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Fan Ownership

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Author Topic: Fan Ownership  (Read 15615 times)
Boring Bar Steward
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« Reply #360 on: March 11, 2019, 14:53:46 pm »

For those slagging off KT and DB,
for those slagging off the Trust for their initiative,

What do you propose to improve the current situation?

What are you going to do to improve the current situation?
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« Reply #361 on: March 11, 2019, 15:00:09 pm »

Where is the other one?

Already merged... Wink
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« Reply #362 on: March 11, 2019, 15:17:09 pm »

For those slagging off KT and DB,
for those slagging off the Trust for their initiative,

What do you propose to improve the current situation?

What are you going to do to improve the current situation?

I am not slagging off either the current owners or the Trust. (Statement)
What am I going to do or propose? 
Nothing, until someone demonstrates a fail-safe funding plan (a bit more detail than the 'YES' response yesterday), in addition to a reliable, viable and credible management plan that encourages my support for any change. 
Personally, I am in not in a position to provide either funds or time to assist therefore I'll just keep turning up and supporting the team, whoever the owner(s) are.
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« Reply #363 on: March 11, 2019, 16:01:41 pm »

The way I look at all of this is that it has come about due to the lack of perceived work that's been done to complete the East Stand. While I am just as annoyed and frustrated by this lack of activity as the next person, I am yet to find an answer as to how this can be completed any sooner. As far as I know, the Council and the Club are in positive talks to get the stand finished and the Trust believe that they could get these talks completed quicker. I don't know how they believe they could do this because the only answer I have seen given to this question is that they would have a better relationship with the Council than the Club currently do. For me, that isn't an answer because it gives no details as to how they would have a better relationship and it also doesn't provide any answers on what the relationship with the Club and Council is currently.
My other issue is with the funding side of things. To simply say "yes" to the question of whether the Trust have funds to run the club isn't any better than KT saying "talks are ongoing" about the East Stand works. The Trust said yesterday that the club and Trust were too far apart when it came to the valuation of the club. To me, this means the Trust don't have enough funding at this moment in time to buy into the Club as they can't afford to meet KT and DB's valuation.

What I would like to see is the Trust build a better, more positive relationship with the Club. Help to initiate some of the community things they want to see happen. By doing that they will help to improve the club. From what I have heard, it seems that the Trust are too busy being negative about the football club to actually do anything positive.

I keep hearing the phrase "we see ourselves as critical friends of the club". Well right now, I doubt 'friends' is what either side think their in regards to their relationship status.
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« Reply #364 on: March 11, 2019, 16:39:56 pm »

OK here's a question for everyone, what value would you put on NTFC if you were looking to buy it ?. We are talking about the football club not the land around Sixfields, I'll list the assets of NTFC ………..I'm struggling to think of ANY assets, don't own a half finished stadium, a few youth players that could be worth a few quid a few years down the line, but we'll probably release them anyhow and ………..that's about it. So it's a loss making business ,with no assets, so it shouldn't be difficult to meet the asking price, if the asking price is sensible.


PS. to use a very well used phrase at NTFC, the Trust cannot reveal their backers due to commercial sensitivity  Wink
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« Reply #365 on: March 11, 2019, 16:55:43 pm »

The Trust said yesterday that the club and Trust were too far apart when it came to the valuation of the club. To me, this means the Trust don't have enough funding at this moment in time to buy into the Club as they can't afford to meet KT and DB's valuation.

It means that the Trust don't agree with KT and DB's valuation. You only ever pay for anything if you value it as worth the offered price.
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« Reply #366 on: March 11, 2019, 17:00:08 pm »

OK here's a question for everyone, what value would you put on NTFC if you were looking to buy it ?. We are talking about the football club not the land around Sixfields, I'll list the assets of NTFC ………..I'm struggling to think of ANY assets, don't own a half finished stadium, a few youth players that could be worth a few quid a few years down the line, but we'll probably release them anyhow and ………..that's about it. So it's a loss making business ,with no assets, so it shouldn't be difficult to meet the asking price, if the asking price is sensible.


