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Walsall away 15.02.20 #selloutthebescot

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« Reply #300 on: February 17, 2020, 08:58:07 am »

https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/sport/football/curle-feels-his-players-have-got-carried-away-themselves-after-fa-cup-run-1742615

There you go, its the players fault for thinking they're better than they are according to Curle…...

It's funny, isn't it? Usually managers are pleased when they have forged a team in their own image, whose play is a manifestation of their leader's personality.

Keith doesn't seem to like it when his team take after him though, does he?
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« Reply #301 on: February 17, 2020, 09:53:19 am »

McCormack has appeared in 14 games this season...the record with him in the team, won 7 drawn 2 lost 5.

You’d think this bloke was the messiah, not a bit part ageing player with serious fitness problems.
Well, the stats do paint a different picture GPC. However, despite this I still believe McCormack is exactly what we need on the pitch. He seems to bring that dynamic of steely determination and character that we need when we are on the back foot. Although I confess you have introduced an element of doubt into the reasoning?
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« Reply #302 on: February 17, 2020, 09:59:05 am »

Nobody except Cornell will know what his view was of the ball. In that position, if players run in front of you, it boils down to milliseconds to make a decision and get it right. Cornell is a decent keeper at this level, but not infallible. I have seen very similar happen to keepers at all levels.

   

For example, on Saturday Walsall's keeper was beaten on his near post for our first goal and failed to come out for Anderson's cross for our second. Shocking Goalkeeping! not that we cared at the time.
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« Reply #303 on: February 17, 2020, 10:26:00 am »

Cornell has improved massively this season, unfortunately he’s still not very good  Grin
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« Reply #304 on: February 17, 2020, 10:30:25 am »

Well, the stats do paint a different picture GPC. However, despite this I still believe McCormack is exactly what we need on the pitch. He seems to bring that dynamic of steely determination and character that we need when we are on the back foot. Although I confess you have introduced an element of doubt into the reasoning?

I've seen him a few times this season, and sometimes he does stand out...his range of passing, his control and composure are a cut above some of the others on the pitch. However, his last game was at Crawley where he went off after 50 odd minutes, he was poor that day.

On his day he's decent enough, but his days are not frequent enough! The other problem we have is that its ok having one clever player in your team, but if the others are not quick enough, do not read his passes and flicks, do not make the right runs, then you might as well not bother. Remember the days of Gabbiadini, and later Martin Smith, both very good players, but both at times looked lost in a team of fourth division cloggers.
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« Reply #305 on: February 17, 2020, 10:31:07 am »

Cornell to blame? Maybe. Is he coached to stay on his line and leave crosses to the defence?
Goode to blame? Possibly, he let the ball go from the free kick (shout from Cornell?) If he had stayed on his feet the winner (miss hit) would have hit him instead of going in.
Pointless argument, if we as a team had kept the ball better 2nd half it would have relieved the pressure on our goal. We asked for trouble and we got it!

There was not one player to blame for the defeat, the defence, keeper, team as a whole and Curle were all responsible for the last 30 minutes on Saturday.

Still 13 games to go and everything to play for, the team will bounce back from this.
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« Reply #306 on: February 17, 2020, 10:31:40 am »

https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/sport/football/curle-feels-his-players-have-got-carried-away-themselves-after-fa-cup-run-1742615

There you go, its the players fault for thinking they're better than they are according to Curle…...
Curle at his toe curling best...........mid table again bye bye Curle.
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« Reply #307 on: February 17, 2020, 10:39:34 am »

Curle at his toe curling best...........mid table again bye bye Curle.

