Leyton Orient - 5th October

[observer1]

And as if today's performance wasn't bad enough, it's probably worth putting some context into the previous two results, which felt bad enough at the time given we were 2-0 up in both...

Northampton    2-2    Crawley Town
Crawley Town    2-3    Walsall FC (Walsall have since been beaten 3-0 at home by Salford)
Crawley Town    1-2    Norwich U21 (Norwich's youth came into this off the back of 5 straight defeats)
Forest Green    3-1    Crawley Town

Morecambe FC    2-2    Northampton
Port Vale    3-1    Morecambe FC

So, the two teams we blew 2-0 leads against have racked up the following form sequence between them since: LLLL
And conceded 11 goals in the process.

Conclusion: Doomed to mid-table mediocrity at best under Curle

[guest2995]

Curle has to be under real scrutiny .
The leading players he has brought In such as Smith , Liines , Warburton and Adams have all under performed . Others haven’t hardly played and the youngsters have been largely ignored .
Why on earth Williams went out on loan this week , who knows !
Player development is virtually non existent and all the focus is on shape and basic low level football you could teach a dog to play

[Larry]

Jeez, I wouldn't want you miserable sods in the trenches with me. It was a scruffy game and either could have won it.
We are going to play a lot worse and win games and you will be all over them.
Up The Cobblers

[Irchy cob]

Jeez, I wouldn't want you miserable sods in the trenches with me. It was a scruffy game and either could have won it.
We are going to play a lot worse and win games and you will be all over them.
Up The Cobblers

Really? I can’t see how we could play worse than that - from what I saw there were no positives to be taken particularly from our “attacking efforts”. I notice that KC was at pains to hold his hands up and not attempt to brush over the awful performance (before more or less putting it all dow to Goode being ill) but there was no suggestion of getting them in for extra training.

[Vintage Cobbler]

So much for the "progressive football" promised by Curle at the start of the season.  What we are seeing is the return of hoof-ball and midfield being by-passed. It is ugly, unimaginative and dire to watch. 

The only consolation was that our owner Bower was present with KT to see the fruits of 4 years of their regressive ownership.  The again I don't think for a moment that he is over here for football reasons. That would be expecting too much.  NBC meeting perhaps?

[guest2995]

Really? I can’t see how we could play worse than that - from what I saw there were no positives to be taken particularly from our “attacking efforts”. I notice that KC was at pains to hold his hands up and not attempt to brush over the awful performance (before more or less putting it all dow to Goode being ill) but there was no suggestion of getting them in for extra training.

I have been told that the training is poor.
It’s all about recovery and not about improvement of skill levels. The quote I was given is that it’s like going back to the ‘80s.
I am afraid this shows through on the pitch . The coaching at the club , from a first hand source is extremely basic

[guest1269]

.....the quote I was given is that it’s like going back to the ‘80s.
I am afraid this shows through on the pitch . The coaching at the club , from a first hand source is extremely basic

That absolutely sums up the situation - result will be lower mid table mediocrity, lower gates, poor entertainment, poor development of promising youngsters - KC is taking us nowhere and in football like life, if you stand still you go backwards. Like many I was underwhelmed with the appointment (based on his track record over 16 years of management) - but also knowing we simply could not continue changing had to give him my support - it’s been one year now and sadly I am resigned to a season of indifference but if his contract is renewed or extended at the end of the season I will not be purchasing a ST after 40 plus years of holding one.

[Ron Obvious]

Entertainment value yesterday....

Leyton Orient 4
Northampton 3
The crowd 8.

[Ron Obvious]

Anderson!

I would bring him back in. Good player if a little aged at 31. Then Matt Harrold did ok yesterday and he is mid thirties.

[Coolcat]

Entertainment value yesterday....

Leyton Orient 4
Northampton 3
The crowd 8.

Orient were the quietest fans in a long, long while...so much so, that combined with the garbage on the pitch, reduced the West Stand (North - non existent yesterday) to a subdued submission within around twenty minutes!

