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Kelvin Thomas

Poll
Question: Should KT remain in his position at NTFC ?  (Voting closed: January 15, 2019, 22:03:57 pm)
Yes - 40 (51.9%)
No - 37 (48.1%)
Total Voters: 74

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Author Topic: Kelvin Thomas  (Read 6901 times)
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« Reply #80 on: January 11, 2019, 15:56:37 pm »

The only mention of the amount invested by the Chinese appeared in the Mail on Sunday in an article written by an eminent football journalist/writer, Ian Herbert, who reported it was thought to be in the region of £6 million.  Whatever may be the accuracy of the figure in the Mail no money "invested" went to Ventures but Thomas announced to the world that the Chinese had acquired a 60% holding in the company.  This was followed by Bower resigning from the Board of Ventures and the Chinese appointed 2 directors. With Thomas remaining on the Board the Chinese had a 2:1 majority at board level.  The board changes were the only filings made at Companies House and appear to be deficient.  I think it can be stated with confidence that a transaction took place and it would follow from this that money changed hands.  If that is so the money did not go into Ventures in return for new shares issued to the Chinese. So, where did it go and to who?  It could only have gone to Fantastical Ltd (Bower's English corporate vehicle holding 65% of Ventures shares , Thomas (22.5%) and Bower (12.5%) personally.  

Consider this against the situation facing us at our club on and off the pitch.

 
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« Reply #81 on: January 11, 2019, 16:11:31 pm »

The only mention of the amount invested by the Chinese appeared in the Mail on Sunday in an article written by an eminent football journalist/writer, Ian Herbert, who reported it was thought to be in the region of £6 million.  Whatever may be the accuracy of the figure in the Mail no money "invested" went to Ventures but Thomas announced to the world that the Chinese had acquired a 60% holding in the company.  This was followed by Bower resigning from the Board of Ventures and the Chinese appointed 2 directors. With Thomas remaining on the Board the Chinese had a 2:1 majority at board level.  The board changes were the only filings made at Companies House and appear to be deficient.  I think it can be stated with confidence that a transaction took place and it would follow from this that money changed hands.  If that is so the money did not go into Ventures in return for new shares issued to the Chinese. So, where did it go and to who?  It could only have gone to Fantastical Ltd (Bower's English corporate vehicle holding 65% of Ventures shares , Thomas (22.5%) and Bower (12.5%) personally.  

Consider this against the situation facing us at our club on and off the pitch.

 

Logical but does rely on something of a leap ('money changed hands').

It could just as easily be that money was promised and, regardless of KT and co.'s intentions for that money, it never materialised. Or it could be that the investment (or a portion of it) was returned when the agreement broke down. I find it difficult to believe that the Chinese investors sunk millions of pounds (which has since disappeared into KT and DB's pockets) and then walked away, taking none of it with them.
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« Reply #82 on: January 11, 2019, 16:12:51 pm »

The only mention of the amount invested by the Chinese appeared in the Mail on Sunday in an article written by an eminent football journalist/writer, Ian Herbert, who reported it was thought to be in the region of £6 million.  Whatever may be the accuracy of the figure in the Mail no money "invested" went to Ventures but Thomas announced to the world that the Chinese had acquired a 60% holding in the company.  This was followed by Bower resigning from the Board of Ventures and the Chinese appointed 2 directors. With Thomas remaining on the Board the Chinese had a 2:1 majority at board level.  The board changes were the only filings made at Companies House and appear to be deficient.  I think it can be stated with confidence that a transaction took place and it would follow from this that money changed hands.  If that is so the money did not go into Ventures in return for new shares issued to the Chinese. So, where did it go and to who?  It could only have gone to Fantastical Ltd (Bower's English corporate vehicle holding 65% of Ventures shares , Thomas (22.5%) and Bower (12.5%) personally.  

Consider this against the situation facing us at our club on and off the pitch.

 

The murky world of shell companies and holding companies!

Ventures, Fantastical, Belle De Jour, County Developments (Northampton) Ltd.....not one mention of Northampton Town Football Club.

It was also stated that Kelvin and David ‘bought’ the 60% shareholding back....again implying that money changed hands. Try and find a sign of it in any accounts though!
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« Reply #83 on: January 11, 2019, 16:13:08 pm »

The only mention of the amount invested by the Chinese appeared in the Mail on Sunday in an article written by an eminent football journalist/writer, Ian Herbert, who reported it was thought to be in the region of £6 million.  Whatever may be the accuracy of the figure in the Mail no money "invested" went to Ventures but Thomas announced to the world that the Chinese had acquired a 60% holding in the company.  This was followed by Bower resigning from the Board of Ventures and the Chinese appointed 2 directors. With Thomas remaining on the Board the Chinese had a 2:1 majority at board level.  The board changes were the only filings made at Companies House and appear to be deficient.  I think it can be stated with confidence that a transaction took place and it would follow from this that money changed hands.  If that is so the money did not go into Ventures in return for new shares issued to the Chinese. So, where did it go and to who?  It could only have gone to Fantastical Ltd (Bower's English corporate vehicle holding 65% of Ventures shares , Thomas (22.5%) and Bower (12.5%) personally.  

Consider this against the situation facing us at our club on and off the pitch.

 

According to the BBC report at the time, the deal went sour due to Chinese investment restrictions and the Chinese were forced to sell back their share holding.  

