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Derby away - replay

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GrangeParkCobbler
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« Reply #260 on: February 05, 2020, 10:53:40 am »

Can only echo what's been said above, a combination of us standing off a bit too much in that first half, and a different tactic of them slotting balls through the middle against our three centre backs, something they didn't even try and do in the first game.

Felt we could have pressed a bit more when they were playing it round at the back, a couple of times we induced errors, but we didn't press enough, gave them too much respect.  Rooney hit and miss for me, some fantastic passes but some equally bad ones including "that" corner!!

For us, defensively ok, Wharton looked a bit rusty, definitely caught out for the second, Cornell made some good saves but was at fault for the first, waiting for a foul that never came after mistiming his original jump. Goode a class above, as I've said in the POTS, possibly the only one of our players who wouldn't have looked out of place in their team.
Lines and Watson do what they do without looking spectacular, never got the ball to Adams enough although a couple of his crosses were poor when he did get the chance, took his goal well though. Looks very tired. Hoskins...I really don't get the love-in! Looked lost out there, as if not sure what position he was playing in, and who to mark, whether to push forward or drop back. Effort was there, good snap shot right at the end. Anderson put himself about well and good patient build up for the goal.
Oliver did ok when he was on, but picked up a knock ands wasn't as mobile after that, which brings me to Williams.....I can see why he's not Curles favourite. His effort and application is not at the level we need it to be. Gets too easily annoyed when things aren't going for him, and looks....lazy. He's probably not, but for a big man he doesn't put himself about enough. Subwise, nobody made much impact, Warburton looks way off the pace and Pollock barely got a touch.

I wasn't expecting too much last night, thought Derby would be more up for it, and at home they are a different proposition. We made it too easy for them at times, but got our goal from a decent bit of football, proving it doesn't always have to be route one/set piece. Reminded me of Burton where we had success when we played a bit of football.

Good night out, and the support from the fans was excellent, with a fair bit of noise despite the allocated seating being quite rigidly enforced. Once you'd got through the right turnstile and gone up the right flight of stairs you could not move about much anyway but despite that we created a good atmosphere and also got some back from the Derby fans next to us.
Footy Awaydays on Facebook is full of praise from fans of Derby and also other clubs about our numbers and our noise, so well done to all those who went.

Back to the bread and butter now, with the returning loanees, we have nothing to fear in League 2, lets play a bit of football and get out of this poxy division, bringing the prospect of more games and awaydays like last night nearer and make them more the norm than the exception.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 10:56:17 am by GrangeParkCobbler » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #261 on: February 05, 2020, 10:59:52 am »

Felt we didn't do ourselves justice in the first half. 2nd half, gave it a real go.

Not much to add that hasn't been said other than one main point...

...Derby really did their homework on us, this time. And executed a clear plan, which to their credit worked very well for them. By dicking around with it at the back, they constantly drew us out of our 'zones' before playing well placed balls (often down the lines) forward. In the first half, they must of got behind either Adams or Hoskins about a dozen times. If their quality had been better (ie, a prem team!) they'd have smashed us 10-0. The 2nd half changes made by Curle seemed to work for us and stemmed the tie, I thought Joe Martin played very well when he came on in particular.

Its been mentioned a few times on here, that a good side will damage us in this way and last night it happened. Fortunately for us, its unlikely to be repeated to such an extent in a league game, but its a good lesson to be learned. They really used the width of the pitch well and its a food for thought going forward, especially if we end up playing in the play off final!

It wouldn't surprise me if the Port Vale scouts report back that deficiency and we see them knocking the ball around in defence trying to draw us out on Saturday. We shall see!

Finally, we've really got an 'identify' on the field now. I'm really enjoying watching us at the minute. Yeah, its crude. And often one dimensional. But even on the latter point, we do seem to be mixing it up a bit more now. Quickly we are becoming a team that us fans can relate to, the connection is growing and for the first time in many a year, if we do go up its unlikely that our manager will be poached. Which could bring continuity and further improvement in league1. I live in hope!
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« Reply #262 on: February 05, 2020, 11:35:43 am »

I'd like to see that 'handball' when it was 0-0 again, a penalty there could have put a different complexion on the game.  I haven't seen it on any of the highlights and the media reports don't seem to mention it?
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« Reply #263 on: February 05, 2020, 12:07:02 pm »

Curle on Oliver...
Quote
"There was no problem," said Curle. "He wasn't winning his headers and he wasn't being a focal point for us.

"We've got a very, very competitive squad now and if players don't do what I need them to do, I will make a change.

