list do make sense although I doubt they are entirely accurately but as a general basis…pretty much correct Id say.

Much of our budget was spent on the back of Chinese 'investment'. Again its a FACT when its pointed out that our main shareholder who sold his shares to the Chinese, then gained them back after the deal went 'wong' (sorry!!!) - has had to cover a very sizeable short fall since.

Is he prepared to continue funding the club given we've got roughly 24 contracted players, definitely need a handful more etc, for another season at a lower league and with lower overall income? Theres no point asking him, he's not contactable for the likes of you and me. And even if he was, would the answer be accurate both now, in 6 months time, 12 months time? KT isn't going to open up on the matter, would you if you were him?

Of course he could gain some of that back, or indeed all of it, by flogging some players. Crookes, 250K plus a big saving on wages? Lets say total 400k. VV - possibly another 300k all in. Then all of a sudden its sustainable again.

Most of the stuff on this website is speculation, opinion, much of it subjective. I think its fair to say though that the football club has not been well run at all during the last 12 months (relegation aside), whether that will change any time soon under the current ownership will much depend on their commitment and time they are prepared to put in. One is based in Dubai, the other in the States (half the time). In my opinion they certainly need to be far more hands on, but thats from me looking from the outside in and I accept I may be totally wrong with that. But theres some serious questions that need to be answered and ones that no body can get them to answer with anywhere near transparency.

I've used the fruit machine analogy on here before but not for some time. I just get the hunch that they know that it isn't going to pay anytime soon, they are down to their last 10er, and their mates have all gone to the next pub without them!  Grin





Healthy debate, nothing wrong with that!

Difference I see between the DC era and KT era is that KT hasn't promised anything. DC over promised and under delivered.
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WasRambo
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« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2018, 12:59:02 pm »

The reason we got relegated was that our previous two managers were unable to find an effective way to utilise our squad combined with some very poor signings.



This.

Ok, you can argue that there may have been some a bit miffed that "others were earning more" but that's football. Technically, they are doing the same job but bear in mind the majority of the squad get paid a full wage but rarely kick a ball for the 1st team. They're backup players earning backup money.

The reason we got relegated was because collectively and tactically, we were for the most part, abject $hite.

Technically, I think we had a good enough bunch to stay up. If there was any dissent in the ranks, far more likely it was between players and management rather than between players. If though, there was any in-fighting amongst players, it would more likely be around the very fact that new players were brought in pushing others down the order (and then seeing them played out of position) rather than what they were paid.

The simple fact is, the board gave the management more than enough to do a job and the management failed. Lay some blame on the players too. They were technically good enough to stay up but didn't.

One thing that certainly wasn't lacking was playing budget. Not sure how the board can win on this - people moan when there's "too much" money about and moan when there's "too little"....
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« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2018, 15:28:56 pm »

The fact we had a healthy budget shows that something is not right at the club, I think lots of people going through the motions as there is little direction / ambition from the top

So AS Kt is fine because he has under promised and not delivered Huh?  Roll Eyes

In fact KT has over promised and underdelivered as he gained control via NBC with a promise of £4m investment into NTFC, which of course has not happened. Quite a big promise I would say wouldn't you???

Also bear in mind that DC invested at least £4m in his early promising years as Chairman.
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Deepcut Cobbler
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« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2018, 15:30:05 pm »


My axe Hammy is that we are in a relatively unique position as a football club with a big population and no major Prem club or big club nearby.

What I don't understand is why most of you aren't bothered about having a winning football club, happy to be at the bottom.



Contrary to popular belief, not everyone likes watching live football or even any football at all.  
Those in and around Northampton that do, either make an effort and come and watch the Cobblers or, if you stand on Castle Station on any match day, you can see the rest that travel (an hour is not far in this day and age) to watch top flight football or even a level equal to or above our own.  We do not have a monopoly on football watchers in Northampton (shire).
The same as Pompey don't expect me to pitch up at Fratton Park each week because I live almost on their doorstep.

