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Listen to the It's All Cobblers To Me podcast

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« Reply #380 on: September 23, 2022, 17:47:44 pm »

Probably a good time to break my silence!!

Firstly, the presentation as laid out by the club for supporters to see last night and now in writing does not make great reading and certainly shows or at least attempts to show the Trust board, certain board members in particular, in a very bad light.

What I would say is that as posted above, this is one side of the story, and for me a lot of it has no context added and can be read in a number of ways. I was not involved in 2018 so I can't go back that far and relate to any of this with any certainty. I am still somewhat surprised that the club have felt they needed to go to this level to basically rubbish the Trust. It shows how far downhill relationships have got.

I might expect the Trust to come back with their own "mudslinging stories", and believe me there are a few of those too!!

For everyones information though I now announce that I resigned from the Trust Board on 30th August. There were a number of reasons for this, pressure of my work, family related issues, but also I found myself to not agree with some of the Trusts methods and the direction of travel on certain issues. That's all i'm going to say on the matter!

I'm not the first to resign from the Trust board and I won't be the last! I just want to get back to posting normally on here without having to face questions about this that and the other!!

I have tried to remain a "moderate" throughout the whole process and have hopefully stayed away from personal attacks on anyone, and I think by and large people have done the same with me. I'm not confrontational on here, have tried to remain calm and measured but even that was becoming difficult in the end!!

I have been active on here for many years, did a lot of digging into the Cardoza plans and subsequent unravelling of them. My actions in the past few weeks do not mean suddenly that i'm "pro-owners"...I still think there is a lot of talk and in my opinion have seen very little action in the past seven years. So my feelings towards certain aspects have not changed. I will still comment and criticise as I see fit, and also give praise where praise is due.

I hope you will understand the reasons for my silence in the past few weeks, and as I say i'm not going to go into any more detail about anything on that matter.

I still want what I truly believe that we all want, that is the best for our football club, but I will do that as a regular supporter now, not as a Trust Board member.

UTC..... GPC..... Simon



This is very sad news.
Youíve never been offensive, always calm and factual.
It further proves in my opinion that if good people like you are resigning because of the direction of the Trust, that the direction, is flawed.
Enjoy being you again Simon.
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« Reply #381 on: September 23, 2022, 18:00:43 pm »

Probably a good time to break my silence!!

Firstly, the presentation as laid out by the club for supporters to see last night and now in writing does not make great reading and certainly shows or at least attempts to show the Trust board, certain board members in particular, in a very bad light.

What I would say is that as posted above, this is one side of the story, and for me a lot of it has no context added and can be read in a number of ways. I was not involved in 2018 so I can't go back that far and relate to any of this with any certainty. I am still somewhat surprised that the club have felt they needed to go to this level to basically rubbish the Trust. It shows how far downhill relationships have got.

I might expect the Trust to come back with their own "mudslinging stories", and believe me there are a few of those too!!

For everyones information though I now announce that I resigned from the Trust Board on 30th August. There were a number of reasons for this, pressure of my work, family related issues, but also I found myself to not agree with some of the Trusts methods and the direction of travel on certain issues. That's all i'm going to say on the matter!

I'm not the first to resign from the Trust board and I won't be the last! I just want to get back to posting normally on here without having to face questions about this that and the other!!

I have tried to remain a "moderate" throughout the whole process and have hopefully stayed away from personal attacks on anyone, and I think by and large people have done the same with me. I'm not confrontational on here, have tried to remain calm and measured but even that was becoming difficult in the end!!

I have been active on here for many years, did a lot of digging into the Cardoza plans and subsequent unravelling of them. My actions in the past few weeks do not mean suddenly that i'm "pro-owners"...I still think there is a lot of talk and in my opinion have seen very little action in the past seven years. So my feelings towards certain aspects have not changed. I will still comment and criticise as I see fit, and also give praise where praise is due.

I hope you will understand the reasons for my silence in the past few weeks, and as I say i'm not going to go into any more detail about anything on that matter.

I still want what I truly believe that we all want, that is the best for our football club, but I will do that as a regular supporter now, not as a Trust Board member.

UTC..... GPC..... Simon



Absolutely no gloating here Simon. Iíve been there myself, albeit under much less stressful circumstances.

Letís get back to you receiving just general abuse now 😀😛.
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« Reply #382 on: September 23, 2022, 18:24:13 pm »

Probably a good time to break my silence!!

Firstly, the presentation as laid out by the club for supporters to see last night and now in writing does not make great reading and certainly shows or at least attempts to show the Trust board, certain board members in particular, in a very bad light.

