The Hotel End
February 23, 2019, 23:02:23 pm
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
  Home Help Search Arcade Gallery Links Staff List Calendar Login Register  

Fan Ownership

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Fan Ownership  (Read 7247 times)
Battery Man
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 181


View Profile
« Reply #120 on: February 04, 2019, 12:52:04 pm »

I think the only thing putting people off backing a fan owned club is the uncertainty on financing the club, however, we have seen many times over the last 35 to 40 years that having a private owner in no way means a club is securely and well financed. I think fan ownership is certainly worth looking at in some depth, as if the finances can be put in place at least to ensure we are in no worse a position than now then why not. At least we would know the owners only wants whats best for the club.
Report Spam   Logged
BedsCobb
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2233


View Profile
« Reply #121 on: February 04, 2019, 13:16:16 pm »

The only reason that people could oppose the concept of 'community ownership' is a financial one surely? All things being equal, I'm sure almost every football supporter in the world would prefer their club to be owned by supporters rather than individuals..

It is a very legitimate argument that there are very few successful fan/community ownership models that have worked in the long run in the UK. However, this doesn't mean that it couldn't work for the cobblers...each club's circumstances are different, the 'assets' of each club are different and the skills and expertise of the supporters are different.

I can't see why everybody shouldn't welcome the Trust's exploration of options. It is encouraging that the present owners are prepared to at least talk to the supporters trust. You can think about a huge number of clubs where supporters are completely cut out of any dialogue with the club. Some club owners have even resorted to legal action for defamation against supporters who post adverse comments on notice boards etc.

Whatever you might think of the present owners, they deserve quite a lot of credit for their openness..

The other things about the club is the fact that it has to be run as a business. It has two ways of operating: it either operates at a loss that requires financial support from its owners or it breaks even/makes a profit and doesn't need that financial support.

Historically, since the turn of 2000, the club has operated at a loss almost every year - in total it lost £6m under the Cardoza's (Im not quite sure why someone queried this figure the other day) and for the last published accounts the club lost about £250,000. The next accounts are due at the end of March but in KT's interview he alludes to making a loss this year as well.

Therefore, in any credible community owned club there will have to be a recognition of the fact that the club is not currently financially self sustaining and hasn't been largely for many years - this is a FACT!

For all of the claims about future revenue streams and the good ideas on here, the reality is the club needs more resources or to cut its expenditure. But even cutting expenditure is not enough - were the club to ever be 100% supporter owned no bank would ever support this model without a substantial cash reserve in case the club got into financial difficulties - this again is fact.

Therefore, the idea of a hybrid ownership model makes sense because the 'larger private owners' might be the 'lenders of the last resort' in case of difficulty, but they in turn will want control..who would invest, say £50,000 each, into a club where the spending decisions are being made by other people?

Hence NBC's idea in 2013 that the club needed to be put onto a more sustainable financial footing (i.e to become profitable) by using the land around the East Stand. What happened next of course was a fiasco but the idea was very good even if the execution was very poor.

Now, KT and others have the chance to work with NBC and private developers to deliver on NBC's idea of 2013 - i.e. to use the land to generate profits to pay for the development of a ground and club that is financially sustainable.

There are a great number of issues around the basic concept and nobody outside NBC or the club know what the basis of the discussions currently are.What are NBCs objectives? How does KT see the future?

It is a very difficult situation: on the one hand NBC is an elected body and as council tax payers everybody has a right to know what is going on.

At the same time, the club and land around the East Stand is in private hands and why should private developers explain to the public what they are up to? Do you show your bank balance to the neighbours?

So in summary, I think the Supporters Trust is absolutely right to explore models of supporter and community ownership at this time. I hope that NBC and KT are in a position as soon as possible to explain their plans and the supporters and council tax payers van then evaluate them.

Now for three 3 points...