In order for KT to make a clear profit as suggested, he first had to sell a % of the business for an extortionate amount and secondly buy it back less than a year later for peanuts.  Neither of which seem plausible.
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« Reply #84 on: January 11, 2019, 16:18:46 pm »

In order for KT to make a clear profit as suggested, he first had to sell a % of the business for an extortionate amount and secondly buy it back less than a year later for peanuts.  Neither of which seem plausible.

This is a much more succinct version of what I'm trying to get at!
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« Reply #85 on: January 11, 2019, 16:26:47 pm »

Don't lose sight of the fact that Bower (90% owner now) is a highly experienced lawyer and Thomas, his front man, is not naive.  They did not come down with the last shower.  Consider how they completely out manoeuvred the Council on the CDNL land.  No one, I suggest, gives up control of the parent company of an EFL club on a promise of money. It doesn't happen and not with seasoned operators like our owners. How much money moved only those directly involved know but we have to apply a degree of logic to what was announced and what is in the public domain. 

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« Reply #86 on: January 11, 2019, 16:53:17 pm »

Don't lose sight of the fact that Bower (90% owner now) is a highly experienced lawyer and Thomas, his front man, is not naive.  They did not come down with the last shower.  Consider how they completely out manoeuvred the Council on the CDNL land.  No one, I suggest, gives up control of the parent company of an EFL club on a promise of money. It doesn't happen and not with seasoned operators like our owners. How much money moved only those directly involved know but we have to apply a degree of logic to what was announced and what is in the public domain. 



I see your point, but to suggest that the Chinese investors walked away £7m down with no noise beyond a point-scoring public statement doesn't seem that logical to me.

Difficult to argue on the payment terms with no intimate knowledge of this or any other football club purchase process, but it would not be unusual in the wider business world for at least part of the consideration to be paid over time. That's what contracts are for and, as you say, Bower is a highly experienced lawyer.
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« Reply #87 on: January 11, 2019, 17:03:55 pm »

I never said how much changed hands because I have no idea.  What i said was that the Mail on Sunday reported an investment in the region of £6 million.  As to whether that amount was paid I haven't a clue but applying common sense and a bit of business sense 50% is not improbable.  Of course, all would be clarified if our owners told us but like almost everything concerning our present ownership I give that about as much chance as a heatwave in Northampton this weekend.
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« Reply #88 on: January 11, 2019, 17:05:16 pm »

Considering 5USports "bought" their 60% stake in the club at the end of June, and then we went and brought in no fewer than 14 permanent signings before it was announced that KT had "bought" the shares back, isn't it fair to assume that some sort of money came into the club?

Unless the suggestion again is that these astute businessmen invested what they did in the squad and the management changes "on a promise"

Those same signings, on the bloated wages, are what is costing us dearly now.
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« Reply #89 on: January 11, 2019, 17:07:03 pm »

I never said how much changed hands because I have no idea.  What i said was that the Mail on Sunday reported an investment in the region of £6 million.  As to whether that amount was paid I haven't a clue but applying common sense and a bit of business sense 50% is not improbable.  Of course, all would be clarified if our owners told us but like almost everything concerning our present ownership I give that about as much chance as a heatwave in Northampton this weekend.

Why on earth should they reveal the amounts involved or the payment terms? Applying a bit of business sense, I'd go as far as to say that wouldn't be especially well advised.
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« Reply #90 on: January 11, 2019, 17:15:01 pm »

Because some transparency would give us mere supporters a degree of trust and confidence in our owners. But that is not their purpose and if you are unable to put 2 & 2 together that is a matter for you.
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« Reply #91 on: January 11, 2019, 17:16:39 pm »

Because some transparency would give us mere supporters a degree of trust and confidence in our owners. But that is not their purpose and if you are unable to put 2 & 2 together that is a matter for you.

I am unable to put 2 & 2 together, so could you help me out with what you're getting at?
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« Reply #92 on: January 11, 2019, 17:17:48 pm »

It's all set out clearly enough. I leave it to you.
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« Reply #93 on: January 11, 2019, 18:24:18 pm »

If they paid £6m for £60% does that mean that at the time the club was valued at £10m?
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« Reply #94 on: January 11, 2019, 18:31:51 pm »

No, Ventures' holding in NTFC is just under 84% due to historical shares held elsewhere if that was the basis of valuation.
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« Reply #95 on: January 11, 2019, 18:36:57 pm »

If KT managed to profit by circa £5-7m in the space of less than a year by selling a stake in the club and then buying it back then he is a genius. 
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« Reply #96 on: January 11, 2019, 18:45:04 pm »

If KT managed to profit by circa £5-7m in the space of less than a year by selling a stake in the club and then buying it back then he is a genius. 
Did they try to get the Chinese to finish the east stand as part of the 60% shares in what ever it was they paid into?
That would've been a good move 🤣
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« Reply #97 on: January 11, 2019, 18:58:05 pm »

No, Ventures' holding in NTFC is just under 84% due to historical shares held elsewhere if that was the basis of valuation.

So more than £10m then.
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« Reply #98 on: January 11, 2019, 19:47:30 pm »

So more than £10m then.

I can’t believe for one second that the Chinese had 10m to invest in the cobblers.  Bit like the ‘we lost 300k’ on the VV purchase/sale. Garbage.
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« Reply #99 on: January 11, 2019, 20:00:00 pm »

Mr Thomas please tell us your future plans for NTFC!

FOUR players (including our 2 most skillful) gone, ONE in!
NO development of the East Stand!
NTFC now control less land?
A cut in the playing budget this year!
You have been unable to sell the club!

What future can you provide?
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