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Papering over the cracks

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EB Claret
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« Reply #40 on: January 02, 2020, 16:47:07 pm »

Papering over the cracks is what the majority of league 2 managers are doing every week, covering up the weaknesses of their team. It is rare that we can have results and performances at our level so we can't afford to be perfectionists. Given a choice of TV offerings of Premier League, Champions League or International Friendlies(yawn) or the current Cobblers side, I would rather be at Sixfields, because it's my team. So keep papering until we manage to fill some of the cracks properly, or, a new Bowen/Carr/Wilder walks through the door. UTC.
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« Reply #41 on: January 02, 2020, 17:21:00 pm »

I understand the general theme of your post and indeed can see why you think its "conjecture".....at the end of the day unless its fact there will always be differing ideas.

All I was trying to point out was that gates are down this season against last.....despite us being in a higher position. we've been up around the top 10 for a while now, but to only have 4361 home fans on New Years day is disappointing i'm sure you will agree.
You say about the fact we weren't always up the top end of the division yet earlier in the season we attracted 4888 against Crawley and over 4700 against Salford.
Last season we had back to back fixtures over Christmas, against arguably more attractive opposition and there were 4918 home fans v Swindon and 5514 v MK three days later, so I don't get the "moneys tight" analogy either as people will come out...as shown in those figures.
Last year 10432 home fans for the two games, this year 9084 for the two games.....that's nearly 13% fewer in total despite us being on the edge of a promotion race this season, last season we were in 14th place going into those games.

The average home fans figure for last season at this stage was 4594, and at the end of the season that had fallen to 4549. This season as it stands the average is 4532.

Maybe its just me.......if we were playing decent football and were 7th in the table I believe those figures would be nearer 5000. I'm not saying the results would be any better, just the performances on the pitch. You only have to look at some of the comments on here and on the FB groups to see that people are genuinely staying away because the "entertainment" on offer is negligible.

Granted, its conjecture......but I don't believe it to be baseless!


I did say 'significant' contribution, and so I guess it depends on what you class as 'significant'. I'm sure there are people who stay away because of their dislike of the style of play, but (only IMO of course) the number who do this is negligible and in no way 'significant'.

Interestingly, a comparison of the home attendances from this season and the Wilder promotion season at the same stage show that we are averaging higher now than then, which tends to contradict your theory:

15/16 4258 - First 12 home matches.
19/20 4532 - First 12 home matches.

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GrangeParkCobbler
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« Reply #42 on: January 02, 2020, 17:48:13 pm »


I did say 'significant' contribution, and so I guess it depends on what you class as 'significant'. I'm sure there are people who stay away because of their dislike of the style of play, but (only IMO of course) the number who do this is negligible and in no way 'significant'.

Interestingly, a comparison of the home attendances from this season and the Wilder promotion season at the same stage show that we are averaging higher now than then, which tends to contradict your theory:

15/16 4258 - First 12 home matches.
19/20 4532 - First 12 home matches.



Or does it....as gates rose from sub 4000 at the start of the season to over 5000 by Christmas........a winning team playing exciting football brought in 25% more fans?

5128 home fans v Accrington Stanley on 28th December and 4755 v Barnet on 2nd January...back to back home games that season too! 10% higher gates though.
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crazycobbler
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« Reply #43 on: January 02, 2020, 18:04:04 pm »

Or does it....as gates rose from sub 4000 at the start of the season to over 5000 by Christmas........a winning team playing exciting football brought in 25% more fans?

5128 home fans v Accrington Stanley on 28th December and 4755 v Barnet on 2nd January...back to back home games that season too! 10% higher gates though.

Style aside more people genuinely believed we could get promoted. You canít just put it down to style. If weíre sitting in 3rd with 10 games to go attendances will be more than what the average is now regardless of style. If people think we will go up, they will turn up and thatís whether youíre playing boring football or not.
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CobblerForever
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« Reply #44 on: January 02, 2020, 18:39:29 pm »

Haven't a proportion of the rules of the game been adjusted to create more exciting football i.e. the authorities have recognised a need/demand to make the game more attractive to watch to maximise revenues from the gate, television and sponsorship/advertising.

e.g. The Back Pass rule, Three points for a win, Penalties when a game is drawn at full time or after extra time.

