Apathy and the demise of football clubs

[guest1269]

Not to labour the recent shortcomings - the dire performances, the predictable BS spoken post match or indeed the longer term ones - a succession of poor managers, players leaving and only then starting to perform and of course the unfinished Rast a Stand.

There is unfortunately a bigger worry as I see more and more die hard middle aged fans who have supported the club for decades reaching a point where they don’t care anymore  - a defeat should spoil a true fans weekend - a missed game (due for example to a poorly planned wedding) should be a source of intense irritation or indeed thoughts on if both are possible   - well it’s no longer the case for me and many more and I’m very worried for the future of our club.

[Vintage Cobbler]

You are not alone.  Certainly, you can argue that on-pitch events are not connected with ownership issues.  I think otherwise.  In the short term, by which I mean this season, support is draining away from KC and particularly his one dimensional football.  It is awful to watch and large numbers of supporters are restless.  We have had almost a year of Curle’s football and when you add that to the previous 3 seasons of dross it is hardly surprising that there is an air of discontent.  KT is not blameless since it is he who appoints the manager but what we are seeing currently is down to Curle.  It is his team, his signings and his tactics.  Survival route one football is not going to win over supporters.  Fans want and expect more whatever the budget.

However, no one can deny that there is a patent lack of leadership from the top at our club combined with no ambitions other it seems than lining their pockets from the development of land held by CDNL controlled by the very same owners.  A change of ownership of the club is badly need and whist there is always going to be concern that history will repeat itself with any new owners it doesn’t have to be that way. 

It is always possible that results will improve but this would only paper over the cracks.

[BackOfTheNet]

To be honest, I think it's more a case of maturing as you get older rather than anything symptomatic of a deeper problem. I've knocked away games on the head because it's more important for me to spend time with my little girl than it is to drive to Oldham or somewhere and back every other week.

Similarly, in my twenties or thirties I was out with my mates all the while so I'd happily miss a get together for a football match. Now we're in our forties it's increasingly difficult to find a time where we can all meet up, what with family and work commitments and a bit of geographic drift, so if something does come up that clashes with a match then it's the match that will be missed rather than the get together. For me at least, it's nothing to do with the football on offer or any malaise within the club, it's just that my priorities have changed.

[Vintage Cobbler]

Fair point and understood but there should be a new generation of singles coming through to replace those that for family reasons or whatever are less committed than in the past.  As I see it the reasons are the poor entertainment provided season after season and the declining or, at best, stagnating status of the club.

[Dan]

You can only put up with total lack of ambition for so long. I’ve reached that point too. A couple of years ago I’d have used two days of annual leave to travel to Swansea and also Swindon for midweek games, and didn’t consider either for a second. Something needs to change at this club and soon.

[1971cobbler]

A couple of observations;

Just look at what can be done if the club and the whole community get together. Lincoln being the most recent example of this. Beds is right when he says that the current owners don't do enough of this and we are missing out on development (not the stadium) because of this.

Secondly, if we were having a period of success, or even watching attractive football, would these same posts be appearing?

[Vintage Cobbler]

Music to Beds’ ears I’m sure after months of insulting comments from HTE regulars.

The owners do little or nothing. They have other priorities, not least with CDNL.  DB has turned up for about 3 matches in almost 4 years and KT is here a couple of times a month. The situation speaks for itself.  James Whiting and Gareth Wilsher run the club on a daily basis but they are employees only have little real authority since neither are directors.  They do what they are told by the owners and that is the long and short of it.  The community trust side of matters is dependent on money raised locally and is managed and run by its trustees.  KT can claim no personal credit for their good work.

I think critical comments would certainly be less if the team was winning and entertaining on the pitch because that is understandably how most supporters look at things.  However, the football is dire and the results bad.  KC is on the receiving end of a lot of negative remarks about his management and deservedly so. 

