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Papering over the cracks

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Melbourne Cobbler
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« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2020, 23:35:57 pm »

So according to the consensus the appointment of Curle hasn’t worked out? In that case I make it 5 in a row since Wilder. Whilst saying I was a bit miffed at staying up all night for that is an understatement l, this policy of changing managers doesn’t seem to get the desired outcome does it? As we are currently in the play offs perhaps a bit of continuity might be advisable? In fairness this is only 4 months with his own squad  and the most important signing currently has a sick note? Results, resilience, entertainment in that order if you ask me? If it was my wallet there is no way on gods earth I would give even a rapid eye movement of consideration to a change. Not with how the managerial musical chairs game seems to work out with regards to outcome and cost? You lot are bonkers, it was sh1t though.
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« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2020, 00:19:00 am »

Consensus?
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« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2020, 07:26:34 am »

Any thoughts that KC will be sacked at this stage of the season are fanciful, dire though the football is to watch.  With KC out of contract at the end of the season his future at NTFC may well depend on what division the club is in.  The less committed are not turning up even on bank holidays to support the team and the patience of the faithful is being stretched with what they are seeing. Failure to reach the play-offs at least could cost KC his job but I have no idea of our owners expectations.

KC is walking the tightrope with supporters but most managers work in fear of losing their job so it is hardly a surprise that KC is adopting a win at all costs approach with entertainment nowhere on the agenda. 
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« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2020, 07:42:50 am »

but I have no idea of our owners expectations.



I’d be more interested in knowing the supports expectations.

I'm very clear on the owners intent.
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« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2020, 07:52:16 am »

If you do then please share with us.
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« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2020, 08:28:34 am »

In many ways, Curle is a competent lower league manager. He knows how to organise a defence and he's better than Austin, Hasselbaink and quite a few other incumbents we've had over the years. Despite the dire quality of the football from an aesthetic point of view, as the manager of a team in a play-off spot he's a long way from being in any danger.

To play devil's advocate, I think that he envisaged Warburton and Lines as providing the creativity this year, with Martin providing crosses as a left-wing back to match Adams' output on the right. The fact that none of these signings has so far worked out could be ascribed to inadequate scouting or it could be ascribed to bad luck. Goode, Wharton, McCormack, Adams and Oliver have all been strong signings who have improved the squad, so he's got more right than wrong - it's just a shame that the duds have been in the creative positions.

The big test is what comes next.  Can he make it second time lucky and bring in the playmaker and left-wing back we desperately need? Can he evolve the team into a unit which can play both efficient L2 direct football and something less predictable, more varied and more entertaining? Can he deliver that elusive first career promotion?

His contract is up at the end of the season and that is the time to evaluate these things. In the meantime, he ain't going anywhere, we've had far worse and we may as well get behind him, remain constructively critical and see where he takes us.
 


Great post, I agree totally with this.
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« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2020, 10:08:09 am »

In many ways, Curle is a competent lower league manager. He knows how to organise a defence and he's better than Austin, Hasselbaink and quite a few other incumbents we've had over the years. Despite the dire quality of the football from an aesthetic point of view, as the manager of a team in a play-off spot he's a long way from being in any danger.

To play devil's advocate, I think that he envisaged Warburton and Lines as providing the creativity this year, with Martin providing crosses as a left-wing back to match Adams' output on the right. The fact that none of these signings has so far worked out could be ascribed to inadequate scouting or it could be ascribed to bad luck. Goode, Wharton, McCormack, Adams and Oliver have all been strong signings who have improved the squad, so he's got more right than wrong - it's just a shame that the duds have been in the creative positions.

The big test is what comes next.  Can he make it second time lucky and bring in the playmaker and left-wing back we desperately need? Can he evolve the team into a unit which can play both efficient L2 direct football and something less predictable, more varied and more entertaining? Can he deliver that elusive first career promotion?

His contract is up at the end of the season and that is the time to evaluate these things. In the meantime, he ain't going anywhere, we've had far worse and we may as well get behind him, remain constructively critical and see where he takes us.
 


Finally a sensible post in this thread.

Whilst we would all like pretty football and to sit top of the league we are undoubtedly in a better position than we were when Curlio took over.

