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Swansea City (a)- League Cup First Round- 13/8/19

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Author Topic: Swansea City (a)- League Cup First Round- 13/8/19  (Read 5347 times)
Another Pedj
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« Reply #160 on: August 15, 2019, 20:29:38 pm »

Are you lot still going on?
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« Reply #161 on: August 15, 2019, 20:38:01 pm »

Are you lot still going on?

You are just checking to make sure we are Wink
You love it really!
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ClarenceInDefence
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« Reply #162 on: August 15, 2019, 21:14:17 pm »

You misunderstand Clarence. Your assertion that those figures show Cornell is the fourth worst keeper in the league is the manipulation. As has been said, not every goal scored will be Cornells fault.
Defender loses possession to striker A on the edge of the box, leaving a two on one with Cornell. Striker A then passes square to striker B who side foots into an open goal would be a good example of a goal that isn't the goalkeepers fault.



No, I don't misunderstand at all, but it seems you do. Of course not every goal can be blamed on Cornell, just the same as they can't for any other 'keeper. Cornell's stats are there to be judged against the other teams, and they don't look good.

And I'll point out again, our defence had the joint 8th best opposition shots on target record in the league last season (which shows they protected the goal a lot better than many believe), yet the 17th worst goals conceded record. Our defence made mistakes last season sure (I thought Buchanan and Taylor were equally as poor as Cornell at times), but it's a fallacy to assume that many (the majority?) other teams did not make plenty of costly defensive errors also.

As to the bold, I never said that. I said that his save ratio stats were the fourth worst and that he was one of the worst performing goalkeepers in the league last season (on this metric at least).
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« Reply #163 on: August 15, 2019, 21:20:33 pm »

Shouldn't the majority of this thread belong on the David v's Steve thread?
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ClarenceInDefence
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« Reply #164 on: August 15, 2019, 21:24:45 pm »

I'm glad you can be so confident about all of that.

Confident? About what? That there is no paradox? There isn't.

Otherwise point out to me where I am wrong. He only made couple of solid stops of note (from a header, and then narrowing the angle when their attacker was through, though the 'finish' was ultimately Hokinsesque) but nothing out of the ordinary. You'll see equivalent stops in most League 2 games week-in-week-out.

View the highlights of last season away to Morecambe if you don't recall how their outfield player performed after the 'keeper had been sent off.
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« Reply #165 on: August 15, 2019, 22:58:02 pm »

Just watched the extended highlights, Cornell was clearly taken out by their No 19 for the first goal.
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« Reply #166 on: August 15, 2019, 23:08:18 pm »

No, I don't misunderstand at all, but it seems you do. Of course not every goal can be blamed on Cornell, just the same as they can't for any other 'keeper. Cornell's stats are there to be judged against the other teams, and they don't look good.

And I'll point out again, our defence had the joint 8th best opposition shots on target record in the league last season (which shows they protected the goal a lot better than many believe), yet the 17th worst goals conceded record. Our defence made mistakes last season sure (I thought Buchanan and Taylor were equally as poor as Cornell at times), but it's a fallacy to assume that many (the majority?) other teams did not make plenty of costly defensive errors also.

As to the bold, I never said that. I said that his save ratio stats were the fourth worst and that he was one of the worst performing goalkeepers in the league last season (on this metric at least).

Yeah, but like we've said the metric is flawed. Unfortunately it seems you cant see that.
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« Reply #167 on: August 15, 2019, 23:15:05 pm »

Confident? About what? That there is no paradox? There isn't.

Otherwise point out to me where I am wrong. He only made couple of solid stops of note (from a header, and then narrowing the angle when their attacker was through, though the 'finish' was ultimately Hokinsesque) but nothing out of the ordinary. You'll see equivalent stops in most League 2 games week-in-week-out.

View the highlights of last season away to Morecambe if you don't recall how their outfield player performed after the 'keeper had been sent off.
I thought they were pretty good saves myself. Furthermore in the thirty five odd games i saw last season there was enough evidence to suggest to me Cornell can be a good shot stopper. Hence the paradox because he also drops clangers. I'm not his biggest fan.
To compare an outfield players performance over ten minutes against any professional keeper at a similar level is frankly ludicrous.
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« Reply #168 on: August 15, 2019, 23:32:36 pm »

Confident? About what? That there is no paradox? There isn't.

Otherwise point out to me where I am wrong. He only made couple of solid stops of note (from a header, and then narrowing the angle when their attacker was through, though the 'finish' was ultimately Hokinsesque) but nothing out of the ordinary. You'll see equivalent stops in most League 2 games week-in-week-out.

View the highlights of last season away to Morecambe if you don't recall how their outfield player performed after the 'keeper had been sent off.


