Walsall away 15.02.20 #selloutthebescot

[ClarenceInDefence]

McCormack has appeared in 14 games this season...the record with him in the team, won 7 drawn 2 lost 5.

You’d think this bloke was the messiah, not a bit part ageing player with serious fitness problems.

Two of the losses were his first games back from injury and he wasn't match sharp, one of which was a late sub appearance when we were already losing. Another was Crawley away and he went off injured with 30+ minutes to play and before the 2nd, 3rd and 4th goals were scored.

Having said that, I agree that he isn't the 'messiah' and the team have proved they can win games without him, but IF we can get him starting the last 10 matches plus the play-offs - if we make it - it will be a massive boost no doubt.

[guest2995]

Here we go again with the '18 seasons without a promotion'. It's not true though is it? Because he has not been a manager for all of those seasons.

His first job was as player-manager of Mansfield in 2002, where he got them into the play-offs. He was sacked in his second full season (in 2004) over a bullying allegation, nothing to do with results.

His next job was at Chester in the 2005 and he was sacked during February 2006. This is the first job where he was appointed before the start of the season and had the summer to recruit, which ended in his sacking due to a poor run of results.

His next job was at Torquay where he took over in the February of 2007 when they were adrift at the bottom of League 2 with 15 games remaining. He didn't manage to turn their fortunes around and his contract wasn't renewed after they were relegated to the Conference.

He then was on the coaching staff at Crystal Palace and Q.P.R. under Neil Warnock for the best part of 5 years, so not in management.

His next job was in 2012 with Notts County, taking over in the February and being sacked during the February in 2012. This was (and so far is) only the second season where he had had a summer to recruit which ended in his sacking due to results/league position. They were mid-table when Curle was sacked, but it's worth pointing out that this was in League 1.

His next job was at Carlisle in 2014, where he stayed for 4 seasons, where he had 3 successive summers to recruit and build a team and he left at the end of his contract in 2018 after they had finished just outside the play-offs.

All in he's been in management for 10 years, of which there have been only 8 where he has had a summer to recruit and build a team to challenge, including this one. He was sacked during one of those over a bullying allegation, leaving 6 previous seasons when he has had the chance to recruit and build a team for promotion which ended with his sacking after he had failed to achieve that. That's before considering whether promotion was a realistic aim for any of the clubs during those 6 seasons in the first place.

We were in the bottom 2 when he took over 18 months ago and in that time he has comfortably kept us up, rebuilt the team over one summer on a reduced budget, took us to the 5th round of the cup (earning the club a great deal of prize money as a result) and has us as strong contenders for a play-off place.

The football may not be 'pretty' but all things considered, the way some are going after Curle is beyond a joke.

Blah blah blah
Excuses and windbagging .
The football is appalling .
Drab , boring , soul gnawing rubbish .

[crazycobbler]

I wish KC would address his substitutions and review their combined impact.....I suspect half the away support thought the minute the subs were made ....here we go again bUggering up a team and as for Warburton , "what does he see in him " , Imo he is non league and incapable of making the step up, a regular run in the team would just compound our problems.....and Oliver seems like he needs a rest, plus Harriman on for Ando is yet another negative move.

I was truly p1ssed off on Saturday and all the more because, no hindsight, it was a bang on certainty that we would toss away the Walsall game, yet again,also galling is the repetitive late goal!


Something has gone wrong ....is it the cup distraction, too many games, the loss of Kelly, the unsettling loan players,the baffling substitutions.......... KC will never admit it might just be him.....I would hate to be a player under him. Put in a star performance and you will be dropped.

Obviously the next 2 games are crucial ....lose them and the fans will be screaming after blood.

Finally the support , there in numbers again was unusually quiet.   Why

This isn't true though is it. Goode, Turnbull, Hoskins, Wharton and Adams have all been good this season and they have all kept their place in the team because of it. When Oliver was playing well he kept his place in the team. This idea that if you have a good game you'll be dropped is a slight exaggeration.

[Manwork04]

Here we go again with the '18 seasons without a promotion'. It's not true though is it? Because he has not been a manager for all of those seasons.

His first job was as player-manager of Mansfield in 2002, where he got them into the play-offs. He was sacked in his second full season (in 2004) over a bullying allegation, nothing to do with results.

His next job was at Chester in the 2005 and he was sacked during February 2006. This is the first job where he was appointed before the start of the season and had the summer to recruit, which ended in his sacking due to a poor run of results.

His next job was at Torquay where he took over in the February of 2007 when they were adrift at the bottom of League 2 with 15 games remaining. He didn't manage to turn their fortunes around and his contract wasn't renewed after they were relegated to the Conference.

He then was on the coaching staff at Crystal Palace and Q.P.R. under Neil Warnock for the best part of 5 years, so not in management.