If anything good comes out of this current malaise it has to be supporters realising that the problems with the club begin and end at the top.  The question of whether KC stays or goes is a bit of a smokescreen to far deeper issues. 

[singcobb]

I have to say that although I don't get to many games due to the distance I normally check the fixtures so I come to England when we are at home. After watching highlights(if you can call them that) and reading the stuff on here, this time I haven't bothered and wont be going to a game. If we buck our ideas up I might make it over in January for a few games, but that is a big "if".

[BMON]

I think that if you watch very very boring hit and hope football for 3/4 games,
you then question whether it is worth going to get very very bored for £22, + beer/food(travel) etc so say £100/200.

Watching Curle is like watching Atkins's hoof but without the goals,this season has been total non-football.
We can't string 3 passes together and they are told to hoof it.
The players are told not to play it on the ground but hoof ,that's why they all look pi$$ed off

Curle tries to make a simple game complicated, he thinks hes playing chess.

[guest168]

The demise of Bury and Bolton highlight the precarious position we ourselves sit in.

It is only that KT / DB chooses to pay the bills AT THE MINUTE that WE have a football club to support. (his fault as he pissed so much of it up the wall and if he insisted on calling in those £5m debts he heaped on us, the club could fold)

It is absolutely crazy that such a community based 'business' is allowed to be run at the whim of ANYBODY crazy enough to want to do so and can make a few easily broken promises at the time of takeover.

Football clubs under £x turnover should be registered under charities, any loans from directors should be gifts and not put on the balance sheet as debts for tax avoidance purposes. Any non playing assets should be given community status and NOT sold or transferred out unless done via community agreement / court order or similar. The penalties for Directors if they don't act in the clubs best interests should be clear and severe. ie: Giving £8m to a newly formed development company would be a £4m fine.

Pretty sure the whole of the lower league football would be far far better of for it

Both Bury & Bolton were clubs spending way above they should have, their grounds too big in relation to their catchment area and local competition of other clubs, even Bury capacity is almost double ours.

[Athena]

I’m genuinely sad to see Bury expelled from the EFL.  I honestly thought that (as so often has happened in similar circumstance), someone would suddenly appear to ‘steady the ship and they would survive.

The club holds a very special meaning for me.  Some 50 years or more ago it was the first away game I went to ‘on my own’.  I was only 15 or so at the time and went on the Supporters Club bus from outside 195 Abington Avenue at some early hour after previously rising some 2 hours before that so I could catch a United Counties bus from Rushden up to Northampton simply to board the coach.  A lovely lady Kath (who I think ran the Supporters Club at the time) had given my mother assurances that she would look after me on the trip and so she did.  What a fantastic lady she was (I cannot to my shame remember her surname now) but if you had cut Kath her blood would have run and spelt Cobblers. It was a real adventure for me, just a kid from a relatively poor but really happy home on a council estate in Rushden who previously had never been further north than Nottingham.  The further we went the more I saw signs to towns like Rochdale, Bolton etc. places to me that were just names at the time and when we went over the Manchester Ship Canal I thought I had reached the north pole.  I recall actually getting to Bury and for the first time saw a cobbled street!  The whole trip just opened my eyes.  Kath, took me under her wing and somehow got me into their supporters club bar before the game.  I’m sure I was too young to be there really but she managed to get me in.  Unfortunately I recall absolutely nothing of the game itself nor can I recall the result.  It matters not somehow.  I had ventured ‘north’ for the first time in my life and my adventure to Bury formed these memories I still hold and opened my eyes a bit to the country we live in.  I hope Bury manage to continue in some form and that we will see them back soon. 
 
Not sure I’ve posted this on the right 'thread', and if you feel that is so, please forgive as I feel better for putting down some past memories on paper.  I love this game and hate to see any club in this position.

[Clarity]

I’m genuinely sad to see Bury expelled from the EFL.  I honestly thought that (as so often has happened in similar circumstance), someone would suddenly appear to ‘steady the ship and they would survive.

