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Trust Making Bid for Fan Ownership?

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Author Topic: Trust Making Bid for Fan Ownership?  (Read 4030 times)
BedsCobb
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« Reply #120 on: December 04, 2018, 20:34:00 pm »

When we, as fans, couldn't manage to raise the money to stay afloat the other season what on Earth makes you think we'd be able to raise the money to not only run the club year after year but to extend the stadium? Any of you can answer as I certainly don't expect Beds to.
We are only 5000 of an untapped 300,000.
A steady sustainable growth plan over the next 5 seasons in order to expand every aspect of our club by 50%. Gates, food and beverage,  corporate income, sponsorship etc allowing to us to improve player budgets and  be able to  buy and sell players as most clubs are able and obviously a better established league position, league 1 top half would have them flocking.
It really is that easy.

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BedsCobb
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« Reply #121 on: December 04, 2018, 20:38:50 pm »



Bravo.  Smiley

Best, most balanced post I have seen on this forum for a long while.


The key question in my opinion is, how brave are we feeling to take a step into the (relatively) unknown?

Of course, all this assumes KT would even contemplate relinquishing his control to a collective.
You might not have an option Kelvin.
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tcobb
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« Reply #122 on: December 04, 2018, 20:40:40 pm »

All sounds good Beds.
How would you put all these into practice and for your plan to work.
I wonder if you will answer?
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« Reply #123 on: December 04, 2018, 20:43:47 pm »

Beds is an ideas man not a detail man
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The 12th Marquis of Sixfields
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« Reply #124 on: December 04, 2018, 20:45:29 pm »

We are only 5000 of an untapped 300,000.
A steady sustainable growth plan over the next 5 seasons in order to expand every aspect of our club by 50%. Gates, food and beverage,  corporate income, sponsorship etc allowing to us to improve player budgets and  be able to  buy and sell players as most clubs are able and obviously a better established league position, league 1 top half would have them flocking.
It really is that easy.


Hi.

The 295,00 wasn't fussed about SAVING the club. Why would they be bothered about building it a new stand?
If it's that easy then why don't the 85 clubs without billionaire owners do it?
You want to grow the gates by 50%? They'd still be able to fit inside Sixfields as it is
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« Reply #125 on: December 04, 2018, 20:54:56 pm »

We are only 5000 of an untapped 300,000.
A steady sustainable growth plan over the next 5 seasons in order to expand every aspect of our club by 50%. Gates, food and beverage,  corporate income, sponsorship etc allowing to us to improve player budgets and  be able to  buy and sell players as most clubs are able and obviously a better established league position, league 1 top half would have them flocking.
It really is that easy.



Have you considered offering your services as an advisor?
 Football clubs up and down the country would snap your hand off for this type of insight. Sell more tickets, sell more food, attract more corporate clients and soon you'll find yourself beating off all these big multinationals with a stick, all of whom are just desperate to sponsor you. Genius! I really don't know why clubs don't think of this sort of thing themselves.
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« Reply #126 on: December 04, 2018, 20:56:45 pm »

Have you considered offering your services as an advisor?
 Football clubs up and down the country would snap your hand off for this type of insight. Sell more tickets, sell more food, attract more corporate clients and soon you'll find yourself beating off all these big multinationals with a stick, all of whom are just desperate to sponsor you. Genius! I really don't know why clubs don't think of this sort of thing themselves.

Bugger that, we might need a new PM soon  Tongue
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« Reply #127 on: December 04, 2018, 22:01:31 pm »

Bugger that, we might need a new PM soon  Tongue
Seriously Franky boy you need to find a life outside this board, just this persona is averaging 7 posts a day way more than everybody else, sad really.
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« Reply #128 on: December 04, 2018, 22:38:50 pm »

Seriously Franky boy you need to find a life outside this board, just this persona is averaging 7 posts a day way more than everybody else, sad really.

Speaks a lot of sense tho'
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« Reply #129 on: December 04, 2018, 23:38:40 pm »

Seriously Franky boy you need to find a life outside this board, just this persona is averaging 7 posts a day way more than everybody else, sad really.



You are obviously a fan  Grin    Glad you like me  Kiss
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« Reply #130 on: December 04, 2018, 23:56:51 pm »

many of those 295000 were not interested as the owner had pocketed £10m

However 7000 were interested enough to travel to MK on the possibility that we would play Chelsea at home, and that even though 1500 of them wouldn't even have got tickets !!

I would be pretty confident that we would attract more support and investment than either Exeter or Wycombe.

