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It's not coming home

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Author Topic: It's not coming home  (Read 2297 times)
Gen.Disorda
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« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2018, 12:45:54 pm »


Some strange comments there! You omit Maguire,Dyer and Stone who all did ok. Where your argument falls down is you resort to ifs and buts or even personal rhetorical. IMO we should have been 2-0 up by half time and most likely game over. You might have mentioned the brutality of the Colombians and similar tactics by the Croats.

I can't agree with Dier, I think he was poor. He scored the winning penalty but it was a poor penalty and lucky to go in.

My stand outs would Pickford, Trippier, Henderson , Maguire and Stones.
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« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2018, 12:59:09 pm »

Once again we're not good enough - few players of true international standout stature, maybe not as fit as the opposition at times, and some poor tactical decisions. For a relatively young side the performances were ok and Southgate was an inspiring manager but when the talent coming forward isn't good enough we'll always fall short. If this side stays together it may be more competitive in a couple of years.
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« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2018, 13:31:29 pm »

Just not quite good enough.
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« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2018, 14:07:40 pm »



Some strange comments there! You omit Maguire,Dyer and Stone who all did ok. Where your argument falls down is you resort to ifs and buts or even personal rhetorical. IMO we should have been 2-0 up by half time and most likely game over. You might have mentioned the brutality of the Colombians and similar tactics by the Croats.


England went all out to try and win the match in the first half, with a Kloppesque 'geggenpress' style opening, followed by sitting deep and kicking it long for Sterling to chase and try and beat their centre-backs for pace. Due entirely to this specific strategy for the first 20-25 minutes they were the better team and could have had a second, but they missed the couple of chances they had. Unfortunately that tactic can't be sustained for an entire match, and often comes with the price of sapping energy for the rest of the match and typically England were somewhat drained by these early exertions. Croatia rode that early storm, began to settle into the match and by the last 10 minutes of the first half their class was beginning to shine and they were showing clear signs of being in control.

In the second Croatia largely outclassed England. England were panicking early, as evidenced by Walker 'taking one for the team' by running off with the ball at a Croatia throw-in to halt a dangerous attack. Croatia deserved their well worked and taken equaliser and should have won in the 90 (great chance that hit the inside of the post, and the rebound from that, and the great match saving stop by Pickford from Mandzukic at the end). In ET Croatia continued to be the better team, England had tired even further due to chasing the ball for over an hour and Croatia got a deserved goal and a deserved win.

Stones did OK, but I still thought Pickford and Trippier were England's best players. Maguire is lacking and was found out numerous times during the tournament. An accident waiting to happen if he plays at another WC/Euros. As regards Dier, England brought him off the bench numerous times. On the other hand, Croatia had Kovacic on the bench and did not use him. Kovacic is more talented than all of England's midfield players by a long way. Dier is simply not good enough.

Can you give some examples of the 'brutality' of the Colombians, because I must have missed these.
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« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2018, 15:54:34 pm »

I can't agree with Dier, I think he was poor. He scored the winning penalty but it was a poor penalty and lucky to go in.

My stand outs would Pickford, Trippier, Henderson , Maguire and Stones.

Sorry old boy but I like Dier and his penalty for me was sufficient.
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« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2018, 16:03:39 pm »

......

Can you give some examples of the 'brutality' of the Colombians, because I must have missed these.

Firstly to all those who say we were outclassed - I disagree had we taken our chances we would be in the final.

As for Clarence’s comment on Colombian brutality not sure if Kane would agree. I agree with the commentators on BBC that the Colombians resorted to thuggery at times. Are you sure you support England?

Somebody else mentioned we were lucky in beating Columbia  - ‘yr having a laugh’ as they say on here!
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« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2018, 16:56:47 pm »

I hate football  Embarrassed
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« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2018, 18:31:56 pm »

Perhaps chris wilder and alan knoll would make a fantastic England Manager and coach,if Gareth Southgate ever felt he has taken England as far as he can.
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« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2018, 19:15:58 pm »

Firstly to all those who say we were outclassed - I disagree had we taken our chances we would be in the final.

As for Clarence’s comment on Colombian brutality not sure if Kane would agree. I agree with the commentators on BBC that the Colombians resorted to thuggery at times. Are you sure you support England?

Somebody else mentioned we were lucky in beating Columbia  - ‘yr having a laugh’ as they say on here!

England only really had 1 great chance, which fell to Kane in the 1st half. They had 3-4 half-chances over the course of the 90, but then Croatia had a number of very good chances and multiple half chances as well. England 2 shots on target to Croatia's 7. Personally I think it's a bit of a stretch to suggest England deserved to win, only testing the keeper once more after the goal in almost 120 minutes of football.