To the person who said league position isnt everything, yes. It is. Certainly if you are a manager, definitely if you're the manager of a cash strapped perennial non achiever.

A promotion potentially brings bigger gates and the ability to attract better players. You would hope so anyway
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« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2020, 10:09:40 am »

In many ways, Curle is a competent lower league manager. He knows how to organise a defence and he's better than Austin, Hasselbaink and quite a few other incumbents we've had over the years. Despite the dire quality of the football from an aesthetic point of view, as the manager of a team in a play-off spot he's a long way from being in any danger.

To play devil's advocate, I think that he envisaged Warburton and Lines as providing the creativity this year, with Martin providing crosses as a left-wing back to match Adams' output on the right. The fact that none of these signings has so far worked out could be ascribed to inadequate scouting or it could be ascribed to bad luck. Goode, Wharton, McCormack, Adams and Oliver have all been strong signings who have improved the squad, so he's got more right than wrong - it's just a shame that the duds have been in the creative positions.

The big test is what comes next.  Can he make it second time lucky and bring in the playmaker and left-wing back we desperately need? Can he evolve the team into a unit which can play both efficient L2 direct football and something less predictable, more varied and more entertaining? Can he deliver that elusive first career promotion?

His contract is up at the end of the season and that is the time to evaluate these things. In the meantime, he ain't going anywhere, we've had far worse and we may as well get behind him, remain constructively critical and see where he takes us.

This post hits the nail on the head.
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« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2020, 10:23:17 am »

22nd in in Lge when he took over in Oct 2018. A lot of decent high earning players (with a s***e attitude) had to be sold. He's had a lower budget to work with than Page, Edinburgh (RIP) & JFH. We're now in a play-off spot, I think we've made around the 100k mark due to (for us) a reasonable cup run. So obviously he's got to go!
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« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2020, 10:36:50 am »

Consensus?
From the Latin consentire or agreed. However, following more recent posts can I downgrade that to bollox, from the Latin testis?
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« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2020, 10:44:42 am »

I think KC has done very well in recruiting some solid players to help the spine of the team, but not so great when it comes to the flair players. I think he at least deserves another transfer window to see if he can address that. This is the crux for me - the style of play is very much down to the players available - I quite like watching them when McCormack is in the team, but when he's not it's a midfield that's bypassed when we have the ball and overrun when we don't. And nobody really wants to watch that.
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« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2020, 12:46:35 pm »

If we want flair players why not sign Grimes and Crooks?...........................oh no some fans still moaned when we had their quality in the side!!

KC is judged on results not flair.

Yes I want to see more football played with pace and hope KC rectifies that in the current window.
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« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2020, 12:54:38 pm »

If we want flair players why not sign Grimes and Crooks?...........................oh no some fans still moaned when we had their quality in the side!!

KC is judged on results not flair.

Yes I want to see more football played with pace and hope KC rectifies that in the current window.

Bit of a generalisation...… KC is judged on results? If that is so then why are so many questioning the performances when we are winning? Kt may be making part judgement on results, but could also be looking at gate figures and wondering why the gates are depressed despite our lofty position in the table.

Yes we had flair players, but they didn't perform....or perhaps they were too clever for those around them! None of our midfielders currently can burst through the middle and score goals like Crooks could/did/does!
You could argue that Adams is a flair player, potentially Hoskins too? If flair is running at the opponents and creating chances. I thought Kaja was brought in as a flair player, bags of pace and able to take players on...yet Kaja can't get near the team!
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« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2020, 13:44:54 pm »

Bit of a generalisation...… KC is judged on results? If that is so then why are so many questioning the performances when we are winning? Kt may be making part judgement on results, but could also be looking at gate figures and wondering why the gates are depressed despite our lofty position in the table.

Yes we had flair players, but they didn't perform....or perhaps they were too clever for those around them! None of our midfielders currently can burst through the middle and score goals like Crooks could/did/does!
You could argue that Adams is a flair player, potentially Hoskins too? If flair is running at the opponents and creating chances. I thought Kaja was brought in as a flair player, bags of pace and able to take players on...yet Kaja can't get near the team!