[Ron Obvious]

Orient were the quietest fans in a long, long while...so much so, that combined with the garbage on the pitch, reduced the West Stand (North - non existent yesterday) to a subdued submission within around twenty minutes!

I wasn't referring to the vocal element of the fans.

[guest2995]

That absolutely sums up the situation - result will be lower mid table mediocrity, lower gates, poor entertainment, poor development of promising youngsters - KC is taking us nowhere and in football like life, if you stand still you go backwards. Like many I was underwhelmed with the appointment (based on his track record over 16 years of management) - but also knowing we simply could not continue changing had to give him my support - it’s been one year now and sadly I am resigned to a season of indifference but if his contract is renewed or extended at the end of the season I will not be purchasing a ST after 40 plus years of holding one.

Spot on .
The football being served up by and large is garbage . It doesn’t have to be that way and quite honestly Curle is hiding. Outdated , unimaginative ,dire football

[GrangeParkCobbler]

As I said, he is a dinosaur!

The u18’s have a creative and exciting coach in Brady and are winning game after game whilst scoring goals and playing well.

It is strange there is no connect between the youth setup and the senior setup, instead of seemingly working together they might as well be two different clubs.

It’s no wonder Curle doesn’t play the youth, they don’t play his ‘boring’ style.

[guest2995]

As I said, he is a dinosaur!

The u18’s have a creative and exciting coach in Brady and are winning game after game whilst scoring goals and playing well.

It is strange there is no connect between the youth setup and the senior setup, instead of seemingly working together they might as well be two different clubs.

It’s no wonder Curle doesn’t play the youth, they don’t play his ‘boring’ style.

Yep . It’s a complete waste while Curle is there .

[west stand oap]

I said to somebody sitting near me that I could not see what our plan was as we appeared to just hoof the ball forward at every opportunity. In the post match interview KC confirmed that playing hoof ball was indeed the intention, for the strikers to win ariel ball then to win the second ball. Well it did not work as the defenders won more ariel balls than our strikers and the balls we got our heads to you could count the number of second balls we won on the fingers of one finger. This also goes some way to explain why only one team in the division has a worse % of completed passes than us.
With no disrespect intended to the lad if you see Smith's name on the team sheet you know what type of game you are in for. Yes he gets held a lot by defenders but he also gives away a lot of free kicks. There was an instance in the second half when we had a free kick just outside the penalty area that as soon as the kick was taken immediately gave away a free kick.
Apparently Goode's illness completely upset the balance of the side so that will explain the lack of midfield creativaty and sterile attack.
How many times did send free kicks and crosses directly to their keeper who will not have an easier afternoon all season. The only save he had to make was tipping over Wharton's shot in the 82nd minute.
I would say that only Cornell and Wharton came out of that game with an credit. At least when Wharton is on the ball he tries to pick a pass. Remember no team had conceded more goals than Orient and although their defence looked shakey at times we did not look like scoring.
Orient were a poor side but at least they tried to play football. For the goal once the ball was played behind the full back it was inevitable as both of our full backs are outstripped for pace.
An interesting question is with McCormack about to return to the side is what will KC do with Turnbull as surely we do not need 2 defensive midfielders. Will he revert to three centre backs with wing backs?

[Manwork04]

I would bring him back in. Good player if a little aged at 31. Then Matt Harrold did ok yesterday and he is mid thirties.

Anderson for Hoskins all day long.