"He was playing against Championship centre-backs and we weren't winning first contact so we needed to try and open the door another way.
He must have been watching a different game to me. I though Oliver won everything just no on there to run on to them and Williams looked off it all game.
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« Reply #264 on: February 05, 2020, 12:09:23 pm »

Curle on Oliver...He must have been watching a different game to me. I though Oliver won everything just no on there to run on to them and Williams looked off it all game.

Likewise, I thought that he was doing well winning all the headers, they were just not dropping to either Williams or any other in claret.  I thought that he had subbed him to save him for Saturday/Tuesday... Tongue
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« Reply #265 on: February 05, 2020, 12:19:36 pm »

Likewise, I thought that he was doing well winning all the headers, they were just not dropping to either Williams or any other in claret.  I thought that he had subbed him to save him for Saturday/Tuesday... Tongue

Likewise too!! He did get a knock in a challenge first half and wasn't moving as freely I thought.

This is not the first time KC has called Oliver out....yes he was up against Championship defenders, but I thought he won more than his fair share.

Saying he didn't really do what was asked of him, then putting Warburton on his place doesn't really add up!
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« Reply #266 on: February 05, 2020, 12:27:14 pm »

Likewise, I thought that he was doing well winning all the headers, they were just not dropping to either Williams or any other in claret.  I thought that he had subbed him to save him for Saturday/Tuesday... Tongue

Thought he won loads of headers but Williams didn't read them and was always headed in a different direction.
The reason for bringing on Warburton was 'to try to unlock Derby in a different way'. So there WAS a plan B, mysterious Curle indeed!
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« Reply #267 on: February 05, 2020, 12:40:40 pm »

Derby were much better last night than the first game and I don't think any of our players deserve criticism. Judging from the video Cornell was blocked and unable to get close enough to get good contact on the ball.
Radio Northampton has often been criticised on here but if you read the Derby match thread many of their fans switched from Radio Derby and listened to Radio Northampton instead. They were very complimentary of the coverage.
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« Reply #268 on: February 05, 2020, 13:18:06 pm »

If anyone deserved hooking at half time, it was Wharton, lucky he only gave one goal away, could easily have been 3, thought he was awful, but i suppose the self imposed 3 game suspension had something to do with it.
Also heard a few trying to blame Cornell for the first, when clearly it was Lines' fault, terrible header. Shame really, as we never quite managed to get close enough for long enough, in terms of the scoreline, to give them a fright.
If Hoskins' volley had found the net, at 3-1,it could have been an interesting finish.
Btw, thier goalkeeper was bloody awful, certainly wouldn't want to do a straight swap, for ours.
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« Reply #269 on: February 05, 2020, 13:53:55 pm »

Derby were much better last night than the first game and I don't think any of our players deserve criticism. Judging from the video Cornell was blocked and unable to get close enough to get good contact on the ball.
Radio Northampton has often been criticised on here but if you read the Derby match thread many of their fans switched from Radio Derby and listened to Radio Northampton instead. They were very complimentary
of the coverage.
I watched the highlights on the BBC web site. Incredibly biased, presume it was a Radio Derby commentator.
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« Reply #270 on: February 05, 2020, 16:07:56 pm »

My view of the game maybe slightly different from one or two accounts on this thread which incidentally are mostly accurate efforts

The team we played last night was very much their best team and clearly a far more effective unit than that which was selected for the first 'leg'.  I agree that we might have done more to pressurise them particularly 1st half. However saying it and enforcing it are two different things; even more so against a highly motivated 'classy/skillful' opposition.
So of course some of us tend to criticise KC tactics on the day; Oliver to me was a shadow of the player from the first fixture and was clearly 'knackered' after 40mins. His headers sometimes lacked direction and in any case we have no Morton or Marriott too feed off such headers etc. Perhaps he took knock but by half time he was almost anonymous.
In my opinion Derbys attacks seem to focus on wing play or down the lines clearly a tactic favoured by Mr Cocu hence the recall of Holmes and Lawrence Roll Eyes
On the day and as hard as it is for me to admit that Derby simply had too much quality to be combated effectively. We have a squad assembled for achieving success in L2; this squad would struggle in L1 and of course in the Championship. So we don't as yet have at our disposal sufficient quality to challenge effectively against quality opposition and as soon as some fans accept this the better the understanding of KC tactics and strategy will be. The calls for free flowing slick passing football are unwelcome simply because we haven't the personnel to be implement it successfully. In the meantime we do have at our disposal a professional mostly disciplined squad dedicated to hard work to achieve promotion. This same squad stuck to those principles yesterday and as such was appreciated and lauded by those there.
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« Reply #271 on: February 05, 2020, 16:39:34 pm »

Was always going to be a difficult night but I thought in the first half we showed them a bit too much respect and didn’t put enough pressure on the ball. Rooney isn’t the same player these days but he’s still more than good enough to split a League Two team open if given ample time and space. Duane Holmes also constantly caused us problems and I don’t think we ever really got to grips with how best to deal with him.

