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NTFC FOR SALE

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GrangeParkCobbler
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« Reply #60 on: May 23, 2018, 15:14:32 pm »

Just on this bit, why do you say Thomas is asking the council to bend over backwards to help?

I ask this full in the knowledge I am probably being naďve and understand we have only heard one side of the story. From the clubs statement it the two conflicting leases have slightly different ownership; 1) Owned solely by Thomas and Bower 2) Owned by the club, of which Thomas and Bower are majority shareholders but several other parties have a stake. The club are asking for the council to help dissolve lease 1)...the one solely owned by Thomas and Bower. I'm sure there are many reasons to be cautious of our owners motives but I'd be more worried if they wanted lease 2 dissolved, i.e. they got control of the land themselves rather than the club.

I also don't see why the thought is there that the council will have to bend over backwards or are handing anything to Thomas and Bower, if anything they'll be taking something away.

I'm sure I've got it completely wrong somewhere but to be honest I cannot pick through the information available to understand all this, as others seem to have, it is way above my pay grade!


Didn't need just to refer to Thomas and co...but anyone who stands to make a small fortune from developing on the land.

I've heard about "leases" and who "controls" the land, but who actually owns the land? Is it the Council, is it English Partnerships or whoever it is now? If the land is so valuable then why don't the "owners" of the land sell it off for development themselves? How did this land come under control of the club and/or CDNL?

We have been told that there is no business case for expansion of the ground (by KT), we have been told (by the Council) that there is nothing within the current lease set up that is stopping at least the East Stand being completed.

So whatever is planned for the land (and who knows what that is) doesn't seem to benefit the council, or the football club, but it does benefit a property developer, be that Cardoza or Thomas. Tha'ts why i'm implying that the football club is a (sometimes inconvenient) sideshow to the bigger picture, and that bigger picture is land development.
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« Reply #61 on: May 23, 2018, 15:32:48 pm »

Didn't need just to refer to Thomas and co...but anyone who stands to make a small fortune from developing on the land.

I've heard about "leases" and who "controls" the land, but who actually owns the land? Is it the Council, is it English Partnerships or whoever it is now? If the land is so valuable then why don't the "owners" of the land sell it off for development themselves? How did this land come under control of the club and/or CDNL?

We have been told that there is no business case for expansion of the ground (by KT), we have been told (by the Council) that there is nothing within the current lease set up that is stopping at least the East Stand being completed.

So whatever is planned for the land (and who knows what that is) doesn't seem to benefit the council, or the football club, but it does benefit a property developer, be that Cardoza or Thomas. Tha'ts why i'm implying that the football club is a (sometimes inconvenient) sideshow to the bigger picture, and that bigger picture is land development.

Thanks for the response, certainly understand where you are coming from. Your last line is spot on!

It just seemed to me that what the club is currently asking from the council doesn't seem like a huge deal, if it is it would be good for the council to outline this and the reasons why.

Sadly, despite a lot of the stuff that is posted on here, a savvy developer who does things the right way is right up there with our best chances of growing the club. I doubt too many fans would complain if the clubs whole infrastructure was improved and then whoever the owners were at the time made a tidy profit, either with some associated development or by selling a much improved club.

Thomas and Bowers true intentions? we'll probably never really know.
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« Reply #62 on: May 23, 2018, 15:55:36 pm »

CLUB STATEMENT: BOARD TOTALLY FRUSTRATED BY LACK OF ACTION, COOPERATION AND COMMUNICATION FROM NORTHAMPTON BOROUGH COUNCIL

The Board of Directors confirm that having grown totally frustrated with the complete lack of action, cooperation or communication from Northampton Borough Council that they are reluctantly open to a discussion about selling their controlling shareholding in Northampton Town Football Club.

Chairman Kelvin Thomas said, “We find ourselves in an extremely disappointing and almost impossible position and having tried over so many months every possible approach to Northampton Borough Council to regularise the East Stand lease position, we feel that we have little choice but to step aside and allow others to complete the process. Regularising the lease position should not, under any circumstances, be controversial and we have been merely asking NBC to correct their own error made back in 2013 which was before our involvement.”