[ClarenceInDefence]

I said to somebody sitting near me that I could not see what our plan was as we appeared to just hoof the ball forward at every opportunity. In the post match interview KC confirmed that playing hoof ball was indeed the intention, for the strikers to win ariel ball then to win the second ball. Well it did not work as the defenders won more ariel balls than our strikers and the balls we got our heads to you could count the number of second balls we won on the fingers of one finger. This also goes some way to explain why only one team in the division has a worse % of completed passes than us.
With no disrespect intended to the lad if you see Smith's name on the team sheet you know what type of game you are in for. Yes he gets held a lot by defenders but he also gives away a lot of free kicks. There was an instance in the second half when we had a free kick just outside the penalty area that as soon as the kick was taken immediately gave away a free kick.
Apparently Goode's illness completely upset the balance of the side so that will explain the lack of midfield creativaty and sterile attack.
How many times did send free kicks and crosses directly to their keeper who will not have an easier afternoon all season. The only save he had to make was tipping over Wharton's shot in the 82nd minute.
I would say that only Cornell and Wharton came out of that game with an credit. At least when Wharton is on the ball he tries to pick a pass. Remember no team had conceded more goals than Orient and although their defence looked shakey at times we did not look like scoring.
Orient were a poor side but at least they tried to play football. For the goal once the ball was played behind the full back it was inevitable as both of our full backs are outstripped for pace.
An interesting question is with McCormack about to return to the side is what will KC do with Turnbull as surely we do not need 2 defensive midfielders. Will he revert to three centre backs with wing backs?

He could play two defensive midfielders in a two man 'pivot'.

When everyone is fit I'd like to see this set-up:

                      Arnold

Hall-Johnson  Goode  Wharton  Harriman

           McCormack  Turnbull

     Kaja          Watson         Adams

                     Williams

SUBS: Oliver, Lines, Warburton, Hoskins, Martin, McWilliams, Pollock, Cornell

The full-backs would get licence to push forward in this set-up, while I think Kaja, Watson and Adams are would be our best 3 attacking midfielders/wingers.

Smith shouldn't be anywhere near the 18 at the moment, while Hoskins and McWilliams aren't good enough, though Hoskins would still make the bench. Lines needs a period out of the XI as well.

[ClarenceInDefence]

I’ve tried to get behind KC as much as possible but that was indefensible. Lines and Adams are nicking livings at the moment and smith looks green as grass. KC was trying to make out that Goode being out meant a big reshuffle but effectively it was like for like with Hall-Johnson just coming in for him (I know they are completely different players but I though H-J was ok) - it didn’t excuse the complete shambles going forward.

I agree about Lines and Smith, but don't agree about Adams. I think he had a reasonable game yesterday, and couldn't fault his effort at the very least. Smith, McWilliams, Hoskins aren't anywhere neaar good enough for a side that has even the remotest of ambitions on pushing for promotion and Lines isn't at it at all currently. Why Curle persists with Smith when Oliver looks by far the better player god only knows.

I agree that Hall-Johnson was OK, but he's too small for a centre-back really. I'd put him in at right-back and push Harriman to the left in place of Martin.

[ClarenceInDefence]

Good point and absolutely not an excuse because we deserved to lose but the ref was shocking - the amount of holding and blatant shirt pulling on Smith and Williams was unbelievable and the longer Orient got away with it of course the more they did - worse ref this season by far.

Yes, can't the ref for the result at all, but it's still worth mentioning how bad he was. I said early into the game he was a weak ref and then he bottled giving their player a red-card for a terrible challenge on Adams. The linesman on the east-stand side was also very poor and was easily influenced by their players calling for decisions. Frustrating stuff.

[ClarenceInDefence]

The lineup for next week is likely to be very different - Goode, Turnbull, McCormack and Oliver will all be back or have surely done enough to get in which hopefully makes getting a result more possible (and perhaps Anderson will be in unless that is the most random rumour I’ve ever heard at a match). The more worrying thing for me is the complete lack of depth/quality that we seem to have and the alarming form of the likes of Adams, lines, Smith and warburton (a bit unfair on the latter as he is giving his all and needs the chance to adjust to league football). It seemed to rub off on McWilliams today but I still think it was a bit unfair to take him off and leave the completely ineffective lines on.

I called the McWilliams sub 15 minutes before it happened, but Lines should have been taken off as well instead of Williams. Curle should have made the subs at least 10 minutes earlier, if not at least 1 at half-time as it was obvious nothing was working. He got it badly wrong yesterday.