Deepcut Cobbler
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« Reply #140 on: September 18, 2019, 16:24:56 pm » |
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Ok thanks, understood. So in this case, it's a subjective interpretation as to what is deemed unsporting or reckless. I thought it was either that he momentarliy had both feet off the ground or that it was for an overly aggressive challenge. The first I could accept, but I didnt personally think it was an overly aggressive tackle, just a well timed one that needed to be (else he would have been in trouble). How the game has changed.
Unfortunately/fortunately, it has. 'Reckless' is the key word. A direct free kick offence will not necessarily attract a caution, however if committed in a careless manner that endangers the opponent without thought for the consequences, it is classified as Reckless and will. There is a fine line between Reckless and Serious Foul Play (excessive force or brutality), again an interpretation based on intent, which it probably would have been if he fully followed through.
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“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old: Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning We will remember them.” Laurence Binyon
The Hotelend Grand National Sweepstake Champion 2009
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Madrid Cobbler
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« Reply #141 on: September 18, 2019, 16:34:41 pm » |
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We certainly weren't great last night, but once again we looked very solid at the back and if we can keep that up we could have a good season. The spirit and passion seems to be there and we have a good defensive unit.
Excellent goal from Smith but frankly I thought the sending off was deserved. I think his first booking was for holding on to the ball while running back which is why the Stevenage goalie pushed him. Yellow card for both seems fair to me. Second yellow was a rash challenge which would have got a yellow from most refs. Both yellows totally unnecessary.
This brings me to another point. I think we are constantly pushing the gamesmanship limits when we are ahead in matches. Although all teams do it to an extent, I honestly think we're one of the worst I've seen for timewasting, holding on to the ball or kicking it away. We also show very little nouse when doing these things by holding on to the ball a bit longer than other teams or not moving away when the ref tell us when defending free kicks. We are lucky not to get more bookings like the one given to Smith yesterday. The main problem though is that I think it's counterproductive, both in attracting unnecessary bookings, getting the ref on the other team's side and winding up opposition fans, giving them a reason to get behind their team more.
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Melbourne Cobbler
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« Reply #142 on: September 18, 2019, 17:20:21 pm » |
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You can blame the players, but you still have to say that you wonder what’s going on with the EFL allowing Breakspear to continue? He must be aware of his reputation yet he still continues to do it “his way”. Ultimately the main issue with referees and what everyone would like to see is consistency. I am afraid there should be no place in the league for referees with the mindset of Breakspear. Either that or every other referee needs to modify their approach to his, which I am sure would be his view?
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Not a real supporter but unelected chair of the Northampton Town Honorary Supporters Club. (Please note: any opinions given may not necessarily be shared by proper supporters. In incidents of conflict the views of real supporters shall take precedence).
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Melbourne Cobbler
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« Reply #143 on: September 18, 2019, 17:58:01 pm » |
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To elaborate on this topic and for those who haven’t seen it there is a staggering statistic that has been reported in the Chron regarding Breakspear “Of the eight games he’s reffed Town across the past three seasons, he’s sent off seven different players. For context, of the other 134 league games Northampton have played in the same period, they’ve had a total of just eight red cards“ For those into sums that’s 87% versus 6% red cards/matches. There are 2 possible explanations for this, complete coincidence or complete cnnt. My moneys on the latter.
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Not a real supporter but unelected chair of the Northampton Town Honorary Supporters Club. (Please note: any opinions given may not necessarily be shared by proper supporters. In incidents of conflict the views of real supporters shall take precedence).
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Deepcut Cobbler
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« Reply #144 on: September 18, 2019, 17:59:27 pm » |
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You can blame the players, but you still have to say that you wonder what’s going on with the EFL allowing Breakspear to continue? He must be aware of his reputation yet he still continues to do it “his way”. Ultimately the main issue with referees and what everyone would like to see is consistency. I am afraid there should be no place in the league for referees with the mindset of Breakspear. Either that or every other referee needs to modify their approach to his, which I am sure would be his view?
Many would argue that 'his way' and his application of the Law is the correct way. He officiates in accordance with the Law, why is he wrong? Shouldn't the argument be for the others to have the same consistently correct approach? The number of 'new' (and some of the old) referees we have seen this season already have not applied the Law with any consistency whatsoever, which creates more problems. Those that know me, know that I criticise as well as defend officials, for example; the Bradford official lost control of the game to the players midway through the first half. He would probably have been figuratively 'slaughtered' for that by his observer but in a positive manner to encourage improvement. We'll see, the next time we have him. Mr Breakspear is the epitome of what you are asking for but you criticise him for it?
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“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old: Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning We will remember them.” Laurence Binyon
The Hotelend Grand National Sweepstake Champion 2009
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Melbourne Cobbler
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« Reply #145 on: September 18, 2019, 18:23:22 pm » |
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Many would argue that 'his way' and his application of the Law is the correct way. He officiates in accordance with the Law, why is he wrong? Shouldn't the argument be for the others to have the same consistently correct approach? The number of 'new' (and some of the old) referees we have seen this season already have not applied the Law with any consistency whatsoever, which creates more problems. Those that know me, know that I criticise as well as defend officials, for example; the Bradford official lost control of the game to the players midway through the first half. He would probably have been figuratively 'slaughtered' for that by his observer but in a positive manner to encourage improvement. We'll see, the next time we have him. Mr Breakspear is the epitome of what you are asking for but you criticise him for it?