His next job was in 2012 with Notts County, taking over in the February and being sacked during the February in 2012. This was (and so far is) only the second season where he had had a summer to recruit which ended in his sacking due to results/league position. They were mid-table when Curle was sacked, but it's worth pointing out that this was in League 1.

His next job was at Carlisle in 2014, where he stayed for 4 seasons, where he had 3 successive summers to recruit and build a team and he left at the end of his contract in 2018 after they had finished just outside the play-offs.

All in he's been in management for 10 years, of which there have been only 8 where he has had a summer to recruit and build a team to challenge, including this one. He was sacked during one of those over a bullying allegation, leaving 6 previous seasons when he has had the chance to recruit and build a team for promotion which ended with his sacking after he had failed to achieve that. That's before considering whether promotion was a realistic aim for any of the clubs during those 6 seasons in the first place.

We were in the bottom 2 when he took over 18 months ago and in that time he has comfortably kept us up, rebuilt the team over one summer on a reduced budget, took us to the 5th round of the cup (earning the club a great deal of prize money as a result) and has us as strong contenders for a play-off place.

The football may not be 'pretty' but all things considered, the way some are going after Curle is beyond a joke.

You’re quite right, I’ve missed vital information from Curles management CV, he’s been relegated but never promoted.
Terrible hoof ball tactics and constant tinkering it’s no wonder he’s never been promoted as a player/coach, manager or first team coach in 18 long years. FACT

[crazycobbler]

It’s ironic how some of the people who blamed the players under Austin and said he should be given more time even though we were near rock bottom are the same people who think Curle should be sacked after getting us right in the playoff hunt with 13 games to go. Astonishing.

[Another Pedj]

Curle at his toe curling best...........mid table again bye bye Curle.

Which Xmas?

[guest1269]

Not sure why people have to be so polarised in their views but it seems the trend now, not to see the other persons point of view even if ultimately you disagree.

Taking out the more extreme views I think the general consensus is this -

No one overly delighted with the appointment.
Overall result wise points tally is a significant improvement over previous two seasons.
Generally better togetherness of the players.
Football not entertaining
Same old cliches when things don't work out
Some strange tactics and substitutions
Play offs still easily within sight but automatic looking increasingly unlikely
Failure to at least reach playoffs would represent a poor season
Sacking him now would be ridiculous but renewing/extending contract if play offs not reached would not show much ambition to either succeed or entertain and gates would definitely suffer.

[Another Pedj]

The point is
Route one doesn’t work and we rarely score from a punt down the pitch .
Long throws are useless and haven’t created a single goal .
We look much better playing through the midfield .
We play the worst football in the entire league I suspect
Think on .

Agreed I havent seen any goals created from our long throws. Certainly the oppostition have created numerous chances from them.

[ClarenceInDefence]

Not sure why people have to be so polarised in their views but it seems the trend now, not to see the other persons point of view even if ultimately you disagree.

Taking out the more extreme views I think the general consensus is this -

No one overly delighted with the appointment.
Overall result wise points tally is a significant improvement over previous two seasons.
Generally better togetherness of the players.
Football not entertaining
Same old cliches when things don't work out
Some strange tactics and substitutions
Play offs still easily within sight but automatic looking increasingly unlikely
Failure to at least reach playoffs would represent a poor season
Sacking him now would be ridiculous but renewing/extending contract if play offs not reached would not show much ambition to either succeed or entertain and gates would definitely suffer.

This is pretty close to my stance, I would only say that reaching the play-offs would be a good season and that Curle will have slightly over-achieved if he manages to get us promoted. If we miss out on the top 7 and his contract wasn't renewed then so be it. However, I think some people will be disappointed, because unless we go into free-fall I expect us to finish anywhere between 5th and 8th and I think an 8th place finish would still see a contract renewal.

[the grumpy old man]

This isn't true though is it. Goode, Turnbull, Hoskins, Wharton and Adams have all been good this season and they have all kept their place in the team because of it. When Oliver was playing well he kept his place in the team. This idea that if you have a good game you'll be dropped is a slight exaggeration.

He dropped Marshall after two MOM performances in his last two games, the Port Vale one from the sponsors and the Swindon one from the Chronic. Not sure what he did to deserve that and so far he hasn't explained why.

[ClarenceInDefence]

Blah blah blah
Excuses and windbagging .
The football is appalling .
Drab , boring , soul gnawing rubbish .

'Blah blah blah', yes, me and my pesky facts and rational analysis! People keep rolling out the 'no promotions in 18 years', but this is 'fact' is clearly a fallacy.

As to excuses, I'm not making 'excuses' simply stating facts, and why would Curle need 'excuses' anyway? Was automatic promotion the 'expectation' this season? No. Curle's performance this season is on par at worst. Reaching the 5th round of the cup and sitting outside the play-offs by 1 point and only 2 points off 5th, with a game in hand on 3 of the teams above us, after rebuilding the squad on a massively reduced budget? Please explain to me how Curle needs any 'excuses' how this season has gone so far.

