Carlisle United away

[Wolvo]

Try that...

I see how it is.

[guest3230]

I thought he could have saved them both. Lewis Ward saves the first one because he's a giant.

[guest2677]

I was there and agree he kicked well and his handling was good.  The trouble is he gave away two goals that are bread and butter saves to a decent keeper. The first is really well struck and dips a bit,  but it only looks like a “wonder goal” because he gets nowhere near it. I honestly don’t remember any of Ricky’s flying into the middle the goal.

OK, I'll have a go at countering your arguement.
You were suggesting he should have been on his line and that he dived out of the way of ithe ball earlier on this thread. Now you are suggesting they were two bread and butter saves, whilst also admitting you know little about goalkeeping.
I've seen a slightly longer version of the highlights which is no basis for the following, but for the one he put onto the post, I'd say he made a meal of it. Had that gone in, I would have thought some critism was valid.
For the first goal, if it's not simply a very good strike and goal, the chief culprit has to be the nearest player to the goalscorer, Hoskins, and if not him, whoever was supposed to be picking him up.
How did it beat Cornell? Can you tell me how a ball from a free kick gets up and over a wall and past a keeper from 18/20 yards?
You say the ball dips a bit, i agree, but he shouldnt have been on his line rather where he appeared to be, just inside his six yard box. It's feasible that when the ball passed him, it was eight/nine feet in the air, and of course quite possibly also moving sideways.
Goal two. i disagree it was a miss hit strike, (unlike Crooks goal that came off his ankle). Did Cornell come out too quickly? possibly, but was Pierre tight enough? Probably not. Was Cornell solely to blame for the goal, of course not. Has anyone else been directly blamed for the two goals? I don't think so
And what do we have instead. Ward, a young keeper who has played circa 25 games at conference level, who I suspect almost no one on here has ever seen play, but who has been blindly chosen by almost every pundit on here when they announce their preferred starting line ups.
I saw nothing against Lincoln to suggest Cornell shouldnt keep the jersey for Carlisle and though not there, continue to think he should retain it for the immediacy at least. Would I prefer Ingram, O'Donnell, yes but unfortunately that option isn't open to us.

[guest2677]

Thanks Wolvo! Just seen your link.

[everbrite]

You're kidding right? It went down the middle, look at the shadow for goodness sake!

Take a look at the behind the goal video's from Wolvo and/or Deepcut - do you wish to retract your statement. I am talking about their second goal.

[guest3023]

I don't think Cornell was 'at fault' for either goal. The first was a very good shot that went enough to his right and at such a height that it made it a more difficult shot to save than it might look like at first. The second goal was a clever finish hit early, along the ground just inside the post. I don't think it was impossible to save by any means, but it wasn't easy enough to class it as a goalkeeping error.

As to his positioning for the first goal, how is it any different than the positioning of the keepers for the first two goals in this Championship match?



Cornell's positioning was fine for the first goal.

[Patmore]

Try that...

Try what? It just confirms exactly what I have been saying.
First one is clearly middle of the goal. It goes over him while he dives to his right.
Second one is clearly bobbling along the ground as it goes in. He’s too far off his line, he starts to go back, stops, jumps on the spot and never gets his feet sorted out.
If he touched the first one onto the post it is a good save. It’s hard to see that he did but Ash Taylor seems to congratulate him for it

Were others culpable for going asleep at the free kick for the first? Yes. But if you still restrict the opposition to shots from outside the box, through defenders, they should need to produce something special to beat the keeper. That means power and accuracy into the corners. On Saturday they had nothing but efforts from 18 yards plus and scored twice. It cost us.

I wouldn't mind but it is just frustrating because (a bit like the Rico and Revs thing) we’ve been here before. He’s had two previous chances under two previous managers and never lasted more than half a dozen games. The reason being that he is just not good enough. He’s 27 years old and has about 30 league appearances to his name. The reason being he is just not good enough.

There is a clear will from many to back him and that’s great. I’ll leave it for now and I’d love to be proved wrong but history suggests it will keep happening.