Perhaps in future we'll go for an extra bonus point for scoring 3 or more goals in a match.
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« Reply #45 on: January 02, 2020, 18:53:18 pm »

The average attendance at this level has been around 4500 for years, barring the title winning season.
Our average attendance is over 5000, are you a boro fan trying to cause trouble?
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« Reply #46 on: January 02, 2020, 19:08:44 pm »

Style aside more people genuinely believed we could get promoted. You canít just put it down to style. If weíre sitting in 3rd with 10 games to go attendances will be more than what the average is now regardless of style. If people think we will go up, they will turn up and thatís whether youíre playing boring football or not.

??

How did they know so early in the season?

These were the gates between the start and the New Year....

2015/16 version......
Aug - Blackpool          -  2244 - Tue (C/C)
Aug - The Grecians     - 3997 - Sat
Aug - Plymouth          - 3795 - Sat
Sep - Col U                - 1255 - Tue (Paint Pot)
Sep - Daggers            - 3911 - Sat
Sep - Oxford              - 3907 - Sat
Sep - Orient               - 4261 - Sat
Oct - Hartlepool          - 4273 - Sat
Oct - Carlisle              - 3388 - Tue  (Lowest home league crowd since 23rd October 2012)
Oct - Stevenage         - 4158 - Sat
Nov - Mansfield          - 4562 - Sat
Nov - Yeovil               - 4790 - Sat
Dec - Northwich Vics   - 3478 - Sat (FA Cup)
Dec - Portsmouth       - 4931 - Sat
Dec - Stanley             - 5128 - Mon (Largest home crowd since May 2014)
Jan - Barnet               - 4755 - Sat

You see how they rose from sub 4000 for the first four games of the season to high 4000's and over 5000 by Christmas. The same has not happened this season, in fact you could say the gates have dropped.
The gate on the 29th was only the 5th highest of the 13 games this season, and the gate on New Years Day was 10th out of the 13 games.

A couple of weeks ago people were saying that the gate against Forest Green was low, and they put that down to Xmas shopping, the week before Xmas etc, but there were more Cobblers fans at that game than there were on New Years Day..........
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« Reply #47 on: January 02, 2020, 19:24:45 pm »

Or does it....as gates rose from sub 4000 at the start of the season to over 5000 by Christmas........a winning team playing exciting football brought in 25% more fans?

5128 home fans v Accrington Stanley on 28th December and 4755 v Barnet on 2nd January...back to back home games that season too! 10% higher gates though.

I think the key word in your reply is 'winning'. Cobblers were in the top 3 come those Christmas games and had been in and out of the automatic places for a couple of months before that. Before yesterday we were 9th in the table. If the team was sat in the top 3 then I agree with crazycobbler that the attendances would be much higher than they are now and the style of football for 99% of the fans wouldn't matter one bit.

For the home game following the January 2nd game against Barnet in 15/16, we hosted Morecambe. The home fan attendance for that game was 4556. That's only 195 more than attended yesterdays game! Before that Morecambe match the team were in 2nd place and only being kept off the top due to negligibly inferior goal difference, but had a game in hand - they had also won 11 of their last 13 matches! After the game they were top, 11 points clear of third, and had a game in hand on the teams in 2nd and 4th.

If the team was in top spot having got 11 1-0 wins in 13 games, while doing nothing but hoofing it up field and hoping for a lucky deflected goal, then the attendances wouldn't be dissimilar to those in 15/16 IMO.
 
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ClarenceInDefence
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« Reply #48 on: January 02, 2020, 19:33:43 pm »

??

How did they know so early in the season?

These were the gates between the start and the New Year....