From the first 13 home games gates are only down by 400 on two years ago when we were in League 1. In those first 13 matches 2 years ago we had hosted Bradford, Bristol Rovers, Blackpool, Posh, and Portsmouth, all clubs with a strong away support. In the first 13 games this season the only clubs you could say have had decent away support are Plymouth and maybe Walsall. The large away followings of those clubs in early 17/18, plus the fact that there would have been fans more inclined toattend those matches due to the more 'high profile' opposition, the fact that we had just appointed a 'high profile' manager in JFH and that we had also just received investment from overseas leading to a number of exciting new signings, would surely be the reason for the higher average than what we have seen so far this season.

Considering also that since two years ago we have suffered a RELEGATION and had only gained 7 points from the first 10 games of last season (leaving us sitting in the bottom 2), not to mention that over the last 3 windows have had to sell most (if not all) of our better players, then it stands to reason that gates would have fallen from the level they were at two years ago. This happens to ALL clubs.

We were also not in a 'lofty' position earlier in the season, so I don't see that this would have influenced attendances over August and September.

The football certainly isn't 'pretty' and yesterday was for the most part certainly a poor showing, but the belief that the style of football this season is significantly contributing to 'depressed' gates is pure conjecture.
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« Reply #34 on: January 02, 2020, 15:35:58 pm »

when making comparisons with previous year's attendances don't forget the following factors;

1. Many people (someone here will probably have a good rough and ready figure) purchase their season tickets well before the season starts and therefore are a captive audience the entire season and are counted in the attendance figures even if they don't turn up (apparently).

2. The delayed effect of poor football. People (I include myself in this category) are reluctant to give up their routine and loyalty (memories of better times etc) but once gone rarely return (or in my case only from time to time).

3. The on-going effect of a rip-roaring season of attacking, winning football probably ensures several more season's worth of season ticket sales.

4. Freebies - how many each season ?
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« Reply #35 on: January 02, 2020, 16:10:01 pm »

7th in the league and people want KC sacked?! Seriously starting to wonder whether some on here are Boro fans in disguise trying to wind people up and cause division.
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« Reply #36 on: January 02, 2020, 16:17:06 pm »

From the first 13 home games gates are only down by 400 on two years ago when we were in League 1. In those first 13 matches 2 years ago we had hosted Bradford, Bristol Rovers, Blackpool, Posh, and Portsmouth, all clubs with a strong away support. In the first 13 games this season the only clubs you could say have had decent away support are Plymouth and maybe Walsall. The large away followings of those clubs in early 17/18, plus the fact that there would have been fans more inclined toattend those matches due to the more 'high profile' opposition, the fact that we had just appointed a 'high profile' manager in JFH and that we had also just received investment from overseas leading to a number of exciting new signings, would surely be the reason for the higher average than what we have seen so far this season.

Considering also that since two years ago we have suffered a RELEGATION and had only gained 7 points from the first 10 games of last season (leaving us sitting in the bottom 2), not to mention that over the last 3 windows have had to sell most (if not all) of our better players, then it stands to reason that gates would have fallen from the level they were at two years ago. This happens to ALL clubs.

We were also not in a 'lofty' position earlier in the season, so I don't see that this would have influenced attendances over August and September.

The football certainly isn't 'pretty' and yesterday was for the most part certainly a poor showing, but the belief that the style of football this season is significantly contributing to 'depressed' gates is pure conjecture.
The poor standard of football affecting attendances this season is not conjecture as you say.
A selection of contributors to this site have already said they do not now attend because of the standard of football on offer . Add me to that number and three other people I go with . I refused to renew my season ticket after what was on offer last season and now go to only three quarters of the home games and a few away . I also know other people that just don’t bother because the entertainment is extremely low .
It did look like this was improving after the Sc***horpe game for a while but has reverted back to football you could teach a dog to play .
Someone I know on the coaching staff actually said to me that he doesn’t know why people pay to watch that because he wouldn’t .
I just hope KC reverts back to more interesting tactics when McCormack is fit again .
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« Reply #37 on: January 02, 2020, 16:21:33 pm »

From the first 13 home games gates are only down by 400 on two years ago when we were in League 1. In those first 13 matches 2 years ago we had hosted Bradford, Bristol Rovers, Blackpool, Posh, and Portsmouth, all clubs with a strong away support. In the first 13 games this season the only clubs you could say have had decent away support are Plymouth and maybe Walsall. The large away followings of those clubs in early 17/18, plus the fact that there would have been fans more inclined toattend those matches due to the more 'high profile' opposition, the fact that we had just appointed a 'high profile' manager in JFH and that we had also just received investment from overseas leading to a number of exciting new signings, would surely be the reason for the higher average than what we have seen so far this season.

Considering also that since two years ago we have suffered a RELEGATION and had only gained 7 points from the first 10 games of last season (leaving us sitting in the bottom 2), not to mention that over the last 3 windows have had to sell most (if not all) of our better players, then it stands to reason that gates would have fallen from the level they were at two years ago. This happens to ALL clubs.

We were also not in a 'lofty' position earlier in the season, so I don't see that this would have influenced attendances over August and September.

The football certainly isn't 'pretty' and yesterday was for the most part certainly a poor showing, but the belief that the style of football this season is significantly contributing to 'depressed' gates is pure conjecture.

I understand the general theme of your post and indeed can see why you think its "conjecture".....at the end of the day unless its fact there will always be differing ideas.

All I was trying to point out was that gates are down this season against last.....despite us being in a higher position. we've been up around the top 10 for a while now, but to only have 4361 home fans on New Years day is disappointing i'm sure you will agree.
You say about the fact we weren't always up the top end of the division yet earlier in the season we attracted 4888 against Crawley and over 4700 against Salford.
Last season we had back to back fixtures over Christmas, against arguably more attractive opposition and there were 4918 home fans v Swindon and 5514 v MK three days later, so I don't get the "moneys tight" analogy either as people will come out...as shown in those figures.
Last year 10432 home fans for the two games, this year 9084 for the two games.....that's nearly 13% fewer in total despite us being on the edge of a promotion race this season, last season we were in 14th place going into those games.

The average home fans figure for last season at this stage was 4594, and at the end of the season that had fallen to 4549. This season as it stands the average is 4532.

Maybe its just me.......if we were playing decent football and were 7th in the table I believe those figures would be nearer 5000. I'm not saying the results would be any better, just the performances on the pitch. You only have to look at some of the comments on here and on the FB groups to see that people are genuinely staying away because the "entertainment" on offer is negligible.

Granted, its conjecture......but I don't believe it to be baseless!
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« Reply #38 on: January 02, 2020, 16:27:21 pm »

I understand the general theme of your post and indeed can see why you think its "conjecture".....at the end of the day unless its fact there will always be differing ideas.

All I was trying to point out was that gates are down this season against last.....despite us being in a higher position. we've been up around the top 10 for a while now, but to only have 4361 home fans on New Years day is disappointing i'm sure you will agree.
You say about the fact we weren't always up the top end of the division yet earlier in the season we attracted 4888 against Crawley and over 4700 against Salford.
Last season we had back to back fixtures over Christmas, against arguably more attractive opposition and there were 4918 home fans v Swindon and 5514 v MK three days later, so I don't get the "moneys tight" analogy either as people will come out...as shown in those figures.
Last year 10432 home fans for the two games, this year 9084 for the two games.....that's nearly 13% fewer in total despite us being on the edge of a promotion race this season, last season we were in 14th place going into those games.

The average home fans figure for last season at this stage was 4594, and at the end of the season that had fallen to 4549. This season as it stands the average is 4532.

Maybe its just me.......if we were playing decent football and were 7th in the table I believe those figures would be nearer 5000. I'm not saying the results would be any better, just the performances on the pitch. You only have to look at some of the comments on here and on the FB groups to see that people are genuinely staying away because the "entertainment" on offer is negligible.

Granted, its conjecture.
.....but I don't believe it to be baseless!
Spot on and well put .
The wavering supporters that are non season ticket holders are in decline .
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« Reply #39 on: January 02, 2020, 16:44:45 pm »

The average attendance at this level has been around 4500 for years, barring the title winning season.
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