His comments about the players and in particular the defending are probably correct (although I'm not sure its the sign of a good man manager to be so public about them) - what really disappoints me is absolutely no recognition of his shocking "tactical" substitution - forget the result but just a hint of humility would reflect so much better on him. 
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« Reply #308 on: February 17, 2020, 10:51:26 am »

His comments about the players and in particular the defending are probably correct (although I'm not sure its the sign of a good man manager to be so public about them) - what really disappoints me is absolutely no recognition of his shocking "tactical" substitution - forget the result but just a hint of humility would reflect so much better on him. 
The guy is delusional, he’s been in management a long time, in fact this will be the 18th season without ONE promotion to his name, along with throwing away a two goal lead on FOUR separate occasions this is NO coincidence.
His style of football is from the 80s and simply terrible to watch even when we are winning.
When we don’t win it’s simply unacceptable.
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« Reply #309 on: February 17, 2020, 11:08:08 am »

If Cornell is 'still not very good' why have Ipswich, PNE, Reading and Blackburn all been rumoured to have on their radar this season? Do their scouts know less about football than the so called experts on here. He has improved considerably this season but I would prefer him to come off his line more to collect crosses and command his area. However, we do not know if he stays on his line by choice or if he is instructed to.
Regarding the substitution of Morton KC thought that by bringing Oliver on we were more likely to retain the ball higher up the pitch which we were not doing. Morton is not the type of player to hold and shield the ball untill another player can be found.
The defending has rightly come in for criticism but I see nobody criticising the missed chances we had, in both halves, which would have put the game to bed.
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« Reply #310 on: February 17, 2020, 11:08:40 am »

Having followed the comments on this thread over the weekend these are my thoughts.

I don’t believe KC is solely to blame for the defeat on Saturday. Yes, he may be telling them to drop deeper which of course invites pressure and for that he must be partially responsible. However, the players have got to look at themselves a little bit. We can sit here and talk about tactics and substitutions all we want but what about just some good old-fashioned fight? I didn’t see much of it in the second half and KC is not solely to blame for that. When Walsall pulled a goal back, how many of those players gave the impression that their mindset was ‘over my dead body are we throwing this away’. The momentum of the game had turned before any subs were made and from what I saw from the players, there was not enough fight to halt that momentum. We were so comfortable in the first half then second half all of a sudden people misplacing passes, defenders are getting out muscled, people aren’t holding up the ball properly. You can’t blame KC for that.

We are all quick to come on here and rave about how good a player is when he puts in a top performance, but whenever we lose a lead, its always KC’s fault. I do not buy into such nonsense. There are 11 men out on that field who all have a job to do. Far too many of that 11 did not carry out that job to a good enough standard in the second half. Walsall didn’t out-tactic us in the second half, they out-ran and out-fought us.

On the wider subject of KC’s position, KT has made some questionable decisions during his time as Chairman but sacking Curle with us just outside the playoffs with 13 games to go would probably be the worst of the lot. I’m confused as to why some people genuinely believe that someone could just swan in, pick up KC’s squad and immediately start picking up wins with ease. I have said from day one that the style of football isn’t always an easy watch. But having taken charge when we near rock-bottom 18 months ago to assembling what we all seem to agree is a pretty good squad, he deserves the chance to at least see the season out. If we tail off and end up 10th/11th then of course KT has a big decision to make, but at this moment in time it would be extremely harsh and incredibly foolish to sack him.
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« Reply #311 on: February 17, 2020, 11:31:38 am »

The point is
Route one doesn’t work and we rarely score from a punt down the pitch .
Long throws are useless and haven’t created a single goal .
We look much better playing through the midfield .
We play the worst football in the entire league I suspect
Think on .
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« Reply #312 on: February 17, 2020, 11:36:36 am »

We are all quick to come on here and rave about how good a player is when he puts in a top performance, but whenever we lose a lead, its always KC’s fault. I do not buy into such nonsense. There are 11 men out on that field who all have a job to do. Far too many of that 11 did not carry out that job to a good enough standard in the second half.
Well said. This quote from Ryan Watson is very telling: "I'm not sure if we just didn't get going or what." (referring to the second half)

Well why bloody not? We were absolutely desperate to pick up 3 points after two losses in a row, to keep us right in the thick of things promotion wise, and had just won a first half away from home 2-0 putting us in a very strong position to do just that. I don't see any excuse for coming out that tunnel after HT with a half arsed attitude thinking the game is won when there's already precedent for us throwing away 2 goal leads at Sixfields even, let alone away from home. We should have been absolutely fired up by the thought of closing the gap on our promotion rivals and seeing Morton make the immediate impact that he has, taking the pressure off our less in-form strikers.