Having said that I thought second half we showed a lot of fight and did well to score a very good goal right after the break. Had we kept it at 2-1 for a while, who knows what might have happened. However even at 4-1 down we still fought hard and ultimately the lads should be very proud of this cup run. When the season starts most fans only care about promotion (and rightly so in my opinion) and a good cup run is seen as a bonus. We dispatched the non-league sides with ease (which we haven’t done on several occasions in the past) and the lads also gave us that amazing day out at Burton. Credit to KC and the players and my hope is that whilst we were knocked out, only losing 4-2 over 180 minutes against a side two divisions above will give the players lots of confidence and belief in what should be an exciting end to the season.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 16:41:26 pm by crazycobbler » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #272 on: February 05, 2020, 17:06:15 pm »

I too couldn’t believe he accused Oliver of not winning headers . I thought Oliver was our best player in the first half and won everything that was launched at him !
Williams was awful last night and won no second balls at all . Warburton did nothing when he came on .
Rooney ran the show despite a couple of misplaced passes but he must have had more passes than any other player on the pitch completed .
I am not sure route one football with no plan B works above division 2 . That’s why few teams adopt it to that degree any more .
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« Reply #273 on: February 05, 2020, 17:35:49 pm »

You could see the gulf. They knew where the ball was going before we did, often when it was us that had played it last but heyho, I don't think that Vale will.
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« Reply #274 on: February 06, 2020, 08:07:39 am »

I have to agree with previous comments that KC,s apparent criticism of Oliver is strange.
I thought he won virtually every header in the first 30 minutes.I dont think Williams won one all game.
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« Reply #275 on: February 06, 2020, 09:23:03 am »

I have to agree with previous comments that KC,s apparent criticism of Oliver is strange.
I thought he won virtually every header in the first 30 minutes.I dont think Williams won one all game.

Maybe Oliver is one of those players who needs a bit of a kick up the backside every know and then, I don't know but he has certainly been one of our better players recently.
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« Reply #276 on: February 06, 2020, 09:59:14 am »

Maybe Oliver is one of those players who needs a bit of a kick up the backside every know and then, I don't know but he has certainly been one of our better players recently.

A kick up the backside every now and then is a bit different to taking him off at half time, when the rest of us could see that was being effective at what he has been accused of not doing, in a game that it would have been 'nice' to win?  Weird...
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« Reply #277 on: February 06, 2020, 11:05:11 am »

I have to agree with previous comments that KC,s apparent criticism of Oliver is strange.
I thought he won virtually every header in the first 30 minutes.I dont think Williams won one all game.

would we think less of curle had he been honest and said "at 2-0 i thought the game was over so rested him for the league games"...............when 4500 fans have travelled to watch us!?
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« Reply #278 on: February 06, 2020, 12:23:51 pm »

would we think less of curle had he been honest and said "at 2-0 i thought the game was over so rested him for the league games"...............when 4500 fans have travelled to watch us!?


He could have just said that he wanted to try something different. He already defended his decision by saying we scored twice after the change was made. That's a fair point.

The part that people are taking issue with is that Curle singled out Oliver for not winning his headers, when in reality he did. For me, it was Williams who was not good enough at his job in the first half and was nowhere near the flick ons. In fact, he seemed a yard behind at all times through the match.
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« Reply #279 on: February 06, 2020, 12:40:43 pm »

He could have just said that he wanted to try something different. He already defended his decision by saying we scored twice after the change was made. That's a fair point.

The part that people are taking issue with is that Curle singled out Oliver for not winning his headers, when in reality he did. For me, it was Williams who was not good enough at his job in the first half and was nowhere near the flick ons. In fact, he seemed a yard behind at all times through the match.
Agree with your point about Williams. I'm sure it'll be Oliver & Moreton starting on Saturday. I'm also sure he took Oliver off so he didn't burn himself out for Saturday. Lets face we're having a good season & had a very good cup run. Bread & butter stuff starts again Saturday, bring it on!
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