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Next up: Stags visit the PTS on Saturday

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Author Topic: Next up: Stags visit the PTS on Saturday  (Read 8553 times)
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« Reply #140 on: March 09, 2020, 00:06:57 am »

Splitting airs. You know as well as me Rog, this one is on Sam. I'm not saying that I agree with the tactic in principle. But the mistake by Hoskins is what resulted in the goal. And you know as well as me, that there was time and options open to Sam.

I have no axe to grind with Hoskins, he's good at what he's good at. But where Curle IS wrong, is using him as a covering defender at set pieces.
I'm not defending Sam, everyone could see it was a mistake by him, what I've said all along is that it is VERY risky to only have one man back to cover one attacker and, against FGR, KC only had one defender against 2 attackers. Despite what Everbrite thinks he's seen, no other teams use this tactic for the very obvious risk to your team.
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« Reply #141 on: March 09, 2020, 00:13:00 am »

Yes, Arnold's kicking (let's call it distribution) was shocking yesterday...and no, it wasn't the wind!

Having said that, some good assured stops made and happy to see him get some first team action under his belt.
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Actually during the game on Sat I thought Arnie looked a bit nervous!                                                                                                                                                                                      
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« Reply #142 on: March 09, 2020, 00:16:38 am »

.......................... Despite what Everbrite thinks he's seen, no other teams use this tactic for the very obvious risk to your team.

Well some of them do - the simple fact is they do; not all the time; its a tactic all the same.
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« Reply #143 on: March 09, 2020, 00:34:24 am »

There is no way that Plymouth and Salford had only one man back if we had someone up whilst defending a corner. I was at all these games. I go to every game if I talk about it, I never say I'm going to a game and then don't turn up  Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink

You are a terrible loser Grin
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« Reply #144 on: March 09, 2020, 08:38:27 am »

The one v one at the back continually causes issues , despite what anyone protests .
On Saturday , Marshall was found wanting twice in that situation and they obviously scored from it .
Against Swindon we were constantly under pressure from it and they hit the bar from a direct break away .
We also now employ it when we take the pointless long throws that never work , which increases the chance of us getting caught .
It’s very basic , but then who is surprised that anything we do is anything other than basic !
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« Reply #145 on: March 09, 2020, 09:47:33 am »

The one v one at the back continually causes issues , despite what anyone protests .


Nobody is protesting. They are giving others the choice to cite examples of where it has cost us. Saturday can't be included, as there was two players back at the time when Sam received the ball. So that one should be excluded from any evidence of it going wrong.

I'm not saying I would do it. But has it really been the issue it's being made out to be. If so.. When?

I do agree with Roger, that it is a mistake waiting to happen, as is Hoskins  Grin But if Curle feels that the bulking up of the box for set pieces has yielded a return that outweighs the risk, then he is perfectly justified in using it.
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« Reply #146 on: March 09, 2020, 10:16:44 am »

Not a Hoskins hater, far from it but that was just a f*** up which he compounded by tugging at the player, conceding the penalty and getting himself sent off

Just a series of bad decisions really but s*** happens in the moment...

Fwiw I thought the offence was initiated outside the box but if a foul was in Hoskins head, he should have done it 40 yards out, not 20.

As for one man back... we could have had 4 back, it would still have happened
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« Reply #147 on: March 09, 2020, 15:32:55 pm »

He could have squared it to McCormack or hoofed it up to the big fellas in the box to continue the attack. He chose the latter and with wonderful hindsight it was the wrong choice. if he had made the pass and it came to nothing, the Hoskins detractors would have had something else to get on his back about.  If to bang it back in the box is the instruction from Curle, then so be it. The real mess up was either not fouling the attacker at all, and if that decision then lead to a goal there would have been comprehenive derision, or Sam could or should have tugged him back well outside the box.. Would still have been a red, but may not have led to a goal. Spur of the moment decisions!
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« Reply #148 on: March 09, 2020, 16:07:31 pm »

Not a Hoskins hater, far from it but that was just a **** up which he compounded by tugging at the player, conceding the penalty and getting himself sent off

Just a series of bad decisions really but **** happens in the moment...

Fwiw I thought the offence was initiated outside the box but if a foul was in Hoskins head, he should have done it 40 yards out, not 20.

As for one man back... we could have had 4 back, it would still have happened


Bit subjective - suggest 'may have happened'...> if anybody should be back it could be McCormack he can pass and tackle. Not exactly slow either.
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« Reply #149 on: March 09, 2020, 17:16:38 pm »

He could have squared it to McCormack or hoofed it up to the big fellas in the box to continue the attack. He chose the latter and with wonderful hindsight it was the wrong choice. if he had made the pass and it came to nothing, the Hoskins detractors would have had something else to get on his back about.  If to bang it back in the box is the instruction from Curle, then so be it. The real mess up was either not fouling the attacker at all, and if that decision then lead to a goal there would have been comprehenive derision, or Sam could or should have tugged him back well outside the box.. Would still have been a red, but may not have led to a goal. Spur of the moment decisions!
Yeah, but Curle has watched Sammy for a while now. If he struggles to beat the first man on crosses because he cant create space for himself (which he does), did it not occur to him that this might happen if the instruction from him is to launch it back?
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« Reply #150 on: March 09, 2020, 17:17:53 pm »

Nobody is protesting. They are giving others the choice to cite examples of where it has cost us. Saturday can't be included, as there was two players back at the time when Sam received the ball. So that one should be excluded from any evidence of it going wrong.