It's just a sickening quote from Watson, IMO. If the idea of being promoted with a team can't motivate some of these players to give a wholehearted performance across 90+ minutes then I don't know what will. And I think part of the reason why McCormack is mentioned so much around here is that you can see with him in every situation just how committed and focussed he is at all times. If we had a whole team with that mentality then it'd be a different story.
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« Reply #313 on: February 17, 2020, 11:45:11 am »

I've seen him a few times this season, and sometimes he does stand out...his range of passing, his control and composure are a cut above some of the others on the pitch. However, his last game was at Crawley where he went off after 50 odd minutes, he was poor that day.

On his day he's decent enough, but his days are not frequent enough! The other problem we have is that its ok having one clever player in your team, but if the others are not quick enough, do not read his passes and flicks, do not make the right runs, then you might as well not bother. Remember the days of Gabbiadini, and later Martin Smith, both very good players, but both at times looked lost in a team of fourth division cloggers.
Do you not think they were both different types of players? I would point to Ian Taylor. Absolutely head and shoulders above anyone else in that side in terms of quality. Yet because of the type of player he was he raised the entire performance of the team? If it wasn’t for those stats you dug up Id be totally convinced I’m right?
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« Reply #314 on: February 17, 2020, 11:45:48 am »

I've said in the past that we play poor quality football very well. While that isn't good to watch 90% of the time, you suck it up and enjoy the results while they are coming in. When the results dry up, I think it's pretty inevitable an already dissatisfied crowd will turn quicker than they might if you had been playing sumptuous football and losing.

I guess the question is why we've started losing...
Tiredness? I don't really buy that.
FA Cup hangover? Maybe.
Has our luck run out? Hardly scientific, but you can't deny that we've had a lot of good fortune in some of our wins - how many gilt-edged chances have been missed in the last few months that we've got away with?
Or have we just been found out? When you are as one-dimensional as we are, if one team finds a way to cancel out our threat then the same tactic will probably work for everyone if they employ it too.

The chances are it's a combination of all of the above. I don't see the point in getting rid of Curle now though; it'll cost to get rid of him, we aren't going down and there's an outside chance we can still go up (although my personal opinion is that we're going to continue to drop away, as much as I'll be happy to be proven wrong on that front!)

Whatever happens though, I really won't be sorry if, come the end of the season, KT shakes Curle's hand and says "thanks for everything you've done and cheerio".
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« Reply #315 on: February 17, 2020, 11:46:35 am »

Regarding the substitution of Morton KC thought that by bringing Oliver on we were more likely to retain the ball higher up the pitch which we were not doing. Morton is not the type of player to hold and shield the ball untill another player can be found.

Completely agree on your assessment of Morton - but in previous games KC has ignored that point and played him as a target man (where he barely won a single high ball) - however on Saturday up to that point we were actually playing to his strength - i.e. playing the ball on the ground from wide positions rather than the pump up the middle. The substitution changed the game for the worse and even if he felt Morton should come off (injured, missed chances or just knackered) surely replace with a player that could run at their defence (like Marshall) given how entertainingly effective it was for the first half.
Of course we are all tactical geniuses on here but I still maintain KC got it badly wrong on Saturday and along with rubbish defending made a significant contribution to a very disappointing result - I would simply like him to hold his hand up for once rather than blame everyone else.
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« Reply #316 on: February 17, 2020, 11:53:50 am »

Do you not think they were both different types of players? I would point to Ian Taylor. Absolutely head and shoulders above anyone else in that side in terms of quality. Yet because of the type of player he was he raised the entire performance of the team? If it wasn’t for those stats you dug up Id be totally convinced I’m right?

Yes, different type of players completely, and I take your point with Taylor, he was a motivator and wasn't shy to let those around him have a piece of his mind if they weren't doing their jobs. We have nobody in our side that does that, i'm not sure whether McCormack fits into that mould either...he's not been on the pitch long enough to form an opinion. The danger when/if he does come back is that EVERYTHING starts to go through him and the other 10 players look to him to as the go to man in every situation. He can't do everything by himself, and it does come across that many think he's the answer to all our problems.