Director David Bower added, “For reasons known only to themselves, on 17 September 2013 NBC granted a lease of an area of land adjacent to and forming part of the East Stand to County Developments Northampton Ltd (CDNL) set up by the previous Chairman and his partners. This land was already leased to the club. After taking over the club and understanding the full picture, it was clear this situation needed correcting and we assumed that NBC would work with us to this end.

“To ensure that we could effectively sort out the Council’s error, Kelvin and I paid a considerable sum to allow CDNL (which by then had been placed in liquidation) to go through a Company Voluntary Arrangement. This process was completed in the face of considerable opposition from various officers and members of the Council who clearly had a different agenda. In an effort to frustrate our plans the Council unsuccessfully wasted considerable sums of public money in legal fees when the Council could have achieved what both they and the football club required with a more cooperative approach.

“For almost 18 months we have been asking the Council to allow CDNL to surrender the relevant area to the Football Club so that there was no potential conflict. In December 2017, after many months of pushing, solicitors instructed by the Council, sent to our solicitors a draft Deed of Surrender. Our solicitors processed this within one working day with minimal change and returned the draft Deed to the Council’s solicitors.

“However, since then we have not been able to make any further progress despite numerous approaches to various Officers of the Council and in fact we received notice last week from the Council solicitor they were still waiting for instruction from the Council. A promise was even made by the Council to the Supporters Trust that the surrender would be completed by no later than the end of March 2018, a deadline that passed without any movement.

“The Deed of Surrender merely gives up without any payment or other consideration any claim which CDNL has, to the relevant area which would remove any possible conflict for the club in the future. Unfortunately, the ownership of the club and CDNL is not 100% common because the club has many additional smaller shareholders, mainly fans, alongside Kelvin and myself. It is also very important to protect the interests of all the parties that the lease position is legally correct.

“Notwithstanding the essential simplicity of what has been proposed, the Council continues to prevaricate and Kelvin and I can only conclude that certain officers and members have a personal issue with us. We both agree we can’t allow this negative situation to continue and the club and its supporters deserve better, therefore we have had to make the decision we have.

“Kelvin and I have tried on behalf of the club to engage in a constructive fashion with Officers of the Council, including the Leader, in regard to the real opportunities that exist on the Sixfields site, but no action is ever taken and this lack of action on the lease position is the final straw for us. If we felt confident that we could have a reasonable dialogue with the Council on matters then our view may have been different, but we have to draw a line in the sand at some point.

“We now believe that at least one senior officer, who was interestingly involved when the original loans were made and when the problem lease was also issued, remains influential in the total lack of cooperation that we have seen. We have previously suggested to the Council that if this is not the case then why don’t they prove this by their actions and Kelvin and I repeated this observation.”

Chairman Kelvin Thomas continued, “We have thought for a while that there are parties within the Council who are working against us personally in this process. We accept during various stages of the purchase and the subsequent CDNL CVA proceedings we had to take a rather robust position with the Council to protect the club’s interests, but we did not expect this to work against us in such a way.

“It seems there is now some sort of agenda in the background against David and myself and regrettably we think the only course of action available is to allow others to take matters forward. We are confident there is still a really good opportunity for the club’s wider development and we do think the Council can play a positive role in this matter for the benefit of the whole community, but it seems that needs to be with someone other than us.

“What is most frustrating, considering what happened prior to our ownership, is that we have not asked the Council for anything other than to work together to regularise this incorrect lease position to protect the club. This process is not contingent on any other matter, tied to any additional land or requires any Council funding.

“The Supporters Trust have also tried in vain to get information from the Council and have had numerous missed deadlines and whilst we have been able to show the Trust legal confirmation that what we have said is correct, we understand the Council have been unable to provide any legal confirmation to substantiate their claims. We have also taken time to meet with Chairman Andy Roberts and Board Member Kevin Simons from the Trust and were very open with our frustration and we know they are working hard to find out what is going on also.

“Financially we are in a strong position to open conversations about the shareholding of the club and it is important to make clear that we will continue to support the Football Club as normal during our ownership and the existing budget discussed with James (Whiting) and Dean (Austin) does not change in any way and this will be a competitive budget for the league next season. The club has always been stable financially under our ownership and this will continue, and we will complete any discussions in a professional manner.