It’s a fair point DC but my view is slightly different. Put it another way, which is preferable, players modify their style of play to suit the relevant official? Or officials try to achieve a consistent benchmark in their interpretation of the laws? I think the only realistic answer is the latter. It should be the role of officials to apply the laws impartially, fairly and consistently. The key with consistency is comparably with other officials, not solely within the confines of individual interpretation, otherwise it is not fair. It should be a fundamental part of the officials role to seek parity with the rest of their profession, not act like Dirty Harry and be the one good cop in a bad town. No, I’m afraid my view is Mr Breakspear has lost his way, because lack of consistency goes against the basic principle of application of the laws of any field. Consistency has to be applied both individually and collectively in equal measure, not severally or by definition it can’t be consistent and that goes against a primary principle in the application of any law.
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« Last Edit: September 18, 2019, 18:49:20 pm by Melbourne Cobbler »
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Not a real supporter but unelected chair of the Northampton Town Honorary Supporters Club. (Please note: any opinions given may not necessarily be shared by proper supporters. In incidents of conflict the views of real supporters shall take precedence).
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everbrite
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« Reply #146 on: September 18, 2019, 18:26:09 pm » |
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We certainly weren't great last night, but once again we looked very solid at the back and if we can keep that up we could have a good season. The spirit and passion seems to be there and we have a good defensive unit.
Excellent goal from Smith but frankly I thought the sending off was deserved. I think his first booking was for holding on to the ball while running back which is why the Stevenage goalie pushed him. Yellow card for both seems fair to me. Second yellow was a rash challenge which would have got a yellow from most refs. Both yellows totally unnecessary.
This brings me to another point. I think we are constantly pushing the gamesmanship limits when we are ahead in matches. Although all teams do it to an extent, I honestly think we're one of the worst I've seen for timewasting, holding on to the ball or kicking it away. We also show very little nouse when doing these things by holding on to the ball a bit longer than other teams or not moving away when the ref tell us when defending free kicks. We are lucky not to get more bookings like the one given to Smith yesterday. The main problem though is that I think it's counterproductive, both in attracting unnecessary bookings, getting the ref on the other team's side and winding up opposition fans, giving them a reason to get behind their team more.
I am still of the opinion that Smiths first yellow was to put it mildly very harsh both should have been warned neither warranted a yellow. As for the second yellow it is easy to say it was a red; but the Stevenage players got what they wanted - Smith sent off. In other words they influenced the referee ably assisted by their player who lay in a crumpled heap but miraculously revived after sending off. The referee showed no interest in the fallen player it was more about a red card being shown with hardly a moments hesitation. Perhaps the Stevenage player might have been booked for simulation?
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2020 Grand National S/S 3rd Place
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Charlatan
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« Reply #147 on: September 18, 2019, 18:53:55 pm » |
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We certainly weren't great last night, but once again we looked very solid at the back and if we can keep that up we could have a good season. The spirit and passion seems to be there and we have a good defensive unit.
Excellent goal from Smith but frankly I thought the sending off was deserved. I think his first booking was for holding on to the ball while running back which is why the Stevenage goalie pushed him. Yellow card for both seems fair to me. Second yellow was a rash challenge which would have got a yellow from most refs. Both yellows totally unnecessary.
This brings me to another point. I think we are constantly pushing the gamesmanship limits when we are ahead in matches. Although all teams do it to an extent, I honestly think we're one of the worst I've seen for timewasting, holding on to the ball or kicking it away. We also show very little nouse when doing these things by holding on to the ball a bit longer than other teams or not moving away when the ref tell us when defending free kicks. We are lucky not to get more bookings like the one given to Smith yesterday. The main problem though is that I think it's counterproductive, both in attracting unnecessary bookings, getting the ref on the other team's side and winding up opposition fans, giving them a reason to get behind their team more.
Good post Madrid. I must admit our time wasting/gamesmanship actually does my head in. Like you said we're not exactly clever about it. However I'll take the win, can't believe I'm really looking forward to Saturday again, that's 2 weeks on the trot now. Hats off to the team, KC & the travelling army, well done all round. UTC.
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guest48
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« Reply #148 on: September 18, 2019, 19:00:17 pm » |
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To elaborate on this topic and for those who haven’t seen it there is a staggering statistic that has been reported in the Chron regarding Breakspear “Of the eight games he’s reffed Town across the past three seasons, he’s sent off seven different players. For context, of the other 134 league games Northampton have played in the same period, they’ve had a total of just eight red cards“ For those into sums that’s 87% versus 6% red cards/matches. There are 2 possible explanations for this, complete coincidence or complete cnnt. My moneys on the latter.