Once again you need to view the official Swansea video as it views all goals from a different angle and is better quality to boot. With the equaliser Cornell was clearly taken out by their number 19. You make no mention of this redeeming factor and also neither does 3Beds . Why is this?
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« Reply #169 on: August 16, 2019, 10:05:09 am »

it doesn't redeem him from the rash decision to run out his goal?!

you don't need another angle to see it - it shows it on the footage we have all seen.

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« Reply #170 on: August 16, 2019, 10:18:40 am »

it doesn't redeem him from the rash decision to run out his goal?!

you don't need another angle to see it - it shows it on the footage we have all seen.



 Grin
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« Reply #171 on: August 16, 2019, 10:37:46 am »

it doesn't redeem him from the rash decision to run out his goal?!





Maybe,maybe not...I'm thinking he wasn't banking on being taken out..However,how many of the people moaning that he came for the ball were complaining that he always stays on his line not too long ago?
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« Reply #172 on: August 16, 2019, 10:40:53 am »

Yeah, but like we've said the metric is flawed. Unfortunately it seems you cant see that.


How do I not see it? You said it is 'flawed' because Cornell would not have been responsible for all goals conceded, such an obvious point I took it as a given. I have pointed out that the same can be said for all 'keepers, that the stats are not 'scientific', but importantly do point out clear patterns.

You gave an example of a defender making an error allowing an attacker to pass to another to tap into an open goal. How many times did such an occurrence happen last year? Many more times than for the majority of sides in the league?

These stats are a guide and indicate that Cornell is a sub-standard shot-stopper in this league.

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« Reply #173 on: August 16, 2019, 11:00:43 am »

I thought they were pretty good saves myself. Furthermore in the thirty five odd games i saw last season there was enough evidence to suggest to me Cornell can be a good shot stopper. Hence the paradox because he also drops clangers. I'm not his biggest fan.
To compare an outfield players performance over ten minutes against any professional keeper at a similar level is frankly ludicrous.

I've already said I thought they were solid, i.e. 'decent' stops, but nothing exceptional. The header wasn't very powerful and while a solid save is one you'd expect to see stopped more often than not. He narrowed the angle well for the one-on-one, but that's it. If It had been Hoskins through on goal and finished as poorly as the Swansea player, he would have been slated on here, which says it all.

Your opinion that Cornell can be a good shot stopper is just that, your opinion. I question whether he is even an 'average' shot stopper for this division, hence there is no paradox in that he often drops 'clangers'.

The comparison with the Morecambe player was to highlight that even unprofessional, non-trained 'keepers are capable of making saves. Were the saves that player made any easier than those 'pretty good saves' made by Cornell against Swansea? If not, then why should a professional 'keeper be praised making saves which are more or less 'routine'? There was nothing remotely exceptional or 'above and beyond what is expected' about the saves he made against Swansea.
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« Reply #174 on: August 16, 2019, 11:08:37 am »

Doing well until he made all the substitutions

Gosh you were there too Roll Eyes
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« Reply #175 on: August 16, 2019, 11:12:46 am »

it doesn't redeem him from the rash decision to run out his goal?!

you don't need another angle to see it - it shows it on the footage we have all seen.



Rubbish it is a much better angle - have you viewed the official Swansea video?
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ClarenceInDefence
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« Reply #176 on: August 16, 2019, 11:15:37 am »

Just watched the extended highlights, Cornell was clearly taken out by their No 19 for the first goal.

He doesn't get 'taken out' at all. He's hesitant to come out, mistimes his run, and is simply weak at coming for the ball, as he often is. I could count on the fingers of one hand the amount of times last season Cornell managed to successfully punch a ball away and on the fingers of my other hand the amount of times he came and claimed a ball into the box if there was even one player in the way. Whenever I see an opposition 'keeper in this division they do not have these problems and the 'keeper for Walsall the other week was another example.

Remember what Curle said he was looking for in a new 'keeper? He's well aware of this issue.
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« Reply #177 on: August 16, 2019, 11:16:49 am »



Once again you need to view the official Swansea video as it views all goals from a different angle and is better quality to boot. With the equaliser Cornell was clearly taken out by their number 19. You make no mention of this redeeming factor and also neither does 3Beds . Why is this?

He doesn't get taken out. I refer you to my above post.
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« Reply #178 on: August 16, 2019, 11:21:08 am »

Rubbish it is a much better angle - have you viewed the official Swansea video?

i dont need to - ive just told you i saw it on the normal footage.

you are arguing against someone who backs up what you said.

nutjob.
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« Reply #179 on: August 16, 2019, 11:22:06 am »

Just watched the extended highlights, Cornell was clearly taken out by their No 19 for the first goal.

Why did Cornell go straight for Roberts to bawl him out - surely if it was that blatant a foul he would have gone straight to the ref?
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