What I would say is that as posted above, this is one side of the story, and for me a lot of it has no context added and can be read in a number of ways. I was not involved in 2018 so I can't go back that far and relate to any of this with any certainty. I am still somewhat surprised that the club have felt they needed to go to this level to basically rubbish the Trust. It shows how far downhill relationships have got.

I might expect the Trust to come back with their own "mudslinging stories", and believe me there are a few of those too!!

For everyones information though I now announce that I resigned from the Trust Board on 30th August. There were a number of reasons for this, pressure of my work, family related issues, but also I found myself to not agree with some of the Trusts methods and the direction of travel on certain issues. That's all i'm going to say on the matter!

I'm not the first to resign from the Trust board and I won't be the last! I just want to get back to posting normally on here without having to face questions about this that and the other!!

I have tried to remain a "moderate" throughout the whole process and have hopefully stayed away from personal attacks on anyone, and I think by and large people have done the same with me. I'm not confrontational on here, have tried to remain calm and measured but even that was becoming difficult in the end!!

I have been active on here for many years, did a lot of digging into the Cardoza plans and subsequent unravelling of them. My actions in the past few weeks do not mean suddenly that i'm "pro-owners"...I still think there is a lot of talk and in my opinion have seen very little action in the past seven years. So my feelings towards certain aspects have not changed. I will still comment and criticise as I see fit, and also give praise where praise is due.

I hope you will understand the reasons for my silence in the past few weeks, and as I say i'm not going to go into any more detail about anything on that matter.

I still want what I truly believe that we all want, that is the best for our football club, but I will do that as a regular supporter now, not as a Trust Board member.

UTC..... GPC..... Simon


As echoed by others, a real loss to the Trust board. Thanks for your efforts GPC.
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« Reply #383 on: September 23, 2022, 18:57:20 pm »

So do I.
For starters there's 2 allegations from the club there of the Trust lying to the council.
I'm in no way legally qualified, nevertheless I struggle to see how those quotes can be viewed as lies.
They are beliefs expressed as such. It's for the council to interprete how they see fit, presumably after also taking council from others, the club included.
Personally I think it's quite sad that the club have felt the need to stoop to this level. They are clearly rattled by the Trust, which I find surprising. I assumed most fans are already on side with the club and I thought the club assumed that too.
All this diatribe does for me now is make me think its not so cut and dried and that the Trust may indeed have something valid to offer.

I kind of agree on the lying issue - they are either lying or misinformed but it's impossible to say which it is.

Having now listened to the podcast the frustration is apparent in Thomas's voice. I'm sure we've all sat here and read something someone else has posted that gets your goat and thought "I'm not going to bite,  I'm not going to bite" and then come back an hour later to take a great big wet bite, so we all know how difficult it is to bite your tongue.

Having been on the receiving end of abuse and accusations via social media, on here and in press releases for some time without reply I can get howThomas felt the need to comment about the relationship with the Trust. He was guaranteed to be asked about it so it's better to get on the front foot and have something prepared that is backed by black & white evidence rather than blurt something out that could make the situation worse.
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« Reply #384 on: September 23, 2022, 19:41:55 pm »

The Trust are to the club what Harry and Megan are to the royal family.
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« Reply #385 on: September 23, 2022, 20:04:27 pm »

Probably a good time to break my silence!!

Firstly, the presentation as laid out by the club for supporters to see last night and now in writing does not make great reading and certainly shows or at least attempts to show the Trust board, certain board members in particular, in a very bad light.

What I would say is that as posted above, this is one side of the story, and for me a lot of it has no context added and can be read in a number of ways. I was not involved in 2018 so I can't go back that far and relate to any of this with any certainty. I am still somewhat surprised that the club have felt they needed to go to this level to basically rubbish the Trust. It shows how far downhill relationships have got.

I might expect the Trust to come back with their own "mudslinging stories", and believe me there are a few of those too!!

For everyones information though I now announce that I resigned from the Trust Board on 30th August. There were a number of reasons for this, pressure of my work, family related issues, but also I found myself to not agree with some of the Trusts methods and the direction of travel on certain issues. That's all i'm going to say on the matter!

I'm not the first to resign from the Trust board and I won't be the last! I just want to get back to posting normally on here without having to face questions about this that and the other!!

I have tried to remain a "moderate" throughout the whole process and have hopefully stayed away from personal attacks on anyone, and I think by and large people have done the same with me. I'm not confrontational on here, have tried to remain calm and measured but even that was becoming difficult in the end!!