2015/16 version......
Aug - Blackpool          -  2244 - Tue (C/C)
Aug - The Grecians     - 3997 - Sat
Aug - Plymouth          - 3795 - Sat
Sep - Col U                - 1255 - Tue (Paint Pot)
Sep - Daggers            - 3911 - Sat
Sep - Oxford              - 3907 - Sat
Sep - Orient               - 4261 - Sat
Oct - Hartlepool          - 4273 - Sat
Oct - Carlisle              - 3388 - Tue  (Lowest home league crowd since 23rd October 2012)
Oct - Stevenage         - 4158 - Sat
Nov - Mansfield          - 4562 - Sat
Nov - Yeovil               - 4790 - Sat
Dec - Northwich Vics   - 3478 - Sat (FA Cup)
Dec - Portsmouth       - 4931 - Sat
Dec - Stanley             - 5128 - Mon (Largest home crowd since May 2014)
Jan - Barnet               - 4755 - Sat

You see how they rose from sub 4000 for the first four games of the season to high 4000's and over 5000 by Christmas. The same has not happened this season, in fact you could say the gates have dropped.
The gate on the 29th was only the 5th highest of the 13 games this season, and the gate on New Years Day was 10th out of the 13 games.

A couple of weeks ago people were saying that the gate against Forest Green was low, and they put that down to Xmas shopping, the week before Xmas etc, but there were more Cobblers fans at that game than there were on New Years Day..........

The Yeovil match wasn't early in the season, it was played on the 28th November. We were 3rd in the table at that point, and were on a run of 9 wins and only 1 loss in the previous 13 games:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/34887336

It was also only goal difference keeping us off top after the match as well and you can already see a gap beginning to open up. It was obvious the team had a very good chance of going up by then.
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« Reply #49 on: January 02, 2020, 19:50:54 pm »

Our average attendance is over 5000, are you a boro fan trying to cause trouble?

Home fan attendance...keep up.  Cool
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« Reply #50 on: January 02, 2020, 20:21:36 pm »

The Yeovil match wasn't early in the season, it was played on the 28th November. We were 3rd in the table at that point, and were on a run of 9 wins and only 1 loss in the previous 13 games:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/34887336

It was also only goal difference keeping us off top after the match as well and you can already see a gap beginning to open up. It was obvious the team had a very good chance of going up by then.


Exactly this.
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« Reply #51 on: January 02, 2020, 20:23:42 pm »

Oh well, we have gone well off topic with this are are using stats how we see fit.
I think thereís an issue, you obviously donít!
I think thereís an issue because from a personal point of view myself and my three children have gone from season ticket holders last season to not attending home games this season.
It wasnít enjoyable last season and from what some people say itís even worse this. Hey ho!
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« Reply #52 on: January 02, 2020, 20:55:16 pm »

If we are talking from personal points of view, I haven't been to any Cobblers games over the Christmas/NY period, though this has far less to do with style of play issues, rather more, financial, difficulty of getting to games on Boxing Day and NY's day (in Weymouth for Cheltenham) as well as the opposition hardly stoking the fires!

Do largely agree with Crazy Cobbler, being top of the league counts over fancy footie for most I'd wager.
I'll be at Burton...and happy to win at any cost - within reason!   Wink
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ClarenceInDefence
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« Reply #53 on: January 02, 2020, 21:14:47 pm »

Oh well, we have gone well off topic with this are are using stats how we see fit.
I think thereís an issue, you obviously donít!
I think thereís an issue because from a personal point of view myself and my three children have gone from season ticket holders last season to not attending home games this season.
It wasnít enjoyable last season and from what some people say itís even worse this. Hey ho!

Your attendance stats at best fail to back up your point, if not outright contradict it, I'm not presenting them 'how I see fit' at all.

I'm not disagreeing with you on the style of football or trying to argue that it's not 'unattractive', or blame you for it diminishing your interest in attending, I just don't think there's any evidence which suggest's that it's having any appreciable negative effects on gates. The attendance stats bear this out.