Any examples of the Colombia 'brutality'? If you're thinking of the penalty, on close inspection the ref got it wrong, and the foul should have actually gone against Kane who was all over Sanchez. The 'headbutt' on Henderson was provoked by both Henderson and Lingard. Henderson was leaning heavily on the defender who tried to shrug him off. That he caught the underside of Henderson's chin with the top of his head was, IMO, accidental.

I agree with the view that England were fortunate to beat Colombia. England again only 2 shots on target, one of which was the penalty, which on close inspection can be shown to be an erroneous decision. Colombia were missing their best player, who is possibly one of the top 5 creative midfielders in the world. Colombia also were the better team in the 2nd half and were pretty dominant towards the end of the 90, and also for much of ET as well.
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« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2018, 19:46:18 pm »

England only really had 1 great chance, which fell to Kane in the 1st half. They had 3-4 half-chances over the course of the 90, but then Croatia had a number of very good chances and multiple half chances as well. England 2 shots on target to Croatia's 7. Personally I think it's a bit of a stretch to suggest England deserved to win, only testing the keeper once more after the goal in almost 120 minutes of football.

Any examples of the Colombia 'brutality'? If you're thinking of the penalty, on close inspection the ref got it wrong, and the foul should have actually gone against Kane who was all over Sanchez. The 'headbutt' on Henderson was provoked by both Henderson and Lingard. Henderson was leaning heavily on the defender who tried to shrug him off. That he caught the underside of Henderson's chin with the top of his head was, IMO, accidental.

I agree with the view that England were fortunate to beat Colombia. England again only 2 shots on target, one of which was the penalty, which on close inspection can be shown to be an erroneous decision. Colombia were missing their best player, who is possibly one of the top 5 creative midfielders in the world. Colombia also were the better team in the 2nd half and were pretty dominant towards the end of the 90, and also for much of ET as well.

I take it you are English?

If you are, there are lots of you around. Always look to put the national team down whenever you can, some people enjoy it and you sound like one of them. I bet if we had won the World Cup you'd be one of the first celebrating in the streets with the rest of us.   
 
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« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2018, 20:43:15 pm »

I take it you are English?

If you are, there are lots of you around. Always look to put the national team down whenever you can, some people enjoy it and you sound like one of them. I bet if we had won the World Cup you'd be one of the first celebrating in the streets with the rest of us.   
 

You tell 'im Teachers! I find it astonishing that an English Supporter can come out with such negatively contructed comments. Hope he avoids Cobblers games!
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« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2018, 20:50:12 pm »

I take it you are English?

If you are, there are lots of you around. Always look to put the national team down whenever you can, some people enjoy it and you sound like one of them. I bet if we had won the World Cup you'd be one of the first celebrating in the streets with the rest of us.   
 

Weird, I'm just stating things as I have seen them in these two particular matches. I tend to be allergic to BS and the media have been full of it over the last 3-4 weeks. Club over national team every day for me.
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« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2018, 20:52:27 pm »

You tell 'im Teachers! I find it astonishing that an English Supporter can come out with such negatively contructed comments. Hope he avoids Cobblers games!

So what do you find inaccurate about my observations? I find it astonishing how an English supporter can't handle constructive criticism of the team!

See you against Lincoln in a few weeks!  Grin
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« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2018, 20:57:53 pm »

Weird, I'm just stating things as I have seen them in these two particular matches. I tend to be allergic to BS and the media have been full of it over the last 3-4 weeks. Club over national team every day for me.

I'm born and bred in Northampton, I support my local team. But, i'm also English and always hope for the National team to do well. This World Cup they did the nation proud. What is wrong with supporting both England & NTFC - I just don't get some people.
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« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2018, 21:16:10 pm »

England only really had 1 great chance, which fell to Kane in the 1st half. ...........................................................

Well that would have made it 2-0 and probably a place in the final for us. The classy Croat team would have had to open up and commit and Sterling might have had a field day and Vardy too. Still this is all sheer conjecture. The only thing you can rejoice is that the Croats won.
It took a long time to equalize and relied on extra time to win it. The majority of reports in the Times and Telegraph certainly said we were deserved winners against Columbia with both reports commenting on Columbian 'tactics'; with the Croat game we had our chances in the first half, we didn't take them and paid the penalty. To say we were outclassed is demeaning to the England Players and Southgate; for me it took too long for the Croats to equalise let alone win. Normally classy sides dont usually require extra time to win; their classy players do it much sooner.

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« Reply #35 on: July 12, 2018, 21:27:39 pm »

So what do you find inaccurate about my observations? I find it astonishing how an English supporter can't handle constructive criticism of the team!