“We do feel this creates an opportunity for someone, or a group, to be able to take the club forward. We would love those conversations to be with local people and are very open to that, but what is most important is that our discussions are with people who can demonstrate the appropriate level of finances, energy, and desire to progress the club.

“We have always tried to be as open as possible with supporters whilst trying to advance matters regarding the East Stand in the background with the Council and we are firm in our commitment that we will put the club first, but it is now with a heavy heart that we have reached this point as we feel we have been left with no choice.”
Interesting....
I’m sure at a forum when asked who owned ntfc KT explained himself and David owned it.
I was surprised as I always thought that the club had other local shareholders(I think con Wilson and his family had a shareholding but may be wrong)
Now today it emerges the club have other small shareholders...

I may have got this completely wrong which is more than likely as it’s only from memory and apologies if so but I wish I could flashback to the forum and the ownership structure.
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« Reply #63 on: May 23, 2018, 15:57:10 pm »

 The whole sorry saga is one where DC had the perfect opportunity to develop land that he had control of, develop the stadium that he had control of, pay off the loan and leave himself with a profit, get his money back from the club and ride off into the sunset keeping most parties happy.

Instead we have this stinking mess, tosspots who took advantage, criminal investigations and back in the fourth division.

That level of opportunity isn’t going to happen again.

Wank.
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I think someone should just take this city of Peterborough and just... just flush it down the f***in' toilet

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« Reply #64 on: May 23, 2018, 16:16:17 pm »

Interesting....
I’m sure at a forum when asked who owned ntfc KT explained himself and David owned it.
I was surprised as I always thought that the club had other local shareholders(I think con Wilson and his family had a shareholding but may be wrong)
Now today it emerges the club have other small shareholders...

I may have got this completely wrong which is more than likely as it’s only from memory and apologies if so but I wish I could flashback to the forum and the ownership structure.

I've seen breakdowns before so if i remember right, Thomas and Bower purchased Northampton Town Ventures Limited which gave them around 75% (could be wrong) of the share in the club.  The rest of the shares are owned by something like 100 ish people.
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« Reply #65 on: May 23, 2018, 16:17:12 pm »

Northampton Town Supporters’ Trust has noted the statement from Northampton Town Football Club owners Kelvin Thomas and David Bower that they are now considering selling their controlling shareholding in the football club.

The club has cited a lack of action, co-operation and communication from Northampton Borough Council in respect of the development of the East Stand at Sixfields.

It has become clear that negotiations have stalled between both parties and last month the Trust voiced its considerable frustration at the apparent stalemate in talks, with both parties giving the Trust conflicting position statements.

We felt that this deadlock needed to be broken as a matter of urgency and so wrote to both the council and the football club requesting a written update from both – where they were at present with the negotiation and what, in their view, were the next steps that should be taken.

The football club has detailed its position in writing to us, stating that their legal team had written to counterparts at the council last December with a view to moving the development forward, but that they have received no correspondence since.

We have received no formal written response from the borough council to our letter dated April 19.

Council leader Jonathan Nunn has verbally given the Trust an assurance however that a paper about the East Stand development would shortly be going before the council’s cabinet group for approval.

He stated that this would set out the council’s position in the public domain and give a clear green light for the football club to complete the development of the East Stand.

The next cabinet meetings are scheduled for June 13 and July 18 at the Guildhall and the Trust will be sending a representative to these meetings.

Should these cabinet meetings proceed without any movement in the Sixfields East Stand negotiation, we will consider calling a public meeting of all supporters, to which both the council and the football club will be invited, to discuss the matter.

Today’s statement from the club says this is simply a case of the council signing a Deed of Surrender to allow this land to be surrendered from CDNL to the football club. In this case we completely understand the frustration being expressed by Kelvin Thomas and David Bower.

We await any response from the borough council, and remain committed to helping broker a deal in the long-term best interests of the football club.
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« Reply #66 on: May 23, 2018, 16:24:43 pm »

I've seen breakdowns before so if i remember right, Thomas and Bower purchased Northampton Town Ventures Limited which gave them around 75% (could be wrong) of the share in the club.  The rest of the shares are owned by something like 100 ish people.
Thanks
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« Reply #67 on: May 23, 2018, 16:33:24 pm »

KT just been on Radio Northampton....only caught last few minutes...sounded quite rightly exacerbated towards our inept clueless shambolic council

KT quite rightly said he inherited all this from the inept previous owners and the council (giving 10+ million no questions asked - ie no staged payments etc) and he's just trying to sort this mess out.