I have been active on here for many years, did a lot of digging into the Cardoza plans and subsequent unravelling of them. My actions in the past few weeks do not mean suddenly that i'm "pro-owners"...I still think there is a lot of talk and in my opinion have seen very little action in the past seven years. So my feelings towards certain aspects have not changed. I will still comment and criticise as I see fit, and also give praise where praise is due.

I hope you will understand the reasons for my silence in the past few weeks, and as I say i'm not going to go into any more detail about anything on that matter.

I still want what I truly believe that we all want, that is the best for our football club, but I will do that as a regular supporter now, not as a Trust Board member.

UTC..... GPC..... Simon



Fair play fella! Appreciate that you tried being the olive branch between the trust board & it's voiceless members/general supporters on here.

Your decision to resign from the trust board only amplifies the underlying issues within it.

At least you haven't got to shell out that 3 million quid now  Grin

Enjoy just being a supporter again!
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« Reply #386 on: September 23, 2022, 21:09:56 pm »

I kind of agree on the lying issue - they are either lying or misinformed but it's impossible to say which it is.

I'd say from the information we have to hand, it's relatively clear the trust lied at least to fans - not just misinformed, so not sure why we'd think otherwise about anything else such as the stuff said to the council.

28th Jul 2022
"given that the deal the owners have on the table with the council in no way guarantees the East Stand being completed, nor does it provide for any ongoing investment benefit for our football club.

"We question, as all supporters should, as to why  there is no longer any guarantee of the stand's completion in the plan of the club owners?"

Evidence in the presentation shows that both club and council by the time this statement was released had made it very clear that the contract would contain clauses to ensure the stand was finished, they knew that and still published a statement otherwise - that's lying.
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« Reply #387 on: September 23, 2022, 21:10:20 pm »

Speaking as a life member I have the upmost respect for you Simon, and always have. Personally I would like to see you involved in the Trust again in some capacity if thatís at all possible? Really looking forward to the prematch summaryís so hopefully youíll keep up with those mate.
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« Reply #388 on: September 23, 2022, 22:11:52 pm »

It was not about being "like for like" in terms of the exact land more "like for like" on the offer Cilldara made.

Easiest way to explain is to compare the offers:

CDNL first offer £790k was an OPTION TO BUY.  This bit is important because it was what enabled "No Stand No Land".  In simple terms CDNL finish the East Stand within 5 years and they then can execute an option to purchase the development land at the agreed price.  If they don't finish within five years the Council keep the development land.  Downside for the council they potentially don't get any money for 5 years if at all.  Upside massive incentive for CDNL to complete the stand as it unlocks the supposed riches of the development land.

Cilldara come in with various higher monetary bids and eventually also agree to indemnify the Council against legal costs to break the CDNL leases on the dev land.  Upside for the council much more money, all paid up front not an "Option To Buy" like above.  Downside it's reliant on Cilldara legally breaking the lease and the risk they might not be able to.

CDNL at this point could have stuck with the original offer.  The council were obligated to, legally, accept the offer that provided best consideration for the tax payer financially.  So which of those two should they accept?

CDNL clearly felt they were likely to lose the deal so therefore offered a deal more "like for like" in that it was a straight purchase of the dev land not an "Option To Buy" and matched Cilldara financially, at the time it was made.  Essentially CDNL said to the council we will make it easier for you.  Here's £2m up front as soon as we complete contracts no potential 5 year wait with a risk of non completion.  Upside council get way more money and much sooner than 5 years or never.  Downside control over the dev land is given up straight away on completion so you physically can't do "No stand, No Land" cause they already have the land.  

I've missed loads of other detail and I'm not trying to provide an exact timeline here, before anyone comments, I'm simply trying to demonstrate why the CDNL deal HAD to change their offer.  So next time someone says I still want "No Stand, No Land" I think it's perfectly fair to ask how they would achieve that given the reality of the circumstances.        

Thank you for the detailed explanation and maybe Iím being thick and whilst I see that in the newer proposal the land changes hands unequivocally and immediately without the 5 year risk but despite that clearly being a better offer for the council ( and why the judicial review almost certainly not find against WNC) I still donít see why a NSNL clause cannot be applied as a pre requirement on the sale.
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« Reply #389 on: September 23, 2022, 22:45:37 pm »

Thank you for the detailed explanation and maybe Iím being thick and whilst I see that in the newer proposal the land changes hands unequivocally and immediately without the 5 year risk but despite that clearly being a better offer for the council ( and why the judicial review almost certainly not find against WNC) I still donít see why a NSNL clause cannot be applied as a pre requirement on the sale.