You can not claim to have lost £6m over 10 years because you are trading at 25% of your capabilities  due to very poor infrastructure , bad management and zero growth.
How much of  that £6m could've had us trading 50% up over several years of he sustained such losses?
For years we have tried to build teams that could achieve promotion out of league 2 but only to sell the back bone of the team for a fraction of there worth when Sixfields inadequacy kicks in.
With a supporters/ local buisneses working together with full understanding of the job in hand, all involved would soon see steady improvements in all the key areas that increase turnover, resulting in more breaking even than losses.
So KT has announced we expect to show a loss.
After 20 years trying to buck the trend of a well trod path, no one should really be surprised.  
« Last Edit: February 04, 2019, 13:19:46 pm by BedsCobb » Report Spam   Logged
Manwork04
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2403



View Profile
« Reply #122 on: February 04, 2019, 13:48:34 pm »

Thomas isn't going to sell a 50% share to anyone that does not meet his valuation, currently about £2m.
Report Spam   Logged

Rule Britannia
meccanostand
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1052


View Profile
« Reply #123 on: February 07, 2019, 10:55:05 am »

Fan-owned Newport County through to FA Cup Round 5 at home to Man City. Team features ex-Cobbler Regan Poole.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-47143918
Report Spam   Logged
Melbourne Cobbler
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1088


View Profile
« Reply #124 on: February 07, 2019, 20:09:22 pm »

I think the only thing putting people off backing a fan owned club is the uncertainty on financing the club, however, we have seen many times over the last 35 to 40 years that having a private owner in no way means a club is securely and well financed. I think fan ownership is certainly worth looking at in some depth, as if the finances can be put in place at least to ensure we are in no worse a position than now then why not. At least we would know the owners only wants whats best for the club.
Donít kid yourself, itís not the only thing. Along with a couple of other points the thing concerning me is that some of the individuals on here end up in a position of significant influence in the decision making process. I have visions of the board room being like scenes from the Mad Hatters tea party.
Report Spam   Logged

Chairman, Paul Stratford Fanclub & proud member of the Steve Massey Appreciation Society (Though refuse to be in his fan club on account of his crap goal celebration in front of the Hotel End when playing for Wrexham)
FezNTFC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1294


View Profile
« Reply #125 on: February 07, 2019, 20:18:07 pm »

Donít kid yourself, itís not the only thing. Along with a couple of other points the thing concerning me is that some of the individuals on here end up in a position of significant influence in the decision making process. I have visions of the board room being like scenes from the Mad Hatters tea party.
To clarify again.

Another important thing to remember is that the current Trust board would not be running the show. They would bring in professionals to run the football club. No supporters owned club is run by the people who used to run the car boot sales or make the coffees on matchdays.

Add 'argue on the forum' to that list Grin
Report Spam   Logged
Melbourne Cobbler
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1088


View Profile
« Reply #126 on: February 07, 2019, 20:41:35 pm »

To clarify again.

Add 'argue on the forum' to that list Grin
To continue the row, who are the ďtheyĒ who bring in the professionals?
Report Spam   Logged

Chairman, Paul Stratford Fanclub & proud member of the Steve Massey Appreciation Society (Though refuse to be in his fan club on account of his crap goal celebration in front of the Hotel End when playing for Wrexham)
FezNTFC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1294


View Profile
« Reply #127 on: February 07, 2019, 20:51:07 pm »

To continue the row, who are the ďtheyĒ who bring in the professionals?
I don't know. We don't know what the model is yet or whether it would get to that stage.

It if was majority fan owned I assume the Trust board would bring someone in, most likely with the aid of Supporters Direct who would have plenty of contacts within that field.

If there's a hybrid model of fan ownership and a private individual or consortium, those individuals or groups would probably want some say on who runs the show.
Report Spam   Logged
Melbourne Cobbler
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1088


View Profile
« Reply #128 on: February 07, 2019, 20:54:49 pm »

I don't know. We don't know what the model is yet or whether it would get to that stage.

It if was majority fan owned I assume the Trust board would bring someone in, most likely with the aid of Supporters Direct who would have plenty of contacts within that field.

If there's a hybrid model of fan ownership and a private individual or consortium, those individuals or groups would probably want some say on who runs the show.
Understood, so to repeat my original point, the thing concerning me is that some of the individuals on here end up in a position of significant influence in the decision making process. I have visions of the board room being like scenes from the Mad Hatters tea party. Get me a piece of chalk someone?
Report Spam   Logged

Chairman, Paul Stratford Fanclub & proud member of the Steve Massey Appreciation Society (Though refuse to be in his fan club on account of his crap goal celebration in front of the Hotel End when playing for Wrexham)
Battery Man
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 181


View Profile
« Reply #129 on: February 07, 2019, 20:58:45 pm »

Understood, so to repeat my original point, the thing concerning me is that some of the individuals on here end up in a position of significant influence in the decision making process. I have visions of the board room being like scenes from the Mad Hatters tea party. Get me a piece of chalk someone?