None of us are happy to be at the bottom and I would suspect, we are all as sceptical about everything that goes on in and around our football club.
We don't have an entitlement to know the workings of the football club and in the absence of anything factual we can speculate all we want.  Some don't and some do but those that do increasingly pass this off as fact (attached to a cryptic Grim Reaper-ish message), when it could be nowhere near the truth, although it maybe.  Stick to facts or highlight that it is only your opinion and show your workings for coming to that opinion, so there isn't any confusion.

Those that question your workings or those that say nothing on this board are just as passionate as the 'noisy' minority.  It would be appreciated if you do not accuse those of us in the majority of anything else.
We just can't be ar5ed to waste time with (useless) speculation, as you clearly have too much of the former to enable you to conduct the latter.
Although it is something to read during this lull before the new fixture list/World Cup.
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AlistairSlowe
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« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2018, 15:33:50 pm »

The fact we had a healthy budget shows that something is not right at the club, I think lots of people going through the motions as there is little direction / ambition from the top

So AS Kt is fine because he has under promised and not delivered Huh?  Roll Eyes

In fact KT has over promised and underdelivered as he gained control via NBC with a promise of £4m investment into NTFC, which of course has not happened. Quite a big promise I would say wouldn't you???

Also bear in mind that DC invested at least £4m in his early promising years as Chairman.


It's pointless trying to reason.

He said they had 4 mill ringfenced for the East Stand.
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« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2018, 15:59:13 pm »

Contrary to popular belief, not everyone likes watching live football or even any football at all.  
Those in and around Northampton that do, either make an effort and come and watch the Cobblers or, if you stand on Castle Station on any match day, you can see the rest that travel (an hour is not far in this day and age) to watch top flight football or even a level equal to or above our own.  We do not have a monopoly on football watchers in Northampton (shire).

Agree with all of this. The whole Northamptonshire thing is nonsense too.... the likes of Wellingborough, Kettering, Corby all live much closer to Leicester (via public transport), than they do to Northampton.
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« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2018, 17:37:27 pm »

Every fan will think their club is special and unique... Sadly, we're just another team that make up the numbers in the bottom 2 divisions of the footballing pyramid. I've pointed out before that their are several teams with similar populations far away from prem football in similar/worse positions than us.

Name them..
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Terryfenwickatemyhamster
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« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2018, 17:55:42 pm »

No news on the meeting then AS?

Interesting again that you never reply with anything sensible or reasoned arguments Hammy, you are turning into Everbrite's dad !

My axe Hammy is that we are in a relatively unique position as a football club with a big population and no major Prem club or big club nearby. Yet again we are in the bottom league with one of the worst / smallest grounds around. We have a chairman that is basically a nicer version of the previous one, spend loads on crap players and almost nothing on everything else, whilst waiting for NBC to give them a load of land.

THAT IS WHY I AM STILL P ISSED OF WITH NTFC

I don't have issues with the employees at all, they are there to earn money so they can pay their bills, far enough. Sure they like KT, he is nice to them and pays their wages on time and isn't there that much, so a great boss  Grin

What I don't understand is why most of you aren't bothered about having a winning football club, happy to be at the bottom.



I will always have a more relaxed perspective about the whole thing than you, and probably several others. For me this is a recreational pursuit, watching a game I love, played out by half decent players. I watch it at NTFC because they are my favourite team. I sometimes wonder why, but hey ho.  Grin Just like you and many others, I would like to see us push on and develop the ground and rise to a significantly higher level of football. That's where my agenda stops.

For you and a few others, it appears to have elevated to a whole new dimension. Where you seem to think that supporting a team, or paying a few quid to watch them, entitles you to an absolute say on what should and shouldn't happen. Social media has created an army of armchair accountants, planners, statisticians, constructors, all sorts. It has given them a platform to tout themselves as an expert on all manner of things. All of this without investing a penny, or producing a bead of sweat to achieve their self appointed status. You have talked yourself into believing that your made up version of the world is actually real. Then you are buoyed up by the mere fact that you can get a few other deluded fools to concur with you.  