Don't think you are being thick at all and it's actually nice to have a sensible conversation about this.

Explain to me how you would apply a NSNL clause to the current deal on the table.  Also I don't totally understand what you mean by pre requirement on the sale.
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« Reply #390 on: September 24, 2022, 00:31:14 am »

I'd say from the information we have to hand, it's relatively clear the trust lied at least to fans - not just misinformed, so not sure why we'd think otherwise about anything else such as the stuff said to the council.

28th Jul 2022
"given that the deal the owners have on the table with the council in no way guarantees the East Stand being completed, nor does it provide for any ongoing investment benefit for our football club.

"We question, as all supporters should, as to why  there is no longer any guarantee of the stand's completion in the plan of the club owners?"

Evidence in the presentation shows that both club and council by the time this statement was released had made it very clear that the contract would contain clauses to ensure the stand was finished, they knew that and still published a statement otherwise - that's lying.

Yeah,  sorry,  I meant more the parts KT called out as lies in the presentation around the owners being on their way out.

The later stuff that you flag does look more questionable.
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« Reply #391 on: September 24, 2022, 01:04:43 am »

Yeah,  sorry,  I meant more the parts KT called out as lies in the presentation around the owners being on their way out.

The later stuff that you flag does look more questionable.

Ah I see - that makes sense! I guess for me after all this stuff the trust has lost my benefit of doubt, so Iím going to assume that most of what was shown was done with a similar intent as the more obvious stuff when it comes to the not so trustworthy trust.
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« Reply #392 on: September 24, 2022, 08:48:48 am »

Ah I see - that makes sense! I guess for me after all this stuff the trust has lost my benefit of doubt, so Iím going to assume that most of what was shown was done with a similar intent as the more obvious stuff when it comes to the not so trustworthy trust.


No worries. Don't get me wrong, I've been done with the Trust's current board for a long while! In the interests of balance though I think KT might have gone slightly over the top in his presentation. The bits he specifically highlights as lies are ambiguous while, as you rightfully point out, there is plenty of evidence of mendacity elsewhere in the slides so why overstretch your reach?

I've long believed thereís an agenda there around the desire for fan ownership, something the Trust fervently deny to the point I've accepted I'm probably wrong about it. A good few of the slides back this up though (specifically the FOI correspondence between the Trust and the council) but then he's gone too far in including the "Fan Ownership" section on the Trust Website because this isn't really about seizing control of the club and more about looking at options (which I'd argue is legitimately within their remit).

I get why KT went to town and actually support him in doing so, but I do think in a couple of areas he's laboured the point and in doing so given the Trust some points to bat back, which will undermine the credibility of the many valid points he made!
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« Reply #393 on: September 24, 2022, 19:34:05 pm »

Don't think you are being thick at all and it's actually nice to have a sensible conversation about this.

Explain to me how you would apply a NSNL clause to the current deal on the table.  Also I don't totally understand what you mean by pre requirement on the sale.


Probably me going round in circles here so I wonít keep going back and forth -  but if the council accept the £2.05m * offer from CDNL - justified by cash up front and no breaking lease complications (Therefore preferable compared with the other offer on the table)  why canít they put a clause into the agreement - a simple condition of sale.

* Typo on amount corrected where I originally put £3 million
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« Reply #394 on: September 26, 2022, 12:40:03 pm »

No worries. Don't get me wrong, I've been done with the Trust's current board for a long while! In the interests of balance though I think KT might have gone slightly over the top in his presentation. The bits he specifically highlights as lies are ambiguous while, as you rightfully point out, there is plenty of evidence of mendacity elsewhere in the slides so why overstretch your reach?

I didn't get round to listening until yesterday but was a bit shocked by how combative the presentation was. Although the risks of trusts boards blurred lines between personal opinions and the views of the trust have been highlighted many times.

It is sad that the bridges are well and truly burnt to a crisp.
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« Reply #395 on: October 12, 2022, 13:58:30 pm »

https://cobblerstome.com/its-all-cobblers-to-me/
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« Reply #396 on: November 08, 2022, 15:43:32 pm »

Hello IACTM. Is there a Pod this week?
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« Reply #397 on: November 08, 2022, 16:58:15 pm »

Hello IACTM. Is there a Pod this week?

Hi St Eds,

Sorry, no. A lot has conspired against us getting an episode this week.

Hoping to get a new Team Talk episode out this week though.  Smiley
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New podcasts released every Tuesday talking all things Northampton Town. Join in by sending your thoughts to podcast@cobblerstome.com or @CobblersToMe on Twitter.

Click here to listen.
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