The club holds a very special meaning for me.  Some 50 years or more ago it was the first away game I went to ‘on my own’.  I was only 15 or so at the time and went on the Supporters Club bus from outside 195 Abington Avenue at some early hour after previously rising some 2 hours before that so I could catch a United Counties bus from Rushden up to Northampton simply to board the coach.  A lovely lady Kath (who I think ran the Supporters Club at the time) had given my mother assurances that she would look after me on the trip and so she did.  What a fantastic lady she was (I cannot to my shame remember her surname now) but if you had cut Kath her blood would have run and spelt Cobblers. It was a real adventure for me, just a kid from a relatively poor but really happy home on a council estate in Rushden who previously had never been further north than Nottingham.  The further we went the more I saw signs to towns like Rochdale, Bolton etc. places to me that were just names at the time and when we went over the Manchester Ship Canal I thought I had reached the north pole.  I recall actually getting to Bury and for the first time saw a cobbled street!  The whole trip just opened my eyes.  Kath, took me under her wing and somehow got me into their supporters club bar before the game.  I’m sure I was too young to be there really but she managed to get me in.  Unfortunately I recall absolutely nothing of the game itself nor can I recall the result.  It matters not somehow.  I had ventured ‘north’ for the first time in my life and my adventure to Bury formed these memories I still hold and opened my eyes a bit to the country we live in.  I hope Bury manage to continue in some form and that we will see them back soon. 
 
Not sure I’ve posted this on the right 'thread', and if you feel that is so, please forgive as I feel better for putting down some past memories on paper.  I love this game and hate to see any club in this position.

I've the Hovis ad music running through my mind now

[the grumpy old man]

For those of us who remember the 60's Bury and Gigg Lane will always be remembered as the place where we won 4-1 to clinch promotion to Div 1, the equivalent of the Premier League in those days. Bury had a certain Colin Bell playing for them that day and rumour has it Dave Bowen wanted to sign him in the summer but the board either couldn't or wouldn't fund it.

Mr Bell went on of course to sign for Man City who were a division 2 side at the time, and ultimately play many times for England, including the 1970 World Cup. Oh what might have been.

It's sad to see them go, especially for the fans and I hope they can rise again, phoenix like , from the ashes.

[guest48]

vive.

The club holds a very special meaning for me.  Some 50 years or more ago it was the first away game I went to ‘on my own’.  I was only 15 or so at the time and went on the Supporters Club bus from outside 195 Abington Avenue at some early hour after previously rising some 2 hours before that so I could catch a United Counties bus from Rushden up to Northampton simply to board the coach.  A lovely lady Kath (who I think ran the Supporters Club at the time) had given my mother assurances that she would look after me on the trip and so she did.  What a fantastic lady she was (I cannot to my shame remember her surname now) but if you had cut Kath her blood would have run and spelt Cobblers. n some form and that we will see them back soon. 
 

Kath and Denis Winterburn ran the Supporters Club from 195 Abington Avenue, I also went on some good trips with them

[everbrite]

Not to labour the recent shortcomings - the dire performances, the predictable BS spoken post match or indeed the longer term ones - a succession of poor managers, players leaving and only then starting to perform and of course the unfinished Rast a Stand.

There is unfortunately a bigger worry as I see more and more die hard middle aged fans who have supported the club for decades reaching a point where they don’t care anymore  - a defeat should spoil a true fans weekend - a missed game (due for example to a poorly planned wedding) should be a source of intense irritation or indeed thoughts on if both are possible   - well it’s no longer the case for me and many more and I’m very worried for the future of our club.

Don't agree with much of this. Your first para defines a somewhat deflated persona. As Pedj says 'that the club success mirrors the fans it has'. I think that your opinion mirrors this image. Of course some of the points you raise are quite feasible but they are mainly based on personal worries. As for the die hard fans etc most of them are accustomed to the peaks and troughs especially where we are concerned! True the current form is at best mediocre and not what we expected; the Colchester performance amplified that. Yet nearly 2000 NTFC fans turned up last night for a competition uniformly criticized on here - that was not the apathy creeping in was it? I would wager the majority of fans tighten their belts and hope the corner is turned. We know there will be disappointments coming but you need to buckle down and take it on the chin and keep smiling.