PS. to use a very well used phrase at NTFC, the Trust cannot reveal their backers due to commercial sensitivity  Wink

Generally agree with this. Turnbull and Pierre might be worth decent sums.
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« Reply #367 on: March 11, 2019, 17:16:00 pm »

It means that the Trust don't agree with KT and DB's valuation. You only ever pay for anything if you value it as worth the offered price.

Then they don't have the funds to buy it. KT and DB do not have to sell. KT has stated himself that he will only sell to someone he believes has the best interests of the club at heart. I'm not saying the Trust don't, as as supporters first, they obviously do. That doesn't mean they have to sell for less than they see it as being worth though.

At the end of the day, if the Trust and the football club aren't able to negotiate a price that works for both parties, the sale won't happen. That goes for any other interested party also.
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« Reply #368 on: March 11, 2019, 17:21:15 pm »

OK here's a question for everyone, what value would you put on NTFC if you were looking to buy it ?. We are talking about the football club not the land around Sixfields, I'll list the assets of NTFC ………..I'm struggling to think of ANY assets, don't own a half finished stadium, a few youth players that could be worth a few quid a few years down the line, but we'll probably release them anyhow and ………..that's about it. So it's a loss making business ,with no assets, so it shouldn't be difficult to meet the asking price, if the asking price is sensible.


Again, this is symptomatic of the naivety of a lot of the Trust comments. OK, OK, let's just pretend that Thomas and Bower DIDN'T rescue the club because they thought they could turn a profit from developing the associated land, how much do you think he'll sell us the club for on its own?

The reality is, it will be vastly more difficult, perhaps even impossible, for KT and co to develop the surrounding land without also being stakeholders in the town as the owners of our football club. So I'd say the value KT & DB should be expected to sell the club for is equivalent to the profit they think they could make on developing the surrounding land. No more, no less.
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« Reply #369 on: March 11, 2019, 17:22:54 pm »

Generally agree with this. Turnbull and Pierre might be worth decent sums.
They might be worth decent sums BUT the monthly losses, we are currently running at, will eat that up VERY quickly!!!

I'll start a guessing game;

NTFC is worth £1 million MAXIMUM.

next?
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« Reply #370 on: March 11, 2019, 17:26:24 pm »

OK here's a question for everyone, what value would you put on NTFC if you were looking to buy it ?. We are talking about the football club not the land around Sixfields, I'll list the assets of NTFC ………..I'm struggling to think of ANY assets, don't own a half finished stadium, a few youth players that could be worth a few quid a few years down the line, but we'll probably release them anyhow and ………..that's about it. So it's a loss making business ,with no assets, so it shouldn't be difficult to meet the asking price, if the asking price is sensible.


PS. to use a very well used phrase at NTFC, the Trust cannot reveal their backers due to commercial sensitivity  Wink

You are correct re the assets and I believe that you should get the club for say£1.BUT  you would have to assume all liability for current debts and unless you can match the current level of security offered you would almost certainly required to clear this down immediately. In addition the current shareholders will almost certainly be owed significant inter company loans. I am sure they will require these clearing on the sale of the football club or be secured by very significant PERSONAL guarantees.  

The last estimate was that these exceeded £2m.  

Your point re the commercial sensitivity of the trusts backers may well be correct but I will assure you that discussions and sensitive details would not be revealed until their credibility can be established. Any seller of a business would require full details and proof of available funds. meeting the sales price and all football club debts  before the sales memorandum was issued.
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« Reply #371 on: March 11, 2019, 17:26:53 pm »

After seeing the document on here, after thinking it was a spoof at first too, the club will always be worth more if the Trust don't get their hands on it. I'm afraid I will no longer give any more money to them.
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« Reply #372 on: March 11, 2019, 17:28:33 pm »

Already merged... Wink

I guess that explains why i couldn't find it. Grin
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« Reply #373 on: March 11, 2019, 17:33:52 pm »

OK here's a question for everyone, what value would you put on NTFC if you were looking to buy it ?. We are talking about the football club not the land around Sixfields, I'll list the assets of NTFC ………..I'm struggling to think of ANY assets, don't own a half finished stadium, a few youth players that could be worth a few quid a few years down the line, but we'll probably release them anyhow and ………..that's about it. So it's a loss making business ,with no assets, so it shouldn't be difficult to meet the asking price, if the asking price is sensible.


PS. to use a very well used phrase at NTFC, the Trust cannot reveal their backers due to commercial sensitivity  Wink

Didn't KT pay Cardoza a token £1 to complete the deal, after NBC agreed to scrub the £10 million debt on proviso KT's group finished the East Stand? So, about £1 then, right? Plus any outstanding loans/debts that need covering.
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« Reply #374 on: March 11, 2019, 17:40:03 pm »

Then they don't have the funds to buy it. KT and DB do not have to sell. KT has stated himself that he will only sell to someone he believes has the best interests of the club at heart. I'm not saying the Trust don't, as as supporters first, they obviously do. That doesn't mean they have to sell for less than they see it as being worth though.

At the end of the day, if the Trust and the football club aren't able to negotiate a price that works for both parties, the sale won't happen. That goes for any other interested party also.
To be honest Charles, I have enough money in my pocket to buy NTFC at the true value of what it's worth. KT has said that NTFC losses money but DB keeps funding it, why? There must be an end game, or is it that DB loves us so much that, I think, he's been to 2 home matches since he's been the owner ?
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« Reply #375 on: March 11, 2019, 17:43:54 pm »

Didn't KT pay Cardoza a token £1 to complete the deal, after NBC agreed to scrub the £10 million debt on proviso KT's group finished the East Stand? So, about £1 then, right? Plus any outstanding loans/debts that need covering.

It's the cost of those debts that I imagine are too high for the Trust.
I imagine KT/DB will want back all the money they have spent on keeping the club in business. Don't forget that when they took over, the club owed HMRC and staff wages for a considerable amount of time. No doubt there were other debtors too. This was no fault of KT/DB remember.
So let's just say that that comes to £3M. With no assets, as Barton rightly points out (we don't own the stadium, a training ground etc), why would anyone buy the football club?
Oh, the potential of the land that the club sits on and has control of a lease over. KT/DB are in control of both of those leases. They want the land that is next to the ground to generate funds for the football club (as well as for themselves I expect), so I guess they would want a buyer to pay for that lease too.
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« Reply #376 on: March 11, 2019, 18:08:37 pm »

It's the cost of those debts that I imagine are too high for the Trust.
I imagine KT/DB will want back all the money they have spent on keeping the club in business. Don't forget that when they took over, the club owed HMRC and staff wages for a considerable amount of time. No doubt there were other debtors too. This was no fault of KT/DB remember.
So let's just say that that comes to £3M. With no assets, as Barton rightly points out (we don't own the stadium, a training ground etc), why would anyone buy the football club?
Oh, the potential of the land that the club sits on and has control of a lease over. KT/DB are in control of both of those leases. They want the land that is next to the ground to generate funds for the football club (as well as for themselves I expect), so I guess they would want a buyer to pay for that lease too.

Life doesn't work like that. If you choose to throw money at a failing business, then you have no guarantee of recovering your losses. The land behind the East was originally in the stadium footprint, so i don't see how KT could consider recovering that land as 'adding value to NTFC'. At the end of the day, they bought the club for a song - but the sale was completed with all sides agreeing certain stipulations. KT should already be quids in as he holds the CDNL leases. Putting any debts/loans aside, the club is worth no more than a scratch.
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« Reply #377 on: March 11, 2019, 18:14:01 pm »

As the owner of the business, which is no longer failing, KT can ask for whatever he wants. Whilst he has said he is looking for investment and therefore to sell the club, that doesn't mean he has to do it for a price he doesn't see as being fair. KT holds all the cards. Regardless of whether the Trust or any other interested party believes KT's valuation is too high, they either meet it or don't buy the club.
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« Reply #378 on: March 11, 2019, 18:17:06 pm »

Exactly right. If you want the club you have to meet the asking price. He does not need to sell.
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« Reply #379 on: March 11, 2019, 18:29:58 pm »

Barton, if the Club is for sale including the land, then that's the price that will have to be paid. Are the Trust looking to buy the club without the land ?
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