[Patmore]

OK, I'll have a go at countering your arguement.
You were suggesting he should have been on his line and that he dived out of the way of ithe ball earlier on this thread. Now you are suggesting they were two bread and butter saves, whilst also admitting you know little about goalkeeping.
I've seen a slightly longer version of the highlights which is no basis for the following, but for the one he put onto the post, I'd say he made a meal of it. Had that gone in, I would have thought some critism was valid.
For the first goal, if it's not simply a very good strike and goal, the chief culprit has to be the nearest player to the goalscorer, Hoskins, and if not him, whoever was supposed to be picking him up.
How did it beat Cornell? Can you tell me how a ball from a free kick gets up and over a wall and past a keeper from 18/20 yards?
You say the ball dips a bit, i agree, but he shouldnt have been on his line rather where he appeared to be, just inside his six yard box. It's feasible that when the ball passed him, it was eight/nine feet in the air, and of course quite possibly also moving sideways.
Goal two. i disagree it was a miss hit strike, (unlike Crooks goal that came off his ankle). Did Cornell come out too quickly? possibly, but was Pierre tight enough? Probably not. Was Cornell solely to blame for the goal, of course not. Has anyone else been directly blamed for the two goals? I don't think so
And what do we have instead. Ward, a young keeper who has played circa 25 games at conference level, who I suspect almost no one on here has ever seen play, but who has been blindly chosen by almost every pundit on here when they announce their preferred starting line ups.
I saw nothing against Lincoln to suggest Cornell shouldnt keep the jersey for Carlisle and though not there, continue to think he should retain it for the immediacy at least. Would I prefer Ingram, O'Donnell, yes but unfortunately that option isn't open to us.

Appreciate that you have made a genuine attempt to respond and offer a justification. I think you are the only one.

I (obviously) still disagree though. Actually I’m not saying he should be welded to his line, I just think he might be too far forward. I said I don’t know much about goalkeeping but I seem to  know at least as much as most on here who have used that line against me. Not being an expert I don’t know what the optimal starting position for a keeper would be in that situation. Maybe he is in the right spot. What I will say is that the Goal-cam/GoPro footage shows that it doesn’t actually dip or swerve. It goes over or maybe even past his left hand, into the middle of the goal.
For the second goal, he is nowhere. I’d be amazed if someone with expert GK knowledge would tell me his positioning was anything other than terrible for the second.
In response to your question about free kicks from 18 yards, I think the way they get them into the goal is a combination of pace, curl, dip and accuracy into the corners. I think their first goal had one of those elements.
Cornell is tried and tested and has always been found wanting. I just assumed we would be signing a number one this summer and have assumed the kid is it. When fit I think he should play. If he is not an upgrade on Cornell then we have made a big mistake.
Anyway, it’s clearly agree to disagree on this one, but appreciate the response.

[guest3063]

I thought he could have saved them both. Lewis Ward saves the first one because he's a giant.

Lewis Ward wasn't available due to injury, so that argument is over.

[Patmore]

I don't think Cornell was 'at fault' for either goal. The first was a very good shot that went enough to his right and at such a height that it made it a more difficult shot to save than it might look like at first. The second goal was a clever finish hit early, along the ground just inside the post. I don't think it was impossible to save by any means, but it wasn't easy enough to class it as a goalkeeping error.

As to his positioning for the first goal, how is it any different than the positioning of the keepers for the first two goals in this Championship match?



Cornell's positioning was fine for the first goal.

First up, they are not great examples as both keepers fail to make a save.

Anyway, I think Carson is a little deeper in his six yard box, but if a top GK or GK coach is saying five yards off the line is optimal then fine, I’ll happily accept that. The obvious difference is this shot did dip, curl and go right in the corner at pace. Perfectly understandable for this to beat Carson.

Contrary to the commentator’s opinion the second one is definitely goalkeeper error. He’s had a shocker there.

[guest3063]

I was a goalkeeper at local league level and I don't see anything particularly that Cornell did wrong. But if a different keeper was in goal who's to say if they would or wouldn't have saved them, nobody knows. All I can say is there are no clear errors for either goal, so lets get behind the lad and not find errors that aren't there simply because some people want Ward to replace him in goal.

[everbrite]

First up, they are not great examples as both keepers fail to make a save.

Anyway, I think Carson is a little deeper in his six yard box, but if a top GK or GK coach is saying five yards off the line is optimal then fine, I’ll happily accept that. The obvious difference is this shot did dip, curl and go right in the corner at pace. Perfectly understandable for this to beat Carson.

Contrary to the commentator’s opinion the second one is definitely goalkeeper error. He’s had a shocker there.

You approached this whole situation on Cornell in the wrong manner. It is almost as if you have embarked on a campaign to undermine his career with NTFC. From comments on here plus the video evidence it is clear that Cornell has not made any major error. This has reduced you to make hypothetical ‘errors’ against Cornell with very limited chance of post mortem success. Personally I think your ‘campaign ‘ will fail due to lack of plausible and coherent evidence. Whatever you may think of Cornel he is a Cobblers player and as such deserves our support and above all encouragement. You would be better off in offering constructive criticism rather than the undermining comments against a young player trying his best. Incidentally I thought Ingrams performances in his last few games for us which tailed off significantly. In some posts on here the writers seem to suggest that the ball in both cases entered the goal Centrally  but the videos suggest otherwise. Can you comment on this please.