Another point, knowing how much Breakspeare likes to dish out cards, in those 8 games he's reffed us, how many red cards have the opposition had ? the answer is NONE ! Must be a coincidence that our opponents are on their best behaviour. The bloke has a deep dislike of us and doesn't try to hide it, he's a d*ckhead
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guest3063
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« Reply #149 on: September 18, 2019, 19:15:44 pm » |
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Another point, knowing how much Breakspeare likes to dish out cards, in those 8 games he's reffed us, how many red cards have the opposition had ? the answer is NONE ! Must be a coincidence that our opponents are on their best behaviour. The bloke has a deep dislike of us and doesn't try to hide it, he's a d*ckhead
He did send that Walsall striker off (Bakayoko) a couple of seasons ago but then Matt Crooks talked himself into being sent off shortly afterwards.
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EB Claret
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« Reply #150 on: September 18, 2019, 20:10:11 pm » |
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He did send that Walsall striker off (Bakayoko) a couple of seasons ago but then Matt Crooks talked himself into being sent off shortly afterwards.
Pretty sure Crooks was told by the Ref he was being sent off for violent conduct, which never happened. He's the king of the idiot referees.
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Larry
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« Reply #151 on: September 18, 2019, 20:41:01 pm » |
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I appreciate I'm in the minority here but to give the point of view from Breakespeare is that if a player deliberately commits a foul then he's a definite candidate for a yellow or red card. Clumsy and miss-timed tackles can be forgiven but if you deliberately foul a player then you shouldn't be allowed to complain about the level of punishment. It was the same with hand balls and 'professional' fouls back in the day. Cynical and deliberate tackles should be eradicated from football.
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1971cobbler
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« Reply #152 on: September 19, 2019, 05:45:23 am » |
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It’s a fair point DC but my view is slightly different. Put it another way, which is preferable, players modify their style of play to suit the relevant official? Or officials try to achieve a consistent benchmark in their interpretation of the laws? I think the only realistic answer is the latter. It should be the role of officials to apply the laws impartially, fairly and consistently. The key with consistency is comparably with other officials, not solely within the confines of individual interpretation, otherwise it is not fair. It should be a fundamental part of the officials role to seek parity with the rest of their profession, not act like Dirty Harry and be the one good cop in a bad town. No, I’m afraid my view is Mr Breakspear has lost his way, because lack of consistency goes against the basic principle of application of the laws of any field. Consistency has to be applied both individually and collectively in equal measure, not severally or by definition it can’t be consistent and that goes against a primary principle in the application of any law.
KCs comments about the referee in the Chron sum the situation up perfectly for me. He said (in summary) that applying the law by dishing out soft yellow cards early in the game then leaves nowhere to go later on when things heat up a bit. Curle suggested that he wished our nemesis would learn a bit from this and use a more common sense approach and let the game flow a bit more. Not sure whether that's ever going to happen though!
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guest3264
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« Reply #153 on: September 19, 2019, 06:23:41 am » |
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Anybody find out the total of the excellant Cobblers turnout for Tuesday night's game?
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Deepcut Cobbler
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« Reply #154 on: September 19, 2019, 06:37:59 am » |
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Anybody find out the total of the excellant Cobblers turnout for Tuesday night's game?
460 out of 2877 apparently...
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“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old: Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning We will remember them.” Laurence Binyon
The Hotelend Grand National Sweepstake Champion 2009
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guest2995
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« Reply #155 on: September 19, 2019, 07:38:44 am » |
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When all is said and done , Breakspear handled the game relatively well and Smith deserved to be sent off. Moving forward , Smith would be well advised to channel his aggression to make himself a better footballer rather than acting as a hot head all over the pitch every time he plays . If he did that , he could turn out to be a decent player
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everbrite
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« Reply #156 on: September 19, 2019, 09:05:05 am » |
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When all is said and done , Breakspear handled the game relatively well and Smith deserved to be sent off. Moving forward , Smith would be well advised to channel his aggression to make himself a better footballer rather than acting as a hot head all over the pitch every time he plays . If he did that , he could turn out to be a decent player
So now in addition to KC you now add Smith as a target for your unprincipled comments.
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2020 Grand National S/S 3rd Place
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guest2995
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« Reply #157 on: September 19, 2019, 09:30:43 am » |
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So now in addition to KC you now add Smith as a target for your unprincipled comments.
Ha ha ..... hilarious how you try to get a reaction . Have you got a slow day ahead or something ?
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Dan
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« Reply #158 on: September 19, 2019, 11:03:19 am » |
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460 out of 2877 apparently...
This was laughable. Not a chance was there anywhere near 2,400 home fans.
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The Hotelend Grand National Sweepstake Champion 2013
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guest2995
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« Reply #159 on: September 19, 2019, 11:05:08 am » |
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Quote from KC “ we took an extra touch and people came in short to supply a pass to “ In other words - wallop it son and you lot chase after the f****r.... Today’s training - watch the rugby World Cup ! Keep on trucking lads
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