See you against Lincoln in a few weeks!  Grin

I think you made the mistake of being entirely negative on the two games in question. There was hardly any constructive comments on team ethics, the team working as one or even a word or two on Southgate. In other words it was a diatribe of doom with few if any positive conclusions. I bet your fun at Christmas; I look forward to your reports on Cobblers games Roll Eyes
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« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2018, 21:54:40 pm »

Well that would have made it 2-0 and probably a place in the final for us. The classy Croat team would have had to open up and commit and Sterling might have had a field day and Vardy too. Still this is all sheer conjecture. The only thing you can rejoice is that the Croats won.
It took a long time to equalize and relied on extra time to win it. The majority of reports in the Times and Telegraph certainly said we were deserved winners against Columbia with both reports commenting on Columbian 'tactics'; with the Croat game we had our chances in the first half, we didn't take them and paid the penalty. To say we were outclassed is demeaning to the England Players and Southgate; for me it took too long for the Croats to equalise let alone win. Normally classy sides dont usually require extra time to win; their classy players do it much sooner.



God knows where to start with this one!

The England players were outclassed. You can't honestly think that Henderson, Ali and Lingard are even close to the same level of Modric, Rakitic, and Perisic, or that either Maguire or Stones is a good a centre-back as Vida etc. This isn't 'demeaning' them. There's a gulf in class and it showed on the night.

Modric is arguably the midfielder of his generation, while Rakitic has been holding his own winning Champions Leagues and consecutive La Liga's in the same midfield/attack as Messi and Iniesta for the last 5 years. You're talking about the best of the best.

'For me it took too long for the Croats to equalise, let alone win'.

I can't tell if you're joking with that one! Should a team have to equalise before a certain time to prove they are the better team? And if they only win in injury time, that means they haven't showed their class? How about winning on penalties like England did with Colombia?

As regards Colombian tactics, I am well aware of the media's party line but I simply don't agree with it. To use a phrase such as 'Colombian brutality' is just flat-out incorrect. Have you ever served jury service?  Grin
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« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2018, 22:00:13 pm »

I'm born and bred in Northampton, I support my local team. But, i'm also English and always hope for the National team to do well. This World Cup they did the nation proud. What is wrong with supporting both England & NTFC - I just don't get some people.


There's nothing wrong with it. Personally I'm just indifferent to the outcome, like some people are indifferent to the outcome of the Olympics or any other international sporting events I guess.
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« Reply #38 on: July 13, 2018, 00:17:33 am »

God knows where to start with this one!

The England players were outclassed. You can't honestly think that Henderson, Ali and Lingard are even close to the same level of Modric, Rakitic, and Perisic, or that either Maguire or Stones is a good a centre-back as Vida etc. This isn't 'demeaning' them. There's a gulf in class and it showed on the night.


You're wrong here. John Stones is a absolutely brilliant ball-playing centre-back. Without him there is no way England could have played the style they did throughout the World Cup; every move started through him! Vida is good also but not as special a player.
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« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2018, 08:32:57 am »

My observations…

I felt that, until Wednesday night….we 'managed' our way through quite nicely, albeit against (in the main) moderate competition. BUT. You can only beat whose put in front of you!

The group games:

Tunisia…battered them first half, then struggled. But definitely deserved the win, albeit earned in the last minute. 7/10.

Panama…chances all went in. One of those days. I thought we played better in the first half V Tunisa than we did in this match but you can't argue with 5-0 at HT! Regardless of the opposition. 7/10.

Belgium…irrelevant. Id have done the same, fielded a 2nd 1x.

Columbia…felt we definitely deserved the win. A better ref would have ensured we'd have won it comfortably in normal time. They scored at the bitter end, despite never looking likely to score. That goal 'was one of those things'. We did look leggy in the first half of extra time but sorted ourselves in the 2nd period.  7/10.

Sweden…Easily our best performance of the World Cup, and most controlled. Comfortable. 8/10.

Croatia. First 30 minutes - excellent. Got deeper and deeper. 2nd half and extra time - Id go as far as saying we were rubbish! I've said for many years, the worst time to score is in the first 5 minutes. It relaxes the opposition and the winning team gets nervous. What I found frustrating was the lack of proactive changes made by the management; Id have brought on an enforcer 5-10 minutes into the 2nd half to help Henderson screen the defence and for us to try and take some control of the midfield area. Like for like sub Sterling/Rashford was never going to work and it didn't. The last hour of play was on a par with the performance against Iceland. Indeed, much of the game reminded me of that match…early goal, all over them, got deeper…and deeper…misplaced passes, the inevitable happened. 5/10.

Overall, we had a good world cup. I wouldn't go as far as saying it was amazing, we didn't beat a big team. BUT. What we have is a first x1 that I believe can improve significantly and give it a real go in 2-4 years time. They precisely met my expectations pre-tournament in the sense that we had a decent run and came away having given us hope for the future. I never believed they were good enough to win it this time round, that said I did get carried away with it all, I had my flags in the front windows etc! Its been a dam good 3 weeks. Our future looks bright for once!

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