[guest3023]

First up, they are not great examples as both keepers fail to make a save.

Anyway, I think Carson is a little deeper in his six yard box, but if a top GK or GK coach is saying five yards off the line is optimal then fine, I’ll happily accept that. The obvious difference is this shot did dip, curl and go right in the corner at pace. Perfectly understandable for this to beat Carson.

Contrary to the commentator’s opinion the second one is definitely goalkeeper error. He’s had a shocker there.

My main point was regarding the positioning. Both keepers are positioned at a very similar distance from the goal line as Cornell was which would indicate that this positioning is normal. A second point though is to compare Cornell's 'errors' with the errors of goalkeepers playing two divisions higher. As you say Carson couldn't do much about the first, but the fourth goal is one he probably should have saved and I agree that the Leeds keeper made a bit of a howler for Derby's goal. If these goalkeepers are deemed good enough for the Championship yet they are making those kind of errors, then are Cornell's performances really that lacking?

[guest3023]

Appreciate that you have made a genuine attempt to respond and offer a justification. I think you are the only one.

I (obviously) still disagree though. Actually I’m not saying he should be welded to his line, I just think he might be too far forward. I said I don’t know much about goalkeeping but I seem to  know at least as much as most on here who have used that line against me. Not being an expert I don’t know what the optimal starting position for a keeper would be in that situation. Maybe he is in the right spot. What I will say is that the Goal-cam/GoPro footage shows that it doesn’t actually dip or swerve. It goes over or maybe even past his left hand, into the middle of the goal.
For the second goal, he is nowhere. I’d be amazed if someone with expert GK knowledge would tell me his positioning was anything other than terrible for the second.
In response to your question about free kicks from 18 yards, I think the way they get them into the goal is a combination of pace, curl, dip and accuracy into the corners. I think their first goal had one of those elements.
Cornell is tried and tested and has always been found wanting. I just assumed we would be signing a number one this summer and have assumed the kid is it. When fit I think he should play. If he is not an upgrade on Cornell then we have made a big mistake.
Anyway, it’s clearly agree to disagree on this one, but appreciate the response.

You can't really tell from the Go Pro footage if the ball dips or swerves or not. What you can tell however is that the shot is enough to Cornell's right that he has to dive for it, meaning that he has to try and make the save with his left hand.

The poster who mentioned the shadow of the ball being in the centre I think is incorrect to use that as a guide as the game is not taking place at noon. Look at the shadows of the players. If anything the shadow would demonstrate that the shot was to Cornell's right.

I don't think it was an easy save to make at all and that if he had saved it it would have gone down as an excellent save.

[Patmore]

You can see the ball flight from a long way out and it neither dips or swerves.

The ball does go slightly to his right, but still in area most would very much view as the centre of the goal.  And if it is to his right, surely he would be better to go with his right hand anyway?

It’s not personal. He seems a decent enough lad based on the little I know or see. Unfortunately he’s just not very good.

[Ron Obvious]

Unfortunately he’s just not very good.

Like your judgement of goalkeepers then 

Seriously though I don't understand some people hoping we play an injured player instead of him. Coddington and maybe they have a case although personally I have seen him play only once and that didn't turn out to well. Coddington in goal tonight maybe?

[Deepcut Cobbler]

You can see the ball flight from a long way out and it neither dips or swerves.

The ball does go slightly to his right, but still in area most would very much view as the centre of the goal.  And if it is to his right, surely he would be better to go with his right hand anyway?

It’s not personal. He seems a decent enough lad based on the little I know or see. Unfortunately he’s just not very good.

Doesn't it?

Would he?

Isn't he, based on what?

[GrangeParkCobbler]

Let it go!! Cornell is a goalkeeper for a 4th division football team...he isn’t Premier League, although some of the comments on here seem to expect him to be!!

[Dan]

Doesn't it?

Would he?

Isn't he, based on what?

How about the fact we have won just 2 league games that he has started for us. Or the fact in 13 league starts, he has conceded 27 goals so averages more than 2 a game?

Edited to add that I do think the criticism of him for Saturday is unfair. The actual issue for both goals was the fact no-one in the team tried to tackle or pressure Carlisle at any point.

[guest3023]

You can see the ball flight from a long way out and it neither dips or swerves.

The ball does go slightly to his right, but still in area most would very much view as the centre of the goal.  And if it is to his right, surely he would be better to go with his right hand anyway?

It’s not personal. He seems a decent enough lad based on the little I know or see. Unfortunately he’s just not very good.

It's clearly to his right, meaning he has to dive to try and save it. It doesn't matter whether it is only a bit to the right or going in the top corner, he still has to dive. The shot is high so his best chance of reaching it when diving to his right is with his left hand. It's not a clear and obvious error IMO.