My stats just pointed out that it ain't necessarily that simple.
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« Reply #317 on: February 17, 2020, 12:20:44 pm »

I wish KC would address his substitutions and review their combined impact.....I suspect half the away support thought the minute the subs were made ....here we go again bUggering up a team and as for Warburton , "what does he see in him " , Imo he is non league and incapable of making the step up, a regular run in the team would just compound our problems.....and Oliver seems like he needs a rest, plus Harriman on for Ando is yet another negative move.

I was truly p1ssed off on Saturday and all the more because, no hindsight, it was a bang on certainty that we would toss away the Walsall game, yet again,also galling is the repetitive late goal!


Something has gone wrong ....is it the cup distraction, too many games, the loss of Kelly, the unsettling loan players,the baffling substitutions.......... KC will never admit it might just be him.....I would hate to be a player under him. Put in a star performance and you will be dropped.

Obviously the next 2 games are crucial ....lose them and the fans will be screaming after blood.

Finally the support , there in numbers again was unusually quiet.   Why Huh?
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« Reply #318 on: February 17, 2020, 12:23:33 pm »

The guy is delusional, he’s been in management a long time, in fact this will be the 18th season without ONE promotion to his name, along with throwing away a two goal lead on FOUR separate occasions this is NO coincidence.
His style of football is from the 80s and simply terrible to watch even when we are winning.
When we don’t win it’s simply unacceptable.

Here we go again with the '18 seasons without a promotion'. It's not true though is it? Because he has not been a manager for all of those seasons.

His first job was as player-manager of Mansfield in 2002, where he got them into the play-offs. He was sacked in his second full season (in 2004) over a bullying allegation, nothing to do with results.

His next job was at Chester in the 2005 and he was sacked during February 2006. This is the first job where he was appointed before the start of the season and had the summer to recruit, which ended in his sacking due to a poor run of results.

His next job was at Torquay where he took over in the February of 2007 when they were adrift at the bottom of League 2 with 15 games remaining. He didn't manage to turn their fortunes around and his contract wasn't renewed after they were relegated to the Conference.

He then was on the coaching staff at Crystal Palace and Q.P.R. under Neil Warnock for the best part of 5 years, so not in management.

His next job was in 2012 with Notts County, taking over in the February and being sacked during the February in 2012. This was (and so far is) only the second season where he had had a summer to recruit which ended in his sacking due to results/league position. They were mid-table when Curle was sacked, but it's worth pointing out that this was in League 1.

His next job was at Carlisle in 2014, where he stayed for 4 seasons, where he had 3 successive summers to recruit and build a team and he left at the end of his contract in 2018 after they had finished just outside the play-offs.

All in he's been in management for 10 years, of which there have been only 8 where he has had a summer to recruit and build a team to challenge, including this one. He was sacked during one of those over a bullying allegation, leaving 6 previous seasons when he has had the chance to recruit and build a team for promotion which ended with his sacking after he had failed to achieve that. That's before considering whether promotion was a realistic aim for any of the clubs during those 6 seasons in the first place.

We were in the bottom 2 when he took over 18 months ago and in that time he has comfortably kept us up, rebuilt the team over one summer on a reduced budget, took us to the 5th round of the cup (earning the club a great deal of prize money as a result) and has us as strong contenders for a play-off place.

The football may not be 'pretty' but all things considered, the way some are going after Curle is beyond a joke.



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« Reply #319 on: February 17, 2020, 12:27:30 pm »

If Cornell is 'still not very good' why have Ipswich, PNE, Reading and Blackburn all been rumoured to have on their radar this season? Do their scouts know less about football than the so called experts on here. He has improved considerably this season but I would prefer him to come off his line more to collect crosses and command his area. However, we do not know if he stays on his line by choice or if he is instructed to.
Regarding the substitution of Morton KC thought that by bringing Oliver on we were more likely to retain the ball higher up the pitch which we were not doing. Morton is not the type of player to hold and shield the ball untill another player can be found.
The defending has rightly come in for criticism but I see nobody criticising the missed chances we had, in both halves, which would have put the game to bed.

The answer to your question here can be found in the word 'rumoured'.
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