I absolutely agree that KT is not going to risk further significant investment until he can see a clear return on it. I also absolutely believe that he grossly underestimated the challenge he was taking on. But, I will not buy into anything more than he might have got some things wrong. I'd imagine he has gone silent for one reason. He would only have to spend five minutes on here, to see how the few things he has said, are perpetually regurgitated, twisted and shoved back down his throat at every given opportunity. He may of made some mistakes. But it would be a wise man who never gave a few of you information to play with.
  
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BedsCobb
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« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2018, 18:08:02 pm »

Contrary to popular belief, not everyone likes watching live football or even any football at all.  
Those in and around Northampton that do, either make an effort and come and watch the Cobblers or, if you stand on Castle Station on any match day, you can see the rest that travel (an hour is not far in this day and age) to watch top flight football or even a level equal to or above our own.  We do not have a monopoly on football watchers in Northampton (shire).
The same as Pompey don't expect me to pitch up at Fratton Park each week because I live almost on their doorstep.

None of us are happy to be at the bottom and I would suspect, we are all as sceptical about everything that goes on in and around our football club.
We don't have an entitlement to know the workings of the football club and in the absence of anything factual we can speculate all we want.  Some don't and some do but those that do increasingly pass this off as fact (attached to a cryptic Grim Reaper-ish message), when it could be nowhere near the truth, although it maybe.  Stick to facts or highlight that it is only your opinion and show your workings for coming to that opinion, so there isn't any confusion.

Those that question your workings or those that say nothing on this board are just as passionate as the 'noisy' minority.  It would be appreciated if you do not accuse those of us in the majority of anything else.
We just can't be ar5ed to waste time with (useless) speculation, as you clearly have too much of the former to enable you to conduct the latter.
Although it is something to read during this lull before the new fixture list/World Cup.
Until we're in a position in which to fully promote and sell our football club hard and far as having ambitions playing at an atmospheric all singing and dancing stadium  offering all the mod cons found every where else,  this will remain the mantra.
You can't expect fans to be attracted to our little stadium and forced to sit in the poorer over flow areas that dont usually sell out, with no decent facilities  then expect them to return the following week.. they wont.
Cardoza actually understood this but got consumed with greed , but sadly thomas doesn't or pretends he doesn't or just doesn't want to, we are yet to know what's his intentions are after near 3 years!
Our club needs a serious influx of good will from the folk of Northampton and surrounding areas that can only happen when they are made feel part of it and what it aims to achieve and thats not staying as an ambitionless and insignificant football club facilitating outside speculators to council land leases/ riches. Until something gives we will remain a joke club in our own back yard.

I hoping thomas finds new investors /owners during this summer that are better than the last lot.
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AlistairSlowe
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« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2018, 20:52:03 pm »

I will always have a more relaxed perspective about the whole thing than you, and probably several others. For me this is a recreational pursuit, watching a game I love, played out by half decent players. I watch it at NTFC because they are my favourite team. I sometimes wonder why, but hey ho.  Grin Just like you and many others, I would like to see us push on and develop the ground and rise to a significantly higher level of football. That's where my agenda stops.

For you and a few others, it appears to have elevated to a whole new dimension. Where you seem to think that supporting a team, or paying a few quid to watch them, entitles you to an absolute say on what should and shouldn't happen. Social media has created an army of armchair accountants, planners, statisticians, constructors, all sorts. It has given them a platform to tout themselves as an expert on all manner of things. All of this without investing a penny, or producing a bead of sweat to achieve their self appointed status. You have talked yourself into believing that your made up version of the world is actually real. Then you are buoyed up by the mere fact that you can get a few other deluded fools to concur with you.  

I absolutely agree that KT is not going to risk further significant investment until he can see a clear return on it. I also absolutely believe that he grossly underestimated the challenge he was taking on. But, I will not buy into anything more than he might have got some things wrong. I'd imagine he has gone silent for one reason. He would only have to spend five minutes on here, to see how the few things he has said, are perpetually regurgitated, twisted and shoved back down his throat at every given opportunity. He may of made some mistakes. But it would be a wise man who never gave a few of you information to play with.
  

Perfect summary.
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« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2018, 22:10:19 pm »

Name them..

Our local teams. Coventry and MK. Cambridge and Oxford. I'm bothering looking any further on Google maps  Grin Grin
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