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« Reply #68 on: May 23, 2018, 17:37:38 pm »

The council's respones....

https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/breaking-news-borough-council-hits-back-at-criticism-from-northampton-town-chairman-1-8509308
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« Reply #69 on: May 23, 2018, 17:56:09 pm »


Hmmm........

I'm not really sure what to think too be honest.
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« Reply #70 on: May 23, 2018, 18:07:01 pm »

Hmmm........

I'm not really sure what to think too be honest.
...suspect someone is not being totally transparent with the truth, well spinning it at any rate!
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« Reply #71 on: May 23, 2018, 18:14:09 pm »

The telling line from NBC statement for me is the bit about retail development.

Hopefully it is now perfectly clear to Hammy and others that KT's main interest was thinking he could do a better job of land development than DC.

Well done the council for acting in the best interests of Northampton, shame many fans on here can't say the same
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« Reply #72 on: May 23, 2018, 18:16:14 pm »

I hope KT will do the decent thing and hand over his shares and interests to Northampton Group / Trust

Afterall as many on here seem to enjoy telling Beds that there is no investment opportunity in NTFC, so no-one else will be interested


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« Reply #73 on: May 23, 2018, 18:21:11 pm »

The telling line from NBC statement for me is the bit about retail development.

Hopefully it is now perfectly clear to Hammy and others that KT's main interest was thinking he could do a better job of land development than DC.

Well done the council for acting in the best interests of Northampton, shame many fans on here can't say the same

It would be interesting to find out what extra land KT was attempting to get added to the lease.  My guess is the North Stand car park.  Putting both statements together i would assume the council are telling the truth in that KT asked for more land to be added to the document as he states in his statements that the document was sent back with small changes.
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« Reply #74 on: May 23, 2018, 18:32:09 pm »

“For sale”?
Just what is the going rate for a ‘business’ with league 2 status, a significant wage bill and next to zero assets, not even a Ricky Holmes?
Shouldn’t it be “Free to a good home”?
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« Reply #75 on: May 23, 2018, 18:33:06 pm »

Good to finally get a public statement from the council.

I was going to say it’s hard to know who is telling the truth but judging by the above few posts clearly it isn’t!

Edit to say, if the council statement is true it is pretty damning against KT & DB!
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« Reply #76 on: May 23, 2018, 18:34:42 pm »

I’m sure Binley and co are queuing up with their piggy banks.
This one will give the redevelopment thread a challenge at least.
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« Reply #77 on: May 23, 2018, 18:36:04 pm »

It would be interesting to find out what extra land KT was attempting to get added to the lease.  My guess is the North Stand car park.  Putting both statements together i would assume the council are telling the truth in that KT asked for more land to be added to the document as he states in his statements that the document was sent back with small changes.

Yes, I'd be interested to hear what land they are claiming he wanted adding to the lease too. I can't see it being the car park as I don't think the council own it (it belongs to English Partnerships, doesn't it?) but either way I can't see KT being naive enough to undermine his position on this by dismissing a land grab for a dirty great chunk of real estate as "small changes".
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« Reply #78 on: May 23, 2018, 18:41:43 pm »

Wonder if KT would be selling and kicking off to the council if we got promoted instead of relegated....

Bad investment for him and he just wants out.
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« Reply #79 on: May 23, 2018, 18:42:25 pm »

Yes, I'd be interested to hear what land they are claiming he wanted adding to the lease too. I can't see it being the car park as I don't think the council own it (it belongs to English Partnerships, doesn't it?) but either way I can't see KT being naive enough to undermine his position on this by dismissing a land grab for a dirty great chunk of real estate as "small changes".

Yes you are right i forgot that.  I was just thinking of land that was in Cardoza's old masterplan as that was included.  I assume it is just all of the rough ground next to the athletics track rather than just the athletics track.
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