I do share your concerns on this. Letís see what the trust are proposing and I think after that we will see if the idea could work.
Report Spam   Logged
FezNTFC
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1294


View Profile
« Reply #130 on: February 07, 2019, 21:02:50 pm »

Understood, so to repeat my original point, the thing concerning me is that some of the individuals on here end up in a position of significant influence in the decision making process. I have visions of the board room being like scenes from the Mad Hatters tea party. Get me a piece of chalk someone?
I understood 'decision making process' to mean the running of the club itself, as you mentioned the boardroom. Hence my response.
Report Spam   Logged
Alfred
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1458


View Profile
« Reply #131 on: February 07, 2019, 21:06:19 pm »

Fan-owned Newport County through to FA Cup Round 5 at home to Man City. Team features ex-Cobbler Regan Poole.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-47143918

Interesting twist on the sustainability of fan owned Newport County,  the harsh reality of fan owned life ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44255428
Report Spam   Logged
Melbourne Cobbler
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1088


View Profile
« Reply #132 on: February 07, 2019, 21:09:29 pm »

I understood 'decision making process' to mean the running of the club itself, as you mentioned the boardroom. Hence my response.
No Fez, the decision making process is making all and any decisions regarding the formation, structure and running of the new club including recruitment. Joking aside my point is that someone is going to make or guide decisions surrounding these issues and I have no idea as to the caliber or quality of those individuals (although I have formed an opinion about some). Thatís fine until the opportunity to put in a few grand becomes a possibility, it adds a certain hesitation for me. I take your point in the context you make it though.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 06:20:40 am by Melbourne Cobbler » Report Spam   Logged

Chairman, Paul Stratford Fanclub & proud member of the Steve Massey Appreciation Society (Though refuse to be in his fan club on account of his crap goal celebration in front of the Hotel End when playing for Wrexham)
tcobb
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 2370


View Profile
« Reply #133 on: February 07, 2019, 21:26:42 pm »

So even with their FA Cup success of this and last season, Newport are looking at having a minority fan ownership. Because of the losses they would have suffered and will need external investment.
Report Spam   Logged

This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England.
Melbourne Cobbler
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1088


View Profile
« Reply #134 on: February 07, 2019, 21:35:22 pm »

So even with their FA Cup success of this and last season, Newport are looking at having a minority fan ownership. Because of the losses they would have suffered and will need external investment.
Oh dear, now youíve done it. Stand by for references to catchment area, fans / local businesses in blissful partnership for the greater good and finances raised solely from food and beverage sales from the Mad Hatter himself? In an ironic twist of fate can I just add that Luton happens to be the home of The Hatters.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 21:38:24 pm by Melbourne Cobbler » Report Spam   Logged

Chairman, Paul Stratford Fanclub & proud member of the Steve Massey Appreciation Society (Though refuse to be in his fan club on account of his crap goal celebration in front of the Hotel End when playing for Wrexham)
Melbourne Cobbler
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1088


View Profile
« Reply #135 on: February 07, 2019, 21:56:40 pm »

Interesting twist on the sustainability of fan owned Newport County,  the harsh reality of fan owned life ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44255428
My take on this is that it is imperative that you raise enough finance to support the club in the medium term including a contingency for the unforeseen. As previously stated my blind opinion is 7 to 8 million from the fan base with 49% of the total value from corporate bodies in addition. It is difficult to convey the scale of achievement it would be to succeed with that proposal. Even then be under no illusion that there would still be significant risk attached. As I said, pure guesswork on my part, but if there isnít the appetite for a proposal along these lines then we are wasting our time. However, it is possible and the end result could be the answer to everything.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 00:34:35 am by Melbourne Cobbler » Report Spam   Logged

Chairman, Paul Stratford Fanclub & proud member of the Steve Massey Appreciation Society (Though refuse to be in his fan club on account of his crap goal celebration in front of the Hotel End when playing for Wrexham)
meccanostand
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1052


View Profile
« Reply #136 on: February 08, 2019, 09:29:38 am »

Interesting twist on the sustainability of fan owned Newport County,  the harsh reality of fan owned life ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44255428

That's an old story. They have made adjustments to put them on a more secure financial footing since then.