Again it would not be easy and it would need a lot of changes of attitude from both fans and staff (including players etc) to at least give it a chance

Can't see how we really would be any worse of than we are now. Honestly does anyone on here believe there will be anything other than mid table Div 2 and little to no changes to ambition / development under KT???


 
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« Reply #131 on: December 05, 2018, 00:45:13 am »

At the moment I can not see much improvement happening under KT, unless he invests a lot in the January window, plus there is some positive news on the East Stand.
I can not see a fan based club investing at all and that puts a downer on the whole idea.
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« Reply #132 on: December 05, 2018, 01:11:12 am »



Can't see how we really would be any worse of than we are now. Honestly does anyone on here believe there will be anything other than mid table Div 2 and little to no changes to ambition / development under KT???


 

Get a working group together and start discussing it properly. It could work. You lot have gotta do something about it though.
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« Reply #133 on: December 05, 2018, 09:18:40 am »

Iíve read up about fan ownership over the years and remain undecided not massively in favour but can see some benefits.  Iíll explain why.
Letís look at Exeter who have been mentioned frequently on this board in recent weeks as a successful template that could be followed.
The positive side of their fan ownership has been clear.  Fans are more engaged, they have more of a say and provide a key group of volunteers who put in countless hours free of charge to carry out work at the club.  The trust I believe invests circa 100K per year into the club.  I donít know how this is raised but itís a pretty impressive sum.

The trust as majority owners have the final say and set the rules that the people employed to run the club do so within its means with all that this entails.  No debt, overdrafts or other borrowings.  Budgets are set and stuck to.  Only when ďwindfallsĒ occur do they do more.  They split all windfalls in 3 ways, youth development, playing budget and infrastructure.
Windfalls only come from cup runs, play off finals or the sale of players.  Over the years these windfalls have been large but they have also had some very barren years.  For instance, the cup games against Man United several years ago cleared the clubs inherited debts pretty much.  Player windfalls have funded the creation of a 3G training pitch etc.

Now as good as those good years can be there are bad years.  Knocked out of the cups and no valuable youth players.  Poor league position and dips in crowds.  In this instance well, they just have to live within their means and cut their cloth accordingly.  This is where it gets difficult though.  They had to get a PFA loan during one of those periods to pay players and couldnít sign anyone till several weeks in to the new season.  Lower gates than expected can cause big problems.
  
Their trust has admitted that itís tough balancing the books and they donít tend to receive much praise for doing so when results are not great on the pitch.  They have also admitted they are in an ever increasingly competitive environment where they have to increase budgets just to stay where they are.  They give managers a mid-table budget and expect them to over perform with it.  Meanwhile their competition and some teams in non league are throwing large sums of money at their club.

In fairness whoever employed Tisdale did great as it saved them a fortune over the years as they never needed to sack a manager and he was someone who was willing to work within the tight restrictions.  No January transfer budget for him unless a windfall occurred.
Of course, maybe this is a positive in some respects as it forces the manager to work with what heís got.  They are big on youth development and again this likely push youth players forward quicker than they would elsewhere.  However, Tisdale wasnít universally loved at Exeter as again with all supporters do, they really understand the restrictions he was working under?
  
Also, what is success?  Exeter have done well in league two most years with a manager and squad that have over performed their budget.  But is that their limit under this model.  A lot of people think so.  Their recent ground development was mainly funded by enabling money from a council land sale and the developers.  The development was needed desperately as the old stand was nearly 100 years old and just about squeezed through safety checks each year.  The new stand has added facilities which were needed but didnít increase on the original capacity I understand.

So, as you can see there is a lot to like about the model BUT itís not without massive challenges.  Certainly, itís not going to deliver what some on here dream and fantasise about.  The reality is that without massive unexpected windfalls, enabling development we would likely remain as we are.  Probably a nicer more inclusive club to be a part of but forget dreams of a 10K plus stadium and championship potentially even league one football.

Finally, again a lot of people sing the praises of Wycombe as a similar successful model following their promotion to league one.  Bear in mind they are currently looking for private investors to take over a majority share in the club as they have acknowledged the current model can only take them so far.  Again, another club with a manager and budget that has massively over achieved.
So is it better than the current situation?

Great well balanced and thought out post. I think that a fan owned club is a great idea but there are an awful lot of hurdles to overcome to make it work. I talk frequently with a friend who is a big Wrexham fan and close to their board (fan owned) and he says the fans love having the control of their club, however, they find it difficult to hang on to manager and players when they are doing well as they cannot give them the money they can get elsewhere.

The only way this can happen is if the trust and those supporters who want it sit down and come up with a workable plan and model for how to take it forward.
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« Reply #134 on: December 05, 2018, 10:12:51 am »

There you go Tcobb, that is one area where there is a problem

The vast majority of fans are only really interested in signing new players. Most think that a chairman is great if he does this, both DC and KT did, they ignore the reason why we have constantly done this and got nowhere.

I am generally against constantly signing new players for a few reasons,  we should not sign 1 player in January (unless it is a wonder kid of peanut wages) why do we need to, what is the point? what are we going to achieve by it?  Forget the play-offs, forget promotion, does it really matter if we finished 17th or 9th?

So for me we don't need that investment at the moment, we first need plans, short, medium and long term, on every aspect of the football club. We need a manager who will develop and coach players, who tries to play entertaining / attacking football, who hates losing but isn't afraid of losing. I have never understood at our level why we have managers who just play not to lose, the amount of parents who came as their kids were in the half time games and promptly left straight after was staggering. (most of the time i didn't blame them as the game was rubbish as are the facilities)

In todays world, presentation and experience if everything. For example I have visited Cineworld twice recently and both times the films were basically sold out, went down to Vue and watched same film 45 mins later and there were 4 of us in there - FOUR compared to sold out 2 miles down the road. Cineworld is bright, modern and convenient whilst Vue / Sol Central is dull, old fashioned and a hassle (for some) to get into.



 

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« Reply #135 on: December 05, 2018, 10:17:02 am »

What sort of plan would you like?

If i produce a plan are you going to start putting pressure on KT to sell NTFC shares to us for the same price he paid for it?  (£1 if you forgot) - He can keep the land, so I think it is a fair deal. If that doesn't swing it we will promise to make him an MBE, Chairman of the Premier League and arrange a twerking session with anyone famous he would like  - Afterall as long as we get what we want we can promise anything !
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« Reply #136 on: December 05, 2018, 10:25:03 am »

I think the point is it's very easy to throw things around on here and social media, what I personally would like to see is a proper approach by those advocating this new style of ownership. Maybe that's happening behind closed doors, who knows.

As fans I think it would be remiss to dismiss all ownership ideas without properly understanding them. Can't currently do that until an approach/idea can be taken seriously.
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« Reply #137 on: December 05, 2018, 10:35:57 am »

I think the point is it's very easy to throw things around on here and social media, what I personally would like to see is a proper approach by those advocating this new style of ownership. Maybe that's happening behind closed doors, who knows.

As fans I think it would be remiss to dismiss all ownership ideas without properly understanding them. Can't currently do that until an approach/idea can be taken seriously.

Agreed.
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« Reply #138 on: December 05, 2018, 14:32:28 pm »

Would You be OK with a well managed, well promoted and fully open community club that could be open to take over offers should the very right people come along?
 Even if Only to escape the clutches of these latest time wasters.

If the two options are KT running the club with no progression until the right take over or the fans running the club with no progression until the right take over then its KT all day for me for the reason he has a pot of money that I dont believe the fans have, or could get.

There are clearly pros and cons to all of this and generally to discussion from all is valid to an extent but one thing that does annoy me with these conversations is the statement that KT bought the club for £1. He didnt. £1 is a legal thing that allows the contrats etc to be legally transfered. He bought the club for at least £900k which was the tax bill he had to pay plus what ever other bills we had outstanding. I would be amazed if he spent less than £1m. Im not saying the club is worth £2m that some claim he is asking for but the cost to him to buy the club was around £1m and not £1
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« Reply #139 on: December 05, 2018, 15:46:40 pm »

The tax bill was around £166k

How much did he get for Ricky Holmes plus other increased income due to big crowds etc that season

The club has a turnover of around £4m per year, that pays most of the bills

The £1 wasn't just a legal thing, DC wanted out asap and accepted £1, the club was worth a bit more than that but it was a fire sale

Since when exactly has KT had a pot of money that he has been willing to invest in the medium term future of the club??  Just like DC he threw away money on bad management and players because the club is so run down that is all we can attract, players and management happy to just accept playing football and paying the mortgage.

Cobblerwatch and Tcobb if you are not anti fan owned club etc then why not question unicobbler's post, who clearly doesn't want fans running the club as he is happy for KT to stay even though we are and will go nowhere. Actually say something that demonstrates your beliefs


 
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