I'm not saying I would do it. But has it really been the issue it's being made out to be. If so.. When?

I do agree with Roger, that it is a mistake waiting to happen, as is Hoskins  Grin But if Curle feels that the bulking up of the box for set pieces has yielded a return that outweighs the risk, then he is perfectly justified in using it.
That is incorrect .
MCCormack was not back at the time of the corner - and I know because he was stood right in front of where I was sitting .
He tracked back when the corner broke down .
If you had a player back to support Hoskins , he drops off behind him to cover .
This is essentially the problem , the way we defend means there is no room for error .
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« Reply #151 on: March 09, 2020, 17:36:15 pm »

That is incorrect .
MCCormack was not back at the time of the corner - and I know because he was stood right in front of where I was sitting .
He tracked back when the corner broke down .
If you had a player back to support Hoskins , he drops off behind him to cover .
This is essentially the problem , the way we defend means there is no room for error .
100% correct and echo's what I've said.
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« Reply #152 on: March 09, 2020, 17:37:27 pm »

The manager has gambled for the majority of the season on how he wants to play attacking corners and, because of one acknowledged mistake by a player (not the manager) in the 37th game, people are creating and enlarging an issue and giving it all 'I told you so' when it isn't really there.
We were all aware of a/the risk but it was a risk he was prepared to take in order to provide more of an attacking threat at set pieces.
You're all sounding like the Harry Enfield "You didn't want to do it like that" character whilst using the greatest tool in history, hindsight.
It's as if you were waiting for it to fail so that you could jump all over him, it's a shame that you had to wait so long.  Grin
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« Reply #153 on: March 09, 2020, 18:37:40 pm »

I remember when Atkins was villified for not leaving someone up top whilst defending a corner. Same sort of thing really. The manager decides and the manager takes the flak when it don't work out so let's allow Curley chops to take the flak, it is only fair.
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« Reply #154 on: March 09, 2020, 19:04:28 pm »

Yeah, but Curle has watched Sammy for a while now. If he struggles to beat the first man on crosses because he cant create space for himself (which he does), did it not occur to him that this might happen if the instruction from him is to launch it back?


Having watched/seen Hoskins play fair amount this season; I am at a loss to understand the familiar criticism of Hoskins which more often or not is based on hindsight. I order to avoid unnecessary argument can you please give specific instances of Hoskins failing to make space for himself; I can name at least 3 occasions but can you?
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« Reply #155 on: March 09, 2020, 19:49:32 pm »

Some will be disappointed  Roll Eyes to hear that Sam Hoskins will serve a one match ban and will a available for next Tuesdays home game with Carlisle. When he will score the winning goal  Wink
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« Reply #156 on: March 09, 2020, 20:20:29 pm »

He will probably get the first 2 as well.
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« Reply #157 on: March 09, 2020, 22:22:19 pm »

100% correct and echo's what I've said.

Wow!
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« Reply #158 on: March 09, 2020, 23:09:20 pm »

Having watched/seen Hoskins play fair amount this season; I am at a loss to understand the familiar criticism of Hoskins which more often or not is based on hindsight. I order to avoid unnecessary argument can you please give specific instances of Hoskins failing to make space for himself; I can name at least 3 occasions but can you?
No I can't.
Fcuk me Evers, when he plays out wide have you not noticed the number of balls that fail to get past the fullback because he cannot make twelve inches of space for himself before crossing the ball? Ditto with the number of shots from him that never teach the goal.
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« Reply #159 on: March 10, 2020, 00:12:50 am »

No I can't.
Fcuk me Evers, when he plays out wide have you not noticed the number of balls that fail to get past the fullback because he cannot make twelve inches of space for himself before crossing the ball? Ditto with the number of shots from him that never teach the goal.

Thanks for reply.
In particularly I found Hoskins performances at the following games often infuriating  :
Macclesfield(h), Crawley(h),Sc***horpe(a), Stevenage(h),Chelts(a), Salford(a), Port Vale (h), Derby(h & a). In some of these games overall he defended well and scored but when he had the opportunity to cross he over hit or simply fluffed it. Of course if you have a mindset on Hoskins (it appears you may have) then it will influence your opinion. I cannot recall Hoskins endeavouring to make room for a cross
as some of his centres were sometimes blocked; churlish not to think that the defender was doing his job Roll Eyes He is erratic as is our overall team performances show, 0-3 one week followed by a loss the next! However on average he is a worthy member of the squad and is currently our leading scorer. He also defends well as he did against Exeter (h) and apparently Grimsby(a). His best crosses always seem to come with a short dash down the wing; interlaced with a few over hits! On the basis of goals scored and his defensive duties when playing wing back I like most fair minded supporters give him the benefit of doubt and side with the opinion of several Managers. An infuriating player who scores some memorable goals and misses some sitters too.
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