[everbrite]

A couple of observations;

Just look at what can be done if the club and the whole community get together. Lincoln being the most recent example of this. Beds is right when he says that the current owners don't do enough of this and we are missing out on development (not the stadium) because of this.

Secondly, if we were having a period of success, or even watching attractive football, would these same posts be appearing?

Completely right - reminds me a bit of the 'sower' parable

[Grove]

Not to labour the recent shortcomings - the dire performances, the predictable BS spoken post match or indeed the longer term ones - a succession of poor managers, players leaving and only then starting to perform and of course the unfinished Rast a Stand.

There is unfortunately a bigger worry as I see more and more die hard middle aged fans who have supported the club for decades reaching a point where they don’t care anymore  - a defeat should spoil a true fans weekend - a missed game (due for example to a poorly planned wedding) should be a source of intense irritation or indeed thoughts on if both are possible   - well it’s no longer the case for me and many more and I’m very worried for the future of our club.

Could have written this myself although I don't get invited to weddings

[Melbourne Cobbler]

Don’t know if it’s relevant, but every time I tune in to ifollow I feel total envy seeing you lot sitting in the stands, I really do. On a separate note who else remembers all those Bury supporters who turned up to support us against Shrewsbury in 93? That was commitment right there?

[Charlatan]

Don’t know if it’s relevant, but every time I tune in to ifollow I feel total envy seeing you lot sitting in the stands, I really do. On a separate note who else remembers all those Bury supporters who turned up to support us against Shrewsbury in 93? That was commitment right there?

I remember that very well Melbourne. With a couple of mins to go. I can remember Cobbs fans singing over to them Bury Bury give us song. To which gave rousing "You are staying up say You are staying up". My wife is from Bury, the Charlatan household is a very solemn place tonight. I really hope The Shakers can do a Wimbledon.

[GrangeParkCobbler]

The demise of Bury and Bolton highlight the precarious position we ourselves sit in.

It is only that KT / DB chooses to pay the bills AT THE MINUTE that WE have a football club to support. (his fault as he pissed so much of it up the wall and if he insisted on calling in those £5m debts he heaped on us, the club could fold)

It is absolutely crazy that such a community based 'business' is allowed to be run at the whim of ANYBODY crazy enough to want to do so and can make a few easily broken promises at the time of takeover.

Football clubs under £x turnover should be registered under charities, any loans from directors should be gifts and not put on the balance sheet as debts for tax avoidance purposes. Any non playing assets should be given community status and NOT sold or transferred out unless done via community agreement / court order or similar. The penalties for Directors if they don't act in the clubs best interests should be clear and severe. ie: Giving £8m to a newly formed development company would be a £4m fine.

Pretty sure the whole of the lower league football would be far far better of for it

Both Bury & Bolton were clubs spending way above they should have, their grounds too big in relation to their catchment area and local competition of other clubs, even Bury capacity is almost double ours.

Pretty much agree with this....each year the clubs accounts show a loss, last season showed a massive loss, and the accounts all end with words along the lines of the club needed the continued support of its directors to remain solvent......

How much more tangled could the web behind Bury have been compared to our own shell companies owing other shell companies owing off shore companies. Land tie ups, the East Stand actually listed as an asset of the club etc.

We've apparently been up for sale for a while, and apparently been seeking outside investment for even longer......there doesn't seem to be a queue or willing buyers/investors.

The whole "football model" is wrong......yes I get that many clubs are in the same position as us.....but it doesn't mean its right.

The longer our football club is run as a side-show to some land deal and housing/retail/industrial development the more I lose interest.