In any case, before the season started and over the first couple of months, you were confident we'd have a worse season than last in terms of points total and place in the table.

Well, NEWS-FLASH: You were wrong!

You don't enjoy the football, we get it! It's not the kind of football I'd like to see played either, but at the moment we're challenging for promotion and there's still everything to play for.

[guest3063]

17 pages   when we win it's about 5 max.

[ClarenceInDefence]

He dropped Marshall after two MOM performances in his last two games, the Port Vale one from the sponsors and the Swindon one from the Chronic. Not sure what he did to deserve that and so far he hasn't explained why.

Hoskins.

[crazycobbler]

He dropped Marshall after two MOM performances in his last two games, the Port Vale one from the sponsors and the Swindon one from the Chronic. Not sure what he did to deserve that and so far he hasn't explained why.

I agree Marshall didn’t deserve to be dropped. But because he drops one player who’s had a couple of good games and he all of a sudden has a reputation of dropping anyone who plays well? I see you’re conveniently ignoring the players I mentioned before.

[Another Pedj]

He dropped Marshall after two MOM performances in his last two games, the Port Vale one from the sponsors and the Swindon one from the Chronic. Not sure what he did to deserve that and so far he hasn't explained why.

Well systems. Marshall cannot defend to play as a wing back. Jones is constantly exposed.Hoskins did offer some protection. To accomodate Marshall as a winger it would have to be 442.Alternatively, as someone suggested swith him with Hoskins as they play now. It may be interesting.

[BackOfTheNet]

Not sure why people have to be so polarised in their views but it seems the trend now, not to see the other persons point of view even if ultimately you disagree.

Taking out the more extreme views I think the general consensus is this -

No one overly delighted with the appointment.
Overall result wise points tally is a significant improvement over previous two seasons.
Generally better togetherness of the players.
Football not entertaining
Same old cliches when things don't work out
Some strange tactics and substitutions
Play offs still easily within sight but automatic looking increasingly unlikely
Failure to at least reach playoffs would represent a poor season
Sacking him now would be ridiculous but renewing/extending contract if play offs not reached would not show much ambition to either succeed or entertain and gates would definitely suffer.

Spot on.

[EB Claret]

Having followed the comments on this thread over the weekend these are my thoughts.

I don’t believe KC is solely to blame for the defeat on Saturday. Yes, he may be telling them to drop deeper which of course invites pressure and for that he must be partially responsible. However, the players have got to look at themselves a little bit. We can sit here and talk about tactics and substitutions all we want but what about just some good old-fashioned fight? I didn’t see much of it in the second half and KC is not solely to blame for that. When Walsall pulled a goal back, how many of those players gave the impression that their mindset was ‘over my dead body are we throwing this away’. The momentum of the game had turned before any subs were made and from what I saw from the players, there was not enough fight to halt that momentum. We were so comfortable in the first half then second half all of a sudden people misplacing passes, defenders are getting out muscled, people aren’t holding up the ball properly. You can’t blame KC for that.

We are all quick to come on here and rave about how good a player is when he puts in a top performance, but whenever we lose a lead, its always KC’s fault. I do not buy into such nonsense. There are 11 men out on that field who all have a job to do. Far too many of that 11 did not carry out that job to a good enough standard in the second half. Walsall didn’t out-tactic us in the second half, they out-ran and out-fought us.

On the wider subject of KC’s position, KT has made some questionable decisions during his time as Chairman but sacking Curle with us just outside the playoffs with 13 games to go would probably be the worst of the lot. I’m confused as to why some people genuinely believe that someone could just swan in, pick up KC’s squad and immediately start picking up wins with ease. I have said from day one that the style of football isn’t always an easy watch. But having taken charge when we near rock-bottom 18 months ago to assembling what we all seem to agree is a pretty good squad, he deserves the chance to at least see the season out. If we tail off and end up 10th/11th then of course KT has a big decision to make, but at this moment in time it would be extremely harsh and incredibly foolish to sack him.

Sensible well balanced post.

[Manwork04]

Which Xmas?

What do you expect with our Chairman, fully expect to see him pull the trigger when we don’t make even the play offs.
This has to be the easiest season to get out of league two in a long time.

[crazycobbler]

What do you expect with our Chairman, fully expect to see him pull the trigger when we don’t make even the play offs.
This has to be the easiest season to get out of league two in a long time.

Just out of pure curiosity, how have you worked that one out?

[ClarenceInDefence]

Just out of pure curiosity, how have you worked that one out?

Which part are you wondering about? The part about the chairman pulling the trigger if we don't make the play-offs, the assumption that we won't make the play-offs, or that this is the easiest season to get out of the division in a long time? All 3 are nonsense - IMO of course.