They also have rent issues that we don't have to deal with. the current board have put us on a good footing to explore community ownership. What's more we are in a position to cherry pick the best from the private and community owned models.
Report Spam   Logged
meccanostand
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1052


View Profile
« Reply #137 on: February 08, 2019, 09:33:27 am »

I don't know. We don't know what the model is yet or whether it would get to that stage.

It if was majority fan owned I assume the Trust board would bring someone in, most likely with the aid of Supporters Direct who would have plenty of contacts within that field.

If there's a hybrid model of fan ownership and a private individual or consortium, those individuals or groups would probably want some say on who runs the show.

Not much point discussing this yet as it's just abstract discussion without the models being presented.

Elections to the board would make the idea that cranks would get roles laughable. There are far more meritocratic systems available than the one that delivered Michael McRitchie Anthony and David Cardoza to positions of destructive and supreme influence.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 09:52:11 am by meccanostand » Report Spam   Logged
Melbourne Cobbler
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1088


View Profile
« Reply #138 on: February 08, 2019, 10:13:00 am »

Not much point discussing this yet as it's just abstract discussion without the models being presented.

Elections to the board would make the idea that cranks would get roles laughable. There are far more meritocratic systems available than the one that delivered Michael McRitchie Anthony and David Cardoza to positions of destructive and supreme influence.
Donít you believe it, people said that about Donald Trump. Iíve personally met people that sit on boards who shouldnít be trusted with a box of matches.
Report Spam   Logged

Chairman, Paul Stratford Fanclub & proud member of the Steve Massey Appreciation Society (Though refuse to be in his fan club on account of his crap goal celebration in front of the Hotel End when playing for Wrexham)
Alfred
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1458


View Profile
« Reply #139 on: February 08, 2019, 11:09:09 am »

That's an old story. They have made adjustments to put them on a more secure financial footing since then.

But still relevant to the overall picture,  or are we not allowed a balance view.  The fact remains at that point in time fan ownership wasnt deemed sustainable,  sorry if this dosnt fit your agenda.
Report Spam   Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 11 12   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal
Parental guidance is urged as this messageboard may not be suitable for all persons especially those under the age of 16 as the forums may contain words, phrases and expressions not considered appropriate for a younger audience so please express caution. If any posts in the forums offend you, please let us know and we will look at them and if we agree with your complaint, we will remove them. You are personally responsible and potentially liable for the contents of your posting and may be sued should your posting contain content of a defamatory or other illegal nature. Every message posted leaves a traceable IP number. We check the forums at various times of the day and remove offending posts. Other supporters are welcome but abusive or silly posts will be removed and the offenders potentially barred from future access to the site. We advise that you never reveal any personal information about yourself or anyone else (for example: telephone number, home address or email address), and please do not include postal addresses of any kind. This messageboard is not endorsed or in any way affiliated with Northampton Town FC. All postings on this board become copyright of The Hotel End & may not be reproduced without the permission of the board administrator. By signing up to this message board you agree to this. The Hotel End cannot be held liable for the actions or postings of its members. The Hotel End reserve the right to edit, delete, move or close any thread for any reason. The Hotel End may disclose user information to government authorities at their discretion or when required by law. The Hotel End may also disclose user information when The Hotel End has reason to believe that someone is causing injury to or interference with its rights or property, other The Hotel End users, or anyone else that could be harmed by such activities. By registering for The Hotel End, you agree to indemnify The Hotel End its representatives, and agents, and hold them harmless from any and all claims (including claims for legal fees) which may arise from your participation on the The Hotel End. You also agree that The Hotel End is not responsible for the materials posted by users of The Hotel End. In addition, you grant The Hotel End and its affiliates, worldwide, royalty-free perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display any message or content posted on The Hotel End and/or e-mail sent by you to The Hotel End (in whole or in part). The Hotel End reserves the right to make the rules up as it goes along. Thank you - The Hotel End I love Quidco
Bookmark this site! | Upgrade This Forum
SMFServer.com - Create your own Forum

Powered by SMF | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy