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Risdene
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« Reply #340 on: September 23, 2022, 06:33:59 am »

Not one person from the Trust board attended!

A detailed overview from KT included a hope that the Judicial Review could declare in about 6 weeks. Also the training ground has expanded to 4 club pitches and a lease on a multi use building for the exclusive use of players and staff at Moulton.
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« Reply #341 on: September 23, 2022, 06:52:10 am »



A detailed overview from KT included a hope that the Judicial Review could declare in about 6 weeks.

Wow, if he's right that is good news, I'd assumed it would drag on for months longer.
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« Reply #342 on: September 23, 2022, 07:00:30 am »

This forum was doomed for me and the reorganised one was almost the mirror image of the cancelled one - I wasn't going to be able to go to that because my wife had a prior engagement but she rang me to say it was cancelled at the last minute so could have gone. I got in my car and was about to back off the drive when I thought I should probably just check it was still on because of the Queen dying and lo and behold it had been cancelled.

Last night I had been planning to go when my wife rang me about an hour before I was due to leave saying she had a job application she urgently needed to do last night. It would have been pretty unfair to leave her alone in the house with a little one while she was doing that so I had to cancel.

Oh well, there's always the podcast....
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« Reply #343 on: September 23, 2022, 08:14:41 am »

Not one person from the Trust board attended!

A detailed overview from KT included a hope that the Judicial Review could declare in about 6 weeks. Also the training ground has expanded to 4 club pitches and a lease on a multi use building for the exclusive use of players and staff at Moulton.
I'm guessing the most vocal KT objectors were also not in attendance?
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« Reply #344 on: September 23, 2022, 08:16:02 am »

Not one person from the Trust board attended!

A detailed overview from KT included a hope that the Judicial Review could declare in about 6 weeks. Also the training ground has expanded to 4 club pitches and a lease on a multi use building for the exclusive use of players and staff at Moulton.

Obviously it has to move from talking to happening but news on training facilities is very significant and if people can depart from the single agenda item of the stadium they would understand the importance of this - our training facilities over the years have been terrible using Abington Park, ON's ground and Stowe School to name a few all of which did the playing side no favours. It also represents a sustainable investment for the future.  
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« Reply #345 on: September 23, 2022, 08:33:51 am »

The "acceptable level" will be difficult to pin down, I was not impressed with the plans that don't show any large bars or function rooms but, to be honest, I'm not expecting anything different and have come to the conclusion that that would be better than nothing, It would be, in my opinion, a really big waisted chance for NTFC to move forward but that is from someone who is hoping to be around for a few years, not get out as quickly as possible.
 It has to be in writing, remember the "£4M Ringfenced" wasn't in writing and we've all seen what happened to that. Sad
The Chairman also confirmed, once again, that the club will complete the East Stand to a good standard as part of the development and there will be protections in the final contract with West Northamptonshire Council to that that effect.

Does this satisfy your requirements? Agree "acceptable level" is very ambiguous but also confirmed there will be protections in the contract?
If not, I'm curious to know what would be needed.
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« Reply #346 on: September 23, 2022, 09:41:14 am »

The Chairman also confirmed, once again, that the club will complete the East Stand to a good standard as part of the development and there will be protections in the final contract with West Northamptonshire Council to that that effect.

Does this satisfy your requirements? Agree "acceptable level" is very ambiguous but also confirmed there will be protections in the contract?
If not, I'm curious to know what would be needed.

Unfortunately I think views have become so entrenched the scenario for some will simply shift from suggestions of KT/DB running off with all the money and not completing the stand to, well they have completed it but not to the standard we deserve/wanted - seemingly forgetting that the inadequacies of the East Stand are a Cardoza legacy and not of the current owner's creation.

Personally for me, if it happens completion of the stand as per the old plans and a much improved training facility is the most progress we have made in decades and I would view it as glass half full but I'm sure others will disagree.

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« Reply #347 on: September 23, 2022, 10:11:34 am »

Unfortunately I think views have become so entrenched the scenario for some will simply shift from suggestions of KT/DB running off with all the money and not completing the stand to, well they have completed it but not to the standard we deserve/wanted - seemingly forgetting that the inadequacies of the East Stand are a Cardoza legacy and not of the current owner's creation.

Personally for me, if it happens completion of the stand as per the old plans and a much improved training facility is the most progress we have made in decades and I would view it as glass half full but I'm sure others will disagree.



Agree. I think the current plans look quite smart and provide the hospitality boxes that we currently lack. If it's completed as shown in the CGIs I'll be very happy, and the additional training facilities are an added bonus that show a commitment to the footballing side of things, although I presume we're only renting them from Moulton College, aren't we?
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« Reply #348 on: September 23, 2022, 10:25:53 am »

Unfortunately I think views have become so entrenched the scenario for some will simply shift from suggestions of KT/DB running off with all the money and not completing the stand to, well they have completed it but not to the standard we deserve/wanted - seemingly forgetting that the inadequacies of the East Stand are a Cardoza legacy and not of the current owner's creation.

Personally for me, if it happens completion of the stand as per the old plans and a much improved training facility is the most progress we have made in decades and I would view it as glass half full but I'm sure others will disagree.


As I've stated in the past, if we complete the stand as it is, I think it would be a big, missed opportunity to build on the back, the full length of the stand, so we have some function rooms of our own. But even if we just complete it, as it is, it doesn't explain why the "No stand, no land" clause was removed from the deal at the instance of NTFC?
   Why go to the trouble of removing that clause if you are, 100%, going to complete the stand? There is no logic in that whatsoever, is there?  It was nothing to do with "like for like" with the Cilldara bid, as their bid never included the running track, CDNL's did. Maybe someone on here can come up with an explanation, have I missed something?
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« Reply #349 on: September 23, 2022, 10:30:38 am »

Did you go and ask these questions last night ?
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« Reply #350 on: September 23, 2022, 10:38:26 am »

As I've stated in the past, if we complete the stand as it is, I think it would be a big, missed opportunity to build on the back, the full length of the stand, so we have some function rooms of our own. But even if we just complete it, as it is, it doesn't explain why the "No stand, no land" clause was removed from the deal at the instance of NTFC?
   Why go to the trouble of removing that clause if you are, 100%, going to complete the stand? There is no logic in that whatsoever, is there?  It was nothing to do with "like for like" with the Cilldara bid, as their bid never included the running track, CDNL's did. Maybe someone on here can come up with an explanation, have I missed something?
Why wouldn't they want the contract and everything else in their favour / under their control? There would always be the risk that someone at the council, or another institution, who held a personal grudge could kick up a storm that the finished stand isn't satisfactory and therefore delay the development of the land.

Now I know its high unlikely any institution or group of people would publicly critisise the actions of the owners but there is always that risk. It is 100% the right thing for the owners to do. I do understand your position but thats a question for the council, not the owners IMO
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« Reply #351 on: September 23, 2022, 10:52:20 am »



 It is 100% the right thing for the owners to do. I do understand your position but thats a question for the council, not the owners IMO
The Trust did ask WNC this question and this is a quote from the reply

"On the ‘no stand, no land’ point, it is correct, and was noted at the meeting, that the Council has moved on this point as the process of negotiation and offers developed.
It was not a change that the council sought, but was a change in the terms of the higher CDNL offer"

     
 
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« Reply #352 on: September 23, 2022, 10:57:07 am »

The Trust did ask WNC this question and this is a quote from the reply

"On the ‘no stand, no land’ point, it is correct, and was noted at the meeting, that the Council has moved on this point as the process of negotiation and offers developed.
It was not a change that the council sought, but was a change in the terms of the higher CDNL offer"

     
Sorry poor use of language on my part. I was aware of the above but thank you for re-sharing. I guess I should have worded it that any frustration should be with the council.
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« Reply #353 on: September 23, 2022, 11:10:52 am »

The Trust did ask WNC this question and this is a quote from the reply

"On the ‘no stand, no land’ point, it is correct, and was noted at the meeting, that the Council has moved on this point as the process of negotiation and offers developed.
It was not a change that the council sought, but was a change in the terms of the higher CDNL offer"

     
 


The thing is, when it comes to the detailed negotiations of the contract (I.e. beyond the HoT stage) you have to have a bit of give and take. I used to work with a lady who was a master negotiator. The first time I reviewed a contract with her I was amazed. She altered just about every term in our favour and then sent an amended copy back to them. It was a huge international IT company we were dealing with and I commented that they would never agree to 90% of what we were asking for. No, she said, I know.

When we reviewed  the contract with them, sure enough, one by one they refused to change most of the points and we relented. Then we got to the bit we really wanted changed. No, they said, can't do it.

"Oh come on, you need to give some ground on some of our points, my friend replied "we've backed down on all these other points..."

And do you know what? They did. She got exactly what she wanted from the deal by requesting and then backing down on all these things she didn't really care about just so she could win the one point she really did care about. They even managed to sound magnanimous about acquiescing to her on it!

My point is, it doesn't help in negotiations to have all your cards on the table from the off. That way you have something to give in return for all the other stuff you want changing. Maybe that's why they wanted the guarantee about the ground removed from the HoT documents, because as bargaining chips go, that's a whopper!!
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« Reply #354 on: September 23, 2022, 11:15:56 am »

As I've stated in the past, if we complete the stand as it is, I think it would be a big, missed opportunity to build on the back, the full length of the stand, so we have some function rooms of our own. But even if we just complete it, as it is, it doesn't explain why the "No stand, no land" clause was removed from the deal at the instance of NTFC?
   Why go to the trouble of removing that clause if you are, 100%, going to complete the stand? There is no logic in that whatsoever, is there?  It was nothing to do with "like for like" with the Cilldara bid, as their bid never included the running track, CDNL's did. Maybe someone on here can come up with an explanation, have I missed something?

I've explained this several times already.  I mean how can "No stand, No Land" exist when it stopped being a 5 year option to buy the dev land, after an acceptable completion of the East Stand, to an upfront purchase.  That became a neccesity the moment Cilldara came on the scene and the club had to compete with their offer.  It also completely overlooks the fact that if Cilldara had not bid the club and the council were happy to agree a deal that would have done exactly what you are asking!

Why don't you explain to us all how you would insert a "No Stand, No Land" clause into the clubs improved £2m offer?  

P.S. The really good news is that when the Trust finally announce details of their £3m bid they can put that very clause in any deal they submit.  I'm sure it's something they will insist on to ensure no developer gets their hands on the land until the guarantee to complete the East Stand is fulfilled.
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« Reply #355 on: September 23, 2022, 11:18:28 am »

Fantastic news about the training facilities, our training facilities have been pretty poor over the years so improvements there are really really significant.

"The Chairman also confirmed, once again, that the club will complete the East Stand to a good standard as part of the development and there will be protections in the final contract with West Northamptonshire Council to that that effect."

This comment is interesting. I find it very concerning that the Trust has been consistently talking about the club removing clauses (and talking about this as fact) from contracts to try and create a negative perception when in reality it was a simple heads of agreement and the contract was always going include assurances.

Anyone who has ever done any kind of deal would know that a heads of agreement isn't a final contract, the trust have behaved as though it was. This says a lot about their understanding of the situation, or worse - their deliberate intention to mislead fans into siding with them or getting angry about things they shouldn't. They should have waited for the final contract before attacking the club/owners.

Personal opinions on the various issues talked about aside, The trust not attending unjustifiable for an entity that is supposed to "represent the fans" - shame on them.



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« Reply #356 on: September 23, 2022, 11:49:43 am »

Fantastic news about the training facilities, our training facilities have been pretty poor over the years so improvements there are really really significant.

"The Chairman also confirmed, once again, that the club will complete the East Stand to a good standard as part of the development and there will be protections in the final contract with West Northamptonshire Council to that that effect."

This comment is interesting. I find it very concerning that the Trust has been consistently talking about the club removing clauses (and talking about this as fact) from contracts to try and create a negative perception when in reality it was a simple heads of agreement and the contract was always going include assurances.

Anyone who has ever done any kind of deal would know that a heads of agreement isn't a final contract, the trust have behaved as though it was. This says a lot about their understanding of the situation, or worse - their deliberate intention to mislead fans into siding with them or getting angry about things they shouldn't. They should have waited for the final contract before attacking the club/owners.

Personal opinions on the various issues talked about aside, The trust not attending unjustifiable for an entity that is supposed to "represent the fans" - shame on them.

I agree with some of what you say Tom but I think you are being a tad harsh on the Trust Board.  Do we know for a fact none of the Trust Board or co-opts were there?  I'd be stunned if that was even true.  a. you surely would want to hear what's said straight from the horses mouth and b. the Trust Board is in possession of far more detail regarding this whole saga so may be better placed to challenge than an ordinary fan would.

Where I mostly think you are unfair is that the Trust absolutely should be challenging the Council and the club to ensure relevant, enforceable clauses are in place to deliver the East Stand completion as part of this deal.  That most definitely shouldn't be left until the contracts are drawn up when it may be too late. 
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« Reply #357 on: September 23, 2022, 11:57:43 am »

I agree with some of what you say Tom but I think you are being a tad harsh on the Trust Board.  Do we know for a fact none of the Trust Board or co-opts were there?  I'd be stunned if that was even true.  a. you surely would want to hear what's said straight from the horses mouth and b. the Trust Board is in possession of far more detail regarding this whole saga so may be better placed to challenge than an ordinary fan would.

Where I mostly think you are unfair is that the Trust absolutely should be challenging the Council and the club to ensure relevant, enforceable clauses are in place to deliver the East Stand completion as part of this deal.  That most definitely shouldn't be left until the contracts are drawn up when it may be too late. 

It's been said by a lot of different people that nobody from the trust was there - I don't think thats justifiable. I'll be very happy to be proven wrong, but it seems too many people saying that they didn't attend for that to be untrue.  [Edit after listening in full, Confirmed that the trust board did not attend]

I agree - they/we/everyone should challenge to ensure they are in, but when it's been said multiple times by multiple parties that it'll be in the final contract - do you think it's acceptable to then make statements saying the opposite? The trust has treated the heads of agreement like it's the final contract - that seems misleading in my opinion. It's clear from that statement alone that the club feels they have made it clear? 
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« Reply #358 on: September 23, 2022, 12:38:50 pm »

ue.

I agree - they/we/everyone should challenge to ensure they are in, but when it's been said multiple times by multiple parties that it'll be in the final contract - do you think it's acceptable to then make statements saying the opposite? The trust has treated the heads of agreement like it's the final contract - that seems misleading in my opinion. It's clear from that statement alone that the club feels they have made it clear? 
One of the reasons the Trust are questioning this is that the "£4M ringfenced" money to complete the East was in the heads of agreement when CDNL bought the club but NOT in the final contract, according to an officer of NBC at the time, so it's a case of once bitten twice shy.
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« Reply #359 on: September 23, 2022, 12:40:44 pm »

Fantastic news about the training facilities, our training facilities have been pretty poor over the years so improvements there are really really significant.

"The Chairman also confirmed, once again, that the club will complete the East Stand to a good standard as part of the development and there will be protections in the final contract with West Northamptonshire Council to that that effect."

This comment is interesting. I find it very concerning that the Trust has been consistently talking about the club removing clauses (and talking about this as fact) from contracts to try and create a negative perception when in reality it was a simple heads of agreement and the contract was always going include assurances.

Anyone who has ever done any kind of deal would know that a heads of agreement isn't a final contract, the trust have behaved as though it was. This says a lot about their understanding of the situation, or worse - their deliberate intention to mislead fans into siding with them or getting angry about things they shouldn't. They should have waited for the final contract before attacking the club/owners.

Personal opinions on the various issues talked about aside, The trust not attending unjustifiable for an entity that is supposed to "represent the fans" - shame on them.


Some relevant points made in Toms post! The comment on heads of agreement isn't a final contract seems to suggest that some on the Trust may have inadvertently misled most on here. It would be helpful if a Trust person can clarify their position on the above 2nd sentence of my  post.

ps Understand Carton,  as I posted after your latest post! Not certain if the once bitten twice shy comment is relevant to a HoA or even a signed, agreed by all parties contract!
« Last Edit: September 23, 2022, 13:00:30 pm by everbrite » Report Spam   Logged

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