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« Reply #54 on: January 02, 2020, 21:38:15 pm »

Home fan attendance...keep up.  Cool
Thatís not what is typed though  Grin
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« Reply #55 on: January 02, 2020, 21:38:51 pm »

As I have said before, a win is a win. Results wise we are doing ok. Entertainment wise, not so good. Weíve been here hundreds of times before. Weíve even won leagues like it.

But there are a few who would happily stir up a hornets nest. Most of them are either sporadic attenders, or non attenders, probably trying more or less to justify their stance.

I donít care how long you want to bang on about being loyal for. Or why you canít attend. Just go in in peace. Leave those that want to attend, and donít necessarily share your perspective to get on with backing the lads and supporting the team. If you canít afford it, then fine. If youíre ill, then fine. If distance makes it difficult, then fine. There all all sorts of genuine reasons to not attend. But if you just canít be bothered, youíre no longer a Cobblers supporter.. Simple as to me. I donít want your sob story.

As with all things, there will always be a few people who canít just clear off once they are no use, other than to spread negativity. Curle is doing the best with what he has. He won't be here forever. None of it might be here one day. Iím going to keep making the best of it, and the good company I share it with, for as long as I can.
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« Reply #56 on: January 02, 2020, 22:07:49 pm »

As I have said before, a win is a win. Results wise we are doing ok. Entertainment wise, not so good. Weíve been here hundreds of times before. Weíve even won leagues like it.

But there are a few who would happily stir up a hornets nest. Most of them are either sporadic attenders, or non attenders, probably trying more or less to justify their stance.

I donít care how long you want to bang on about being loyal for. Or why you canít attend. Just go in in peace. Leave those that want to attend, and donít necessarily share your perspective to get on with backing the lads and supporting the team. If you canít afford it, then fine. If youíre ill, then fine. If distance makes it difficult, then fine. There all all sorts of genuine reasons to not attend. But if you just canít be bothered, youíre no longer a Cobblers supporter.. Simple as to me. I donít want your sob story.

As with all things, there will always be a few people who canít just clear off once they are no use, other than to spread negativity. Curle is doing the best with what he has. He won't be here forever. None of it might be here one day. Iím going to keep making the best of it, and the good company I share it with, for as long as I can.

Good post. I attend to see the team win first and foremost. If I get entertained in the process it's an added bonus.
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« Reply #57 on: January 02, 2020, 22:16:18 pm »

Good post. I attend to see the team win first and foremost. If I get entertained in the process it's an added bonus.

Spot On.
I am a bit puzzled by those who wont attend Home games because of the lack of entertainment, even when the team is winning. But will pay out to travel fighting the traffic and weather to watch that display at Crawley, that was enjoyable was it?
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« Reply #58 on: January 02, 2020, 22:32:06 pm »

As I have said before, a win is a win. Results wise we are doing ok. Entertainment wise, not so good. Weíve been here hundreds of times before. Weíve even won leagues like it.

But there are a few who would happily stir up a hornets nest. Most of them are either sporadic attenders, or non attenders, probably trying more or less to justify their stance.

I donít care how long you want to bang on about being loyal for. Or why you canít attend. Just go in in peace. Leave those that want to attend, and donít necessarily share your perspective to get on with backing the lads and supporting the team. If you canít afford it, then fine. If youíre ill, then fine. If distance makes it difficult, then fine. There all all sorts of genuine reasons to not attend. But if you just canít be bothered, youíre no longer a Cobblers supporter.. Simple as to me. I donít want your sob story.

As with all things, there will always be a few people who canít just clear off once they are no use, other than to spread negativity. Curle is doing the best with what he has. He won't be here forever. None of it might be here one day. Iím going to keep making the best of it, and the good company I share it with, for as long as I can.

This.
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« Reply #59 on: January 02, 2020, 23:13:25 pm »

The resident board Policeman has spoken....conversation ended.
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